What Winston didn’t tell you about those sinful Chinese

May 27th, 2013 at 9:00 am by David Farrar

Winston’s recent attack on Chinese immigrants was appalling. He takes a few cherry picked examples and portrays an entire race as being bad for New Zealand. Vernon Small summarises:

Despite his disclaimers that his party was not anti-, you could not read the speech and miss the message: Chinese immigrants (or at least a demonised subset of them) drive up house prices, stretch infrastructure to breaking point, break the law, access health and superannuation they have not paid for, and import corruption and depravity.

We actually have an immigration policy that is blind to people’s race and ethnicity – which is how it should be. With the exception of a small quota for the Pacific, immigrants are not judged on their race or ethnicity. That is as it should be. It is appalling to judge someone not as an individual, but based on their race. That is why immigration decisions are based on skills, work offers, education, assets, family status etc. There will always be changes we can make to our immigration settings but I absolutely reject Winston’s approach of pilloring Chinese immigrants.

In his speech he had a few “horror” stories about some Chinese businessmen building a brothel, and Chinese tourists who like to gamble etc.

What Winston will never tell you is that overall Chinese New Zealanders commit far far fewer crimes than other New Zealanders, and contribute highly to the economy.

People may be surprised by how significant the difference is in rates, by ethnicity. These graphs are based on Stats NZ data from the Police. It is the number of apprehensions for each ethnicity, per 10,000 population.

Let’s look at the overall offending rate.

crime1

Yes the Asian crime rate is 52 apprehensions per 10,000 population. Caucasians are five times higher at 254, Pacific 10 times higher at 545 and Maori sadly at around 25 times the rate at 1,240.

Maybe Winston will just claim that the problem is the Asian criminals are much smarter than the other criminals, so don’t get caught as much!

crime2

The overall crime rate is not a very useful figure, so I also thought I’d look at four common and penacious categories. The worse tends to be violent and sexual crimes and as you can see the Asian rate for violent crimes is less than a third of caucasions and one seventh of the overall violent crime rate.

crime3

 

The sexual crime rate also relatively very low.

crime4

And when it comes to robberies, the rate is one twenty fifth of the overall NZ rate.

crime5

 

And for burglaries, the rate is one fortieth the overall NZ rate!

So the next time Winston goes on about how Chinese immigration is turning Auckland into a city of sin, remind him how crime is a sin – and that his xenophobic scaremongering is repugnant.

 

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117 Responses to “What Winston didn’t tell you about those sinful Chinese”

  1. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    We actually have an immigration policy that is blond to people’s race and ethnicity

    LOL :)

    [DPF: Heh. A subliminal mistake!]

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  2. dime (9,392 comments) says:

    the thing i like about Asian crime is its usually directed at other Asians.

    im sure plenty goes unreported but shit happens

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  3. Fletch (6,010 comments) says:

    You can quote violent crimes and burglary statistics in China but isn’t it true that a lot of the organized crime here (especially kidnappings) are by Asian triad gangs?

    I think it’s an apples and oranges thing. You’re talking about two completely different things. The stats you mention aren’t the issues Winston is talking about.

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  4. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    dime, Not like those blonde Aryan folk who report everything ;)

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  5. flipper (3,537 comments) says:

    Thanks for posting that David. Very informative.

    Can we hope the bullshit MSM will absorb this (do they have a collective brain?) and treat Peters like the fool he is???
    Oops.. not a fool, just plainly an evil manipulator of truth.

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  6. Graeme Edgeler (3,262 comments) says:

    Your argument is invalid.

    I know this because you used 3D graphs.

    Please try again.

    [DPF: But they're pretty!]

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  7. KiwiGreg (3,170 comments) says:

    LOL Fletch. Organised crime in New Zealand is a gang issue all right, just not Asian gangs.

    And yeah Farrar and Peters are talking different things. Peters is going down his usual path of racist bullshit, Farrar is resorting to available facts.

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  8. RF (1,263 comments) says:

    Agreed and the elephant in the room is the disgusting Maori stats.

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  9. hubbers (221 comments) says:

    Would you say these chart correlate with what you perceive from the main media channels in NZ?

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  10. Fletch (6,010 comments) says:

    Crime rates also tend to be higher under a democratic government than an authoritarian government.

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  11. RJL (144 comments) says:

    DPF, love to see you report the same sorts of stats showing crime rates vs income brackets and then some reflection on the ethnic distribution of income.

    [DPF: Income has an impact but the massive difference between even Asian and Caucasian crime rates dwarfs any income differences (which are minor for those two)]

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  12. Judith (7,509 comments) says:

    Maybe Winston will just claim that the problem is the Asian criminals are much smarter than the other criminals, so don’t get caught as much!

    Actually, he may be wrong with that statement, but it does raise an interesting point. Many Asian families and communities do not report crime, and deal with episodes within their community. However, the flip side is that they are also reasonably good at disciplining their own, if necessary.

    As an aside to this, during the 90′s we had quite a few children of Pol Pot refugees breaking the law in various ways. There appeared to be conflict between the older members of the family wanting to hold on to the ‘old culture’ and the young wanting to embrace NZ culture. The usual means of controlling and disciplining family members were not working on the young, and in fact, created a nightmare for the refugee community – who went to great lengths to hide their children’s offending. I do not know if the same applies now, but the shield of silence offered by the community was difficult to break. I don’t recall the media ever reporting on it though.

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  13. In Vino Veritas (136 comments) says:

    So, the statistical likelihood that Winston Peters (a maori) is a criminal, is significantly higher than it is for any asian you may meet or pass in the street. Excellent.

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  14. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    The social stigma, of being convicted of a crime, is a much greater deterent for Chinese. It would be a major loss of face. Chinese would also be greatly concerned about how this would affect their chances of securing a good job.

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  15. david (2,535 comments) says:

    IVV 9:31 – If you want proof, just look for the $158,000 that WP stole and never repaid.

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  16. david (2,535 comments) says:

    It is rumoured that WP changed his name by deed poll to Winston First, anyone know if there is any truth to the rumour? It would be fitting. Perhaps he could change the party name to New Zealand Second. Runs together nicely.

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  17. hannity (151 comments) says:

    ‘So the next time Winston goes on about how Chinese immigration is turning Auckland into a city of sin, remind him how crime is a sin – and that his xenophobic scaremongering is repugnant.’

    And yet as Winston is Nationals’ only hope off returning to the treasury benches in 2014 ,

    John Key will bend over frontwards to accommodate him.

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  18. burt (7,797 comments) says:

    IVV

    So, the statistical likelihood that Winston Peters (a maori) is a criminal…

    No – he’s Italian ;-)

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  19. Judith (7,509 comments) says:

    In Vino Veritas (60) Says:
    May 27th, 2013 at 9:31 am
    So, the statistical likelihood that Winston Peters (a maori) is a criminal, is significantly higher than it is for any asian you may meet or pass in the street. Excellent.

    ————————————–

    Excellent? You think it is excellent that a group of New Zealanders should feature so highly in our negative socio-economical statitics? I think its appalling – and an indication that despite our finger pointing and name calling and supposed intelligence, we are not doing well at all.

    Do not forget, that since Parliament was first formed in NZ, it has been dominated primarily by pakeha males – and yet with all that time and power, they have failed to govern in a manner that produces social statistics demonstrating equality is rampant in New Zealand.

