The Nisbet cartoon

May 31st, 2013 at 10:00 am by David Farrar

290513 The Marlborough Express Al Nisbet cartoon

 

Stuff reports:

Prime Minister John Key has urged critics of about the the Government’s breakfast in schools programme to accept cartoonists can blow things out of proportion.

While he had not seen the cartoons, Key said he had heard second hand reports about them and understood they may not be to everyone’s taste.

“By the description I was given it certainly could be offensive to people.”

As a general rule, however, he tried not to comment too much on cartoons.

“I’m often the source of the humour in them, if you like, and I try and take it all with a grain of salt because cartoonists are notorious for taking a mile out of an inch.”

Wise advice. I suspect what many hate about it, isn’t the skin colour of two of those featured, but the political message the cartoon sends.

I wonder how many of them complained when a cartoonist compared Paula Bennett to Josef Mengele, because she (shock horror) supported free contraception for beneficiaries?

His comments came after Race Relations Commissioner said the cartoons were offensive and appalling.

Her distaste for them has spurred her to question the high threshold required for a finding of within the commission’s inquiries and complaints process. The threshold under the law was “very high” and was about inciting racial disharmony.

“Perhaps it is not right that the threshold is that high,” but that was a matter for the Government she said.

Asked why anyone should make a complaint about the cartoons when the threshold for what was considered racism was so high, she replied: “I ask myself that all the time”.

I’m against any change to the threshold. The threshold for the state to actually prosecute people for what they say should be incredibly high.

If people don’t like the cartoon, then they should express that to the newspaper. They can choose to boycott it. They can set up criticism sites. The best antidote to speech you don’t like is more speech, not less speech.

I don’t actually like the cartoon myself.  I wouldn’t publish it on Kiwiblog* if a cartoonist submitted it to me, but that is my decision to make.

* Yes, it has of course now been published here, but that is in the context of reporting on the controversy about it.

Tags: , , ,

195 Responses to “The Nisbet cartoon”

  1. iMP (2,152 comments) says:

    I agree with JK. Is this RACIST, Susan Devoy? Chew on this Cobb (cartoon) from Oz.

    http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/05/31/is-this-racist-susan-devoy/

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    It just hit the truth right between the eyes…..gold.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. Redbaiter (6,478 comments) says:

    “cartoonists are notorious for taking a mile out of an inch.”

    No Mr. Key, the cartoonist was deadly accurate and you are a damn fool for allowing the left and Hone in particular to lead you by the nose. “Taking the wind out of the left’s sails” just does not cut it. This is just spineless appeasement.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    I suspect what many hate about it, isn’t the skin colour of two of those featured, but the political message the cartoon sends.

    Indeed –
    I don’t like the cartoon because it pretends unfed little children don’t exist, and diminishes / ignores their misfortune. Not so much because of the race thing….

    Have you seen The Civilian’s ‘Vulgar cartoon offends everyone equally’? :-)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. Redbaiter (6,478 comments) says:

    “I don’t like the cartoon because it pretends unfed little children don’t exist, and diminishes / ignores their misfortune.”

    What utter crap. The cartoonist with his frank and open approach probably has more idea about caring for kids in his little finger than you (a self deceiving socialist) do in your whole body.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    There’s nothing clever or thought-provoking about expressing widespread racial stereotypes.

    No one’s reading that cartoon and thinking, “Wow, great point. What a rare perspective on this issue.”

    That said, the only penalty Nisbet should face is the penalty of being recognised as an unimaginative mainstream-thinking doodler stirring up complaint for its own sake.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. Bob R (1,250 comments) says:

    *** wonder how many of them complained when a cartoonist compared Paula Bennett to Josef Mengele, because she (shock horror) supported free contraception for beneficiaries?***

    Exactly right. People get outraged when their sacred values are offended, but the cartoonist is doing what cartoonists generally do. Professor Jonathan Haidt discusses this tribal morality in the context of the social sciences, but it applies here too:

    ““If a group circles around sacred values, they will evolve into a tribal-moral community,” he said. “They’ll embrace science whenever it supports their sacred values, but they’ll ditch it or distort it as soon as it threatens a sacred value…

    Dr. Haidt said. “It blamed the victims rather than the powerful. The outrage ultimately led to his resignation. We psychologists should have been outraged by the outrage. We should have defended his right to think freely.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/science/08tier.html?_r=0

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    The cartoon is par for the course.
    It’s absurd for the Stone Agers to get upset and feel offended by it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    I don’t like the cartoon because it pretends unfed little children don’t exist, and diminishes / ignores their misfortune. Not so much because of the race thing….

    RRM…stop talking bullshit. The cartoon says no such thing. It targets those specific scumbag “parents” who don’t look after their kids…..and satirically amplifies their disconnect. Its social satire gold and does its job perfectly.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    The cartoonist probably has more idea about caring for kids in his little finger than you do in your whole body.

    All of the little children in the cartoon look happy and healthy, while a bunch of frauds in school uniforms gleefully look forward to rorting the free meals from the foolish socialist state.

    I think it’s pretty obvious that the cartoonist’s views are as I said they are.

    He is a well-fed, middle-aged white guy who either; doesn’t believe there are unfed neglected children going to school in NZ; or else doesn’t care and would actually begrudge them a few cents for breakfast because there are PRINCIPLES AT STAKE…
    ;-) He sounds a lot like you, come to think of it…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. Liberty (211 comments) says:

    The pinkos trying to make story out of nisbets cartoon. Shows about as much tolerance as the Muslins showed over the Muhammad cartoons. They should harden up and move on.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. Redbaiter (6,478 comments) says:

    “That said, the only penalty Nisbet should face is the penalty of being recognised as an unimaginative mainstream-thinking doodler stirring up complaint for its own sake.”

    No Nisbet deserves a medal for having the courage to trailblaze a path through the vicious politically correct restraints on freedom of expression imposed upon our society by mincing complaining humourless and tyrannical progressives like you.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    There’s nothing clever or thought-provoking about expressing widespread racial stereotypes.

    Who cares about a stereotype if it is in fact true…? Which it is…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    *minces away tyranically*

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. MikeG (359 comments) says:

    How many weet-bix equals one packet of ciggies?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. Tom Jackson (2,235 comments) says:

    That said, the only penalty Nisbet should face is the penalty of being recognised as an unimaginative mainstream-thinking doodler stirring up complaint for its own sake.

    It would be better if some of the targets of Nisbet’s cartoon turned up at his house and persuaded him not to do it again.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. Urban Redneck (234 comments) says:

    Maori (in particular), homosexuals and Muslims are super-citizens.

    Under no circumstances are they ever to be made to feel “offended”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. Bob R (1,250 comments) says:

    *No one’s reading that cartoon and thinking, “Wow, great point. What a rare perspective on this issue.”***

    @ Ryan Sproull,

    Cartoonists are meant to also express what is repressed. In this case he’s expressing the obvious but what is concealed by a climate of fear. In that respect he’s being subversive, as a person pointing out that Communism was flawed in the old USSR was (or to criticise religion in certain cultures or eras). Of course, it wasn’t a rare perspective but it took bravery to express what people were thinking.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    …doesn’t believe there are unfed neglected children going to school in NZ;..

    RRM. a bleeding heart liberal makes his case. But, whose fault is it to send children to school without breakfast? Who is responsible for such abomination?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. Redbaiter (6,478 comments) says:

    “It would be better if some of the targets of Nisbet’s cartoon turned up at his house and persuaded him not to do it again.”

    Of if that failed you could call in the Bluecaps and get him sent to a Gulag for “re-education”. Odious cowardly Stalinist. Posturing here as the voice of sanity and reason but always with the inevitable threat of violence in the background. And you wonder why leftists disgust me so much.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. Bob R (1,250 comments) says:

    @ Tom Jackson,

    So much for liberal democracy huh? Say something someone doesn’t like and you advocate mob violence.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. Jack5 (4,220 comments) says:

    Susan Devoy is spot on about this. It’s not racist, but I don’t particularly like the cartoons. Good on Devoy, she’s going to make a great Race Relations Commissioner compared with the far-lefters and chip-on-shoulder people who number among her predecessors.

    Two points:

    1. Al Nisbet can draw, but IMHO his cartoons lack the sense of humour, the soft edge that make really good cartoons. I’m in the readership zone of the Christchurch Press and I can’t remember a Nisbet cartoon that made me even chortle. He can make interesting and often valid points, but his work lacks that humorous edge that makes a great cartoon, that enables a strong point to be made in a civil way.

    2. If Nisbet’s sense of humour or lack of it puts an unwelcome edge on the points he makes, his flaw is tiny compare with that of the NZ people racing in to shout “racism”, including, I think Prasad.They need a dose of reality. NZ, with Australia, North America, and Britain, are among the world’s least racist countries. Let the hypocrites and whingers shouting “racism” absorb this report:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. Viking2 (10,715 comments) says:

    I blame the internet. Once upon a time we all waited anxiously to be able to read the daily cartons from the likes of Neville Lodge et al.

    Cartoonists are their to poke the crap at goings on. They often say what others think.

    Get over yourselves all you precious little petals.

    Reinforces our suspicions that Devoy ain’t for the job and indeed the job needs sacrificing for human harmony. I.e. get used to life

    People think and say stuff you don’t like. Maybe it causes you to think.

    We have just had morning tea discussions on “gollywogs” uproarious tales. And mostly from our Maori ladies.

    So get a life you poor precious wee things and John.
    Sack the fucking lot of these useless speech controlling quangoes.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    Cartoonists are meant to also express what is repressed. In this case he’s expressing the obvious but what is concealed by a climate of fear. In that respect he’s being subversive, as a person pointing out that Communism was flawed in the old USSR was (or to criticise religion in certain cultures or eras). Of course, it wasn’t a rare perspective but it took bravery to express what people were thinking.

    Dude, if you think it takes bravery to suggest that Polynesians are fat, lazy, pokie-addicted, smoking bludgers, you’re living on a whole other damn planet.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    It would be better if some of the targets of Nisbet’s cartoon turned up at his house and persuaded him not to do it again.

    If that happened it would totally validate Nisbet’s point about the low lives…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. the deity formerly known as nigel6888 (856 comments) says:

    spare us the bleeding hearts here.

    The cartoon makes two completely valid satirical points:

    1. its a bloody scandal that some feral scum parents can’t be bothered getting off their arses and feeding their kids.
    2. most of these feral scum happen to be maori/PI beneficiaries, who do seem to manage to afford the pokies, their smokes and their booze.

    The truth is a bastard isnt it?

    Its pathetic that the state now needs to subsidise food – i mean FOOD for christs sake – for kids whose parents can’t be bothered providing the basic necessities.

    There is no, zero, nada, justification for not feeding children. There is no such thing as “poverty” that prevents parents buying and making food. Any kids who are not fed, thats simply child abuse, no question, no excuses.

    There are however bad parents, who squander their income/benefits on booze, baccy and their own pleasures at real cost to their kids. Pretending this isnt true, is not going to make them take responsibility for their actions.

    A bit of public naming and shaming is a public service, not an opportunity for hand wringing and blaming the messenger.

    So, a pretty good cartoon, and dare I say “a hit, a palpable hit.”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. Peter (1,468 comments) says:

    I can’t see how the cartoon is exaggerated.

    I’m struggling to remember the last time I saw a skinny, underfed Maori kid. Or Maori politician, for that matter.

    So reality is the problem, not the cartoon.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    Dude, if you think it takes bravery to suggest that Polynesians are fat, lazy, pokie-addicted, smoking bludgers, you’re living on a whole other damn planet.

