Torture in Fiji?

March 5th, 2013 at 2:33 pm by David Farrar

TVNZ reports:

A brutal video allegedly showing police or military beating and torturing two men is believed to have been filmed in November.

Sources have told ONE News the man in the back of the pick-up truck is prisoner Iowane Benedito, who had escaped from custody, and that the other man pictured in the video was accused of harbouring him. 

That incident followed another in which Amnesty International wrote an open letter to interim Prime Minister Frank Bainimarama about five prisoners who were beaten.

Its East Asia head Roseann Rife wrote in that case that one of the prisoners was so severely beaten his right leg had to be amputated as a result of an infected open fracture and that he was unable to appear in court until two months after his recapture.

TVNZ and other media sites have got an edited one minute version of the video, as it is so disturbing. I’ve embedded below the full video.

The video is difficult to watch. The restrained men is beaten with stocks or batons and kicked.His ankles are targeted often and must have been shattered. A baton was inserted up his anus (through clothing) multiple times. The soles of his feet are pounded with the long end of the baton. A dog is set on him as he is helpless

There are really just two questions for the Fijian Government.

  1. Are the men who did the , employed by the Government and if so who ordered the ?
  2. Have they been arrested and charged?

Actions speak louder than words. Of course it will be claimed they were rogue officers (if they were Police officers) and all countries have rogue officers. But the issue is what has happened to the men responsible? The abuse was reported last year? Were any arrests made? Have the men responsible now been arrested? he video evidence is compelling.

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71 Responses to “Torture in Fiji?”

  1. Graeme Edgeler (3,289 comments) says:

    The New Zealand Government is just lucky that no video exists of the Mangaroa Prison abuse.

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  2. rouppe (980 comments) says:

    That is the most disgusting and disturbing thing I’ve ever seen. Taliban of the South Pacific

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  3. David Farrar (1,900 comments) says:

    Not really Graeme. Video would have been great as it would have made it easier to prosecute. The Mangaroa incidents of 20 years ago were not covered up by the Govt. Quite the contrary there was a ministerial inquiry, compensation, apologies, and 12 guards were sacked.

    Sadly no prosecutions happened as it was thought proving individual acts against individual officers would not succeed. But with a video of such torture there is absolutely no excuse for there not to be prosecutions.

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  4. Andrei (2,667 comments) says:

    Is there no end to the depravity of humanity?

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  5. RRM (9,992 comments) says:

    Another shining achievement for the inhuman race.

    I wonder how many others there have been besides this, that are not on video?

    And why have we not led an international force to wipe out Bananarama? I don’t remember. It has been obvious for years that they are nasty thugs ruling that country by force or threat of force.

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  6. cha (4,073 comments) says:

    The New Zealand Government is just lucky that no video exists of the Mangaroa Prison abuse

    Rawiri Falwasser

    //

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  7. gump (1,657 comments) says:

    Cameron Slater will be here shortly to tell us why it is in this man’s best interests to be tortured by the Fijian Government.

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  8. AJP (20 comments) says:

    What are the source, providing this video?
    Were they involved or are they actually making this up a bit like the videos coming out of the Middle East.

    Honestly, what a load of crap repeating this shit without any sort of verification.

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  9. iMP (2,411 comments) says:

    Verification? Are you mad AJP? What sort of “verification” do you want? These are just sadistic thugs (probably army or police) brutalising some defenseless victims in their power (probably prisoners who escaped) and they are pissed they got away. Just brutes, but this is what the Fiji military regime has spawned. Where is NZ to help the defenseless Fijian people?

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  10. Andrei (2,667 comments) says:

    It is quite clearly genuine AJP, the individual receiving the beating has been identified and he had to have his right leg amputated.

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  11. Akaroa (575 comments) says:

    What i can’t understand is why the perpetrators of this treatment recorded it in the form shown?.

    Especially if they really were Police officers and not some local self appointed vigilantes.

    I haven’t looked at all of it, but I have seen that at least two cell-phones were recording what was happening.

    It certainly LOOKS disgraceful, sadistic and entirely over the top – but I’d like to know a bit more of the surrounding circumstances before passing judgement though. Pictures are not always what they seem to be.

