Vance on Norman

July 29th, 2013 at 12:00 pm by David Farrar

writes:

Recently, the Business and Parliament Trust hosted a bit of a do for politicians and big hitters. The charity is aimed at helping MPs and the business world understand each other better. The seminar was held under Chatham House rules but some tantalising observations leaked out from participants.

Prime Minister John Key spoke, and was well received, followed by Labour leader David Shearer.  Norman, according to reports, was hostile and aggressive.

So much so, that some in the audience were reluctant to ask questions, for fear of being attacked. 

Ironic that Norman compared John Key to Muldoon.

Judging from chatter around Wellington, the antagonism was not an isolated episode.

A representative from an oil company tells the story of how Norman turned on his heel and walked off without a word, after they attempted to introduce themselves.

He has recently been making attempts to get around businesses, but to mixed reaction.

Within the agricultural community, there is genuine apprehension the Greens will be part of any future coalition. Industry players say that outside of environmental concerns, there has been little attempt by  the party to understand its issues.

There is frustration that the Greens overlook, or are unaware, about the sector’s innovative strides. Ideological stubbornness is standing in the way of any constructive relationship with those that earn the country a living, they say.

The Greens are entirely ideological – it is their strength and their weakness. It helps them as a political party, as they are very consistent with what they say. However Government by its nature is about flexibility, and a degree of pragmatism, and the Greens in Government could well prove incendiary, and fall apart as the Alliance did.

But the view that Norman and his party are hostile to business, is a shaping up to be a bit of a conundrum for Labour. Should they be in a position to form a government next year, they must find a role to satisfy both his acumen and ambition. That he would become finance minister is quixotic, and there would be noses out of joint (including Jones’) if he was handed the economic development portfolio. Giving him energy would be an interesting move – but would likely end in a ugly clash with oil and gas companies.

Won’t Deputy PM be enough?

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46 Responses to “Vance on Norman”

  1. tvb (4,430 comments) says:

    The basic problem is the Labour Party do not want to give the Greens a substantive portfolio on anything.

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  2. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    God help NZ if comrade Norman, an avowed communist, gets anywhere near a position of power.
    He will ruin the country. Guaranteed.

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  3. Michael (910 comments) says:

    If Norman and the Greens are not willing to consider issues thoroughly before developing policy then they will find himself in serious trouble when they form part of a Government. Note that Helen Clark was not willing to put them ahead of NZ First or United Future when forming a Government despite the Greens being more aligned with Labour’s philosophy.

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  4. Simon (727 comments) says:

    NZ’s overseas creditors wont tolerate these crack pots running the show. NZ credit rating will go down & business risk will increase meaning borrowers will have to pay a higher interest rates.

    When its Labour’s turn they better rein in these little retards because NZ’s creditors aint gonna take the hit.

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  5. Colville (2,272 comments) says:

    People in business know Norman is a two faced liar and just dont want anything to do with him or his whackjob policies.
    Norman knows the business leaders hate him and he in turn hates them for actually creating something useful and making something of their lives, something Norman is incapable of.
    He is a politician that has achieved zero.

    He cant even be trusted to keep hold a flag :-)

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  6. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  7. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  8. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    “A representative from an oil company tells the story of how Norman turned on his heel and walked off without a word, after they attempted to introduce themselves.”

    Good, I’m glad that happened. It might teach some of these gutless crawling politically correct oil companies execs just who they’re dealing with, and that surrender to Marxism is just not an option.

    (Just to illustrate how bad it is, the industry’s primary front organisation employs Deborah Mahuta Coyle in a senior position for chrissakes)

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  9. Urban Redneck (234 comments) says:

    Business people (rightly) see the Greens as fanatical zealots, who possess a strong anti-capitalistic sentiment and a lofty disdain for the grubby practicalities of running a business enterprise – large or small.

