Now we know what the Greens mean by Green jobs!

April 12th, 2013 at 12:00 pm by David Farrar

TVNZ reports:

’s claim that Maori growing marijuana are developing entrepreneurial and horticultural skills has been slammed as “mind-blowingly ridiculous” by Associate Health Minister .

The Green Party co-leader made the comment on Maori TV’s Native Affairs programmethis week, but she has been cut down by Dunne, who branded the claim as “ridiculous” and “irresponsible in the extreme”.

In the show, Turei said growing the illegal drug helps develop “real skills” among Maori, particularly in disadvantaged areas.

This is what you have to look forward to if there is a change of government. I wonder if you will be able to apply for an entrepreneurial grant to help pay for your plantation?

He said her claims that growing cannabis could teach people much-needed skills, was akin to saying “a safe cracker is teaching his apprentice engineering skills”.

Peter Dunne is talking common sense on this. I actually support a change to our drug laws, but the last thing you want is MPs praising drug dealers as entrepreneurs.

However, Labour’s social development spokesperson said Turei’s comments highlighted the difficult situation many families find themselves in New Zealand.

Oh, Good God.

Incidentally the video clip used by TVNZ appears to be taken from the Whale Oil blog You Tube channel, without attribution!

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89 Responses to “Now we know what the Greens mean by Green jobs!”

  1. Graeme Edgeler (3,280 comments) says:

    Someone from Maori TV was complaining about the TVNZ story on Twitter yesterday evening, pointing out that the comments had been completely taken out of context.

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  2. lastmanstanding (1,265 comments) says:

    Re Jacinda Ardern to quote Mandy Rice Davis “Well she would say that wouldn’t she”

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  3. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    That explains why Griff supports the Greens and AGW! Pass the joint.

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  4. Cunningham (836 comments) says:

    My god this is a new low. The MSM should be all over this yet I bet it doesn’t even get a mention. What a complete joke.

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  5. graham (2,326 comments) says:

    Hmm. Having skimmed through the clip, I can *sort of* see the point that the comments have been taken out of context. But not by much!

    It was actually the commentator who said that Maori living in high unemployment areas are keeping the whanau fed through their horticultural skills. And then went on to say that Metiria Turei believes that Maori who are struggling economically shouldn’t be punished for their entrepreneurship.

    Metiria herself actually said that it has become an income supplement, and that the Government has to be careful how they manage it; she then went on to say there are entrepreneurial and horticultural skills there.

    This was around the 3 minute 50 second mark – I haven’t watched all of the clip.

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  6. Reid (16,181 comments) says:

    Someone from Maori TV was complaining about the TVNZ story on Twitter yesterday evening, pointing out that the comments had been completely taken out of context.

    Sadly Graeme I don’t think any context could possibly justify them, just exactly precisely the same as that US politician who made the comment about rape which was condemned by every US politician across the spectrum and (I think) saw him lose his seat.

    Simply put: If you’re a politician there are some things you just don’t ever say under any circumstance, and this was one of those.

    But having said that, I’m not at all surprised Metewia did say that, after all, it’s merely reflecting her thinking processes which like the thinking processes of all Gweenies, don’t involve interaction with reality on a daily basis.

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  7. Pete George (23,422 comments) says:

    A comment from Te Ropu Whariki on Facebook:

    Anyone who watches the clip can clearly hear how this statement has been taken out of context. Growing ANYTHING requires a certain set of skills as any gardener/horticulturalist/permaculture advocate will tell you. To assert as TVNZ did (surprise surprise) that acknowledging that skill set as somehow endorsing or encouraging growing weed is facetious to say the least.

    Have to see it to judge it, but oddly the video doesn’t seem to available on Maori Television website yet.

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  8. RRM (9,769 comments) says:

    Some mates of mine recently moved out of a place they were renting in blockhouse bay.

    When they first moved into that place, in the garage there were 12/ powerpoints on each side wall giving a total of 24.
    One of them had a 4-way multi board still plugged into it with the word “Plants” written on it in black vivid.

    Given the power circuit to the garage would have been all standard 10A wiring it is a miracle the place didn’t burn down under the current demand of what could have been up to 24 x 12 = 288 incandescent heat lamps @ 200w, drawing 250A continuously. Presumably the fuse had been replaced with a nail or similar…

    Based on Turei’s comments this sort of thing is Maori electrical work. Chur!

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  9. RRM (9,769 comments) says:

    I actually support a change to our drug laws, but the last thing you want is MPs praising drug dealers as entrepreneurs.

    You can’t have it both ways DPF!

    Either… it’s a banned substance and those growing it are criminals… OR… it’s a perfectly legal substance and those growing it are entepreneurs.

    [DPF: While it is a banned substance, MPs should not talk about people breaking the law in a way that appears to condone breaking the law, by calling them entrepreneurs.

    If the law changes, then that is different. We should aim to repeal or amend stupid laws, not break them]

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  10. dime (9,792 comments) says:

    “the whanau fed through their horticultural skills.” – fuck i hate that word. whanau. you mean family.

    this “anarchist” (what a fucking joke) is a fucking joke.

