Competing for the most lunatic policy

April 22nd, 2013 at 9:00 am by David Farrar

Just as I thought you couldn’t get a crazier policy that Labour and Greens on energy, Winston has upped the stakes and is basically proposing to steal money from all our retirement accounts.

NBR reports:

New Zealand First is proposing the Cullen Fund and funds be used to re-nationalise Mighty River Power and possibly Contact Energy. …

But speaking on TV3’s “The Nation”, Mr Peters said the Government had the ability to access the Cullen Fund. 

You’ve got the ability to access Kiwi Saver in the short term,” he said.

He said buying back Mighty Rover Power would be bottom line for NZ First support for any Government.

You’ve also got the ability to internationally access the market and borrow, which as you know according to Treasury, because this is a high yielding asset, that makes economic sense to do that, he said.

Mr Peters said to use Kiwisaver funds the Government would need to change the investment rules.

“You could quite easily do that in the short term …

This shows what happens when politicians start competing for the most extreme policy in order to win votes.

KiwiSaver funds do not belong to the Government. They are the private property of those who have one. My KiwiSaver fund is just as much my private property as my bank account, my shares, my house, my car etc.

Winston has said that he wants to forcibly legislate to force anyone with a private KiwiSaver account to purchase back Contact Energy and MRP shares on behalf of the Crown.

That is outrageous. This is like saying we will force every homeowner to take on an additional mortgage, so the Government can build a new office block.

If you elect a Government that treats your private retirement savings as a play-thing for the Government to take over, then the boundaries between public and private will be shattered for ever.

These crazy policies will see us become a banana republic. Who the hell would invest in New Zealand? Why would I keep my money in a KiwiSaver account if Winston and his allies plan to take control of it after the election?

3 News reported last week:

JBWere has sent a strong message that it and other investors will flee the New Zealand stock market if the state intervention signalled by Labour and the Greens this week comes to pass.

“The steps the Labour/Greens are suggesting, if enacted, are significant enough for JBWere to consider a reduced allocation to the local share market,” the firm which oversees $1 billion of client funds in the New Zealand share market said.

“We doubt we would be alone in making this judgment.”

Of course they won’t be alone. We live in a globalised world where capital and labour are highly mobile. The combined policies of Labour, Greens and NZ First will send investment fleeing. And it is investment that creates jobs.

Labour and Greens want to nationalise the electricity industry. NZ First want to nationalise KiwiSaver. How confident are you that is where they’ll stop?

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74 Responses to “Competing for the most lunatic policy”

  1. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  2. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    Well Judith
    You can be first to have your house confiscated for the greater good. Hell, it’s only private property.

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  3. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Firstly Judith you don’t have 49% of the power companies.

    Secondly, Winston’s plan is talking about going to private KS providers and making them hand over my (your) contributions, very similar to going to your bank and getting them to hand over access to your cheque account.

    Get over your dislike of Key and look past the end of you nose and if you do this you can see whats in store for us if these loonies get anywhere our money. If it wasnt going to affect me so badly I’d vote for them just to watch fuckwits bleed out because they are so short-sighted.

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  4. hamnidaV2 (247 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  5. alloytoo (542 comments) says:

    Judith, you could claim a great many things.

    That doesn’t make any of them true.

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  6. kowtow (8,464 comments) says:

    Well I saw a lot of lunatics in parliament last week redefining marriage!

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  7. alloytoo (542 comments) says:

    Hamnidav2

    Since you approve Winston can take double from your savings and leave mine alone.

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  8. Ed Snack (1,872 comments) says:

    More fool you David for believing that government would respect “private property”. Your Kiwisaver money is a political football which will be played with by politicians. Were you truly naive enough to think that they wouldn’t ?

    Judith, one can tell that your description of yourself as an “academic” must be true, only an academic could come up with such a stupid statement about asset sales with an apparent straight face.

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  9. JeffW (326 comments) says:

    “And it is investment that creates jobs”. I would say that 50% of NZers think that Government creates jobs. This belief is reinforced by Ministers frequently talking about how their government has created x number of jobs, and that their policies will see y more jobs created. National is as guilty of this as Labour. Ministers need to find the courage to say that all government can do is get out of the way (which would be a significant change in policy).

