Swedish riots

May 22nd, 2013 at 9:00 am by David Farrar

The headline in Stuff was:

Stockholm rioting continues after shooting

is not normally a country you associate with rioting. When I saw the headline, I thought that it was almost inevitable that the rioting would be by immigrants. I felt a bit guilty over jumping to such a conclusion but the story starts:

Some 200 youths hurled rocks at police and set cars ablaze in a largely immigrant suburb of Stockholm today, the second day of rioting triggered by the fatal police shooting of a man wielding a knife.

Dozens of windows were smashed, 10 cars and several containers were set on fire, and seven police officers were injured. Cars and containers were also set ablaze in another of the Swedish capital’s suburbs, Fittja, although police said it was not clear whether the two events were linked.

The unrest began Sunday night in response to the May 13 shooting, in which police killed a 69-year-old man who had locked himself in an apartment in Husby, west of Stockholm. Police refused to give the nationality of the victim.

It sounds like France.

I am an absolute fan of , but it has to be done in a way where new citizens integrate into their new country, not form enclaves. Few countries in Europe have managed this. I’m pleased to say that New Zealand largely does.

Reinfeldt added that Husby – where around 80 percent of the roughly 11,000 residents are first- or second-generation immigrants – has been going in the right direction during his seven-year tenure, with employment increasing and crime falling.

An 80% concentration of immigrants is not healthy in my opinion. As I said above, integration (which is different to assimilation) is the key.

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93 Responses to “Swedish riots”

  1. Manolo (13,390 comments) says:

    The Economist’s take on Swedish immigration: http://www.economist.com/news/special-report/21570836-immigration-and-growing-inequality-are-making-nordics-less-homogeneous-ins-and

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  2. In Vino Veritas (136 comments) says:

    Some years ago, my wife and I rendezvoused with some Swedish friends in Italy. He bought up the subject of immigration and asked me how I felt about immigrants to NZ. My response was that NZ was essentially empty (when you compare it to European countries) and that I didnt have any particular issues with it, so long as the immigrants were bringing something more than just “multiculturalism”. His view on immigrants to Sweden was similar lines, though he said that there was trouble brewing due to immigration in his country, and I guess this is the evidence.
    There have also been some interesting articles in the UK by AN Wilson and Peter Hitchens on immigration into the UK. It appears the Blair Government deliberately planned mass immigration into the UK to make it society more “diverse”. And now they have Ed Miliband saying that “One nation doesn’t mean one identity. People can be proudly, patriotically British without abandoning their cultural roots”. Which is a tenuous statement at best.

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  3. wreck1080 (3,734 comments) says:

    I’m not sure that you are right about NZ, especially Auckland.

    We have certainly had too much Asian immigration.

    You compare Auckland 20 years ago with Auckland today — the makeup has changed drastically.

    However, in saying that,the chinese are a far preferred option to islamists.

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  4. James Stephenson (2,038 comments) says:

    Which is a tenuous statement at best.

    But typical Labour party revisionism. This is the same party that got all exercised about Norman Tebbit’s “Cricket Test”?

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  5. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    I am a fan of immigration, but I think this is another country that has sold-out it’s culture in the name of a socialist ideology that is only taken seriously by Europeans. Other cultures do not embrace multi culturalism (… unless they benefit from it personally after moving to a place like Sweden)

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  6. EAD (627 comments) says:

    “youths” – newspeak to describe anyone committing violence & crime in Europe who is not native to the country.

    Even the most “liberal” (newspeak for authoritarian) of my colleagues have started to recognise the elephant in the room of allowing an aggressive death cult to take hold in a secular liberal Europe. It is starting to dawn on them that if something is not done ASAP then this massive experiment in mixing together alien cultures, telling them “don’t integrate, celebrate your diversity” is going to end in the most bloody civil war(s) all across Europe.

    These stupid bl**dy Socialists and “liberals” always think they can change human nature. And it does not matter how high the butchers bill is there is always a new generation of naive fools who think this time it will be different. It never is.

    And it will be what is left of Conservatives who recognise human nature and work with that to try and get the best outcome within it who will be left to clean up yet another “progressive” mess.

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  7. Andrei (2,506 comments) says:

    Lol – its like watching a slow motion train wreck as the West commits suicide often prompted by an aging, often childless, elite who promote both gay “marriage” and immigration, while sneering at the religion, history and cultural heritage of the native population.

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  8. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    I am an absolute fan of immigration,

    I have lived in London and Paris. Hopeless. Ruined. Lost.

    New Zealand. We are giving our country away.

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  9. James Stephenson (2,038 comments) says:

    I am a fan of immigration

    I have to be, don’t I?

    The problem is that the Left have taken arguing against the premise that there’s nothing good about immigration, to an illogical conclusion where you’re only allowed to voice the opinion that there’s nothing bad about immigration.

    There’s not much in life that comes without risks or benefits, it’s the job of governments to balance those for the good of society, not as in the UK to society’s risk and the Labour party’s electoral benefit.

    while sneering at the religion, history and cultural heritage of the native population.

    You can’t preserve “culture” in aspic Andrei, especially in Britain. Without cultural influences from the Empire, there’d be no Afternoon Tea, no Chicken Balti, no Specials or Madness and could you imagine Indian culture without Cricket?

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  10. James Stephenson (2,038 comments) says:

    I have lived in London

    So let’s take Finsbury Park as an example shall we?

    There are some utterly fantasic pubs with old Jamaican and Irish fellas playing dominos over Guiness and Gold Label, look one way for Cricket on TV and the other way for Football (Gaelic or Association). West Indian and Indian Indian restaurants and hordes of Arsenal fans of their immigrant South London team.

    On the other hand, go round the corner and you have Abu Hamza’s mosque.

    Good and bad, risks and benefits.

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  11. RRM (9,475 comments) says:

    I believe we’ll see a mass deportation of Muslims from Europe & / or Scandinavia within the next 50 years.

    Hitler had to force the Jews into Ghettoes, the Muslims make it easy by establishing their own…

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  12. kowtow (7,650 comments) says:

    The ‘I” word again.

    Immigration is fine if controlled and limited.It is fine if the immigrants are prepared to integrate.The model used to be the USA,where the notion of melting pot was prime. You integrated,became an American ,a citizen loyal to the Constitution.

    That model has been destroyed by the left and by the utterly discredited notion of multiculturalism,which places emphasis ,not on integration but on “diversity” and being different .And yet the proponents of multiculturalism bleat on about “equality”.Mass Hispanic immigration is destroying the nature of US society and politics.

    The other I word is Islam . Islam is an ideology of supremacist domination . There will be no integration of Islamic immigrants. It is impossible. Europe is waking up to that but it is too late and the consequences are already being seen. It didn’t take long.

    I think one of the reasons the Scandanavian countries have been so “successful” is due to their homogeniety. They are Lutheran,share common values ,history culture etc…..the mass immigration they have had in the last 20 years or so has upset that.That cannot be a good thing.