    In this current PC climate with Leftwinger’s and brown bleating butthurts like Tau Henare calling for State repression of free speech and individual rights then it most certainly IS brave…more of it I say.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. AG (1,727 comments) says:

    I wonder how many of them complained when a cartoonist compared Paula Bennett to Josef Mengele, because she (shock horror) supported free contraception for beneficiaries?

    To the race relations commissioner? Probably none – it didn’t fall into (as it was then) his jurisdiction.

    But if you mean just had a general whinge about the suitability of that cartoon and condemned the images it used to express a point of view, I can think of one person who said:

    Cartoonists enjoy a wide latitude by their editors. This is how it should be. But there is a point at which an editor should say a cartoon is so offensive they do not wish to publish it.

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/05/not_funny.html

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    There is no, zero, nada, justification for not feeding children.

    So… you’re in favour of schools feeding children?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    But, whose fault is it to send children to school without breakfast? Who is responsible for such abomination?

    :???: Even to a bleeding heart liberal like me, it’s pretty obvious whose fault it is when a child goes to school without breakfast.

    I applaud the Key govt for deciding to do something about it, instead of having a futile moan about how it *shouldn’t happen* and the parents *should* be feeding their kids…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    Schools have no business feeding kids…..that its felt they have to is the final damming nail in the failure that is the welfare state.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. backster (2,000 comments) says:

    ‘Many a true word spoken in jest’ Someone needed to confront the truth of the situation and this cartoonist has done it, and as was to be expected been condemned……….There was after all a picture in the Herald a couple of days ago of two fat young Polynesian children enjoying weetbix at their breakfast club, probably about their third breakfast for the morning. Who will the finger be pointed at if obesity rates grow in these schools due to multiple breakfasts……….Billy Bunter was always hungry at school wasn’t he?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. Redbaiter (6,478 comments) says:

    “I applaud the Key govt for deciding to do something about it,”

    All Key has done is shown the hopeless weakness of the National Party and encouraged more parents to send their kids to school without breakfast and ensured that the destructive concept of welfarism is even more deeply embedded in our society. If you weren’t a brain fucked commie you would understand that simple truth.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. Chuck Bird (4,406 comments) says:

    @The Scorned

    Who cares about a stereotype if it is in fact true…? Which it is…
    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    You would have a different attitude about a cartoon that cast homosexuals in a bad light with true stereotypes like being overrepresented in HIV statistic and sexually abusing underage adolescents.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. the deity formerly known as nigel6888 (856 comments) says:

    Don’t be dumb Ryan. I’m in favour of parents living up to their responsibilities.

    Where there are obviously children coming to school hungry the correct (IMHO) approach is

    1. where are the parents, sort their shit out
    2. feed the poor little buggers, but dont shift the responsiblity, accountability, and yes blame from the parents.

    I also note that the studies all said that feeding these kids had next to no impact on their learning outcomes or quality of education. Mostly because its the dysfunctional family that is the problem.

    So not only is the policy a bandaid, it’s an ineffective bandaid, because it actively encourages the people who are the cause – dysfunctional parents – to avoid their responsibilities. Worse in fact, because it has no positive outcome at all, except to feed the sefl-righteous satisfaction of the wowser community. Who can now say that the state has “done something”.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. Andrei (2,430 comments) says:

    What’s the matter with you people – kids don’t choose their parents or the circumstances in which they born.

    If kids are hungry and there is something we can do about it – we should

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    What’s the matter with you people – kids don’t choose their parents or the circumstances in which they born.

    If kids are hungry and there is something we can do about it – we should

    Oh, take your common sense and decency and get the hell out of here, commie.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    If you weren’t a brain fucked commie you would understand that simple truth.

    Traffic a bit slow on truebluetumbleweedz.com this month?

    It has been so long since you’ve posted anything, and yet you seem to have all the time in the world to play in the sewer here ;-)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. Peter (1,468 comments) says:

    If kids are hungry and there is something we can do about it – we should

    Yes. Penalize and “encourage” the “parents” to make sure their kids aren’t hungry.

    I don’t have an issue with schools providing meals. They do in the US and the UK.

    Simply bill the parents for it.

    BTW: What happens in the school holidays?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    You would have a different attitude about a cartoon that cast homosexuals in a bad light with true stereotypes like being overrepresented in HIV statistic and sexually abusing underage adolescents.

    Because like your whole life Chuck its a lie…..more straights have HIV in the world than Gays…that’s obvious just on the basic math. And Pedophile doesn’t equal gay….you of all people should know the difference…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. Nukuleka (77 comments) says:

    I don’t actually like the cartoon myself. I wouldn’t publish it on Kiwiblog* if a cartoonist submitted it to me, but that is my decision to make.

    * Yes, it has of course now been published here, but that is in the context of reporting on the controversy about it.

    This smacks of the time when ‘quality papers’ like The Press rebuked the gutter tabloids (and took the high moral ground) for publishing intimate phone conversations between Charles and Camilla- and then ‘in the public interest’ promptly published the material themselves on the front page! Having your cake and eating it too, I think it is called.

    There is nothing inherently offensive about these cartoons. They tell the truth and that is why lefties dislike them.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. Redbaiter (6,478 comments) says:

    “Dude, if you think it takes bravery to suggest that Polynesians are fat, lazy, pokie-addicted, smoking bludgers, you’re living on a whole other damn planet.”

    No Ryan, you are the one living on a different planet. You and your like thinkers have built a whole state funded and backed apparatus designed to come down like a tonne of bricks on anyone who might say the wrong thing. Look at the 13 year old girl interviewed for TWO HOURS by Melbourne POLICE for uttering the word ‘ape” at a football player.

    We all have to whisper truth now due to the work of progressives like you.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. KiwiGreg (3,129 comments) says:

    @ Andrei so go and do something. This government’s “solution” is to take a few more millions of dollars out of the paypackets of parents who do get up in the morning and feed their kids before heading off to work so that other “parents” can choose not to.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    nigel6888 –

    1. where are the parents, sort their shit out

    Cool… how do you suggest we do that?

    2. feed the poor little buggers, but dont shift the responsiblity, accountability, and yes blame from the parents.

    Cool… how do you suggest we do that?

    it has no positive outcome at all, except to feed the sefl-righteous satisfaction of the wowser community.

    And feed the unfed kids…? (That seems like a pretty positive outcome to me??)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    No Ryan, you are the one living on a different planet. You and your like thinkers have built a whole state funded and backed apparatus designed to come down like a tonne of bricks on anyone who might say the wrong thing. Look at the 13 year old girl interviewed for TWO HOURS by Melbourne POLICE for uttering the word ‘ape” at a football player.

    Redbaiter! You’re here! Can you point me to where I said anything about the Virgin Mary in a condom like you accused me of? Just to get that out of the way before you point me to where I condoned or promoted the 13-year-old girl being interviewed by the police.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. Psycho Milt (1,975 comments) says:

    So… you’re in favour of schools feeding children?

    It’s always tempting to simplify the issue, but it remains unwise. Seems to me there’s a path of logical conclusions to follow here:

    1. If some parents aren’t feeding their kids, we can get the schools to do it.

    Left-wing rhetoric on the subject pretty much stops there. Which is stupid, because there are other sequiturs to work through:

    2. Schools are tasked with educating children, not feeding them. So if schools are experiencing a requirement for this kind of mission creep, we have evidence there is a problem that needs investigating here.

    3. Parents are tasked with feeding their children. If some are not doing it, there is further evidence of a problem.

    4. Getting the schools to just feed the kids and taking no further action will make it harder to determine the extent of the problem (by concealing the symptoms).

    5. It may also exacerbate the problem by encouraging additional parents to shirk their responsibility to feed their children.

    6. Therefore, getting the schools to feed the children is only useful as part of a larger exercise to identify the nature and extent of the problem and come up with some possible solutions.

    Without number 6, number 1 is like hooking up a blood transfusion to a guy with slit wrists.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    Simply bill the parents for it.

    The kind of parents who can’t be fucked feeding their own children, will bash them on receiving a bill for breakfast, and warn the children that any further breakfasts/bills will attract further beatings.

    Whose interests are we really looking out for here?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. Redbaiter (6,478 comments) says:

    “If kids are hungry and there is something we can do about it – we should”

    No one disagrees with that. Its doing the right thing that is the problem, and food in schools is not that right thing. It is a self defeating initiative that will only in time compound the problem. Its helps recalcitrant parents continue to avoid the responsibilities they should be facing up to, and how does that help?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    Psycho Milt,

    I agree.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  51. Redbaiter (6,478 comments) says:

    “Can you point me to where I said anything about the Virgin Mary in a condom like you accused me of?”

    No I can’t do that specifically but being the bleeding heart liberal you always are (as exampled right here on this thread) why would I think you weren’t all for it?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  52. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    No one disagrees with that. Its doing the right thing that is the problem, and food in schools is not that right thing. It is a self defeating initiative that will only in time compound the problem. Its helps recalcitrant parents continue to avoid the responsibilities they should be facing up to, and how does that help?

    And I agree with this too.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  53. wf (317 comments) says:

    Cartoons merely express the cartoonist’s opinions. They are an ephemeral comment on a subject which has drawn the artists attention, unlike editorials which are written opinions and require concentration in order to interpret the writer’s argument.

    A good cartoon will cause the viewer to pause for a few seconds and reflect upon its subject. Agree, or disagree.

    Why make it a big deal? Have you got nothing else to occupy your time?

    I thought the newspaper editor handled Mary (Rottie) Wilson very well last evening.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  54. TheContrarian (1,043 comments) says:

    “What’s the matter with you people – kids don’t choose their parents or the circumstances in which they born. If kids are hungry and there is something we can do about it – we should”

    Wow, first time I agree with Andrei about something

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  55. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    No I can’t do that specifially but being the bleeding heart liberal you always are why would I think you weren’t all for it?

    Redbaiter,

    Because with just the tiniest bit of effort, you can judge me by my words and actions, rather than the words and actions of people you have decided are similar to me.

    Remember how annoying it was when I called you a racist because you’re a whining old white man and “all whining old white men are racists”? It’s annoying to have to waste your time denying views you don’t hold just because someone lumps you in with a bunch of other people. So let’s not do that.

    There’s plenty enough for you and I to disagree about without inventing extra things.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  56. Redbaiter (6,478 comments) says:

    OK, that’s all very fine. Ryan. If you complained about the virgin in the condom with exactly the same degree of vigour you have exercised in your complaints about the Nisbet cartoon then I apologise.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  57. Peter (1,468 comments) says:

    The kind of parents who can’t be fucked feeding their own children, will bash them on receiving a bill for breakfast, and warn the children that any further breakfasts/bills will attract further beatings.

    I think that’s pretty unlikely. In the US, they roll it into school fees. Parents don’t bash their kids in the US because of the food component of school fees.

    School fees can be deducted directly from benefits, if need be.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  58. Fletch (5,721 comments) says:

    Interesting that Campbell Live took a poll on last night’s programme (LINK – about 21 mins in) –

    Do the Nisbet Cartoons Depict Reality

    Results

    YES 77%
    NO 23%

    Hmmmm..
    Does this mean their viewers are racist or just have more of a handle on reality?
    I don’t think all parents will abuse the food programme, and certainly, some may need it but I do wonder how parents can’t afford a loaf of bread to make some toast for their kids in the morning. I think a lot of it comes down to bad parenting and I definitely don’t think it is the role of a school to be feeding kids.

