Another study finds charter schools outperform

July 3rd, 2013 at 9:00 am by David Farrar

Nicholas Jones writes:

Charter school students outperform their public school peers in some areas, a new study shows, as the Government continues to work towards introducing the controversial schools in New Zealand.

Yet the opposition and their unions say that must not even be trialled in NZ.

My view is simple. Allow suitable applicants to establish charter schools, so long as no student is forced to attend one (they won’t be), and keep them going only so long as they match or exceed the performance of other schools.

The study by Stanford University researchers at the Center for Research on Education Outcomes examined the standardised test results of students enrolled in charter schools in 26 states and New York City.

Results were compared to those of students with the same demographics and academic profiles in public schools that the charter students would have otherwise attended.

The original study in 2009 found many students in charter schools were not performing as well as those in nearby public schools, and was widely cited by opponents of the publicly funded, privately-run schools.

However, the updated study shows that, overall, charter school students are now surpassing those in public schools in reading gains and keeping pace in maths.

This is a major finding. It reverses the earlier study that opponents were citing.

The improvement was helped by the closure of 8 per cent of schools included in the 2009 analysis because they were underperforming.

And this is key. You generally can not close a state school that is merely under-performing. Charter schools are more accountable as they can be closed for non-performance.

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48 Responses to “Another study finds charter schools outperform”

  1. BeaB (1,958 comments) says:

    I bet we don’t hear this from any of the opponents or the MSM.

    The opposition is political not educational.

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  2. Urban Redneck (234 comments) says:

    The Marxist education politburo has been running rings around politically lightweight Ministers like Lockwood Smith and Hekia Parata for decades.

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  3. Redbaiter (6,481 comments) says:

    Urban Redneck is perfectly correct. Charter schools are a brave attempt to put things right in education but the move is far too limited in its scope.

    We need a PM who will inspire a widespread cultural push back against Progressivism/ socialism and wipe the bastards out completely in a political sense, otherwise these schools will just be shut down when National loses power. As they’re likely to do in the next election.

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  4. eszett (2,272 comments) says:

    BeaB (1,651) Says:
    July 3rd, 2013 at 9:21 am
    I bet we don’t hear this from any of the opponents or the MSM.

    A bet you lost the second you posted it.
    Looks like you didn’t even bother to follow the link.

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  5. YesWeDid (1,003 comments) says:

    ‘We need a PM who will inspire a widespread cultural push back against Progressivism/ socialism and wipe the bastards out completely in a political sense’

    Given that something like 80% of the population support centre left or centre right parties then wiping out ‘progressivism/socialism’ isn’t going to happen any time soon. If Key suddenly became far right in the way you want him to be his government would thrashed in the next election.

    What do you suggest Redbaiter? Shall we just let the army take over?

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  6. Redbaiter (6,481 comments) says:

    I am saying that any effort to fix a dysfunctional education system is admirable but it is futile in itself. Unless the core problem is fixed, that being NZer’s sad infatuation with extreme left policies, then it will only ever offer a very temporary and small solution.

    So John Key by his failure to inspire and lead people away from the destructive ideas of the left will never really improve anything in NZ. The polls are close now when after so much time as leader Key should have been able to draw votes way from the left. Instead Key himself has pandered to them.

    Charter schools are fine but the whole idea is undermined by Key’s failure to lead. Rather he has put more NZers at ease with socialism/ progressivism, and that is why the polls show the position of the Nat Party govt as tenuous at best. Charter schools are good. John Key is a failure.

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  7. CHFR (195 comments) says:

    eszett the MSM (as per the 9am news on ZB) have publicised this, indeed but BeaB is correct they have only publicised some very suspect findings from the NZEI in support of their argument. From the news I thought the study was critical of charter schools but to my surprise it was not/sarc.

    What do the unions have to fear it is by choice as parents we send our kids there they will still have plenty of kids to teach.

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  8. kiwigunner (184 comments) says:

    ‘The Stanford study found the average charter school student showed gains in reading equivalent to those expected from an extra eight days of learning compared to traditional school students, with improvements in maths about equal’.

