The need to restore balance in Christchurch

July 1st, 2013 at 11:00 am by David Farrar

A reader e-mails:

Not in the Chrustchurch Plan

By 1879, serving the population (13.500) of were 60 grocer’s shops. 41 hotels, 14 churchs, 6 banks, five chemist shops, six breweries.30 priests and ministers of religion, 24 barristers and solicitors, 18 architects, 18 doctors and 5 dentists.

Christchurch needs to restore the balance between breweries/hotels and the general population and definitly the balance between breweries/hotels and the legal profession

A sentiment many would agree with!

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38 Responses to “The need to restore balance in Christchurch”

  1. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    So we need balance now ..really..A funny choice of words.

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  2. wikiriwhis business (4,016 comments) says:

    I take it in those days the Reserve Bank was not interfering and the tax rate was low or non existent and progress was still being made. A true Libertarian economy of prosperity

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  3. Redbaiter (8,923 comments) says:

    “A true Libertarian economy of prosperity”

    A completely false claim. The Libertarian Party was completely unknown and its ideas not even a sparkle in Ayn Rand’s eyes at that time. If there was any small government/ individual liberty mood abroad at that time it came from Conservative sentiment.

    Conservatism has always been the antidote to tyranny because that its what its principles are designed to prevent.

    It is a slow drift to Progressivism and a drift away from Conservatism that has brought us to the derelict state we are in today.

    Libertarianism is just a trendy relatively modern byplay, a misunderstanding by the obsessive Objectivist Rand who coming from Russia knew nothing of the West’s historical regard for liberty and individual freedom.

    Reverence for liberty was always to be found in the basic tenets of Conservatism. Libertarianism is just a diversion, a silly hand wringing exercise in self indulgence. It never existed in Christchurch in 1879 and it is only an ephemeral semi-religious cult today.

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  4. Matt (227 comments) says:

    That’s an awfully nuanced view of conservatism, Red. I always thought conservatism was the disposition to preserve or restore what is established and traditional and to limit change. My bad, I guess.

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  5. wikiriwhis business (4,016 comments) says:

    “A completely false claim. The Libertarian Party was completely unknown and its ideas not even a sparkle in Ayn Rand’s eyes at that time. ”

    She probably got her ideas from the pre monopolised Federal Reserve era. It’s the spirit of the time that is relevant

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  6. Redbaiter (8,923 comments) says:

    Matt- true in a way, but reverence for individual liberty was kind of the default position of government in those days as there was no Progressive influence. So retaining what was established and traditional meant retaining regard for liberty. The root cause of the erosion of liberty is progressive politics.

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  7. Sidey (250 comments) says:

    The obvious problem with conservatism is what do you take as the benchmark/starting point from which no change/progression should occur?

    If you’re a young person do you want to preserve the current state of affairs which a certain contributor here rallies against non-stop? You can’t seriously want a past that you didn’t live through and have little actual real knowledge of. If you’re older do you hanker for the society we had when you were younger, and if so, how far back do you go? To when you were 50,40,30,20? Perhaps conservatives could all get together and decide the exact period in our evolution that they wish to return to, so we can start ditching all advances made since that date. I suggest 15 April 1953 as a random suggestion.

    But of course there can be no such agreement. There are any number of variations on any political theory, and an infinite number of opinions within those factions once you introduce the human element. So, give it a label and the rest of us can just get on with the business of living.

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  8. Redbaiter (8,923 comments) says:

    Mark Levin on Conservatism-

    “Like the Founders, the Conservative also recognizes in society a harmony of interests, as Adam Smith put it, and rules of cooperation that have developed through generations of human experience and collective reasoning that promote the better of the individual and society. This is characterized as ordered liberty, the social contract, or the civil society.

    What are the conditions of this civil society?