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  12. hamnidaV2 (247 comments) says:

    Should we not expect a statement and action on this issue from Murry McCully?

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  13. projectman (226 comments) says:

    re Graeme Edgeler at 2:38 pm: “The New Zealand Government is just lucky that no video exists of the Mangaroa Prison abuse.”

    Not so. It is the prison officers that are lucky.

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  14. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    This is typical behaviour of police forces around the world, including ours. The only difference here in NZ is the beatings are not so severe.

    No amount of abuse and thumbing me down will change the reality of that.

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  15. Jack5 (5,143 comments) says:

    kea posted at 4.08:

    …This is typical behaviour of police forces around the world, including ours. The only difference here in NZ is the beatings are not so severe. ..

    Typical of the NZ police? What rubbish. There is a huge difference between police forces like ours and these thugs.

    There are lies and fucking lies, Kea. And your 4.08 post is of the latter type.

    What are you trying to say? That the Fijian police are like everybody else?

    Perhaps like the Tongan thugs who beat a holidaying NZ policeman to death.

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  16. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    Jack5, It is because of authoritarian worshiping morons like you that these things occur.

    Anyone that denies the NZ Police give out “beatings” is an idiot and knows little about the reality of policing, here or any place else.

    A few of KB’s readers need to grow up.

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  17. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    OH look !

    “Mr Falwasser was struck several times with Police batons, repeatedly pepper-sprayed, and the officers also armed themselves with riot shields. Mr Falwasser received a 6cm cut to his head, and later stated that he could hardly breathe as a consequence of being peppersprayed. His vision was blurred, and he felt as if his face was burning. For several weeks after the incident, he suffered from headaches and dizziness.

    The Authority Chair, Justice Lowell Goddard, said the investigation found the use of force was unjustified, and the type of force was unnecessary and unreasonable.”

    Made in NZ

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  18. mara (794 comments) says:

    In countries infested by the Religion of Peace, this is how women are treated for showing a tiny bit too much ankle or eyes, and we say nothing and shrug. Is this more disgusting because Fiji is a bit closer to home?

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  19. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    Kea (2,361) Says:

    March 5th, 2013 at 4:08 pm
    This is typical behaviour of police forces around the world, including ours. The only difference here in NZ is the beatings are not so severe.

    No amount of abuse and thumbing me down will change the reality of that.

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  20. Jack5 (5,143 comments) says:

    What Kea didn’t say about the Independent Police Conduct Authority’s finding on the the Rawiri Falwasser incident at Whakatane in 2006:

    … the subsequent Police investigation was professional and thorough and independent advice was properly obtained from the Crown Solicitor;• the Police decision to lay criminal and disciplinary charges against the officers was justified and appropriate; the subsequent Police investigation was professional and thorough and independent advice was properly obtained from the Crown Solicitor; the Police decision to lay criminal and disciplinary charges against the officers was justified and appropriate ….

    You think there will be a similar response to the Fiji thuggery in this video Kea? Yeah right.

    Why are you trying to divert reaction to this Fijian brutality to something unrelated, Kea? Holiday in Fiji, perhaps?

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  21. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    Jack5, how about you admit you were wrong ?

    Your cut n’ paste hardly supports this outburst, does it ? “There are lies and fucking lies, Kea. And your 4.08 post is of the latter type. ”

    It is not nessescary to put the police on a pedastal in order to support them. To keep them honest and on the right track we need people like me, not you.

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  22. Jack5 (5,143 comments) says:

    Kea, your argument (at 4.54) is ad hominem, and bombastic, too.

    You assert all police forces are the same, and when someone disagrees with you, you call them “authoritarian worshiping morons”.

    You brazenly assert that people like yourself are necessary to keep police “honest and on the right track”.

    You try a traditional tactic of the ignorant – the broken record technique, mindless repetition — by quoting your own post so that it appears twice in the thread (4.07 and 4.38).

    You label anyone who disagrees with you an idiot. (Your words: “Anyone that denies the NZ Police give out ‘beatings’ is an idiot.”)

    You take a tiny sliver of the Police Conduct Authority’s report then attack me for countering with another small extract.