    A hidden benefit to Labour and the Watermelons is of course that with investment scared away from NZ, and many fewer jobs, more people will look to government for welfare, i.e. more Labour voters. Our futures have been kicked in the guts over the last week.

    As for Judith above, what nonsense. You have zero control over any investment you as an individual has in MRP. The government can choose how it wishes to waste the dividend stream in any way it decides. But you can choose how you waste your Kiwisaver fund yourself, upon retirement.

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  10. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Lance (1,852) Says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 9:13 am
    ————————-

    They are welcome to it – as long as they keep the other occupants!

    It is not ‘stealing’, (its the word I think is misused) it is investing and if the power companies are such a damn good thing to have shares in, then it makes sense for to be reinvesting in them in such a way.

    Either they are not good to invest in – and if that is the case why all the propaganda telling us they are,
    or, they are good to invest in – so why not put the super and kiwisaver money into such a good investment?

    I don’t have any say in each particular investment they make with my kiwisaver money – I fail to see how this is any different from investing in the many other things they do – e.g. Z (shell)

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  11. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Judith – not real bright are ya!

    Didnt muldoon once steal everyones super? winston was his boy back then?

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  12. slijmbal (1,236 comments) says:

    This is good news

    With Labour, Greens AND Winston 1st Party all proposing communist (and barking mad) type initiatives it will scare votes away from the left.

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  13. queenstfarmer (782 comments) says:

    There are so many problems with this.

    The sharemarket tumble has already cost KiwiSavers millions of dollars. Imagine how many more millions will be wiped off these retirement savings for ordinary NZers if Labour implements their policy. Now Winnie wants to raid those retirement savings.

    It will cost taxpayers millions on the minority floats.

    It will cost taxpayers millions on forgone dividends.

    Labour says we need a CGT to encourage investors away from property and into the sharemarket and other investments. Yet their nationalisation policy has already spooked the market, and will have the opposite effect. It’s a pincer movement – CGT on the property side, threat of nationalisation/huge interventions on the equities side.

    It will discourage investment in electricity generation. Who will risk significant capital when Russel Normal can wake up one morning and decide to wipe out your investment? And investors in other industries will be wary too.

    The savings from cheaper power will be more than offset by Labour/Green policies anyway, making the whole exercise pointless: petrol prices, food prices, and imported goods will rise as a result of Labour/Green policies to lower the dollar. Their ETS tax will make everything more costly. Labour’s CGT. etc etc etc.

    It will result in increased power consumption, by giving away free power and artificially lowering the price, and result in less incentive for efficiency.

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  14. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Pauleastbay (3,557) Says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 9:16 am
    ———————-

    You didn’t read properly – I said my share of that 49%. As a voter and a tax payer and a resident of NZ currently I have a share of 100%. Sure, its not in the ‘technical’ sense of shares, but currently we all own that amount.

    And the rest of what you say is scaremongering. He is not talking about removing your kiwisaver money etc and you never getting back your share – he is simply investing it in the power companies. = you know the ones, they’re on tv everynight telling us what wonderful investments they are. Very wise of Winston to believe what John Key is telling us.

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  15. RRM (9,919 comments) says:

    DPF:
    This is like saying we will force every homeowner to take on an additional mortgage, so the Government can build a new office block.

    Thank goodness we have a sensible NACTional Government, that would never take out debt on taxpayer’s behalf to fund state spending programmes!

    Oh, wait…

    [DPF: Don't be a moron. You are bright enough to know the difference between taxation, and actually taking over management of people's private assets]

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  16. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    dime (6,000) Says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 9:27 am
    Judith – not real bright are ya!

    Didnt muldoon once steal everyones super? winston was his boy back then?
    ———————–

    More scaremonger talk. Reinvestment – not steal. Money still there for when you retire etc. Just the same as it is now, all of it invested but in ‘private’ investments, all of it carrying various degrees of risk, all of it paying varying amounts of interest.

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  17. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    “More scaremonger talk. Reinvestment – not steal.”

    hey dopey, ive decided im going to need your savings. relax though. im going to “reinvest” them.

    my buddies death metal band wants to go on tour and needs funds. im sure youll make a profit. it does carry a degree of risk but im sure youll be OK

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  18. publicwatchdog (2,593 comments) says:

    Good moaning Kiwibloggers!

