Editorials on Thatcher

April 10th, 2013 at 11:00 am by David Farrar

The Dom Post editorial:

Of all the millions of words that will be written about in the coming days none will more succinctly sum up the impact of the late British prime minister than those uttered by her former press secretary Sir Bernard Ingham: “She knew what she wanted to do, and did it.”

So true.

What Baroness Thatcher will be remembered for is breaking the power of the unions, privatising British Telecom, British Gas and dozens of other publicly owned companies, going to war over the Falkland Islands and resisting Soviet expansionism.

Not a bad list.

She changed the world, too. In the 1980s, building more missile bases and condemning Soviet totalitarianism at every opportunity was viewed as dangerously provocative. But, with the benefit of hindsight, Baroness Thatcher and her closest political ally, then United States president Ronald Reagan, were indisputably right.

People forget this. Tens of millions demanded that the West basically unilaterally disarm and appease the Soviet Union.

The editorial:

Margaret Thatcher’s social views stemmed from her Christianity and a belief in the importance of individual rights. If there was nothing novel in this, nor did she invent a new economic policy. Rather, she and Ronald Reagan brought monetarism into the mainstream, with their advocacy of reduced state intervention, free markets, entrepreneurialism, less taxation, and the privatisation of state assets. The implementation of this programme was made the easier by Britain’s dire state when she claimed power. The country was commonly described as the sick man of Europe. A postwar decline had been exacerbated by the power wielded by trade unions and a general sense of despondency.

Margaret Thatcher proposed to change all of this, and she did. From 1982, Britain provided a ready canvas as it started to pull out of its worst post-World War II slump. Spurred on by her leadership and a sharp curbing of inflation and interest rates, people soon had the confidence to start their own businesses and buy shares. This sparked a high level of social mobility – and the yuppie.

With time, I think people forget how morbid the UK was in the 1970s. It was sick beyond belief.

Her uncompromising style allowed her to be outstanding in foreign as well as domestic policy, an achievement rare among politicians. In the midst of her first term, Argentina’s invasion of the Falklands provided the opportunity to establish her credentials. If Britain’s recapture of the islands was a close-run thing, it, nevertheless, occasioned a wave of patriotism, and applause for her decisiveness. In President Reagan, she found a leader who shared her view of the world. Transatlantic co-operation blossomed, especially with the taking of a sterner approach to the Soviet Union. Ultimately, this played a part in the end of the Cold War and the downfall of communism.

In 100 years time, Thatcher will be the only UK Prime Minister still talked about, post WWII. She was a force of nature.

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67 Responses to “Editorials on Thatcher”

  1. Longknives (4,962 comments) says:

    And Hamnida still argues that her death wasn’t newsworthy…

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  2. Harriet (5,201 comments) says:

    “…She was a force of nature….”

    A good old mum and dad upbringing. :cool:

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  3. nasska (12,107 comments) says:

    Yes….Margaret Thatcher pulled Britain out of its death spiral & set it on track for the 21st Century. It subsequently took years of socialist pandering to multiculturalism & EEC bureaucratic lunacy to derail the country & restart its inevitable collapse into a third world shithole.

    But full marks…..she gave it her best shot.

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  4. Harriet (5,201 comments) says:

    And seeing what Cameron was doing with the Tory party: behaving like Key by being bipartisan and weak – in other words – giving into the demands and emotionalism from the left…………Thatcher then did what Julia Gillard’s dad did – died of shame. :cool:

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  5. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    Re the Soviet missiles,the editor says “with the benefit of hindsight….T and R were indisputedly right”

    Unless you were on the Soviet side,a lackey or a complete idiot,eveyone knew the danger the Soviets posed at the time.

    “Hindsight” ,what a fucking idiot!

    And where did good old Aotearoa stand on missiles ,the Cold war,Soviet expansionism and anti Americanism?

    Yeah, that’s right and we still haven’t fucken wised up!!!!

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  6. krazykiwi (8,040 comments) says:

    New Zealand needs a Thatcher.

    Socialism is more alive here today than it was in her day. It’s just more subtle, more insidious. It’s promoted by those who lead us, rather than those who lead militant unions or communist states.

    What would she have done with our modern-day WFF, student loans, rampant welfare entitlements?