    Hardly anything to get excited about. Come back when the studies show 8 months gains. This is margin or error stuff and, it seems, only in reading. 20 years of Charter schools for this? That this is being trumpeted as some sort of sign of Charter School success shows just how hollow man the Charter School argument is.

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  9. Urban Redneck (234 comments) says:

    Remember though, that the charter school policy was just an assurance the Nats made to the lamentable John Banks after the last election.

    I don’t believe for a second National are philosophically committed to the idea or indeed have the resolve and political will to get it done.

    National politicians go to sleep when they get elected to government. They get comfortable in the big fat armchairs and the languid limousine rides and forget why they were elected in the first place. They never unwind Marxist policies, preferring to manage “the status quo” and all the while they never muster the courage to tackle the intelligentsia working against them by cradle snatching future voters through the indoctrination centres we call the public education system.

    Like termites eating away at the foundations of a house, generations of Marxist “educators” have successfully brainwashed our children into swallowing a little bit more of the poison every year.

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  10. doggone7 (493 comments) says:

    My view is simple. Allow suitable applicants to establish charter schools, so long as students who attend are those identified as being from the “the long tail of underachievers.”

    The hysterical reasoning from the outset of the discussion about charter schools was that we needed to do something different because some kids were not succeeding in the traditional schools.

    What will most likely happen is that parents who want their kids to do well but are in schools largely made up of the lowest socio-economic groups, with the attendant issues, will move their kids out to a charter school where they can. It used to be called white flight. Because they will have a choice and because they are interested they will do that. A more apposite description because it is not necessarily based on ethnicity, is “plight flight.”

    With but a handful of charter schools at the start not many parents are going to have the escape option. Further down the track with motivated parents and families happily ensconced in their charter schools, what will be left will be the good old local ghetto school full of all the underachievers who John Banks, John Key and Hekia Parata are only interested in as far as they provide excuses to privatise schools.

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  11. kiwigunner (184 comments) says:

    And further the report goes on to include-
    “The fraction of charter schools that outperform their local TPS alternatives is 25% of charter
    schools in reading and 29% in math. This marks an improvement since 2009 when 17% of
    charter schools outperformed their local TPS in math. The fraction that performed worse
    declined slightly in math (31% down from 37% in 2009) and in reading accounted for 19% of
    charter schools’.
    and
    ‘Despite these improvements, there remain worrying numbers of charter schools whose
    learning gains are either substantially worse than the local alternative or are insufficient to
    give their students the academic preparation they need to continue their education or be
    successful in the workforce”.

    Yes, an improvement but still lamentable and in New Zealand unnecessary. Better to concentrate on continuing to lift our own, already high quality, system and reducing the social affects that lead to disadvantage and difficulty at school.

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  12. Redbaiter (6,481 comments) says:

    “Better to concentrate on continuing to lift our own, already high quality, system and reducing the social affects that lead to disadvantage and difficulty at school.”

    The rantings of a delusional idiot totally detached from reality. Its only when we can restore sanity to the discussion and leave atrocious ideologically driven propaganda like the above behind that education will improve.

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  13. Rightandleft (574 comments) says:

    All NZ public schools are charter schools by the definition the US uses. So we should already be getting these advantages. In fact we know that we are because our system significantly outperforms the US system. There is an additional problem with the study though. It used performance on narrow American-style standardised tests to measure students. Some US charter schools (and many public schools) have narrowed their teaching to focus entirely on getting students to beat the tests, to the detriment of the rest of their education. Passing a multiple guess test does not show real thinking skills. I know this because I grew up in that system and took after school courses to learn specifically how to beat the tests. NZ thankfully doesn’t use such foolish and limited multiple-guess exams.

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  14. Mark (1,302 comments) says:

    The NZ education system is not perfect but by international standards is performing very well in certain areas. It is not broken, but there is no doubt it needs to improve for Maori, pacific Island students and those kids in low decile areas.

