Some facts from Bono on the progress on poverty

April 8th, 2013 at 7:00 am by David Farrar

I get talks on my podcast to listen to while exercising. Found this one interesting enough to share, and embedded below.

Some facts he cited:

  • Since 2000 there are eight million more AIDs patients getting antiretroviral drugs.
  • Eight countries in Africa have cut their malaria rate by 75%
  • The same countries have 2.65 million fewer child deaths a year or 7,256 a day.
  • The number of people living in extreme has reduced from 43% in 1990 to 21% in 2010.
  • At the current rate of decline, the number of people in extreme poverty would be close to zero by 2030
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66 Responses to “Some facts from Bono on the progress on poverty”

  1. Liberal Minded Kiwi (1,571 comments) says:

    Bono to his credit, admitted that the work done by George W Bush was so helpful to helping reducing the AIDS crisis and getting more drugs to the needy. W’s legacy to Africa is so often forgotten but yet it was so important and it worked.

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  2. Chuck Bird (4,924 comments) says:

    It is likely that antiretroviral drugs while extending the life of those with HIV will probably increase the number of those with HIV and HIV in the long term. Penicillin has been great in curing syphilis but the promiscuous behaviour of homosexuals is rendering the drug useless because drug resistant strains of syphilis.

    [DPF: Chuck. Think before you post. Most HIV in Africa is not due to homosexual activity you idiot. It’s kids getting it from their mothers. Over half of those in Africa with AIDs are women. recent studies indicate most HIV in Africa is not even spread through sex, but through unclean needles]

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  3. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Penicillin has been great in curing syphilis but the promiscuous behaviour of homosexuals is rendering the drug useless because drug resistant strains of syphilis

    You’re a sad unit Chuck, troll on GD.

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  4. Akaroa (583 comments) says:

    Hi Pauleastbay,

    Re:Your 7.48.

    Why is Chuck Bird ‘a sad unit’?.

    What he posted sounds reasonable/probable enough to me.

    (Discaimer; I have no knowledge of the identity of either Pauleastbay or Chuck Bird BTW)

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  5. kowtow (8,762 comments) says:

    Bongo is a fraud.

    All talk (like the good Paddy that he is) about eliminating poverty (like the lunatic Gordon Brown who saved the world’s economy).

    and yet Bongo lives in that rarified atmosphere of being among the richest in the world and despite all his talk about poverty and urging governments (taxpayers) to use their money to solve these problems ,the fucker is a tax dodger.

    Celebrity idolisation is a dreadful disease and should be eliminated.

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  6. Jimmy Smits (246 comments) says:

    Liberal Minded Kiwi (1,524) Says:
    April 8th, 2013 at 7:10 am

    Bono to his credit, admitted that the work done by George W Bush was so helpful to helping reducing the AIDS crisis and getting more drugs to the needy. W’s legacy to Africa is so often forgotten but yet it was so important and it worked.

    What exactly did he do to reduce the AIDS crises? Not trying to be challenging, just genuinely curious and too lazy to watch the video myself.

    kowtow (4,049) Says:
    April 8th, 2013 at 7:54 am

    Bongo is a fraud.

    All talk (like the good Paddy that he is) about eliminating poverty (like the lunatic Gordon Brown who saved the world’s economy).

    and yet Bongo lives in that rarified atmosphere of being among the richest in the world and despite all his talk about poverty and urging governments (taxpayers) to use their money to solve these problems ,the fucker is a tax dodger.

    Celebrity idolisation is a dreadful disease and should be eliminated.

    Pretty rich coming from a Christian who supports the Pope on the gay threads on this blog.

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  7. kowtow (8,762 comments) says:

    smits you arsehole ,keep the post on Bongo,not me or the Pope. You fuckers keep complaining about too much religion hijacking debates .

    Up yours jimmy.

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  8. Redbaiter (9,598 comments) says:

    “Last year, Bono’s nonprofit ONE foundation was at the center of semi-scandal when it was revealed that in 2008 the organization raised $14,993,873 in public donations — of which only $184,732 (or just over ONE percent) was distributed to charities. Where did the rest go? Well, more than $8 million went to salaries for executives and employees at ONE.”

    Capitalism (real economic growth) will bring Africa out of poverty- not patronising and cronyist and corrupt charities training the population to be dependent.

    http://capitalresearch.org/2012/04/bono-wants-to-save-the-world-but-he-needs-your-money-to-do-it/

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  9. Ed Snack (1,927 comments) says:

    Indeed, that poverty has been reduced has got zero to do with that loud mouthed fraud, Bono; or for that matter any other patronising overpaid tuneless pop-singers turned campaigners.

    But they are good at giving the clueless something to make themselves feel good that they did something about poverty.

    One of the best illustrations of how people can get themselves out of poverty concerns telephones. Why do far more people in Africa have mobile phones that work than have land line phones ? Simplest answer is that the governments only really control the land line markets.

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  10. RRM (10,018 comments) says:

    I wonder how many of Africa’s extreme poor have risen out of that poverty since 1990, and how many were murdered by genocidal warlords?

