10 biggest anti-fracking lies

August 27th, 2013 at 3:00 pm by David Farrar

Phelim McAleer, the producer of FrackNation, details his list of the top 10 lies told about fracking:

  1. Anti- activists are nice people who love debate
  2. Everyone hates fracking
  3. Fracking is brand new and untested (started in 1947)
  4. Fracking makes your water flammable
  5. Fracking contaminates drinking water – one million fracked wells, zero cases
  6. Fracking uses a lot of dangerous chemicals – actually 0.5% only
  7. Fracking causes breast cancer
  8. Fracking uses a ton of water – 5% of that used to water lawns
  9. Fracking should be banned because it causes earthquakes – so do hydro dams and geothermal
  10. Fracking destroys the landscape and disturbs bucolic rural America – generally only for a few days

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58 Responses to “10 biggest anti-fracking lies”

  1. bhudson (4,720 comments) says:

    The protests are a fracking joke

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  2. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/amall/pavillion_independent_experts.html
    An independent scientist has confirmed that fracking has clearly contaminated a drinking water source east of the town of Pavillion, Wyoming, supporting the findings in a draft EPA report published in December.

    This is not only important news for residents of the small town with contaminated water-– but it has national significance as well. While oil and gas corporations enjoy exemptions from critical protective environmental provisions in the Safe Drinking Water Act and Clean Water Act, they have continued to publicly claim there has never been any proof that fracking has contaminated drinking water–despite reports of suspected cases from around the country.

    The reason the oil and gas industry has been able to get away with saying that to date is that there has never been sufficient investigation to determine whether or not fracking is to blame. And industry has paid millions of dollars in legal settlements to Americans across the country, silencing them with nondisclosure agreements so that companies can continue to publicly deny responsibility for problems.

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  3. Redbaiter (6,479 comments) says:

    Just another assault on free enterprise carried out in the same Fabian manner that allows the left to achieve most of their political milestones.

    Although they’re only attacking fracking today, the end objective is the complete shutting down of the entire oil industry.

    And bit by bit by bit they will achieve that, by means of the same gradualism that has brought them so many other political successes.

    We could do a lot to stop this by barring environmental propaganda from the education system. I’m frequently stopped in the street by brainwashed evangelical style students who have no one iota of any real situation, but are firmly convinced that fracking is environmental heresy.

    Where do they develop this mindset? In the socialist indoctrination camps that we call schools. Get environmental religious instruction out of public schools.

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  4. hj (5,692 comments) says:

    “One tends to read the obituary column more attentively as one gets older. That is probably what led me to notice the death of George P. Mitchell, age 94 — that plus the fact that he was from the Texas Gulf Coast (Galveston and Houston), the part of the country where I grew up. The obituary credited Mr. Mitchell, highly successful oil mogul and geologist, with having been the major developer of the technology of “fracking,” and praised him for thereby having guaranteed energy independence and continued economic growth for the U.S.

    Wait a minute, I thought — could this be the same George Mitchell who organized the 1975 Woodlands Conference on Limits to Growth, and did so much to promote serious discussion of that book? Yes it was. How strange! On the one hand he was actively concerned about the likelihood that growth would wreck the planet, and on the other hand he was the major developer of the most growth-pushing and planet-wrecking technology of recent decades!”
    //
    Somehow by the third conference the theme had mutated from “limits and alternatives to growth” to “management of sustainable growth.” The leadership passed from Meadows and Meadows to the Aspen Institute and the University of Houston. Instead of challenging business-as-usual, the emphasis shifted to sucking up as usual to business interests. The new, “more balanced” view was that we really must not limit growth, just focus on good growth rather than bad growth. Growth had somehow become “sustainable,” contrary to the main conclusion of The Limits to Growth. The reasoning behind this reversal was kept vague. There was an utter failure of nerve on the part of scientists and especially economists to confront the continuing challenge that George Mitchell and the Meadows had initially set up. Indeed, practically no economists attended the conference. The very idea of limiting growth was too big a pill for economists, politicians, and most scientists to swallow. They coughed it up and silently spit it into their napkin at the conference banquet.