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  10. Cunningham (844 comments) says:

    Norman is a dangerous man. Him and his looney colleagues could cause a lot of problems for this country. What is Labour thinking aligning themselves so closely with this communist based party? It’s a gift for National.

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  11. adze (2,126 comments) says:

    Ross69 don’t be disingenuous. It is common knowledge that Norman compared Key to Muldoon earlier this year.

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  12. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Here’s my prediction FWIW…any government involving Norman would split asunder within months as his true colour – red to the core – became more widely known and more and more difficult for the larger party to paper over.

    Russell: You may just be right on this one…the marxists won’t be bought off nearly as easily as the Maori have been…I have it on good authority that well budgets now include a contingency of 15% of whatever might be produced to cover off “iwi interests”…apparently the taniwha don’t mind being drilled into if they get a suitable koha first…or at least the promise of one…

    adze: Ross knows exactly where the reference to Muldoon came from…don’t indulge the bastard…

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  13. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    Greens purposely attack capitalism instead of corporatism. World of difference

    corporatism usurps the competition of capitalism with the help of the state. This is how Mussolini defined fascism

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  14. greenjacket (466 comments) says:

    A good article, and consistent with what our business found when we tried to talk to the Greens – they just did not want to listen to us. They didn’t know about how various regulations affects us, and they didn’t care. They really have an attitude of business = evil capitalist enemy.

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  15. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    “well budgets now include a contingency of 15% of whatever might be produced to cover off “iwi interests””

    Yes, this is the corruption and blackmail as carried out by the oil companies and race based groups and it is endorsed by both Labour and National, while Transparency International, that piss weak front for Progressivism, continues to report NZ as corruption free.

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  16. queenstfarmer (782 comments) says:

    I have it on good authority that well budgets now include a contingency of 15% of whatever might be produced to cover off “iwi interests”

    I am acquainted with a director of large construction firm, and he says that one of the first things they now do when starting on a public roading/heavy works project is to figure out how to avoid inconvenient taniwhas etc from derailing the project.

    This involves large amounts of “koha”, “consultation fees”, etc with the right people who (assuming they have been sufficiently “consulted”) will magically ensure that the project avoids troubling the taniwha.

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  17. jaba (2,143 comments) says:

    well .. if the PM is a male, Shearer whomever, then surely the Gweens will want a female deputy = Turei

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  18. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    jaba – what difference will that make?

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  19. duggledog (1,559 comments) says:

    I think a Labour Greens clusterf*** might be just what this country needs for the long term. They wouldn’t last long, and once my fellow countrymen see everything go through the roof from petrol to mortgages it might teach a few people a lesson. I’ll be able to ride it out. Sadly the idealistic fools who would vote for the left (read: ‘extreme left’) will be the ones that pay.

    Queen St Farmer you are right on the money, but it’s now standard practice across a range of industries including mine. It’s quicker and you just pass the cost on to the end consumer

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  20. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  21. Colville (2,272 comments) says:

    queenstreetfarmer. Spot on.

    Around 10 years ago I sold a block of land (that I had gained a subdivision consent for) on the coast that happened to be very close to a Marae. I had agreed in the hearing to the marae having observers to make sure we didnt dig up a grave (and then hide it again). No way do i want to gig up someones Grandma no matter what skin colour she had.
    Young bullish chap that purchased block off me started roading and ignored “locals”. Very soon afterwards evidence of “early habitation” was discovered by “locals” so historic places trust shut down the site. Young chap went broke. True story.

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  22. OTGO (557 comments) says:

    “Recently, the Business and Parliament Trust hosted a bit of a do for politicians and big hitters.”

    and

    “Norman, according to reports, was hostile and aggressive. So much so, that some in the audience were reluctant to ask questions, for fear of being attacked.”

    So, not very big hitters then?