    The problem needs to be tackled from the other end. If certain kids are coming to school hungry, shouldn’t the teachers be contacting their parents to see what the problem is and if they can help? Or to get them financial help? Feeding children at school is approaching the problem from the wrong (result) end. It’s like someone has been shot, the hospital puts them in a bed, the bed sheets keep getting blood on them. They tackle the problem of the bed sheets getting bloody by changing the bed sheets all day without looking at the bullet wound.

    Oh, and the bleeding heart media don’t help. The way they’ve blown up this story about the cartoon is unnecessary, making it a huge issue. I watched the report on TVNZ about the food in schools thing the other day, and it was designed to tug at the heart strings. I am reminded of an episode of the Simpsons – “but Marge, listen to that sad music in the background”.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  59. Chuck Bird (4,406 comments) says:

    @The Scorned

    Because like your whole life Chuck its a lie…..more straights have HIV in the world than Gays…that’s obvious just on the basic math. And Pedophile doesn’t equal gay….you of all people should know the difference…

    Let us see how many people even the liberals on this blog agree with you. The cartoon was about New Zealand and I was referring about a cartoon about homosexuals in New Zealand. Male homosexuals and bisexuals make up less than 3% of the population yet account for over 50% of HIV infection in New Zealand. Do you not understand what overrepresented or disproportunate means?

    I did not use the word pedophile as that generally refers to children 12 and under. Many homosexuals target 12 to 15 years old which according to a comment of yours you see nothing wrong with. I cannot be bothered looking at your comment but it refered to an 18 year old homosexual female having sex with a 14 year old girl.

    If you ever have sex with an adult women who has children your relationship might not last long if you state your views on adults have sex with 14 year olds.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  60. rouppe (852 comments) says:

    It’s not on the dompost website yet but I wonder whether there will be such an outcry over todays Tom Scott cartoon in the Dominion Post depicting a freckle faced boy holding out a cup and saying “I’m embarrassed because this helps my parents keep a house in Noosa”.

    I doubt it, since the subject matter is Anglo Saxon, not Maori.

    Isn’t that racism in itself?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  61. Scott Chris (5,677 comments) says:

    It would be better if some of the targets of Nisbet’s cartoon turned up at his house and persuaded him not to do it again.

    I’d agree in principle if society wasn’t regulated. Fortunately it is.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  62. OTGO (457 comments) says:

    During my life I have met many people who have been offended by many different things. By far the majority of these people have been offended because what they were offended about was in fact, the truth.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  63. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    OK, that’s all very fine. Ryan. If you complained about the virgin in the condom with exactly the same degree of vigour you have exercised in your complaints about the Nisbet cartoon then I apologise.

    For both, I say there should be no censorship.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  64. dime (8,752 comments) says:

    quick question – if everyone in the cartoon was white, would it be racist?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  65. Scott Chris (5,677 comments) says:

    Schools have no business feeding kids…..that its felt they have to is the final damming nail in the failure that is the welfare state.

    Yeah, like all those kids up chimneys or weaving carpets in fire-trap factories. Shame!

    Fact is, the Welfare State is like Democracy. It’s a shit system, but all the alternatives are worse.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  66. Redbaiter (6,478 comments) says:

    “For both, I say there should be no censorship.”

    Not the point. You complain the cartoon is offensive and therefore the artist should receive public admonishment. What did you say about those who authored the virgin in the condom, and did you care that it was offensive to another sector of the community? Or is it only “special” sections of the community that receive your sympathy and protection?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  67. OlderChas (19 comments) says:

    Racist? Rubbish. I showed teh cartoons to my Maori/Pakeha daughter – her Nuiean/Pakeha husband and their Maori/Nuiean/Pakeha kids. They ALL cracked up – and the predominant comment was “Hey – we KNOW people like that!”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  68. Doc Holliday (36 comments) says:

    But it’s the Europeans’ fault. Before they arrived there were no schools, no houses and children were tasty.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  69. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    “…….No one’s reading that cartoon and thinking, “Wow, great point. What a rare perspective on this issue.”……..That said, the only penalty Nisbet should face is the penalty of being recognised as an unimaginative mainstream-thinking doodler stirring up complaint for its own sake………”

    No one’s reading that COMMENTand thinking, “Wow, great point. What a rare perspective on this issue.”

    That said, the only penalty RYAN SPROULL should face is the penalty of being recognised as an unimaginative mainstream-thinking doodler stirring up complaint for its own sake.

    There. Fixed. :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  70. KiwiGreg (3,129 comments) says:

    “In the US, they roll it into school fees. Parents don’t bash their kids in the US because of the food component of school fees. ”

    Not the school my kids went to. First there was no breakfast, there was lunch. Second it was paid for seperately, as a charge for lunch. Certain kids (not many in Fairfax County) on welfare had their lunch cards paid by the state. Third, there wasn’t any school fees as such (this might vary from county to county).

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  71. Redbaiter (6,478 comments) says:

    Good point OlderChas. How much humour should we ban from our society just because it is perceived by some as “reinforcing racial stereotypes”. Was not Billy T one of the funniest guys around and did his humour not bring something positive.
    Ethnic Groups
    Billy T James [transcript]

    Hey, thank you very much ladies and gentlemen. Good evening and welcome here to Pips [Whangarei]. Good evening! {audience: Good evening!} Hey, okay. Kia ora! {Kia ora!} Oh, we got some of those here tonight, eh? Talofa. Have we got any of those? No, they haven’t come this far north yet. You give them another 7 months, boy, and they’ll all be up here. Lookout. They’re on TV now, They’ll get in anywhere.

    Hey listen, before I go any further, and I got to tell you … and I got to say this every time because I’ve been told by the management because we’ve got so many different, like, ethnic groups in, I’m not allowed to do ethnic jokes, anything insulting or slanderous about any ethnic minority groups.

    In fact, he made me take upon myself the American Pledge of Allegiance which says and I quote; I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and the Republic for which it stands and when it is one nation under God with freedom and justice for everyone; including Horis, Coconuts, Chinks, Wogs, Niggers, Poms and [???].

    We are not allowed to do any of those ethnic jokes Okay? Because normally, eh, normally what I do, I do all the Maori gags first and then I can pick on anybody I like after that, right. But tonight, seeing we’ve got a few cuzzie bros out there, I’m going to get straight into everyone else, boy.

    Yeah, like the Poms. We’ve got any Poms here? {Yes.} Hang on, leave the Poms alone. They’re okay. I tell you what, if it wasn’t for the Poms you’d be the same colour as me, mate. So leave them alone, okay? That’s right. You won’t like that. You can’t get the bloody flat or anything, you know. I mean you’ve got to admire the Poms right? I mean they’ll fight for their country. They’ll defend their country. The trouble is that they won’t bloody live in it.

    You know what I’m saying? Yeah. Still, what about … no shut up, listen … what about Aussies. We’ve got any horse scratchers tonight? {Yeah! No! No! Yeah!} I remember this first time I flew into Sydney. Looked down, saw the opera house; looked like five nuns in a scrum sticking up there. And I’m not sure … no, no, hang on, shut up … I’m not sure if it’s the Irish in the Australians but in George St in Sydney they’ve got a building called Australia Square and it’s a round building. Yeah, eh. Kings Cross? – it’s full of bloody queens. Admittedly, most of them are New Zealand queens, but you know.

    I went into this place … Jeez, you’ll laugh … not a lot … but I went into this place right and it was one of those gay bars, not that I go into gay … I just went into there for a jack, right? … When I mean a jack, I mean a look, right. I don’t mean … no, shut up … no, behave … I mean, this place was incredible, right? They had 15 guys for every guy, right. So I walked into there I said … no shut up, listen … I said to the waiter, “Giz a double” and he brought out a fellah who looked just like me. I said, “Get out of here, eh? I’m no bloody shirt lifter, boy.” Yeah.

    Hey, listen, have you all had a feed? A kai, have you? I went downtown … we went to this, um, Chinese place, I think it was a Chinese weight watchers restaurant. It was called Wow Fat … nah, nah … Did you .. you’ve got to watch these places, eh. These Chinese guys, I mean, first of all they’re loaded, right, and they get cheap labour out from Hong Kong, on the $10 immigrant plan, right, and they give them a crash course in English and they send them out to the tables.

    Well, we struck one of these turkeys this night. We’re standing in the middle of the foyer, staring at the dragons on the roof (yawn). This guy comes up and he said, “What you want?!” I said, “What?” He said, “What you want?!” I felt like saying, “What you got?!” I thought nah, I better not. They do all that – Bom! Bom! Bom! Dit! Dit! Ohhh, there’s no need for that, man. So, so I said … be cool, race relations conciliator, you know, be cool … so I said, “I don’t know, give us, um, steak and chips.”

    He said, “Steak and shit!” “No,” I said, “Steak and chips.” “Yeah, steak and shit!” I said, “All right, I’ll have chicken and chips, then.” “Oh, you want shicken and shit now.”

    I said, “Listen,” I said, “What sort of soup … what sort of soup you got?” He said, “Soup! Wait a minute … we got, ah … bok, bok, bok, bok, bok.” I said, “What’s that, chicken?” He said, “No, mushroom.” I said, “Why did you make a noise like a chicken for?” He said, “I can’t make a noise like a mushroom.” Checky hua, eh?

    I said, “Just bring the soup, will you?” So he brings the soup out, right, and he’s got his bloody thumb stuck in the soup, see. I said, “You’ve got your thumb in my soup.” He said, “I got rheumatism and the doctor tell me I got to put it in something warm.” Ha, ha, ha … I said, “Oh yeah … ha, ha … why don’t you stick it up your arse?” Ha, ha. He said, “Yeah, I do – when I’m in the kitchen.”

    Eh, haw, haw, haw, that’s why you’ve got to watch them, boy, yeah. When was the elections, right? Did you all vote, did you all have a vote in the election and that? Do you reckon the right fellahs sort of got in office and that? Do you reckon? {Yeah. No.} I wanted to check that out because I didn’t voted. Didn’t you? No. Why not? I wasn’t even on the bloody roll, I tell you, I tell you why I didn’t go on it. It was a form of protest really, eh, because that is when a lot of you guys got a new name – CAUCASIANS. Right? Because that’s what it had on the electoral roll form. Right across the top it’s got CAUCASIANS and underneath that it’s got OTHER PEOPLE. That was us!! OTHER PEOPLE!!!

    And what we’ve got to do, we’ve got to work out what percentage of us is CAUCASIAN and what percentage of us is OTHER PEOPLE. Which is difficult for me because I’m part Scottish, part Maori. Half of me wants to get drunk. The other half doesn’t want to pay for it. I mean it’s difficult boy. It is. Right. It’s the case for a lot of us, yeah. What I like doing, eh, what I like doing is comparing the way CAUCASIANS handle things, as opposed to way OTHER PEOPLE handle things.

    I find a lot of the kids … I find the Maori kids much more enterprising. A caucasian kid will come up to me and say, “G’day Billy, can I have your autograph?” I’ll go, “Yeah, man” scribble, scribble. A Maori kid will come up and say, “G’day Billy, giz us two dollars.” And he’ll wait for it! And then he’ll go, “Oh, can you give me it in 20 cent pieces?” What a waste, right, yeah. Jeez.

    I know one kid came up to me down here and he said, “D’you wanna buy a car, Billy? Ho ho he he.” I thought he was being smart, you know. And he said, “No it’s cheap, it’s a Valliant, man.” I said, “Yeah, what’s wrong with it?” He said, “Oh, it’s got a bit of water in the carb.” I said, “Where is it?” He said, “In the harbour.” Eh? Yeah?