    http://dalynews.org/learn/blog/

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  5. panda (13 comments) says:

    have listen to this

    http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4275

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  6. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/d0cf6618525a9efb85257359003fb69d/4af0024955d936ef85257adb0058aa29!OpenDocument
    WASHINGTON – The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) today provided an update on its ongoing national study currently underway to better understand any potential impacts of hydraulic fracturing on drinking water resources. Results of the study, which Congress requested EPA to complete, are expected to be released in a draft for public and peer review in 2014.

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  7. queenstfarmer (696 comments) says:

    @Griff: the “study” that you claim “confirms” fracking contamination is actually an unsolicited “review” of an EPA draft report, which the EPA itself has abandoned! The EPA also says:

    [EPA] does not plan to finalize or seek peer review of its draft Pavillion groundwater report released in December, 2011. Nor does the agency plan to rely upon the conclusions in the draft report.

    So far from “confirming” anything, the grand evidence you put forward is an unsolicited, unreviewed review, by an author of unknown agenda and motive, of another unfinished, abandoned non-peer-reviewed study that even the party who commissioned it (the EPA) says they will not rely on!

    I wonder what sort of agenda you must have.

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  8. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    Redbaiter
    Just to point out I am KB most environmentally aware commentator.
    And also probably the least formally educated.
    This would tend to support the idea that not being exposed to the regimented thinking imposed buy our school system is more likely to prompt free thinking and an objective view of the actual world we live in.
    The post pointing out epa and other worries over water contamination took 30seconds to glean from the internet.
    Information and how to process it is no longer solely contained within the edu system. All Knowledge is at you finger tips the thing we should teach is critical thinking skills in the evaluation of the quality and source of information presented.

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  9. lyndon (330 comments) says:

    Based on purely internal evidence: I can’t help noticing he basically says 4 of his 10 big lies are actually true (but unimportant). Does this reflect the quality of his thinking on the other points?

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  10. queenstfarmer (696 comments) says:

    @Griff: “The post pointing out epa and other worries over water contamination took 30seconds to glean from the internet”

    Ah, well that probably explains why your so-called “study” has no credibility :-)

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  11. David Garrett (5,134 comments) says:

    For once I am happy to totally agree with Russell Redbaiter…the opposition to fraccing (the “k” in the word is a new innovation by the Greenies) is reality a thinly disguised opposition to the entire oil exploration and production industry…and they get away with it because most people haven’t got a clue about what fraccing entails, and are willing to uncritically believe whatever they are told by some wispy bearded Green Party activist.

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  12. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    queenstfarmer (488) Says: ……….
    http://www2.epa.gov/region8/pavillion
    June 20, 2013
    EPA has announced that it will be supporting the State of Wyoming in its further investigation of drinking water quality in the rural area east of Pavillion, Wyoming. While EPA stands behind its work and data, the agency recognizes the State of Wyoming’s commitment to further investigation and efforts to provide clean water and does not plan to finalize or seek peer review of its draft Pavillion groundwater report released in December 2011.

    The sampling data obtained throughout EPA’s groundwater investigation will be considered in Wyoming’s further investigation, and EPA will have the opportunity to provide input to the State of Wyoming and recommend third-party experts for the State’s consideration. The State intends to conclude its investigation and release a final report by September 30, 2014.

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  13. All_on_Red (941 comments) says:

    Griff is just gullible. He believes everything he reads on the internet.Loves calling everyone “wingnuts” but its all self projection as he sees conspiracies everywhere. He seems especially afraid of Christian scientists.

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  14. All_on_Red (941 comments) says:

    “Just to point out I am KB most environmentally aware commentator.”
    Lol

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  15. queenstfarmer (696 comments) says:

    @Griff: That is from the same link that points out that your “study” is actually about an abandoned, unfinished investigation that even the EPA won’t rely on.