    Life’s pretty cheap in some of those countries, and death cheaper still…

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  11. GJKiwi (175 comments) says:

    “Chuck Bird (3,254) Says:
    April 8th, 2013 at 7:39 am
    It is likely that antiretroviral drugs while extending the life of those with HIV will probably increase the number of those with HIV and HIV in the long term. Penicillin has been great in curing syphilis but the promiscuous behaviour of homosexuals is rendering the drug useless because drug resistant strains of syphilis. ”

    What has homosexuality got to do with the spread of HIV in Africa? There it is promiscuous heterosexuals combined with the lack of adequate sex education and a very macho attitude. And Africa is where the biggest problem is, followed by India, where there is an increasing level of HIV infection. Where did you get your information about the promiscuous behaviour of homosexuals? I’d be interested in your research comes from. As I recall, one famous case in New Zealand was a black African who had infected quite a large number of women and was incarcerated because he was having sex with women with women and not informing them that he was HIV positive. Nothing to do with homosexuality.

    Redbaiter: Agree entirely. And interestingly, it is the women who are leading the way, in the form of starting businesses through micro-financing. The men have shown they can’t be trusted, so that the women are given funds directly and start up all manner of businesses. I can look up references, but I’m sure you have heard of this.

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  12. WineOh (630 comments) says:

    Well against the nay-sayers, regardless of whether its Bono or unpopular politicians, its gotta be great news to see those levels of malaria and HIV dropping so much, and more importantly level of extreme poverty. Those on the far left would just shift the benchmark for what defines poverty (like NZ’s child poverty standard that is based on household’s percentage of average income) rather than a definite definition like living on less than $x per day.

    I don’t care whether Bono is wealthy or not, if he can champion the cause and make NGOs and Governments commit more to aid budgets, anti-corruption policies, and economic initiatives (like those he cited of the sub-sahara African countries). It made me see him in a different light… [especially as IMHO his musical talents peaked with the “Achtung Baby” album and has spiraled downwards ever since. ] It helps that he can take the p!ss out of himself too.

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  13. Jimmy Smits (246 comments) says:

    kowtow (4,051) Says:
    April 8th, 2013 at 8:13 am

    smits you arsehole ,keep the post on Bongo,not me or the Pope. You fuckers keep complaining about too much religion hijacking debates .

    Up yours jimmy.

    Fantastic, Christ-like response right there. I’m sure your pastor would be proud.

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  14. GJKiwi (175 comments) says:

    Ed Snack (830) Says:
    April 8th, 2013 at 8:25 am

    “One of the best illustrations of how people can get themselves out of poverty concerns telephones. Why do far more people in Africa have mobile phones that work than have land line phones ? Simplest answer is that the governments only really control the land line markets.”

    There is a program which enables cell-phone users to make money by doing small-scale processing on smart-phones. They get paid a small sum for doing seemingly mundane things on their phones, which when compiled on a large scale are very efficient. So, owning a smart-phone not only allows them to communicate, but also to earn money, which is obviously a lot more beneficial than having a land-line.

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  15. GJKiwi (175 comments) says:

    One example, not the one I was looking for, but interesting nevertheless.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19451044

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  16. kowtow (8,762 comments) says:

    Yeah jimmy and I’m sure your commissar would be proud of your efforts here too.

    Like I said do try to keep off religion as this post is about Bongo the tax dodger.

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  17. eszett (2,426 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird (3,254) Says:
    April 8th, 2013 at 7:39 am
    It is likely that antiretroviral drugs while extending the life of those with HIV will probably increase the number of those with HIV and HIV in the long term. Penicillin has been great in curing syphilis but the promiscuous behaviour of homosexuals is rendering the drug useless because drug resistant strains of syphilis.

    Just like Pavlov’s dog, as soon as some key words such as HIV are mentioned, your mind immediately thinks cock.
    Your obsession with homosexuality, particular male homosexuality because that’s the only type you ever refer to, is pathological.

    You need help, Chucky.

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  18. Chinarugby (94 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird – your awful comments paint you as an offensive vile little man – your utter contempt for homosexuals blinds you to reality, logic and compassion. If you were to stop posting and go away now we would all better off.

    The African AIDS situation is most clearly not a ‘homosexual disease’ it is within the heterosexual community as has been pointed out to you – but really did you need it pointed out? – have you ever read anything on AIDS in Africa -ever?

    Silly silly man.

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  19. GJKiwi (175 comments) says:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8516628.stm

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  20. GJKiwi (175 comments) says:

    ChinaRugby: totally agree. I make no comment about his obsession with homosexuality. That is his affair. If he wants to think about homosexuality, then that is entirely his affair. It is interesting that a study on homophobics who were shown homosexual pornography were more turned on by it than were people who were not avowedly homophobic. It seems homophobics are quite often closet homosexuals. That aside, the situation in Africa, where the bulk of the HIV infected people live, is almost entirely to do with black African male machismo attitudes and poor sex education. In South Africa, the Government refuses to acknowledge that HIV is a problem, thus compounding the problem. Similar situations are found in other countries. However, as Redbaiter stated, capitalism in the form of providing microloans to women is the real future of African development, alongside with better education, including better sex education.