    IMHO maori who grow dope and sell it should be known as uncle toms :)

    keeping their fellow maori down. which i guess is what they did for hundreds of years before evil whitey arrived and maori history was rewritten. just a noble people..

    of course dunne is against it. the only legal high should be fine wine, paid for by the tax payer.

    all crims have entrepreneurial skills. its just the policies of the left that keep them in poverty and tell them over and over they arent good enough to make it without help.

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  11. mandk (945 comments) says:

    and she would also say that encouraging poor people to grow veges and giving them some tools would be a heartless act, intended to stigmatise them

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  12. Rob Ueberfeldt (1 comment) says:

    Some people will never accept any drug law which empowers the poor. Even taken out of context what Metiria says makes sense. People that can convert cars can be retrained as mechanics, people that hack maliciously can become computer programers. Prison rehabilitation schemes often focus on skills that have been abused to try and find a positive outcomes. Would white collar criminals be dissuaded from seeking higher education?

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  13. labrator (1,892 comments) says:

    If growing dope was legal, these back block “entrepreneurs” wouldn’t have a chance of competing with people that actually have horticultural skills.

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  14. kowtow (8,135 comments) says:

    Our host supports a change to the drug laws?

    Oh well once the homo marriage thing goes through we can expect lots of support for yet another Opposition members’ private bill.

    Progressives!

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  15. nandor tanczos (77 comments) says:

    It’s a pretty simple point – people who grow cannabis commercially very obviously have high quality horticultural skills. Those skills could be put to use in legitimate businesses (such as hemp farming). Having a criminal conviction bars them from getting a license to grow hemp. It also hinders them from getting the few other legitimate jobs available in the North. We should recognise those skills and make use of them rather than doing everything we can to demonise such people (whose crime is simply to grow flowers for a voracious market). That seems an entirely appropriate kind of comment to make. As usual Dunne deliberately misunderstands the point to score cheap points. I’m surprised to see you, DPF, join in his absurdity. However, I’m not surprised to see the usual inane, toxic and irrelevant comments from your fan club, the ones by Mandk and Dime above being particularly good examples.

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  16. RightNow (6,965 comments) says:

    There’s a range of criminal activities that could be said to foster skills with parallels in legitimate activities Nandor, that doesn’t mean we should encourage them or turn a blind eye to their illegal nature.

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  17. Cactus Kate (549 comments) says:

    Someone give her a copy of Breaking Bad so she can opine on Maori chemists.
    They’d be in line for Entrepreneur of the Year.

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  18. dime (9,792 comments) says:

    “It’s a pretty simple point – people who grow cannabis commercially very obviously have high quality horticultural skills.” – BAHAHAHA yeah man. they are “commercial” growers. its not hard growing dope.

    “Having a criminal conviction bars them from getting a license to grow hemp.” – it does? that doesnt sound fair wah wah wah its the governments fault.

    “It also hinders them from getting the few other legitimate jobs available in the North.” – and god forbid they have to move. i suspect most employers will over look a few convictions if youre a good bugger and prepared to work.

    “We should recognise those skills and make use of them rather than doing everything we can to demonise such people (whose crime is simply to grow flowers for a voracious market). ” – are you taking the piss? whos crime is simply to grow illegal narcotics, sell them to down on their luck people who end up stuck in a miserable existence.

    “As usual Dunne deliberately misunderstands the point to score cheap points. ” – as dunnes number one fan i have to disagree. i mentioned this to the people in the lunchroom today. all were mortified a member of parliament would say such a thing.

    “Dime above being particularly good examples.” – id rather be an example of that than a discard from the green party! jesus! if i ever get replaced by a lisping ginga, please shoot me.

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  19. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Manolo (9,472) Says:
    April 12th, 2013 at 12:12 pm
    That explains why Griff supports the Greens and AGW! Pass the joint.

    I wonder where our drug addled friend has gone ? Maybe this years harvest was a bit bigger and he was denied bail. Or perhaps having all those former alarmists now telling the truth, has sent him into spiral of drugs and social withdrawal.

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  20. graham (2,326 comments) says:

    nandor – If these people don’t want to be hindered with a criminal conviction, the answer is simple.

    Don’t commit a crime.

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  21. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    nandor tanczos (76) Says:

    April 12th, 2013 at 1:07 pm
    …….people who grow cannabis commercially very obviously have high quality horticultural skills.Those skills could be put to use in legitimate businesses (such as hemp farming

    I really thought you may have grown out of this infantile mind set that stopped you reaching anything like your potential in Parliament.

    If their skills are so advanced they would have no problem finding legitimate employment. I know several commercial growers , most of them aren’t bad guys but their basic flaw is they are fucking lazy. They want to crop and spend the rest of the year fishing and hunting.

    For a MP to give voice to athought like she did in the bath is bad enough but to do so in a public forum is retarded. All its doing to giving a seal of approval to those living this life style. Having spent the last 15 years living in a small rural community where the biggist problem is trying to stop young people becoming everyday smokers I can tell you the last thing they need to hear is rubbish like this from Turei.

    And if you think that little Rangi is developing his entrepurnerial skills by flicking off a few foils, you are wrong again. Little Rangi is flicking off a few foils for Big Rangi or he gets a hiding and he probably gets paid with dope rather than cash, so apart from a stupid comment its wrong to boot.