    Kids are a lot more mature now that what we were at say age … well, when I was at say age 10. I mean, but it was hard in those days too. I mean, I come from a big family, right. I mean, we got what 12 … um um … 17 in our family, right. I mean, we put our mother up on a pedastal, eh. We had to, to keep the old man away from her, you know. No, no, it was hard, eh. It was hard, it was hard, boy. Bloody hard.

    Our mother, our mother used to get all our clothes from a war surplus supply store. I mean it was really hard for a 10 year old kid going to school dressed as a Japanese admiral. It was.

    from Billy T Live at ‘Pips’, recording, 1985

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  72. Gerrit (105 comments) says:

    dime,

    Yes, the two elderly adults are white. As a white person I’m deeply offended that they are portrayed as old and skinny.

    /sarcasm

    Would a speech balloon in the cartoon, from the elderly white gentleman, saying “good, more pension money to spend on the pokies” have balanced the cartoon content?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  73. emmess (1,333 comments) says:

    The left are always moaning that Maori and Pacific Islanders are always OVER represented in the bad statistics and that is what this cartoon is depicting, 50% Maori and PI bludgers who together make up about 25% of the population.
    It is not saying all Maori and PI are bludgers.
    How the hell is that racist?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  74. James Stephenson (1,885 comments) says:

    If kids are hungry and there is something we can do about it – we should

    Is this the only thing we can do about it?
    Is this the best thing we can do about it?
    This is treating a symptom, can we do anything to address the cause?
    What are the possible unitended consequences of this course of action versus other possible courses?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  75. Psycho Milt (1,975 comments) says:

    Does this mean their viewers are racist or just have more of a handle on reality?

    I’m intrigued. Is it your understanding of “reality” that it features Superannuitants and beneficiaries donning school uniforms in an attempt to cadge breakfast from schools? I know that, as a religious man, you’re well capable of deciding that things that aren’t real actually are real, but this one strikes me as a step too far even for the religious. Are you serious?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  76. dime (8,752 comments) says:

    Ok, Dime did some googling. Here are the 2012 stats:

    Decile 1 schools – 92% Maori & PI
    Decile 2 schools – 70% Maori & PI
    Decile 3 schools – 56% Maori & PI
    Decile 4 schools – 43% Maori & PI

    So, if a normal person with no agenda was to draw that cartoon and they looked at those stats, which way would they go?

    Lets be honest, decile 1 & 2 are more likely to take advantage of the program.

    Doing the stats, 80% of decile 1 & 2 students are Maori or PI.

    So, ya decide to have 8 people in the cartoon.

    so you look at the stats, 80% of them need to be maori or PI to be fair.. so thats 6.4.. so one half cast? surely we cant have more than 2 white people or they will be misrepresented?

    How many white people are in that cartoon? WTF?

    ITS RACIST!!!!!!!!!!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  77. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    Not the point. You complain the cartoon is offensive and therefore the artist should receive public admonishment. What did you say about those who authored the virgin in the condom, and did you care that it was offensive to another sector of the community? Or is it only “special” sections of the community that receive your sympathy and protection?

    The two are different in some relevant ways, and my criticisms of each would be different.

    I’m not personally offended by either. I don’t really get offended by things and I don’t entirely understand why other people get offended either. I don’t see the point of it.

    I did not complain that the cartoon was offensive – it does not offend me. I noted that the cartoon was unimaginatively parroting the common racial stereotypes of a great many New Zealanders and that there is nothing clever or useful about doing so.

    I would similarly not personally complain that the Virgin Mary in a Condom is offensive – i.e., it does not offend me. It is also unimaginative and seems to me intended to provoke anger and outrage for its own sake.

    So basically, they’re both unimaginative, not clever, and intended to provoke anger for anger’s sake. The cartoon has the additional problem of being a boring expression of the racial stereotypes and attitudes of the wealthier and therefore more powerful sections of our society, which is why I say that Nisbet is not courageously speaking truth to power and is a bit of a dick.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  78. JC (838 comments) says:

    “Psycho Milt,

    I agree.”

    Same here. There’s been lots of studies about food in schools and the results aren’t clearcut at all, ie, no significant improvement in behaviour or study ability.

    So one of the reasons for little improvement might just suggest there wasn’t much of a problem in the first place.. that the kid had brekkie at home or didn’t want it, that (as I’ve seen) the kid ate his lunch walking to school and that the kids have popped into the dairy along the route (seen that plenty of times).

    Really, the only sensible thing to do is study the kids and that means tracking them walking to and from school and observing eating habits, watching what they buy at the tuckshop etc.

    JC

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  79. dime (8,752 comments) says:

    The two old people are white?

    What about the blonde and the ginga on the left? hell the kid on the right looks white too!

    IM DEEPLY OFFENDED!!

    wait, no im not. who cares. There is a lot of white trash out there! Just like there is brown trash.

    harden the fuck up you light weights

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  80. simpleton1 (127 comments) says:

    A repeat comment from an earlier post:-.
    Those who want “Food in Schools”

    You take some breakfast and lunch products to a struggling house saying you want to share.
    The school, social service, charity or church can find you a family that is not feeding its kids.
    Help the “family” to prepare and cook breakfast and prepare lunch, cleanup, and be out of the house onto school and work.

    A fortnight of this should set that family up. Then go onto the next family. Check back about once a month or so.

    That way the helped and the helpers will learn, and become motivated and more skilled. The helped family, parents and kids will then know that some one cares.
    After all it is not always what you know but who you know. AS JC says one will really then know what is happening with familyl

    This personal approach could be fine tuned to make it more adaptable and workable, for your time, energy and money, instead of demanding taxes with menaces from others.

    The principle of helping your neighbour is being hidden with entitlements taxes and demands, that divorces them from society.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  81. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    My problem with schools feeding kids is that it takes the responsibility of feeding kids off the shoulders of the parents and increases their dependency on the State, as well as perpetuating the attitude that the State’s job is to take care of everything.

    Which reinforces the State’s power in maintaining and enforcing an unjust system of capitalist economic organisation that ensures a perpetual level of poverty among the very same people who are becoming more and more dependent on the State.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  82. dime (8,752 comments) says:

    simpleton – are you saying gie a man a fish and he will eat for a day? but teach him….

    you and your common sense can bugga off!

    this is all whiteys fault! they need to pay their fair share (taken by threat of imprisonment for non-payers)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  83. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Isn’t it fun to watch the faux outrage of the hand-wringing, bleeding-heart, left-wing brigade?
    The delicate souls cannot tolerate that some poor and defenseless Maori are mauled by a ruthless cartoonist.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  84. Fletch (5,721 comments) says:

    I’m intrigued. Is it your understanding of “reality” that it features Superannuitants and beneficiaries donning school uniforms in an attempt to cadge breakfast from schools? I know that, as a religious man, you’re well capable of deciding that things that aren’t real actually are real, but this one strikes me as a step too far even for the religious. Are you serious?

    PM, that’s a stupid question, and I thought the same when the reporter on TV3 last night asked the Principal if he’d seen any fat Maori parents coming into the school wearing a uniform and bludging breakfast. Of course not. The cartoon is using humour to point to a reality that some parents are going to think, ‘why should I feed my kids breakfast in the morning when the school is doing it? I’ll let the school do it and it will save me money that I can spend on other things – cigarettes and alcohol’. DO you think it is unrealistic that some parents will think that way? I’d say it is BLOODY realistic.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  85. scrubone (2,971 comments) says:

    Anyone else hear Tom Scott comparing himself to Ghandi on Morning Report?

    That was a hoot.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  86. Bob R (1,250 comments) says:

    ***Dude, if you think it takes bravery to suggest that***

    @ Ryan Sproull,

    Are you serious? It takes incredible bravery to suggest anything that could be seen as critical of protected groups. Whether it’s imaginative or not, you can’t deny it takes bravery.

    See the NY Times article I linked with the comments by Jonathan Haidt. Once people create a certain tribal morality around a sacred object you risk being cast out as a heretic if you criticise those objects. In that respect I stand by my comment above that it’s not dissimilar to critising communism in the old Soviet regime, or the Pope in 1500.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/science/08tier.html?_r=0

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  87. Bob R (1,250 comments) says:

    ***Which reinforces the State’s power in maintaining and enforcing an unjust system of capitalist economic organisation that ensures a perpetual level of poverty among the very same people who are becoming more and more dependent on the State.***

    @ Ryan Sproull,

    So you’re advocating what instead? I agree it reduces parental responsibility. I actually don’t mind the State offering this, but it needs to be linked to contraception. Otherwise this country will continue its slow decline into third world status.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  88. simpleton1 (127 comments) says:

    It is the truth as I have seen in many places where bars with pokie machines do have dedicated customers.,
    That is why there is a problem the kids are not in bed at home.

    I also recall many years ago in provincial centres where the pub had so many cars parked outside with the kids whiling away until closing time.

    The fortunate thing is that not all families are like that, but where it happens it is a major problem taking up police social service time, and leads to inter generational problems.

    The real fault of the cartoon is I doubt that the parents of these non fed kids would bother to march for their kids breakfast hand outs.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  89. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    Are you serious? It takes incredible bravery to suggest anything that could be seen as critical of protected groups. Whether it’s imaginative or not, you can’t deny it takes bravery. See the NY Times article I linked with the comments by Jonathan Haidt. Once people create a certain tribal morality around a sacred object you risk being cast out as a heretic if you criticise those objects. In that respect I stand by my comment above that it’s not dissimilar to critising communism in the old Soviet regime, or the Pope in 1500.

    The groups are “protected” because of the prevailing sentiments of the powerful, Bob. I am not saying that I approve of the liberal methods of “protecting” those groups, but the fact remains that attitudes like the ones expressed in Nesbit’s cartoon are mainstream, common, held by the powerful, and contribute to the problem. The only sacred object here is middle-class New Zealanders’ right to look down their nose at the poor.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  90. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    Billy T James was brilliant, no argument there.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  91. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    So you’re advocating what instead? I agree it reduces parental responsibility. I actually don’t mind the State offering this, but it needs to be linked to contraception. Otherwise this country will continue its slow decline into third world status.

    I’m an anarchist, Bob. I don’t propose solutions, I just whine like a bitch about everyone else’s.

    But I am confident that if we agreed that neither welfare nor throwing the kids to the wolves are acceptable solutions, we can at least start putting our heads together in coming up with one that is.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  92. Tom Jackson (2,235 comments) says:

    So much for liberal democracy huh? Say something someone doesn’t like and you advocate mob violence.

    Who advocated that?

    When trolls have to meet the people they are denigrating, they usually cut it out. It’s all very well to make personal attacks on people from the safety of a newspaper column, but that often leads people to say and do things that they would probably not do if confronted by the targets themselves. Similarly, people here who endlessly bash beneficiaries would do well to walk a mile in their shoes.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  93. Pete George (21,806 comments) says:

    The issue gets even heavier,. A blog post by Metiria Turei…

    Does our country really hate us?

    I am compelled to consider it after this week of Air NZ and the Ta Moko debacle, and yesterday’s racist cartoons and then reading this morning of Dunne’s new program to help reduce the rate of suicide among Maori and Pacifica people’s.

    Yes they are connected.

    Our kids saw those cartoons and saw the Air NZ story on TV. Many of our kids would have seen Campbell Live’s poll last night where 70% of people agreed that the cartoons were an accurate portrayal of Polynesian people.
    How can we live safely in a country where at the slightest provocation, there is widespread agreement that Maori and Polynesian people are inherently fat, lazy bludgers: and that saying so is so obvious its all just a bit of a laugh?