    The riots are no surprise. Anyone following these issues knows these things have been brewing for quite some time.The problem is the MSM refuse to cover it in any depth.”Racism”.

    DPF mentions France. Riots are common on the banlieu which are no go areas to the police.So Balkanisation has already taken place there. Same thing in Sweden ,Britain etc

    Enoch Powell was right . So is Geert Wilders.

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  13. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Immigration is fine if controlled and limited.It is fine if the immigrants are prepared to integrate.The model used to be the USA,where the notion of melting pot was prime. You integrated,became an American ,a citizen loyal to the Constitution.

    True kowtow.

    The USA was built on immigration and it is what made it great. The only condition is you became an American if you moved you there. Simple and effective. When in Rome…

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  14. Manolo (13,390 comments) says:

    Followers of Islan do not emigrate, they come to conquer, to impose their vile cult by any available means.
    They are prolific breeders, in contrast to native Europeans, so it’s only a matter of time.

    Steyn believes in a future where the European continent is dominated by Islam — is an imminent reality that cannot be reversed. “Every Continental under the age of 40 is all but guaranteed to end his days living in an Islamified Europe. Native populations on the continent are aging and fading and being supplanted remorselessly by a young Muslim demographic.”
    Lights Out: Islam, Free Speech And The Twilight Of The West

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  15. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    wreck1080 (2,840) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 9:25 am

    We have certainly had too much Asian immigration.

    You compare Auckland 20 years ago with Auckland today — the makeup has changed drastically.

    However, in saying that,the chinese are a far preferred option to islamists.

    lol. How much is too much? What’s the magic number? Preferred option? But not the ideal I suppose.. Gee, what is ideal in your eyes?

    Ironic how all of you talk about the need to integrate. And how do you propose people integrate when they are clearly not accepted by many? wreck1080 talks about there being “too much Asian immigration”. The reason? The “makeup” has changed he says. Gee, what does that mean I wonder…. other than “these people around me don’t look like me… and I don’t like that.”

    Funny, when I walk around Auckland I do see a lot of Asian people. But they appear just as civilized and law abiding and productive as anyone else. But that’s not the real issue. The real issue is that we have a bunch of old bigots who come on to blogs like this employing a very creative lexicon to avoid saying what they really feel: “not enough white people”.

    Anyway, back to cliches about “leftists” and “multiculturalism” and “socialism”. :)

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  16. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Weihana, I agree and I go even further with your point. We need to intergrate Asian immigrants into the day to day running of the country.

    I propose putting Asian business people in charge of hand outs to Maori and the entire welfare system. Like you say, they embrace our values.

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  17. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    James Stephenson (1,465) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 9:47 am

    The problem is that the Left have taken arguing against the premise that there’s nothing good about immigration, to an illogical conclusion where you’re only allowed to voice the opinion that there’s nothing bad about immigration.

    Not really. Nothing wrong with criticizing immigration policy. But what we have here is a bunch of people who cite no specific or quantifiable problem but instead seek to denigrate broad classes of people as being not their type of people.

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  18. kowtow (7,650 comments) says:

    Nothing cliche about the riots,welfare fraud or terrorism.

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  19. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Kea (4,440) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 10:39 am

    Weihana, I agree and I go even further with your point. We need to intergrate Asian immigrants into the day to day running of the country.

    I propose putting Asian business people in charge of hand outs to Maori and the entire welfare system. Like you say, they embrace our values.

    What are “our” values? While I agree with you on some things many other things you say I find utterly ridiculous (as you would of the things I say). Indeed, when discussing certain political ideas with some Chinese I find their attitudes to be utterly opposed to what I believe but quite in line with conservatives here (e.g. capital punishment, strong police powers, less judicial oversight and due process).

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  20. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    kowtow,

    Yes I can’t tell you how everyday I fear going to work in case I am confronted by Asian riots or a terrorist attack. :roll:

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  21. RRM (9,475 comments) says:

    I propose putting Asian business people in charge of hand outs to Maori and the entire welfare system.

    RRM likes this. :-)

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  22. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Weihana, looks like you and I largely agree then. You have reinforced my point.

    Some people are concerned about Asian immigration because of concern over the views they may hold. You have noted the same concern yourself.

    Do you like my idea of Asian business people being in charge of hand-outs ? ;)

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  23. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/17/us-sweden-immigration-idUSBRE93G06G20130417

    Sweden received 43,900 asylum seekers in 2012, a nearly 50 percent jump from 2011 and the second highest on record. Nearly half were from Syria, Afghanistan and Somalia and will get at least temporary residency – out of a total 103,000 immigrants.

    It seems to me that there is quite a difference between importing large numbers of impoverished people from areas of conflict and importing people who have obtained New Zealand qualifications and go on to get skilled employment.

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  24. hj (6,373 comments) says:

    Kea Says:

    “The USA was built on immigration and it is what made it great. The only condition is you became an American if you moved you there. Simple and effective.”
    ……….
    then there are (were) it’s resources, it’s river transportation systems and a whole lot of geographic advantages.

    Compare that to where NZ is at, timber, flax, sheep, gold, breaking in the hill country…….. and what now “gains from agglomeration”?

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  25. Bob R (1,340 comments) says:

    Sweden is a victim of its own pathological altruism when it comes to who it allows in. The Scandanavian countries are often touted by advocates of ‘Spirit Level’ type policies, but a key component of their success is they are relatively homogenous and have high levels of trust and shared values.

    That is being eroded by their haphazard approach to who they recruit to the country.

    It’s also leading to a rise in anti-semitism, which is also seen in France & the Netherlands.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/7278532/Jews-leave-Swedish-city-after-sharp-rise-in-anti-Semitic-hate-crimes.html

    http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/127076/the-very-real-jewish-exodus-from-france

    http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/I-see-no-future-for-Jews-in-the-Netherlands

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  26. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    hj, there were other factors I agree. However Africa has more resources than any place on earth and look at the state of it ! They have also had more time than any place on earth to sort themselves out. Unless people can unite they will spend too much time competing with each other.

    A fan of Jared Daimond are we ?

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  27. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Kea (4,441) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 10:56 am

    Weihana, looks like you and I largely agree then. You have reinforced my point.

    Some people are concerned about Asian immigration because of concern over the views they may hold. You have noted the same concern yourself.

    I have not raised concern over immigration based on the views they may hold (which is not to say such concerns wouldn’t ever exist). I have simply pointed out that there is no such thing as “our” values. There are things we agree on and things we don’t. The same is true for Asian migrants.

    Do you like my idea of Asian business people being in charge of hand-outs ? ;)

    No. Although the suggestion is offered in jest, the government should be in charge of handouts to reflect the will of the public. “Asian business people” should have no more authority over this or ability to impact public policy than anyone else.