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  20. tvb (4,199 comments) says:

    Of course our Immigration policy discriminates otherwise you do not have an immigration policy you just let everyone in regardless. We have managed to avoid young Muslim men thank goodness but other countries have not. Asians have proved themselves to be very good citizens, they are law abiding, they work hard, they are polite (at least to our face), many are successful business people. They do not abuse welfare. Winston appeals to an increasingly shrinking older group who were born before WWII. They will soon be gone and I must say I will not miss them, they do not really belong in the 21st cent. They are homophobic, racist, and intolerant.

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  21. Redbaiter (7,556 comments) says:

    What these graphs show is that if the Maoris and PIs immigrated to China, crime rates in NZ would improve remarkably.

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  22. Lucia Maria (2,206 comments) says:

    Interesting how what Winston Peters said being conflated as a racial thing, because I doubt it is, I think it’s cultural rather than racial. If for instance, there was a possibility of a great number of Chinese Americans were potentially going to move in, people who had lived in America for several generations, then the only thing Peters would be talking about, I bet, would be a huge number of immigrants coming in raising house prices.

    While we have an immigration policy that is apparently, as you say, blind to a person’s race and ethnicity, it should not be blind to their culture. We should be limiting the number of people that come from Islamic countries and Communist countries, in my opinion, no matter what their race or ethnicity.

    [DPF: I don't think we should judge on their country or culture. However we can and should ask questions to assess suitability for living in NZ which could weed out extremists]

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  23. Redbaiter (7,556 comments) says:

    C’mon Lucia, one million Communist Chinese immigrants would only bring badly needed “diversity” and “vibrancy” to our culture.

    There are loads of “tolerant” and “liberal” Kiwiblog commenters who will put you right on that.

    After all, what do we have that needs preserving?

    Nothing right?

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  24. gump (1,474 comments) says:

    It is well documented that Asian communities are responsible for less crime that other ethnic groups.

    But I was under the impression their crime reporting rates were also much lower than other ethnicities (since the older generations prefer not to involve the police unless it can be avoided).

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  25. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Redbaiter, I have met a few Chinese and I have never met a communist one yet. They are the biggest capitalists you could hope to meet.

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  26. Keeping Stock (10,095 comments) says:

    We actually have an immigration policy that is blond to people’s race and ethnicity

    Peters would love an immigration policy which only allowed blondes to enter New Zealand :D

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  27. Redbaiter (7,556 comments) says:

    Kea, I don’t give a fuck who a troll like you may have met, but I do know that Chinese students objected strongly when a university magazine portrayed Mao in a way they disapproved of, and I have personally met plenty of Communist Chinese here in NZ. Just ask them how they regard Mao.

    (Fuck off. Don’t engage with me. You’re a troll.)

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  28. ChardonnayGuy (1,131 comments) says:

    Yes, but is China a ‘communist’ nation in any meaningful sense anymore? It has a thriving market economy and successive post-Mao Premiers have embraced privatisation, entrepreneurialism and consumer choice. It is also our largest trading partner now. One wishes that Winston would go away and retire once and for all. He and his carpetbagger attachments need to be permanently expelled from Parliament. We live in a multipolar world now and moronic raving right anti-multiculturalism needs to stop once and for all for the continued good of our expanding market share in Beijing, Shanghai and our other Chinese markets.

    And as for radical Islamists, Kiwi Muslims seem to be devout and peaceable souls- I’ve heard that one radical Pakistani imam in South Auckland got his marching orders from his mosque when he tried to stir things up there. You should have heard one of my co-workers, a Muslim forensic scientist, yell at the telly when she heard about the tragic incident in London…at the murderers of that poor soldier, let it be added. As for vetting immigrants, I’m all for that…but let’s include neofascists, anti-abortion terrorists and others within that ambit.

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  29. ChardonnayGuy (1,131 comments) says:

    As I’ve said before, it would probably be more accurate to describe China as neo-Confucian these days- still authoritarian, but with a more resilient traditional cultural underlay.

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  30. Redbaiter (7,556 comments) says:

    “Yes, but is China a ‘communist’ nation in any meaningful sense anymore?”

    Oh Gawd, here’s ChutneyChuteGuy megaphoning the liberal media as usual.

    Hey Chutney, we get enough of the kind of shit you write from CNN and TV One and TV 3 and the Herald and The Dominion and a million other mainstream liberal “news” and opinion outlets.

    This is a blog mate, you’re expected to be able to contribute something a bit off the mainstream here. Generally people who contribute here are able to form opinions a little different from those mandated by orthodox liberal propagandists.

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  31. Griff (6,711 comments) says:

    Fuck of and don’t engage with me you are a troll

    first time red that you have been right
    troll is the wrong word
    fuckwit fits Kea far better
    kb is lots better for ripping the wing nut

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  32. Judith (7,509 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (3,066) Says:
    May 27th, 2013 at 10:17 am

    …This is a blog mate, you’re expected to be able to contribute something a bit off the mainstream here.

    ———————————

    Yeah, but you do know about overuse of certain words/phrases and the lessening ability for them to make impact as insults, don’t you?

    When you persistently call anyone and everyone that disagrees with your point of view, a communist and socialist (usually in the wrong sense), it fails to have impact.

    Perhaps you could work on restricting certain insults to particular days of the week, to provide a bit of variety and increase efficiency? Just a suggestion ;-)

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  33. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (3,066) Says:

    May 27th, 2013 at 10:09 am
    Kea, I don’t give a fuck who a troll like you may have met, but I do know that Chinese students objected strongly when a university magazine portrayed Mao in a way they disapproved of, and I have personally met plenty of Communist Chinese here in NZ. Just ask them how they regard Mao.

    (Fuck off. Don’t engage with me. You’re a troll.)

    Maybe you can write an angry letter to David complaining that I am picking on you Red. :)

    I doubt many Chinese feel much affection for Mao, especially now some of the official records are being released. However being critical of China will not be well received by Chinese people.

    And control your language Red, children might be reading your brain farts at this time of day. You need to learn to play nicely with others.

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  34. In Vino Veritas (136 comments) says:

    Judith, you must have been desperate to make your contribution by using my comment as your opening line. How you have made your inference is quite beyond me as the bow you have drawn is long.

    Given the basic tenor of your post, I assume you meant “inequality”. I would point out to you, that New Zealand is a far more equal society than it ever has been. Check out how things were in the 1800′s and early 1900′s if you don’t believe. And on pakeha males, I would say to you that each party would believe that they have promoted the best candidates, male or female. And when one sees stunts pulled like the one Mahuta has just tried, maybe the proof is indeed in the pudding.

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  35. Redbaiter (7,556 comments) says:

    Judith, this country is soaked in communism/socialism/progressivism.

    Kea is right in one way and that is that even though the Chinese have succumbed to communist rule by force of arms, they have retained their pride in themselves and their morality and their self respect.

    In that way they bring a benefit to NZ, but its a benefit that is far outweighed by the sloth and indolence and immorality of the NZ population. Don’t you feel any shame for the condition of this country that the stats Mr. Farrar has exampled reveal?

    You and other progressives are to blame for this Judith. You have made NZ an amoral crime ridden hole where too many people have no self respect and no honour.

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  36. ChardonnayGuy (1,131 comments) says:

    Let’s have some informed factual basis for our comments, shall we? This is a highly readable book about traditional Confucianism and the neo-Confucian revival in China today, encouraged by the CPC:

    Ronnie Littlejohn: Confucianism: An Introduction: London: IB Tauris: 2011.

    And here’s some useful reading on contemporary Chinese politics and economic development:

    Jonathan Fenby: Modern China: The Fall and Rise of a Great Power: 1850-2008: London: Penguin: 2008

    I take your mindless demagoguery and respond with evidence-based rebuttal, RB.