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  7. RRM (10,099 comments) says:

    Thatcher then did what Julia Gillard’s dad did – died of shame. :cool:

    Wow…

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  8. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    Thatcher’s reign perfectly illustrates why NZ should not extend its parliamentary term beyond 3 years.

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  9. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    And Hamnida still argues that her death wasn’t newsworthy…

    Oh it was newsworthy alright. There’s not many leaders who are responsible for the senseless deaths of hundreds of people. Thatcher is in a select group.

    http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Falklands/roh.html

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  10. mandk (1,032 comments) says:

    ross69
    I suspect that you would also claim that Churchill was responsible for the senseless death of millions in WWII

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  11. Bob R (1,421 comments) says:

    ***Churchill was responsible for the senseless death of millions in WWII***

    See Pat Buchanan’s “Churchill, Hitler and the Unnecessary War: How Britain Lost Its Empire and the West Lost the World”:

    “Buchanan argues that it was a great blunder on the part of Chamberlain to declare war on Germany in 1939, and an even greater blunder on the part of Churchill to refuse Hitler’s peace offer of 1940, thus making World War II in Buchanan’s opinion the “unnecessary war” of the title[23]. The title of course was borrowed from Churchill, who stated in his memoirs, “One day President Roosevelt told me that he was asking publicly for suggestions about what the war should be called. I said at once, “The Unnecessary War.” There never was a war more easy to stop than that which has just wrecked what was left of the world from the previous struggle.”[24] Buchanan writes, “For that war one man bears full moral responsibility: Hitler.” He adds, “But this was not only Hitler’s war. It was Chamberlain’s war and Churchill’s war…”[25]. In Buchanan’s view, the “final offer” made by the German Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop to the British Ambassador Sir Nevile Henderson on the night of August 30, 1939 was not a ploy as many historians argued, but instead a genuine German offer to avoid World War II[26]. Likewise, Buchanan argues, Hitler’s peace offers to Britain in the summer of 1940 were real, and Churchill was wrong to refuse them[27].

    Buchanan claims that Hitler’s ambitions were confined only to Eastern Europe, and states that Hitler wanted an anti-Soviet alliance with Britain[30]. Buchanan argues that the Holocaust only developed the scale it did because Hitler’s invasion of Poland and then Russia meant that he had within his control most European Jews, which would not have been the case otherwise. Buchanan argues that if Churchill had accepted Hitler’s peace offer of 1940, the severity of the Holocaust would have been immensely less[31] He states that Nazi Germany was not a danger to the United States at any point, nor to Britain after Germany lost the Battle of Britain[32]…

    Buchanan concludes that if World War II had not taken place, the British Empire would have continued through the twentieth century. Buchanan blames British statesmen for bringing Britain into the war against Germany, which not only caused the economic ruin of Britain but also brought Eastern Europe into the Soviet sphere of influence and brought Communism to power in China in 1949, all of which would have been avoided if only Britain had not “guaranteed” Poland in 1939[36].”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churchill,_Hitler_and_the_Unnecessary_War

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  12. Nostalgia-NZ (5,322 comments) says:

    ‘Buchanan argues that the Holocaust only developed the scale it did because Hitler’s invasion of Poland and then Russia meant that he had within his control most European Jews, which would not have been the case otherwise.’

    Hard to reconcile that argument or to suppose that Hilter could be trusted.

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  13. mandk (1,032 comments) says:

    Bob R
    You can tell a lot about a man by the company he keeps – Nixon was Buchanan’s greatest admirer.
    And the implication of the penultimate paragraph in your wikipedia extract is particularly vile. It argues that the holocaust was only as bad as it was because Chruchilll refused to buddy up with Hitler.

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  14. Bob R (1,421 comments) says:

    @ mandk

    1. Not sure what your point is. Lee Kuan Yew has probably been one of the most successful leaders in the last 50 years. He rated Nixon the best president he dealth with. See some of Ben Stein’s articles about Nixon also.

    2. Vile or not, is it correct? It may have been completely avoided eg. see the Madagascar plan.

    “Himmler discussed his proposal with Hitler of sending the Jews “to a colony in Africa or elsewhere” and Hitler responded that the plan was “very good and correct.”3

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  15. F E Smith (3,307 comments) says:

    Tens of millions demanded that the West basically unilaterally disarm and appease the Soviet Union.