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  28. hj (6,373 comments) says:

    Do you like my idea of Asian business people being in charge of hand-outs
    …………….

    do you like the clan culture??

    Those 90 to 120 restaurants along Dominion road suggest little wealth being created. Each year under the free trade agreement the government allows in 100(?) tour guides who eventually start a business (own a van) gain residency bring a wife and four parents (not to mention indispensable uncles and aunts).. and nullify much of the benefits to NZr’s of a growing tourist market.

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  29. Fletch (6,028 comments) says:

    Stuff like this is happening in the U.S also.
    Paterson, New Jersey, is an area high in Muslim population, and they have just raised a Palestinian flag over City Hall there.

    PATERSON — The raising of a flag at City Hall on Sunday was like any of the dozen or so similar events held in the city each year in a nod to its diversity.

    Except it wasn’t.

    That’s because the flag raised — for the first time in Paterson, and possibly at any city hall in the United States — was Palestinian. Symbols or assertions of Palestinian statehood are fraught with political sensitivities, and Khader Abuassab, the event’s organizer, said he received harassing phone calls before Sunday’s event.

    But no problems were on display Sunday when the flag was raised in the rain before elected officials and about 150 people. People cheered, danced, shared sweets and shouted, “Long Live Palestine.”

    “Palestine is our country and we are proud of that,” said Clifton resident Salwa Ramadan. “We’re happy [to be] recognized finally.”

    Paterson had never held the event because no one had asked, Mayor Jeffery Jones said. The mayor read a proclamation proclaiming May 19 as Palestinian American Day in the city and honoring the group’s heritage and contributions.

    He said he wasn’t concerned with potential political backlash.

    http://www.northjersey.com/community/community_events/Amid_flags_and_cheers_Paterson_celebrates_Palestinian_Americans.html

    What “heritage”? There is no such thing as a ‘Palestinian’ culture or people. Next it will be like France with its little enclaves of Muslims where even the police won’t go.

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  30. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Although the suggestion is offered in jest, the government should be in charge of handouts to reflect the will of the public.

    The government does not give handouts to Maori “to reflect the will of the public.” Most people believe in handouts based on need without regard to race or culture.

    You have talked yourself into a corner here my friend. On one hand you say there is no such thing as “our values” then go on to talk about the “public will” along with raising concerns about the views many Asians hold on some matters.

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  31. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    @James Stephenson. The English are moving out of many parts of London. The fact is, most people prefer people who look and behave like themselves. To think otherwise is wishy-woolly nonsense that needs to be prohibited by law. ;)

    Democracy may not survive in the UK. The only real hope is Germany. Sieg Heil!

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  32. hj (6,373 comments) says:

    the diversity dividend turns up a bad penny for the left:

    A Chinese immigrant is campaigning to have fellow migrants paid below the minimum wage.

    Easter Wu, who has made a name for himself as a personality in New Zealand-based Chinese media, said he supported the rights of employers to pay staff only what they are worth – even if that is below the minimum wage.

    Wu, from Auckland, has used radio air time, an internet column and online discussion forums to advocate paying illegal wage rates.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/8547481/Businessman-backs-illegal-wages-for-immigrants

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  33. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    hj (3,820) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 11:05 am

    Those 90 to 120 restaurants along Dominion road suggest little wealth being created

    I disagree. If they are profitable they are just as worthwhile as any other small business.

    and each year under the free trade agreement the government allows in 100(?) tour guides who eventually start a business (own a van)

    Any business they start will have to meet normal requirements, e.g. sustainability, profitability, benefit to NZ etc. Tourism is a major industry in this country. If they are contributing to that by attracting tourists that is a benefit to our country.

    gain residency bring a wife and four parents (not to mention indispensable uncles and aunts)..

    There’s the problem. Wife no problem. But parents? I can’t really think why that is a basis for immigration. Especially considering the very real problem of entitlement to superannuation.

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  34. hj (6,373 comments) says:

    On 60 Minutes last night the Australians traced a people smuggler (whose boat sank) to NZ where he received asylum seeker status and a state house (etc, etc) in Keith Locke Place.

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  35. dime (9,470 comments) says:

    BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Dimes enjoying watching Europe turn to shit. Those smug, socialist assholes.

    Dime has no issue with immigration, as long as they arent muslim :)

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  36. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Those 90 to 120 restaurants along Dominion road suggest little wealth being created. Each year under the free trade agreement the government allows in 100(?) tour guides who eventually start a business (own a van) gain residency bring a wife and four parents (not to mention indispensable uncles and aunts).. and nullify much of the benefits to NZr’s of a growing tourist market.

    Hard to know where to start here hj !

    How do you figure all those businesses suggest little wealth ? How do you figure that families coming here and working their arses off nullify tourism ?

    If you simply don’t like Asians, or enjoy decent food in their many and varied eating houses, then just say so. It is at least a coherent point.

    There are plenty of places in NZ to escape the Asian invasion, where you can enjoy your boiled spud, without being bothered by interesting flavours and women without fat arses.

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  37. Ashley Schaeffer (411 comments) says:

    RRM (7,232) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 10:02 am
    I believe we’ll see a mass deportation of Muslims from Europe & / or Scandinavia within the next 50 years.

    Hitler had to force the Jews into Ghettoes, the Muslims make it easy by establishing their own…

    There won’t be enough non-Mulisms to make it happen. By embracing left-wing ideology they are committing suicide. It’s probably already too late to act. Nazi style fascism is on the rise in Europe but it’s rising in lockstep with Islamic supremacy – the Jew is the common enemy to both. So sadly, I think we’re more likely to see another Holocaust against the Jews before any action is taken to counter the threat from Islam. I think a serious push-back against Islam – if one occurs – will come from countries like China and India.

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  38. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Kea (4,443) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 11:13 am

    The government does not give handouts to Maori “to reflect the will of the public.” Most people believe in handouts based on need without regard to race or culture.

    It is implied (or at least presumed), in a democratic system of government, that government policy or legislation reflects the will of the public.

    You have talked yourself into a corner here my friend. On one hand you say there is no such thing as “our values” then go on to talk about the “public will” along with raising concerns about the views many Asians hold on some matters.

    “Public will” simply means a democratic majority sufficient to effect whatever they seek to effect. That does not imply that collectively (i.e. ALL of us) share the same values. The Green Party does not share the same values as the ACT party, for instance. There is a diversity of views in our society and only very extreme views would raise concern about suitability for immigration, and in fact this is already a part of government policy. For instance, racism would raise a character concern on a visa application. But certainly it would seem ridiculous to filter migrants based on viewpoints that are commonly accepted to be within the normal range of political viewpoints and which are commonly argued for on this very blog.

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  39. Bob R (1,340 comments) says:

    ***I believe we’ll see a mass deportation of Muslims from Europe & / or Scandinavia within the next 50 years.***

    @ RRM,

    That is unlikely to happen. You can look at the following two cases to see why.