    All you have quoted now is that the EPA is doing “further investigation”. How does that “confirm” anything?

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  16. queenstfarmer (696 comments) says:

    @All_on_Red: he must be gullible.

    As an observer, it is interesting watching the far-left Greens (excuse the tautology) desperately try to discredit “fracking”, as if its some radical new dangerous thing. They’ve been doing it for decades!

    The problem with fracking, of course, is that it has completely embarrased the Greens and their politically-motivated predictions/aspirations of impending energy collapse. Boy has that teed them off.

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  17. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    My acknowledgement of the world scientific consensus on global warming and level of knowledge around AGW means I can no longer support the continuation of the oil industry to any degree.

    It also means that I will not vote for a right wing party in this country until they take the warnings of science seriously.

    This has been a personal conundrum I have finally settled after considerable thought.

    I was a member of ACT since the party was incorporated. The denial within the ACT party is such that I am glad that they are rapidly heading into oblivion.

    [DPF: Are you aware fracking is primarily responsible for the massive drop in emissions in the US, so if you are worried about AGW, you should support fracking]

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  18. Thrash Cardiom (298 comments) says:

    Pumping water underground at geothermal power plants can lead to dangerous earthquakes even in regions not prone to tremors, according to scientists. They say that quake risk should be factored into decisions about where to site geothermal plants and other drilling rigs where water is pumped underground – for example in shale gas fracking.

    http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/jul/11/fracking-water-injection-major-earthquakes

    Link to the abstract:

    http://www.sciencemag.org/content/341/6142/1225942.abstract

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  19. All_on_Red (941 comments) says:

    QstFarmer
    Indeed, discovering trillions of cubic feet of gas which will provide energy for several hundred years and be low emissions is a real killer of their “end is nigh” mantra.
    Watch how Brussels is fighting exploration tooth and nail in the EU. Poor Europeans they don’t have a hope.
    What chance the EU survives as a Union if the people start revolting over energy costs and the eurocrats still ban fraccing

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  20. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    Queen street retard

    The comment I loaded is from the epa and points out your misdirection.

    They have not abandoned the data or the study they just handed it intact to the state to finish publishing

    It amazes me that a fuckwit like you can post the link you gave then expect others to believe your obvious misdirection.

    As to all in red
    Have you actually looked into the satellite information you post yet?
    Your last comment on it was the two different satellite series use different satellites and the problem one is only used by rss
    Idiot they use the same satellites the fact that rss and uhf get different results from the same machines tell a little of the story of unreliability in using the microwave sensing system to attempt to resolve earths temperature from space.
    Very different in reality from your “the satellite record is more accurate than simple thermometers”
    Satellite measurement are getting more accurate as they also gets closer to the actual temperatures recorded on the land based systems by thermometers.

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  21. queenstfarmer (696 comments) says:

    @Griff: “I can no longer support the continuation of the oil industry to any degree”

    Oh I love it when people make ludicrous statements like that. Not to any degree? So how are you posting this to the internet then? Is your computer made of wood? No it’s made of PLASTIC which comes from oil. Ever drive (or get driven) anywhere? Ever fly anywhere? Ever buy food that get delivered by a truck? Ever buy clothes or shoes that get shipped from overseas?

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  22. Redbaiter (6,479 comments) says:

    Grief- “Just to point out I am KB most environmentally aware uninformed egocentric self infatuated propaganda sucking drone commentator.”

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  23. Ross12 (927 comments) says:

    Thrash Cardiom
    Has there been an increase in earthquakes in Taranaki over the last 25 years , because that is how long they have fracking up there?

    Even the EPA in the USA has come out and said they they have no issues with it.

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  24. queenstfarmer (696 comments) says:

    @Griff: “They have not abandoned the data or the study they just handed it intact to the state to finish publishing”

    The EPA has abandoned the study – it’s in your own quote! Do you not even read your own quotes??