    Have you seen what that well-known communist fanatic – Bernard Hickey has to say about the ‘Power Barons’?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/bernard-hickey/news/article.cfm?a_id=625&objectid=10878726

    errrr……. so when we had the NZ Department of Electricity and local Power Boards, before the ‘Mad’ Max Bradford electricity reforms, we were ‘North Korea’?

    (yawn…..)

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation campaigner’

    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com

    http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz

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  19. Positan (390 comments) says:

    Peters has been a “would be” politician for so long he’s forgotten the basics of his own existence.

    Monies required by government to fund any “project” must be LEGALLY taken from the people. By no token whatsoever can any politician can pretend that the peoples’ government-inspired-or-controlled investments are government funds.

    It’d appear that long absorption of cigarettes and alcohol has detrimentally affected Peters’ brain.

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  20. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    JeffW (200) Says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 9:20 am

    As for Judith above, what nonsense. You have zero control over any investment you as an individual has in MRP. The government can choose how it wishes to waste the dividend stream in any way it decides. But you can choose how you waste your Kiwisaver fund yourself, upon retirement.
    —————————————-

    That is basically what I was trying to say, if you read my comment below yours. I have no control now on where that money goes, its investment – its not stealing. When I started kiwisaver it was invested in places that now probably don’t even exist – they change those investments many times – all without asking me. Winston is just adding another level to what is already being done – it still won’t give me control of it, and it certainly won’t remove my right to my money when I retire.

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  21. WineOh (630 comments) says:

    Judith, appropriating private assets is theft, which ever way you wrap it up.

    My Kiwisaver account has my personal savings that I have sacrificed from my personal earnings, and is in an investment account in my ownership. Very different from the Muldoon era theft which was more akin to taking money from the ‘Cullen Fund’ which is a collective sum used to fund future superannuation payments. The key difference is individual ownership & control.

    When I plan my retirement, it includes a small reliance on government super, but mostly my own private funds by way of Kiwisaver and other private savings. A shared investment in a power company for which I receive no payment does not fund my retirement, and I cannot eat electricity.

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  22. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    Does anybody have an English translation and more importantly a logic construct of what Penny just posted?
    Because it reads like one of Philu’s worst bonged out rants.

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  23. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    dime (6,002) Says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 9:35 am

    hey dopey, ive decided im going to need your savings. relax though. im going to “reinvest” them.

    ———————————

    I don’t get any say in where they go now – so what changes? Apparently, according to John Key, power companies are excellent things to invest in.

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  24. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    Yes Judith.
    They are called generators and power stations. They cost a lot of money, a very lot of money, lots and lots and lots of money.

    But if you can show us how to generate Megawatts of power of nothing, we are all ears.

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  25. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    WineOh (131) Says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 9:38 am
    ———————————-

    Where does it say you aren’t going to get any payment?
    He is not ‘taking’ the money, never to be seen again.
    It is being reinvested – not absorbed. Kiwisavers will still get the same as they get now from any other investments according to his full statement.

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  26. AG (1,827 comments) says:

    NZ First want to nationalise KiwiSaver. How confident are you that is where they’ll stop?

    I think the question is, how confident is John Key that this is where they’ll stop?

    NZ First did not make it over the 5 per cent threshold on either poll but was still within reach and could be needed by National in 2014.

    Although it has said it will support new GCSB legislation, leader Winston Peters has also said he wants to renationalise Mighty River Power using KiwiSaver funds and the Super Fund.

    Mr Key said yesterday he would give an indication of which parties he could work with closer to the election next year.

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  27. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    “I don’t get any say in where they go now – so what changes? Apparently, according to John Key, power companies are excellent things to invest in.”

    lol you don’t get any say in your kiwisaver?

    you know you can choose which scheme you like right?

    “Apparently, according to John Key, power companies are excellent things to invest in.” – yeah, part of that though is being able to sell your shares.

    you may not like the partial asset sales, but to overlook what winston wants to do makes you no better than a far far leftist.

    i cant quite recall what you hate. i think youre the racist though?

    so how about, JK wants to use your kiwisaver to buy plane tickets for more immigrants. they will help fuel the economy :P

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  28. simpleton1 (225 comments) says:

    Local government already puts another mortgage on properties, by borrowing for projects, and the lenders know that the rates will always be increased, and can easily be put onto other communities to contribute after the fact such as the Kaipara District Mangawhai Scheme.