    Thank God that you’re not in our police force, Kea, or we would be in trouble.

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  23. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    Jack5, you called me a liar and I provided documented evidence to show I was not.

    My claim was that NZ cops hand out beatings and noted they were less severe.

    You have no credibility and have been revealed as either a liar or an idiot. Take ya pick.

    What part of Falwasser’s beating do you consider ok btw ? It says a lot about the type of person you are.

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  24. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    Kea (2,364) Says:
    March 5th, 2013 at 4:37 pm
    Kea (2,361) Says:

    March 5th, 2013 at 4:08 pm
    This is typical behaviour of police forces around the world, including ours. The only difference here in NZ is the beatings are not so severe.

    No amount of abuse and thumbing me down will change the reality of that.

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  25. Jack5 (5,143 comments) says:

    Kea, you posted:

    …This is typical behaviour of police forces around the world, including ours. The only difference here in NZ is the beatings are not so severe…

    That is not true. It casts murkier stuff than mud at the reputations of the decent people who make up the vast proportion of our police force.

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  26. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    Actually fuck being polite.

    The sort of person you are Jack5 is type you see beating that man and smashing his feet up. That is type of thing you defend and the type of person you are.

    It makes me sick that we tolerate pieces of shit like you breathing the same air as the rest of us. Your an authority worshiping cowardly waste of oxygen. All it takes for creeps like you to do those things is opportunity.

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  27. Jack5 (5,143 comments) says:

    Boy, what are you on, Kea? Your mind jumps from my challenging your nasty assertion that beatings are typical of NZ police to accusing me of praising these Fijian thugs.

    Kea, the only apology I might owe you, is for attacking your broken-record, repetition technique of argument.

    It’s possible this is a symptom of some severe condition such as Tourette’s. If so, I am sorry for mentioning your illogical repetitions.

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  28. Nostalgia-NZ (5,268 comments) says:

    Didn’t need to check out the video, David’s description was enough to get the picture. I hope Mc Cully will have something to say on this.

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  29. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    Jack5, I suggest you know fuck all about the reality of the police. They do beat people up regularly, especially ones who escape or resist, like the guy in the video. Just not as bad as in that video.

    The things in the video were done by your intellectual and moral brothers.

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  30. RRM (9,992 comments) says:

    Jack5 why are you feeding the troll?

    Personally I’d rather bang my head repeatedly against a Policeman’s truncheon! :-)

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  31. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    One of the consequences of the PC changes that have invaded the world in the last 20 years is that when things do breakdown – they really do.

    Alongside the banning of corporal punishment in schools thru to the anti-smaking legislations we have seen the removal of all sorts of other tools that people in charge used to use to keep things under control. This just isnt police and military – but school teachers and bus drivers etc – they have all had removed from them tools of control.
    Parents have also lost those tools.

    As a result when things go wrong – its often really bad.
    Child murders are way up compared to when parents could use a range of tools to control the children – and yes that included a good whack on the bum.

    And this thing in Fiji is just another example. If you – as a policeman or solder – are going to break the rules – then you may as well go for the whole hog because it wont be any worse.
    Obviously these guys had really pissed someone off and they are getting the message that it wasnt appreciated.

    Ill bet that the two of them had been up to something pretty similar themselves and they were simply getting some of their own medicine. If thats right – then the deserve everything they are getting.

    If not – then they shouldnt have been in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    And why did they make the video – so that everyone would see it and think “Fuck – Im not going to piss those guys off in Fiji.” And I can tell you – rubber or polythene hoses hurt like shit – I mean really hurt. – and they dont break bones.

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  32. Nick K (1,253 comments) says:

    Jack5, I suggest you know fuck all about the reality of the police. They do beat people up regularly, especially ones who escape or resist, like the guy in the video. Just not as bad as in that video.

    The things in the video were done by your intellectual and moral brothers.

    I spent almost six years in the police, Kea. It is your statements that lack reality, not anyone else’s.

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  33. Jack5 (5,143 comments) says:

    RRM quite sensibly asks of me (at 5.48) in my responses to the squawking Kea:

    …why are you feeding the troll?