    … the agency recognizes the State of Wyoming’s commitment to further investigation and efforts to provide clean water and does not plan to finalize or seek peer review of its draft Pavillion groundwater report released in December 2011.

    Yet you accuse others of misdirection…

    They have retained the samples, for future study. I trust you understand the difference between a sample and a study?

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  25. ross69 (3,637 comments) says:

    The biggest lie:

    Fracking will benefit consumers.

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  26. Peter (1,468 comments) says:

    @Griff:

    And also probably the least formally educated.

    Yes, it kinda shows….

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  27. PaulL (5,775 comments) says:

    @ross69: natural gas prices in the USA at a low, which reduces heating and cooking costs for consumers. Manufacturing moving back onshore in the US due to low energy costs. These things don’t benefit consumers? Guess your definition and mine are different.

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  28. unaha-closp (1,033 comments) says:

    Griff,

    My acknowledgement of the world scientific consensus on global warming and level of knowledge around AGW means I can no longer support the continuation of the oil industry to any degree.

    It also means that I will not vote for a right wing party in this country until they take the warnings of science seriously.

    Ironic, I had a similar pathway to the exact opposite conclusion.

    The left wing emission trading schemes and green agenda adopted by the EU has resulted in a net increase in their carbon footprints. Whilst right wing denialist influenced policies of the USA has been matched by a reduction.

    Even a dead set indoctrinated, denialist, do nothing, nil response creates better environmental policy than the environmental policy of any left-wing populist ever.

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  29. queenstfarmer (696 comments) says:

    @Ross69: wrong, as usual.

    Fracking has already massively benefitted consumers in the US. Look at this study from Yale (not an incomplete, abandoned, disowned “study” like Griff cites; google it for more extracts):

    Using the economic tools of traditional cost benefit analysis, we demonstrate that for one given year, 2010, the consumer surplus from shale gas is in excess of $100 billion to the US economy.

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  30. muggins (2,901 comments) says:

    During the past 60 years the oil and gas industry has conducted fracture stimulations in over one million wells worldwide.
    The initial steps are the same as for any conventional well. A hole is drilled straight down using fresh-water-based fluid , which cools the drill bit,carries the rock cuttings back to the surface , and stabilizes the wall of the well bore.
    Once the hole extends below the deepest fresh water aquifer, the drill pipe is removed and replaced with steel pipe, called surface casing. Next, cement is pumped down the casing. When it reaches the bottom , it is pumped down and then back up between the casing and the bore hole wall, creating an impermeable additional protective barrier between the well bore and any fresh-water sources.

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  31. Simon (612 comments) says:

    “Just to point out I am KB most environmentally aware commentator.”

    “I can no longer support the continuation of the oil industry to any degree”

    Yep. And he calls others fuckwits.

    Doubtful if Griff is even slightly aware of the environment he lives in.

    Either Griff grows all his own food or he’s a fool.

    Gonna go for fool on this one as shut ins cant physically grow their own food or enough food to match their consumption requirements.

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  32. Thrash Cardiom (298 comments) says:

    Has there been an increase in earthquakes in Taranaki over the last 25 years , because that is how long they have fracking up there?

    It’s the old “It hasn’t happened here yet so it won’t ever happen” argument.

    I make no comment on Taranaki. I think its worth taking notice of the study given NZ’s propensity for earthquakes.

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  33. Ross12 (927 comments) says:

    Thrash Cardiom

    I take it you are aware of the interim report from the Commissioner for the Environment who also found no issue.

    “It’s the old “It hasn’t happened here yet so it won’t ever happen” argument. ”
    I’d say to that , that you are in the camp that says ” we shouldn’t make any progress on anything because we don’t know will happen , if we do something ” or put another way just plain anti progress.

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  34. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Griff tries to sell us the line that he is driven by the science, not ideology, with regard to AGW. Yet he then attacks fracking, which is responsible for a huge reduction in greenhouse gases. That position flies in the face of the science.