    Foaming at the mouth because teachers are unionised does not take away the fact that the NZ system is a good one in general terms. Charter schools may or may not solve the issues around the bottom quartile performance so may be worth trying so long as it is not a distraction from the bulk of schools getting properly resourced. If our state school system is diminished in any way by this programme it is probably not worth doing.

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  15. doggone7 (493 comments) says:

    ‘The Stanford study found the average charter school student showed gains in reading equivalent to those expected from an extra eight days of learning compared to traditional school students, with improvements in maths about equal’.

    Quantifying learning at the simplistic level of an “extra eight days of learning” sounds good as a soundbite. It is a bizarre notion and comment.

    Reducing the complexity, individuality and organic nature of learning to this, encapsulates the brain dead marketisation and politicisation of schooling, and through that, kids’ learning.

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  16. burt (7,091 comments) says:

    Charter schools are more accountable as they can be closed for non-performance.

    Where will it end … this implies we might get rid of poor quality teachers as well and if we do that union membership numbers will go down…. We simply can’t allow union membership to fall because if we do the donations to highly paid politicians will reduce… if that happens highly paid politicians might need to dig into their own pockets for their political advertising rather than tapping the pockets of underpaid teachers… Simply unacceptable…

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  17. dime (8,778 comments) says:

    ZB news this morning:

    “19% of charter schools are way behind normal schools according to new research”. Then some union hack tells us how its the end of the world if we bring them in here.

    That newsroom is a fucking disgrace. My immediate thought – what about the other 81%?

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  18. dime (8,778 comments) says:

    “The NZ education system is not perfect but by international standards is performing very well in certain areas. It is not broken, but there is no doubt it needs to improve for Maori, pacific Island students and those kids in low decile areas.

    Foaming at the mouth because teachers are unionised does not take away the fact that the NZ system is a good one in general terms”

    so generally, 20% of kids leaving school with a reading age of fuck all is “ok”.

    How come the left cant take that view with “poverty”. apparently 20% of people not having the latest iphone means Dime has to pay more tax.

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  19. kiwigunner (184 comments) says:

    ‘so generally, 20% of kids leaving school with a reading age of fuck all is “ok”’.

    Any data to support this assertion?

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  20. dime (8,778 comments) says:

    kiwigunner – sure. try google.co.nz

    the stat is somewhere around there. especially if youre brown.

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  21. kiwigunner (184 comments) says:

    Happy to do so -
    In relation to three key learning areasabut including literacy the OECD says:

    The data shows that New Zealand children rank seventh among OECD countries, with comparable data in terms of the average score across the three scales, behind Finland, Korea, Japan, Canada, the Netherlands and Australia. New Zealand rates above the OECD average on each of the scales – fifth in reading, ninth in mathematics and seventh in science.

    I’d say under any measure (short of your type of ‘I know without the benefit of any facts at all’ approach) this is very good.

    Charter School laden USA no where to be seen.

    I’m all for folk having an opinion but if it is simply ill-informed and ignorant of the facts maybe you would be better off following the dictum that it is better to stay silent and allow others to think you stupid than to open your mouth (in this case keyboard) and prove it to them.

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  22. doggone7 (493 comments) says:

    kiwigunner

    The assertion made is wrong. It is a political statistic used to suck in the gullible. As such it has worked. If true it would mean that, according to that erstwhile Associate Minister of Education John Banks, of the 300 leaving our local school high school this year 60 would be leaving illiterate. Sorry rephrase that. Since all who leave Kings College and Auckland Grammar are fine their percentage is zero. So that would have to put our percentages up. So of 300 leaving say 80 or 90 will be illiterate. Yeah right.

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  23. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    “Child molesters of the mind” is what Lindsay Perigo called the State education elite and their whacky and failing indoctrination of children….how right he was. Why National doesn’t back the freeing up of education and the teaching of economics and financially literacy is beyond me…Kids so educated will grow to support party’s of the Right over the clueless Socialist nong’s on the left.