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  37. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Red, the stats show the Chinese are law abiding. They also study hard, work hard and have no time for State charity and benefits. Their view on crime and punishment is unusually harsh. In contrast to “the sloth and indolence and immorality of the NZ population.” That is not to say I like every thing about them. I don’t. But we should give credit where credit is due. They are very right-wing and would agree with you more than many of your fellow kiwis do.

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  38. Griff (6,711 comments) says:

    Maori have no self respect
    4x the crime rate of the general population
    don’t you think there may be a problem with their culture
    instead of trying to reclaim tribalism Maori leadership should be stamping it out
    Unless Maori join the rest of us in our modern society they will continue to fail the basic test of living in a civilized way

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  39. Judith (7,509 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (3,067) Says:
    May 27th, 2013 at 10:38 am
    …communism/socialism/progressivism..

    ——————————————

    Very good, now you have added ‘progressive’ to ‘communist and socialist’. Just another four concepts and you’ll have an entire weeks worth of insults. Of course none of them make much impact as mostly your use of the concept is applied wrongly, however, its a start and a demonstration that you are willing to extend your repertoire. Well done – choccy fish for you! :-)

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  40. Redbaiter (7,556 comments) says:

    “mindless demagoguery”

    Of course your first contribution was completely devoid of mindless demagoguery. Let alone mindless authoritarianism and intolerance.

    “He and his carpetbagger attachments need to be permanently expelled from Parliament.”

    “We live in a multipolar world now and moronic raving right anti-multiculturalism needs to stop once and for all”

    “As for vetting immigrants, I’m all for that…but let’s include neofascists, anti-abortion terrorists and others within that ambit.”

    Pol Pot and his boys could learn a few tricks from you you disgusting totalitarian POS.

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  41. Redbaiter (7,556 comments) says:

    “Well done – choccy fish for you!”

    All very smart Judith but you deliberately avoid the issue of the condition of our society, and that it is people who think like you who have made it what it is. Do you have no shame? Don’t you want to fix it?

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  42. Redbaiter (7,556 comments) says:

    “Red, the stats show the Chinese are law abiding.”

    No they do not. They show that NZ society is derelict.

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  43. Akaroa (535 comments) says:

    tvb at 9.47 posted, inter alia: “……..an increasingly shrinking older group who were born before WWII. They will soon be gone and I must say I will not miss them, they do not really belong in the 21st cent. They are homophobic, racist, and intolerant.”

    Well, thanks very much for that profound and inciteful observation tvb. I was born in 1935. I am not “homophobic, racist, and intolerant”. At least I hope not.

    Like every other sensible and reasonable person in the community I, and others of the generation that you so obviously despise and condemn, try to make judgements based on reason. Noone can condemn any social group in the wholesale way you imply my generation does.

    That way lies Nazi-ism. But then, a chap of your evident young age won’t know much about the evils of Nazi-ism, eh?

    FYI I have known decent respectable homosexuals – and i have known rat-bag homosexuals. I have known people with who dislike certain traits displayed by other nationalities and i have known people who accept them willy-nilly. And i hope that I am not ‘intolerant’ – See!! I’m even responding to your rant in – I hope -a reasonable and reasoned manner.

    Finally, can i ask when your parents were born? And if it was before WW2 are they “homophobic, racist, and intolerant”.

    Hmmm! Maybe that’s where your own evident intolerance springs from, eh?

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  44. Judith (7,509 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (3,070) Says:
    May 27th, 2013 at 10:53 am
    ——————————–

    There is no fix for criminal offending, other than to get rid of the laws that make an act criminal.

    Show me a country where there is no crime, and I’ll show you a country that’s fudging its statistics.

    Crime and socio-inequality go hand in hand. Deal with inequality and the crime rates drop (although some international experts believe the world wide drop in crime rates is at least in part due to the a reduction of lead in petrol – and yes it was verifiable research)

    http://www.rethinking.org.nz/assets/Newsletter_PDF/Issue_101/Reducing_Imprisonment.pdf

    World wide crime stats have been dropping, there are many factors contributed, but as the push for equality increases, overall crime drops.

    Fix society – get rid of inequality.
    (now I have work to do – catch you later :-))

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  45. RRM (9,434 comments) says:

    LOL, dear oh dear what a disaster this thread is.

    Weddy old chap you are completely wrong about Chinese immigrants, and Kea is correct.

    They are to a man even more hard-working and more capitalist than you; that is why you are on here telling everyone how the country should be run, while they are not, because they are busy working.

    There’s a lesson in that… ;-)

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  46. ChardonnayGuy (1,131 comments) says:

    I’m criticising New Zealand First, which the current classical liberal Prime Minister John Key, and his governing party, also engage in doing. As does Libertarianz. And ACT, on occassion. Granted, I find Winston’s anti-Asian racist obsessions tiresome, but I’m hardly alone in that, centre-left or centre-right. And how is not wanting to alienate our largest global market for New Zealand products and services, which means jobs and prosperity for New Zealanders, on facile myopic nostalgic xenophobic grounds ‘communist’ or ‘socialist?’ Face facts, Reddy. There is a mainstream political consensus within New Zealand society on our need for greater Chinese cultural, economic and political knowledge in order to develop our existing and expanding market within China. It is also ridiculous to label a society communist when it has abandoned all of the statist command economy trappings that give that term economic and philosophical meaning. I do not deny that modern Chinese society and politics are authoritarian, but I would suggest that is now more attributable to neo-Confucian revivalism than any facile, conspiratorial model of “communism.”

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  47. burt (7,797 comments) says:

    Judith

    Fix society – get rid of inequality.

    Right … just make it go away. Sort of social engineer it out of human nature – yep -that will work. Lets make everyone earn the same then we will all be happy… Happy enough to be living in la la land pretending socialism works and will fix all problems. That’s easy to do if you ignore the reality it has failed every single time it has been tried.

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  48. Redbaiter (7,556 comments) says:

    “Crime and socio-inequality go hand in hand.”

    Like Singapore?

    By rote communist idiot. You know now why I have little interest in engaging with you.

    (What a cheek to accuse others of thinking/ writing in clichés.)

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  49. Bob R (1,336 comments) says:

    ***The social stigma, of being convicted of a crime, is a much greater deterent for Chinese.***

    Remember that aggression and impulsive behaviour is moderately to highly heritable. So there is also the issue of differences in gene-culture coevoution. Chinese violent crime rates are lower around the world.

    Aggressive behaviour isn’t going to have the same reproductive payoff in different cultures and environments. As anthropologist Peter Frost observes:

    “But there has been change in some regions, like the European world, East Asia, and parts of South Asia. For the historical economist Gregory Clark, the ultimate reason is the rise of the State and its monopoly on the use of violence. This monopoly created a new set of selection pressures. What had once been rewarded in the struggle for existence was now penalized. And vice versa.

    Clark points out that aggressive males are rewarded with reproductive success in simple clan-based societies. Among the Yanomamö, a horticulturalist people of Amazonia, significantly more children are fathered by men who have committed homicide than by those who have not. Among the Ache, a hunter-gatherer people of Paraguay, ‘homicidal’ men do not have more offspring but more of their offspring survive.

    In contrast, aggressive males are penalized in settled societies with central authority, either through lower reproductive success or through removal from the population, e.g., through imprisonment, execution, and banishment. Such societies have much lower rates of violent death for all causes, including war.”

    http://evoandproud.blogspot.co.nz/2009/07/genetic-pacification.html

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  50. Redbaiter (7,556 comments) says:

    Chutney, China is a country ruled by force of arms by totalitarian army generals who are slowly but surely building up its Army Navy and Airforce and seeking political alliances to advance their global power strategies.