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  21. Chuck Bird (4,924 comments) says:

    “What has homosexuality got to do with the spread of HIV in Africa? There it is promiscuous heterosexuals combined with the lack of adequate sex education and a very macho attitude. ”

    CJKiwi, where did I mention homosexuality? Promiscuous heterosexuals in Africa were largely responsible for the spread of HIV in Africa unlike the West where homosexuals play a very large role in the spread of HIV.

    “Where did you get your information about the promiscuous behaviour of homosexuals? I’d be interested in your research comes from.”

    A recent survey of New Zealand gay men undertaken in conjunction with the NZ AIDS Foundation revealed nearly two thirds of gay men are drug users, and the majority also cheat on their partners, frequently. The survey found that 35% of NZ gay men have sex with between 12 and a hundred different strangers every year, often in circumstances very similar to the gay nightclubs Eric Rofes wrote about.

    http://www.investigatemagazine.co.nz/Investigate/?p=3333

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  22. Chuck Bird (4,924 comments) says:

    “Chuck Bird – your awful comments paint you as an offensive vile little man – your utter contempt for homosexuals blinds you to reality, logic and compassion.”

    Learn to read you pathetic anonymous creep.

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  23. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,917 comments) says:

    Yes it is good news.

    The number of people living in extreme poverty has reduced from 43% in 1990 to 21% in 2010.

    Pity the poor chap can’t tell the difference between percentages and numbers.

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  24. Akaroa (583 comments) says:

    At 7.39, commenting on a post by another blogger, DPF posted a comment including : “Chuck. Think before you post. Most HIV in Africa is not due to homosexual activity you idiot”.

    I was not the target of that post, neither do I know the individual to which it was directed, but I take exception to the last two words in that quotation: “You idiot”

    My question.

    Is it beyond the bounds of civilised conversation and comparison of views to avoid terms of derision and offence in your responses David?

    Obviously you have no direct control over what people post, but as blogmeister you should maintain a good standard of input.

    I thought you were a prominent and respected member of the Wellngton bloggery?.

    Hmmm?. Such terminology demeans you in other’s eyes David. Do try and lift your game in that area, old sport.

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  25. scrubone (3,104 comments) says:

    eszett: a rather ironic comment, given how many people responded to something his comment didn’t say because it mentioned gay men.

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  26. Fletch (6,490 comments) says:

    DPF: Chuck. Think before you post. Most HIV in Africa is not due to homosexual activity you idiot. It’s kids getting it from their mothers. Over half of those in Africa with AIDs are women. recent studies indicate most HIV in Africa is not even spread through sex, but through unclean needles

    HIV has not even been proved to be the cause of AIDS. People in Africa are dying from what they have always died of: lack of good sanitation and clean water, dysentery, malaria, TB, but now if the patient has what is called HIV (a retrovirus), their disease is re-defined as AIDS-dysentery, AIDS-TB, AIDS-Malaria etc. (“Viruses are larger and more complete replicable strands. Generally, the ones that can hurt us get into our cells and replicate themselves, and destroy the cells they get into. This has never been observed with a retrovirus, and certainly not with HIV”).

    There are at least 12 definitions of what AIDS is – the truth is, no one seems to know.
    See this video of a researcher who tried to find out what documentation there was to prove HIV causes AIDS (in order to get funding for a project he was working on – he wanted a citation for his application to show it). He couldn’t find it. No one could tell him, not even when he was able to ask Luc Montagnier, who supposedly discovered HIV. He couldn’t come up with a study or anything that proved it.

    Later on you can see a South African journalist Rian Malan who went looking for the ‘quarter of a million deaths’ from AIDS (according to the African media) but couldn’t find them. He thought it would be a simple matter and would shame President M’beki. All these years alter, he still cannot find them, because it’s a made up statistic.

    The video itself is an extra taken from the movie House of Numbers, which won 6 Film Festival awards.

    It’s worth watching the whole movie below, to get the opinion of both sides.

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  27. hj (7,066 comments) says:

    he EU should “do its best to undermine” the “homogeneity” of its member states, the UN’s special representative for migration has said.
    http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18519395

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  28. hj (7,066 comments) says:

    UN plan for global migration:
    http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/006/migration-un.htm

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  29. Manolo (14,056 comments) says:

    This Bono? http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2012/01/19/the-hypocrisy-of-the-filthy-rich/

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  30. Chuck Bird (4,924 comments) says:

    “[DPF: Chuck. Think before you post. Most HIV in Africa is not due to homosexual activity you idiot. It’s kids getting it from their mothers. Over half of those in Africa with AIDs are women. recent studies indicate most HIV in Africa is not even spread through sex, but through unclean needles]”

    DPF I did not say most HIV in Africa was due to homosexual behaviour but promiscuous behaviour – lot of it by truck drivers.

    I am not an idiot. I suggest you read Sexual Ecology by Gabriel Rotello – a homosexual – and you might learn a little about the topic even if it does not fit in with your ideology.

    http://www.gabrielrotello.com/sexual%20ecology.htm

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  31. Chuck Bird (4,924 comments) says:

    Over half of those in Africa with AIDs are women. recent studies indicate most HIV in Africa is not even spread through sex, but through unclean needles

    @DPF

    Have you a source that most AIDS in Africa is not spread through sex?

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  32. Chinarugby (94 comments) says:

    Hey Chuck Bird – you missed a golden opportuntiy to once again bore us all with your sign off line that maybe you’ll vote Conservative or NZF………..please please just one more time!