    There are lots of talented kids out there they don’t need to hear that perhaps breaking the law can teach them things FFS

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  22. Cunningham (836 comments) says:

    Imagine the PM said it! He would be torn apart by the media and opposition yet this stupid women can say what she wants and the public probably won’t see it on any news program or MSM news site. Makes me sick.

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  23. mandk (945 comments) says:

    I’m proud to be vilified by Nandor Tanczos.
    It’s made my day!

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  24. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    My position is that Maori should be allowed to grow dope, along with everyone else who wants to. It is none of the governments business and everyone who wants to smoke is already doing it.

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  25. Cunningham (836 comments) says:

    Kea I saw plenty of ppl at school who were bright and then got into weed and just fucking gave up on life. I don’t feel comfortable opening the floodgates and encouraging more ppl to do this.

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  26. mandk (945 comments) says:

    Kea,

    But it is the government’s business because growing and smoking dope is associated with harmful social effects (see Cunningham above).

    You could equally argue that people should be allowed to steal from one another. After all, condemning theft merely imposes outmoded Judeo-Christian values on people. Besides, anyone who wants to steal is already doing it.

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  27. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Cunningham,

    Gave up on life? You mean like Richard Branson?

    That’s the problem with anecdotes… everyone has them. :)

    I saw plenty of kids develop an alcohol addiction… they didn’t seem to be going anywhere either.

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  28. dime (9,792 comments) says:

    cunningham – i had the same experience. but debating that with smokers is like debating religion or the bain case

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  29. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    mandk (80) Says:
    April 12th, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    Kea,

    But it is the government’s business because growing and smoking dope is associated with harmful social effects

    So is religion… should we ban that too?

    How about you address the actual harmful behavior rather than condemning an entire group because of the misdeeds of a few. Or should we ban alcohol because of those who get drunk and abuse their families?

    It is the government’s business I agree. But that involvement should be reasonable rather than imprisonment for people who have not actually harmed anyone else.

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  30. All_on_Red (1,548 comments) says:

    In Northland there are lots of jobs which cant be filled. Why?, because to get the job you need to pass a drugs test and most fail.
    Do you really want your mate operating a log skidder when hes fucked up out of his tiny mind?
    I bet Richard Bransons pilots at Virgin aren’t dope smokers either.

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  31. simian (29 comments) says:

    This is a bit of a beat up really, do people running criminal businesses not have entrepreneurial skills?  Remember they won’t have gotten any grants or government assistance in starting their business, as long as they are actually running it well then they do have those skills (obviously many don’t because they get caught!).  To say this doesn’t mean you are legitimizing what they are doing just stating facts. I can say they have good business skills but they should put it into legitimate business enterprise instead.  What they are doing is really pure capitalism!

    Also if you think her saying this is bad then you should also be complaining about the government taxing this kind of income!  IRD have an area of the dept that’s sole responsibility is to deal with illegal income and any information criminals provide will not be passed to police due to the secrecy provisions.  In fact there has been a media release recently about trying to remove some secrecy provisions to allow them to pass this information on (which I think is stupid as it will just mean that criminals won’t talk to IRD and won’t pay tax so the government just loses income that could be used to fund police to catch those criminals, catch 22!).

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  32. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    [DPF: While it is a banned substance, MPs should not talk about people breaking the law in a way that appears to condone breaking the law, by calling them entrepreneurs.

    If the law changes, then that is different. We should aim to repeal or amend stupid laws, not break them]

    So if a stupid law existed such that it banned being a Christian should all Christians renounce their faith until the law is amended?

    Perhaps some laws are more stupid than others… but this of course means that there is no principled position here, just a subjective judgment about what should be promoted and what shouldn’t.

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  33. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    All_on_Red (300) Says:
    April 12th, 2013 at 2:10 pm

    I bet Richard Bransons pilots at Virgin aren’t dope smokers either.

    Probably just alcoholics like most pilots. :)

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  34. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    All_on_Red (300) Says:
    April 12th, 2013 at 2:10 pm

    In Northland there are lots of jobs which cant be filled. Why?, because to get the job you need to pass a drugs test and most fail.
    Do you really want your mate operating a log skidder when hes fucked up out of his tiny mind?

    Nope, but if he did it on the weekend couldn’t care less. But people who are unemployed shouldn’t need the luxury of mind altering substances whether legal or illegal.

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  35. kowtow (8,135 comments) says:

    If these skilled “horticulturalists” can’t get “legitimate” jobs as the ex green MP calls them,then let them do what their ancestors and ours did.Get off your bum and migrate.No ocean crossing this time,just go down the road.We’re bringing in gangs of Islanders to do genuine hort work,why can’t these “experts” do the same.

    Stop making excuses for criminality and continuously blaming external factors (lack of jobs or education) for personal failings and lack of responsibilty of the circumstances we find ourselves in!

    I’m not surprised to see such shallow ,poor thinking and plainly stupid comments coming from a leftist ex MP.