    It’s not safe for our kids in their own country. And so our kids respond as anyone would who lives with daily hostility against their very existence: they rebel, they leave and they kill themselves.

    http://blog.greens.org.nz/2013/05/31/does-our-country-really-hate-us/

    A valid point – to an extent. But this is getting very heavy.

    We’ve had hating kids and killing kids by not feeding them in schools.

    And now a suggestion we have hating “Maori and Pacifica people’s” which drives them to suicide.

    Should everyone fork out and shut up?

    A few people might do well to take a big breath.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  94. Redbaiter (6,478 comments) says:

    “Who advocated that?”

    You’re just another commie who hates the freedom of political expression the net provides.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  95. Bob R (1,250 comments) says:

    ***Who advocated that? ***

    @ Tom Jackson,

    You appeared to give implicit support for that approach to deal with this dissident.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  96. Tom Jackson (2,235 comments) says:

    You’re just another commie who hates the freedom of political expression the net provides.

    Or he could just be someone objecting to a stupid, needlessly offensive cartoon.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  97. nasska (9,514 comments) says:

    The cartoon offends some because it rams the message home to where it belongs. That said, the solution to the entire problem of poorly parented ill fed kids, at least those from beneficiary households, is simple…

    Child neglect is child abuse. If a kid is sent to school repeatedly hungry let the schools advise CYF. If their investigators uphold the complaint then all benefits to the household are paid by swipe card which excludes payments to loan sharks, tobacco, alcohol & all forms of gambling.

    Then stand back & watch the problem disappear.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  98. Colville (1,773 comments) says:

    I wonder if giving poor kids a feed at brekky time will make them more inclined to turn up to school ?
    Or will they turn up for the feed and piss off again?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  99. simpleton1 (127 comments) says:

    My point Dime is for the “do gooders” to get out and find these so called disadvantaged, and my answer (a general guide) is to a so called problem is to pitch and get your own hands dirty.
    Hey, starving kids/parents they can decide for them selves if they want keep fishing for their family.

    The “do gooders” seem to think they have the answer with other people’s money.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  100. the deity formerly known as nigel6888 (856 comments) says:

    Sorry Ryan, if that was true why the long queue to pour scorn on the cartoonist, and to threaten his future employment?

    Seems to me that the “powerful” have a powerful need to ensure that the cartoonist is punished for daring to state the obvious.

    So far the spectrum of comment from the “worthy” has been all the way from declaring him racist to calling him thick and unimaginative (with a smidgeon of anti south island bigotry thrown in – after all, who could expect more from a provincial, daahling!).

    All of the commentators, from the Prime Minister down have been lined up and all have dutifully said exactly the same thing, that they believe that the cartoonist is a piece of shit for daring to cross the orthodoxy.

    Some have been more polite about, some less, but the message has been transmitted loud and clear. The role of bad parents, and in particular PI and Maori bad parenting in contributing to our social problems is off-limits, and must not be discussed. Got that.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  101. dime (8,752 comments) says:

    “Or he could just be someone objecting to a stupid, needlessly offensive cartoon.”

    do you object when some left wing asshole tells high earners they “arent paying their fair share”? cause to me that is needlessly offensive. i object. we should ban that sort of speech too.

    wont the world be a great place when no one can ever be offended?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  102. Redbaiter (6,478 comments) says:

    “A blog post by Metiria Turei…”

    Yeah with comments turned off of course. Typically arrogant.

    What Turei needs to do is take a look the crime stats Kiwiblog published a few days ago and get her own act straightened up before she starts smearing the rest of NZ with her Marxist cant.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  103. Tom Jackson (2,235 comments) says:

    ***Who advocated that? ***

    @ Tom Jackson,

    You appeared to give implicit support for that approach to deal with this dissident.

    Well, that’s your interpretation. It wasn’t mine, and I wrote it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  104. Bob R (1,250 comments) says:

    ***The groups are “protected” because of the prevailing sentiments of the powerful, Bob. I am not saying that I approve of the liberal methods of “protecting” those groups, but the fact remains that attitudes like the ones expressed in Nesbit’s cartoon are mainstream, common, held by the powerful, and contribute to the problem. The only sacred object here is middle-class New Zealanders’ right to look down their nose at the poor.***

    @ Ryan Sproull,

    That’s why I compared it to making fun of Communism in the old USSR. That was obviously a protected system by “the powerful”. It was also the reality that it was commonly understood that Communism had a number of flaws. You just couldn’t express that openly or you might end up in a labor camp.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  105. adze (1,695 comments) says:

    @Tom

    It would be better if some of the targets of Nisbet’s cartoon turned up at his house and persuaded him not to do it again.

    You just went full retard. Never go full retard.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  106. OneTrack (1,961 comments) says:

    “Fletch (4,332) Says:
    May 31st, 2013 at 11:10 am
    Interesting that Campbell Live took a poll on last night’s programme (LINK – about 21 mins in) –

    Do the Nisbet Cartoons Depict Reality

    Results

    YES 77%
    NO 23%

    Hmmmm..
    Does this mean their viewers are racist or just have more of a handle on reality?”

    It means the Greens might need to plan on bigger re-education camps and that John Campbell needs to work harder.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  107. Tom Jackson (2,235 comments) says:

    do you object when some left wing asshole tells high earners they “arent paying their fair share”? cause to me that is needlessly offensive. i object. we should ban that sort of speech too.

    Except you’re just pretending that you’re offended by this for the sake of argument.

    If you want to claim that something is offensive and get other people to agree, you have to do more than say “I don’t like it” if you want people to believe you. In the case of this cartoon, there is exploitation of racist stereotypes.

    There’s also a difference between saying that someone should not have published something, and saying that they should be subject to legal sanction for doing so. After all, people shouldn’t cheat on their spouses, but it’s not illegal.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  108. Tom Jackson (2,235 comments) says:

    I stand by my comment.

    If a bunch of Polynesian beneficiaries turned up at his house and told him what they thought of his cartoon, that would be a good thing. Let’s see if he wants to mouth off right in front of them.

    Cf. the EDL protesters at the York mosque the other day.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  109. dime (8,752 comments) says:

    “Except you’re just pretending that you’re offended by this for the sake of argument.”

    like fuck i am!

    when i hear some failure of a human being tell me im not paying my fair share of tax i want to put my fist through a wall. Dimes not a violent guy but i actually HATE people that roll like that.

    ime paid well over 50k in income tax last year, plus GST, plus rates, plus fuel tax, plus liquor tax, plus ets bullshit tax.. not even including company tax and all the bullshit involved there.

    im one guy. i hardly ever go to the doctor. i contribute far more than i take.

    so when some cocksucker tells me i dont pay my fair share, i get fucking angry.

    but make it stop? take away people freedom of speech? thats not how i roll. its how the WEAK left roll.

    the left – the real racists!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  110. dime (8,752 comments) says:

    “If a bunch of Polynesian beneficiaries turned up at his house and told him what they thought of his cartoon, that would be a good thing. Let’s see if he wants to mouth off right in front of them.”

    are you saying Polynesians are violent thugs?

    the left – the real racists

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  111. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    Sorry Ryan, if that was true why the long queue to pour scorn on the cartoonist, and to threaten his future employment?

    It’s a loud queue, but not necessarily long. And attitudes are changing, it’s true. The perspectives expressed by Nesbit were more common in the past than they are now, but they’re still prevalent where it counts. But even when they’re as uncommon as, say, advocating slavery or opposing women’s suffrage is today, they’ll still be just as unhelpful.

    Seems to me that the “powerful” have a powerful need to ensure that the cartoonist is punished for daring to state the obvious.

    So far the spectrum of comment from the “worthy” has been all the way from declaring him racist to calling him thick and unimaginative (with a smidgeon of anti south island bigotry thrown in – after all, who could expect more from a provincial, daahling!).

    All of the commentators, from the Prime Minister down have been lined up and all have dutifully said exactly the same thing, that they believe that the cartoonist is a piece of shit for daring to cross the orthodoxy.

    Some have been more polite about, some less, but the message has been transmitted loud and clear. The role of bad parents, and in particular PI and Maori bad parenting in contributing to our social problems is off-limits, and must not be discussed. Got that.

    I think in the same way that proponents of breakfasts in schools unfairly paint their opponents as not caring about children, opponents of breakfasts in schools unfairly paint the proponents as denying that bad parenting is a problem.

    As Redbaiter pointed out, no one is denying that children need help – some are just questioning the helpfulness of school breakfasts as a solution. I would similarly say that no one is denying that there are parents out there spending money on booze, smokes and gambling that should be spent on food for their kids, etc. But I question the helpfulness of Nesbit’s cartoon and the attitudes it expresses.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  112. mikenmild (8,794 comments) says:

    Too balanced Ryan; much too balanced.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  113. Tom Jackson (2,235 comments) says:

    like fuck i am!

    when i hear some failure of a human being tell me im not paying my fair share of tax i want to put my fist through a wall. Dimes not a violent guy but i actually HATE people that roll like that.

    I think you have an anger problem. Your inability to be good tempered makes you the failure at life.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  114. OneTrack (1,961 comments) says:

    Tom Jackson – why is the left always quick to suppress freedom of speech – especially inconvenient truths that they dont want to hear because it upsets their ideology? And your encouragement of physical retribution against the cartoonist is just beyond the pale. But not unexpected from the left as they have a lot of form. Actually very scary when you think about it too long. You fool yourself into thinking no New Zealander would think like that, then, next minute…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  115. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    “…….Child neglect is child abuse. If a kid is sent to school repeatedly hungry let the schools advise CYF….”

    Spot on Nasska!

    Weak fools like PG can’t see what the likes of Metiria Tureia are doing to Maori – they are doing exactly what Roger Douglas said in his alternative budget “…setting the poor up for further political abuse….”

    The issue is not what we think Maori are or arn’t, but rather, how come SOME kids, MOSTLY being BROWN kids arn’t getting feed 50c worth of porridge before school?

    The parents are fucken already being PAID by the government to FEED their kids. The dole ain’t for piss!

    As I’ve said before: It’s a human right as a child to be feed by your parents!

    Yet the fucken left in this country refuses to put these piss poor parents before government departments whose job it is to protect children from this sort of crap.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  116. simpleton1 (127 comments) says:

    Again from an earlier post

    Part of the idea of sharing breakfasts/lunch is from having a “pot luck dinners” initially, for the street where there is an invitation to all with consideration to numbers. That is where every one works things out where their strengths lie with their contributions of different dishes.

    Of course conversation, learning with respect goes on, with out being overwhelming or judgmental. That is so that it will be happy to be repeated.
    At the end a conclusion of strengths and weaknesses is drawn and then to when and where the next pot luck will be.

    If sharing breakfasts can be made a success others will be drawn to it and so others may freely contribute and voluntarily help also if they wish.

    Sure this seems to be too simple and will need a lot more thought to make it more workable.

    Many others have breakfast meetings, just look at “after-budget breakfasts” and other business meetings and they freely pay to be there. A bit expensive for my tastes though. More satisfying to share what we have and when we can.

    I think it is a part of mixing with people, understanding, motivating, learning, prioritizing things in life and families. Can Government agencies really do this when they just treat you as a so called “client/customer” or really just a resource and a number for their empire.

    Start small. live and learn and build toward success even if small. May be some more challenging invites, just do not invite more than your system can cope with. There will be mistakes, errors, mis-communications. mis-understandings, and so always learning.