    Kaipara is not the only district to do this as wider areas are often sent the bill in the name of vibrancy vitality, sustainability, happiness factors and so realize the positive social environmental economic outcomes as is sort of “languaged” into those mission statements.

    So easy to have caveats placed on properties for rates not paid plus costs, that will be claimed back on sale of property and so the seller will not receive his selling price. Easy taking a lolly from a baby.

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  29. rouppe (971 comments) says:

    Judith, it seems the only investment you have made is in a husband.

    Currently I know what my KS is invested in. If I don’t like what they do I can switch providers. Some providers are more invested in NZ, some are more invested globally. I can also change the investment mandate and tell them that I want more or less in cash investments (conservative) or share investments (growth).

    Under your suggestion that control is lost. It is exactly like a government taking money directly out of your bank account.

    And I know its a popular saying that you already own 100% of MRP. But you don’t. Taxes were taken from all of us – past and present – and the money used to build MRP. That infrastructure is owned by the Crown, not by its inhabitants. Think Kaingaroa Forest. This was cleared and planted by the state. It was owned by the Crown. It was given to the Maori as a Treaty settlement. Same thing, except only Maori had an opportunity to invest in it.

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  30. Fox (206 comments) says:

    JBWere has sent a strong message that it and other investors will flee the New Zealand stock market if the state intervention signalled by Labour and the Greens this week comes to pass.

    So an Australian owned fund is threatening to throw it’s toys out of the cot if the current electricity sector oligopoly isn’t allowed to continue gouging NZ electricity consumers for all they’re worth, and convert the loot into exhoberant dividends (rather than investing in generating capacity), much of which is then channelled across the Tasman and to Asia, and out of our economy for good.

    Yeah, that’s really going to endear potential Labour/Green voters to their side of the argument…. hahaha.

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  31. hj (7,011 comments) says:

    ” The SOE sales programme changed all that. It proposed handing those super profits to the richest New Zealanders in the form of shares and dividends.

    That was the moment the Government and the industry crossed that red line and triggered the regulatory backlash promised this week by Labour and the Greens.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/bernard-hickey/news/article.cfm?a_id=625&objectid=10878726

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  32. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Mr Key said yesterday he would give an indication of which parties he could work with closer to the election next year.

    I think it is fair enough for Key to not commit to what parties he would work together with in a coalition….

    …BUT what he should be prepared to state is:
    – he would rule out buying back MRP shares
    – he would rule out any attempt to interfere with privately owned Kiwisaver funds

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  33. WineOh (630 comments) says:

    “Where does it say you aren’t going to get any payment?
    He is not ‘taking’ the money, never to be seen again.”

    Wait… so you’re saying the government will “buy” my Kiwisaver from me? How does that make sense?

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  34. flipper (4,060 comments) says:

    Dime

    RDM did many things, but he did not steal folks superannuation.
    He gave their money back to them because, if you recall, it was taken by compulsion

    Keeping to facts is not a dishonourable course. Other than this, I generally enjoy your contributions. :)

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  35. Nostalgia-NZ (5,202 comments) says:

    This is fertile ground for the opposition.
    Nationalising Mighty River is in fact saying to the public you will ‘own’ the power companies and will save $300 a year. Peters is taking a similar line, unless there is a legislative restraint placed on a member withdrawing kiwi funds when entitled, it’s no different than the status quo where a member has no say as to how his funds are invested. Second rung up the ladder following the ‘spying dramas.’
    If Key had been more decisive with the Dotcom situation and so on, that is upfront, middle NZ wouldn’t have been diverted as much. It might not be sound, but a south Auckland working family it will resonate – lower costs from what they ‘own.’
    Politics is a dog eat dog business and no doubt National or any other party would have done the same, but the good ship ‘Mighty River’ has taken a serious broadside in ‘friendly waters.’

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  36. flipper (4,060 comments) says:

    hj…

    Hickey is a dick, who allows his political prejudices tyo dis[pose of facts.