    You and your ilk will one day be seen just as those who supported Hitler before his assault on our civilised world are seen today. Collaborators with a hate driven murderous regime.

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  51. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Red is constantly holding Singapore up as an example to us all. They are his kind of people and he has made that very clear with his misty eyed reminiscences of his time there.

    I wonder if there is a Chinese influence in Singapore ? Can someone help me out, as I have never been there myself ?

    (Though every single person I have met from Singapore was Chinese)

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  52. Redbaiter (7,556 comments) says:

    Singapore does not permit mass immigration from Communist China.

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  53. Bob R (1,336 comments) says:

    ******The social stigma, of being convicted of a crime, is a much greater deterent for Chinese.***

    Just further to my earlier post on how selection has probably played a role in reducing the prevalence of interpersonal violent behaviour ‘The 10,000 Year Explosion: How Civilization Accelerated Human Evolution’ provides an example:

    “Aggressive, combative people may also have experienced
    lowered fitness once ruling elites began to appear.With strong
    states, the personal payoff for aggression may have become
    smaller, while law and order made combativeness for self-defense
    less necessary. Sheer crowding must also have disfavored some
    personality traits that had worked in the past. Intuitively, it
    seems that a high level of aggressiveness would be less favored
    when encounters with strangers were frequent. Fight too often
    and you’re sure to lose…

    …there must have been a tendency for them to
    cull individuals who were more aggressive than average, which
    over time would have changed the frequencies of those alleles
    that induced such aggressiveness. This would have been particularly
    likely in strong, long-lived states, because situations in
    which rebels often won might well have favored aggressive personalities.
    This meant some people were taming others, but with
    reasonable amounts of gene flow between classes, populations as
    a whole should have become tamer.

    We know of a gene that may play a part in this story: the 7R
    (for 7-repeat) allele of the DRD4 (dopamine receptor D4) gene.
    It is associated with Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder
    (ADHD), a behavioral syndrome best characterized by actions
    that annoy elementary school teachers: restless-impulsive behavior,
    inattention, distractibility, and the like.

    The polymorphism is found at varying but significant levels
    in many parts of the world, but is almost totally absent from
    East Asia. Interestingly, alleles derived from the 7R allele are
    fairly common in China, even though the 7R alleles themselves
    are extremely rare there. The Japanese say that the nail that sticks out is hammered
    down, but in China it may have been pulled out and thrown away.

    Selection for submission to authority sounds unnervingly
    like domestication. In fact, there are parallels between the process
    of domestication in animals and the changes that have occurred
    in humans during the Holocene period.”

    (p 111- 112, Consequences of Agriculture, ‘The 10,000 Year Explosion: How Civilization Accelerated Human Evolution’ Cochran & Harpending, 2009)

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  54. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Remember that aggression and impulsive behaviour is moderately to highly heritable.

    Bob R, you naughty boy ! You are not allowed to say things like that, no matter how self evident it may be. ;)

    Of course we are born with certain tendancies. Just as most Chinese are born with black hair, it is reasonable to conclude they inherit other traits as well, just as we all do. However that sort of study is frowned upon as it is not PC.

    Sensible people can see certain race/culture based tendancies, but do not use it as an excuse to mistreat others. Which is the fear of the PC academics who try and suppress the sorts of studies you refer to .

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  55. Than (425 comments) says:

    Kea, the population of Singapore is ~75% Chinese (with most of the rest Indian or Malay) and Mandarin is one of the four official languages. So yes, there is a significant Chinese influence, although it’s not as strong as the British influence due to Singapore’s colonial history.

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  56. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Singapore does not permit mass immigration from Communist China.

    Did you see any Chinese while you were over there Red ?

    How many Chinese have you met who thought communism was the way to go ?

    I reckon you like Chinese and may be married to one…

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  57. Redbaiter (7,556 comments) says:

    “How many Chinese have you met who thought communism was the way to go ?”

    Most Chinese from Red China I have met in recent times are reluctant to speak against communism. Some of the temporary visitors/ workers in particular have been devoted little commies. Check out some of the Maoist university students. A work ethic and a sense of responsiblity to one’s family or a devotion to money does not preclude one from having a belief in Maoism.

    Lee Kuan Yew was Chinese, and his most powerful intellectual characteristic was his ability to understand how communists work to subvert a country’s government. Pity a few western politicians did not share this characteristic instead of their sick submission to trendy liberalism and a misplaced disregard for warning signs that are all too obvious to anyone not suffering from such mental derangement.

    Singapore is a success because every vestige of latent communism has been kept out.

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  58. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Red,
    Singapore also does not permit immigration from Africa either.
    Kea,
    How come you do not know anything about Singapore?
    Your comment re Chinese not liking state benefits was a joke right?? What do you think all the elderly Chinese in NZ are living on?
    As someone who has been married into a Chinese clan for decades and who has lived in an overseas Chinese community, the stats and many of the comments re Chinese crime are simply ridiculous. Firstly people say Chinese crime rates are low then say crime goes unreported in their communities..What part of this equation don’t people get?? The stats are completely meaningless. Chinese communities are ruled by gangs and fear…The police play a sideline role , collecting bribes and turning a blind eye. To my knowledge , Chinese gangs have been operating in NZ since the seventies..Not all these gangs actually come from China but they are just as ruthless.

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  59. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Redbaiter, it is difficult to speak openly about politics with Chinese from the PRC. They are understanably guarded and very defensive if they detect, or imagine , you are being critical of China. They may defend Mao to save face, even if they despise the evil bastard.

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  60. gump (1,474 comments) says:

    @Redbaiter

    Singapore isn’t widely regarded as a success. It fails on many key metrics.

    A good example is the fertility rate – which is far below the levels required to maintain its population. Singaporean residents don’t regard it as a good environment for raising children.

    “Singapore’s resident total fertility rate (TFR) was of 1.2 in 2011; the Chinese, Malay and Indian fertility rate was 1.08, 1.64 and 1.09 respectively.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Singapore

    I can point to other social development metrics, but I don’t suppose you’d care to listen.

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  61. Redbaiter (7,556 comments) says:

    “I can point to other social development metrics, but I don’t suppose you’d care to listen.”

    I’m sorry, your previous behaviour crossed a line and there is no coming back from that. I regard you as a contemptible cowardly cur and would rather not engage with you at all thanks.

    Of course if you’d given comparative fertility rates in other countries your comment may have had some vestige of worth but by claiming that the low birth rate was caused by a conscious decision among Singaporeans that their city was a place children should not be brought into, you just made yourself a liar and a fool once again.

    Singaporeans love Singapore and have more pride in the place than NZers have in NZ. As shown by the fact that NZ is a derelict crime ridden inwardly collapsing socialist hole with its governance suffering from too much influence from the likes of you, and Singapore is a shining city on the hill.

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  62. bringbackdemocracy (392 comments) says:

    Speaking of Crime

    Where’s the $158,000 Winston?

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  63. Bob R (1,336 comments) says:

    ***Singapore isn’t widely regarded as a success. It fails on many key metrics.

    A good example is the fertility rate – which is far below the levels required to maintain its population. Singaporean residents don’t regard it as a good environment for raising children.***

    @ Gump,

    Here’s one perspective on this from a Singaporean blogger – sounds familiar to the problems with affordable family formation in parts of NZ:

    “You can go through the paper yourself but I would think it is all common sense. If housing cost is high, couples delay marriage and having children because of the heavier financial burden of owning a home. Expensive homes mean that couples buy smaller homes to keep their finances manageable. You have small home, you tend to have fewer children because it is uncomfortable to pack too many people in a small home. Expensive homes means one has to service a larger mortgage stretched and that reduces the financial resources of married couples. In short, higher debt …smaller homes, higher financial burdens …all lead to lower fertility in a developed country.

