which you failed to substantiate when repeatedly asked to do so. That was, as I say, my assessment – others clearly seem to agree.

I’ve explained my views a lot this topic, in fact it is my views that some have strongly disagreed with rather than failure to substantiate. There’s plenty of evidence of this.

I note that you haven’t argued about the message, just the messenger.

Is likening me to Philu another way of trying to build crowd support for discrediting? I could accuse you of morphing into Redbaiter but that would be as innaccurate and irrelevant to the issue.

Wow, with your 7:18am response to me, I think you’ve just morphed into Philu. I haven’t contributed to this debate, and was simply offering my views, as a passive bystander. Your response was, frankly, over-the-top and shows that you are particularly sensitive on this subject.

Nostradamus, do you think all bloggers who take comments and “summarise” or “paraphrase” or “report” them at another blog are rude and intellectually dishonest? Becasue it’s standard blog practice. And journalists have been doing it since newspapers were invented.

That isn’t what I said.

You seem to have missed the important qualification in what I said: “(having stirred up a hornet’s nest, for the apparent purpose of provoking those comments, but without having offered a substantiated argument of your own)“.

The assessment I made yesterday, having read through the thread, was that you’d come charging onto a Kiwiblog thread for two days in a row, making sweeping assertions, which you failed to substantiate when repeatedly asked to do so. That was, as I say, my assessment – others clearly seem to agree.

I’ve been very open and honest. I have been commenting across blogs for a long time. I get criticised for the frequency I provide links showing what I do and where I do it. You and others knew where I was commenting because you followed the links you grizzle about. To act surprised now and saying “look what he’s doing!” seems a bit disingenuous.

Again, that isn’t what I said.

Unlike you, apparently, I don’t trawl across multiple blogs. I have a busy life and Kiwiblog is pretty much the only one I read. I didn’t know where you were commenting, except for Graham’s link. Others may not have known either, except for Graham’s link.

The issue is that you presumed to “summarise” and “paraphrase” what others have said, as somehow supporting an argument you’ve yet to substantiate, all apparently for the purpose of getting kudos at another blog. That, in my view, is not good blog ettiquette. Your behaviour was different from, say, posting a link to specific comments at Kiwiblog that, in your view, backed up your position. Instead, you purported to “summarise” and “paraphrase” them. I suspect the distinction is lost on you. But considering that you bang on about blog ettiquette all the time, I would have expected a bit more intellectual honesty from you.

Again, why should this [adopting a different commenting style at The Daily Blog] be a surprise? I’m sure your style would be “slightly different” if you commented at The Daily Blog or The Standard or Whale Oil. Your comment at 8.24pm is more than “slightly diffferent” in style to other comments you’ve made here.

I don’t comment at other blogs. But I’m sure my commenting style would be the same – expressing my views, and not playing to the local crowd. My 8:24pm comment was, I believe, balanced and not over-the-top. So, no, not more than slightly different in style to other comments I’ve made here. I’ll see if anyone else agrees with your assessment on that.

<blockquote
I find it interesting to see who has attacked me over this, who has reacted and how they have reacted. Few have openly questioned the nature of comments directed at me that have included extreme abuse and lies – but that’s not surprising, who would want to volunteer to be a target like I have been?.

Nostradamus, I have been “summarised” and “paraphrased” on this issue here with blatant misrepresentations and intellectual dishonesty – either through ignorance of what I have actually said or deliberately lying in order to attack and discredit me. But that obviously isn’t something you are bothered about.

I pushed boundaries on this and I knew it would make some people uncomfortable. That was my intention. I think our violence and rape cultures have been proven by the nature of some of the reactions. Some people obviously don’t it being pointed out that they are examples of something they are trying to deny. Too bad. I know I won’t change some of your opinions but I hope I have provoked some thinking amongst the more open minded.

Again, you’ve completely missed the point. As I said, I am not getting involved in the substance of the debate. Others commenting on your views have, as far as I know, expressed them here and not run off to other blogs to do so. So all this is a bit of a smokescreen. You do seem to be holding yourself up as a shining beacon of… virtue? Fine, but at least substantiate your argument, and stop trying to frame others’ arguments in a way that serves your own agenda on other blogs.

One thing I haven’t been accused of on this is that old favourite diss, sitting on the fence.

That’s not the issue here.