    You are quite right, RRM, and I’m sorry.

    It was stupid of me to think I might cause squawking Kea to blow an artery in his head. It’s clear there’s nothing inside the skull where you usually find a brain.

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  34. Griff (8,079 comments) says:

    Its called pigeon chess
    or more correctly parrot chess
    http://penguinpetes.com/gallery/MyWalls/pigeon_chess.png

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  35. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    We have got quite a list now of the people who deny NZ police bash people and then make excuses for police brutality. So far they have presented the usual lie/deny and when provided evidence from the PCA transcripts, personal attacks.

    We even have one sicko actually defending what happened in the video ! Along with RRM,Jack5 and Griff who reckon its ok to just “pretend” it does not happen. I hope the next victim is them, or better still, one of THEIR kids. (It is always that sort who scream loudest when it effects them)

    Nick K, so you NEVER saw anyone get a beating in your six years in the police. You fucking liar ! You just took my opinion of the Police down a few notches with that absurd statement. I guess you think I am as ignorant as some of the others above. Bad call.

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  36. Nostalgia-NZ (5,268 comments) says:

    barry

    ‘Ill bet that the two of them had been up to something pretty similar themselves and they were simply getting some of their own medicine. If thats right – then the deserve everything they are getting.

    If not – then they shouldnt have been in the wrong place at the wrong time.’

    So they were to blame for getting beaten for some reason we don’t know, and that isn’t accurate then it’s still their fault for being in the wrong place. Got it.

    Hate to point out the obvious but the difference between this and the kiwi cop being beaten to death in Tonga was that The Commissioner in Tonga was either an Aussie or a Kiwi and didn’t buy the first story that the prison inmate had killed the nzer and looked further. In Fiji I doubt the ‘government’ would have done anything but condone this behavior, but the leaking of the video might force their hand. This is representative of the subjugation of the people of Fiji by force.

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  37. Yoza (1,901 comments) says:

    While the level of abuse meted out to the victims in this video is appalling, it pales into insignificance when compared to the way the Indonesian security forces administer ‘justice’ in Western Papua.

    I doubt the amount of opprobrium directed at the Fijian thugs by New Zealand’s mainstream media would reach similar levels if the perpetrators were Indonesian security forces dishing it out to indigenous Western Papuans, Bahraini police dealing to Shia dissidents or the way the Israeli security apparatus regularly dishes out this form of ‘justice’ to Palestinians.

    Like Kea, I have no doubt that this form of violence is prevalent throughout the domestic security organisations of all countries including New Zealand, to believe otherwise is to exhibit the most extreme form of naiveté.

    Nick K (441) Says: at 5:55 pm ‘I spent almost six years in the police, Kea. It is your statements that lack reality, not anyone else’s.’

    I remember seeing a news story quite recently where a young man was turned into a quadriplegic after a New Zealand police officer threw him over a fence while he was handcuffed, breaking his neck.

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  38. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    West Coast man John Menzies won $35,000 after a High Court civil trial in Christchurch last November.

    Mr Menzies sued police alleging four officers brutally beat him after threatening him with arrest for no reason as he walked home from a West Coast hotel on July 8, 2000.

    The jury found in favour of police on some matters but ruled Constable Terrence Hunt struck Mr Menzies with a baton and a police torch and kicked him, then fabricated evidence in order to prosecute and wrongfully imprison him.

    Mr Tanczos said it was wrong that no disciplinary action was taken against Hunt.

    http://www.peterellis.org.nz/Institutions/Police/2005/2005-0311_Stuff_SickPolice.htm

    Most of the folk who get a beating are bad buggers and never complain. It is mainly when they beat up someone who is not so bad.

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  39. greenjacket (479 comments) says:

    For God’s sake Jack5 – please don’t feed the troll (Kea)!

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  40. tristanb (1,127 comments) says:

    So a military dictator takes control of the country and people are surprised that this type of thing happens?

    As soon as Bainimarama took over the NZ government should have stopped all aid, and issued a travel warning stating that our government would not help those who visit Fiji on holiday.

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  41. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    greenjacket, so what side are you on you vile little prick ? The “it never happens” or the “its ok” crowd ?