    I am sure others can easily find pitfalls in these ideas, which is ok if you can also sincerely seek answers to those problems. The answers are with us. Not in a wish list put upon a government

    Better to be a stepping stone than a stumbling block.
    ————–
    Hey Dime, in this answer I am not asking you for a dime or your time, as I also am personally aware of negative and positive tax contributors, +rates + + + + + etc.
    I am really just trying for a solution to a problem that may not even be there, and it will keep the individual”Do gooders” so busy doing somethlng, that they will not be demanding more aid from the govt, and maybe they may learn a lot more themselves.
    I simply couched it in their words and terms :-)

    Going by the responses to my comments they are totally with holding them selves from even considering a non government practical aid and getting off their butts do something about this so called problem.

    After all one Otara principal said her school had no problem with no school lunches and lunch was provided by a donation by that kid

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  117. Tom Jackson (2,235 comments) says:

    And your encouragement of physical retribution against the cartoonist is just beyond the pale.

    Said encouragement is your interpretation, not mine.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  118. dime (8,752 comments) says:

    tom – lmao ohh one can never get angry in your sanitised little world.

    so any one who gets angry over an issue is a failure at life? are you calling all these brown people who are angry at the cartoon failures?

    youre wacist!

    just like a true lefty.

    no real emotion allowed. just faux outrage. everyone must be girly. fuck that

    to steal from bill burr “youre the type of guy who never gets upset, just always calm.. listens to audio books of things like Gullivers travels.. fucks your wife missionary style.. even keel.. never knowing that sometimes she just wants to be flipped over and have her face mushed into the pillow”

    in other words, you are fucking boring and weak

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  119. the deity formerly known as nigel6888 (856 comments) says:

    So Ryan, satirical cartoonists have to pass a “helpfulness” test now do they?

    This isn’t a debate about opponents or proponents of school breakfasts. Its about whether there is a significant cohort of deadbeat parents out there, and what to do about it.

    As you, and many others have acknowledged, hungry kids is a symptom, not the problem. But you and many, many others are unwilling to confront the problem at source. Instead its very much safer to be all holier than thou about the breakfast issue, after all, what kind of animal would be indifferent to children suffering hunger?

    Absolving deadbeat parents of responsibility for their core and major functional role in society does not make things better for anybody, least of all the poor kids. Lets be a bit clear eyed and hard headed about this for a moment.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  120. adze (1,695 comments) says:

    Tom, I think it’s pretty clear that you implied physical intimidation would have a chilling effect on the cartoonist’s opinions. You’re dancing on the head of a pin.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  121. Bob R (1,250 comments) says:

    *** stand by my comment.

    If a bunch of Polynesian beneficiaries turned up at his house and told him what they thought of his cartoon, that would be a good thing. Let’s see if he wants to mouth off right in front of them.***

    @ Tom Jackson,

    See, while you claim you’re not expressly supporting mob violence I would say it is implied by your description above.

    Also, I suppose you thought the attempts on the life of the Danish cartoonist who insulted the prophet a few years ago, was “a good thing”?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  122. Dirty Rat (377 comments) says:

    as usual, The Civilian nails it

    http://www.thecivilian.co.nz/vulgar-cartoon-offends-everyone-equally/

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  123. Tom Jackson (2,235 comments) says:

    tom – lmao ohh one can never get angry in your sanitised little world.

    so any one who gets angry over an issue is a failure at life? are you calling all these brown people who are angry at the cartoon failures?

    Not really. As Aristotle said, we should be angry at the right things at the right time and in the right measure. Getting too angry over small things is bad, not getting angry over big things is also bad. Hitting walls because someone suggested (suggested… not actually did.. but suggested) the tax rate should rise is plainly demented.

    I’m not particularly angry at the cartoon. Then again, I’m not its target. Disappointed would be more accurate.

    in other words, you are fucking boring and weak

    You’re the one who can’t control his anger properly. Who’s weak now?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  124. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    “…..But I question the helpfulness of Nesbit’s cartoon and the attitudes it expresses….”

    So too does Slatter, Watkins, et al. :cool:

    ………..Roger Douglas’s point Ryan: “…politics, government depts, continuously setting the poor up for further political abuse….”

    That’s not helpful either, and the government and media does it a fucken lot more than Nesbit does. :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  125. simpleton1 (127 comments) says:

    missed edit for above post
    —-After all one Otara principal said her school had no problem with no school lunches and lunch was provided by a donation by that kid—

    Should be —After all one Otara principal said her school had no problem with no school lunches and if there was no lunch the school “cook up” was available for the donation of a gold coin made by volunteers.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  126. Tom Jackson (2,235 comments) says:

    See, while you claim you’re not expressly supporting mob violence I would say it is implied by your description above.

    If you read my other comments, that is not what I was advocating. I apologise if I misled you.

    cf. the EDL at the York mosque the other day.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  127. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    So Ryan, satirical cartoonists have to pass a “helpfulness” test now do they?

    That was barely satire.

    But no, cartoonists don’t have to pass a helpfulness test. Good cartoonists would pass it if they did, though.

    This isn’t a debate about opponents or proponents of school breakfasts. Its about whether there is a significant cohort of deadbeat parents out there, and what to do about it.

    As you, and many others have acknowledged, hungry kids is a symptom, not the problem. But you and many, many others are unwilling to confront the problem at source. Instead its very much safer to be all holier than thou about the breakfast issue, after all, what kind of animal would be indifferent to children suffering hunger?

    Absolving deadbeat parents of responsibility for their core and major functional role in society does not make things better for anybody, least of all the poor kids. Lets be a bit clear eyed and hard headed about this for a moment.

    I’d argue that both you and the pro-breakfast-in-schools crowd are unwilling to confront the problem at source.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  128. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    I think you have an anger problem. Your inability to be good tempered makes you the failure at life.

    Dime is spot on IMHO.

    The money doesn’t come from a magic tree. The rest of us have to WORK to earn it. Then we pay it in tax to the Govt, who in turn give it away to the deserving needy for free.

    Which is fine, the reason we have a welfare state is because when times are bad we don’t want to see the poor starving in some gutter somewhere.

    But then some ARSEHOLE like Minto gets up and says something like “no-one should earn over $200k. We must increase the tax on these rich pricks, so that there is more money to spend on supporting the lifestyles of people who don’t work.”

    It’s all about entitlements. People who meet the criteria are ENTITLED to this and this and this. Not a thought for the fact that someone else worked for every one of those dollars.

    Can you see, why those of us who work day in & day out to support ourselves and our families, might not appreciate it when the takers complain that we’re not giving enough and we should give more?

    Labour Party? Why Bother Labouring Party.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  129. adze (1,695 comments) says:

    If cartoonists had to fulfill the “satire” requirement, Hodgson in the Dom Post wouldn’t have a job….

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  130. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Dirty Rat (210) Says:

    May 31st, 2013 at 12:52 pm
    as usual, The Civilian nails it

    http://www.thecivilian.co.nz/vulgar-cartoon-offends-everyone-equally/

    Hilarious :)

    What a bunch of self absorbed humourless fuss pots we have become. As for the “racist” content, that is entirelly in the eye of the beholder. The cartoon features blondes, Redheads, European looking people and a couple who may be Islander, Maori, Indonesian (hard to tell).

    Talk about first world problems !

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  131. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    Labour Party? Why Bother Labouring Party.

    Nice tagline for a campaign to raise the minimum wage.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  132. Bob R (1,250 comments) says:

    ***I’d argue that both you and the pro-breakfast-in-schools crowd are unwilling to confront the problem at source.***

    @ Ryan Sproull,

    In fairness, the problem at source is probably that there are a number of people who previously would have found employment in manufacturing type roles and those have been outsourced or replaced by technology. So you’re getting these communities which are going to struggle, and a decline in the civic behaviours the middle class see as normal. There’s a similar thing in the US as Charles Murray discusses in ‘Coming Apart’. As Niall Ferguson comments:

    “No doubt the same politically correct critics will complain about this book, because it is almost entirely devoted to the problem of social polarization within “white America.” They will have to ignore one of Coming Apart’s most surprising findings: that race is not a significant determinant of social polarization in today’s America. It is class that really matters.

    Murray meticulously chronicles and measures the emergence of two wholly distinct classes: a new upper class, first identified in The Bell Curve as “the cognitive elite,” and a new “lower class,” which he is too polite to give a name. And he vividly localizes his argument by imagining two emblematic communities: Belmont, where everyone has at least one college degree, and Fishtown, where no one has any. (Read: Tonyville and Trashtown.)

    The key point is that the four great social trends of the past half-century–the decline of marriage, of the work ethic, of respect for the law and of religious observance–have affected Fishtown much more than Belmont. As a consequence, the traditional bonds of civil society have atrophied in Fishtown. And that, Murray concludes, is why people there are so very unhappy–and dysfunctional.

    What can be done to reunite these two classes? Murray is dismissive of the standard liberal prescription of higher taxes on the rich and higher spending on the poor. As he points out, there could hardly be a worse moment to try to import the European welfare state, just as that system suffers fiscal collapse in its continent of origin.”

    http://www.amazon.com/Coming-Apart-State-America-1960-2010/dp/0307453421

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  133. dime (8,752 comments) says:

    Tom – i know youre not very bright but do you think there is a difference between using an expression “makes me wanna put my fist through a wall” and actually standing up, walking to a wall and punching it?

    Moron.

    lucky i didnt say “it makes my blood boil”. youd be offering medical advice.

    Your new name is “girly man”. it has been ordained.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  134. adze (1,695 comments) says:

    Bob R, he thinks there’s a decline in work ethic? When people work longer hours and weekends since the wide adoption of the 40 hour week?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  135. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    In fairness, the problem at source is probably that there are a number of people who previously would have found employment in manufacturing type roles and those have been outsourced or replaced by technology. So you’re getting these communities which are going to struggle, and a decline in the civic behaviours the middle class see as normal. There’s a similar thing in the US as Charles Murray discusses in ‘Coming Apart’. As Niall Ferguson comments:

    “No doubt the same politically correct critics will complain about this book, because it is almost entirely devoted to the problem of social polarization within “white America.” They will have to ignore one of Coming Apart’s most surprising findings: that race is not a significant determinant of social polarization in today’s America. It is class that really matters.

    Murray meticulously chronicles and measures the emergence of two wholly distinct classes: a new upper class, first identified in The Bell Curve as “the cognitive elite,” and a new “lower class,” which he is too polite to give a name. And he vividly localizes his argument by imagining two emblematic communities: Belmont, where everyone has at least one college degree, and Fishtown, where no one has any. (Read: Tonyville and Trashtown.)

    The key point is that the four great social trends of the past half-century–the decline of marriage, of the work ethic, of respect for the law and of religious observance–have affected Fishtown much more than Belmont. As a consequence, the traditional bonds of civil society have atrophied in Fishtown. And that, Murray concludes, is why people there are so very unhappy–and dysfunctional.

    What can be done to reunite these two classes? Murray is dismissive of the standard liberal prescription of higher taxes on the rich and higher spending on the poor. As he points out, there could hardly be a worse moment to try to import the European welfare state, just as that system suffers fiscal collapse in its continent of origin.”

    Interesting. I agree that the source of the problem is economic, Bob. Thanks for that – looks like an interesting book.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  136. dime (8,752 comments) says:

    simpleton – i was being sarcastic. what you suggested is what should be happening.

    Dimes main issue with this new policy is we dont know where it will end.

    eg DPB to help 1000 abused women escape asshole husbands (or boring weak ones like girl man). we now have 100,000 parents on it.

    the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    im sure part of the lefts mission to destroy the church is to limit the help they can offer. then its all up to the state to provide etc etc

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  137. Psycho Milt (1,975 comments) says:

    The cartoon is using humour to point to a reality that some parents are going to think, ‘why should I feed my kids breakfast in the morning when the school is doing it? I’ll let the school do it and it will save me money that I can spend on other things – cigarettes and alcohol’.

