Race based housing

June 21st, 2013 at 9:00 am by David Farrar

Kate Chapman at Stuff reports:

leader Hone Harawira wants to offer Maori first-time homebuyers no-deposit, low-interest loans but admits he doesn’t know how much the programme would cost.

So do I have this right?

If you have a Maori great great grand parent you can get a no deposit, low-interest loan, but if you don’t you are not eligible?

Appalling.

And of course it is not costed. That would require someone to actually do some work, rather than just open the mouth.

Minister Nick Smith said the Mana policy would cost more than $3 billion a year and put New Zealand “seriously in the red”.

The Mana policy is outlined here:

  • Only Maori first home owners would be able to apply
  • There would be no deposit
  • Interest rates would be no higher than the rates government pays on money it borrows
  • Applicants can either build new or buy an existing property
  • Applicants will be able to negotiate mortgage arrangements that suit their circumstances

 

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83 Responses to “Race based housing”

  1. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    Under our current constitutional arrangements no one can legitimately complain about anything “race based” in Aotearoa New Zealand.

    As long as the government insists that the Treaty is in any way significant,that there is a “partnership” between Maori and the Crown, that undefined Treaty principles are included in legislation, that there should be Maori seats in parliament……

    all this gives a base for race based services etc.

    So unless we get real and drop all this Treaty bullshit we will be living with apartheid for the next 100 years.

    And National looks to be entrenching all this in a constitution.

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  2. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    A good indication of the intellectual level of the reviled Hone Harawira. A Stone Age imbecile.

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  3. James Stephenson (1,885 comments) says:

    “seriously in the red”

    In more ways than one.

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  4. Nostalgia-NZ (4,685 comments) says:

    ‘And of course it is not costed. That would require someone to actually do some work, rather than just open the mouth.’

    David says what he really means.

    National want the Maori vote and Hone knows it.

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  5. Samuel Smith (266 comments) says:

    I’m a socialist, but there is no way in the world I would ever support Mana’s policy.

    Maori will naturally benefit from any large-scale government-led state housing project by simply being over represented in lower socio-economic areas and groups.

    Social policy initiatives should target groups in society regardless of race.

    All that said, there is nothing stopping a wealthy iwi like Ngai Tahu entering the new house market and leading a supply-based initiative for Maori.

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  6. alex (298 comments) says:

    Something does need to be done for to make low cost home ownership available to low income people, but I don’t think targeting it at Maori specifically is the way to go.

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  7. Rich Prick (1,320 comments) says:

    Regrettably this will probably appeal to 12% of the population who will gladly have their votes bought.

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  8. gump (1,228 comments) says:

    To be fair, Hone was elected to advocate for Maori interests.

    But he appears to be too stupid to realise that this type of nonsense undermines the public perception of Maori.

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  9. tas (527 comments) says:

    This is the problem with Maori seats. Hone can get into parliament by appealing to a small racial minority, despite being repugnant to the rest of the country.

    Maori seats encourage further racial policies.

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  10. bhudson (4,720 comments) says:

    I don’t think there is anything wrong with this policy at all – should iwi decide to implement it using Treaty settlement funds.

    For sustainability of their settlement wealth, they would be advised to set the interest rate above the average rate of inflation and also to accommodate the value of a mortgage deposit. They might also want to consider factoring in the opportunity cost of such a programme – unless, of course, they deem that the social considerations for the few outweigh the ongoing prosperity of the many (within the iwi).

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  11. MT_Tinman (2,790 comments) says:

    alex (281) Says:
    June 21st, 2013 at 9:12 am
    Something does need to be done for to make low cost home ownership available to low income people, but I don’t think targeting it at Maori specifically is the way to go.

    Why?

    Work hard, work smart, earn good money, buy a house.

    Don’t work hard or smart, earn SFA, rent a dwelling.

    Seems a simple choice to me.

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  12. slightlyrighty (2,448 comments) says:

    And this moron is supported by John Minto? Forget HART, How about Halt all Racist Loans!

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  13. Cunningham (746 comments) says:

    Where is Susan Devoy? If this is not an example of racism then what is??? It is shameful that anyone in parliament would push forward a policy such as this. What about poor white people, samoans, tongans etc?

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  14. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    Chur! :-P

    Bro.

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  15. Black with a Vengeance (1,552 comments) says:

    It’s got nothing to do with “race”…but if the master whistles, the dog barks!

    This policy sounds like it needs to go to cashed up iwi that can provide subsidised loans and houses to its members. Maybe if all the iwi pooled their money, started their own bank and built their own houses like Amish do, it would make more sense.