    You are untterly obbsessed with Homosexuals……..methinks you shout too loud

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  33. Ed Snack (1,927 comments) says:

    Chuck, you first post reads “…Penicillin has been great in curing syphilis but the promiscuous behaviour of homosexuals is rendering the drug useless because drug resistant strains of syphilis”.

    You may not have meant it but it sure looks like you are conflating AIDs with homosexuality, though with no specific reference to Africa.

    HIV transmission in Africa is very largely via heterosexual practices in Africa (and in parts of Asia), unlike the EU, USA/America and NZ/Australia where it is indeed almost entirely a drug abuse (shared needles) and homosexual issue. Apart from the needle sharing though, you are correct that it is promiscuity that is the primary factor in the spread of HIV, and in fact of every type of venereally transmitted disease. Note that there are suggestions (I don’t know how well grounded) that at least initially the spread of HIV in Africa was greatly assisted by poor medical practices around the re-use of syringes for many common vaccinations and tests.

    And as much as I believe one should be careful when ascribing cause without adequate reason, the HIV/AIDS link is, I suggest, by now very well established. Note that HIV is not the only route to Immunosuppression, but it is today by far the most common. The existence of other retro-viruses such as SIV in monkeys is also powerful evidence, as is the evidence of transmission. Sorry Reid, but that’s one more conspiracy out the window, better luck with the next one.

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  34. Fletch (6,490 comments) says:

    You may not have meant it but it sure looks like you are conflating AIDs with homosexuality,

    AIDS was originally known as GRID (Gay Related Immune Deficiency) and they only changed it because it sounded discriminatory. So, for political reasons.

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  35. RRM (10,018 comments) says:

    Fletch – AND when it was discovered that it is a sexually transmitted immune disorder caused by a virus…

    … one that works on normal people just the same as gays.

    So, for reasons of accuracy. ;-)

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  36. Fletch (6,490 comments) says:

    Fletch – AND when it was discovered that it is a sexually transmitted immune disorder caused by a virus…

    … one that works on normal people just the same as gays.

    RPM, but it’s most probably not caused by a virus at all. It’s a money making scam now – the pharmaceutical industry makes billions of dollars because of the AIDS treatments they sell, and they wouldn’t want a cure found (even if they could).

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  37. eszett (2,426 comments) says:

    scrubone (2,129) Says:
    April 8th, 2013 at 10:49 am
    eszett: a rather ironic comment, given how many people responded to something his comment didn’t say because it mentioned gay men.

    He went from HIV straight (pardon the pun) to “the promiscuous behaviour of homosexuals”. If you know Chucky’s posts that is not an exception or a random combination.

    He is so blinded by his hatred and obsession of imaginary evils of male homosexuals he is beyond any rational discussion on anything that has to to with sexuality. All he can do is spread his bile and idiotic nonsense.

    Though I am not surprised that you jump to his defense.

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  38. RRM (10,018 comments) says:

    Not a virus?

    I’m intrigued, please carry on…

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  39. Bob R (1,393 comments) says:

    What Bono needs to work on though is reducing the population explosion in sub-saharan africa. The population there is projected to double to 2 billion before 2050. The average women has over 5 children. That will lead to major conflicts over resources and people seeking asylum and displacing other populations.

    I would happily give money provided it’s linked to contraception and birth control shots.

    http://kidshealth.org/teen/sexual_health/contraception/contraception_depo.html

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  40. Chuck Bird (4,924 comments) says:

    @eszett

    When you cannot come up with facts you try childish name calling. I should have been a little more clear when I changed for Africa to the West. The fact is world wide that HIV is spread largely by promiscuous sexual behaviour.

    In NZ most of the cases of HIV are because of homosexuals and the AIDS Foundation whether the transmission was homosexual or heterosexual. The AIDS Foundation and homosexual rights activists lobbied successfully for immigrants and refugees not to be screened for HIV. After a number of New Zealanders became infected the law was finally changed.

    The AIDS Foundation oppose it being a criminal offense for someone who knows they have with a serious STD including HIV to tell potential sexual partners of their HIV or STD health status. I could give other examples. However, my main point is that putting homosexuals in charge of the sexual health of New Zealand is like putting a paedophile charge of a play centre.

    I make no apology for continuing to speak out against homosexual activism. Allegations that I hate homosexuals and I am a repressed homosexual are typical of the tactics of militant homosexual who put there demands ahead of what is good for society.

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  41. Ed Snack (1,927 comments) says:

    RRM, not a conventional virus, an RNA based retro-virus !

    I missed DPF’s comment on needle sharing, as I noted above I’ve certainly read about the possibility but I’m not aware of any good quality confirmation. It may be hard to check as I doubt that any clinics etc would admit to being so careless and it was some time ago.

    RRM, it is also true that AIDS as a “disease” did first come to ones attention in the homosexual community, I think mainly in the USA although I think the first medically recognized case is actually in 1959 in the Congo, from partial evidence from later preserved blood samples. Wiki (FWIW) asserts that 1968 is the year it was introduced to the USA although it may have reached Puerto Rico earlier, apparently a number of Puerto Ricans worked in the Congo in the 1960s and are thought to have brought the virus back.

