Probably cops

March 26th, 2013 at 3:00 pm by David Farrar

Stuff reports:

A public servant has appeared in court after allegedly dragging his partner along the floor by the hair, before beating her.

The man is one of two senior Waikato public servants due in court this week charged with assault.

The cases are unconnected, with the second defendant accused of having assaulted two people – one allegedly a family member.

Extensive suppression orders prevent naming or giving details of the occupations of either of the men, who are from different Waikato towns.

I have zero information on either case, or the identity of the two men.

But the codewords used by the media are easy to decipher.

If you are a “senior public servant” and also live in a town, well 99% of the time you must be a police officer. You don’t see a lot of Ministry of Health offices in Huntly or the like!

Note again i have no actual information on the cases, and am just making an educated guess. As I don’t know the identity or occupations of either man, I can’t be breaching a suppression order.

The point I am making is that the media have effectively pointed to the occupations by using a combination of generic role and location that narrows it down.

It’s like the time I was the off the record source for a story for a newspaper in the early 1990s and they referred to me as a “Senior Young National” in Wellington. I somewhat irately pointed out to the reporter that they might as well have printed my name, date of birth and photo as the description was so obviously me!

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40 Responses to “Probably cops”

  1. kowtow (8,776 comments) says:

    In only very few cases should accused get name suppression ,generally to protect the identity of the victim in sexual cases.

    The way it’s done in NZ goes against the core of our justice system ie that it be open and seen to be open.

    This is wrong.

    Even publicly speculating becomes wrong,but that’s what you get when you introduce un necessary secrecy into the legal process.

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  2. metcalph (1,435 comments) says:

    It’s not the first time this has happened. When Clint Rickards was committed for trial, his name and occupation were suppressed but a news report briefly mentioned that a Senior Public Servant in the Waikato had been committed for trial.

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  3. RRM (10,026 comments) says:

    A public servant has appeared in court after allegedly dragging his partner along the floor by the hair, before beating her.

    ‘Safer communities together’

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  4. Dave Guerin (33 comments) says:

    Turned out to be a police prosecutor http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8474077/Police-prosecutor-charged-with-assaulting-woman-child

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  5. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    What a sack of shit. I know of another one who punched a man in the face after he was blinded by pepper spray. The cop (Peter Carmody) said that he did it to distract him.

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  6. dime (10,120 comments) says:

    10,000 cops? there has to be the occasional ahole in there.

    good food for our cop hating public though.

    “I know of another one who punched a man in the face after he was blinded by pepper spray” – good. maybe next time he will do as the law enforcement officer tells him :)

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  7. Weihana (4,606 comments) says:

    kowtow (3,929) Says:
    March 26th, 2013 at 3:14 pm

    In only very few cases should accused get name suppression ,generally to protect the identity of the victim in sexual cases.

    The way it’s done in NZ goes against the core of our justice system ie that it be open and seen to be open.

    This is wrong.

    Even publicly speculating becomes wrong,but that’s what you get when you introduce un necessary secrecy into the legal process.

    And how has revelation of this man’s name made the process more open? In truth we are relying on media reports which generally self-filter for the most sensationalist facts whilst minimizing anything that is mundane.

    Surely it is also a core aspect of our justice system that people be presumed innocent until proven guilty. Publication of one’s name generally constitutes a punishment in and of itself that can have serious repercussions for those named… all before a verdict is even reached.

    Arguably restricting publication until the process is completed permits open justice whilst also providing some protection from trial by media.

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  8. tvb (4,516 comments) says:

    The term public servant is so overused in suppression cases they may as well publish the occupation as a police officer.

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  9. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    maybe next time he will do as the law enforcement officer tells him

    Carmody wasn’t acting as law enforcement officer. The man was within his rights when he was assaulted.

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  10. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,922 comments) says:

    “…dragging his partner along the floor by the hair, before beating her…..”

    Just the normal after-dinner intellectual intercourse for Huntly, one presumes.

    Or could it possibly just be a little fore-play, Your Honour?