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  16. Ed Snack (1,535 comments) says:

    I don’t think that Hone’s scheme would cost as much as feared, only “approved” maori people would be eligible. To be approved you would need to be a Harawira, a Harawira supporter, or otherwise be OK’d by Hone or his mother. Others may apply and will be assured that they could qualify…

    Just on the by-election and Mana, they are being very aggressive in some areas, pushing very hard for votes, skirting illegality I would have thought. I personally know of two cases where they have shown up in reasonable numbers to rally or at a polling booth with a sausage sizzle. The organisers claimed in both cases that they had permission to set up where they did; once on private property they claimed to have been approved by the owner (not the local manager of the outlet) whereas the owner says that he in fact said the opposite and that they could not be stopped from using the public spaces but they were not granted permission to occupy the carpark; and once on council property where they claimed to have gained approval from a senior council manager, but that person was never contacted. By the time these misrepresentations (to be polite) were exposed the demonstration/rally was essentially over. And no one on the spot felt able to challenge them, a leavening of very scary, violent, people.

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  17. jaba (2,068 comments) says:

    I would suggest that the Greens Financial Wizard from Oz and his fellow muppets will be interested in the poli…… I mean idea. It seems the Gween Party of Aotearoa are after the Maori (sorry, no macron) vote.

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  18. Rightandleft (574 comments) says:

    Absolutely disgusting that a sitting MP can advocate such racist policies and still have any credibility. Kowtow is right that this is exactly where entrenching the so-called principles of the Treaty in law is leading us. This is why it is very important that a written Constitution must not include the Treaty in it.

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  19. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    The GFC was caused when blacks with cheap mortages defaulted on them.

    The Tribes won’t lend money to their own poor maori people and Hone expects everyone else should – LOL! :cool:

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  20. Kleva Kiwi (267 comments) says:

    Heading is wrong. Should read “racist based housing”.

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  21. Paulus (2,295 comments) says:

    Always thought he was a Dick – now I know even more so.

    Harriet – yes Clinton was persuaded, for votes, by the Senator from Illinois (Chicago) and they decided that people from the lower socio economic areas of Chicago, primarily, could not be turned down for a mortgage irrespective of their job status (even unemployed).
    Freddie and Fanny were told to give mortgages – they said we do not have enough money – they were told – Go Borrow from the Banks.
    Now we know the result.

    The Senator from Chicago blackside – O’bama

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  22. Grendel (873 comments) says:

    alex (281) Says:
    June 21st, 2013 at 9:12 am
    Something does need to be done for to make low cost home ownership available to low income people, but I don’t think targeting it at Maori specifically is the way to go.

    wait you mean like KiwiSaver first home buyers withdrawal, and the KiwiSaver first home buyers subsidy and the Welcome Home Loan?

    i have helped more than a few low income people buy their first home with these options, so why do we need more and who pays for it?

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  23. hj (5,677 comments) says:

    Black with a Vengeance (1,211) Says:
    June 21st, 2013 at 9:26 am

    It’s got nothing to do with “race”…
    ………….
    no it’s about closed societies where knowlege is owned and controlled.

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  24. Nigel Kearney (747 comments) says:

    Tas is right, this is a logical consequence of the Maori seats. It’s crazy to support racist seats and then complain about elected representatives advocating racist policies. That’s precisely what those seats are there for. If the National party doesn’t like this they know how to fix it.

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  25. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    “Our intention is to try to target certain levels for Maori,” he said on Radio New Zealand on Friday.
    “The housing policy isn’t just for Maori, it’s for all New Zealanders.”
    Mr Harawira believes a Labour-led government would accept the policy, but Labour leader David Shearer’s initial reaction was that his party has its own housing policy which doesn’t discriminate.

    You can see it coming.

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  26. Mark1 (78 comments) says:

    And in one quick announcement Mana have suddenly lost the support of their poor white trash constituents.

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  27. hj (5,677 comments) says:

    “Something does need to be done for to make low cost home ownership available to low income people”
    ……
    I agree but that isn’t enough. Policy still needs to reward behaviour. Present thinking (Labour Green Party ) is: baby #4 is as innocent as baby #1; you can’t penalise the parent or #’s 1,2,3,4,5… will suffer….$$$$$
    We need to get real about the human condition and build resilient societies*.
    Ref The Selfish Gene Richard Dawkins.

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  28. hj (5,677 comments) says:

    Mark1 (50) Says:
    June 21st, 2013 at 10:04 am

    And in one quick announcement Mana have suddenly lost the support of their poor white trash constituents.
    MP Kevin Hague
    …………………………….
    Not so fast Meteria Turie, Catherine Delahunty, David Cleddin…Kevin Hague…

    One of jh’s themes has been dis-satisfaction with the Green Party for not being specific about the outcomes of our policy in relation to the Treaty. “What, specifically, will this country be like if we go down this course?”. It’s a question I have heard many times over the years, and it usually speaks from a position of fear and insecurity for Pakeha: what if I’ll be worse off? or even what if there’s no place for me?

    I want to acknowledge that actually we are asking people to do something (and we are doing it too) quite different from what we usually ask with our policy. Normally we have a very clear idea of the outcome we are seeking, and establish a policy to reflect how we will get there.