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  24. Rightandleft (574 comments) says:

    The 20% figure has never been backed up by the Minister. It also must be understood that the so-called long tail includes many children with intellectual disabilities who have been mainstreamed and thus do not get the individual support they need. It also includes many recent immigrant children with low English language ability and who have not had the benefit of 13 years of education in NZ but arrived here at some point in the middle of their schooling and began with a massive deficit.

    Another section of the tail is caused by poor parenting (sometimes linked to poverty but not always). Teachers can hardly make up for the years of neglect parents have inflicted on their kids in the few hours a week they see them, if they show up at all that is. Truancy plays a huge part in the problems of the long-tail as well.

    These are all problems that I cannot see new-style charter schools solving in any way. I would suggest the higher funding National has just given to ECE is the best policy decision they’ve made in relation to helping those failing in school. Getting to the kids early offers the best shot. But more funding needs to go to special education and ESOL and they need to abandon the failed policy of mainstreaming disabled children.

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  25. Mark (1,302 comments) says:

    dime (6,554) Says:
    July 3rd, 2013 at 12:00 pm
    “The NZ education system is not perfect but by international standards is performing very well in certain areas. It is not broken, but there is no doubt it needs to improve for Maori, pacific Island students and those kids in low decile areas.

    Foaming at the mouth because teachers are unionised does not take away the fact that the NZ system is a good one in general terms”

    so generally, 20% of kids leaving school with a reading age of fuck all is “ok”.

    How come the left cant take that view with “poverty”. apparently 20% of people not having the latest iphone means Dime has to pay more tax.

    Is Dime short for Dimwit. That is not close to what my post said or implied have another read you might get it the second time through

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  26. dime (8,778 comments) says:

    is mark short for fuck head?

    our education system is not great. especially when you consider how much money we put into education.

    teachers are low aspiration having mofo’s.

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  27. doggone7 (493 comments) says:

    Rightandleft

    “These are all problems that I cannot see new-style charter schools solving in any way.”

    Charter schools will not have to sort out those problems. Charter schools will not necessarily be taking those pupils. The bluster from the beginning of the charter schools campaign was around sorting out the kids not coping with schooling. If John Banks put his money where his mouth is and shown he was genuine about helping the strugglers you have identified, he would ensure those underachievers were enrolled in his charter schools.

    Sorry, I apologise for using “genuine’ in the same sentence as Banks.

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  28. kiwigunner (184 comments) says:

    I understand that doggone – the suggested numbers of so called illiterate children is just ridiculous – but then you get Dime and it makes you think again!

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  29. Rightandleft (574 comments) says:

    Dime,

    Actually our education system does very well despite the amount of money put into it. Education at a Glance 2009 showed that we spend over $1500 less per student than the OECD average, yet we rank in the top quarter of OECD countries for PISA results. We do spend a higher amount of our GDP on education than the OECD average (so I’m not saying we are being cheap) but because of our lower GDP compared to the other top ranking countries we are punching above our weight.

    Also there’s no need to generalise about all teachers in such derogatory terms. The majority of teachers I know have very high aspirations for their students and consider their job just as important as a doctor or lawyer’s. They just don’t measure success in terms of salary level.

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  30. dime (8,778 comments) says:

    kiwigunner – really? it makes you think again huh? must suck knowing that some as illiterate as yourself makes more money than you ;)

    shouldnt you be back in class by now? eager students cant wait to be talked down to and bullied

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  31. kiwigunner (184 comments) says:

    And that’s the rub.

    Folk like you Dime just can’t see that teachers, not all but most I’ve met, do their job for the children not the money. They have to pay the bills like every one else of course but they, nor I, begrudge you what ever you earn – good luck to you. What is irksome is that you spout out unsubstantiated and derogatory claims about people and the profession that you clearly know nothing of any substance about.

    That you can’t write a sentence that makes sense does really make me think about the education system and that you have such a perspective on school life too makes me ponder about it. As does the fact that despite this you are obviously literate – maybe the drive for 100% reaching level 2 NCEA is a red herring too?