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  36. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    dime (5,920) Says:
    April 12th, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    cunningham – i had the same experience. but debating that with smokers is like debating religion or the bain case

    … or gay marriage, or the minimum wage, or privatization, or…….

    Has any debate ever resulted in someone saying “Actually Dime, you make a good point, my position is clearly untenable and I have been bested by superior argument and/or facts.”

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  37. mandk (945 comments) says:

    Weihana,
    So what you are actually saying is that growing and smoking dope does not harm anyone.
    It ‘s that sort of mindset that contributes to poor educational performance, child neglect and inability to work. And it seems to be disproportionately Maori who are affected.

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  38. nasska (11,086 comments) says:

    The laws that criminalise marijuana growing & use are effectively anti nuisance legislation used in a way similar to vagrancy or prostitution laws in days gone by to hassle & move on undesirables. As such only the most rabid & idealistic legislators or police entertain the notion that the statutes make a blind bit of difference to what people actually do.

    A bad law is a law that is ignored & no laws in the country are more ignored than those dealing with supply & use of recreational drugs.

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  39. dime (9,792 comments) says:

    gee, weihana loves pot. i am shocked.

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  40. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    mandk (81) Says:
    April 12th, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    Weihana,
    So what you are actually saying is that growing and smoking dope does not harm anyone.

    I am saying that an individual can consume marijuana for recreation whilst maintaining stable employment and not imposing upon others.

    It ‘s that sort of mindset that contributes to poor educational performance, child neglect and inability to work. And it seems to be disproportionately Maori who are affected.

    So if I drink a beer after work thinking I am not harming anyone else is my mindset contributing to the guy down the road who abuses his family when he gets drunk?

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  41. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    dime (5,921) Says:
    April 12th, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    gee, weihana loves pot. i am shocked.

    I’m sorry, was that an argument? :)

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  42. dime (9,792 comments) says:

    Pot smokers are like AMWAY people. They love to tell you how “successful people are into it! lawyers! accountants!”

    Id love to know the real percentage of daily pot smokers that arent pieces of shit.

    sure, if youre the one in 20 that has a job and is a net tax payer, do what you want. but the reality is, most arent net tax payers. so screw em.

    and yes, alcohol is bad wah wah wah not really a sound argument to introduce something else that is bad.

    also, pot smokers are gross. its a dirty drug. they stink. they have bongs. they are into conspiracy theories. they are arrogant cause they “know things”.

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  43. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    mandk (81) Says:
    April 12th, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    And it seems to be disproportionately Maori who are affected.

    Actually there isn’t that much difference in actual usage.

    http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CD8QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.health.govt.nz%2Fsystem%2Ffiles%2Fdocuments%2Fpublications%2Fdrug-use-in-nz-v2-jan2010.pdf&ei=ZXZnUbLjOoaViAfgr4GoAg&usg=AFQjCNH0biQWuTpergCQQiiDfniqDe6MJQ&bvm=bv.45175338,d.aGc

    Table 15: Ever used cannabis in lifetime, among total population aged 16–64 years, by ethnic
    group (unadjusted prevalence and estimated number of adults)

    Ethnic group Prevalence (%) for total adults (95% CI) Estimated number of adults
    European/Other 49.2 (47.2–51.2) 1,023,200
    Māori 63.4 (60.1–66.7) 207,600
    Pacific 37.1 (32.9–41.4) 57,400
    Asian 10.8 (7.1–14.5) 24,000

    A similar pattern exists in the USA.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2377408/

    According to the 2003 NSDUH, 38.2% of White young adults 18 to 25 years of age in the U.S. reported any illicit drug use in the past year, followed by African-American (30.6%) and Hispanic (27.5%) young adults (SAMHSA, 2004a). The same race/ethnicity patterns were observed for the past-year prevalence of marijuana use and marijuana use disorders among individuals 18 to 29 years of age according to data from the 2001–2002 National Epidemiological Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions (NESARC; Compton et al., 2004)

    Despite all this drug use by White people they aren’t affected as much. What is going on I wonder. :)

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  44. nasska (11,086 comments) says:

    This conspiracy business could be worse than you think Dime. :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/yrhnvuyegi9z8r3/wanted%20poster%20for%20god.jpg

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  45. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    dime (5,922) Says:
    April 12th, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    Pot smokers are like AMWAY people. They love to tell you how “successful people are into it! lawyers! accountants!”

    Which is not to say that an addiction will not change that.

    Id love to know the real percentage of daily pot smokers that arent pieces of shit.

    sure, if youre the one in 20 that has a job and is a net tax payer, do what you want. but the reality is, most arent net tax payers. so screw em.

    Clearly you don’t want the real percentage as you’re quite happy to pull a number from thin air. On the other hand an actual figure is that about half of New Zealanders at some point have tried Cannabis.

    and yes, alcohol is bad wah wah wah not really a sound argument to introduce something else that is bad.

    Consistency is not a sound argument? Of course not.. Consistency might impact on your ability to get shitfaced drunk before you climb atop the next hooker. :)

    also, pot smokers are gross. its a dirty drug. they stink. they have bongs. they are into conspiracy theories. they are arrogant cause they “know things”.