    Give it up Griffy, your cover is blown and it is very clear others can see through it. You are opposed to modern industrial society. No one is asking you to change your ideas, they are asking you to be honest about your motives.

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  35. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    They have retained the samples, for future study. I trust you understand the difference between a sample and a study?

    Not according to the information contained in your link they have handed the study conclusions and all to the local state authority.

    Gonna go for fool on this one as shut ins cant physically grow their own food or enough food to match their consumption requirements.

    I dont grow lots of food at home because the solid land content of my present personal living arrangement =0
    However my meats grown on the family farm block. Free for minimal effort from my home environment is unlimited fresh fish yum yum -protein sorted. The fresh veg and fruit I eat mostly come from my own efforts friends or customers its not hard to acquire bountiful free fruit and veg when people pay you to develop and maintain their gardens. Freezing the seasonal surplus is green as as I live off grid and Not connected to copper any way.
    carbs have to be paid for because I can not be arsed growing spuds etc to much work to bother. All this is without making much effort its just the way I live and have done for years.

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  36. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Griff, how environmentally friendly would it be if all the other 1.5 million Auckland people moved into the harbour, each with their own boat and power plant ?

    You are a dreamer with a very narrow view of the world.

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  37. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    The reason the oil and gas industry has been able to get away with saying that to date is that there has never been sufficient investigation to determine whether or not fracking is to blame.

    But Griff goes onto blame them anyway !

    “get away with” what ? He claims there is been no investigation into the facts, so what informs Griff’s views, if not the facts ? This from a guy who bullshits us that he listens to science and evidence and that is why he is a AGW zealot.

    There have been numerous investigations and Griff knows it. He just does not like the conclusion that fracking is safe. He is so desperate to hate BIG OIL and the fictional “Carbon Industry” he will ignore all evidence that contradicts his ideology.

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  38. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    power plant ?
    Solar and wind are not power plants kea they are free power from the local environment.
    I will tell all my neighbors that we should all move to land and live like you poor land stuck saps eh the laughter will be heard from miles away.

    There is no dream in my living situation its a reality shared by a surprising number of us.
    We call ourselfs river rats and there are clusters of river rats around most ports and creeks in the country.
    The best thing is I dont go on holiday somewhere I go on holiday at home it just moves to were I want it to be.
    A few years ago I lived in the same home but it was located at nandi beach fiji Every plane brought another load of chicks to hit up wanna come for a cruise? Barrier island is good to live at as well friendly locals the free fish includes crays and muscles and there is untold pot around for free as well. Whangaroa is my all time favorite place to stay home at the fishing is incredible and the shell fish untouched huge cockles that make the best seafood pasta yet.

    :lol: you sad fucks and your constrained conventional lives.

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  39. flipper (3,270 comments) says:

    So, Lies, Lies, Lies, damn Lies, and the ignorant everlasting serial liar speaks, and folks with brains unaffected by drugs are expected to believe its meanderings………

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  40. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Solar and wind are not power plants kea

    Griff, so why do you hold them up as alternative means of power production in other conversations ? They are very much power plants, it is only the means of production that differ, not the end product.

    I admire guys who live like you, but all 4 million of us can not do it at once, and if we did, it would be far from environmentally friendly. I am not pissing on your lifestyle choices, I am simply challenging some of the false assumptions and rubbish you come up with.

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  41. David Garrett (5,134 comments) says:

    Griff: Most interesting that you live the lifestyle of Scott Watson, now, alas, serving time as a guest of her Majesty, a long way from the ocean…Given your purity, you will of course have no auxilliary motor on your yacht? And if you require rescuing at any time, you will doubtless decline the services of the outboard motor powered coastguard?