    Exhibit A) A country where the politicians consider they have a right to exist and put their voters first and protect their interests.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/02/israel-african-immigrant-deportations_n_2397018.html

    Exhibit B) A country where the politicians and media feel they have no legitimate right to exist, are burdened by a sense of historical guilt, and therefore can’t act to protect the interests of their voters.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2328035/Machete-killer-Kenyan-man-butchered-400-people-homeland-stay-UK-benefits.html

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  40. hj (6,373 comments) says:

    Weihana (3,151) Says:

    I disagree. If they are profitable they are just as worthwhile as any other small business.
    ……
    I recall the IRD found a dearth of tax revenue. What’s more the acid test is cost benefit to the existing population since immigration policy is *supposed* to be moderated for the benefit of current citizens.

    “Any business they start will have to meet normal requirements, e.g. sustainability, profitability, benefit to NZ etc. Tourism is a major industry in this country. If they are contributing to that by attracting tourists that is a benefit to our country.”

    what is beneficial to a country does not necessarly benefit current citizens and (arguably) benefits a wealthy influential elite.

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  41. dime (9,470 comments) says:

    “I think a serious push-back against Islam – if one occurs – will come from countries like China and India.” – yep. They wont cop shit for long.

    We just need the UK & France to give up their nukes.

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  42. hj (6,373 comments) says:

    As the Savings Working Group said:

    “The big adverse gap in productivity between New Zealand and other countries opened up from the 1970s to the early 1990s. The policy choice that increased immigration – given the number of employers increasingly unable to pay First-World wages to the existing population and all the capital requirements that increasing populations involve – looks likely to have worked almost directly against the adjustment New Zealand needed to make and it might have been better off with a lower rate of net immigration. This adjustment would have involved a lower real interest rate (and cost of capital) and a lower real exchange rate, meaning a more favourable environment for raising the low level of productive capital per worker and labour productivity. The low level of capital per worker is a striking symptom of New Zealand’s economic challenge.

    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/reviews-consultation/savingsworkinggroup/pdfs/swg-report-jan11.pdf

    So where are all those small business people living? Who paid for the infrastructure? Who can’t afford a house due to infrastructure bottle necks (that’s one of the reasons cited for developers not building on land already available)?

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  43. Harriet (4,527 comments) says:

    If just less than 4% of the population can intergrate THEIR values into a 2000yld institution, with the help of a wilfuly compliant media & political class, and who practise the finer points of the dark arts of politics and propaganda, imagine then, what 10 tribes @ 5% can then intergrate into the ‘fabric of NZ society?

    Well I’ll tell you what:

    Nothing homogenous! :cool:

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  44. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Weihana (3,152) Says:

    May 22nd, 2013 at 11:29 am

    There is no democratic majority in favour of race based funding and you can be certain the democratic majority of Chinese would not think it appropriate.

    You are attempting to distinguish this as a special case and failing miserably. The fact is you do want to preserve some things regardless of what the majority of people want.

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  45. alloytoo (434 comments) says:

    Why to these articles always talk about “What” the police did, and never about the abuse they receive,

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  46. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    hj (3,823) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 11:30 am

    I recall the IRD found a dearth of tax revenue. What’s more the acid test is cost benefit to the existing population since immigration policy is *supposed* to be moderated for the benefit of current citizens.

    So prosecute. What kind of logic says “This other Chinese restaurant was a tax cheat. You want to open up a Chinese restaurant. You must be a tax cheat”.

    what is beneficial to a country does not necessarly benefit current citizens and (arguably) benefits a wealthy influential elite.

    Only the influential elite work in the tourism industry? Suffice to say there is a lot of generalizing going on here and without reference to some specific examples it’s difficult to know what a correct policy response might be.

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  47. hj (6,373 comments) says:

    Kea Says:

    How do you figure all those businesses suggest little wealth ? How do you figure that families coming here and working their arses off nullify tourism ?
    ……………..

    but it isn’t about benefiting tourism it is (primarily) about the effect on existing citizens. Go ask the people of Thailand.
    ……….
    “There are plenty of places in NZ to escape the Asian invasion, where you can enjoy your boiled spud, without being bothered by interesting flavours and women without fat arses.”

    We already have plenty of Asians here now compared to previous times and a large variety of ethnic foods. How does it follow that we shouldn’t control immigration?

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  48. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Kea (4,446) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 11:38 am

    Weihana (3,152) Says:

    May 22nd, 2013 at 11:29 am

    There is no democratic majority in favour of race based funding and you can be certain the democratic majority of Chinese would not think it appropriate.

    Last time I checked Parliament was supreme and it was elected by proportional representation. If this majority is not happy with the status quo then what is preventing them from changing it?

    You are attempting to distinguish this as a special case and failing miserably. The fact is you do want to preserve some things regardless of what the majority of people want.

    Yes I agree, I do want to preserve some things. I do have opinions and a mind of my own regardless of what the majority thinks. But it does not follow that I should seek to prejudice migrants based on a stereotype of “Asian business people”.

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  49. Bob R (1,340 comments) says:

    ***very creative lexicon to avoid saying what they really feel: “not enough white people”.***

    @ Weihana,

    It’s human nature for people to feel less alienated when they see more of their own group around. There’s a higher level of trust. It’s not a good or bad thing, it’s just human nature if you look at it objectively.

    “But a massive new study, based on detailed interviews of nearly 30,000 people across America, has concluded just the opposite. Harvard political scientist Robert Putnam — famous for “Bowling Alone,” his 2000 book on declining civic engagement — has found that the greater the diversity in a community, the fewer people vote and the less they volunteer, the less they give to charity and work on community projects. In the most diverse communities, neighbors trust one another about half as much as they do in the most homogenous settings. The study, the largest ever on civic engagement in America, found that virtually all measures of civic health are lower in more diverse settings.”

    http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/?page=full

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  50. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    hj, I acknowlege that great food and gorgeous well educated women who know how to behave responsibly (with the associated lack of crime and welfare dependancy) has reached troubling levels in some areas. The left must be very concerned at seeing its voting base diminish like this.

    Best we bring in more vapid drunken English to correct this emerging disaster.

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  51. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    hj (3,825) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 11:44 am

    We already have plenty of Asians here now compared to previous times and a large variety of ethnic foods. How does it follow that we shouldn’t control immigration?

    But control it on what basis? It’s all well and good to talk of a general principle that immigration policy should seek to benefit existing citizens, but I fail to see the relevance of the number of Asians or the variety of ethnic foods. These are just arbitrary considerations.

    I thought the reference to the parent category would be a good place to start and it doesn’t require prejudicing an entire ethnic group based on some anecdotes, it just requires observing that old people receive entitlements and the requirements of the parent category will not justify this liability.