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  11. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    Use of the term “public servant” seems odd. Obviously it’s more newsworthy when a public servant is alleged to have committed a crime. Maybe only those in the private sector are permitted to commit crimes? :)

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  12. cha (4,081 comments) says:

    10,000 cops? there has to be the occasional ahole in there.

    Seems to be something about police prosecutors though.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/248371/police-prosecutor-pleads-guilty-drug-charges

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/archive/national-news/703326/Police-prosecutor-sentenced-for-wife-assault

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/5592034/Graham-Capill-out-on-parole

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  13. Longknives (4,884 comments) says:

    Turns out this person WASN’T a cop.
    (A Police Prosecutor is a lawyer- They will not at all like you calling them a “Cop”)
    Though I doubt we will see any form of apology from all the Police-bashers who jumped on the bandwagon…

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  14. Anodos (119 comments) says:

    I know why this type of behaviour is a problem but I am not sure why “Stuff” thinks it is when a few days ago they were promoting a guy who drags women around by the hair, and worse, for a living….http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/03/guest-post-stuff-it-is-not-ok/

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  15. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    I’m utterly shattered to discover that a lawyer can be an arsehole! :)

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  16. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    A Police Prosecutor is a lawyer

    No they are not. Mostly they are uniformed police officers.

    More complex matters are referred to the private law firm who has the contract at the time. They are not police employees. They are private lawyers and are not public servants.

    But don’t let facts stop you grovelling to authority unquestioningly.

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  17. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    Turns out this person WASN’T a cop.

    Well, if you want to get pedantic about it, no police sergeant is a cop either.

    A Police Prosecutor is a lawyer

    That’s irrelevant. It’s like saying that a police dog handler isn’t a cop.

    Cop uniform, cop salary = cop.

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  18. Nostalgia-NZ (5,281 comments) says:

    Johnboy (10,167) Says:
    March 26th, 2013 at 8:03 pm
    I’m utterly shattered to discover that a lawyer can be an arsehole!

    You’ll get over it, don’t worry about having made no progress in the last 40 years.

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  19. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Longknives (2,299) Says:
    March 26th, 2013 at 6:54 pm
    Turns out this person WASN’T a cop.
    (A Police Prosecutor is a lawyer- They will not at all like you calling them a “Cop”)
    Though I doubt we will see any form of apology from all the Police-bashers who jumped on the bandwagon…

    Longknives owes an appology. He was a little too quick to grovel to authority like a pathetic sycophant.

    Sergeant Dougal Matheson said the defendant’s daughter, aged 11, and son, 12, found some of her cannabis and took it to school to share with friends, as well as trying to sell some.

    Judge Harding said the defendant, who had four previous cannabis convictions, needed to make sure her children were not involved with the drug again.

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  20. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Johnboy (10,167) Says:
    March 26th, 2013 at 8:03 pm
    I’m utterly shattered to discover that a lawyer can be an arsehole!

    Sorry Johnboy. :)

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  21. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    He was a little too quick to grovel to authority

    Authority, like office, is typically only assumed.

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  22. Northland Wahine (667 comments) says:

    Well cop or cop lawyer, if I’m ever robbed or assaulted, I won’t be contacting the local drug dealer for assistance.

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  23. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    No how you feel darling. Here’s a handy number when things turn to shit:

    Need a little help? Call 0800 HELPME
    Ring ring………..
    Thankyou for calling the Psychiatric Hotline…
    – If you are Obsessive-Compulsive, please press 1 repeatedly.
    – If you have a Dependent Personality, please ask someone else to press 2.
    – If you have Multiple Personalities, please press 3, 4, 5, and 6.
    – If you have a Narcissistic Personality, please press *
    – If you are a Cannabis User, please press #
    – If you have Persecutory Delusions, we already know who you are and what you want, but please stay on the line so we can trace your call. Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean we’re not out to get you.
    – If you are Schizophrenic, listen carefully and one or more little voices will tell you which number to press (or at least argue about which one to press).
    – If you have Depression, it doesn’t matter what number you press because no-one’s going to take any notice anyway.
    – If you have Delusions or Hallucinate, please be warned that the telephone receiver is coming alive and is about to bite your ear.
    – If you have any further problems, whatever you do, don’t go and see a Doctor.