    Bongs are gross I must agree. But so are drunks that lean on you while they throw spittle in your ear as they say the most inane things.. over and over and over again. Pot heads may be thinking stupid things but usually they keep it to themselves while they stare at the wall.

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  46. sbk (312 comments) says:

    “Jacinda Ardern said Turei’s comments “highlighted” the difficult situation many families find themselves”..high and lights blazing…the greens would have to build a dam or coal fired station to cope with the extra demand…

    …mind you,using the logic..meth cooks are just trainee chemists.

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  47. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Cunningham (408) Says:

    April 12th, 2013 at 1:59 pm
    Kea I saw plenty of ppl at school who were bright and then got into weed and just fucking gave up on life. I don’t feel comfortable opening the floodgates and encouraging more ppl to do this.

    Yes and I have seen the same. The fact that we have both seen this is evidence the law is not working. I do not think anymore people will smoke dope if it is made legal (again). Those who want to do so are already doing it. I doubt the occasional joint does much harm, though daily/heavy use certainly does. Alcohol is the same in that regard and does far more harm.

    I am for personal choice and personal responsibility. Eg: No benefit for those too messed up on dope to hold down a job.

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  48. PTM (47 comments) says:

    What’s this with the “recreational pot smoking” stuff?
    I am not sure I would be happy working in the same area on a Monday morning as a “recreational” user who is felling and processing trees, and using machinery.
    It is me who would be liable if there were an incident and as a result, that person was tested positive for canabis.
    While I can’t test everyone every day, the onus is still with me to keep the place safe for everyone.
    The unemployment stats need to be adjusted to remove anyone who has been turned down by a potential employer for failing or refusing to take a pre-employment drug test. Work and Income should have no trouble identifying the numbers involved and providing them to Statistics for inclusion.
    Even in lower risk situations, most employers that I know would have serious concerns about the effect of “recreational” drugs on productivity.
    Has anyone any idea as to how the insurers would react to a claim where a loss was even partly attributed to an employee who failed a drug test?
    The unemployment stats need to be adjusted to remove anyone who has been turned down by a potential employer for failing or refusing to take a pre-employment drug test. Work and Income should have no trouble identifying the numbers involved and providing them to Statistics for inclusion.

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  49. Reid (16,181 comments) says:

    This conspiracy business could be worse than you think Dime.

    Let’s hope Homeland Security don’t see that and start getting ideas, nasska.

    On Metewia’s thinking processes as she burbled her way to this well thought-out statement, what sort of politician, any politician, let alone a party leader, would say something like that? Can it possibly be that finally, after a lifetime of deep and passionate thinking about only one-side of any story, Metewia’s bwain has finally bwoken? It just couldn’t take it anymore? This endless mindless PC psychobabble bullshit minute after minute, hour after hour, day after day, year after year has finally taken its toll? Like a cancer that just wouldn’t stop?

    Crikey.

    I hope you other Gweens are watching this and taking note, Nandoor. This could be you, one day.

    I am not sure I would be happy working in the same area on a Monday morning as a “recreational” user who is felling and processing trees, and using machinery.

    This could possibly be why they have very strict drug-testing regimes operating in those sorts of industries PTM.

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  50. dime (9,792 comments) says:

    “On the other hand an actual figure is that about half of New Zealanders at some point have tried Cannabis.”

    big difference between someone who has smoked a few times, even for a few months and the lowlife shit bag who has smoked everyday for 20 years. unproductive as fuck.

    stoner chicks always seem extra dirty. like they dont know how to wash properly. gross.

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  51. Longknives (4,686 comments) says:

    Wow Nandor – I’d have thought someone who apparently ‘relates’ to young people would be more encouraging about their job prospects than to promote getting baked all day every day (then flog tinnies off at school) as a legitimate career prospect.
    I think our young people have more potential in life than to become drug dealers. Don’t you?

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  52. Longknives (4,686 comments) says:

    “big difference between someone who has smoked a few times, even for a few months and the lowlife shit bag who has smoked everyday for 20 years. unproductive as fuck.”

    I’m a drinker, absolutely love a good Scotch. But I know if I drink all day every day it will fuck me up and wreck my life.
    You will NEVER hear a Stoner admit that..

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  53. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    You give Tanczos too much credit, Longknives.

    Never forget he is a Luddite Green, therefore detached from reality. One of those who call cuckoo-land home.

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  54. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    stoner chicks always seem extra dirty. like they dont know how to wash properly. gross.

    Come on dime, where is the love in that !

    Give the lady a shower and shave, then your good to go :)

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  55. mandk (945 comments) says:

    Weihana @ 2.59
    Your stats show that Maori are significantly more likely than every other ethnic groups to have used cannabis in their lifetime.
    It would be interesting to see what the equivalent stats on habitual use are.

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  56. JMS (317 comments) says:

    You will NEVER hear a Stoner admit that..

    Depends how you define a stoner.

    But I know people who smoke cannabis at occasional parties, who would never even entertain the idea of smoking it daily because they know full well the negative effects chronic use would have.
    And before you come to any silly conclusions, one of them lives in a 1 million dollar house (not including the land value).
    Didn’t want to include that last sentence but unfortunately you just have to, to ram the message home.