    In the civil society, the individual is recognized and accepted as more than an abstract statistic or faceless member of some group; rather, he is a unique, spiritual being with a soul and a conscience. He is free to discover his own potential and pursue his own legitimate interests, tempered, however, by a moral order that has its foundation in faith and guides his life and all human life through the prudent exercise of judgment. As such, the individual in the civil society strives, albeit imperfectly, to be virtuous — that is, restrained, ethical, and honorable. He rejects the relativism that blurs the lines between good and bad, right and wrong, just and unjust, and means and ends.

    In the civil society, the individual has a duty to respect the unalienable rights of others and the values, customs, and traditions, tried and tested over time and passed from one generation to the next, that establish society’s cultural identity. He is responsible for attending to his own well-being and that of his family. And he has a duty as a citizen to contribute voluntarily to the welfare of his community through good works.

    In the civil society, private property and liberty are inseparable. The individual’s right to live freely and safely and pursue happiness includes the right to acquire and possess property, which represents the fruits of his own intellectual and/or physical labor. As the individual’s time on earth is finite, so, too, is his labor. The illegitimate denial or diminution of his private property enslaves him to another and denies him his liberty.

    In the civil society, a rule of law, which is just, known, and predictable, and applied equally albeit imperfectly, provides the governing framework for and restraints on the polity, thereby nurturing the civil society and serving as a check against the arbitrary use and, hence, abuse, of power.

    For the Conservative, the civil society has as its highest purpose its preservation and improvement.”

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  9. Viking2 (11,471 comments) says:

    well its stuffed now.
    No more building because some unknown outfit that charges ghuge amounts for a stamp of approval has cancelled the councils rights to issue building consents.

    The Christchurch City Council has been stripped of its accreditation to issue building consents.

    In a huge blow to the organisation International Accreditation New Zealand (IANZ) has followed through on its threat to revoke the council’s accreditation, council planning committee chairwoman Cr Sue Wells confirmed this morning.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/8862409/Chch-council-banned-from-issuing-consents

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  10. Matt (227 comments) says:

    “no Progressive influence”??? Red, there has been progressive influence in politics since at least the Magna Carta. Shall we go back to the 13th century?

    I’m interested in your assertion that conservatism embraces freedom. Do these freedoms extend to our own bodies, or our own relationships? Do they include an expectation of privacy? How about freedom of movement? Or as citizens can we only expect freedom in some areas but not others?

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  11. Redbaiter (8,923 comments) says:

    Oh here we go, cheering for drug abuse and aids transmission, the favourite topics of the Libertarians, showing just what a crippled concept of freedom they suffer from, and why they will alway be a complete waste of time and energy.

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  12. nasska (11,525 comments) says:

    Matt

    On planet Redbaiter freedom is limited to anything that he approves of.

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  13. Urban Redneck (234 comments) says:

    The libertarians, first and foremost should aim for the dismantlement of the welfare state so that everyone out there is in a position whereby they have to take 100% ownership of their actions – financially and in law.

    Because as it stands now, I have to pay (thru taxation) when some drug atrophied deadbeat (e.g Phil Ure) refuses to hold down a job, or I’m paying for some drug users hospitalization or incarceration and treatment when he has an Antonie Dixon moment, or syphilis and HIV treatment for promiscuous homosexuals, or like those citizens of sovereign states like the USA paying the welfare, health and education services for people who cross the border and flood into the country illegally like some pinata’s exploded.

    So-called libertarians need to address the welfare state before wasting too much time on these other talisman irrelevancies.

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  14. Sidey (250 comments) says:

    Redbaiter Says:
    Oh here we go, cheering for drug abuse and aids transmission, the favourite topics of the Libertarians, showing just what a crippled concept of freedom they suffer from, and why they will alway be a complete waste of time and energy.

    There are two things I just can’t shake. The first is an image of Redbaiter hunched over a rough-hewn desk in a log cabin deep in the woods, feverishly slaving away at his manifesto while picking insects out of his scraggly beard.

    The second, even more disturbing thought, is that somewhere amongst the vitriol and standards so high that Dick Fosbury would need a ramp, is the occasional kernel of truth. But as I don’t subscribe to his/her views 100%, I guess I’m just a filthy commie prog like the other 4.4m-odd of us NZers. I look forward to having to wear the suitable identification our eventual overlord will require us to wear, so we don’t get confused with the rightful rulers of Planet Red.