    Days like this people disgust me. Though I have to say no cop I know would feed me this line of shit.

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  42. Nostalgia-NZ (5,268 comments) says:

    ‘As soon as Bainimarama took over the NZ government should have stopped all aid, and issued a travel warning stating that our government would not help those who visit Fiji on holiday.’

    My memory might be failing me but I’m sure nz stopped aid, issued travel warnings and prevented those involved in the coup from entry here. Later, and also from memory, nz decided that the aid issue was disadvantaging the general population rather than the coup perpetrators.

    I find it bloody difficult to follow how this event somehow has a mirror image in nz. I think the reality is that some of the ‘withdrawals’ of support to Fiji are exposed by this event. No nz or aussie police advisor or administrator assisting Fiji as part of an aid package would have stayed silent on this, again a reflection of the reality that ‘softly softly’ and keeping a strong element of observation and support of the proper administration of civil services should be the a priority when withdrawing aid or support for Fiji following what are now it’s fairly frequent coups. Step up Mc Cully.

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  43. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    I find it bloody difficult to follow how this event somehow has a mirror image in nz.

    Probably why no one made such a claim.

    The frequency and severity of beatings are far less in NZ. They are also more likely to lead to disciplinary action IF reported. But it does happen and it happens a lot.

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  44. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    As soon as Bainimarama took over the NZ government should have stopped all aid, and issued a travel warning stating that our government would not help those who visit Fiji on holiday.

    lol…. yeah, how about we cut-off contact with all places that have corrupt and violent cops. It will be a big lonely world for us then. No more “made in China” products for us. In fact all of Asia will be out of bounds. As will Africa most of Europe and all of south America, not to mention the the Middle East and the Pacific Islands.

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  45. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    Oh come on all you wet behind the ears liberals.

    You think this is serious abuse…???

    You aint seen nothing. the muslims would think this was practice. Most S.East Asian countires see this as normal behaviour for anyone whose been giving the police a bit of trouble (no need for a court case )
    As for africa – theyd see this as weekness and theyd always make sure the subject finished up dead – no sense in having witnesses causing more trouble.

    And Latin America. I was told only a few weeks ago that instructions to guards on farms in Argentina are: : “any intruders – you shoot”

    Fiji will emerge from its current troubles as one of the strongest nations in the pacific. Yousee its currently riddled with endemic racism – and thats go to be rooted out.
    Youll note those 2 guys are fijian – who probably think they are superior to the idians and have probably been casuing trouble for them.

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  46. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Kea says police beatings happen, and happen a lot in NZ

    How does this moron know that police beatings happen, ” a lot ” in New Zealand.?

    How do you know that Kea ?

    This idiot Kea quotes one example to support his perverse opinion.

    Then this weak idiot alludes to “police I know.” in an immature attempt to give himself some creditability.
    Pathetic Kea.
    Almost as stupid a post as Akaroa @ 3.53 who would like to know a little more before he is able
    to “pass judgement.”

    i would take a large bet that this fuckwit Kea does not know one single New Zealand police officer.

    P.S. i couldn’t watch more than a few moments of that video.

    Kea and Akaroa, two absolute dorks.

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  47. duggledog (1,575 comments) says:

    The long black stick they are using is half inch hollow alcathene pipe, like you find on a farm. You can whack the shit out of your mate with it and it doesn’t really hurt, unlike the cane which really did.

    Those whacks on the ankles with the wooden bat would have hurt though. Poor bugger wouldn’t be walking again for a while if ever. I note that you can beat someone to death with your fists and or feet in NZ and get off with a couple of years if you call it manslaughter.

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  48. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    Poor bugger wouldn’t be walking again for a while if ever

    It is a bit worse than that actually:

    “was so severely beaten his right leg had to be amputated as a result of an infected open fracture and that he was unable to appear in court until two months after his recapture.”

    All ok with the majority of KB readers though.

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  49. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    bereal, have another drink and check what I actually said. Also learn to count. Then grow up. You may think all blacks and police are gods, but intelligent people do not. They are good at what they do and should be respected for that, but don’t lose sight of reality.

