Norman on Carter

March 22nd, 2013 at 6:41 am by David Farrar

Stuff reports:

Greens co-leader has written an open letter to new urging him to return to the rulings set down by his predecessor Lockwood Smith or risk increasing disorder in the House.

Smith instituted a new regime that ditched the old requirement for ministers to merely ”address” a question in favour of a tougher requirement to answer a direct question where possible.

But opposition MPs have been frustrated at what they see as Carter’s shift away from that.

Norman is due to meet Carter soon to discuss the letter.

In it Norman said he felt compelled to write after sitting through ”another chaotic question time”.

He said Smith’s rules in summary were that “a straight question will get a straight answer” and that delivered a more orderly and effective question time.

I thought the straight question gets a straight answer rule was a very good one, so in that regard I agree with Norman.

What I’m not so sure about is whether that rule is or is not still being applied. I simply have not watched enough question time to judge. I would make the point that there remains a difference between a primary question and a supplementary. A straight primary question should get a straight answer. A supplementary question which is seeking very specific data may often be unable to be answered unless it was very tightly connected to the primary.

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28 Responses to “Norman on Carter”

  1. sparky (235 comments) says:

    Norman is a straight out whinger, who can’t get his own way. I watch Question time when ever Parliament are sitting. David Carter is Very Good at the job, and keeps the circus under control. If you take away the control, what have you got. I liked Lockwood, but he was too dam soft, and let the left get away with far too much. Good on David Carter for being his own person and not taking on someone else’s style. A good start for whingey Norman and his colleagues, would be to ask a decent question.

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  2. Daigotsu (459 comments) says:

    Dear Wussell

    The fact that you are a useless shit-eating retard is not David Carter’s fault, it’s your fault*. Regards

    YOUR BOSS
    (that is, a voter)

    *And, to be fair, the fault of the socialist education system

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  3. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Lockwoods rule is not being applied. The situation looks very frustrating for the opposition but more concerning for National voters , Carter is making the whole process look more unfair and biased. Not a wise move.

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  4. sparky (235 comments) says:

    David Carter is not following Lockwood Smith, and that is a good thing. Lockwood was too dam soft, on the opposition. Good on David Carter, for being his own person. He is doing a very good job. There is nothing unfair, or biased about Carter’s style. He is keeping the circus under control. and good on him.

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  5. Nick K (1,244 comments) says:

    As soon as I saw this was from Red Russell, my immediate thought was “No one believes Red Russell on anything”.

    So I just dismiss this as a pile of dog turd.

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  6. All_on_Red (1,584 comments) says:

    Russell is a blatant liar. I saw him say the other day say”97% of all scientists believe in etc” now that was a survey which has been totally discreditated and yet he still trots it out. Their questions are lame- no wonder they get batted back.
    When is Norman going to be honest with the voters?

    Joana- I doubt National voters even see Q time. They will all be at work. And what about the shambling stumbling piece of mumbling that is Winston Peters? Theres definitely something wrong with him. He can hardly speak properly.

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  7. thedavincimode (6,800 comments) says:

    Gimmee back my fwag. :cry:

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  8. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    I have to agree – I have the deepest respect for Lockwood Smith – we need politicians like him to provide example and to mentor the ‘newbies’. He was a great ‘speaker’ and managed the house, which at times resembles a kindergarten playground, with apparent ease (plus a few twitching smiles). Norman is right – Carter needs to follow from Smiths example.

    It has always been a great source of amusement to me when meeting our MP’s at various events that we are meant to afford them a greater degree of respect, when just the day before we have seen them acting like ‘naughty school girls’ – behaviour of which would result in being sent to the naughty spot – if they were a child.

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  9. peterwn (3,275 comments) says:

    The Green Party did not seem too fussed with Labour’s Speaker, when National members could not get their questions properly answered. Russell was not in Parliament then otherwise he would be in a spot of bother now.

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  10. BeaB (2,125 comments) says:

    David Carter is doing a very good job in my opinion. Lockwood tended to paraphrase at tedious length Minister’s answers where Carter rules it acceptable or not and if unacceptable allows the question to be put again.

    He has Mallard (a tired old point of order addict and speaker wannabe) and Peters (who isn’t looking well) well under control.

    I agree with his stance that of the question has political ‘xtras’ so can the answer. Key, Brownlee, Joyce, Ryall, Tolley are all star performers.

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  11. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Q time is repeated at night so surely some Nat voters are interested enough to watch then.. The oldies watching in the day time and others creative enough and wealthy enough not to be tied to 9 till 5 are a significant portion of the voters. Carter is not doing his party any favours. Yes Winston probably isn’t as well as he used to be but then we have a whole host of people in parliament who went in suits them , have severe memory loss issues.