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  52. Bob R (1,340 comments) says:

    @ Ashley Schaeffer,

    It seems if you look at parties like Geert Wilders party, they are very pro-Israel. The growth in popularity of parties like Wilder’s Europe is partly in response to the main parties ignoring majority concerns about demographic changes.

    http://www.pewglobal.org/2007/10/04/world-publics-welcome-global-trade-but-not-immigration/

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  53. Bob R (1,340 comments) says:

    ***But control it on what basis?***

    @ Weihana,

    You could look to control it by seeking to stabilise rather than continually increase the population. The price of housing and implications for affordable family formation suggests the current level is too high.

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  54. hj (6,373 comments) says:

    Weihana (3,153) Says

    “So prosecute. What kind of logic says “This other Chinese restaurant was a tax cheat. You want to open up a Chinese restaurant. You must be a tax cheat”.”
    ….
    that wasn’t the point. We are lead to believe that migrants are here for the benefit of NZr’s; this looks like they are scratching to make a living.

    What bothers me is: a.immigration is being used to benefit the property sector and: b. you create a conflict whereby people on the ground see a different reality to that proffered by ivory towered liberal elites. Imagine a couple marry and a step- brother is moved into another brothers bedroom (sort of situation). Like, how many people really believe the meme about “land supply” in Auckland while they are being told how zillions will be arriving and it is all good! good! good!

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  55. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    But it does not follow that I should seek to prejudice migrants based on a stereotype of “Asian business people”.

    So you are ok with Asian immigrants being in charge of hand-outs to Maori ?

    I reckon my idea will appeal to the majority of Kiwis. I also note that Chinese are under represented in the political process.

    As for “stereotypes” they are a generalisation, which means they are “generally” (mostly) correct. There are sound evolutionary reasons as to why we draw conclusions in this way. We would not be here if we did not stereotype. If a big nasty thing with claws and fangs walks up to us snarling, our ancestors did not stop to consider that “not all” such things are aggressive and we should not “stereotype”. It is simply an effective means to make rapid decisions based on limited information. It is not evil or wrong. It does not imply treating others badly either.

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  56. hj (6,373 comments) says:

    Kea (4,448) Says:
    ….
    The thing is that the fat arsed lazy Kiwis are already here and take priority.

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  57. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Bob R (1,029) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 11:46 am

    It’s human nature for people to feel less alienated when they see more of their own group around. There’s a higher level of trust. It’s not a good or bad thing, it’s just human nature if you look at it objectively.

    Agree, and a great article.


    “It would be unfortunate if a politically correct progressivism were to deny the reality of the challenge to social solidarity posed by diversity,” he writes in the new report. “It would be equally unfortunate if an ahistorical and ethnocentric conservatism were to deny that addressing that challenge is both feasible and desirable.”

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  58. Bob R (1,340 comments) says:

    *** Few countries in Europe have managed this. I’m pleased to say that New Zealand largely does.***

    @ DPF,

    NZ probably has greater success in part because it focuses on skilled immigration. Economist Tino Sanandaji sets out that Sweden has a problem assimilating low skilled newcomers from significantly different cultures. But that is also the case in places like NZ also if you look at employment figures. Sanandaji writes:

    “The figures refer to the number employed as the share of the 15-65 population for each immigrant group.

    Immigrants from Iraq:
    Sverige 29%.
    Danmark 22%
    Storbrittanien 42%
    Nya Zeeland 40%
    Australien 32%
    Kanada 52%
    USA 62%

    Immigrants from Afghanistan:
    Sverige 24%.
    Danmark 18%
    Storbrittanien 23%
    Nya Zeeland 23%
    Australien 34%
    Kanada 46%
    USA 54%

    Immigrants from Somalia:
    Sverige 24%.
    Danmark 16%
    Storbrittanien 15%
    Nya Zeeland 25%
    Australien 22%
    Kanada 36%
    USA 52%

    As usual the U.S does best, but no country approaches full integration. Clearly neo-liberalism is not a magic bullet which will fix immigration.”

    http://super-economy.blogspot.co.nz/2012/09/free-market-economies-also-struggle.html

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  59. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    …but I fail to see the relevance of the number of Asians or the variety of ethnic foods. These are just arbitrary considerations.

    The variety of ethnic foods is not an “arbitrary” consideration you laowai barbarian !

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  60. hj (6,373 comments) says:

    Weihana (3,156) Says:

    But control it on what basis?
    ………………………
    On the basis of what is good for the country as a whole not just developers and property investors.

    “Among policy and analytical circles in New Zealand there is a pretty high degree of enthusiasm for high levels of immigration. Some of that stems from the insights of literature on increasing returns to scale. Whatever the general global story, the actual productivity track record here in the wake of very strong inward migration is poor. In an Australian context, the Productivity Commission – hardly a hot-bed of xenophobia or populism – concluded that any benefits from migration to Australia were captured by migrants and there were few or no discernible economic benefits to Australians. And that was in a country already rich and successful and with materially higher national saving and domestic investment rates than those in NZ.”
    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/downloads/pdfs/mi-jarrett-comm.pdf

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  61. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    So scary.
    /

    http://petapixel.com/2013/05/12/photographing-the-national-convention-of-the-national-socialist-movement/

    http://www.vice.com/read/the-malaysian-nazis-fighting-for-a-pure-race

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  62. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    The thing is that the fat arsed lazy Kiwis are already here and take priority.

    hj, Agreed, but take priority over what ?

    If fat arsed lazy Kiwis want to open lots of food shops in Dominion Rd they are free to do so and the free market will sort out who survives. They are also free to open Corner Dairies, though this has never been tested ;)

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  63. Jack5 (4,595 comments) says:

    I don’t see what’s wrong with assimilation. It’s a strategy that has worked round the world for millennia.

    I always thought that what the USA does is assimilate, and it seems to have worked well for it.

    Integration without assimilation is Belgium, which is always threatening to fly apart.

    In NZ we have the ludicrous requests/suggestions that we add to our official languages a slew of tiny Pacific Island tongues, such as those of Niue, Tonga, Western Samoa, Fiji. Having as our first language the current world lingua franca, English, is a tremendous national advantage. So is our familiarity with American culture, the lingua franca of popular cultures.

    When the Dutch were coming to NZ under assisted migration after World War 2, I think they were settled for the first two years in regions, then they could do as they wished. The Dutch immigration was highly successful, giving NZ hard working, satisfied new citizens who both held their culture but became highly assimilated. There was no call for Dutch to be an official language, no special schools were opened for them, there was no Ministry of Dutch Affairs.

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  64. Jack5 (4,595 comments) says:

    Kea posted at 12.09:

    …they are also free to open Corner Dairies…

    Was that a typo, Kea, for: “…they are also free to open Corner druggeries…”

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  65. Sam Buchanan (502 comments) says:

    “The USA was built on immigration and it is what made it great. The only condition is you became an American if you moved you there. ”

    Yup, apparently they made everyone take lessons in buffalo hunting and shamanistic ceremonies to make sure everyone could fit in with the locals.