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  50. Nostalgia-NZ (5,268 comments) says:

    Jack Nicholson will be pleased to know that more than one flew over the cuckoo’s nest. It could be a world record in nz.

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  51. KevinH (1,234 comments) says:

    Couldn’t watch the whole video, I abhor violence and the beating of these men is just plain ghastly. Thankfully in New Zealand we are more civilised, our judiciary rightly or on occasion wrongly decides the penalties for criminals without resorting to vigilante justice.

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  52. CharlieBrown (1,024 comments) says:

    Don’t lose any sleep over these people. Sounds like they were bank robbers and thieves. A bit of physical justice is whats needed for alot of criminals in NZ. The best justice we see in this country is when car thieves kill themselves escaping from police.

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  53. Nostalgia-NZ (5,268 comments) says:

    Wow, the subject has become a true nutter’s ‘magnet.’
    What a positive outcome!

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  54. Nick K (1,253 comments) says:

    Nick K, so you NEVER saw anyone get a beating in your six years in the police. You fucking liar ! You just took my opinion of the Police down a few notches with that absurd statement. I guess you think I am as ignorant as some of the others above. Bad call.

    Yes, I saw it. And I reported it and gave a statement on what I saw.

    There are >5,500 cops in the country and one or two isolated incidents do not make our police force in any way like what you saw on that video. Your stereotyping is completely over the top. I don’t know what you do for a job, but I bet whatever it is I could find shit poor examples of those in your industry and tar you with that brush. Is that what you want?

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  55. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    Yes, I saw it. And I reported it and gave a statement on what I saw.

    Ok you started out ok, (by retracting your earlier wee lie) then ruined it all again with this remark: “two isolated incidents do not make our police force in any way like what you saw on that video.”

    Are you trying to tell us that there have only been two cases of police beating up on people ?

    There are numerous reported cases and many more I am aware of that were not made so public. Even the most ignorant can spend a moment googling to discredit you.

    I never stereotyped anyone or suggested this sort of thing is common. That is a strawman your setting up to distract from what I really said. Your first statement supported what I actually said in my original post (Yes, I saw it. And I reported it and gave a statement on what I saw.)

    Your out now so let go of the code and tell the truth:

    Code of Silence
    When an officer is in trouble on the job or in trouble with his wife or girlfriend at home, he counts on his buddies to cover for him. He gives them a story that explains why he “had to do” whatever he did.

    Whether or not they personally condone his behavior, they may rationalize his behavior, saying he was stressed out, under a lot of pressure, or quite simply, that he’s only human. They repeat his version of the story and they stick to that version. They put themselves on the line with their fellow officer.

    Whether testifying in court or smoothing things out at home, the rules are simple for them:

    Say as little as possible.
    Answer only the question asked.
    Don’t give details.
    Deny all accusations.
    Say “I don’t remember, I didn’t see that, or I don’t know.”

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  56. Dazzaman (1,143 comments) says:

    Did not want to watch it but did…regret it now. Truly horrible thing to do.

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  57. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    There are 5,500 350 cops in the country Fiji and one or two isolated incidents do not make our their police force in any way like what you saw on that video. Your stereotyping is completely over the top.

    How is that sounding Nick K ?

    How about we just stop the silly nonsense and call wrong things wrong ? Failing to accept responsibility, denial, justifying wrong doing, excuse making and pleading special circumstances are traits of criminal offenders. But I am sure you already know that…

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  58. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    “Dazzaman (986) Says:
    March 5th, 2013 at 9:34 pm
    Did not want to watch it but did…regret it now. Truly horrible thing to do.”

    Don’t read the comments above. You wont sleep. :(

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  59. Nick K (1,253 comments) says:

    I give up, Kea. You’re a lost cause. It’s clear you’re paraphrasing to suit your prejudices. I spent almost six years in the police and came across thousands of suspects/offenders and can recall two bad incidents – one of which I have mentioned here already.

    Why don’t you tell us what you do for a job so I can say how bad your industry is based on a few bad eggs?

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  60. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    Nick K, your just being defensive. I simply said NZ cops give beatings. Its a fact yet you deny it. That says a lot about you, but nothing about me. I did not “make” the facts, I only reported them. You and a bunch of dark vicious authoritarian cop groupies lost the plot over it.