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  15. Matt (227 comments) says:

    Quite agree, scrap the welfare state. Sooner the better. With freedom ought to come responsibility.

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  16. Redbaiter (8,923 comments) says:

    The trouble with most of the NZ prog political faction is their limited political perspective. They’ve only ever been exposed to a left wing version of politics, (and its history) so they therefore know very little concerning what other political choices are out there. Hence we have the drooling ignorance of Sidey and his preference for attacking the man, as demonstrated by a couple of hundred pointless words on Redbaiter and nothing on the issue of Conservatism. He just does not know what to say, because Conservatism in its true sense is a concept completely foreign to him.

    I invite him to reflect on probably the most important part of Levin’s attempt to explain Conservatism above-

    “the individual in the civil society strives, albeit imperfectly, to be virtuous — that is, restrained, ethical, and honorable. He rejects the relativism that blurs the lines between good and bad, right and wrong, just and unjust, and means and ends.”

    Its why progs are just no good to any free state. They are relativists. Its their life blood and by their very unpredictability and malleability, it makes them so often the enemy of any free man. To espouse the principles of freedom, one must understand the meaning of the word principle. To fight for and retain freedom, one must be brave and steadfast and not flexible and cowardly.

    It is the growth of relativism at the hands of Progressives that has cost us most of our freedoms since the times in Mr. Farrar’s subject post.

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  17. nasska (11,525 comments) says:

    …..“the individual in the civil society strives, albeit imperfectly, to be virtuous — that is, restrained, ethical, and honorable. He rejects the relativism that blurs the lines between good and bad, right and wrong, just and unjust, and means and ends.”….

    ….”one must understand the meaning of the word principle. To fight for and retain freedom, one must be brave and steadfast and not flexible and cowardly.”….

    Seldom are the attendees of a church service, never mind the humble followers of any blog, given the opportunity to read such unmitigated horse shit & drivel.

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  18. Redbaiter (8,923 comments) says:

    Well, being a clod hopping bald headed dope smoking Dylan worshiping sister loving gorse farmer from upper Whykickacripple Creek, you’d have the best idea of anyone about horseshit and drivel you sad knuckle dragging prog fuckwit. Anything above that though (like the tenets of Conservatism) would be far beyond your comprehension.

    See- anyone can do pointless derision.

    If you’ve got no serious contribution to the discussion why are you here? I’ll tell you. You’re a narrow minded unintelligent bigoted prog coward who never brings anything but ignorance and intolerance to any discussion, and is full of a burning desire to destroy anyone who does not share his sick depraved and degenerate views.

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  19. nasska (11,525 comments) says:

    Whatever I brought to the discussion would beat some second grade homily from an authoritarian reject stuck in the times of Queen Victoria.

    Adapt & move on……if you still have the ability.

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  20. Sidey (250 comments) says:

    Hence we have the drooling ignorance of Sidey…

    Cheers for the validation Red! I have no inclination to debate the merits or otherwise of your personal version on conservatism. It rates about a 9.5 on my don’t-really-give-a-shitometer.

    And as for having crack at me for playing the man – are you for real? All you’re “famous” for is degenerating into abuse, which completely diminishes any traction you may have been getting. Apart from a small handful of souls brave enough to comment under their real names, you’re just another anonymous person with zero influence to change anyone’s opinion here. I’ve yet to decide if you’re:

    – Just another keyboard warrior troll, posting purely to get reactions then abusing people to get more reaction. A rather sad individual, in other words, but harmless in the bigger scheme of things. Or
    – A genuine nasty piece of work who is truly as hateful of all those who don’t agree with your worldview. But if you are really that vitriolic by nature, it’s unlikely you have been able to restrain yourself and we’d probably know your name if we heard it. You know, one of those whacka-doodles who pop up on the 6pm news every now & then for us all to laugh at.
    -Or, most concerning of all, you’re actually quite a dangerous individual, either to yourself or others. The sort that gets their middle name used when referred to.