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  32. dime (8,778 comments) says:

    Oh I am sorry kiwigunner. I was unaware that on a blog I had to write in a manner that is palatable to you. After all, you are the target audience.

    I have also met many teachers over the years. Firstly, as a student and then as an adult I have had relationships with several. I have actually dates twelve teachers in the last 15 years.

    As a student in the late 80s through until the early 90’s I obviously gained some insight. A huge percentage were bitter people with a few sociopaths thrown in. I believe most started out with ideals and burnt out. They didn’t seem to leave the profession, they just went through life miserable. Then of course you had the blokes who didn’t want to grow up and went on to become PE teachers.

    I am not sure where I stated that teachers do not have the right to earn a living. I am not sure where I have advocated that teachers in state schools take a pay cut either.

    I believe the easiest solution for our system to implement performance based pay, as National have started to do. I also believe in charter schools.

    The left are negative by nature and focus on charter schools that have failed overseas. I agree, there will be some teething problems and some failures but they will be remedied or the schools will be closed. I also believe charter schools will be a god send for many kids who are currently struggling. I am not a huge fan of bringing race into an argument but I am hoping this will have some good outcomes for Maori and Polynesian kids.

    I don’t have the time to research it now but there have been many stats presented on kiwiblog over the years that show the failure rate amongst Maori and PI students. It is not good reading.

    I also believe the resistance to charter schools is driven purely by the teachers unions fear of losing power. I honestly can’t see what else the issue would be.

    On one hand we are told that we need zones, that smart kids should be thrown in with the not so smart. Even if that impacts on the smart kids ability to achieve. Apparently that is ok as it suits an ideology. But then we hear that charter schools may impact the learning of some children who are already failing and it’s the end of the world. There is no consistency in the argument and that is because the argument has no merit.

    My final point is this. Charter schools are not compulsory. It is up to the parents as to where they send their kids. Once again this goes against left wing ideology, choice is wrong and dangerous.

    And FYI kiwigunner, Dime was in the top class all through school. I did school cert a year early etc I have a degree. I run a successful business. It just turns out that I’m usually busy between firing off blog comments and you don’t seem to speed with blog etiquette.

    Now back to my normal blog style… go fuck yourself and you owe me 2 minutes of my life for making me type properly.

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  33. kiwigunner (184 comments) says:

    So school worked for you. A word of advice – Kiwiblog is not the place to get your statistics – well not if you want statistics that have any veracity or if you want to function past broad unsubstantiated generalisations. But I guess you know that and simply enjoy the game of being argumentative.

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  34. dime (8,778 comments) says:

    So, you dismiss an entire blog?

    Yes, kiwiblog swings to the right but DPF is honest and usually right with his information.

    Just out of interest, do you know how many kids are leaving school unable to read and write adequately?

    i also forgot to add this to my long ass post. even if schools were the best in the world, would they be perfect? could they improve? like all organisations the answer is yes. if the govt chooses to fund options then more power to them. its a great thing.

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  35. kiwigunner (184 comments) says:

    Dismiss Kiwiblog? Yes mostly because the owner is not routinely balanced – does that make him dishonest?. Probably not but truthful – no. This post is a case in point. The facts from the report referred to are carefully chosen to meet a narrative that is not supported by the report in total. If you simply take it as gospel you will be misled. It is a trend of this govt that opinion beats fact and this is not how change should be driven.

    No of kids, not many. But it also depends on what you mean by that. When the govt talks about 20% of children leaving school illiterate this is clearly incorrect. In my day to day life I know none. But I think of large schools Rangitoto College, Epsom Girls, Mt Albert Grammer, Kerikeri High, Auckland Grammer etc which I think on inquiry would likely have none. To get anywhere near 20% across the country would mean some schools having everyone leave illiterate which would be news for sure. We certainly don’t have 20% of schools with any sort of intervention and even then not all children in them would be failing.