    Yep, and almost all of them from the left. 

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  16. Bob R (1,421 comments) says:

    I was surprised and amused to find Christopher Hitchens was a fan (this at a time when he was very much to the left). From Hitch 22:

    “Care to meet the new leader?” Who could refuse? Within moments, Margaret Thatcher and I were face to face.

    Within moments, too, I had turned away and was showing her my buttocks. I suppose that I must give some sort of explanation for this. Almost as soon as we shook hands on immediate introduction, I felt that she knew my name and had perhaps connected it to the socialist weekly that had recently called her rather sexy. While she struggled adorably with this moment of pretty confusion, I felt obliged to seek controversy and picked a fight with her on a detail of Rhodesia/Zimbabwe policy. She took me up on it. I was (as it chances) right on the small point of fact, and she was wrong. But she maintained her wrongness with such adamantine strength that I eventually conceded the point and bowed slightly to emphasize my acknowledgement. “No,” she said. “Bow lower!” Smiling agreeably, I bent forward a bit farther. “No, no,” she trilled. “Much lower!” By this time a little group of interested bystanders was gathering. I again bent forward, this time much more self-consciously. Stepping around behind me, she unmasked her batteries and smote me on the rear with the parliamentary order-paper that she had been rolling into a cylinder behind her back. I regained the vertical with some awkwardness. As she walked away, she looked back over her shoulder and gave an almost imperceptibly slight roll of the hip while mouthing the words: “Naughty boy!” ….

    I had and have eyewitness to this. At the time, though, I hardly believed it myself. It is only from a later perspective, looking back on the manner in which she slaughtered and cowed all the former male leadership of her party and replaced them with pliant tools, that I appreciate the premonitory glimpse—of what someone in another context once called “the smack of firm government”—that I had once been afforded. Even at the time, as I left that party, I knew I had met someone rather impressive. And the worst of “Thatcherism,” as I was beginning by degrees to discover, was the rodent slowly stirring in my viscera: the uneasy but unbanishable feeling that on some essential matters she might be right.”

    http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/04/that-time-margaret-thatcher-spanked-christopher-hitchens/274779/

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  17. mandk (1,032 comments) says:

    “Himmler discussed his proposal with Hitler of sending the Jews “to a colony in Africa or elsewhere” and Hitler responded that the plan was “very good and correct.”3
    This is beginning to look like revisionism.
    That’s not what happened, is it?

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  18. flipper (4,332 comments) says:

    Very easy to “argue”, on spurious grounds, against Thatcher so many years later.
    Much harder to be correct.
    Yeltsin and Gorbachev have been quoted as saying that the two most influential western figures post Stalin were Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher.

    M. Thatcher was no “grocer’s daughter”.
    Well, she was actually, but a first class degree from Oxford changed that.

    Her demolition of Haig over the Falkland / Hawaiian Islands will be her benchmark in history, whatever one’s views on Thatcher. Not un expectedly, the arseholes at TV1 could not resist puttying ex UK Labour MP/academic (well, low grade and of debatable intellect. ), Gould on last night to “denigrate” Thatcher, and “balance” the praise being delivered in her memory.

    Lord save us from the over educated band of highly intellectual left wing scribblers that in habit TVNZ and TV3.

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  19. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    I guess Thatcher was OK, if you weren’t:

    (a) Irish
    (b) Gay
    (c) Working class
    (d) Living North of the Watford Gap
    (e) anti-apartheid
    (f) A Chilean democracy activist
    (g) a football fan

    She was a horrible cow who set Britons against each other and frittered away billions in oil wealth. I see that the football league isn’t going to have a minutes silence for her, because they know what fans will do.

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  20. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    tom jackarse

    Only bitter and twisted ,murderous Republican Irish.

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  21. cha (4,144 comments) says:

    because they know what fans will do.

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  22. Bob R (1,421 comments) says:

    @ mandk,

    Well if you look at alternative scenarios of course you’re looking at things that didn’t happen. It was a serious plan that was approved in May 1940 (see p229 Niewyk and Nicosia 2012 The plan apparently became unfeasible after Germany lost the battle of Britain.

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  23. dime (10,215 comments) says:

    you seem a touch bitter tom lmao

    what a loser you are.

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  24. simonway (387 comments) says:

    Clement Attlee will be remembered in 100 years.