    I do admire a man who lives unswervingly according to his principles…

    Still, it appears you do actually BELIEVE the complete crap you write about fraccing, which distinguishes you from most of your greenie fellows…

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  42. adze (1,695 comments) says:

    @David Garrett you shouldn’t mock Griff too much. They did after all make a movie about his exploits. ;)

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114898/

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  43. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    :lol: blue and white ketch DG like the one that was talked about in the case. Mines a Tahitian not a Fijian http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/tq/278832485.jpg Not mine but looks very similar.
    with a 353 detriot diesel 2.5l 4 valve 2/ .
    Any one who sails something like mine in crowded harbors and inlets solo must have an auxiliary. I am not a purest I just ran out of water to play in with little power boats. Once you have been 80km of the west coast or gisbourn in a tinny chasing marlin the challenge of the horizon hooks you so went sailing because you can go farther.
    As to dads navy we all hope that our arses are not caught out. When you need help a man admits it and gets on with life.

    No I dont have an issue with fracking I do have an issue with oil industry propaganda.

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  44. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Griff, If I win lotto I will buy a huge launch with a couple of turbo diesel v16′s in it, then park up next to you all night with the engines idling. Or maybe a coal powered steam boat with a whilstle on it :)

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  45. ChrisM (91 comments) says:

    Does this remind you of a prolific if uneducated blogger here?

    Patrick Moore; “But after six years as one of five directors of Greenpeace International, I observed that none of my fellow directors had any formal science education. They were either political activists or environmental entrepreneurs. Ultimately, a trend toward abandoning scientific objectivity in favor of political agendas forced me to leave Greenpeace in 1986.”

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  46. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    :lol: Chris the man. big record drought plus big record flood = normal conditions. Chris says they cancel out :lol: Fire fighting has not changed since the twenty’s says Chris planes choppers monsoon buckets and radios they dont make any difference :lol:.

    Remember the number of scientific bodies that reject AGW =0 Number of wingnuts that admit this to them self’s also =0

    Cognitive dissonance is what happens if to much reality infringes on a wing nuts fantasy world.

    Wat has transited to blaming me for his resultant uncomfortable feelings.

    Right now is past that stage he is almost finding acceptance palatable. How will you hold up with time wingnut? will you successfully keep reality at bay long enough ?

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  47. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Remember the number of scientific AGW activist bodies that reject AGW =0

    Griff, it is news to no one that the people funded on the basis of AGW support it. It is their job and they are well paid to do it. And we all know what happens to anyone that does not tow the company line…

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  48. Redbaiter (6,479 comments) says:

    Hitler had his Hitler Youth. Mao Tse-tung had his Red Guards. Mussolini had his Avanguardisti. Lenin and his Soviet successors had the Komsomol. Fidel and Raul Castro have their Young Communist League.

    Every totalitarian regime has its youth group to program the minds and steel the hearts of their future stormtroopers.

    The US Democrats have the Bill Clinton launched AmeriCorps, which is now a body of 5 million volunteers, all funded by taxpayer dollars, and on top of running costs, spending around $500 million giving grants to “communitarian” environmental pressure groups. Millions more flows out through the EPA’s Environmental Education Grants program.

    These grants mainly go to fund socialist/ environmental youth groups pushing anti-capitalist propaganda on other youths and students and the community as a whole.

    Don’t be mistaken about the true intent of the youth environmental movement. We’re talking about an army of Van Jones (radical communist and “Green Jobs” Czar who had to resign from Obama administration) clones pushing communist slogans like “environmental justice” and “climate justice.”

    Green Reds are the new Hitler Jugen, the new Komsomol and the new Avanguardisti all rolled into one and are totalitarians three times as dangerous as each of those groups to concepts like individual liberty and freedom.

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  49. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    ……. as I said
    Scientific body’s are all agw activists then kea if that helps the old cog’ dis’.