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  24. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Well cop or cop lawyer, if I’m ever robbed or assaulted, I won’t be contacting the local drug dealer for assistance.

    Like if your this woman you mean ?: “dragging his partner along the floor by the hair, before beating her.”

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  25. Northland Wahine (667 comments) says:

    Kea, cop or not, the guy is a dick if he did this. That doesn’t make all cops hair pulling wife beaters

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  26. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    No one said it does make “all” cops hair pulling wife beaters. It just makes me sick (and more that a bit worried) to see otherwise intelligent people act as apologists for every wrong done by the cops. It really is not necessary to do that in order to support the police. Wrong is wrong. Cops and other authority figures do not belong on a pedestal. Just look at longknives half arsed comment tonight !

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  27. Northland Wahine (667 comments) says:

    Kea, I’m of the opinion that the polices job is tough enough without having defend dorks like this. if stating I’d call a cop before calling a drug dealer makes me an apologist, it’s a label I cam live with.

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  28. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Northland Wahine, that is weak.

    Many jobs are tough and much tougher than being a Police Prosecuting Sergeant. I don’t see the same sort of response when people from those occupations engage in criminal acts.

    It is interesting to note that those who are most vocal about being tough on crime, are the first to minimise and act as apologists when someone in authority offends. I do not see those people jumping into defend – Riki the Timber Stacker- if he gives the missus the bash after a hard day at work. Why ?

    This blind worship of authority is not only ignorant, it is dangerous.

    I do not think police offenders should be dealt with any more severely, or any less, than other people. They are only human (which is good) just like the rest of us. If they stuff up, then it should be dealt with in the same way as the rest of us.

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  29. Dexter (308 comments) says:

    No they are not. Mostly they are uniformed police officers.
    More complex matters are referred to the private law firm who has the contract at the time. They are not police employees. They are private lawyers and are not public servants.

    Rubbish you don’t know what you are talking about.

    Many of the prosecutors, particularly for defended hearings or committal matters are simply civilian lawyers employed by the Police, hence becoming public servants.

    I suggest you actually step foot in a court before deciding to spout your drivel in future.

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  30. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Dexter, good morning. Did you actually read my posts ? The offender IS a Police Sergeant.

    It would seem that most of your Court appearances involve more serious offending and are not dealt with summarily on a list day by the prosecuting Sergeant. Next time the cops give you a summons have someone with better reading skills point out who the Informant is.

    I enjoyed this bit “are simply civilian lawyers employed by the Police, hence becoming public servants.” So I guess the guy called in to fix the air conditioning, paint the station and a vast array of other trades and occupations are all public servants too ? Lawyers are officers of the Court, so I guess they are public servants also in your world.

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  31. Longknives (4,884 comments) says:

    Pathetic sycophant?? I’ve been to Court- Every Prosecutor I dealt with were lawyers who wore plain clothes. My mate who is a Police Prosecutor would punch me in the face if I called him a “Cop”. He has never taken an oath or worn a uniform.
    Is the old janitor who mops out the Police toilets a “Cop”??

    But don’t let inconvenient facts get in the way of your feral hatred of Police. I guess “All the Cops are Criminals and all the Sinners Saints” Eh?

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  32. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    I guess “All the Cops are Criminals and all the Sinners Saints” Eh?

    Longknives, where did that come from ? I think you are responding to what you imagine I think.

    You silly excuse making little man. I know rather a lot more about this than you may imagine. That would explain why I was right, the offender is a sworn uniformed police officer just like I said.

    Just keep digging. Your helping to make my point about unquestioning support for authority.