    But the Treaty is different. The words all have the potential to sound pretty hammy, but fundamentally the outcome being sought is a process: the process of absolute good faith negotiation, in which we Pakeha engage from a position of honour *– acting ethically and morally.

    That process involves courage because we don’t know the outcome (and because we know we have it pretty sweet just how things are, let’s be honest). It is pretty scary, but it’s also pretty damn exciting!

    http://blog.greens.org.nz/2010/05/03/my-speech-at-blackball-2010/
    * weakness Indigenous version signed when 2000 E and 70,000M

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  29. david (2,482 comments) says:

    Just what we need, an endless supply of tinnie houses, P Labs and deteriorating houses that receive no maintenance all funded by those who have a job. Hone is proposing a bottomless pit which he will try and fill with OPM. What a load of old rope!

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  30. Left Right and Centre (2,390 comments) says:

    Hone does a U-turn

    Why the Mana Party sucks arse:

    1) Started off: just for Maori.
    2) U-turn: No-one likes a flip-flop. Now it’s for all New Zealanders.
    3) Blatant vote buying (Te Hamua Nikora): First 500 homes would be in the contested electorate.

    Really? That obvious huh? Why not just offer two dozen for every vote? Pathetic cretins.

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  31. WineOh (428 comments) says:

    So now we are going to create our own version of super-sub-prime loans??

    How about we leave government funding out of it, and if Iwi groups and Maori trusts want to provide subsidised social housing benefits to their own, then let them do their own thing, possibly in a similar way as tertiary education scholarships. Let some good come from treaty settlement payments to their community rather than disappearing into vacuous underperforming investments. That way they also pay the price for their own good/bad credit decision making and not lumped on the NZ taxpayer.

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  32. hj (5,677 comments) says:

    The best way to keep housing affordable and stop the wealth of the land going to the Bob Jones, Olly Newlands, etc is a land tax.
    http://nzae.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/ACAG_Property_Tax_Paper2.pdf
    http://www.nuff.ox.ac.uk/politics/papers/…/McLean%20Land%20tax.pdf

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  33. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    And the many illiterates in the electorate will swallow the bait and give their votes to the racist bribers, allowing them to win the racist seat.

    But not to worry: Labour Lite has promised to abolish the Maori seats circa 2015. Tui ad, coming.

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  34. PhilBest (5,112 comments) says:

    “…….The best way to keep housing affordable and stop the wealth of the land going to the Bob Jones, Olly Newlands, etc is a land tax……”

    I agree with land taxes, but I also say, no growth containment urban planning.

    Land taxes and other fiscal incentives would achieve the efficiency objectives that urban planners allege to be seeking, only without the disgraceful wealth transfers to vested interests and other unintended consequences. I do not believe that land taxes would be the solution to this in the event of continued growth-containment urban planning.

    There are plenty of ways that resource consumption and emissions can be reduced by allowing LOW density development as part of a policy approach. In high density, there is LESS scope for geothermal heat pumps, active and passive solar heating, solar panels and wind turbines, composting, recycling, on-site waste treatment, burning of biomass for heating and cooking, collecting rainwater, etc etc etc.

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  35. Komata (971 comments) says:

    It’s an ‘interesting’ concept, and a deliberate ‘vote catching’ appeal that Hone knows will get him re-elected by his own

    However, out of ‘fairness’ might I suggest that, as ‘pilot programmes’ are usual in cases where large amounts of mony are involved, that Hone initiate one of his own.

    I believe that the ‘Treaty Committee’ (or whatever they are called) have been in the ‘North recently. Therefore, WHEN (not IF) Hone and tribe receive the inevitable large ‘settlement’ (well, at least this installment of same), they put their money where their mouths are and use the settlement monies (inevitably millions of dollars) to set up a ‘pilot programme’ and build/buy new homes for their own. The houses will be built following his stated guidelines concerning loans etc, and most importantly they wil be totally ‘in house’(I know, unitentional pun) without ANY involvement by the hated ‘Whitey MF’s’. This way, Hone will be able to prove that his concept is good, that maori can handle money by themselves and that no-one outside the tribe will be required to help.

    There will be as a result absolutely NO need to involve ‘European’ banks or builders or anyone else who is not ‘of the tribe’, especially if the houses etc are built on tribally-owned land.

    Hone should be in his element, especially as , having proven that the concept works, he will then be able to present it to other tribes and say ‘look what we did’ (by ourselves) and here is how it’s done. He will look good, mama will look good and Northern Maori will be able to be ‘independent’ of ‘whitey’; just what Hone et al want.

    The tribe would of course be responsible for all maintenance, defaults on loans (sorry, I forgot, wrong group, maori are perfect) etc. and by keeping it in-house woukd be able to create jobs and generate their own income.

    I personally think it would be a wonderful opportunity for the Hawawira’s to ‘showcase themselves and the tribe.