    He is clearly in bed with the fools at BERL – an organisation that has limited all future business opportunities to the gween/labour parts of the rainbow….

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  37. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Mike Williams agrees with MRP sabotage:

    Speaking on Firstline this morning, Mr Williams said the plan – aimed at halting the incessant rise in power prices – “effectively sabotages” the Government’s asset sales scheme.

    “I think the power policy is a masterstroke by Labour and the Greens,” says Mr Williams.

    “I’m not going to buy shares for $3 this year that could only be worth $1 in two years’ time.”

    http://www.3news.co.nz/NZ-Power-scheme-a-masterstroke/tabid/1607/articleID/295122/Default.aspx

    A masterstroke of sabotage?

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  38. Nostalgia-NZ (5,202 comments) says:

    Of course it is sabotage, but only for the politically naive.

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  39. JeffW (326 comments) says:

    Judith at 9:37
    “That is basically what I was trying to say, if you read my comment below yours. I have no control now on where that money goes, its investment – its not stealing. When I started kiwisaver it was invested in places that now probably don’t even exist – they change those investments many times – all without asking me. Winston is just adding another level to what is already being done – it still won’t give me control of it, and it certainly won’t remove my right to my money when I retire.”.

    So you are arguing that individuals should be able to operate their own Kiwisaver investments. I agree entirely. I can see for many NZers that they will need an investment company to manage their funds, but personally I don’t. I am glad to see you are in the same position as me. You are, however, running your campaign for more economic freedom for individuals in a very odd manner, if I may say.

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  40. davidp (3,581 comments) says:

    We all know that if Shearer is PM then it will be at the head of a Labour-Greens-NZ First-Mana coalition. I’m having difficulty reconciling the coalition’s policies. NZ First won’t enter a coalition unless people’s private KiwiSaver accounts are forced to invest in MRP. Then the Greens and Labour will eliminate power company profits, therefore making those MRP shares worthless. So, together they’ll be raiding people’s superannuation funds in order to win votes by giving away electricity. We’ve solved the mystery of where the money was coming to pay for the free electricity they’ve promised… it is coming from people’s KiwiSaver funds.

    I predict the next election will be fought over superannuation. One side will be making some effort to ensure that people can retire at 65 on a reasonable pension. The other side will be taking people’s superannuation funds, spending them on popularist Argentinian-style policies, and people are going to be working till they are 70.

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  41. Harriet (4,969 comments) says:

    Your superannuation account is a trust account. It has it’s own identity, and you are the benefactor of it when the rules say you are: when you retire.

    It is not a debit and credit cheque account for you to use at will – or any government of the day to use. :cool:

    The biggest complaint about superannuation in Aussie, by those who have accounts and those in the superannuation industry, is that the rules are always changing.

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  42. davidp (3,581 comments) says:

    >Speaking on Firstline this morning, Mr Williams said the plan – aimed at halting the incessant rise in power prices – “effectively sabotages” the Government’s asset sales scheme.

    I’m still planning to buy MRP shares. Thanks to Labour and the Greens I’ll get my allocation for less than it would have cost me a couple of weeks ago. Good news for me. Bad news for the schools and hospitals the sale money was allocated to.

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  43. queenstfarmer (782 comments) says:

    “I think the power policy is a masterstroke by Labour and the Greens,” says Mr Williams.

    “I’m not going to buy shares for $3 this year that could only be worth $1 in two years’ time.”

    This will wipe billions of dollars off the Crown’s balance sheet.

    If this is Labour’s idea of a “masterstroke”…….

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  44. Fox (206 comments) says:

    Don’t worry guys.

    With the way National is going at the moment, Labour and the Greens look set to comfortably command a majority after the next election, and therefore won’t be needing NZ First anyway.

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  45. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    I can’t see Winston First or the Colinservative Party getting anywhere near the 5% threshold next election nor the Maori and Act party winning any seats either.

    Don’t think Key will go the distance either if the polls look like the electorate handing his arse back to him in shreds, And when he goes, English Is sure to follow.

    Looks like It’ll be the General Rumblefuck and Crusher show, I reckon.

    Good luck with that.

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  46. edd (157 comments) says:

    It makes some sense that those of us who are working today should pay for the retired, seeing as the currently retired paid for their elders when they were working.