    Reality is proving difficult, I see. You might want to have a look at the cartoon at the top of the page and consider how it conveys the content you’re claiming it does. As far as I can see, it’s failing to use humour to point to an obvious unreality that offering food in schools means bludgers like Superannuitants and beneficiaries will try to trick their way into getting the food. The “satire,” such as it is, could be summed up as “These people are so awful you couldn’t rule out anything from them.” I guess someone who isn’t very bright and really hates Superannuitants and beneficiaries might find it amusing, but “reflecting reality?” Seriously?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  138. the deity formerly known as nigel6888 (856 comments) says:

    I would suggest that a cartoon that has led 2 news cycles, and generated 120 comments here (and drawn your old Deity out of retirement) passes both the helpful and the satirical test quite admirably.

    My solution: a bit more whakama and maybe even a bit of mateatea and a lot less entitlement.

    Quite simply, child neglect is child abuse. CYFS remedial action should be mandatory. Docking benefits for recidivists – we have to feed your kids, you have to pay might be one avenue. Re-education programmes and ultimately removing kids and refusing to pay benefits to ferals who continue to breed.

    It used to be called muscular christianity (back when anglicans still believed in God), it involved helping the deserving poor to stand on their own feet. The community should be there to help, but it’s not the community’s responsibility to own the need to feed children directly, if that is required on more than a temporary basis, then that represents a case of child abuse and the parent has forfeited the right to be treated with respect.

    Discuss.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  139. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    “……Can you see, why those of us who work day in & day out to support ourselves and our families, might not appreciate it when the takers complain that we’re not giving enough and we should give more?….”

    FFS RRM……….That was comment no. 7,318!

    Lying….lazy…..hypocrat…..

    Get back to work then ya fucken bludger! :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  140. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    I would suggest that a cartoon that has led 2 news cycles, and generated 120 comments here (and drawn your old Deity out of retirement) passes both the helpful and the satirical test quite admirably.

    Paul Henry’s infantile mockery of a woman’s appearance generated far more comments and column inches than this has. Perhaps his comments were excessively helpful and clever.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  141. Redbaiter (6,478 comments) says:

    “im sure part of the lefts mission to destroy the church is to limit the help they can offer. then its all up to the state to provide etc etc”

    Jesus Christ on a bike Dime, maybe there’s hope for you after all…!!!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  142. dime (8,752 comments) says:

    “Jesus Christ on a bike Dime, maybe there’s hope for you after all…!!!”

    i just teared up a little. emotional Dime

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  143. the deity formerly known as nigel6888 (856 comments) says:

    Ha ha Ryan, Nice try.

    Incidentally, why must you always try to trivialise a serious matter – don’t you care that there are children going to school hungry? Shame on you!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  144. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    My solution: a bit more whakama and maybe even a bit of mateatea and a lot less entitlement.

    Quite simply, child neglect is child abuse. CYFS remedial action should be mandatory. Docking benefits for recidivists – we have to feed your kids, you have to pay might be one avenue. Re-education programmes and ultimately removing kids and refusing to pay benefits to ferals who continue to breed.

    It used to be called muscular christianity (back when anglicans still believed in God), it involved helping the deserving poor to stand on their own feet. The community should be there to help, but it’s not the community’s responsibility to own the need to feed children directly, if that is required on more than a temporary basis, then that represents a case of child abuse and the parent has forfeited the right to be treated with respect.

    Discuss.

    Blaming and punishing the parents: a simplistic solution that treats the symptoms and not the cause, much like breakfasts in schools.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  145. simpleton1 (127 comments) says:

    The problem with Anglican and other main stream churches is that they have been infiltrated with :”Social justice gospels” and what I call starting empires that then lobby government for more funds so that they can be seen to be independent helpers, and all the flowery language that they employ.
    Such as food banks, start then need a lot more govt assistance, then lobby to need budgetary advice so now provide that, seemingly by volunteers but always a well paid bureaucracy in those diocese that even provides superannuation etc.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  146. the deity formerly known as nigel6888 (856 comments) says:

    So what is this mystical “cause” that prevents a mother from opening the cupboard, putting weetbix in a bowl and pouring milk over it? All of which is paid from from either income earned or benefits provided by taxpayers for exactly that purpose.

    Must be a pretty damn powerful “cause” mustn’t it.

    Maybe the “cause” also forces the mother to rent a sky decoder, or buy ciggies with the grocery money?

    Ooh, finally evidence of a mystical power more influential than Moi!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  147. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    So what is this mystical “cause” that prevents a mother from opening the cupboard, putting weetbix in a bowl and pouring milk over it? All of which is paid from from either income earned or benefits provided by taxpayers for exactly that purpose.

    Must be a pretty damn powerful “cause” mustn’t it.

    Maybe the “cause” also forces the mother to rent a sky decoder, or buy ciggies with the grocery money?

    Ooh, finally evidence of a mystical power more influential than Moi!

    It’s a lot less mystical than the theory that a portion of the population just randomly decides to act that way for no reason.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  148. slightlyrighty (2,448 comments) says:

    One thing I have noticed. As the issue of feeding kids in school has been at the forefront, there have been a number of television news articles about it, and in a number of these cases, they have shown children partaking in a school breakfast because they do not get it at home.

    Now I stand to be corrected, as I am going on recollection here, but in all the news stories I have seen, every one of the children eating, has had a brown face. Is this racism or reality, and if it is the latter, why is Nisbet being pilloried for it?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  149. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Offense is taken not given. It is a subjective personal thing and not a description of anything external. It is a state of mind/emotion and nothing more. You can not prove offense. I believe this mind set is a result of an increasingly feminised society.

    I do not tolerate the arrogant attitude that demands freedom of expression be limited on the basis someone claims to be offended.

    Most often this is a manipulative lie designed to shut down debate and opposing points of view. The people who claim offense are usually first class wankers with an inflated sense of their own value and importance.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  150. Longknives (4,048 comments) says:

    The Truth seemingly hurts Turei and co.

    The downside of this is that depite 70% of New Zealanders agreeing with this cartoon’s excellent sentiment the Greens and Labour will now try to rush through ‘Hate Speech’ legislation…watch this space.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  151. Tom Jackson (2,235 comments) says:

    Tom – i know youre not very bright but do you think there is a difference between using an expression “makes me wanna put my fist through a wall” and actually standing up, walking to a wall and punching it?

    Makes no difference. You are getting childishly angry over something which is really not that big a deal. This is not out of character for you, since your impact here seems to be an endless reel of spit flecked and needlessly choleric posts.

    And at least I know how to spell “you’re” and how to use the caps button.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  152. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    Eat a dick Harriet. :cool:

    You’re no-one to talk. :cool:
    You’ve been here less than five minutes, and already clocked up 1,852 posts yourself. :cool:

    “Ain’t that the fucken truth!” :cool:

    PS: you’re not :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  153. Bob R (1,250 comments) says:

    @ adze,

    Yeah, that’s questionable. I think he’s referring to those who now go on welfare rather than take on a menial job. His point is that there has been a decline in behaviour amongst ‘Fishtown’ residents. Here is an excerpt from a pretty good critical comment on the book:

    He correctly identifies the huge differences between the people from “Belmont” (a fictional place where white people have jobs, a stable home life, go to good schools, stay married, don’t watch much TV and never smoke) and “Fishtown” (another fictional place where they smoke, watch lots of TV, know who’s who in NASCAR and are likely to wear a jacket with a Budweiser logo on it when they go to a smoky bar with friends). Living, as I do, in a place where Belmont and Fishtown overlap, it was extremely revealing to me to see just how different my “Baby Belmont” lifestyle is from my Fishtown neighbors. He’s absolutely right when he suggests that the people in Belmont are capturing all of the good jobs, and maintaining a lifestyle of privilege and stability that is gone from the Fishtown world. I see it every day, like when at work we “can’t find the right people” for open jobs, while I know of plenty of underemployed people who wish they could get a job paying 1/4 of what my company pays for almost any position. We’d never be able to hire from Fishtown…

    There’s no model in the Libertarian worldview for dealing with the idea that the guy living in Fishtown in a trailer alongside the highway and making $8.25 an hour needs only to “work smarter” to enjoy the benefit of the American Dream when company he’s working for is about to hire someone who was living in a dirt floor hut near Xinghuy last year.

    In a global economy, companies have little motivation to think nationally, they just look at median wages paid by geography and move labor to where it’s cheapest and automate whatever’s left behind, resorting only to paying a living wage to human beings where there’s no other option. ..

    http://www.amazon.com/review/RQVYO2GV7LVMW/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0307453421&nodeID=283155&store=books

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  154. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    In a global economy, companies have little motivation to think nationally, they just look at median wages paid by geography and move labor to where it’s cheapest and automate whatever’s left behind, resorting only to paying a living wage to human beings where there’s no other option. ..

    In other words, developed countries have outsourced their poverty and dosed any resultant unemployment with local minimum-wage equivalent welfare.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  155. dime (8,752 comments) says:

    “And at least I know how to spell “you’re” and how to use the caps button.”

    LMAO ya know its all over when the dude reverts to spelling etc

    Some of us here are busy running companies. we comment here while doing a bunch of other tasks. little things like keeping people employed. making money like a glorious capitalist. things you would know nothing about.

    i suspect youre either a student or some sort of public servant bottom feeder. go make your boss another coffee, girly man

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  156. grumpyoldhori (2,410 comments) says:

    First off the cartoon is a joke with all races in it.

    Second, no child should go to school hungry, on a benefit why the fuck are you living in Auckland where private rents are sky high.

    Thirdly, there are some so called parents who should not have kids, going to school at five hungry, right grab them and put them in a boarding school.

    Boarding schools are expensive, time to weigh up the cost against that of Pare

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  157. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Is someone impersonating grumpy?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  158. Ed Snack (1,535 comments) says:

    Globalization of work has however lifted huge numbers of people out of dirt poor poverty into an upward path towards prosperity (even if real prosperity beckons for their children and grand children not them), and somehow that’s all wrong for some. Outsourcing poverty sounds like the sort of soundbite that those who like to keep the “other” in their place would use.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  159. nickb (3,629 comments) says:

    The fact that a senior public servant like Susan Devoy considers criminalising speech as a good idea shows her up for what she really is – a shit stain on New Zealand’s political landscape.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  160. Yvette (2,589 comments) says:

    Dime – quick question – if everyone in the cartoon was white, would it be racist?

    Two of the children have red hair, reinforcing the other stereotype of this societal group – that they indiscriminately screw around, as well as screwing up, or both :-)
    Fucking missed that so far

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  161. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    I have been unable to comment. I am traumatised. I am shaking. The sight of ugly old pensioners with their begging bowls! Ooh … the pain. Some policeman should go to his home and give this so-called cartoonist a piece. Stinking ageist. I am so angry I could throw a party.

    It is a human right to fuck. It’s not their fault that leads to children. They didn’t want children. If you don’t want something you shouldn’t have to, should you. If the government really cared it would do something. The government made us safe from nuclear, didn’t it? Pass a law. Michael Law.

    The rich, they can pay more. They don’t have a lot of children. Whose fault is that?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  162. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    RRM, I see where you are coming from and a large part of me agrees.

    However I have the benefit of dealing with the other side of society. If you give them an incentive not to feed their kids they will accept that incentive. Just as they accept the offer of payment for having kids in the first place. We pay people to have kids who really can not afford them. That is the core of this issue on a deeper level.