    (The only problem is of course that dreams are free and the money will ‘vanish to points unknown’ like snow on a hot Kaitia afternoon. When its gone, as we know, Hone will once again be demanding that ‘Whitey’ provide. Ah well…)

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  36. KiwiGreg (3,129 comments) says:

    why all the histrionics? Race based preferences in New Zealand are nothing new. Not saying I agree with them but you have a maori party campaigning for maori votes.

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  37. wreck1080 (3,522 comments) says:

    This has already happened in Tauranga albeit on a smaller scale.

    Maori are being given taxpayer money to buy homes. But, it was taxpayer money being allocated through some local maori organisation but the general concept is the same.

    I’ll have to find the news article where this was reported.

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  38. In Vino Veritas (136 comments) says:

    This has been tried and failed before. Up until 1989, the Department of Maori Affairs used to lend to anyone with Maori blood at steeply discounted rates, no matter what their income. Many of the loans taken out were impaired, with some that had no repayments made at all. No one bothered to chase the recalcitrant borrowers up. Interest rate on many loans were never changed throughout the life of the loan, for instance, a loan taken out in 1960 at 1.5% may still have had that interest rate in 1989. The loans were transferred to the Iwi Transitional Agency in 1989.
    So, Harawira proposed we do the same thing again, and expect a different result. Throught the repeal of the Glass Steagal Act, didn’t Clinton enable Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to loan to poorer people? And look what happened there. One of the reasons for the financial crisis we are currently experiencing.

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  39. Keeping Stock (9,788 comments) says:

    Harawira must have borrowed “Hey Clint” Smith from the Greens overnight, because he’s suddenly backed away from this being Maori-only

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2013/06/thats-not-what-hone-said-yesterday.html

    We obviously all got it all wrong :P

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  40. PhilBest (5,112 comments) says:

    Why don’t Maori simply do some new “edge cities” or “new towns” on all the land they own already? They could create the most affordable housing in the country, and of high quality at that. Look at “The Woodlands” near Houston, to see what can be done when you have not had to pay land bankers $1,000,000 plus per acre for the land.

    Yes, you can have housing for half the price and twice the quality. It ain’t rocket science. You can also have jobs-housing balance. “The Woodlands” gave away serviced sites to desirable employers to attract them in. Again, as I say, this is what you can do when you are working outside the racket in land run by urban planners.

    When it cost you $1,000,000+ per acre, you don’t want to give any of it away. In fact you want to cram saleable sections and houses in on a mathematical formula, with cul-de-sacs (intersections are sacrificed saleable space), narrow roads, narrow footpaths, no green space, no parks, no rights-of-way for future infrastructure maintenance, etc etc. If the planners force them to sacrifice space to anything it forces the cost of the houses up. Sacrificing 1/3 of the total development means $150,000 raw land cost per 1/10 of an acre section instead of $100,000.

    And the planning utopians call this “suburban sprawl” and say we must avoid it……!

    And 1/3 of the development is peanuts in real life terms – 50% is more common for “unsaleable” space. This means $200,000 raw land cost per 1/10 of an acre section. In contrast, farmland is typically around $10,000 per acre. This means if you sacrifice 2/3 of the land to “amenity”, your raw land cost for a QUARTER ACRE section is $7,500 instead of $2,500. This, my friends, is why all the still-affordable cities in the USA are low density.

    And the compact city advocates accuse people like ME of serving “vested interests”? Nothing to see in the recent revelations of people who bought land for $800,000 in 1992 selling it now for $112 million? Nothing to see in the quote from Cheshire and Mills in their introduction to “The Handbook of Regional and Urban Economics” Volume 3 (1999):

    “…….If we compare communities in the US and UK that are as comparable as possible except for the constraints their systems of land use regulation place on the supply of land, we observe that the price of retail land is up to 100,000 times higher in the most constrained community……”

    If you look around on Google Earth at the amount of tall-building CBD space in different national economies, NZ has an absurd amount for a nation its size, especially one with an economy based on farming exports. No rent-seeking from urban planning to be seen here?

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  41. Alan Wilkinson (1,798 comments) says:

    And here we were thinking this was just a plot to treble the number of Maori in NZ.

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  42. hj (5,677 comments) says:

    Phil Best says:

    In high density, there is LESS scope for geothermal heat pumps, active and passive solar heating, solar panels and wind turbines, composting, recycling, on-site waste treatment, burning of biomass for heating and cooking, collecting rainwater, etc etc etc.
    ………
    It depends what we are talking about but an eco village can still have allotments. Cars are expensive (I know that because I ride a bike and my wife drives a car… oh man what a difference!). You keep quoting Woodlands (Houston) but private enterprise is profit driven and the tendency will be to take one rectangle and convert it into as many squares as possible.

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  43. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    KS – I noticed that.

    Either it is a rapid reworking of something that was going to be toxic for most voters, and also for Labour.