    The early spread appears to have started in Africa with uncertain but probably heterosexual contacts. It was spread initially in the USA through the homosexual community, with one Gaetan Dugas, a homosexual French Canadian flight attendant being often identified as “patient zero” for the spread although there were several deaths and reports prior to his visits to “bath-houses”. In what we could call “the West” HIV infection is broadly restricted to the homosexual community with a reduced (needle sharing is rarer than it used to be, not only HIV but hepatitis was spread that way) impact in the drug abuse fraternity, and small spikes in the heterosexual community. The differences appear cultural, but there is some dispute as to the real extent in Africa, it seems difficult to find good data and explanations.

    All this an aside from Bono’s statements about poverty. I’d say free trade has far more to do with it than any charity, and if we could promote more free trade especially in agricultural commodities even more poverty could be eliminated.

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  42. Fletch (6,490 comments) says:

    Not a virus?

    I’m intrigued, please carry on…

    RRM, it’s hard to say, but the main cause could come down to nutrition, lifestyle, and the abuse of drugs.
    One of the first diseases that defined AIDS in gay men was Kaposi’s Sarcoma. HIV cannot explain this. In fact, Robert Gallo (the infamous man who first said that HIV was the cause of AIDS) said in 1994 that Kaposi’s Sarcoma could not be explained by HIV but that nitrite poppers, a drug that had been extremely popular in the gay community, “could be the primary cause.”

    “Poppers”, are little vials of chemical nitrates that were the drug of use in clubs by gay men in the 1980s.

    What are poppers?

    John Lauritsen : Poppers are nitrite inhalants. The nitrites (amyl-, butyl- and isobutyl-) have a number of effects that made them attractive to young gay men. If used during sex, they prolong and enhance orgasm. Some men became incapable of having sex or even masturbating without them. Poppers were used to facilitate anal sex, because they deaden pain and relax the muscles in the rectum.

    How were poppers used?

    Lauritsen: They were used ubiquitously. They came in little vials that you’d pop open and snort. Some gay men used poppers first thing in the morning, on the dance floor and every time they had sex. At gay discothèques, men shuffled around in a daze, holding their poppers bottles under their nose. The acrid odor of poppers was synonymous with gay gathering places.

    How do nitrite poppers affect health?

    Lauritsen: Poppers are an extraordinarily toxic drug. They cause brain damage from strokes, severe skin burns and heart failure. They suppress the immune system and damage the lungs. They’ve caused death from a single use. They’re such an effective poison that they’ve been used to commit suicide and murder.

    The nitrites are strongly mutagenic, which means they cause cellular change and genetic mutation. Nitrites produce deadly toxins when mixed with commonly used chemicals like antihistamines, artificial sweeteners and painkillers. Virtually all antibiotics are converted into potent carcinogens by nitrites.

    John Lauritsen is a journalist and gay historian who’s investigated and written about AIDS for over 20 years. In 1992, he uncovered documents through the Freedom of Information Act, which revealed that the toxic AIDS drug, Azidothymidine (AZT), was approved based on fraudulent medical trials. His books include The AIDS War and The Early Homosexual Rights Movement – 1864 to 1935.

    AZT was one of the first drugs used to treat AIDS and is extremely toxic which “stops all cell division, not only cancerous cell division, and was never approved as a chemotherapy drug because of its side effects, which include myopathy, or muscular atrophy, and severe bone-marrow toxicity.” Some people think it is the AIDS drugs which are actually giving people the symptoms we see, especially since the amount of AZT has been lessened in the chemical cocktails that patients take.

    It’s interesting that people who have stopped taking the drugs that are supposed to stop AIDS have gotten completely well, including this woman interviewed outside a showing of House Of Numbers. She was told to get her affair in order and make out a will – that she’d be lucky to have six months to live. She took the drugs for years before finding out about the other side of the story, quit the drugs and now has no signs of illness at all.

    Yet another partial explanation of “AIDS” is Intestinal Dysbiosis, in which the flora in the stomach are destroyed by some of the activities around gay men – anal douching, too many antibiotics, and drying out caused by lubricants. In studies done, it was found that 100% of HIV+ subjects had candida in their fecal samples, compared to 40% of the general population. The levels of this were 10,000 times higher in HIV+ subjects than in their negative counterparts.

    According to what I have read, the flora in your stomach (sometimes referred to as “the forgotten organ”) are vitally important when it comes to the immune system.

    See a talk on Intestinal Dysbiosis given by a gay man HERE as a possible cause.

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  43. Ryan Sproull (7,284 comments) says:

    AIDS was originally known as GRID (Gay Related Immune Deficiency) and they only changed it because it sounded discriminatory. So, for political reasons.

    And for accuracy reasons, once it was clear that straight people could contract it too.

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  44. RRM (10,018 comments) says:

    Fletch – ta.

    As my Dad explained it to me, a couple of years ago right before he retired as a lab tech in the public hospital system, that if a nurse on the wards ever suffered a needle stick injury, they would be given anti-retrovirus drugs immediately and the lab would drop everything to run blood tests on him/her to see if anything nasty was contracted.