    Actually, immigrants to the USA took a long time to integrate, often speaking their own languages for decades – hence all the Yiddish and Italian language newspapers that existed there – immigrant communities were often seen as criminal and anti-Americxan. There were riots, strikes and disputes. Immigrants often worked their arses off for little reward. There was no easy assimilation process into the dominant, and itself alien, WASP culture. It was only when the Anglo cultural dominance began to break down that immigrants were really able to integrate.

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  66. Steve Wrathall (243 comments) says:

    As always, Pat Condell nails it:

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  67. kowtow (7,650 comments) says:

    Bob r quotes”significantly different cultures”, in non PC English that translates to ‘Muslim”.

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  68. Bob R (1,340 comments) says:

    ***I always thought that what the USA does is assimilate, and it seems to have worked well for it.***

    @ Jack5,

    If you look at the history of the US, it’s been very much restricted to immigration from Europe.

    Only since 1965 has it had significant immigration from non-european countries. And there are significant issues with the assimilation of those from Mexico, which is leading to problems for places like California.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112167023

    http://us.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/05/03/frum.immigration.education/index.html

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  69. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Sam Buchanan , I was stating the -ideal- they were striving for. It is very different from the multicultural model that attempts to maintain and foster difference, which they re-label as diversity.

    I try and keep my posts brief, so I shy away from qualifiying everything I say.

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  70. Bob R (1,340 comments) says:

    *** There were riots, strikes and disputes. Immigrants often worked their arses off for little reward.***

    heh @ Sam Buchanan,

    Clearly now that the evil WASP’s have been eclipsed that no longer occurs :)

    A significant factor in the integration was also the restriction of immigration following 1924. Today, as noted above, assimilation isn’t occuring at the same rate.

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  71. Muzza M (291 comments) says:

    I know a bunch of Turks who immigrated to Nelson. They have assimilated into Kiwi culture very well. They were sickened by 9/11 and were very worried about repercussions, fortunately this didn’t happen. They are all running successful businesses and sending their older kids to university to study useful subjects like medicine, nursing, pharmacy, law and commerce. They want their kids to not have to open kebab shops. However I may be biased cause I am addicted to their food.

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  72. hj (6,373 comments) says:

    “Peter highlights that we have a relatively high rate of natural increase in population.
    But we also have a large and persistent outflow of NZers (large by any comparative
    international standards). That outflow should best be seen as a rational response to
    perceived opportunities – those abroad are better than those here. Outflows of New
    Zealanders should generally act as a stabilizing force, helping to rebalance the
    economy. Economies with slow growing populations need to devote a whole lot
    smaller proportion of their real resources to simply maintaining the capital stock per
    worker.
    Based solely on the fertility and migration choices of New Zealanders (each
    presumably behaving fairly rationally), our population growth would have been
    growing only quite slowly since the mid 1970s. As it is, our population growth since
    1990 has been second or third fastest in the OECD. What changed? Migration
    policy did in the early 1990s.
    And 80% of our population growth in the last couple of decades has been the net
    inflow of non NZ citizens – thus almost purely a matter of discretionary policy
    choice.
    Government policy interventions can act to stymie successful adjustment -
    and I believe this to have been the case in NZ over the last two decades. Our negative
    NIIP position is larger, our real exchange rate is higher, our real interest rates are
    higher, and our capital stock per worker (and associated perceived business
    opportunities) are lower than they would have been if we had simply let the self-
    stabilising behavior take its course. As John McDermott’s slides showed earlier, that
    adjustment was working prior to the mid 1980s.
    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/downloads/pdfs/mi-jarrett-comm.pdf

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  73. Rightandleft (638 comments) says:

    Integrating immigrants is a two-way street. Immigrants need to be willing to integrate themselves and to consider themselves as belonging to their new homeland. But the native-born population also needs to be willing to accept the immigrants as their countrymen. I’m perfectly happy to become a New Zealander, but I’ve met Kiwis who say even if I live here till I’m 80 I’ll never be a NZer in their view, I’ll never fit in. That kind of hostile attitude can lead to alienation just as surely as immigrants self-segregating and refusing to integrate can.

    New Zealand, like the US, Australia and Canada, has an advantage in that it is a young country built on immigration. It is much more difficult for immigrants to be accepted as equals in a European society that has existed for hundreds if not thousands of years and sees itself as more than a nationality, but also a unique ethnicity from which all immigrants are forever excluded. Being a New Zealander or American etc. is more about accepting a set of ideas and values that define these democratic, tolerant societies. Becoming English or Swedish is not really possible for a migrant, nor even for their children or grand-children, because they will never be ethnically English or Swedish.

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  74. wreck1080 (3,734 comments) says:

    @Weihana

    It appears you believe the immigration policies of the UK have worked well.

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  75. Ashley Schaeffer (411 comments) says:

    Bob R (1,035) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 11:54 am
    @ Ashley Schaeffer,
    It seems if you look at parties like Geert Wilders party, they are very pro-Israel. The growth in popularity of parties like Wilder’s Europe is partly in response to the main parties ignoring majority concerns about demographic changes.

    I would definitely exclude Geert Wilders and his party from my comments on the rise of Nazi style fascism in Europe. I was thinking more of the likes of Beppe Grillo.

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  76. hj (6,373 comments) says:

    Peter Hitchens:

    When I was a Revolutionary Marxist, we were all in favour of as much immigration as possible.

    It wasn’t because we liked immigrants, but because we didn’t like Britain. We saw immigrants – from anywhere – as allies against the staid, settled, conservative society that our country still was at the end of the Sixties.

    Also, we liked to feel oh, so superior to the bewildered people – usually in the poorest parts of Britain – who found their neighbourhoods suddenly transformed into supposedly ‘vibrant communities’.

    If they dared to express the mildest objections, we called them bigots.

    Revolutionary students didn’t come from such ‘vibrant’ areas (we came, as far as I could tell, mostly from Surrey and the nicer parts of London).

    We might live in ‘vibrant’ places for a few (usually squalid) years, amid unmown lawns and overflowing dustbins.

    But we did so as irresponsible, childless transients – not as homeowners, or as parents of school-age children, or as old people hoping for a bit of serenity at the ends of their lives.

    When we graduated and began to earn serious money, we generally headed for expensive London enclaves and became extremely choosy about where our children went to school, a choice we happily denied the urban poor, the ones we sneered at as ‘racists’.

    What did we know, or care, of the great silent revolution which even then was beginning to transform the lives of the British poor?

    To us, it meant patriotism and tradition could always be derided as ‘racist’.
    http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2013/04/how-i-am-partly-to-blame-for-mass-immigration.html

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  77. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    hj, I know what Hitchens thinks and what I think. What do you think we need to do with immigration policy ?

    I see both sides of this one. Surprisingly some immigrants are against mass immigration, including of their own people.