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  12. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    @sparky 6:48 am

    I watch Question time when ever Parliament are sitting. David Carter is Very Good at the job, and keeps the circus under control.

    Do you write the Tui ads, sparky? Do you think letting Steven Joyce get away with this sort of shit and not answer the question at all is “very good at the job”?

    http://inthehouse.co.nz/node/17620

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  13. Graeme Edgeler (3,289 comments) says:

    A straight primary question should get a straight answer. A supplementary question which is seeking very specific data may often be unable to be answered unless it was very tightly connected to the primary.

    And an answer which says “I don’t know”, or “I don’t have that information to hand, but will be able to forward it to the member” is a straight answer.

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  14. thedavincimode (6,800 comments) says:

    toad

    You are right. But then Joyce was quite right in acccusing Wussell of blatant scare-mongering. He just didn’t do a very good job of snotting the blatantly bullshitting little cunt. You really have to question the motives and standards of someone who is prepared to run the line that Wussell was. It’s no better than the type of bullshit that other arsehole Peters runs. The only difference is that nowadays nobody can understand what Peters is saying or what he’s getting at; including Peters.

    [DPF: 20 demerits]

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  15. thedavincimode (6,800 comments) says:

    Heh

    The truth is no defence! :lol:

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  16. PTM (47 comments) says:

    Question Time is such a hoot. Winston, Labour and the greens have used almost every strategy in the book to get under David Carter’s skin and to date, with little success.
    Lockwood Smith had his own style, as do they all. A fairer benchmark would be Margaret Wilson who made watching question time dangerous to the health of anyone with even mild levels of hypertension.

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  17. flipper (4,083 comments) says:

    For anyone with experience of Parliamentary procedure dating back more than 10 years, Carter is a breath of fresh air. For those with more experience he is exception.

    He does not engage in Smith’s he self-aggrandising Smith antics (including calling himself “Dr The Rt. Hon Lockwood Smith” when he nothing more than a Phud in animal husbandry, albeit a qualification which, from time to time, seemed eminently appropriate in dealing with the likes of the Duck), and he brings a sort of avuncular, farmer-like air to his rulings which yesterday were better, and firmer, than three or more weeks ago.

    I have heard it said that Carter is a dummy, and nothing more than an uneducated farmer. A farmer Carter may be, but he is no dummy and, lest there be any misunderstanding, David Carter’s net wealth may well exceed that of J.Key and S.Joyce by quite a margin – all made by being a “dumb” dairy (mostly) farmer.

    Of all speakers since Roy Jack, none was worse that the whining, screeching bitch-like Wilson.

    The reality is that Smith’s approach was an open invitation to any querulous MP to complain about answers. He permitted political statements in questions, but denied a political response.

    What has changed in the past 15 years is the introduction of the curse of real democracy – the MMP system and the list leeches, now described as MPs.

    To my mind Peter Tapsell would rate 10.
    Those before him no more than 5 or 6.
    Those since no more than 2 (Wilson) to 7(Smith).

    Carter ? Eight (8) at the moment, but time will tell.
    But time will not do Mugabe wussell red melon any favours.

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  18. Paulus (2,632 comments) says:

    Norman does not know how to be honest – it is in his communist upbringing in Australia that he must have been bitten by a rabid dingo.

    He is not liking being regularly upstaged by the Helen Winkelman dressed, tubby, female, part Maori, in his own party.

    Winston is currently the worse “point of order practicioner – he does not realise that in his own grandissement he is taking up valuably time letting the Government get away with whatever they want in Question time.

    He is desperate for the media to listen to acknowledge him irrespective of the crap he talks.

    Queen (debatable) Wilson is still the worse Speaker in current history.

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  19. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    Joyce is useless.

    I thought he was regarded as one of the Nat’s best Ministers.

    And Carter is useless too. Opening the door for like arrogant treatment of the Nats the day they arrive in opposition.

    If Joyce can’t deal with Russell Norman any better than he did in that video then he is useless.

    In fact the Nats are useless. This is what happens when you reject the ideological basis of your party and take on the ideas and objectives of the left.

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  20. Liberty (267 comments) says:

    Norman and the coalition of loses should harden up.
    Try asking a constructive question for a change.
    For example
    “ Does the Minister stand by all his Statements “
    Is a cop out.
    I’m surprised Carter lets them away with it.
    It also appears one of the coalition of loses minions.
    Appears a little inebriated at times.
    Carter is showing a great deal of tolerance.