    Apparently the anti-retroviral drugs we have now are so good, that provided they are given within a few hours of the infection they will pretty reliably kill all HIV viruses that may be present. I am told that the nature of the HIV virus makes this a pretty significant achievement, compared to what used to be available..

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  45. Chuck Bird (4,924 comments) says:

    “Apparently the anti-retroviral drugs we have now are so good, that provided they are given within a few hours of the infection they will pretty reliably kill all HIV viruses that may be present.”

    @RRM

    Have you got a source for that claim?

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  46. RRM (10,018 comments) says:

    On a completely different note it would be interesting to know how much the popularisation of “fair trade coffee” has really impacted poverty.

    I remember when I first saw a thing about “fair trade coffee” – it was in about 2004 or 2005 in a cafe in the Botany Downs town centre. I remember thinking that it was a cool idea, but people would never accept a price hike for their coffees so surely this will die a pretty quick death and be forgotten.

    How wrong I was… fast forward a decade and “fair trade” coffee is everywhere now. It would be good to know whether the benefits for the growers in poor countries have been all that they were hoped to be.

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  47. RRM (10,018 comments) says:

    Chick Bird –

    As I said, only that my old man who worked in a technical field in public hospitals for 45 years told me so!

    (I can guarantee you that my old man is not part of the gay-loving, crim-cuddling vast left wing conspiracy! ;-) )

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  48. Chuck Bird (4,924 comments) says:

    “And for accuracy reasons, once it was clear that straight people could contract it too ”

    And when was it not clear the heterosexuals can get HIV?

    The reason for the name GRID (Gay Related Immune Deficiency) is that homosexuals were and are disproportionately affected by the disease and that is likely to be the case as long as the government funded AIDS Foundation exists.

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  49. Fletch (6,490 comments) says:

    RRM, even Luc Montagnier, who supposedly discovered the retrovirus, doesn’t believe HIV is the cause now.

    According to Dr. David Rasnick (a protease specialist and has been in AIDS research for 20 years),

    In 1990 at the San Francisco AIDS conference, Montagnier announced that HIV did not, after all, kill T-cells and could not be the cause of AIDS. Within hours of making this announcement, he was attacked by the very industry he’d helped to create. Montagnier’s not a liar. He’s a so-so scientist who’s in over his head.

    In a 1997 interview, Luc Montagnier spoke about his isolation of HIV. He said, “We did not purify [isolate] … We saw some particles but they did not have the morphology [shape] typical of retroviruses … They were very different … What we did not have, as I have always recognized it, is that it was truly the cause of AIDS.”

    So, if the man who discovered HIV says it’s bullshit, then what are the rest of us to believe?

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  50. scrubone (3,104 comments) says:

    eszett: his comment wasn’t a great contribution. People should be treated for disease, if treatment is available.

    My comment was that trigger words work both ways.

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  51. Fletch (6,490 comments) says:

    ps, HIV is classed as a retrovirus. And what is a retrovirus?

    Retroviruses are a subset of viruses that are not toxic to cells. They were discovered in the early 20th century. They’re one of the first identified cellular particles. There are about 3,000 catalogued retroviruses. They exist in every animal: dogs, cats, whales, birds, rats, hamsters and humans. Retrovirologists estimate that one to two percent of our own DNA is retrovirus.

    Retroviruses are RNA strands that copy themselves into our DNA using an enzyme called Reverse Transcriptase. Retroviruses are passed down matrilineally – from mother to child. They’re not sexually transmissible. Lab animals do not exchange retroviruses with each other, no matter how much they mate. But babies always have the same retroviruses as their mothers.

    Current research strongly indicates that they’re simply a naturally occurring part of us. In 50 years of modern lab research, no retrovirus has ever been shown to kill cells or cause disease, except under very special laboratory conditions.

    MORE info at –

    http://www.aliveandwell.org/docs/LiamScheff_TheAIDSDebate_Part_I.doc

    http://www.aliveandwell.org/docs/LiamScheff_TheAIDSDebate_Part_II.doc

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  52. Chuck Bird (4,924 comments) says:

    “As I said, only that my old man who worked in public hospitals for 45 years told me so!”

    Nothing against your father but what were his qualifications?

    What you have said was not true a short while ago. Anti-retrovirus drugs help with the symptoms and reduce the risk of transmission but do not cure HIV.

    It is a simple fact that promiscuous sexual behaviour is the cause of the spread of HIV and other serious STDs. It is also another fact that promiscuous sexual behaviour is a bigger problem with homosexuals as the anus was not designed for intercourse.

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  53. RRM (10,018 comments) says:

    #1 – As I said – he was a medical lab tech in a provincial hospital small enough that the lab tech, the pathologist, the physicians and a bunch of others would frequently sit around the same table in the cafeteria shooting the shit at lunchtime.
    So he was not an HIV specialist or even a practising hospital physician; but his workmates were, and HIV is kind of a headline issue in their industry so apparently it’s something that comes up for discussion when the senior guys are sitting around the table in the cafeteria shooting the shit ;-)

    #2 – There was a proviso in what I said that you’ve immediately forgotten: provided they are given within a few hours of the infection they will pretty reliably kill all HIV viruses that may be present.