    Given that people that damaged are actually quite rare, it’s relatively much more likely that you’re in the first category and can be safely ignored or ridiculed.

    It’s the host’s prerogative to allow your crap to block the drains of his posts, but just because we’re guests doesn’t mean we have to put up with the smell from the back-wash without pointing it out.

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  21. Redbaiter (8,923 comments) says:

    Sidey, yes yes yes, got all that- I’ve heard that rubbish a thousand times from the same old same old bitter twisted leftists who have nothing but hate.

    Anything to add on the subject?

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  22. Sidey (250 comments) says:

    same old same old bitter twisted leftists who have nothing but hate.

    Can’t help yourself can you? You know nothing at all about my political beliefs – unlike your good self I haven’t infested this and other blogs with my innermost thoughts – can’t for a moment think why anyone would be interested… see, some people have an inner handbrake that stops them acting like, well, you. And yet you automatically assume I’m some sort of leftie. I’m not actually, not that would make any difference to you, you’ll just tell me I am anyway.

    So after hearing it a thousand times, you don’t think maybe there’s something to it? Anything at all? Nothing to contemplate about your behaviour? Thought not. Sad.

    And yes, I’m aware this has nothing to do with the post topic. After your first comment the topic just kinda got lost. As it does whenever you rouse from dreaming about storming the ramparts and feel the need to share the love for your fellow man. When you do finally snap, do you think your neighbours will tell the nodding head reporter that “there was always something weird about him, but we just thought he was a harmless nutter, always crapping on about his whacka-doodle vitriolic theories. We just kept clear of him.”

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  23. Redbaiter (8,923 comments) says:

    Yes yes yes, heard all that a 1000 times before from the same old bitter and twisted leftist sources. I know you’re a leftist from the behaviour pattern, namely that you’ve written a thousand words or more now on your opinion of Redbaiter (Yawn) and about twenty on the issue.

    Its what they all do, and as I said, its basically because of their ignorance of other political systems, and an intolerance for any kind of political perspective outside their own. These two factors are crippling handicaps on any occasion where sensible and reasoned debate is required.

    So I ask again, with increasing resignation, do you have anything to say to expand upon your initial views on Conservatism or are you going to leave it at those initial twenty words?

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  24. nasska (11,525 comments) says:

    Okay Reddy….let’s see if we can devise a definition of a Conservative that we can all agree on. I’ll go first….

    “One who believes in “traditional values” but rejects any debate challenging the conservative definition of what said values are. Conservatives claim to value limited government, but are willing to expand government without limit in order to impose their personal morality on all others.”

    (Note the limited use of superfluous adjectives & the brevity.)

    Do you agree or have you a better description?

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  25. Sidey (250 comments) says:

    Thanks for the invite Red, but sorry, no interest in climbing into your sandpit – I get easily bored with regurgitated dogma played on an endless loop. Blind adherence, one zealot who believes he’s right and everyone else is wrong, wants to control the rest of us… man, starting to sound like a commie there!

    Tell you what though, feel free to call this a hard-fought victory for the side of, well, whatever your side is. I’m content enjoying life wearing whatever label/identifying mark you might like me to wear. That winning feeling should keep you nice & warm as you dream of mowing down the invading hoards of commies/progs/lefties/everyone else, manifesto safely hidden away lest a bitter and twisted leftie prog stumble upon your plan for extermination of anyone with a freely held opinion that doesn’t suit the agenda. Mmm remind me again what the difference is between you & a commie, apart from deciding who should the be one to rule us all?

    To be fair, you are just baiting us all, you’re probably a mild-mannered accountant with a nice brown suit and have voted labour all your life. I really should know better than to fall into your trap!

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  26. Redbaiter (8,923 comments) says:

    “I really should know better than to fall into your trap!”

    Yes but that is it you see. Here am I hoping that you will actually indulge in some reasoned debate on the issue of Conservatism so that I can break down some of the ignorance and correct some of the hundreds of misconceptions you have, and others lurking can thereby get a better understanding for themselves, but I never really got the chance.