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  25. Bob R (1,421 comments) says:

    @ Simonway,

    Not in a good way.

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  26. F E Smith (3,307 comments) says:

    The Left at its most honest: shops vandalised, police officers attacked, and bile, hatred and churlishness expressed at the death of an opponent. 

    Never again let the left wing claim to be compassionate and caring, inclusive and tolerant.  That is only when they get their own way.  Otherwise they are nasty, spiteful and abusive.  They may not bomb and murder as often these days, although even that hasn’t disappeared, but the tendencies are still there.

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  27. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    simonway: First name “simple” by any chance? Clement bloody Atlee? Remembered for what pray? I can’t remember anything about him now, except his name…

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  28. RRM (10,099 comments) says:

    The Left at its most honest: shops vandalised, police officers attacked, and bile, hatred and churlishness expressed at the death of an opponent.

    That’s a pretty blunt generalisation chap. Surprising as I’ve enjoyed a lot of your very informative posts on legal matters. I think I’ll probably have to take a little more salt with those when I read them now…

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  29. OneTrack (3,372 comments) says:

    RRM – so someone has written something you don’t agree with, and he goes on the blacklist? Is he an “enemy of the people”, because he said something you don’t like (a la the Mad Butcher ie says he thinks Key is a nice guy and the left (Labour party MP no less) immediately disown him and do their best to put him out of business)?

    I think FE Smith has a strong point – a characteristic of the left is bile, hatred and churlishness, especially when you don’t agree with them.

    Thanks for illustrating that so well for all the readers.

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  30. RRM (10,099 comments) says:

    RRM – so someone has written something you don’t agree with, and he goes on the blacklist?

    :roll: Sigh – can’t you read?

    Here’s a hint: I said something about a blunt generalisation. In my very first sentence even! Take another look…

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  31. dime (10,215 comments) says:

    RRM – dont you find it interesting that riots tend to be caused by leftists? usually the ones wanting free shit.

    im not saying the right are perfect, but the right generally speak out against those who do bad shit.

    the left just remain silent. or try the old “well back in the 50s right wingers blah blah”

    a shit head is a shit head

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  32. James Stephenson (2,268 comments) says:

    Remembered for what pray?

    The NHS was created by his administration, even if it was his Health Minister, Bevan who generally gets the “credit”. I think the Iraq war will ensure that Bliar’s name doesn’t fade from history.

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  33. flipper (4,332 comments) says:

    David G…
    Quite agree.
    Some other folk need to spend a few hours in post WW2 history 101.

    Atlee…
    Will be remembered for his inferential support of Hitler pre Chamberlain and Munich, his support of Churchill when it was apparent that he had no alternative, and his destruction of the British economy, post 1945.
    Just a socialist dumbass…… like all those who rejoice in Maggie’s passing.

    If anyone is to blame for the UK’s economic failure post Atlee it was Heath. This smart ass came to NZ and conned Jack Marshall/Holyoake et al over the EEC. It took us years (and SMP’s + R. Douglas'; medcine) to recover.

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  34. RRM (10,099 comments) says:

    So when Graham Capill was in the dock for his sentencing… If I’d come on here and said that was “the right at its most honest… rapist, lying pedophile hypocrites…” you wouldn’t have a problem with that Dime?

    I’m not saying there’s anything right or good about having a “Yay! Thatcher’s Dead!” party/riot in the street.

    OF COURSE it’s left types who are doing this.
    But I’m a left type, I’m not celebrating her death, or smashing shops, or assaulting cops.
    Shit generalisations about THE LEFT are not really very helpful…

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  35. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Ham sandwich must be busy with other things…(let’s be charitable)…

    RRM: You’re alright for a leftie mate….in fact I think you are really one of us, you just can’t quite bring yourself to admit it…to yourself…you are very sound on violent crims (15 second strikers now, all violent low lifes)

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  36. dime (10,215 comments) says:

    everyone generalises.

    in your original post, i didn’t see you say:

    “That’s a pretty blunt generalisation chap. Surprising as I’ve enjoyed a lot of your very informative posts on legal matters. I think I’ll probably have to take a little more salt with those when I read them now…

    dont get me wrong, these rioters are a low life scum”

    also, not wanting to put words in mouths but generally i think when we say left we mean far left. (unless your redbaiter)

    if we do mean far left then i dont think its a generalisation. i think most of them are nasty little fuckers. eg losers like tom jackson.

    its funny how there is a lot of hate from people who were barely alive when she was in power. makes them look like stupid ideologues.