    But today we have a system where everyone fends for themselves, even the crippled geriatric NZ first voters, so what are you gona do..

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  47. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    flipper – im 36. it was before my time.

    i was always told muldoon got rid of the super scheme and kept the cash…

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  48. sbk (312 comments) says:

    sabotage…typical of the left,a general “tossing of the toys out of their cots” eg a tantrum…enough of the comedy already,please stand aside and let the “adults get on” with running the country.

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  49. PTM (47 comments) says:

    @Judith
    I am trying to get my head around your logic.
    Surely, if Winston goes to all of the fund managers currently managing your invested moneys (including those of your employer and the taxpayer) and demands they sell the investments and hand over the cash so that he can buy back all shares in MRP, this is no different to the banks in Cyprus directly appropriating customer funds to repay bank debt.
    After all, once MRP is back in crown ownership, Greens/Labour policy will distribute much of the profits generated by way of something like $300/annum to power retailers customers. (an interesting situation itself from an equity standpoint in that a larger family will spread the windfall across all users in that home, say $50 dollars each, while a single account holder will use less electricity and benefit as an individual by the whole of the ~$300.)
    Any profits left will be plowed back into the consolidated fund and not available to you as part of your retirement fund.
    Where have I gone wrong in my interpretation?

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  50. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    davidp – we (our family) are taking a split approach. We’re buying shares for the kids at issue since they’ll be held long term but for our own shares we’ll wait and see if they take an initial plunge thanks to the loony left.

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  51. Ed Snack (1,872 comments) says:

    PDM, but that’s not what happened Cyprus. The bank debt was to the depositors, and there was a government backed guarantee on the first 100K Euro per depositor. Because the banks had invested heavily in Greek government bonds (at attractive looking interest rates, and for local political reasons as well) they lost almost all of that money when the EU and the Greek government “negotiated” a haircut for private debt holders in those bonds.

    So it isn’t a case of taking the depositors money to pay bank debt as you put it, the banks were broke and didn’t have the assets backing their liabilities in the form of deposits. Because of the guarantee, the government had to seek a bail out because it couldn’t afford to honour the guarantee. So the end result is that anyone with more than 100K Euro loses a significant portion of their funds, which is what happens when a bank goes broke. None of the bank’s shareholders (and the broke bank was, I think, 80-90% governments owned) and bond holders will see anything at all. So the bank “debt” that they’re repaying is the depositors funds.

    This proposal of Winston’s would require legislation although I’ve no doubt he’d prefer just to lean on the fund managers. But surely those fund managers would be free to invest in MRP shares as they saw fit, subject to the rules around the float about maximum shares controlled by one entity. So does Winston think he knows better how to invest than the various investment fund managers ? And when you think that these shares would be a lousy deal if the Green/Labour plan is implemented, why would you do this.

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  52. KevinH (1,227 comments) says:

    It would be foolish of JB Were to reduce their share allocation to the market on the back of political posturing from opposition parties. If anything the Labour /Greens/NZ First intention to buy back the shares firms up the value of those shares making them attractive medium term solid investments.

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  53. OneTrack (3,092 comments) says:

    Judith

    You better start doing your own saving for your retirement because, as PTM says above, the left are going to spend your KiwiSaver on what they want. You “might” get your own contributions back but you won’t get any appreciation because they are now being used to buy what the left has now defined is an “asset”(sic) with no dividends. High five?

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  54. OneTrack (3,092 comments) says:

    davidp – “We all know that if Shearer is PM then it will be at the head of a Labour-Greens-NZ First-Mana coalition. I’m having difficulty reconciling the coalition’s policies”

    Do you REALLY think that Shearer will be the “head” of that coalition? He might even have the title of Prime Minister. But he won’t be the head.

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  55. OneTrack (3,092 comments) says:

    Nostalgia – “Politics is a dog eat dog business and no doubt National or any other party would have done the same, but the good ship ‘Mighty River’ has taken a serious broadside ”

    Politics is a dog eat dog business and no doubt National or any other party would have done the same, but the good ship ‘New Zealand’ has taken a serious broadside.