    So what has been driving up home prices? The massive influx of people from China and India. What do some of leaders tell us is the solution for our low fertility – import more people to keep the economy growing. This will put Singapore and Singaporeans in a vicious cycle:

    Why are the same politicians who are willing to spend $10B a year on defense (and maintain this high spending) also asking us to adopt a solution that will shrink the core of our local born population? At the end of the day, what are we actually defending if we are not defending the local population? Given the environment we are in – neighboring countries highly dependent on global trade hence compelled to comply with international norms of behavior – isn’t the biggest threat to the future of Singaporeans this vicious cycle they will to put us in?”

    http://singaporemind.blogspot.co.nz/2012/08/fertility-vs-housing-prices-part-2.html

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  64. gump (1,474 comments) says:

    @Redbaiter

    I don’t need to post the international comparisons because they’re so glaringly obvious. But since you asked:

    2009 UN World Population Prospects = Singapore ranks 186 out of 195

    2012 CIA World Factbook = Singpore ranks 224 out of 224

    2011 World Bank Fertility Index = Singapore ranks 194 out of 197

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_fertility_rate

    Please tell us more about this “shining city on the hill” where almost nobody wants to have children.

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  65. Redbaiter (7,556 comments) says:

    “I don’t need to post the international comparisons because they’re so glaringly obvious.”

    They probably appear so to one of such limited intellectual resource as yourself.

    Comparing a Chinese Singaporean female bound to care for herself and for the children she produces with a NZ Maori (for example) woman who knows everyone else will care for her and whatever number of children she might produce is no real comparison.

    Replacement birth rates appear low in countries with no social welfare because they are artificially high in countries that do have it.

    Countries with no birth control produce more offspring than countries that do have it.

    Your illogical thesis is no proof of your claim that Singaporeans do not have children because it is a bad place to raise kids.

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  66. minto57 (197 comments) says:

    running dogs are in control of this siteas they shout down

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  67. wreck1080 (3,726 comments) says:

    I don’t see any brilliant chinese businesses out there. Where are the chinese exporters and manufacturers? I only see chinese importers really.

    But my personal observations are hardly representative so I wonder.

    I just don’t see any strong chinese wealth generation going on.

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  68. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    gump, the more prosperous people tend to have less kids. It is a global trend. That would explain why they have less kids in Singapore. They are prosperous.

    Or are you seriously suggesting life is better in the Sudan and Rwanda than it is in Singapore ?

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  69. ByterNZ (24 comments) says:

    The crime argument is just a proxy war (older people are more worried about crime because they’ve got more to lose and less ability to defend it). The *real* argument is that Asian people don’t suffer from “white guilt”, and they’re not going to put up with different groups (Maori activists et al) consistantly rent-seeking on the rest of the population as Asian people become a larger and larger proportion of the population. That’s what’s really driving the xenophobia, the Asian work ethic and culture is superior, and people who aren’t willing to work won’t be able to compete.

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  70. Bob R (1,336 comments) says:

    ***the more prosperous people tend to have less kids. It is a global trend. That would explain why they have less kids in Singapore. They are prosperous.***

    @ Kea,

    Affordable family formation is another factor and as the blogger above suggests, that is increasingly difficult due to Singapore’s immigration policies. Of course other major factors on falling fertility levels include contraception + feminism. Maybe more affordable egg freezing might help fertility in that respect :)

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323628004578458882165244260.html

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  71. cossackstomper (24 comments) says:

    Well I am going to add my two cents worth here. Winston isn’t always right, but some of the points he make are correct and very concerning. I have a friend who works in and travels around Retirement Villages in Auckland. In some of these retirement homes in the Hospital care section up to 70% of the people are Chinese or Asian. Most of these people aren’t paying a cent they are being funded by the Taxpayer. They have moved over under the repatriation scheme ,and got rid of all of their money before they did so. Because they now have no money live with the kids they fall under the Asset threshold ,and all of us the NZ tax payer pay for these people who have never paid a cent towards our tax system. I believe this stinks ,and is totally unfair. We are currently in a situation where my Mother in Law ,and her ex Husband who paid tax all their lives, are above the $213,000 asset thresh hold she needs full time care at $1200 per week so that is coming out of the family home when it sells. I cant see for the life of me how little old New Zealand with limited resources can be the Social Welfare ,and Health safety net for ex Chinese old people or any others where ever they come from. I full support what Winston is saying ,and believe National should tighten up on this obvious rought

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  72. hj (6,344 comments) says:

    but surely if peter’s racism is so shocking the race relations conciliator who get involved?
    Like how come it’s just Nationals immigration troughers?

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Devoy-wont-comment-on-Chinese-remarks/tabid/1607/articleID/299233/Default.aspx

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  73. hj (6,344 comments) says:

    Here’s the real speech (no need to read the balanced summary parroted by David Farrar):

    There are major issues facing our country and they affect all of us here today.

    They are not new

    The Past

    Ten years ago a speech we made in Auckland created the usual hysteria and screams of xenophobia.

    Its headline read: “New Zealand – The Last Asian Colony”

    We were responding to statistics about the Asian population exploding through immigration and how this would create social and cultural disruption in New Zealand.

    We said that apart from the strain on social services and infrastructure, there would also be a rapid increase in the number of immigrants over the age of 65.

    We warned this would bring increased pension costs and higher health costs.

    And we pointed out back then that New Zealand could not look after the health of its own people and that many elderly people were struggling to make ends meet on the pension.

    We said “No rational government would continue down a path that jeopardises the future of its own people with stupid population policies”.

    The Present

    The facts are staring us in the face.

    You heard a Budget last week that gloated over a tiny, artificial and contrived surplus next year.

    Artificial and contrived because it is not annual income that brings about the surplus but the sale of taxpayer owned assets.
    [so far so good]
    http://community.scoop.co.nz/2013/05/peters-aucklands-future-supercity-or-sin-city/

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  74. LiberalismIsASin (288 comments) says:

    Storm in a teacup. I’m more offended at been told abortion and sexual deviance are normal.

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  75. hj (6,344 comments) says:

    Crime/ no crime by people from the worlds most populous nation is not the issue. Maori were here first. The fact that Chinese “work hard” will likely not benefit Maori at all* in fact they will capture resources (put house prices up, strain infrastructure with all the downside effects on the NZ economy elucidated by the Savings Working Group).

    * “In an Australian context, the Productivity Commission – hardly a hot-bed of xenophobia or populism – concluded that any benefits from migration to Australia were captured by migrants and there were few or no discernible economic benefits to Australians. And that was in a country already rich and successful and with materially higher national saving and domestic investment rates than those in NZ.”
    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/downloads/pdfs/mi-jarrett-comm.pdf

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/4622459/Government-policies-blamed-for-house-prices

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  76. cossackstomper (24 comments) says:

    Red
    I agree with you Singapore stopped mass buying of its residential property market to . Yet we don’t a non resident Chinese or not can come and buy 200 rental properties if the price is under $100,000,000 it wont go to the OIA. It wont be recorded so we cant work out how much of our current residential stock is owned by overseas investors. If the size of a single purchase of land is under 6 hectares it doesn’t need to go to the OIA. They can then fuck off back over seas and rent all the rental properties ,and pay no tax as they are non residents is this Disneyland no its NZ Law. At least Australia had the common sense to make any non resident purchases of houses build a new property which keeps the Country going ,and pays the tradesman but we don’t how smart is that?. Try and buy a house and land in China you never will as the Government owns all the land and the property is only ever leasehold. That’s why the love us silly Kiwis selling off our land, and denying our kids a chance of owning property

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  77. Engineer (67 comments) says:

    the more prosperous people tend to have less kids. It is a global trend. That would explain why they have less kids in Singapore. They are prosperous.