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  23. queenstfarmer (782 comments) says:

    @ross69, that you miss the point is hardly a surprise :-)

    Allow me to enlighten you (I’ll type this slowly, because I know you can’t read fast). Earlier this year, Russell Norman compared John Key to Muldoon. His comparison was widely ridiculed, because:

    (a) it is patently absurb – Key is one of the least Muldoonist PMs; and

    (b) Norman clearly didn’t realise the irony involved in his flawed comparison. Some of his own policies bear more than a passing resemblance to Muldoon’s, and here was Russell Normal engaging in a very Muldoonist personal attack.

    Hence DPF’s observation, that Vance’s report is more evidence of Russell Norman’s personal vindictiveness and hostility, by causing those in the audience to be reluctant to even ask a question, lest they get attacked by Norman for daring to do so.

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  24. queenstfarmer (782 comments) says:

    ^ My apologies to Mr Normal.

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  25. peterwn (3,275 comments) says:

    tvb – Labour is unlikely to give the Greens a significant portfolio. The Greens have no negotiating room. They are hardly likely to cuddle up to National. Their only negotiating lever would be to try and force an early election and then try to blame Labour for this. If Winston had gone with Labour, this could put significant pressure for National to run with Winston to avoid an early election (assuming the numbers support this).

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  26. Monty (978 comments) says:

    Eventually the green Taliban will be in government with Labour. Wile Russell has put on a smart green coloured suit, and speaks well, scratch just a little below the surface and the lunacy of the green Taliban policy programme becomes apparent. Sadly most people and very few journos scratch below the surface.

    Only when the greens have their hand firmly on the levers of power will the inadequacy of their policies become apparent. The fun the right are having now as we watch labour will be nothing compared the the nuclear explosion awaiting when labour and the greens polices start to fuck NZ up and the blame games starts..

    Sadly for the greens to be destroyed they need to come under the scrutiny of being in government. They need to explain to the people why they drove the economy into recession, why unemployment has increased, why investment has decreased, why power prices have gone up, less hospital operations, and why no one still wants to ride their bike to work. The green Labour Party would not last four years. They will self destruct is speculator fashion. Ad the Hon Russel can then fuck off back to Aussie forever his legacy being a totally fucked NZ.

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  27. Ashley Schaeffer (488 comments) says:

    OTGO (370) Says:
    July 29th, 2013 at 1:12 pm
    “Recently, the Business and Parliament Trust hosted a bit of a do for politicians and big hitters.”

    and

    “Norman, according to reports, was hostile and aggressive. So much so, that some in the audience were reluctant to ask questions, for fear of being attacked.”

    So, not very big hitters then?

    I was going to write something similar as the thought had occurred to me as well. Big hitters or delicate flowers? I saw Norman whining about his little lost flag and he ain’t that scary.

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  28. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    OTGO: You cannot make that assumption, and you probably know it. In today’s politically correct times any sensible senior business exec could not tell Norman what a wanker he was…he would just have to sit there and take whatever Norman said in response to some question, no matter how nonsensical or even insulting Norman’s response might be.

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  29. OTGO (557 comments) says:

    Do you know what Chatham House Rules are DG?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_House_Rule

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  30. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Yes, I do…and if the reference to execs not willing to speak was at such a forum, then I stand corrected…in that case, someone should have read the little bastard his pedigree…

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  31. flipper (4,083 comments) says:

    Good lord….
    I read all those useful observations above and concluded that there is really only one person as stupid as wussel red melon – Ross69

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  32. Peter (1,713 comments) says:

    Why aren’t any reporters going after the Greens? It should be the easiest thing in the world to do.

    Too lazy? Party members? What?

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  33. OTGO (557 comments) says:

    They are too busy “reporting” stories of drunk cab customers making racist comments to a Paki taxi driver in Invercargill

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  34. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    Rogernomics came out of Labour.
    What is Normans view on rent-seeking behaviour. Does anyone know? Should you be worried?