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  57. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    JMS, yes but are they “extra dirty” ?

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  58. dime (9,792 comments) says:

    “But I know people who smoke cannabis at occasional parties” and wow a million dollar house?

    stoners are people who smoke multiple times per week.

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  59. nasska (11,086 comments) says:

    Insidious stuff this marijuana. Even those who wouldn’t know a joint from a trial run for a gay marriage can quote “Reefer Madness” chapter & verse. :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ittxif8ab9cfd0g/aGziWIo.png

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  60. JMS (317 comments) says:

    Kea,

    Nah, they would have to be the types that get horribly drunk and then spew, to be classed as ‘extra dirty’.

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  61. JMS (317 comments) says:

    dime,

    thought that would impress you, after all it is ten million of you.

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  62. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    mandk (84) Says:
    April 12th, 2013 at 3:42 pm

    Weihana @ 2.59
    Your stats show that Maori are significantly more likely than every other ethnic groups to have used cannabis in their lifetime.

    Significantly? Let’s remember what you initially said:

    “It ‘s that sort of mindset that contributes to poor educational performance, child neglect and inability to work.”

    Let’s take one data set: unemployment.

    The unemployment rate for Maori has ranged from approx 13-15% since 2010.

    http://www.stats.govt.nz/~/media/Statistics/Browse%20for%20stats/HouseholdLabourForceSurvey/HOTPDec12qtr/hlfs%20Dec12qtr-all-tables.xls

    Meanwhile the European unemployment rate has hovered about 5%.

    So you’re trying to say that an approx 10% proportional difference for lifetime Cannabis consumption between Europeans and Maori is “significant” to account for such things as Maori unemployment which is up to three times (or 300%) that of Europeans.

    Meanwhile “Pacific Peoples” unemployment rate is also about the same as Maori and yet their lifetime usage rates are about half that of Maori. The Asian unemployment rate is also about double that of Europeans. How can this be when, as you suggest, Cannabis is at the heart of unemployment problems for Maori?

    It would be interesting to see what the equivalent stats on habitual use are.

    At least weekly usage rates among past year users for European/Maori/Pacific are 38.0/41.3/34.8 respectively. At least monthly usage rates among past year users for European/Maori/Pacific are 53.2/57.6/51.9 respectively.

    The reality is that drug use (and abuse) crosses all ethnic and socio-economic barriers. But some people are more affected by it than others. The statistics suggest that it is something other than drug use per se that is at the heart of these discrepancies in outcomes (e.g. criminality, unemployment etc.)

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  63. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    There is a link between heavy drug use and unemployment. Other factors also play a part and may be more significant in individual cases. The fact that many of the long term unemployed have substance abuse issues does not mean that the drug is necessarily the cause. It may be that certain types of people are prone to heavy drug use and those same types may be a bit work shy.

    I am against drugs, but would legalise all of them. If people want to do drugs then I have no right to impose my beliefs on them. BUT I would make all benefits conditional on passing random drug tests. Any criminal offending under the influence would be dealt with harshly. They can do what they like with their lives, but can not expect others to suffer for it or to pay for it.

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  64. Rightandleft (662 comments) says:

    I also find drug use disgusting and wasteful but I would legalise most of it. By keeping it illegal all we do is lose out on the tax take and give the criminal underworld a massive source of revenue. I would draw the line at drugs that are proven to make people a significant threat to others. Your right to destroy your own body ends when it causes harm to someone else.

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  65. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Just to clarify I agree there is a link between drug use and unemployment but I do not see that it accounts for the discrepancies between ethnic groups. This is important because it relates to people’s perspective of the drug. It can’t reasonably be denied that cannabis use has risks and is associated with harm. The problem is getting people to put that in relative perspective in order to gauge what is a reasonable legislative response.

    Experts have tried putting drugs in perspective e.g. The lancet study. These of course have been rejected for purely political reasons because votes are more important than science or facts.

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  66. OneTrack (2,966 comments) says:

    “Those skills could be put to use in legitimate businesses (such as hemp farming). ” – spare me

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  67. duggledog (1,491 comments) says:

    My god. Just saw this. Another example of Labour’s only potential bedfellow’s lunacy for National to remind Kiwis of at the next election.

    Along with –
    Destroying 20% of the nation’s cows
    Giving beneficiaries Working For Families tax credits
    Voting to have meth classed as Class B
    Having a list MP who thought Pol Pott wasn’t such a bad guy

    And so on feel free to add to this or correct me

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  68. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Just to clarify I agree there is a link between drug use and unemployment but I do not see that it accounts for the discrepancies between ethnic groups.

    It is easy to see why some ethnic groups have higher unemployment. They are usually more communal, share what little they have, have a liberal view of personal property, and place more emphasis on fitting in with their peers than on personal achievement. All this helps give them a more relaxed approach to employment. I would not say it is due to being lazy, more to do with the order of priorities. I find the lives many of those folk live hectic and they always have people in their face.

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  69. OneTrack (2,966 comments) says:

    I am so looking forward to 2015. Should be good when Meteria has Mobie giving out business development grants to “green enterpreneurs” wanting to start a new “venture” in the Hokianga. Especially waiting to see what sort of positive spin Rachel can put on it.