    Correct –the four polities in the world today with the lowest fertility rates are the all majority Chinese – Singapore, Macau, Hong Kong, and Taiwan, 0.78, 0.92, 1.09, 1.10 respectively. Mainland China, as a still developing country is higher at 1.55 (and would be higher still if not for the one child policy). The closely related South Koreans and Japanese also have very low fertility rates – 1.29 and 1.39 respectively (compare these figures with New Zealand’s 2.07).

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  78. Engineer (67 comments) says:

    It is interesting to note that every single East Asian (or Oriental country) has become first world in a short period of time. The only ones lagging behind are Mongolia, North Korea, and of course China —all ravaged by communism. China seems to be catching up fast and is perhaps at the stage where Taiwan was a couple of decades ago.

    The first world East Asian countries lead the world in life expectancy, health care, education, and public safety, all having extremely low murder and sexual crime rates –witness the fact that Asian women can walk most streets in these places with complete safety, and one can ride public buses and trains in the middle of the night with a feeling of almost complete security.

    Thus it would appear that the low East Asian crime rate would have little to do with a lack of willingness to report crime, but is more likely actually real and related to cultural factors. In fact I believe that 2nd or 3rd generation Chinese New Zealanders, speaking English as their first language and who would be as likely to report crime as the average European New Zealand, have even lower rates of crime than recent migrants. The low East Asian crime rate noted by Mr Farrar is also consistent with data from the United States, the UK, and other Western countries.

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  79. hj (6,344 comments) says:

    Engineer (3) Says:

    he first world East Asian countries lead the world in life expectancy, health care, education, and public safety, all having extremely low murder and sexual crime rates –witness the fact that Asian women can walk most streets in these places with complete safety,
    Thus it would appear that the low East Asian crime rate would have little to do with a lack of willingness to report crime, but is more likely actually real and related to cultural factors.
    ————————
    “WITH its façade of red brick, Chiba prison, just outside Tokyo, looks like a Victorian-era British jail. That is where the similarity ends. Prisons in Britain are often loud, dirty and violent, but Chiba resembles a somewhat Spartan retirement home for former soldiers. The corridors and the tiny cells are spotless. Uniformed prisoners shuffle in lockstep behind guards and bow before entering rooms.

    The deputy warden, Hiroyuki Shinkai, who once visited British prisons as a UN researcher, was shocked by what he found. He can still recall his surprise at seeing inmates freely mingling and talking. “Japanese penal philosophy is different,” he explains. In Japan, talking is banned, except during break-times. Unpaid work is a duty, not a choice.
    http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21572257-even-japanese-criminals-are-orderly-and-well-behaved-eastern-porridge

    so you have to account for the justice system as well as culture and culture needs to take the clan system into account.

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  80. Engineer (67 comments) says:

    As for corruption, China is corrupt, but not particularly so for a developing country, not being any worse than most Eastern European countries, about as corrupt as Italy, and less corrupt than Greece and India, and a heck of a lot less corrupt than Russia. Most South American and African countries are significantly more corrupt than China.
    http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2012/results/

    Of the developed Asian countries, Singapore is considered less corrupt than Asia, Hong Kong less corrupt than the UK and France, and Japan less corrupt than the United States. Taiwan and South Korea are worse, with corruption on a par with the typical Central European country, but far better than most Southern European countries.

    So from the most objective data out there on corruption, it would appear that the level of East Asian corruption is as likely related to the level of economic development as it is to cultural factors, and if economic factors are taken into consideration it would appear that a country run by East Asians (the Confucian countries) would be no more corrupt than a country run by Europeans (but perhaps not Western Europeans).

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  81. Engineer (67 comments) says:

    so you have to account for the justice system as well as culture and culture needs to take the clan system into account.

    The clan system is basically completely broken in the developed Asian economies —it goes with the extremely low fertility rate and average family sizes in these countries. The clan system operates more in rural China, and parts of the New Territory in HK still have vestiges of it —but in the latter case is already very weak.

    As for the justice system, that could be a factor, but East Asians in Western countries, under the same justice system as whites, blacks, hisplanics polynesians, etc have well attested low crime rates (lower than everyone else) in almost every category of crime (except for gambling). And 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation Japanese and Chinese in the US (and Chinese in NZ) have even lower crime rates than the ‘general’ asian category which includes recent migrants —these Asians of several generations in their host Western countries would long ago have lost the fear of a draconian ancestral justice system.

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  82. hj (6,344 comments) says:

    “That is why immigration decisions are based on skills, work offers, education, assets, family status etc. ”
    ………………………..
    so how does that policy equate with this:

    The BNZ Chief Economist’s view on the Auckland House Prices:

    “3. The government is explicitly aiming to grow Auckland’s population as a means of achieving “agglomeration” benefits for economic growth which accrue from high interaction amongst economic players.”

    or this (relating to Labour):
    “Ireland’s economic miracle was driven by Germany. Under Labour, ours is being gifted by Communist China. The Germans sent money, the Chinese are sending people.
    / /
    “That impetus has come from getting immigration up to record levels, notwithstanding the squeals from Winston Peters’ constituency. Just as Ireland found a sugar daddy to give its economy a boost in the 1980′s, Miss Clark has discovered the dividend from unfettered people inflows.”
    http://www.gmi.co.nz/news/514/labours-third-world-solution.aspx

    So the extra million headed for Auckland is not because we need a spanner grinder in Pakarau it is as a result of policies that bring fish into the nets of property investors, developers, associated manufacturers, immigration agents and lawyers, real estate agents etc, etc and where will it get us long term?

    what will NZ’s job be?

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  83. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Cossack.
    Denis O’Rourke has a bill addressing this issue..Go to any health service , colonscopy etc and you will find elderly Chinese free loaders lining up..Meanwhile taxpaying NZers have to wait. It is ridiculous to be looking after some elses elderly..None of these people speak any English.

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  84. wat dabney (3,655 comments) says:

    So the extra million headed for Auckland is not because we need a spanner grinder in Pakarau it is as a result of policies that bring fish into the nets of property investors, developers, associated manufacturers, immigration agents and lawyers, real estate agents etc

    You really do write the most unmitigated shit don’t you hj.

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  85. hj (6,344 comments) says:

    Engineer 3 Says:

    As for corruption, China is corrupt, but not particularly so for a developing country, not being any worse than most Eastern European countries, about as corrupt as Italy, and less corrupt than Greece and India, and a heck of a lot less corrupt than Russia. Most South American and African countries are significantly more corrupt than China.
    http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2012/results/
    …..
    at # 80 they are a lot more corrupt than Korea 45, Japan 17, U.K 17, US 19 (and we are talking migrants here).

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  86. hj (6,344 comments) says:

    Watt Dabney says:

    You really do write the most unmitigated shit don’t you hj.
    ……
    that’s what Jules meekas called the DNA evidence linking him to the murder of Tereasa Cormack.

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  87. Johnboy (14,911 comments) says:

    Something he never wanted you all to know!