    I would love to tell you what I do for a job. But sadly I can not, for the same reason my real name is not Kea.

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  61. CharlieBrown (1,024 comments) says:

    I just watched the video and there must be alot of people out there with weak stomachs as it wasn’t that bad (although I can’t comment on the blurred out sections). The pain looks far less than what you would get with the lashes you get in south east asian countries.

    As I said earlier though, if these two men were bank robbers and\or involed in home invasions than all I can say is good riddance. I’d hurt people far worse than that if I caught them breaking and stealing from my home and I could get away with it. When people feel justice isn’t getting served by the legal system then this sort of thing will happen.

    And people relating this sort of activity to the current regime are one-eyed fools. You’d be stupid to think that this sort of thing didn’t happen under previous rulers. I’ve heard that Frank bainarama has at least cracked down on corruption and racism. Don’t forget that the previous constitution had fijian indians being treated by law as second class citizens. I’d rather live under military rule than under racist self-serving socialism.

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  62. Nick K (1,253 comments) says:

    I simply said NZ cops give beatings. Its a fact yet you deny it. That says a lot about you, but nothing about me.

    I don’t deny it. I told you I saw it with my own eyes. I’m denying it’s as bad a problem as you seem to maintain it is.

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  63. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    Nick K, I never said how bad I thought it was. It was not that long ago that “softening up” arrests was a regular thing. Don’t even bother telling me otherwise.

    You have wasted a lot of time boxing at shadows. You “don’t deny it” (now) and we both agree. All the other points you raised came out of your thoughts, based on what you imagined I was saying, rather than reading my clear words literally. It is a typically cop like defensiveness.

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  64. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    I am with you KEA.
    I know a prison officer who worked at a local remand centre..He said all the prisoners come in covered in bruises..He would ask..Who did this to you ? and they would say , the police. At least Chinese cops know how to not leave bruises!
    Many years ago , I knew an old white male who was a first offender in jail. He worked at the Lower Hutt Police station on work release. He was very , very shocked by the fact that he had to clean so much blood off the cell walls every morning.
    In my relative youth , a close associate and I were framed by the NZ police..We have never been exonerated or compensated.. My associate is now dead..
    Those who naively , blindly support the NZ police are well , blind and naive..Usually they are people who have had very little contact with the police , have never been handcuffed , have never been in a cell or a court room, but man do these people moan when they or one of their own unexpectedly find themselves in the middle of the so called justice system.
    As I get it , all of the Pacific nations are sick of having things imposed on them by Aussie and NZ. Fiji has no need of NZ..It is so cosy with China..It probably has a bigger miltary capability than NZ does..There is tension building through out the Pacific between China and US.
    Torture is routine in Chinese prisons..One has to wonder who filmed this video? Who released it? What has already happened to this person?

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  65. Lance (2,704 comments) says:

    This has to be the worst sustained thread hijack I have ever seen.

    Yep, Fiji is practically lawless but the holidays are cheap. So most NZ doesn’t give a shit.

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  66. Akaroa (575 comments) says:

    Ah, if anyone’s still following this thread I’d just like to say I’ve never been called a ‘Dork’ before – not in this medium anyway!!

    (See bereal at 8.30pm last night)

    Ol’ bereal apparently took offence and put mouth/fingers into gear before engaging brain – at least, that’s the kindest interpretation I can put on his outburst! (Hope you’re feeling better now, bereal!!)

    For the record, as my ability to sensibly judge incidents such as this i advance my twenty-five plus years service in the military – (alright then – Air force) – Police. And in later years, time spent in a civilian organisation that looks into Police misconduct.

    During those years, in UK, Northern ireland, Aden, Cyprus and various other little global hot-spots, I came across and worked with every type of Policeman known to man.

    Brit, and foreign civil and military Police. Some good cops, some bad cops, a few lying cops, several smart cops, too many dumb cops, some keen cops, a lot of couldn’t-care-less cops and a few cops who should never have been entrusted with a Warrant Card, and plenty of cops who wished they hadn’t been entrusted with one!!