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  35. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    Norman is sharp, the difference between him and Shearer is that he expresses the grey of an issue , which gives him credibility. Compare that to Don Brash who rivetts on about land supply and house prices as though that was all there was to it.
    Of course Don Brash would say anything (as his wives found out)!

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  36. burt (8,275 comments) says:

    Comparing Key to Muldoon is ridiculous… Muldoon was a socialist… he nationalised… he regulated … he controlled… he intervened… He was possibly more left than the Labour party are now …. His policies seem pretty much what Labour and the Greens seem to want today…

    But that sort of policy is only bad when it’s done by the blue team – apparently it’s good policy when a red team do it.

    Norman must so soo bloody think if he can’t see his policies are more like Muldoon’s than any other party… He’s a muppet.

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  37. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    @hj,
    Interesting to see how a typical Labour supporter like yourself is able to contrast Shearer and Norman, and side with the communist Luddite over your socialist leader crossing party and loyalty lines.

    I trust you’ll be voting next year to proudly send NZ back to the Middle Ages and economic chaos.

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  38. Bob (497 comments) says:

    They should make Russell Norman minister for foreign affairs so he is out of the country half the time

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  39. Colville (2,272 comments) says:

    Bob.
    The damage done by a coherant Norman able to articulate his twisted views on life would be vast, a drunken incoherent Winston is a far safer bet.

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  40. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    Key is one of the least Muldoonist PMs

    Only a Muldoonist would allow spying on NZers by the GCSB, including spying on the media. We don’t have a problem but Key is creating one. Muldoon would be proud.

    “Labour MP Grant Robertson released figures on the use of urgency since 1999 which showed in its first two years National pushed 17 laws through without allowing public submissions – compared to the four or five each term when Labour was in government”. Muldoon would again be proud.

    National has rushed through legislation preventing carers of disabled family members from taking legal action. Another hint of Muldoon.

    The Government has ignored the Electoral Commission’s MMP recommendations.

    I could go on but it is clear that Key is looking more and more like Muldoon.

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  41. queenstfarmer (782 comments) says:

    @ross69, if those items were a valid basis for determining if someone is “Muldoonist” (and they are not) then pretty much every Govt since Muldoon has been “Muldoonist”! Just look at the last Labour Govt:

    – Use of urgency? Check (not as many numerically, but it’s the scope of the laws not the number)
    – Retrospective law? Check (Electoral finance laws)
    – Ignoring Electoral Commission? Check (numerous repeated breaches despite warnings)
    – Preventing access to courts? Check (Seabed & Foreshore)

    Then again perhaps you regard those as good things, and regard “Muldoonist” as a compliment!

    Either way, you need to wise up.

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  42. duggledog (1,559 comments) says:

    Ross 69, do you still think Sleeping Dogs was real

    ‘We don’t have a problem’ Classic! I approve of spying on NZers. Because quite a few of them have quite a bit to hide, unlike me. If it means Key can get rid of the fat criminal KDC to spend a bit of time in a US jail as well, even better!

    The GCSB bill is designed to smash organised crime. I can’t see any other reason why it’s being pushed through under such urgency. What a great way to walk through another election.

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  43. flipper (4,083 comments) says:

    Ross69…

    In respect of Muldoon, and everything else, you are talking crap.

    You could not recognise shit from clay, if both were in your hands.

    Before you continue pontificating on political matters, get to know the people you talk about.
    You clearly do not know RDM, and meeting him now would require at least an out of body experience, so shut TFU.
    Idiot

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  44. cha (4,036 comments) says:

    No more sherries for flopper…

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  45. RRM (9,933 comments) says:

    A representative from an oil company tells the story of how Norman turned on his heel and walked off without a word, after they attempted to introduce themselves.

    Jesus.

    A child in charge of the Green Party…. :-(

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  46. Shazzadude (529 comments) says:

    I could understand that politically though. Shearer would’ve been politically best spinning on his heel instead of walking into the Skycity corporate box and opening a Steiny, for e.g.

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