    No matter how hard I tried to get you to discuss it, you’ve come back each time with a lengthy worthless childlike and boring analysis of Redbaiter. And then you have the utter gall to complain that I play the man and not the ball.

    Well, I ask you, what else have you given me? If there was any trap here at all, you prepared it and fell into it all of your own accord. Another well known leftist trait.

    Out of real and the most kind pity, I’m ready to educate you, to fill in the vast gaps that obviously exist in your political knowledge, but all you want to do is vent your spleen at Redbaiter. So boring. Wouldn’t you be much better off using this time in receiving some information that might enable you to upgrade your political knowedge to adult status?

    Think about it for a while. I’m sure you’ll reconsider and come back begging for the enlightenment we both know you’re so desperately (deep down inside) yearning for.

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  27. Redbaiter (8,923 comments) says:

    Nasska, Levin’s definition of Conservatism is fine for me. You probably couldn’t comprehend it given it was longer than 20 words, but have another read of it (take your time) and tell me where you differ. I’ll skip over your infantile attempt (6:16) for now thanks.

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  28. nasska (11,525 comments) says:

    I tried. :)

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  29. Sidey (250 comments) says:

    I’ve given your kind offer to step down from the Mount long enough to “re-educate” me in the wise way of your politics considerable thought Red, but sadly I’ll have to decline. You see, I really don’t give a shit. Truly. Politics is interesting as a spectator sport, but personally I’m too busy living my life to worry about the opinions of an internet nigel-no-friends nobody. And so should you be, quite frankly.

    Whatever the political viewpoint, people like you who are on the extreme, left, right, whatever, are NEVER going to change their viewpoint. So what you want is for me to see the errors of my ways and just agree with you, o’lord & master. Not going to happen – blind subservience is what you claim to fight, yet it’s exactly what you actually want. You’re nothing more than another hypocrite, telling people what to believe. You belong in the Labour party.

    I do however like the way you tend to launch into diatribe and abuse as a first attack, then come across as all reasonable to take the moral high ground. Nice tactic, leave the innocent reader with a good/better impression. How very controlling.

    Do you have to pass an exam to be considered the last word on conservatism, or is it a self-imposed thing? How very noble of you to step back from reality and take the time to offer your re-education services. Sorry Red, think I’ll pass. I’m happy being relatively ignorant as to the intricacies of controlling other people’s lives. Sorry, I mean “freedom so long as it’s Red’s way.”

    So, no need to set aside time for my re-education, that frees up more time to work on that manifesto. The people won’t just control themselves you know! They must be warned!

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  30. Sidey (250 comments) says:

    Good effort Nasska, you got further than I did – at least you tried to play the “let’s re-educate the progs/lefties/commies” game!

    So Red’s entire belief system is based around a definition from one person. That’s a bit sad isn’t it? He’ll look quite the fool if it turn’s out the guy got it wrong! And of course, we don’t even want to contemplate what would be result should someone equally bowing & scraping to someone else’s view, happens to have an even slightly different definition. Crikey! He’d start spinning so fast he’d disappear up his own oriface. If he hasn’t already…

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  31. Redbaiter (8,923 comments) says:

    Gee Sidey, this conversation is such good fun. I so enjoy it when the left bare their crippled psychological state for all to see.

    Let me put you right on one of the main misconceptions you exposed in your latest lengthy attempt to vent your spleen. I do not expect you to agree with me on Conservatism. All I want you to do is know what you are talking about. How can you reject or accept a political philosophy when you don’t have the faintest clue what it represents? All I have ever wanted to do Sidey is drag you from the bottomless depth of your ignorance to the surface of knowledge of an ideology that if I said you had a superficial understanding of I’d be too kind.

    I understand commies like you Sidey. I know exactly what sorry little narrow minded ignorant bigots you always are, and how you come from university with your minds crippled as only the dull and stupid can allow, and how you then come on forums like this and spill your illogical crap and then rant incoherently when you’re called on it. I know the damage your psyche has undergone. I know that if you haven’t dragged yourself from that intellectual mire by the time you’re thirty you’re probably lost for all time.