    “My mate who is a Police Prosecutor would punch me in the face if I called him a “Cop”

    I rest my case :)

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  33. Dexter (308 comments) says:

    Dexter, good morning. Did you actually read my posts ? The offender IS a Police Sergeant

    Really? I was only aware that you had found an article from 13 years ago in which a news paper referred to someone with that name as a Sergeant. Had you dug a little deeper, you will also find references to someone with the same name acting as a lawyer for a child in a protection order case. Prosecutors are also routinely referred to as Sergeants in media reports (as your article ironically highlights), and any negative reporting generally delights in the fact that the ‘offender’ is either a current or former cop, so unless some bizarre suppression order is still in place, this would suggest the opposite is true.

    It would seem that most of your Court appearances involve more serious offending and are not dealt with summarily on a list day by the prosecuting Sergeant

    Oh dear, you don’t even know what a so-called ‘list’ day is do you or what it entails. A breach of liquor ban or burglary can both appear, it’s simply used to see what the plea will be and where it will then go, of course in the case of Burglary it will require a further sentencing hearing if a guilty plea is entered.

    Next time the cops give you a summons have someone with better reading skills point out who the Informant is.

    What on earth are you trying to prove here? Unless it’s a private prosecution the Police will be the informant. You are just confusing yourself even more.

    I enjoyed this bit “are simply civilian lawyers employed by the Police, hence becoming public servants.So I guess the guy called in to fix the air conditioning, paint the station and a vast array of other trades and occupations are all public servants too ”

    They are full time non-sworn members of the police, the only difference is they don’t have the full powers of a Constable. The fact that you can’t see a distinction between a full time employee governed by the Police Act and a casual contractor is quite consistent with your overall lack of understanding.

    While it’s amusing watching you and Longknives battle each other with ignorance, you might want to give your local prosecution a phone call and ask them how many non-sworn Police prosecutors they employee, or better yet go down to your local court and have a look at a defended hearing. You will see a blend of both non-sworn Prosecutors and Sergeants.

    Hopefully the above will educate you somewhat, if not I will leave you and Longknives to your wee fantasy lands, it is kind of amusing after all.

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  34. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    I would have thought a lot of senior public servants would work in Hamilton but live in Huntly for the lifestyle :)

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  35. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Dexter, your funny :)

    I wish I could say more.

    I will be eagerly awaiting your defence of the next offender who bashes his partner. I will watch with keen interest your comments defending Hone the forrestry worker (The most dangerous occupation and very hard work)

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  36. F E Smith (3,307 comments) says:

    As Kea said, the large majority of police prosecutors are sworn officers, usually holding the rank of sergeant. There are quite a number of civilian police prosecutors, however, and these may be the majority in some offices, but most police prosecutors are sergeants of police.

    However, it is pretty well understood that when the words ‘public servant’ is used in the media it is code for ‘police officer’.

    Oddly enough, police officers all seem keen to seek name suppression if they are charged with an offence. Even more oddly, they always seem to instruct defence lawyers and almost never do the decent thing and turn up to court unrepresented to plead guilty at the first opportunity…

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  37. Northland Wahine (667 comments) says:

    Kea, blind worship? Not sure where that came from. As suggested last night by myself, if the man treated his wife in such a manner, he’s a low life. By admitting I still feel safer in the company of cops than drug dealers makes me a blind worshipper in your opinion, knock yourself out.

    This cop is a male, so do I distrust all males? No. It isn’t blind worship or apologist to call a cop before a drug dealer for help. It’s realistic.

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  38. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    blind worship?

    NZ political system draws from the Westminster system, which is a mix of religion and politics.

    The religious often can’t distinguish belief from reality, hence the blindness.

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  39. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Northland Wahine, you are attacking a straw man and attributing views to me that I do not have. I only see this sort of defensive hysterical reaction when the offender is a member of the police. I do not see people, like yourself, jumping in to defend people who beat up woman, unless they are cops doing the bashing. You apply very different standards to those in authority, which is something I am not comfortable with. Some try and distract from that fact by accussing me of being anti-police. I am not anti police.

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  40. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    “Oddly enough, police officers all seem keen to seek name suppression ”

    So are timber workers. The difference is they don’t get it.

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