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  54. Chuck Bird (4,924 comments) says:

    RRM, I am not a physician either but have my own reasons for an interest in the subject. When I research a subject I do reply on what someone told someone who told someone even if I trust the last link in the chain. That is called hearsay evidence.

    I have had my calculations on the risk of HIV used in someones master’s thesis which they passed BTW.

    I find it interesting how some of the libertarians who like to claim Christians are illogical yet they have blind faith in libertarian ideology particularly relating to homosexual issues.

    Fanatical groups like victimologist or homosexual activist should not get government funding to fight other voluntary groups. I would like to see all government funding stop for the HRC and the NZ AIDS Foundation.

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  55. RRM (10,018 comments) says:

    I’m not trying to convince anyone that I’m correct through any rigorous process either Chuck –
    it’s kiwiblog, for goodness’ sake!

    But I, well, I stand behind everything I’ve already said on this thread. I’m not making all this up, life’s too short. I don’t know what else to say…?

    I guess it’s also possible HIV/AIDs was dropped off by the same alien space ship that steered the aircraft into the WTC on 9/11, but that’s a slightly bigger claim that probably needs a fair bit of independent verification, with references…

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  56. RRM (10,018 comments) says:

    (Or that it’s righteous divine punishment for homosexuals…)

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  57. Ed Snack (1,927 comments) says:

    Sigh, too much to hope that this thread doesn’t become a pointless discussion about HIV and its effects.

    Retro viruses are not “harmless”, necessarily, nor is it impossible that they be transmitted sexually, that is simple misinformation. The description is correct, they are RNA based viruses that use reverse-transcriptase to have DNA made for replication by a normal cell, and the early anti-HIV drugs used this and inhibited that process.

    As an example, HIV transmission can be detected through the medium of blood transfusions, and although transmission is by no means certain during intercourse, it can indeed occur as has been fairly well established. If it is purely “lifestyle” causing the AIDS effects, why did blood transfusion victims, who very rarely have “lifestyle issues” (think Eve von Grafhorst), suffer the same range of problems as other known HIV infected individuals ?

    As for Karposi’s Lymphona, sigh, it is one cancer that is almost certainly associated with a virus causative agent, Human Herpes Virus 8, and that virus is usually kept pretty well under control by the immune system. Thus KS was known at first from immuno-compromised patients, and its appearance in AIDS patientswas one of the factors that led to the findings on how HIV suppresses the immune system by destroying certain immune system cells. So KS can be triggered by an widespread suppression of the immune system, it can for example be found in transplant patients taking immuno-suppressant drugs. In fact KS was relatively rare and found primarily in certain populations (mediterranean basin countries, North Africa for example) before transplants became more common and the use of T-Cell inhibiting drugs increased.

    Chuck, RRM’s anecdote is I think quite reliable, until the HIV virus gets established, it is quite vulnerable to modern drugs. Once established however it appears that reservoirs of infection exist in a semi-dormant state that is not particularly attacked by the current drugs. So a person with an established HIV infection can often control that infection with drugs but rarely become clear. The circulating viruses though are often cleared. So anyone who has received HIV very recently has a very good chance of having only circulating viruses and hence can be cleared. Difficult possibly to prove experimentally it does appear to work, or perhaps the chance of contracting HIV from a random “stab” is much lower than thought. However people can become infected through just casual contact.

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  58. Chuck Bird (4,924 comments) says:

    Ed, you seem to be well informed on this as you are on a number of topics. The cases you and RRM refer to are rare. For example a prison guard being deliberately infected by a prisoner. Most people who find the have HIV have had it at least long enough for the anti-bodies to be detectible.

    My argument always has been that there is no magic bullet for HIV like many other problems. It should be treated logically and honestly by health officials who are independent of militant homosexual lobby groups like the government funded AIDS Foundation who put the public at risk.

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  59. Ed Snack (1,927 comments) says:

    Chuck, thank you, and I agree with there being (currently) no magic bullet. I was supporting RRM as I believe the anecdote from his father regarding administering anti-retro-viral drugs immediately being held to be effective.

    The current drugs are surprisingly good, and for some people they do let them lead an almost normal life. However there is a fairly extensive “tail” of people for whom the drugs have side-effects that vary from minor to rather unpleasant. It would take another break-through to eliminate the disease. The drugs, too, are typically expensive.

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  60. Chuck Bird (4,924 comments) says:

    Thanks Ed, if you drop me an email I will show you some stuff confidentially that will explain why I am so anti homosexual activists and the AIDS Foundation.

    chuckbirdnz@gmail.com

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  61. Fletch (6,490 comments) says:

    The description is correct, they are RNA based viruses that use reverse-transcriptase to have DNA made for replication by a normal cell, and the early anti-HIV drugs used this and inhibited that process.

    I do not believe so. Any HIV drugs can only act as a chemotherapy process and destroy cells. As far as I know they do not ‘inhibit’ anything. This is especially true of AZT. Human beings can only take chemo for short periods and survive.