    In short – all types. And all types initially motivated in wanting to be cops by a kaleidoscope of official, personal, real and imagined issues.

    I quickly learned not to take Police-related events at face value – one can soon end up with the ol’ egg-on-face syndrome and look awfully foolish!

    So, bereal – why don’t you do just that. Get real I mean, exercise a bit of caution before jumping to an early and possibly inaccurate/unfair/unbalanced conclusion. And if you are, or ever get to be in a position where what you conclude is likely to bear on someone’s future career – or even life – then always ensure your judgement is sound and above criticism.

    Here endeth the the lesson!

    (Pity hardly anyone will read it, eh?)

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  67. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Hi Akaroa,
    i read your effort above.
    Good on you for your employment history.

    You saw that video of those men being beaten and abused did you ?

    Here are the questions for you.
    Do you feel that that type of abuse could be condoned in certain circumstances ?

    In your mind, and in light of your significant experience can you imagine a set of circumstances that may
    cause you to believe such treatment of a restrained prisoner could be justified ?
    What would be one reason for example ?

    If you are unable to answer in the positive perhaps you may give a reason why you need further information
    before you make a judgement.

    A ‘Dork’ would be unable to give an acceptabe response.

    i’ll check later to see if you really are a dork or if i owe you an apology.

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  68. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Poor old Kea.

    What a sad sack. A true dork.
    You don’t need to be Sherlock Holmes to know it was the tit Kea
    that gave the above post a thumbs down ?

    i credit Akaroa to have had the gorm to reply if he had read it.

    Only a certified gormless drongo dork like Kea would sneak in and thumbs down it.
    And you can bet your left one that the weak lightweight will read this and thumbs down it as well.

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  69. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    At lest the guy is still alive. In Texas last year police murdered a man for running from them. It took them six months to decide that the cop should lose his job, even though they had video of the event. Not all police are thugs, but being protected from prosecution attracts them to the job.

    http://rt.com/usa/officer-tuter-shot-allen-707/

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  70. Akaroa (575 comments) says:

    RE: Bereal at 5.18pm.

    Thanks for your response. (Hope this thread stays up long enough for us to complete our discussion, btw!)

    The main answer to your query is ‘Of course such APPARENTLY mindless brutality could not be condoned’

    But. And there’s always a ‘but’ isn’t there!!

    There are one or two points that would prompt me to withhold judgement, at least until the full facts were established.

    For instance:

    Proper conclusions can’t be drawn until all participants – Police, victim and any witnesses – in the incident had been interviewed after being cautioned and given the opportunity to have legal advice. That way all the squares are ticked and the way is open for proper, legal punitive/corrective action to be taken. Action that won’t falter in light of any procedural oversight.

    There may be extenuating circumstances. What, for instance, I hear you ask.?

    Well, was the perpetrator acting under orders from a superior? In which case the major portion of blame and responsibility goes to to the superior. Was there a senior rank/superioe off-camera saying, for instance, ‘Give him another whack – in the testicles this time’?

    Further, what preceded the apparent attack – off camera? Had the victim killed/seriously injured a colleague of the person delivering or ordering the beating? No excuse, I know, but relevant nevertheless.

    Also, is there an acceptance of such treatment in that Police force – (if they were Police, of course)?

    Who else witnessed this incident? Have they been seen? What is their version of events leading up to what we saw on screen?

    Etc., etc., etc.

    Guess what i am saying is, never slavishly and unquestioningly believe the evidence of ones own eyes, – (especially on possibly edited film,photo,video) – without knowing the whole story! A lot of cops and other well-intentioned individuals have come unstuck for not observing that, oh, so simple, rule.

    Hope this answers your query bereal!!

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  71. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Hi Akaroa,

    OK, that was a reasonable response @ 7.34 am

    Your use of the word, ‘apparently’ and the other points you made are a fair enough explanation of
    why you would choose to withhold judgement at this stage.

    You are not a dork, i withdraw that.

    It will be interesting to see the results of the investigation that the Fijians say they will conduct, and if their investigation
    is one that is credible and ticks all the boxes you mention.

    Thanks for your reply.

    Of course that still leaves us with just the one dork, Kea.

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