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  37. RRM (10,099 comments) says:

    True, elsewhere FES did mention “the left wing”… maybe that’s what he meant.

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  38. dime (10,215 comments) says:

    has anyone put together a list of well known lefties condemning the riot? showing disgust at people throwing parties to celebrate someones death.

    all while thinking they monopolise good will towards all mankind and all that shit.

    the caring lefty is a myth

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  39. F E Smith (3,307 comments) says:

    RRM,

    While I fail to see how my views on the general nature of the Left wing can substantively taint what I say on legal matters, that is your call.

    In the interests of full disclosure, I also don’t like Brussels Sprouts, so you can factor that in as well.

     So when Graham Capill was in the dock for his sentencing… If I’d come on here and said that was “the right at its most honest… rapist, lying pedophile hypocrites…”

    No, because you would be wrong in making such a generalisation based upon one person’s actions.

    I make my generalisation (and there are always exceptions to generalisations, of course) based upon 221 years of regular left wing violence (since the French Revolution).  That violence is still seen today when self-proclaimed Anarchists riot at G8/10/Similar summits/conferences, or set bombs in Turkey, or create a culture in academia where non-left wing academics are disadvanted significantly if they speak up.

    The actions of those who celebrate the death of Baroness Thatcher are despicable, mysognist (using the Australian political definition of that word) and, above all, revealing.

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  40. F E Smith (3,307 comments) says:

    James Stephenson,

    considering the absolutely appalling state of the NHS today, being the creator of it is no claim to fame. I suspect that is a situation where Attlee, if he were alive today, would say “It was Anuerin Bevan, not me, who did it”.

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  41. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    FES: NO Sir..I wont have that! Brussels sprouts are among the finest brassicas available for a man’s winter table….

    Obviously you have finished representing today’s parade of victims of colonization?

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  42. gump (1,685 comments) says:

    @krazykiwi

    “New Zealand needs a Thatcher. ”

    ————————–

    We already had our own Thatcher. She was called Helen Clark.

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  43. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    gump:
    Clark was to Thatcher was Hitler was to Churchill.

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  44. Nick R (522 comments) says:

    I was raised in Britain and lived there throughout the Thatcher era – I was 14 when she was first elected. I’m not celebrating her death, but some of the homilies by those who mourn her stick in my throat. They don’t describe my experience. I lived in Bristol and Sheffield in the 80’s, as well as Somerset. The contempt for her in Yorkshire in particular was visceral, and she wouldn’t have been welcome in much of Bristol either. For everyone who claims she rescued Britain, I can only say that in my life I never saw people begging in the streets before Thatcher was elected. Of course nobody could say she wanted that or personally made it happen. But it did happen.

    The truth is that Thatcher was never universally loved, and those who insist on her greatness should reflect on why (for example) she presided over the collapse of the Conservative/Unionist Party in Scotland, Ireland and Wales. There will soon be a referendum in Scotland to dissolve the Union and win or lose I think that can be seen at least in part as a legacy of the Thatcher years. They are refusing to fly flags at half mast outside the Scottish Assembly and there will no minute’s silence at football matches this week. I think this conspicuous refusal to mourn may be annoying some on the right more than tasteless street parties or drunken riots. Although rioting in the streets is a very longstanding British way of marking special occasions.

    Oh and dime – I think Ed Milliband has condemned the rioting. As do I. So that’s two names for your list.

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  45. simonway (387 comments) says:

    Attlee presided over the construction of much of the modern British welfare state. If you don’t think that’s significant, then you are definitely ‘simple’. Like FDR and Michael Joseph Savage, his achievements have assured his place in the history books. Hell, Tommy Douglas is remembered in Canada and he was never even in federal government.

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  46. dime (10,215 comments) says:

    Nick R – the medicine isnt always easy to swallow.

    unfortunately the left just keep chipping away until they reach breaking point. then a bunch of poor people suffer… and its never the lefts fault..