    Or it was a carefully staged attention seeker yesterday with a planned more moderate folowup today.

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  44. hj (5,677 comments) says:

    Phil Best:

    “Why don’t Maori simply do some new “edge cities” or “new towns” on all the land they own already? They could create the most affordable housing in the country, and of high quality at that. Look at “The Woodlands” near Houston, to see what can be done when you have not had to pay land bankers $1,000,000 plus per acre for the land.”
    …….
    Because a suburb/town needs an economy (and a city has an ecology in a wider hinterland)…. space isn’t the issue.
    The Demographia thesis is that resources don’t matter (when markets aren’t interfered with).

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  45. simo (150 comments) says:

    We are all done here…wave a few placards around next year just remind the prick who pays his bills!

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  46. doggone7 (487 comments) says:

    Manolo; “And the many illiterates in the electorate will swallow the bait and give their votes to the racist bribers, allowing them to win the racist seat.”

    What Harawira is suggesting will be stupid, loony, racist, bizarre, sensible, whatever, to whoever has heard about it and has an opinion.
    What he has to do is appeal to his electorate. All they have to do is respond. That is how the system works.

    Using Manolo’s words as a frame, it is interesting to use the Epsom electorate and John Banks’ election as a scenario to match the Harawira situation. Not for any racial element but for the bizarre.

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  47. hj (5,677 comments) says:

    The Maori Party only got 1.4% 2011 election.The way I see it we all hanker for the spot the Great Grandparents settled in and see ourselves strutting up and down the flat area over looking the beach. Then we realise how many whanau are around since then and realise it will be a timeshare arangement and Goldcoast is warmer..

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  48. Keeping Stock (9,788 comments) says:

    Pete George said

    Either it is a rapid reworking of something that was going to be toxic for most voters, and also for Labour.

    Or it was a carefully staged attention seeker yesterday with a planned more moderate folowup today.

    If it was just Harawira’s doing, I would suggest that it was the former. But he has some rat-cunning people helping the Mana Party, so I’d suggest that this is probably an exercise in grandstanding. Who knows though; it might be enough to get his candidate across the line in Ikaroa-Rawhiti, which would be a dreadful blow for Labour.

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  49. EmmaChisit (18 comments) says:

    Stand back a bit people.
    Its electioneering!! It will never happen for many many reasons.
    Like WInston, Hone is great at grandstanding and half truths-after all he is only looking for marginal votes and this targets those marginal people and the woollie socialists.

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  50. PaulL (5,774 comments) says:

    @hj: Canberra is a case in point. The airport planning controls are handled by the Federal govt, the rest of the place generally handled by the territory govt (there are a handful of other exceptions).

    There’s now a large business park at the airport, under the federal planning controls (almost nil planning controls). The guy who owns the airport land has built it. He’s done whatever he wants. It does not at all meet your description – it’s heavily landscaped with lots of free space.

    The reality is that the market provides what people want to buy. If people want to buy tiny jammed in blocks, the market would provide that. If people want to buy bigger and nicer blocks, then the market would provide that too. Planning controls are mostly aimed at distorting the market – they’re specifically aimed at not allowing people to buy something that they otherwise would have bought.

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  51. PhilBest (5,112 comments) says:

    HJ, you are just blathering. I am talking about reality, and you are talking about some imaginary world that exists in your head.

    Where is there a development where the developer got the land at rural values, where he still crammed in houses? Why are there so many low density developments in the affordable cities in the USA? Developers acting out of character, according to you.

    “…..a suburb/town needs an economy, and a city has an ecology in a wider hinterland…..”

    No international trade in food or any resources then? By your “economics”, the price of a TV would have to be determined by the minerals necessary to make a TV locally being mined within 30km of a city.

    You obviously haven’t a clue about transport economics and land economics. The cost of land is forced up by urban planning to literally dozens of times a greater cost for households than the alleged cost of running a car a slightly greater distance, or even instead of catching public transport – or even instead of walking for free. There is no way the difference between a $150,000 house in an affordable US city and the same thing for $750,000 in Dorkland, can be clawed back in “transport cost savings”.

    In any case the “transport cost savings” are a myth. People in low density Indianapolis, for example, spend far less time traveling to work than Dorklanders living at 3 times the density. This is because 1) the congestion is exponentially lower and 2) no-one is “priced out” of the locations where the jobs are.

    Public transport is now so inefficient on average that it is costing a similar amount to if everyone using it just drove a car, and the subsidies of fares are breaking local budgets.

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  52. PhilBest (5,112 comments) says:

    HJ, I already discussed the reality that jobs-housing balance is possible with “edge cities” and “new towns” and anyway, travel between seemingly-isolated nodes of development might be 5 minutes at 100 km/h which is massively superior to a 50 minute crawl into the city. It is trying to concentrate jobs and amenities in a single large cluster that is lunacy on all counts.