    I know all of this Sidey, and that’s why I never really have anything but the deepest pity for such as you and your sad crippled state of mind.

    On the other hand you Sidey know nothing of Conservatism, or Conservatives. Your poor little sponge brain, soaked with the words of extreme left lecturers, has never come into contact with such a concept ever before. So in order to disguise your abject ignorance you write here screeds of personal analysis of Redbaiter, which only makes me pity you more, for as soon as I see it I think to myself, wow how sad, there goes another socialist sausage, straight off the assembly line and all that stinking ignorance squeezed into the same old thin and easily punctured skin.

    So leave if you must Sidey, but remember please how I pity you and how I yearn to help you. Come back any time if you reconsider, for I’ll always be here waiting to redeem your poor lost socialist soul.

    Don’t be bashful. Anytime you need help, just reach out. If you’re not over thirty, I may even be able to make a good Tory of you one day.

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  32. nasska (11,525 comments) says:

    Sidey

    Ages back I read a report of an interview between Kim Hill & Alamein Kopu.

    Hill kept asking her what her problem was, to which Kopu kept responding “People need to listen to me.” Asked what she would say if they did listen to her, she kept replying, “I’d say they need to listen to me.”

    Baity has the same problem.

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  33. Sidey (250 comments) says:

    While I haven’t yet had time to look up your big words Red, I can point out one of the major flaws in your treatise. You seem to base an awful lot on the influences that university lecturers impart on youthful and eager minds. I do agree that might be onto something there actually. The only problem with this in relation to your dissection of my very being, is that I’ve never set foot in a lecture hall. I didn’t go to university.

    So, now that we’ve established that you’ve based your thoeoy on erroneous data, I can safely ignore anything you have say. Clearly you’re just a typical reactionary, set in his way with preconceptions based on your own worldview. Enjoy your own company.

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  34. Redbaiter (8,923 comments) says:

    Ok Sidey, well that’s OK too. Lets say I accept your claim that you are an uneducated retard and we go on from there.

    The point with university indoctrination Sidey is that it only happens to the stupid and dull. Students who are smart can see through the bigotry of their left wing lecturers and treat their deceit with the contempt it deserves. Others, who have a void where their brain should be, are sucked into it and have their skull filled to the brim with the worst left wing rubbish imaginable. Helen Klark for example.

    There is something worse than an indoctrinated university graduate Sidey, and that’s a self taught left winger. This is tantamount to obsessive self abuse by a retard. Immersing yourself in prog rubbish is just as damaging as whacking off 100 times a day to pictures of Madonna or as I suspect is more likely in your case, Ricky Martin.

    So I accept that your knowledge deficiencies are the result of being a self made idiot rather than as a result of attending Auckland University or the like. Doesn’t change the pity I hold for you, and the offer of help still stands. Just reach out whenever you feel that sad old commie envy and hate getting the better of you. I’m ever ready to save you.

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  35. nasska (11,525 comments) says:

    That’s the way it rolls Sidey. It would have been nice if his father had settled for a blow job but such is life. :)

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  36. Sidey (250 comments) says:

    Thank you for being so understanding of my deficiencies as a human being Red. It’s much appreciated. Humbling, almost. I shall continue in my self-funded retirement in my late 40’s, secure in the knowledge that I know nothing.

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  37. Redbaiter (8,923 comments) says:

    OK, somehow I knew that you’d be over thirty.

    Its too late you dumbarsed prog loser. Don’t ever bother me with any of your sorry shit ever again. You’re just gonna end up like most cowardly progs, sitting in splendid isolation and wondering why NZ society has turned to shit without understanding its all your own work.

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  38. Sidey (250 comments) says:

    Oh that burns, nice one Red. A right zinger. You’re a joke, full of false assumptions. Like that I still live in NZ. You know nothing yet hold yourself out that you know everything. Just a sad, bile-filled joke.

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