    “Winston’s a Chink”! :)

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/science/08obpolynesia.html?_r=0

    Always thought his eyes looked a bit slitty! :)

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  88. hj (6,344 comments) says:

    vernon Small:

    Despite his disclaimers that his party was not anti-immigration, you could not read the speech and miss the message: [Chinese immigrants (or at least a demonised subset of them)] drive up house prices, stretch infrastructure to breaking point, [break the law, access health and superannuation they have not paid for, and import corruption and depravity.]
    ………………………….
    That’s what the Savings Working Group said

    Immigration and tax breaks for investment in residential property are being cited as the underlying causes of steep increases in the cost of housing over the past decade.

    New Zealand now boasts one of the highest rates of home unaffordability in the world as a result of prices rising far faster than incomes, and the government’s Savings Working Group blames that squarely on the policies of successive governments.

    Although “the favourable tax treatment of property investment” accounted for about 50% of house price increases between 2001 and 2007, the working group said, there was also strong evidence that rapid swings in immigration brought about price-rise “shocks”.

    There was a sharp spike in immigration in 2001, 2002 and 2003 and, said working group committee member Dr Andrew Coleman, it appeared that property prices did not fall anywhere near as greatly when immigration fell again.

    The report added that there was little evidence that immigration boosted local incomes. In fact, the need to build roads and schools meant that net migration contributed to the national deficit.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/4622459/Government-policies-blamed-for-house-prices

    Shocking thing to say!

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  89. Johnboy (14,911 comments) says:

    As Martin Richards said:

    “It’s still possible there was the elite movement from Taiwan much later that transferred the language,”

    And Winnie is bloody good with the words bro’s! :)

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  90. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Johnboy, yes a interesting article and we can draw a number of conclusions from it about Maori ancestors:

    1. They were piss poor sailors.

    2. They were too lazy to paddle back to shore.

    3. No one bothered to rescue them.

    As Griff would say; The science is settled. ;)

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  91. big bruv (13,220 comments) says:

    I note that the evil Lucia Maria suggests that only Christians should be allowed to enter NZ.

    If we really want a better NZ then we should not allow anybody in who believes in the sky fairy.

    Less religion means a happier and safer community, that is a statement of fact.

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  92. Johnboy (14,911 comments) says:

    “3. No one bothered to rescue them.”

    I beg to differ Kea.

    Good old Captain Cook brought us here to pick up the tab! :)

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  93. Johnboy (14,911 comments) says:

    “the evil Lucia Maria”.

    I’m prepared to spend some time with her in an attempt to convert her to the paths of righteousness bb! :)

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  94. Judith (7,509 comments) says:

    Kea (4,658) Says:
    May 27th, 2013 at 8:11 pm

    3. No one bothered to rescue them.

    —————————–

    Why did they need rescuing? They found land that was rich in water, plant, fish, bird and shell-fish. No dangerous predators (apart from each other) and at that stage, no politicians. Why would they want to leave? Sounds like heaven to me!

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  95. Johnboy (14,911 comments) says:

    You should move to Tokoroa Judith. :)

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  96. Johnboy (14,911 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8719443/Kidnap-accused-appears-in-court

    “Sonny Te Aramoana Waiti”

    How come that article never recited his lineage like must articles about Murri do?

    You know like…… Sonny Te Aramoana Waiti of Ngati Toa and Ngati Raukawa heritage ……etc.etc. :)

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  97. Judith (7,509 comments) says:

    Johnboy (10,801) Says:
    May 27th, 2013 at 8:37 pm
    ————————–

    No shell fish in Tokoroa. :-)

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  98. Johnboy (14,911 comments) says:

    Plenty of Wheatbix though Judith. :)

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  99. Bob R (1,336 comments) says:

    @ Engineer,

    See ‘The 10,000 Year Explosion’ reference above. It’s possible it’s both cultural and genetic (eg. gene-culture coevolution where violence had a lower reproductive payoff over a period of time).

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  100. hj (6,344 comments) says:

    Winston’s recent attack on Chinese immigrants was appalling. He takes a few cherry picked examples and portrays an entire race as being bad for New Zealand.
    ………..
    Definitely an issue for Susan Devoy…. unless you are b*llsh#ting :wink:

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  101. Engineer (67 comments) says:

    Bob R: you could be onto something but I don’t entirely agree with this “The Japanese say that the nail that sticks out is hammered down, but in China it may have been pulled out and thrown away. Selection for submission to authority sounds unnervingly like domestication.” I actually find the Chinese (particularly mainland Chinese) to be far more individualistic and non-conformist than Japanese. Japan seems ordered and a tad monotonous, China is vibrant and colourful. Chinese have a cynicism about authority and disrespect for it – particularly in the mainland where their Cultural Revolution did go some way towards overthrowing thousands of years of cultural conditioning, as well as massive destruction of cultural treasures and lives. Hong Kong and Singapore Chinese are by contrast a lot more subdued.

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  102. Engineer (67 comments) says:

    Interesting webpage I found here from the Sensible Sentencing Trust:
    http://www.safe-nz.org.nz/sxdb/sxdb.htm

    Out of 2392 sex offenders and paedophiles, I spot about 3 or 4? Chinese names (there are significantly more obviously South Asian or Indian names —which probably brings up the total sex crimes in the ‘Asian’ category – which is still significantly below the rate of Caucasian offending in this category).

    Chinese are I believe 3.7% of the New Zealand population. So I should spot around 80 to 100 Chinese names in this list (not an exact calculation because one of course obviously needs to take into account the age profile of the Chinese population and also the numbers of Chinese men compared with Chinese women). Nevertheless just a glance at the list will tell you that in terms of sex offences Chinese are virtually off the radar.

    Yet Peters says that it is the Chinese who are largely responsible for turning Auckland into a ‘Sin City’?

    Peters is a shameless demagogue and racist.

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  103. hj (6,344 comments) says:

    Yet Peters says that it is the Chinese who are largely responsible for turning Auckland into a ‘Sin City’?

    Peters is a shameless demagogue and racist.
    …………………..

    And when the so-called rich tourists have finished at the blackjack tables or the pokie machines there’s another attraction nearby.
    The Hong Kong born Chow brothers are thoughtfully providing a fifteen storey brothel, in what used to be an historic building, just across the road from the casino in the heart of Auckland!
    And thanks to our generous student and worker visa schemes – the Chow brothers will be able to provide genuine home grown sex workers for the visitors if that’s what they want!
    It makes you wonder if the City of Sails is becoming the Supercity of Sin!
    One concerned citizen sent me a copy of that scurrilous magazine Truth.
    It’s chocker with page after page of sex ads – most based in this fair city.
    Is that what you voted for?
    Because many of these sex ads in reality represent people trafficking
    And where are all the so called Liberals and Women’s Liberation Movement?
    Or is liberty, freedom and human rights of no importance when the victims are Asian women?
    What is really happening to Auckland?
    The seven deadly sins are apparently alive and well here.
    Meanwhile much of Auckland is being trashed!
    Economically, socially, physically and ethically.
    Other recent events show that an Asian student cheating industry has emerged.
    As has a drugs importing industry.
    And a slave trade where immigrants are promised jobs then end up working for nothing – and their passports are taken off them to keep them silent.
    Some tradespeople have contacted us about backyard industries springing up with which they can’t compete.
    How can they?
    For these industries pay no tax, no GST, and there’s no health and safety.
    There’s nothing like making newcomers feel at home.
    Again remember, the new Premier of China is the leader who says China’s biggest challenge is corruption!
    We remember why we made that statement ten years ago.
    A group of New Zealand born Chinese came to warn me what was happening.
    These people had been in this country for years, some since the 19th Century gold rush in Otago.
    They helped build this country and they have been great citizens.
    They warned – “The guiding hand is becoming the greased palm”.
    And nowhere in this country are more palms being greased than in Auckland.
    We have said it countless times and we again repeat.
    New Zealand First is not anti-immigrant.
    New Zealand First is not against bringing in people whose skills we lack.
    We are not against genuine foreign investment – as long as it is genuine and not just buying existing assets with no new jobs and new wealth in New Zealand.
    http://community.scoop.co.nz/2013/05/peters-aucklands-future-supercity-or-sin-city/