    I think it is ok to preserve your culture. I think anyone who is allowed to come here should be embraced as one of us, but we are under no obligation to take them in as immigrants in the first place.

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  78. hj (6,373 comments) says:

    hj, I know what Hitchens thinks and what I think. What do you think we need to do with immigration policy ?
    ………………………….
    I think we need to go back to control the numbers. As noted above immigration policy changed in the 1990′s without any consultation. I’m not saying where they should or shouldn’t come from however current immigration policy seems to be a pincer movement between powerful business interests and (the sort of people Peter Hitchens describes on) the left. The whole debate on population has been silenced thanks to those two elements and any objections are attacked as racism, xenophobia or economic illiteracy. I would like to see land taxes introduced since one of the main drivers of population increase is the capture of capital gains by landed interests.

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  79. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    Yup, apparently they made everyone take lessons in buffalo hunting and shamanistic ceremonies to make sure everyone could fit in with the locals.

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  80. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    hj, we have considerable common ground. One thing I am wary of is encouraging people to alienate or give a hard-time to existing immigrants. As far as I am concerned once we let them in they are Kiwis, and I do not care if they are Chinese, Muslim, or even (God forbid) English !

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  81. hj (6,373 comments) says:

    The Arrogant Left.

    What Diversity Dividend?
    by Massey sociologist Professor Paul Spoonley )

    “Brickley Paiste” Comments:

    Fantastic piece. Thanks so much.

    Vancouver’s experience is probably like Canada’s on the whole. Trudeau brought in multiculturalism by federal directive in the 70s (“Although there are two founding peoples there is no founding culture…” and that mirrored Laurier before him…) Then in 1982, multiculturalism was enshrined in the Charter. Then in the mid-80s a Conservative PM enacted the “Multiculturalism Act”.

    Now in Canada’s large cities it’s somewhat amusing to hear people speaking English. Fourth generation Canadians are seen as an amusing relic. Do you eat roasts? Do your parents wear sweaters to dinner and talk about classical music, ha ha ha?

    The reality is that in NZ, the hegemony of Anglo Saxon culture refuses to die. The Interfaith dialogue was a fantastic example of that. Also, we never had (much) immigration from Central, Eastern or Southern Europe. We still treat South Africans and Pomps as “one of us”.

    Most people that run this country (wealthy baby boomers) grew up not knowing anyone from different cultures and didn’t travel much when they were young. There is still a serious fear of the unknown. Let’s be honest, we NZers didn’t travel at all until very recently. There were really no coffee shops or restaurants in this country until the 90s for chrissake. How can you expect the political class to suddenly embrace all these different people?

    That MP from Rodney would have had to flee the country in Canada after making jokes about fruit pickers during an election. The current PM didn’t even growl him let alone cut him loose. That would have been hanging offence #1 short of having kiddie porn or eating one’s young.

    The truth is that non-white and non-English speaking immigrants to this country feel no particular sentimental loyalty to NZ. Most of them I speak to, and I speak to many, want to move to Aussie/Canada/USA. On a cynical realpolitik level, they are a somewhat unclaimed cohort of voters.

    The magic that Trudeau created was that almost all of the immigrant communities in Canada became loyal to the Liberals.

    In reality we suffer from the lamest form of racism: we’re kind of embarrassed by their accents and funny foods. At worst, we have Winston. At least Melissa Lee properly slammed Winston in her maiden speech.

    It was on that basis that I felt Shearer’s election was a failure. Helen got the nod and it was a big deal that it went to a woman. Then it reverted to a physically capable, heterosexual, white, educated and wealthy male. Yipdee fucking shit.
    …………………………..

    so you can see what insipid soup NZ culture was (he/she thought): they wore cardigans and ate roasts. But what (he/she) is arguing for is not just that NZr’s are introduced to new foods etc but that in places like Alexandra there should also be equals of bushmen and Bedouin and Bangladeshi’s.

    there is also a comment from

    Sacha, (cha?)
    Twitter

    wrest control of our destiny from ourselves

    Comes down to who we think “ourselves” is, and whether we acknowledge it changes over time.

    http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-what-diversity-dividend/?i=25#replies

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  82. hj (6,373 comments) says:

    Kea (4,463) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    hj, we have considerable common ground. One thing I am wary of is encouraging people to alienate or give a hard-time to existing immigrants. As far as I am concerned once we let them in they are Kiwis, and I do not care if they are Chinese, Muslim, or even (God forbid) English !
    …….
    yes I agree with that, although I do agree with many of the others that while we allow religious freedom we don’t have to tolerate religious beliefs that don’t reciprocate.

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  83. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    hj, yes. If there is cultural conflict the guest culture must defer. It is seldom this genuinely occurs. Usually we see shit stirrers going out of their way to be “offended”.

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  84. kowtow (7,650 comments) says:

    sam buchanan buffalos ,shamanism and immigrants.

    A heck of a lot of the soldiers who served with Custer creating the American dream were Germans and Irish. (Not too many got to integrate too well after the Little Big Horn) but they were full members of American society and doing their duty.

    the cavalry still use the Irish tune Garryowen.

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  85. Akaroa (541 comments) says:

    Being an immigrant to NZ myself – (1974 – Ex-UK) – I reflect on the fact that the UK is to a large extent an immigrant nation.

    Have a look at the history of good old roast beef eating, Eton boating song, Welsh Choir, Bag-piping Great Britain.

    Who are the British I hear you ask? Who indeed!!

    In UK you can go back as far as the immigration of the Nordic Anglo-Saxons followed by the French Normans, the ever-arriving Irish, the Flemish weavers, the Jews fleeing Hitler, the Poles fleeing Communism, the Ukranian miners to work in the Welsh pits, the West Indians who brightened up Post WW2 UK no end, the Pakistanis (or Pakis in the vernacular), the Indians, the post-uprising Hungarians, the Chinese in Limehouse.

    And so they continue to come!!

    In my former home town of Leicester is the colourful and vibrant Indian/Pakistani Belgrave suburb, Jewish Highfields suburb, etc., etc – a pattern that can be encountered in many British cities.

    So?. What am i saying? I’m saying don’t bemoan or resist immigration. Its what keeps a nation growing, vibrant and on its toes. The alternative is communal, social and cultural stagnation.

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  86. Sam Buchanan (502 comments) says:

    “Only since 1965 has it had significant immigration from non-european countries.”

    Really? Where did all those black dudes come from?

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  87. kowtow (7,650 comments) says:

    Muslim immigrants are different and dangerous.

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  88. Harriet (4,527 comments) says:

    For poorer people, immigration was a concrete issue, as immigrants moved into their neighborhoods and went to school with their children. To put it bluntly, for those with money, globalization initially meant that they could travel on holidays to exotic lands and treat the world as their playground. For those who were less well off, it meant that the entire world suddenly moved into their street and took over their children’s local playground.