    Sadly this would mean the few genuine cases would not get this assistance. That is unfortunate, but it is a case of what works best in reality. Removing the option of – not giving kids breakfast- is probably the best approach in my view.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  163. Toa Greening (20 comments) says:

    All this cartoon has done is too thoroughly stigmatise those children who are receiving meals in schools. I support providing meals in schools for those children who need it as a well nourished child functions better in school than a starving child. Many European countries have recognised the link between quality food and learning so provide meals in schools. So what is the real problem with this policy?

    I cannot believe the vitriolic comments. It only shows a narrow mind and mean spirit, shame on you all!!!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  164. Toa Greening (20 comments) says:

    I have read more of the comments. There is something is seriously wrong with you if you believe that it is acceptable under any circumstance to allow starving kids in schools? I do not read any practical solutions just a lot of ridiculous scare mongering from many frightened people.

    The good news is that the world will not end by providing meals for kids in schools. In fact in all likely hood we are creating a better society.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  165. Reid (15,531 comments) says:

    All this cartoon has done is too thoroughly stigmatise those children who are receiving meals in schools.

    How?

    It’s not even about kids, dummy. It’s clearly two adults dressed up as kids hoping to sneak through. WTF does that have to do with “stigmatising kids?”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  166. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    “Toa Whining”….? Seems so….

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  167. kowtow (6,701 comments) says:

    I think the stigmatising was being done by the likes of Comrade John Campbell showing all those little brown waifs at breakfast on national TV.

    Where’s their fucken privacy?

    Little kids used as cannon fodder (yep I know) in Comrade John’s attack on National and us tax payers.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  168. Toa Greening (20 comments) says:

    The cartoon makes an absolute mockery of the food in schools policy on several fronts. It has essentially portrayed this as a something bad for the country (some think end of world). So how do you think that this would not lead to kids being embarrassed and stigmatised? All kids will see in the media is that there is a lot of adults really upset about them receiving meals in schools.

    I note a few down thumbs, how disgracefull!!!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  169. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    In reply to Chuck Bigot….

    http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state-senator-thad-altman-says-kaitlyn-hunts-situation-is-tragic-and-wants-to-change-the-law

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  170. Toa Greening (20 comments) says:

    John Campbell has been fantastic in raising the profile of providng meals in low decile schools. I take my hat off to him, to the corporates, government, volunteers and even Hone (but not the spitting) it is well overdue. It is miniscule financial capital but has the potential to generate a massive amount of social capital.

    The sooner society treasures our kids the better society will be!!!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  171. nasska (9,514 comments) says:

    Correction Toa…..the sooner parents treasure THEIR kids the better society will be!!!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  172. Viking2 (10,715 comments) says:

    Toa Greening (11) Says:
    May 31st, 2013 at 7:00 pm

    I have read more of the comments. There is something is seriously wrong with you if you believe that it is acceptable under any circumstance to allow starving kids in schools?

    ==============================
    Well we have a law that says they must be at school. Just as well or thoise same lazy parents who cannot be bothered feeding their kids would not be bothered to ensure they go to school.

    No one here belives its acceptable for kids to go to school hungry and its tells us a lot about your comprhension skills that you failed to notice that when reading the posts.
    What pisses most of us of is that their parents are funded by the govt to feed the little suckers. Instead they fritter the cash on other stuff.

    Do not pass go, go to the sin bin until you learn to make use of that highly priced education that the rest of us working, tax paying people have given you the benefit of. Or did you not take the oppourtunity to use the support we gave you (just like these parents), and remain unable to understand.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  173. Toa Greening (20 comments) says:

    @ the scorned
    “Schools have no business feeding kids…..that its felt they have to is the final damming nail in the failure that is the welfare state.”
    You need to tell that to the private school system and the many countries that provide meals in schools.

    @ nasska
    I agree but….when the parents fail it is societies role to uplift our chidren.

    As I said the world is not going end, the sun will rise tomorrow :-)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  174. Reid (15,531 comments) says:

    when the parents fail it is societies role to uplift our chidren.

    Yes it is Toa. However it’s also society’s role to go around to those parents and fucking well find out why the fuck they aren’t doing what normal loving parents do as a matter of course without even thinking about it, and not taking no for an answer when the parents, as they probably will do, most of them, tell society to fuck off out of their lives, leave them alone and just butt out and leave them alone.

    Because I’m afraid Toa, the reason why parents are doing this in their thousands is NOT because they don’t have enough fucking money, it’s because they’re lazy selfish fuckfaces who need a fucking good kicking about how to become a proper human being, just like the rest of us are.

    But society doesn’t do that, Toa. Society quite to the contrary, offers the parents a full “wrap-around” service replete with all the welfare trimmings you could possibly think of. In other words Toa, what society has done for the last several decades, is forget about encouraging, nay requiring, perfectly healthy and fit people to stand on their own two feet. Instead, it’s allowed these people to get away with fucking murder, and consequently these people have turned into lazy fat fucks with their hands out. And this is why parents have learned it’s “socially acceptable” to be lazy selfish fuckfaces, even when it comes to their own kids.

    And people like you Toa, can moan and complain and weep and wail and wring your fucking hands all you like, at the dweadful humanity and outwight wacism of the whole thing, but you know in your heart that what I just said is 1 million percent accurate and if you actually gave a shit for the poor Maori and Polynesian people who are in the position of not being able to feed their kids, you’d be going into their homes, breaking their doors down and slapping them around until they got the message that their lazy fat fuckfacery wasn’t the go, anymore. But I bet you don’t give a shit about them. Instead, I bet you join a Maori Party demo up Queen St pwotesting about how wacist the whole thing is and how nasty society is for not doing anything about it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  175. Toa Greening (20 comments) says:

    @ Viking2
    Woa…hold back on offensive Lord Ragna!!!

    Your whole unbalanced comment is just a miserable excuse to not feed the kids.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  176. Chuck Bird (4,406 comments) says:

    @The Scorned

    “In reply to Chuck Bigot”

    It sounds that you are still bitter James because you boyfriend who also believed in adult child sex got booted out NZ.

    If you think it should be legal for an 18 year old homosexual to recruit a 14 year old you are one sick puppy like your boyfriend.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  177. nasska (9,514 comments) says:

    Toa

    I reckon that many people commenting on this thread are looking at the problem, at least that caused by beneficiary parents, as taxpayers who are paying twice for the same thing. On one hand we pay for benefits which are supposed to be used to look after & feed the kids. On the other hand we are having to pay again because most of the deadbeat parents will not get their shit together.

    I outlined what I would like to see done above at 12.09pm. Do you not think it would work to realign the no hopers’ priorities?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  178. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    I’ve never seen hungry looking brown kids in Naenae whose folk were smokin, gambling, drinking up at the local! :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  179. nasska (9,514 comments) says:

    Detour through High St do you JB? :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  180. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    When you are trying to flog a house with a High St number above 1200 Nasska the agent gets you to list it as Avalon North! :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  181. nasska (9,514 comments) says:

    It’s that bad JB? I noticed last time I drove through the area that the Taita Hotel was gone…..the Islamists must have taken over. :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  182. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    Whatever Pedo Bird…..If you think 2 teens finding a love crush together is the end of the world you are sadder than you appear….

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  183. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    It will all come right when the two Mosque developments, existing at Park Ave, and the new one at Farmers Cres. meet up Nasska. All the Indian liquor stores will begone with a slash of the Prophets sword! :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  184. Northland Wahine (542 comments) says:

    I saw the cartoon mentioned on tv3 last night and uncomfortably screwed up my face…

    Believe it or not folks, there are plenty of working Maori and PIs who can relate to what the cartoonist is portraying. Yep, some of us defend our drop kick relations and brown bros and cuzs out of a false sense of loyalty. Others defend them because they have a political interest to do so. Then there are others who think… Screw it cuz, your taking food out of MY kids mouth cos I’m having to feed your lot too.

    There is no excuse for a child to go hungry in New Zealand. None. Nor any excuse for a child not to be warmly clothed. Bad parent, bad parenting, bad whatever label you wish pin it to.

    Decent food before junk food, before smokes, before cheap piss. Warm basic clothing before tattoos, before brand clothing, before ps3s and wide screen tvs.

    For all you do gooders who may want to accuse others of not wanting to feed a hungry child? When’s the last time to took an extra mouth feed into your house, that wasn’t yours. Or paid for a box of weetbix for a total stranger. Donated clothes to charity?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  185. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    Time you stood for parliament NW! :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  186. Northland Wahine (542 comments) says:

    Good grief JB, I have enough whanau as it is, the sods would double over night if that happened! ;)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  187. V (660 comments) says:

    Put the parents in prison for a while, with no breakfast see how they like it, that is the only response that these parents will recognise.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  188. Floyd60 (59 comments) says:

    The NZ media have mostly all gotten in behind Nisbett. Lots of tricks, lots of quirky poll questions. Vintage stuff. They look after their own.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  189. Toa Greening (20 comments) says:

    @ Reid
    In the real world there will always be a rotten part of society that does not properly look after their kids, just like there will be miserable people like yourself who will make up excuses to nothing about it. We can argue about the reasons why this is happening and place the blame. But if a kid is going to school hungry then something must be done about it. At no point have I accused anyone of being a racist. Miserable, mean spirited and now foul mouthed but not racist.

    @ nasska
    What you suggested does occur but the child ends up in the foster system if the neglect is severe. The best initiatives I am aware of are Police led with social services in behind fixing up all the problems in the family. It requires a lot of resources and money to solve the multitude of problems and turn them around. The major problem that we do have is truancy, putting meals into schools will go some way to solve that but it is not the silver bullet.

    @ Northland Wahine
    I have helped out the family many times, had them stay for long periods and donate my time and money to charities. I would rather just feed the kids who are hungry than get all bitter and twisted about everything else.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  190. UpandComer (496 comments) says:

    the truth hurts. My Grandad fed 11 kids as a janitor with a stay at home wife. He was brown too. SO this shit is true. If you don’t feed your kids on the welfare, it’s because you’re spending money on stuff you shouldn’t, period. My pop could do it, no one else from parnell to fucking sub saharan africa has a right to complain. Cartoon is dead on.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  191. UpandComer (496 comments) says:

    That being said, I know from experience that sometimes you need someone to give you some food to get into a position where you can get it yourself. 9 million dollars is piss, get over it kiwibloggers.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  192. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    9 million is not “piss” to the people who had to work to earn it……not when you realize they gave up never to be regained hours of their lives to do so…

    The use of the hackneyed “You want these kids to stave” BS by the lefty’s is a shameful guilt tripping altruist attack on peoples rights to their own lives and property

    Taxation is not just monetary theft…its also life theft….and no ones need….no matter how great it may be justify’s it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  193. Chuck Bird (4,406 comments) says:

    @The Scorned

    Whatever Pedo Bird…..If you think 2 teens finding a love crush together is the end of the world you are sadder than you appear…..

    James, have you ever been in a relationship with an adult woman with children and if so how long did it last sonny? .

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  194. duggledog (1,111 comments) says:

    I’m amazed this thread is still going.

    Nisbett needs to keep on keeping on, if only to enrage Rebecca Wright and the other mandies at TV3 even further.

    Poll results 77% happy with cartoon, 23% against.

    National is wide open on their right.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  195. Left Right and Centre (2,393 comments) says:

    What a great thread…. I like topics that bring out people’s A games.

    Some fantastic contributions.

    Lots of competing values and viewpoints and I’m not sure that any of them are actually ‘wrong’. I think the lines of reasoning and thinking and philosophy seen here on both sides make a lot of sense in principle and practice.

    Parents should be looking after their children, but then if they don’t for whatever reason, what’s the answer? It’s one of those issues… damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.