    Read William Wheaton, “Commuting, Ricardian Rent, and House Prices in Cities with Dispersed Employment and Mixed Land Use”.

    The evolutionary tendency is in the direction of closer and closer co-location of jobs and households and lower and lower land costs relative to incomes. “Planning” actually disrupts this beneficial evolution, which is now to be seen in many US cities, which is why they are pissing all over the planned cities for efficiency – and the planning utopians are in denial about it.

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  53. PhilBest (5,112 comments) says:

    So I repeat my advice to the Maori leadership – talk to some American developers of “edge cities”, and go for it and put some of that land of yours to some practical use. Try the famous architect/urban designer Ian McHarg, for example.

    Give the whanau first dibs on the affordable (but still high quality) housing by all means. You’d still be helping the common good. Just make sure you’ve attracted the right employers into the location too. Including taxpayer funded Maori bureaucracies – this is completely “weightless” income for a location, and hugely beneficial. The fact that Wellington has most of the nation’s bureaucracies and yet has a stagnating local economy in spite of this disadvantage, is an indictment on how mismanaged the city/region is.

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  54. wreck1080 (3,522 comments) says:

    Here you go… taxpayer funded houses for maori….homeless white people need not apply…

    http://www.bayofplentytimes.co.nz/news/anger-over-homes-for-maori/1836297/

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  55. PhilBest (5,112 comments) says:

    Thanks for that link, Wreck1080.

    Bob Clarkson is so right.

    “…..The city council last year “shot down” his plan to provide 1000 affordable homes for $280,000 each. Everyone should be able to access affordable housing, no matter what colour their skin was, he said……”

    Maori leaders should get on with utilising some of those massive land holdings they have, to do $280,000 affordable homes without any taxpayer grants at all.

    If taxpayer grants are getting forked out to bureaucracies to help subsidise affordable housing for particular constituencies, this is yet another sickening aspect of the whole urban planning racket. All the subsidies are just flowing into the pockets of “big property” at the end of the day.

    Portland, Oregon, is riddled with examples of much worse than this sort of thing. The owners of sites that the “planners” have designated for a particular kind of development (“transit oriented” etc) hold out for higher and higher prices for their sites, and development finally occurs with massive subsidy sweeteners at the local taxpayers cost, and the property owners gain. Whereas in Atlanta or Houston, the costs associated with “transit oriented development” are minimal because all land everywhere in the city is cheap anyway, and people can pretty much take it or leave it.

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  56. Sam Buchanan (499 comments) says:

    “Why don’t Maori simply do some new “edge cities” or “new towns” on all the land they own already?”

    In Hamilton Tainui seem to be doing just that – much to the horror of the Hamilton City Council who tried to use planning laws to block the move.

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  57. rouppe (852 comments) says:

    Maori have land, and they have significant cash assets thanks to treaty (so called) full and final settlements. There is no reason Maori iwi can’t support their own people into housing.

    The money the Maori Trusts have should be counted as an asset for those that are affiliated with that iwi the same way that family trust assets are counted when determining government entitlements

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  58. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    I think Maori should not have to suffer the indignity of being forced to live in a contemporary European style house. Any housing provided should be traditional and made from sticks and grass.

    They have plenty of land, sticks & grass already, so I see no problem.

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  59. wreck1080 (3,522 comments) says:

    Too right kea, maori like to pick the best of both cultures.

    They are all too willing to forget the benefits that Europeans bought over — such as healthcare, stable political systems, and human rights such as thou shalt not eat your neighbours.

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  60. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    wreck1080, yes the ungrateful buggers. I actually blame the white accademics for that chip on their shoulder. Maori are perfectly capable of sorting themselves out. They are resourceful people.

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  61. Komata (971 comments) says:

    Kea”

    Re: ‘They are resourceful people’.

    Definitely: how else can we explain the incredible ‘double, quadruple (nay,incessent) ‘dipping; that has been going on in this country since the 1920′s (and probably earlier) ; all in the name of ‘Treaty Settlements’ of course.

    Yes, a very, very resourceful people, especially as they have worked-out that they can both have settlements AND continue to cry-out for ongoing government monies as well, ‘because they are so poor and deprived (by the ‘whitey colonial oppressors’ of course).

    A most excellent and perceptive comment on your part.

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  62. Black with a Vengeance (1,552 comments) says:

    Ain’t nothing wrong with choosing the best of both worlds, wreck 1080.

    Beats choosing the worst, and there is a lot to choose…from both sides.

    Accentuate the positive. Do try not to be a racist hatemongering lowlife piece of shit eh?

    There’s a good lad…now run along :)

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  63. Komata (971 comments) says:

    BWV

    Re: your comment to wreck 1080 accusing him of being a ‘racist hatemongering lowlife piece of shit’.

    Am I correct in believing that, in light of your comment, you consider yourself to be above such a description?

    One wonders (purely in the name of ‘clarification’ of course).

    Thanks.