    No one said schools should not improve – everything should, but the question is, and you propose, that Charter Schools are the answer. The post clearly, but incorrectly, supports this claim. My comments have been that there is no evidence to support that Charter Schools are any answer and that what would be better is to be focused on the current already well performing system rather than a failed one from a country whose education system is worse than ours. This being the case the govt funding them is not a good thing at all but actually a bloody waste of time and scarce resources.

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  36. Bill Courtney (107 comments) says:

    The comments by David Farrar and other charter school supporters miss the point about this particular study, which has been criticised by both sides of the “school choice” debate. See a mainstream media piece here by Stephanie Simon of Reuters:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/25/us-education-charters-idUSBRE95O04U20130625

    You will note the quote from Michael Petrilli, of the conservative think tank Thomas B Fordham Institute:
    “I’m not giving up yet on the idea that charters will outperform district schools in the long run…It’s a mixed bag” for now, though”
    Hardly stunning praise, I would have thought!

    The key point to understand with this, and many other charter v public schools studies, is the impact of what statisticians call “survivorship bias”. When a number of the original schools (in this case) or students (in the case of individual charter schools) drop out of the data during the course of the time period being analysed, the proportion of those who succeed or graduate (or whatever is being measured) should take account of the drop outs, or the numbers are skewed upwards unfairly, i.e. in favour of the survivors.

    What happened to the kids who were enrolled in the charter schools that failed and were closed down? They may have been struggling and receiving a poor education but this negative result does enter the final calculation.

    The same effect is often seen with individual charter schools. Here is a link to a piece by former Teach For America mentor, Gary Rubenstein, that debunks the “miracle” story of the Harlem Village Academy charter school, a darling of the media in New York, another David Farrar favoured city:

    http://garyrubinstein.teachforus.org/2012/06/12/it-takes-a-village/

    The Washington Post has written previously about the high rate of expulsion of students from charter schools compared to traditional public schools.

    The KIPP chain has also been criticised in the past for what appear to be very high attrition rates, especially for African American male students.

    No doubt the propaganda campaign from Farrar et al will continue. But anyone thinking charter schools, or the concept of “school choice” in general, makes a material difference is sadly mistaken. The evidence is inconclusive, at best, and that’s after decades – not years – of trying.

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  37. dime (8,778 comments) says:

    “Dismiss Kiwiblog? Yes mostly because the owner is not routinely balanced – does that make him dishonest?.”

    so you obviously dismiss everything from the standard and every press release from a union

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  38. dime (8,778 comments) says:

    “No one said schools should not improve – everything should, but the question is, and you propose, that Charter Schools are the answer. The post clearly, but incorrectly, supports this claim. My comments have been that there is no evidence to support that Charter Schools are any answer and that what would be better is to be focused on the current already well performing system rather than a failed one from a country whose education system is worse than ours. This being the case the govt funding them is not a good thing at all but actually a bloody waste of time and scarce resources.”

    There is a demand for charter schools. If there is no demand they will fail. So youre saying parents shouldnt be able to have that choice? teachers and bureaucrats know best?

    Are private schools failing too? should they be gone?

    Scarce resources? says who?

    google who much we pump into education.

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  39. dime (8,778 comments) says:

    “The evidence is inconclusive, at best, and that’s after decades – not years – of trying.”

    so we should stop trying?

    how about this, how about we aim to duplicate the successful charter schools and not the duds

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  40. Rightandleft (574 comments) says:

    We already do duplicate the successful charter schools because since 1989 all NZ schools have had the flexibility to do just that. Albany Senior, Ormiston, Alfriston and others use a very 21st Century open-plan classroom, student-directed learning method that is totally new and works well for some students. Auckland Grammar, Westlake, Mt Albert Grammar all stick with the tried and true tough discipline, Cambridge Exams old school methods and they get great results. Takapuna Grammar offers IB classes, many schools use Te Kotahitanga or PB4L programme teaching methods. Students from West and South Auckland go to schools in central Auckland and the North Shore. Parents can send their kids to single-sex, co-ed, Catholic, Protestant or secular schools. We already have way more school choice than America. In fact the American experience has been that charters with closer state oversight and regulations have done better than those simply left to do what they like. We’re now being asked to try a far more extreme version of charters. These offer no new solutions, only pitfalls.