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  70. Rightandleft (662 comments) says:

    I have to say I find it odd that the Greens support this libertarian approach to drugs when the rest of their policies are so we-know-best nanny-statish.

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  71. CharlieBrown (987 comments) says:

    DPF – Common sense isn’t usually good sense, and dunne is all too common and not so good. Turei is kind of right though, it does give young maori some skills, its just a shame that at the same time they learn good gardening skills, they also learn skills at breaking the law and avoiding police.

    Its time good sense prevails over the poor yet common sense that Dunne and co have. Having a joint doesn’t affect anyone but the person that smokes it and making it illegal is morally repugnant. Dunne deserves to spend a lifetime in prison for his persistent repression of peoples free will.

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  72. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    it does give young maori some skills,

    condescension a tad don’t you think.? My kids are young maori, they need to break the fucking law to learn a skill. There are 8 million legal skills and jobs out there but no, the politicians go in the condescension overdrive and presume doing something illegal gives them a start because there are a small percentage of loosers out there who the only work they will ever do is build cages in the bush. Fuck that small percentage, why sully every other maori kid in the country who gets out of bed and goes to school and work.

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  73. HC (153 comments) says:

    David, dear Farrar, obviously you and many others commenting here did not watch Native Affairs last Monday, otherwise you would know better. This is a total manipulation of what was reported on that current affairs program, that – with some valid reservations, still deserves to be called “current affairs” (rather than some other strange new entries).

    Native Affairs was reporting on the prospects of hemp cultivation, of industrial hemp crops that have such a low level of THC that you would probably have to “smoke” or “toke” kilograms of the stuff, to get even a slight bit of a “buzz”.

    It was about a crop that is already widely grown in California and other places, for purely industrial purposes, be this paper, clothing or sundry other manufacturing. The crop is not containing “marihuana” of any significant amount at all. It was frivolous, even misleading Parliament, by Melissa Lee and the good old “copper” from up north to raise their ire and voices on this, because they were either misinformed, did not know what was the story, or they even intentionally tried to misinform Parliament and the public, which I am not so sure about.

    In any case, it was ridiculous, and what Turei and others suggested was, not to introduce legal “drug growing”, it was a valid alternative, to allow those that may have gathered some “experience” growing the wrong crop, who wanted to reform and who wanted a valid economic alternative, to be introduced into larger scale hemp cultivation.

    That is again: NOT the addictive or by some used DRUG, but hemp as a crop without those properties.

    It is better for NZ forums and debates to play fair, be informed and reasonable, so I suggest that this gets noted and corrected, that Turei did NOT want to encourage DRUG growth, rather alternative, internationally proved, useful hemp cultivation.

    Thank YOU, HC

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  74. HC (153 comments) says:

    Further to my comment just made, as far as I understood the reporter on Native Affairs on Maori TV, they said, that there was some program or test program running, but those with previous drug convictions were banned from taking part in growing hemp (withouth the addictive or otherwise substance related properties)!

    Perhaps start watching Native Affairs now and then, and you can comment here and elsewhere with some authority and competency. Good luck, I only mean well and try to enlighten and inform, as I do NOT believe in blinkers!

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  75. CharlieBrown (987 comments) says:

    Pauleastbay – The whole post is about maori learning skills growing weed. The point i made is making a drug illegal when that drug doesn’t hurt anyone just teaches people how to break the law. Don’t be so freaking sensitive.

    The other point i was making is that Peter dunne is a f’ing hypocritcal chardonay socialist bastard that condems drug use whilst sipping expensive wine he stole from the tax payers.

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  76. UpandComer (528 comments) says:

    My auntie is a doctor. She treats a lot of young people for depression. The common thread? Weed. The common treatment that words? Don’t do weed.

    Weed smokers are kidding themselves.

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  77. emmess (1,418 comments) says:

    Hey, I have a crazy idea.
    Do you think maybe these ‘struggling families’ could perhaps use their ‘horticultural skills’ to grow something else?

    Errr ummm lets see, how about food?

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  78. CharlieBrown (987 comments) says:

    UpandComer, does your aunty treat alot of alcoholics too? I don’t do any drugs myself but I have smoked the odd joint when i was younger and so did alot of my friends, and they weren’t all depressed.

    The government is just against any form of drug induced high that comes from anything other than tobacco and alcohol. There is no sensible rationale in anyones mind if they believe that weed is any different to the two above. In fact, alot of drugs are no different than the above.

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  79. Pete George (23,422 comments) says:

    The government is just against any form of drug induced high that comes from anything other than tobacco and alcohol.

    That’s not right. The Government (currently with the support of all parties) has the Psychoactive Substances Bill in Parliament right now, and plan on it taking effect from August – Psychoactive Substances Bill – introduction to Parliament.

    This bill will allow the use of synthetic high inducing drugs that can prove they are reasonably safe to use.

    Discussion on the bill also pointed out another natural drug that is legal – kava.

    And caffeine is a legal drug and is very widely available in many products.