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  21. BeaB (2,125 comments) says:

    Gosh we have a lot of useless people in parliament. You are useless if you were a woodwork teacher, a farmer, a businessman, any kind of teacher, a lawyer, a National Minister…

    I wonder where MP’s should be found – among the unemployed?

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  22. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    Russell was out-manouvered. Simple as that.

    And towards the end, it became very clear that he was more interested in scare-mongering than in the interests of depositors (which, given he’s in favour of printing money, is hardly suprising!).

    He should have realised that on this topic, he had to question in such a way as to gain answers which would not be seen as destabilising the banking system. He didn’t do that.

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  23. big bruv (13,929 comments) says:

    I watched that clip. Norman comes across (as he always does) as a spoilt brat who is having a tantrum because he can’t get his own way.

    The thing that makes me laugh about all this is that the dirty stinking Greens are the last bastards who really care about free speech and holding people to account. They are liars, there is nothing they will not do, no lie they will not repeat to get them into the seats of power.

    I want useless fucking media to start looking into the Greens, stop giving them a free ride and expose them for the liars and communist scum that they really are.

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  24. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    “I watched that clip. Norman comes across (as he always does) as a spoilt brat who is having a tantrum because he can’t get his own way.”

    Do you even know what he is asking about?

    He is asking under the OBR scheme proposed by National, would NZ account holders ever have to forfeit money if that scheme was ever implemented.

    What the fuck is so bad about asking that question.

    Sure the Greens and Norman are communist scum, but they represent NZers who voted for them in parliament and those citizens deserve to have their questions asked and answered JUST AS WE ALL DO.

    Joyce could have easily responded-

    “In the remote chance that the OBR scheme is implemented, there is a chance that some account holders may lose a small amount of their deposits but not as much as if it was not implemented. I hope the member is cognisance of the damage a run on our banking system would do to our economy, and how every time he asks an alarmist question like this, such an event becomes more likely. He says he is concerned with the deposits of NZers but is casually putting them at risk by partisan scare mongering to point score.”

    The partisan blindness of far left National supporters is appalling.

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  25. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    Red, as I saw his answers, that’s pretty much what he did say. He made it clear that depositors would have access to some of their money, as opposed to the less desirable outcome that they had access to none.

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  26. Skttrbrain (26 comments) says:

    It all makes sense now, Russel is at fault here because he’s:
    – a straight-out whinger
    – a useless sh*t-eating retard, and a socialist
    – unbelievable (his political viewpoint is like a dog turd)
    – a blatant liar (because a differing perspective within the political spectrum is about truth and untruth presumably)
    – for some reason, unable to pronounce his ‘r’s correctly (substituting a ‘w’), and because of a personal protest re: Tibet/China and his view of human rights
    – a blatantly bullsh*tting little c*nt (The Truth! (?))
    – Mugabe-ish and “wed”
    – upstaged by his co-leader (disparaging comments of her totally justified, obvs)
    – a loser and needs to harden up
    – a spoilt brat having a tantrum, a liar and a communist scum.

    That’s a great summary of the Kiwiblog commentor perspective on whether or not Norman was justified in raising an issue to question whether or not the new Speaker is allowing the Opposition to use question time to “test the performance of individual Ministers and the Government as a whole”.

    It’s weird agreeing with Redbaiter, but this comment thread really does show a lack of perspective on what Norman’s raising – that it should be of significance to depositors, and that partisan politics really shouldn’t dissuade an answer from being made to the question in this instance (and others prior since Carter started in the new role). Particularly as a voter I’m no clearer on whether or not there was ever a reasoned assessment (for example) on whether the overseas banks, who are making significant profits, should hold depositor insurance like they do in other OECD countries, or whether that was dismissed out of hand on the assumption that any costs associated with that would be passed on the bank customers (despite said profits).

    Maybe take a breath and ask whether it serves democracy and all perspectives that an Opposition member feels they cannot fulfill their responsibility of holding the government to account due to a perception that his questions aren’t being addressed.

    DPF, rather than post more in this series up to allow the frothing (as above) have a look at the content of QT online, and at least make an assessment on whether or not you believe question time is allowing questions to be addressed. You may be surprised.

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  27. thedavincimode (6,800 comments) says:

    Skttrbrain

    I agree with that 6th one.

    what Norman’s raising

    Then why didn’t he just raise it? Why the lie?

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  28. rg (214 comments) says:

    Carter is no Smith,, that is for sure and question time is more chaoric but he still requires answers. norman;s problem is that he loads a question with all sorts of bullshit and when the Minister fires back an answer and a quip about printing money he gets upset.

    Norman is upset that what ever attacks he putsb up from now on can just be batted away with a comment on money printing. They are falling in the polls even. I think the honeymoon might soon be over for the media darlings.

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