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  62. Fletch (6,490 comments) says:

    “The anti-viral drugs are chemotherapies; they are all based on chemotherapies that have been developed 30 years ago – long before AIDS was known – to kill human cells. Chemotherapy is restricted to a few months in the hope the cancer dies before you die.” – Dr Peter Deusberg

    “If you started taking any other chemotherapeutic agent for the rest of your life, it would be that agent probably that would kill you. You know, when you give chemotherapy to someone with cancer, you give them a round of it for maybe 14 days – hopefully you’re not going to kill the patient – you’re going to kill the cancer; the patient is going to survive. You don’t keep giving it to him until he dies, because he certainly will.” – Nobel Prize winner Kary Mullis, Ph.D

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  63. Ed Snack (1,927 comments) says:

    Fletch, your ignorance is showing. At least some anti-retroviral drugs inhibit the action of reverse transcriptase. That is not a “chemo-therapy” action in a way that many anti-cancer drugs work. Although one can describe all drugs as “chemo-therapy” if you wish, they are a form of therapy and they are chemicals…

    ARV drugs can use a variety of mechanisms. For example on class blocks HIV from the cell by blocking the target molecules HIV uses to bind and fuse. The CCR5 receptor is one such target, for example. Others inhibit the protease used by HIV to cleave the proteins it uses from the substrate, there are RT inhibitors with several actions, and several that inhibit the assembly of the final virus in a cell. None of those are typical actions of a classic anti-cancer chemotherapy regime but are targeted very specifically retro-virus activity and HIV in particular.

    Note that several of the drugs are also useful against ordinary viruses but would need “tuning” to be really effective. For example the protease inhibitor is aimed at a specific protease other other viruses use other molecules.

    Note also that HIV positive people usually take a “cocktail” of ARV drugs and can do so for many years. This is quite unlike cancer chemo-therapy.

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  64. gump (1,661 comments) says:

    @Fletch

    HIV has not even been proved to be the cause of AIDS. People in Africa are dying from what they have always died of: lack of good sanitation and clean water, dysentery, malaria, TB, but now if the patient has what is called HIV (a retrovirus), their disease is re-defined as AIDS-dysentery, AIDS-TB, AIDS-Malaria etc.

    ————————–

    Are you retarded?

    AIDS is a disease of the immune system. It doesn’t kill Africans – they die from the dysentry, TB, or Malaria that their immune systems cannot defend them against.

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  65. Longknives (4,868 comments) says:

    Q- What’s the difference between Jesus and Bono?

    A- Jesus doesn’t think he’s Bono.

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  66. Fletch (6,490 comments) says:

    gump, that’s not how they define AIDS over there.
    If a person has Malaria, they are treated for Malaria, but if they happen to have a high T-cell count, or it’s somehow determined they have the HIV retrovirus (which is actually very hard to do directly) then their diagnosis suddenly goes from having Malaria to having HIV/Malaria and they are given drugs for AIDS.

    What SHOULD really be done is they should just be treated for Malaria, because the so-called HIV retrovirus is mostly harmless carrier virus. That’s what I mean when i say Africans are dying from what they have always died from, only it is being called something else.

    Dr. Rodney Richards puts it in a better way –

    : According to the CDC, AIDS works like a formula: If you have an AIDS-indicator disease like salmonella, tuberculoses, pneumonia, herpes, or a yeast infection, and you test HIV-positive, then you’re said to have AIDS, and you’re treated with toxic AIDS drugs. If you test negative or don’t know your HIV status, you’re spared the toxic drugs and simply treated for the disease you have.

    In 1993 the CDC expanded their definition of AIDS to include people who are not sick at all but who test positive and have a one-time T-cell count under 200. Based on this new criteria, by 1997, about 2/3 of all AIDS cases were perfectly healthy people. As it happens, ’97 was the last year the CDC told us how many people were healthy and how many were sick. Now they just count everyone who’s HIV-positive as an AIDS patient, whether they’re sick or not.

    Here is Luc Montagnier (the discoverer of the so-called HIV virus) saying that if you have good nutrition that the body can naturally rid itself of the virus.

    Leung [the filmmaker]: You talked about oxidative stress earlier. Is treating oxidative stress one of the best ways to deal with the African AIDS epidemic?

    Montagnier [the scientist]: I think this is one way to approach, to decrease the rate of transmission, because I believe HIV we can be exposed to HIV many times without bring chronically infected, our immune system will get rid of the virus within a few weeks, if you have a good immune system; and this is the problem also of the African people. Their nutrition is not very equilibrated, they are in oxidative stress, even if they are not infected with HIV; so their immune system doesn’t work well already. So it’s prone, it can, you know, allow HIV to get in and persist. So there are many ways which are not the vaccine, the magic name, the vaccine, many ways to decrease the transmission just by simple measures of nutrition, giving antioxidants — proper antioxidants — hygiene measures, fighting the other infections. So they are not spectacular, but they could, you know, decrease very well the epidemic, to the level they are in occidental countries, western countries.

    Leung: So if you have a good immune system, then your body can naturally get rid of HIV?

    Montagnier: Yes.

    […]

    Leung: Well there’s no money in nutrition, right? There’s no profit.

    Montagnier: There’s no profit, yes. Water is important. Water is key.

    Leung: Now one thing you said, you were talking about the fact that if you have a built immune system, it is possible to get rid of HIV naturally. If you take a poor African who’s been infected and you build up their immune system, is it possible for them to also naturally get rid of it?

    Montagnier: [Nodding yes] I would think so.

    Leung: That’s an important point.

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