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  80. duggledog (1,491 comments) says:

    Charlie Brown, the weed they smoke nowadays is nothing like the stuff we used to have a bit of fun with back in the 80s. It is genetically modified, hydroponic, skunky rocket fuel. I used to have the odd joint with my mates, we’d laugh our heads off have the munchies and listen to a bit of music.

    One time I tried some of this heavy duty stuff and I thought I was going to die. I was like a stunned mullet for about five hours and never touched the stuff since!

    Problem is, some of the guys were smoking this shit all the time and had built up tolerance to it. And guess what most of them have done absolutely nothing with their lives. Sure, alcohol causes all sorts of problems, but let’s not add another drug into the mix

    I think cannabis use is the main reason we have such low productivity in NZ; add in the welfare state and hey presto, fucked country. Kiwis smoke more weed than Jamaicans.
    I’ve got no problem with growing hemp, I say plant it everywhere but you can’t have people with convictions growing it or they’ll simply have a nice little disguise for their proper crop. It would be impossible to police.

    I also think we could legalise all drugs, on the proviso that if you run into trouble getting a job, need treatment for mental conditions, medical conditions, problem gambling etc then the tax payer isn’t forced to pay for it.

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  81. CharlieBrown (987 comments) says:

    Pete George: Will they legalise weed then – it is safe as we have years and years of use to proove that teh fact. But wait, “reasonably safe” is a subjective term, and we all know that a drug could be just like water and they still wouldn’t legalise it as you could stop breething if you injested too much of it.

    I’ll give you your point on kava – but caffeine doesn’t get you high. Dunne has actually said in the past that he is against all forms of drug induced highs.

    And lets face it, bzp was safe but the gov’t banned it. No-one died from taking it, but because some people died after taking far too many pills plus ecstasy plus copious amounts of alcohol, they deemed it dangerous.

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  82. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    UpandComer (374) Says:
    April 13th, 2013 at 12:32 am
    My auntie is a doctor. She treats a lot of young people for depression. The common thread? Weed.

    I do not doubt that. I do wonder if depressed people tend to self medicate with drugs, including alcohol, which only makes things worse longer term. It did for me at one point in my life.

    I am not convinced that occasional use of weed is harmful to the majority of people. Certain individuals may be more susceptible to drug abuse, but that does not mean everyone should be banned from their preferred poison.

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  83. CharlieBrown (987 comments) says:

    duggledog – the alcohol we used to take in the 80’s is nothing like the alcohol you can buy now (I’m thinking of absinthe, cheap rtd’s etc). No bloody difference. Every point you made against weed is no different to alcohol.
    Most of the stuff people take isn’t genetically modified super weed, go to holland and try stuff there, I here that is far stronger than here.

    Cannabis has no impact on productivity here, it is employment laws and a lack of individual accountability. Legalise that dam stuff but at the same time let employers do more drug tests, I bet that would decrease the number of smokers.

    We need to change our attitudes to drugs, it is a societal cop-out. If someone commits a crime whilst on a drug, punnish them like they weren’t on drugs, and if they blame the drugs then ban them from taking it. If someone steals because they can’t get a job as they are too high then punnish them and ban them from taking drugs. I know lots of pot smokers with jobs and they are good at their jobs. We should also treat alcohol the exact same way.

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  84. Pete George (23,422 comments) says:

    CharlieBrown – the Psychoactive Substances Bill excludes those drugs already covered by legislation. But some people (including MPs) are suggesting it could be used as a model for having another look at less harmful banned drugs like cannabis.

    I personally think cannabis laws should be comprehensively reviewed. Any drug that are as well established in society as cannabis pose complex questions but current law is far from ideal.

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  85. CharlieBrown (987 comments) says:

    Pete George – agreed. A comprehensive review would show that the drug being illegal causes far more societal damage than it would cause if legal. When such a high percentage of society breaks a law like that then something is obviously wrong with the law. People often forget that Al Capone made his living out of selling alcohol illegally.

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  86. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    When such a high percentage of society breaks a law like that then something is obviously wrong with the law.

    There’s something wrong with the system that says that this retarded policy is law.
    Law is a relationship between cause and effect, consistent with reason.
    Cannabis is one of the most useful plants one the planet, its medicinal value alone is enough reason for commercial use.

    There reason for the depression and paranioa associated with recreational use is that the psychological effects enable people to connect the dots about the nature of the society.

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  87. pq (728 comments) says:

    I was just in the garden growing dope, you know, for myself and friends, not commercial activity at all, and I was a Green moron younger , ya ya Turei , die in the ditch,
    if you grow dope , the thugs come round,
    I hate the greens with a savage hatred
    I don’t care if they make it legal, so long as I never have to see those scumbag dope dealers ever again. I would like to kill people like idiot Turei
    We will demolish the mad green print money insanity, we will demolish Green, and we will demolish Winston Peters if he wants to print money and artificially lower $NZ

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  88. Yoza (1,765 comments) says:

    Who let Anders Breivik into the computer room?

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  89. BR (82 comments) says:

    “It’s a pretty simple point – people who grow cannabis commercially very obviously have high quality horticultural skills.”

    What bollocks. Pot is easy to grow. you only need a bucket of soil. The average deadbeat can do it.

    Bill.

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