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  41. doggone7 (493 comments) says:

    dime

    “…but there have been many stats presented on kiwiblog over the years that show the failure rate amongst Maori and PI students. It is not good reading…”

    The failure rate amongst those in the lowest socio-economic groups does not make good reading. Stats are not presented based on that though, ethnicity is mentioned.

    The success rate amongst those from the highest socio-economic groups make excellent reading.

    The determinants of education success and failure as propounded by Professor Robin Alexander Cambridge University are more pertinent than those of kiwiblog. Of course politicians in NZ such as Hekia Parata like to quote the importance of data and research then ignore anything they disagree with. When you’re in power your truth becomes the only truth.

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  42. wat dabney (3,464 comments) says:

    Foaming at the mouth because teachers are unionised does not take away the fact that the NZ system is a good one in general terms

    Perhaps private schools can achieve similar results for less money, which would equally be a win? (teachers aren’t unionised for nothing you know: they effectively hold children hostage during pay negotiations in order to win above-market-rate agreements for themselves.)

    Hell, if children leave school with lower levels of achievement but without having had their heads filled with statist clap-trap it would be a huge win (for them.)

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  43. dime (8,778 comments) says:

    rightandleft – well if we have so much choice already and the schools cater to everyone, charter schools will fail. simple.

    i suspect their are people who are over state schools and will try charter schools.

    i think the left underestimate the power of charity too. example – Dime currently donates to a lot of schools. as an importer there is always something that i can give for a raffle or whatever. i dont give real money though. however, if there is a successful charter school out west where i grew up? i will happily write a cheque, every year.

    whether the left like it or not, there is a huge amount of people out there who dont trust state schools and unions.

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  44. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Another study – there have not been that many.

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  45. kiwigunner (184 comments) says:

    Dime why don’t you write a cheque to your local school now? I can assure you they will use the money for the good of the children and not donate it to the union.

    Look at yourself when you lack trust – or go visit your local school and see what they are doing. I’ll bet you get a different perspective.

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  46. Mark (1,302 comments) says:

    wat dabney (2,787) Says:
    July 3rd, 2013 at 5:52 pm
    “Foaming at the mouth because teachers are unionised does not take away the fact that the NZ system is a good one in general terms”

    Perhaps private schools can achieve similar results for less money, which would equally be a win? (teachers aren’t unionised for nothing you know: they effectively hold children hostage during pay negotiations in order to win above-market-rate agreements for themselves.)

    Hell, if children leave school with lower levels of achievement but without having had their heads filled with statist clap-trap it would be a huge win (for them.)

    Wat, is this why the government is required to prop the private school model up. As for state school teachers being over paid where is the evidence that they get paid more than their private school counterparts. So they are overpaid on what basis. One suspects you like the idea that state school teachers are over paid rather than it having any substantive basis. A schools decile rating seems to have a greater bearing on performance than whether it is private or not. But lets keep kicking the crap out of teachers as they make an easy target.

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  47. Psycho Milt (1,984 comments) says:

    “Study finds that schools that aren’t like ours outperform schools that are even less like ours.”

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  48. kiwigunner (184 comments) says:

    Even the govts own expert says this about Charter Schools

    Charter schools

    Overseas evidence suggests the Government shouldn’t bother with its plans for charter – or “partnership” – schools, Mr Schleicher says.

    Mrs Parata will confirm the operators of the first schools, which will be publicly funded but privately operated, by next month, with up to five set to open next year.

    “In New Zealand, once you account for social background, there is no difference between public and private schools. If you do that around the world, there is no difference between charter and public schools,” Mr Schleicher says.

    “In fact, there is typically more variability in quality in charter schools … I really don’t think charter schools are a magic bullet … the bottom line is, there isn’t much measurable advantage.”

    Ironically the balance of his ideas are already known and work being undertaken across schools in NZ – short of National Standards nothing in his comments that any Kiwi teacher would disagree with.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10896522

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