Pete, I haven’t agreed with everything you’ve said at Kiwiblog, but at least we’ve been able to discuss issues in a rational way. On this issue, for some reason, you’ve completely morphed into Philu. The fact that you see everyone who points this out as somehow demonstrating the truth of your “arguments” (whatever they are) doesn’t paint you in a good light.

Judge me if you will, PG, for allegedly not speaking out. But I promise I will never bite my lip if a friend tells me he beat up his girlfriend.

My comment no more miminised rape than his did murder. Yet you want only one of us to be held accountable for it. Is that not hypocrisy?

Maybe it was a different era, and it was once acceptable to just shrug your shoulders. It’s not now.

That’s extremely naive or ignorant. It now seems common for mates to kick victims in the head as well as the kinghitter. And more often the perps and mates are female. It’s widely acknowledged that there is still a terrible culture of violence in New Zealand.

I’ve seen violence advocated as a solution frequently on Kiwiblog. Maybe you haven’t noticed that at all Cato, because I haven’t noticed you speaking against it. There was some quite violent language on a thread you were participating in a couple of days ago. Maybe you only see wrong in select targets.

Was that an acceptable comparison Pete? It was made in your name.

NOBODY IS MAKING EXCUSES FOR ANYONE!!!!!!!!

In this wicked world there are things you can do to reduce your chances of being a victim of crime – Duh

I have maintained the whole time that the only way men should behave is by only initiating sex when they are in a trusted, committed relationship. If they do that, they can (usually) be sure not to have any issues with consent. I just fail to see how that comment is ‘rape enabling’.

As for questions of ‘perfection’ I hardly think it takes moral perfection to express disapproval of wife beating. I would suspect that, for most men – perfect or not – it would just seem like the decent and obvious thing to do – especially if its not a hypothetical comment like your team mate.

Maybe it was a different era, and it was once acceptable to just shrug your shoulders. It’s not now. I am glad you have come around but I’m just not sure you deserve that much praise for it.

However saying you are going to shut off and then continuing to criticise is not being perfect. I haven’t paid much attention to what you say SPC said, you have misinterpreted a number of things I have said quite badly so i didn’t put much credibility on what you claimed.

I note you have yet to tick Kea and Andre etc off for their rape minimisation, you seem to be very selective about who you try to hold to account.

Andre is still totally blind to blaming victims and making excuses for perpetrators of rape and theft.

Clearly that encounter affected you in some way, however, and I’m not surprised you feel the need to atone for your prior act of cowardliness. All I ask is that in future you lead with that self-criticism rather than come out swinging at people you don’t know.

I’m going to shut off from this topic because we are clearly at an impasse.

I note that you have yet to tick SPC off for his own rape minimisation – though it’s certainly worse than anything I have ever said.

But I’ll try and explain something.

Two years ago I was at Stopping Violence (an organisation that works at the coal face/bottom of the cliff) talking about how to address the culture of violence that exists in New Zealand.

I said that while I wasn’t a part of the problem because I wasn’t violent I wanted to help. I was quietly but firmly told that if I hadn’t done anything about it I was a part of the problem, part of the culture. I felt unfairly accused and fairly pissed off. But I went away and thought about it.

I thought back through my life and could remember things. A typical example – I was at rugby training one night and a teammate said something like “the missus gave me some lip last night so I sorted her out, she’ll be wearing sunnies for a few days”. And I winced and remained silent. And his missus likely went on being sorted out – until she left him a few years later. At least she survived, although no doubt mentally scarred, if not physically.

And my silence contributed, in a small way. Perhaps if I had had the guts to speak up[ and say “fuck that, it’s not on, that’s a crap way to deal with things” he (and others) may have started to learn that giving the bash wasn’t what everyone did, and eventually they might come to realise it was a bastard of a thing to do, caused problems and solved nothing.

And that may have saved his missus some major grief, and him, and his marriage, and his kids may have grown up without believing violence was a normal part of family life.

“rereading this thread I can’t find any examples of anyone blaming rape on drunk females.”
It was implied in the GD thread on Thursday.

Hah – Pete George that is not “blaming rape on drunk females “that is pointing out a reality of life”.

If you wear an expensive wrist watch and get pissed in the French Quarter of New Orleans you are likely to be releived of it – is pointing this sad fact of life out also offensive?

You are really are a dork.