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  47. RRM (10,099 comments) says:

    Curious, when Minto talks about how no-one should earn more than $200k, if you go to a left wing site where they’re discussing it some of their rhetoric is similar – bitter medicine for the good of the country is fine, so long as someone else swallows it not me…

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  48. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    cha’s video of the football fans chanting says more about the average IQ of Labour supporters than anything else.

    what a bunch of ignorant fucking morons.

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  49. calendar girl (1,259 comments) says:

    Nick R: It seems that much of your direct experience of Thatcherism was in your teens. It’s not common for one’s political understanding, views and judgments to have matured at such a young age. In your case they may have, but probably only if you were rather precocious or strongly indoctrinated. I’ve seen people begging in the streets of NZ cities during the Prime Ministerial terms of both Helen Clark and John Key, but I don’t view that phenomenon particularly as representing the policies of either.

    However, I do welcome your reference to “tasteless street parties or drunken riots” following Margaret Thatcher’s death.

    You’re right – Ed Milliband has condemned the street celebrations on Mrs Thatcher’s death, and so has Tony Blair. Regardless of the alleged “very longstanding British way of marking special occasions”, as you put it (but I doubt its relevance in this context), that’s as it should be in a civilised democracy.

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  50. James Stephenson (2,268 comments) says:

    @FES – you only have to look back at the Olympics opening ceremony to see the significance that the NHS has for a lot of my fellow Pomgolians…I, on the other hand, wholeheartedly agree with you, hence the use of the inverted commas around “credit”.

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  51. dime (10,215 comments) says:

    “Curious, when Minto talks about how no-one should earn more than $200k, if you go to a left wing site where they’re discussing it some of their rhetoric is similar – bitter medicine for the good of the country is fine, so long as someone else swallows it not me…”

    no RRM, as long as it makes economic sense.

    eg i supported the introduction of student loans, even though it cost me a fortune. i wasnt upset when Key cancelled my last tax cut either.

    do you need an economics lesson as to what would happen if there was a limit on what one could earn? i dont think you do. youre smarter than that.

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  52. Kimble (3,955 comments) says:

    For everyone who claims she rescued Britain, I can only say that in my life I never saw people begging in the streets before Thatcher was elected.

    So that means she didn’t rescue Britain? Your statement is non-nonsensical. What is your counter-factual? That Britain was just fine and could carry on the way it was?

    When resources have been misdirected for decades there will always be hardship when they are then appropriately directed. The longer it went on, the worse it would be. The people relying on the dead industries in Britain were the last of their breed and the least capable or willing to deal with change.

    I look back on those protests and think, that’s pathetic. I don’t see people valiantly trying to right a wrong. I see people demanding simply that the status quo that served them well be maintained and damn the expense. So the narrative that paints Thatcher as a mean actor doesn’t resonate at all.

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  53. Nick R (522 comments) says:

    Calendar girl – You can speculate about my precocity and indoctrination if you like. Perhaps you know more about those things than I do.

    But I was there. And I can say that I saw Britain change and that not all of it was good and that not everyone liked it or welcomed it. Or voted for it.

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  54. slijmbal (1,236 comments) says:

    @Nick R

    I grew up in the North of England, working class and am older than you and lived through the problems pre-Thatcher. The UK was going to hell in a basket really quickly. I saw beggars pre-Thatcher, which was weird as the welfare state was pretty easy to suck from from the 70s until quite recently. As I said yesterday she did what was needed but feel it was done over brutally. My home town of Liverpool was practically gutted in the process. But lets be clear – if she hadn’t done what she did the end result would have been a lot worse.

    Many hate her and with some cause because how what she did affected them but she was definitely something special.

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  55. Bob R (1,421 comments) says:

    @ simonway,

    The man behind the modern British welfare state was Sir William Beveridge and never intended it to expand to the extent it has. He, along with the likes of John Maynard Keynes, also thought that long term beneficiaries should be sterilised. They would be turning in their graves over the Philpott case.

    Attlee also oversaw the Commonwealth Immigration Act didn’t he? Which appears on track to turn white Britains into a minority group in their own country & sharia law to become commonplace. Usually you need an invasion for that to happen, not your own leaders.