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  104. hj (6,344 comments) says:

    “CORIN I will get to that in a minute. But I just want to be clear here. So we’re looking at potential law changes around urban planning, around urban sprawl, that will enable greater supply of houses.
    BILL Well, that is the thrust of it. The thrust of it is to make it easier, both commercially and in the planning process, to enable more houses – not just green fields, but also within the cities. Because some of the best opportunities are within the cities.
    CORIN And what’s the goal here in terms of how much cheaper you want houses to be?
    BILL Well, that’s a very good question. Up until, I think, the Productivity Commission Report, no one really believed you could change this. People just seemed to assume that no matter what happens, house prices are going to go up. That has turned out to be quite dangerous for New Zealand. So we don’t accept that house prices automatically have to rise. And we don’t accept that a lot of New Zealanders are automatically cut out of home ownership because they can’t find the half a million dollars you need for a starter home in Auckland. So we haven’t got a target in mind. I think there’s a lot more work to do now that people accept you can-

    CORIN But I’ve seen figures showing that 30% of Aucklanders, for example, simply can’t buy a $400,000 house. You know, there’s big chunks of the Auckland market that can’t even get into a $400,000 house.

    BILL That’s right, and more of those people are finding themselves in low-quality rentals, and a lot of them find themselves on government subsidies for those rentals. And those subsidies are growing quite fast, so the government has a direct interest in enabling those people into the market. So what we’ll be doing is outlining a work programme where changes in local government legislation, changes in Resource Management Act legislation and maybe some changes in the balance of government influence with councils to enable that better supply.
    http://tvnz.co.nz/q-and-a-news/transcript-bill-english-interview-5166909

    In an Australian context, the Productivity Commission – hardly a hot-bed of xenophobia or populism – concluded that any benefits from migration to Australia were captured by migrants and there were few or no discernible economic benefits to Australians. And that was in a country already rich and successful and with materially higher national saving and domestic investment rates than those in NZ.”
    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/downloads/pdfs/mi-jarrett-comm.pdf

    Productivity Commision:
    We recommend that you:

    b agree that Commission’s second tranche of inquiries be selected on the degree that
    they:
    • are relatively uncontroversial given the desire to establish broad political support for the Commission – (nothing that supports NZr’s First)

    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/informationreleases/productivitycommission/pdfs/t2011-2000.pdf

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  105. hj (6,344 comments) says:

    A Chinese friend had a friend who was a brilliant student. He got a good job. His wife had a business sorting out student visas. He said she would charge them (I forget but it was an order of magnitude that made it eye popping ) even though the actual cost was a few hundred. “Those businessmen are so busy and making so much money they don’t check”. Meanwhile they had bought 6 houses in one or two years.
    This is anecdotal but these would be seen outwardly as the typical stereo type of hard working and successful. It would be argued that they are just the sort of people this country needs… and there would be some truth there. Anyone who argued otherwise would be a racist.

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  106. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    The clan system is alive and well where my husband comes from. Maybe they are old fashioned but I don’t think the clan system is as broken down as one commenter suggests.
    On another issue, there is a lot of domestic violence and child abuse in Chinese families..None of this crime ever hits the books. As I said , the figures are meaningless. The worst child abuse I have seen or heard was in an overseas Chinese community..I couldn’t do anything about it because of the threat of violence towards my own family..
    I am not sure who spins the biggest myths about Chinese people , the Chinese themselves or all these so easily fooled whiteys.

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  107. ByterNZ (24 comments) says:

    DFF, pay attention. HJ just let the mask slip for the rest of the left:

    hj (3,914) Says:
    May 27th, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    Crime/ no crime by people from the worlds most populous nation is not the issue. Maori were here first. The fact that Chinese “work hard” will likely not benefit Maori at all* in fact they will capture resources (put house prices up, strain infrastructure with all the downside effects on the NZ economy elucidated by the Savings Working Group).

    ^^^^^
    *THIS* is the true agenda laid bare, and the true source of objection.

    Now anyone rational looking at the situation *173 YEARS* after the Treaty of Waitangi was signed would think that anyone and everybody who was “here first” has died off by now (unless you know of a Maori who is 173 years old). Everyone born after that is a New Zealander. It’s time for the endless rent seeking to end. After all, if we get weakened by this as a nation, and get conquered by someone else, they’re not going to give a stuff about who was “here first”. It’s who is here NOW that really matters.

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  108. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    It’s who is here NOW that really matters.

    Absolutely right. Funny how someone with 1/16th Maori blood can claim special rights against the other 15 parts of their blood line. On that basis the claim should be against them, not in their favour.

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  109. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    Singapore does not permit mass immigration from Communist China.

    Singapore accepts around 100,000 mainland Chinese immigrants every year.

    http://bbs.chinadaily.com.cn/thread-826964-1-1.html

    http://www.npr.org/2012/07/26/157444012/millions-of-immigrants-cause-tension-in-singapore

    http://www.asiancenturyinstitute.com/migration/200-singapore-s-migration-dilemmas

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  110. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    http://migrationsmap.net/#/SGP/arrivals

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  111. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    The fertility rate is a bit shit too.

    http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=31&c=sn&l=en

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  112. hj (6,344 comments) says:

    “Asked by an export manufacturer how small New Zealand businesses could ensure they were not ripped off when trading in China, Sir Henry said bad experiences should be used as opportunities to learn.

    “That’s my point about China. You will be full of surprises. Don’t ever trust them…never..”

    He later said the real intent of his comment was, “Be wary, be very careful.”
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10886643

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  113. hj (6,344 comments) says:

    “That’s my point about China. You will be full of surprises. Don’t ever trust them…never..”
    ……….
    National Realestate sure trusts them (in association with Harcourts Shanghai).

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  114. Engineer (67 comments) says:

    All it means is there are cultural differences —it does not mean ill intent on either side.

    One always need to be wary and careful if you don’t understand the culture of a place, or if you go to a new place –not because the people there are inherently bad or untrustworthy, but simply because the place and culture is unfamiliar.

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  115. Engineer (67 comments) says:

    I don’t think New Zealand (or Australia) has done too bad out of trade with China —the FTA has benefitted NZ enormously:
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/04/the_china_nz_fta.html

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  116. hj (6,344 comments) says:

    ByterNZ (13) Says:
    May 28th, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    DFF, pay attention. HJ just let the mask slip for the rest of the left:
    …………
    Whatever you took from my statement it wasn’t what i intended. I didn’t mean that those who were here first should extract rent from those who come later. The rent seekers are those who seek to mine capital gains from the one million people economic sugar hit. You have to ask the integrity of the NZ Government when they are dismissive of the Savings Working Group and take no heed of the Australian Productivity Commission while limiting the terms of our own Productivity Commission.

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  117. Shazzadude (505 comments) says:

    Kidnapping stats or drug importation stats please, otherwise you’re just cherry-picking for effect.

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