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  64. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    Beats choosing the worst

    Unfortunately Black this is precisely what Maori have done. The vast majority of Maori have chosen to be lazy, uneducated, angry, selfish and violent.

    Their leaders, with education, have chosen to let them be that way, possibly because it makes them so much easier to control and manipulate. Such as Hone, coming out with this handout policy, which fools the stupid Maori into thinking Hone gives a shit about them, when all Hone cares about is using them to get himself elected.

    After all, if he really gave a shit about them, he’d talk about getting them educated, and making them into shining beacons of light, like Mandela said:

    “Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It’s not just in some of us; it’s in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.”

    But you don’t hear Hone or any other Maori leader saying stuff like that, do you Black. Not because it’s wrong, but because if they did, then pretty soon all the poor, lazy and stupid ones wouldn’t be lazy and stupid anymore, and that would really fuck up people like Hone big time, wouldn’t it.

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  65. Komata (971 comments) says:

    Reid

    Re the matter of ‘Maori’ education:

    FWIW, it is very noticable that since 1840, certain tribes HAVE actually taken the whole education concept very seriously (and did from the earliest days of European settlement, Ngata and Carroll were very staunch advocates). That is why certain tribes predominate in the ‘upper echelons’ of this country.

    Unfortunately not all tribal leaders placed the same importance on such things (indeed some were vehemently against it), presumably out of fear that with ‘education’ they would loose control of their minions (not much has changed BTW).

    I’ll leave you to work-out whch tribes have done what, but thought you might like to know.

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  66. Black with a Vengeance (1,552 comments) says:

    Oh fuck off Reid.

    That is not ‘precisely’ what Maori have done at all.

    Not only that, but Mandela never said that either.

    Jeez, you’re a fucking moran!

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  67. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Ungrateful darkie with an attitude, how are all the settlements being used to help Maori ? I deal with Maori folk all the time. None seem to benefit from the settlements. Where is it all going ?

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  68. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    That is not ‘precisely’ what Maori have done at all.

    Then how come in every city in NZ there are whole suburbs of poor, angry, uneducated, selfish and violent Maori Black?

    This isn’t compulsory behaviour, you know. You’re a Maori, aren’t you. And are you poor, uneducated or violent? No? Case closed. It is a choice, no-one forces people to be like that. And if leaders are for real, then its up to them to LEAD, isn’t it. And do they? This is the truth, Black. Deal with it.

    I’ll leave you to work-out whch tribes have done what, but thought you might like to know.

    Yes I know there are Komata, and I take great heart from those, why I heard of one doing just that on the news the other day and I know there are many, I think it was Te Heu Heu’s in Taupo, can’t remember. But the fact they do, proves my point even more.

    Looking at it from the outside, my observation is that Maori’s greatest strength is their warrior heritage and it’s also their greatest weakness. It’s their strength because when properly tapped it gives attitudes of incredibly strong endurance, discipline, intelligence and all the other qualities necessary for success in this world. Shame it doesn’t give love, but that’s OK, can’t have everything. But when it’s not properly tapped it brings laziness, arrogance, entitlement, anger and all the negativity that comes from adults who act like extremely angry spoilt little brats, and that becomes despair eventually, as they grow old and compare themselves to others their own age and intelligence who’ve made it in the world. And the latter is what we’re seeing in many, and no-one but Maori leaders can save the situation, and they’re not. Instead, the Maori leaders are preaching entitlement and hatred which gets inculcated into poorly educated immature minds and comes out as expressions of we own the whole country because it was stolen. That’s bullshit, but that’s what’s happening and we now have an entire generation of Maori who largely have that attitude, thanks to the Maori leadership who have commissioned it and the European leadership who have not prevented it by standing up and calling the bullshit before it’s too late. A sin of commission and omission by all of our leaders, which we will all pay for, one way or another.

    The warrior attitude that comes from Iti who for example gave up drinking when he got his moko, is what you want to emulate. The selfish attitude of entitlement and hatred that comes from Hone is what you want to reject. But the opposite will happen, I predict.

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  69. nasska (9,501 comments) says:

    Few ever get their heads around the Treaty settlements. They are not payouts to Maori as a people but to various tribes who can prove or create a grievance over treatment or land disputes. Thus the payments are received & dealt with by the elders of the tribe who have stayed on their tribal lands. They are also usually the Maori elite & are less likely to face questioning than other tribal members.

    Many, if not most, Maori have migrated to the cities & towns often alienating them from their rural roots. Those who handle the treaty monies are not going to give up their BMW lifestyle to help the poor mokopuna they only see at tangis.

    It’s not hard to feel empathy with the successful urban Maori who along with his urban pakeha counterparts pays a hefty hunk of his income to support a Maori industry they can never hope to benefit from.

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  70. Black with a Vengeance (1,552 comments) says:

    No…I’m not Maori, poor, uneducated or violent and there is no suburb full of them in Nelson.