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  56. axeman (252 comments) says:

    Nick R (357) Says: April 10th, 2013 at 2:50 pm …
    “I lived in Bristol and Sheffield in the 80′s, as well as Somerset. The contempt for her in Yorkshire in particular was visceral, and she wouldn’t have been welcome in much of Bristol either.”

    http://www.thecommentator.com/article/1497/thatcher_s_achievements_will_long_outlive_the_spite_of_sheffield_s_sons_and_daughters

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  57. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    yes the Beveridge report.

    People forget Churchill was in favour of the new welfare measures but his govt didn’t get the “credit” as a Labour administration won the GE in 1945 that was promised to be held once Germany was defeated.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beveridge_Report

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  58. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    Never again let the left wing claim to be compassionate and caring, inclusive and tolerant.

    I didn’t think you were into faux outrage, FES. :)

    I suggest you read this opinion piece. Sums up Thatcher very well.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10876576

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  59. calendar girl (1,259 comments) says:

    “But I was there. And I can say that I saw Britain change and that not all of it was good and that not everyone liked it or welcomed it. Or voted for it.”

    You won’t have any disagreement with me on any of that; I spent plenty of time there as well.

    But you do appear much more negative (than implied in your latest statement) on the changes that Margaret Thatcher presided over. Earlier, you seemed to be attributing begging in the street to Thatcher herself. Then you blamed Thatcher for the disillusionment of Scots with governance from London. Your problem seems to be specifically anti-Thatcher, some of it grasping at straws in my view.

    With the benefit of hindsight, it’s not difficult to also credit Thatcher with positive, long-term achievements of some importance for Britain and its economy. And it shouldn’t be difficult to stand back (as you have done) from the “dancing on her grave” actions of dyed-in-the-wool hoons.

    As for the Scots’ forthcoming referendum on the shape of the Union, any decision by Scottish voters to become fully independent will do more than any other single action to entrench a Conservative hold on Westminster, at least for the foreseeable future. Just look at the voting patterns in Scotland in the UK’s last General Election. I do wonder how they are likely to reflect on the wisdom of that in due course.

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  60. axeman (252 comments) says:

    And ross69, I suggest that you read this opinion piece. Sums up the modern left very well

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100211120/anti-thatcher-animus-speaks-volumes-about-the-isolation-and-insignificance-of-the-modern-left/

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  61. F E Smith (3,307 comments) says:

    Well said, axeman.

    James Stephenson: the UK Labour Party was very happy with the opening ceremony to the Olympics, considering it a grand advertisement for their policies. The Tories got shafted on that one, they did. But anybody who doesn’t realise that the NHS is not just sick but is in fact dead just isn’t aware of what actually goes on in the NHS and its system. Sadly, that group of people includes many of the British political class.

    David Garrett: Sorry, I just cannot accept that there is any possible explanation for Brussels Sprouts other than Nature being wontonly cruel to us! :D

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  62. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    If there was one symptom to point to as evidence of the Herald’s sad decline from Journal of Record to a rag, it is the regular opinion pieces by Bryan Gould they run. The man is not even a has been; he is a “never was” politician from the looney left period of British politics who failed in his bid to lead the Labour Party further down the unelectable path they were following. FFS even Professor Sir Geoffrey would have a more cogent take on Thatcher from a left wing perspective, and that’s bloody saying something….

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  63. bhudson (4,741 comments) says:

    The only ‘crimes’ Dame Margaret Thatcher was guilty of were:

    1. The position that individuals are personally responsible;
    2. That they should have the freedoms to exercise those responsibilities; and,
    3. That they are accountable for their exercise of those freedoms.

    Some prefer everything to be someone else’s fault.

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  64. slijmbal (1,236 comments) says:

    I cannot help but feel that Thatcher would have felt that some of more bitter and nasty reactions to her death probably meant she succeeded at what she meant to do.

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  65. axeman (252 comments) says:

    slijmbal

    “I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.”

    Margaret Thatcher

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  66. slijmbal (1,236 comments) says:

    @ross

    “I suggest you read this opinion piece. Sums up Thatcher very well.”

    Utter bollocks – Owen Jones is a very left wing commentator who was not even born when Thatcher was voted in.

    It does sum up the hard left view of Thatcher extremely well.

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  67. Reid (16,719 comments) says:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2306564/Margaret-Thatcher-Public-anger-BBC-bias-Viewers-hit-lengthy-coverage-poll-tax-miners-strike.html?ICO=most_read_module

    Lefties. Aren’t they scum.

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