    FIFY

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  56. OneTrack (3,092 comments) says:

    Ed Snack “So does Winston think he knows better how to invest than the various investment fund managers ”

    All lefties do, even if they (still) don’t know the difference between revenue and profit.

    And I didn’t get that Winston was going to give the fund managers a choice (well they are just rich pricks) – he was/is going to confiscate those funds. And if you happened to have $10 in your kiwisaver, well that’s all you are going to get back because they will be “investing” (oxymoron) it in something which will not be returning you any dividends.

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  57. bc (1,367 comments) says:

    It’s Winston positioning himself to get over the 5% mark in the next election.
    Like him or loathe him you got to admit that Winston is a master at this. Immigration is no longer a “hot” issue for him, but not to worry, he has two ones for 2014:
    1) gay marriage
    2) re-nationalising assets
    As I mentioned in another post, I think Winston will be holding the balance of power the next election (not the Maori party).

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  58. Nostalgia-NZ (5,202 comments) says:

    Onetrack;

    ‘Politics is a dog eat dog business and no doubt National or any other party would have done the same, but the good ship ‘New Zealand’ has taken a serious broadside’

    I don’t disagree. I didn’t predict it coming but when considering an option of some NZers having a share in the power companies, that is those that can afford to do so, things needed to be ‘sweetened up’ for those that couldn’t afford it. ‘Mum and dad’ investors are rare on the ground in South Auckland, but what is understood there is ‘paying less for one’s [own] power.’ It’s an up and running issue now, it may be that the Nats have to ‘buy’ it back in some fashion by addressing those alienated by SOE sales generally, or those perhaps now looking forward to cheaper power under Labour/Greens. But ideally for the economy just sit out the storm, knowing the issue ‘might’ have weakened by election time.

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  59. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    This proposal of Winston’s would require legislation although I’ve no doubt he’d prefer just to lean on the fund managers.

    Winston’s plan simply cannot be for Kiwisaver fund managers to invest in MRP – that would not renationalise the asset. It would simply shift around which private investors held the shares as their private property.

    Oh no. Winston’s idea of using Kiwisaver to buy back MRP can only be taking funds currently on deposit and using them for the govt to buy back the MRP shares. The govt would have a debt to the Kiwisaver funds, but it would simply be Crown debt and wouldn’t be tied to the shares as such (i.e. the Kiwisaver depositors would hold no MRP shares and the fact the govt had used the Kiwisaver funds – ripped without permission from the savers’ accounts – would not result in the MRP shares being collateral for that Crown debt.)

    In short, Winston is planning on raiding the piggy banks to spend the cash, with a promise to repay it sometime.

    [Given he has previously indicated that he will buy back the MRP shares at the original strike price, it seems fair to presume that he won't be offering much interest on the Kiwisaver funds he borrows either.]

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  60. pq (728 comments) says:

    I think the NZ NAT propagandist Farrar missed the point of what NZ First Winston Peters was saying.
    What Peters said was that

    1. Most New Zealanders did not want the asset sales of Mighty River Power
    2. Mighty River Power produces good income, that is dividend to the cynics ,otherwise why would MRP be worth anything
    3. A short term borrow by the Government into the Cullen fund or Kiwi saver could be repaid with interest in relatively short time, maybe ten years.
    4. Nationalisation is a term for taking over private property. The NZ Nat Government sold our New Zealand property back to us.
    5. Now we are going to take it back
    6. Peters will hold balance of power after next election, even though he promotes devaluation, and his superannuant voters do not appear to see how damaging that will be

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  61. Rightandleft (663 comments) says:

    This is one of the reasons I’m not in Kiwisaver, the danger some future government could just decide to nationalise it and steal my savings. Winston is proving that is actually a possibility. And Labour has already said they want to make Kiwisaver compulsory and to make it so you cannot take your Kiwisaver savings out of NZ once you retire. I can only hope Winston’s numbers stay well below 5%.