    When the Titanic during her maiden voyage across the Atlantic Ocean struck an iceberg just before midnight on 14 April 1912, the first people who could see the water pouring in were the third-class passengers who happened to be situated closest to the waterline. Meanwhile, the richest passengers at the top were drinking fine cognac long after the ship had started sinking. They didn’t realize what was going on for quite some time, because they were further removed from the physical problem. The poor passengers still unfortunately suffered the highest fatality rates, because the wealthy benefitted from having privileged access to the lifeboats.

    We see the same phenomenon on display today, on a much larger scale. Having Islamophobia in Europe today is just as rational as having icebergophobia on board the Titanic in 1912.

    Uhrskov Jensen in 2012 published another book, Indvandringens Pris (“The Price of Immigration”) about how much money non-European mass immigration costs his native Denmark. His conclusion is that this cost is great in terms of welfare payments and rising crime combined with declining efficiency and technological innovation.

    He shows through carefully researched statistics that only certain Asian immigrants are able to keep up with northern Europeans in the educational system. A few skilled immigrants from India or elsewhere can compete, but mainly those from East Asia: Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, and to some extent Vietnamese. All other non-Western immigrants show lower levels of skill and competence than Europeans, many of them a lot lower.

    It should be mentioned here that these numbers correlate quite well with average IQ, where a few other Asians can compete with Europeans, but primarily East Asians. Other ethnic groups cannot do so. Although it has become taboo to say this in the modern Western world, it is well-documented fact that IQ correlates well with economic level, for individuals as well as for nations. The scholar Charles Murray has written much about this.

    For decades Westerners have been told that immigration from less developed Third World countries is “good for the economy” and will “pay for future pensions.” Morten Uhrskov Jensen proves conclusively that this claim is fundamentally wrong, not just regarding Denmark or Scandinavia but for other Western countries, too.

    Certain private companies may enjoy short-term benefits by having access to cheap labor and borderless export markets. Socialist parties can cynically import a reliable voter base of backward peoples who overwhelmingly vote for left-wing parties so they can receive generous welfare payments from the high tax payments extracted from the majority population, essentially forcing the white natives to fund their own colonization by foreign peoples.

    For the country as a whole, however, non-European mass immigration will in the long run turn out to be an unmitigated social and economic disaster. The direct and indirect costs of today’s immigration policies through rising crime, increased corruption and higher welfare costs plus declining competitiveness, innovation and genetic intelligence add escalating costs to countries already in trouble due to rising deficits and mushrooming debt.

    These warnings were left unheeded by political leaders, yet the problem hasn’t gone away. In 2012, the business daily Dagens Næringsliv reported that researcher Erling Holmøy from Statistics Norway together with senior advisor Birger Strøm studied how immigration affects government budgets. They concluded that in the long run it would prove to be very costly, stating that mass immigration bears certain similarities to a pyramid scheme.

    Author Morten Uhrskov Jensen states that the basic trends are identical in Sweden, France, Germany and the USA. The only reasonable conclusion to be drawn from this is, in his view, to stop all non-Western mass immigration. Yet the Western political elites continue to promote such mass immigration, in spite of mounting evidence that this is greatly harmful to their own countries. This dangerous stubbornness could be due to ideological blindness, or may be because the political elites see their positions, prestige and personal privileges tied to maintaining the status quo.

    In the end, the historian Uhrskov Jensen fears that only a massive traumatic event or a major shock to the system can change the direction the Western world is currently headed and reestablish reasonable and sensible immigration policies that are in line with the long-term interests of the European majority population.

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  89. Jack5 (4,595 comments) says:

    Akaroa posted at 5.19:

    … I’m saying don’t bemoan or resist immigration. Its what keeps a nation growing, vibrant and on its toes. The alternative is communal, social and cultural stagnation…

    There is much to be said for the stimulus that can come from the meeting of cultures. However, Akaroa goes too far.

    China, the fastest growing economy and soon to be co-world leader with the USA is a homogeneous nation, with Han ethnically, culturally, and politically overwhelmingly the dominant group. Japan is another very homogeneous country that is among the world’s leading economies.

    In north-west Europe, the highly homogeneous Finns have superb education and a bustling, economy well ahead of NZ in technology.

    You would have to say Israel is genetically homogeneous, even including the Israeli Arab minority. It is doing very well in growth, and has set up high technology industries on a scale NZ can only dream of.

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  90. Left Right and Centre (2,823 comments) says:

    Kea 3:25 pm Yes- They all magically become ‘kiwis’ as soon as they hit luggage claim. Good one.

    I was at the Courtenay Place Bakery- Asian woman there? Not a word of English. Well Kea… that’s one of those non-English speaking Kiwis then. Interesting. I don’t think so dude. Can’t agree with that one.

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  91. God Bless Israel (1 comment) says:

    This is what happens when Muslims are given the respect and equality they seek through violence – all the bleeding hearts crying out for human rights, so called “peace activist” are turned a blind eye to Reality.

    Why European media chooses to use the term “youth” instead of saying the truth? Why not call a spade a spade – Muslim terrorists!

    Ohh maybe because 50,000,000 Muslims slowly taking over your capital cities and Destroy your culture, your wives, your national pride from the inside?

    Europeans followed the Nazi propaganda which led to the destruction of the continent, And now falling into the trap of Islamic propaganda.

    Stop denying the truth!!

    All mass killing since World War II were made by Muslims all over the world!

    Murder, hijackings, kidnapping hostages, stoning, poison, terror attacks and counting…

    They aimed their rage toward non-Muslims, Jews, Christians, gays, women, Muslims who left the religion, Even among them -Sunni and Shi’ite, The Arab spring in Libya, Egypt Tunisia Syria and counting..!
    and basically anyone who opposes Islam.

    Meanwhile, voices are heard in Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, the UK and other countries such as South Africa, Global voices that call to boycott Israel.

    Funny huh?

    It’s seems like the Islamization of Europe is at is pick

    You are all aware of the situation but are afraid to act – then at least do not bother those who swore never again be led like sheep to the slaughter and give Israel the mandate to act

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  92. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Left Right and Centre (716) Says:
    May 23rd, 2013 at 1:39 am
    Kea 3:25 pm Yes- They all magically become ‘kiwis’ as soon as they hit luggage claim. Good one.

    I was at the Courtenay Place Bakery- Asian woman there? Not a word of English. Well Kea… that’s one of those non-English speaking Kiwis then. Interesting. I don’t think so dude. Can’t agree with that one.

    Maybe she just did not want to speak with you LRC ? ;)

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  93. Sam Buchanan (502 comments) says:

    “Stop denying the truth!! All mass killing since World War II were made by Muslims all over the world!”

    Yes few people seem aware that Pol Pot, Mao, Milosevic, the US troops at My Lai, Stalin and Rios Montt werre all secretly Muslim. I blame the liberal media.

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