    But you on the other hand are still a fucking moron, and a lying one at that!

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  71. Longknives (4,044 comments) says:

    “Applicants will be able to negotiate mortgage arrangements that suit their circumstances”

    “Times are tough Bro… Booze and smokes are pricey and our Bennie only pays us $700 a week….Can we pay this mortgage off at $50 a week bro? Chur!!”

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  72. Komata (971 comments) says:

    BWAV

    Your comments are noted with interest – very enlightening indeed. BTW, Psychologists tell us that how/what we write to others is a direct and unconcious (subliminal) reflection of our ‘inner’ selves, and that no matter what we do, this cannot be altered ‘in the natural’.

    In light of your comments, I thought it important that you be made aware of this fact; make of it what you will (although no doubt others already have) ………

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  73. OneTrack (1,960 comments) says:

    “EmmaChisit (7) Says:
    June 21st, 2013 at 11:20 am
    Stand back a bit people.
    Its electioneering!! It will never happen for many many reasons.
    Like WInston, Hone is great at grandstanding and half truths-after all he is only looking for marginal votes and this targets those marginal people and the woollie socialists.”

    Is it? Is it really just electioneering? If Hone gets his seat then that is a vote at the table when Russel Norman is attempting to put a government together after NZ votes for a “change” in 2014. The price of his vote will be the public ( taxpayers ) money to build a racist housing development. The question is, would Russel say no to that deal? And maybe before answering that question, read anything that any of the top ten in the Green Party’s line up have said about maori – but especially Catherine Delahunty (number 4 on their list I think).

    So how about we hear some of the “many many reasons” that it will never happen?

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  74. Muzza M (286 comments) says:

    Hey BWAV @ 7.22pm – You obviously have not walked down Orchard Street in Stoke recently.

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  75. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    No…I’m not Maori, poor, uneducated or violent and there is no suburb full of them in Nelson.

    Correct, so why do you portray Maori as victims owed a favour ? You have already pointed out that Maori are not a natural underclass. The Nelson raised Maori families are invisible and now it is North Island raised Maori with a whole lot of Mongrel Mob ties. What is your point cheeky darkie ?

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  76. Chuck Bird (4,403 comments) says:

    @wreck1080 (2,928) Says:
    June 21st, 2013 at 12:05 pm

    wreck, that was an interesting link. Did you read some of the comments by Maori who were opposed and embarrassed by this racist idea of Hone?

    Hone is very much like militant Muslims. He is happy to encourage racial disharmony.

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  77. Chuck Bird (4,403 comments) says:

    “The vast majority of Maori have chosen to be lazy, uneducated, angry, selfish and violent.”

    Have you got any evidence to support such a racist view?

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  78. adze (1,695 comments) says:

    Reid the “vast majority” of Maori are nothing of the sort. Please keep that kind of crap out of it – it only detracts from the topic, which is the perniciousness of Hone’s policy.

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  79. atihana (4 comments) says:

    I can’t believe the adverse comment about Hone’s policy on housing for Maori. But we’ve been there before.My first house built with a State Advances loan (3.5 % interest?), family benefit capitalization and a second mortgage from the PSIS. Those were the same criteria as a Maori Affairs Dept loan but the wait time was shorter. Unfortunately I found out why later. That house was a group house built by some fast Eddies. My next house was an ex-Maori Affairs house and well built with good materials etc. A good Pakeha friend of mine criticized Maori having their own Maori Affairs housing scheme (Hone’s scheme?). I told him that the only advantage I had was having two government loan agencies to choose from. Incidentally I knew Pakeha spouses of Maori getting Maori Affairs housing loans. Banks weren’t very generous to Maori back then. Maori are not responsible for the meager supply of houses that is causing the current crisis. I applaud Hone’s policy whatever the numbers. It’s no use criticizing the costs nor the ethnic basis of the policy. In a town like Gisbourne social, housing and other needs often equate with ethnicity.

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  80. adze (1,695 comments) says:

    Atihana and what’s wrong with making a housing subsidy available based on need, rather than ethnicity? You don’t see a problem with someone who is middle class and Maori getting a hand-out over someone who is very poor and non-Maori?

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  81. Black with a Vengeance (1,552 comments) says:

    Komata

    Psychologists are full of shit and so are you.

    Blow it out your arse :)

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  82. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    There you are, BWAV: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10892362

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  83. atihana (4 comments) says:

    Adze; In my day middle class was based on occupation rather than size of income or ethnicity. I lived in a street full of working class whanau with more income than myself; a poor School Teacher. State Advances Corporation criteria for house loans was based on income as well as numbers of children etc. We were one of four Maori whanau who were given loans in a group housing street of about 16 houses. However in places like Gisborne ethnicity and need are co-related or meshed to a high degree. A middle class Maori should certainly not get a loan ahead of some poor Pakeha whanau but bear in mind not all middle class whanau are rich.

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