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  62. rouppe (971 comments) says:

    pq

    Mighty River Power produces good income, that is dividend

    Does it? The estimated profit of MRP for the 2013 year is $94.8 million. It is proposing a 2013 dividend of 12 cents per share. There are 686 million shares in the 49% which means there are 1,400,000,000 shares in 100%. At 12c per share that is a dividend of $168,000,000 to pay to (all) shareholders. On a profit of $94,800,000 million. See the problem? Dividends should be about 80% of profit, not 177%

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  63. Boglio (78 comments) says:

    rouppe “Dividends should be about 80% of profit, not 177%”

    Yes you can see the problem and even with using the 177% of profits the return on a share of 12c is 4.8%. Did you see the return that the Cullen fund got last year on their investments…..considerably more than that. I cannot see the fund being happy with 4.8% return on its investment especially when at 177% of profit the Government will need to dig into taxpayers pockets to keep returning interest to the fund or heaven forbid raise the price of power

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  64. Graeme2 (102 comments) says:

    Here is the best analysis I have seen to date of the cost of Shearers Power NZ policy.

    http://milfordkiwisaver.co.nz/blog/rolling-blackouts-could-be-our-future/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Milford+Blog+Release&utm_content=Milford+Blog+Release+CID_5cb0f87ccc328e2c36c0eb8695c2fc07&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_term=Click%20here%20to%20read%20more

    Shearer and Russell really are economically challenged to put it politely.

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  65. wat dabney (3,756 comments) says:

    Shearer and Russell really are economically challenged to put it politely.

    The real truth is that they’re not, they’re just willing to bankrupt and ruin the country to win power for themselves.

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  66. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    Rolling blackouts are about as much a possibility as zero point energy generators.

    scaremongering much ?

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  67. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    “Shearer and Russell really are economically challenged to put it politely.”

    Its not even Shearer, he doesn’t have the nouse to put this together, its Robertson running the labour party.

    I am presuming they’ve said, “David you get to go on the radio and TV and be leader but we run the party now bugger off until the telly rings”

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  68. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Pollywog, nice trolling, a change of tone or a bit of humour would be good though.

    But what you and your ilk are doing is ensuing that nobody will invest in shares, fuck that, lets buy houses , those “poor bastards” will be paying that much fucking rent even labour will have to sell the silver.

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  69. Nostalgia-NZ (5,202 comments) says:

    What do you think the ramifications might be PEB from a neutral point of view?

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  70. wat dabney (3,756 comments) says:

    Rolling blackouts are about as much a possibility as zero point energy generators.

    Supermarket shelves can be completely emptied in response to price controls, and people can find themselves queueing for hours to fill up with petrol for the same reason, but electricity is made for free by magical elves so no need to worry on that front.

    Thanks Polly for setting our minds at rest.

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  71. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    I forgot, silly me

    Labour will buy all the houses and all the petrol and all the food.

    Anyone who remotely supports these clowns should just be treated with contempt. The poor old party drones will be like the Horis’s thinking that there will be a trickle down effect like has happened from all the treaty settlements, ( Tui Billboard here please) they think they will have more money to spend on fags and Sky. Sorry party followers you will see nothing from this labour party they are just ensuring they have their foot on your gullible throats for your natural

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  72. wiseowl (893 comments) says:

    Hasn’t the Reserve Bank just been given the ability to raid our bank accounts if they need to?

    Key seemed pretty relaxed about it.

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  73. slijmbal (1,236 comments) says:

    “Dividends should be about 80% of profit, not 177%”

    Dividends are really a length of string type question. If an company is growing well then it should theoretically pay no dividend.

    Utility companies such as Power historically pay quite consistent and significant dividends as they tend to be consistent revenue earners. Without looking at matters such as the state of the cash book, retained profits etc. such a generalisation is of little value.

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  74. rouppe (971 comments) says:

    Utility companies such as Power historically pay quite consistent and significant dividends as they tend to be consistent revenue earners. Without looking at matters such as the state of the cash book, retained profits etc. such a generalisation is of little value.

    Revenue isn’t as important as profit, and their own reporting shows that it is quite variable. Sure you can pay more in dividend than you make in profit if you have loads of retained profits (savings). But that is a dead end street. If you continue to pay more in dividend than you earn in profit then eventually you run out of savings. That’s no way to run a company – or a country for that matter. Just ask Greece.

    However each to their own. I’ve made my decision, you are free to make yours and for each of us it is the ‘right’ decision and time will show which one of us made the best decision. However even if I haven’t made the best decision, my decision won’t lose me money. If I have made the best decision, you will have lost money.

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