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  50. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Red that is crazy talk buddy. AGW has nothing to do with politics. Griff said so and these “climate science” article prove it:

    Global Capitalism and Climate Change

    He says the root cause of the climate emergency is capitalism, a global economic system that “systematically exploits human beings and the natural environment”. He concludes we need “a vision of an alternative world system, one based on two cardinal principles – namely social equity and justice and environmental sustainability.”

    http://climateandcapitalism.com/2013/03/05/global-capitalism-and-climate-change/

    A crisis of capitalism and climate-change

    In the first article of a series, Phil Ward examines recent climate-change-induced extreme weather events and the response of the ruling class.

    http://leftunity.org/a-crisis-of-capitalism-and-climate-change/

    Global warming is real, and caused by capitalism
    Socialism needed to save the environment

    http://pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/global-warming-is-real.html

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  51. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    Totalitarians
    Red the only way any of you hair brained political ideals could be implemented in this country is if you took up arms against people like me nasska kea et al.

    You and the few hundred or so outdated zimmer frame welding idiots that follow your politics would be dead before breakfast on the first day.

    Freedom belongs to those who take it.

    You can not take mine back……. ever .

    I would rather die than be forced to live within the confines of your warped morality.

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  52. cha (3,537 comments) says:

    Nurse! – nurse! – he’s up!.

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  53. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Red the only way any of you hair brained political ideals could be implemented in this country is if you took up arms against people like me nasska kea et al.

    Griff, we even have the projectiles sorted for the big prog fuckwit uprising, backed by our godless homo buddies :)

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  54. dad4justice (7,406 comments) says:

    A green red is much like a red tampon. Just ask the hairy armed bush pig activist.

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  55. eszett (2,270 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (4,343) Says:
    August 27th, 2013 at 10:37 pm
    Hitler had his Hitler Youth. Mao Tse-tung had his Red Guards. Mussolini had his Avanguardisti. Lenin and his Soviet successors had the Komsomol. Fidel and Raul Castro have their Young Communist League.

    Every totalitarian regime has its youth group to program the minds and steel the hearts of their future stormtroopers.

    Every political movement (with exception of Grey Power maybe) will have a youth group. Nothing unusual about that really.

    Speaking of which, how’s your youth group doing, Red? The Young Baiters?

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  56. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    “The Young Baiters?”

    Clever :)

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  57. Thrash Cardiom (298 comments) says:

    I’d say to that , that you are in the camp that says ” we shouldn’t make any progress on anything because we don’t know will happen , if we do something ” or put another way just plain anti progress.

    You’d be wrong about that. I’m all for progress. However, I also like due care and attention to potential problems. Fracking is increasingly linked with earthquakes – and not necessarily minor ones either.

    I am aware of the report recently done about fracking in NZ. Didn’t it make comment about the necessity of being careful with the wastewater disposal?

    Another study released this year:

    Microearthquakes (that is, those with magnitudes below 2) are routinely produced as part of the hydraulic fracturing (or “fracking”) process used to stimulate the production of oil, but the process as currently practiced appears to pose a low risk of inducing destructive earthquakes. More than 100,000 wells have been subjected to fracking in recent years, and the largest induced earthquake was magnitude 3.6, which is too small to pose a serious risk. Yet, wastewater disposal by injection into deep wells poses a higher risk, because this practice can induce larger earthquakes. For example, several of the largest earthquakes in the U.S. midcontinent in 2011 and 2012 may have been triggered by nearby disposal wells. The largest of these was a magnitude 5.6 event in central Oklahoma that destroyed 14 homes and injured two people. The mechanism responsible for inducing these events appears to be the well-understood process of weakening a preexisting fault by elevating the fluid pressure. However, only a small fraction of the more than 30,000 wastewater disposal wells appears to be problematic—typically those that dispose of very large volumes of water and/or communicate pressure perturbations directly into basement faults.

    http://www.sciencemag.org/content/341/6142/1225942

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  58. hj (5,692 comments) says:

    Fracking lie No. 11

    [DPF: Are you aware fracking is primarily responsible for the massive drop in emissions in the US, so if you are worried about AGW, you should support fracking]

    “You’ve probably heard that US carbon emissions have been falling. According to President Obama and energy commentators the world over, fracked shale gas has displaced dirty coal, in much the same way that fossil fuels undercut whale oil a century earlier. Out with environmentally unfriendly old technologies and in with cleaner and more efficient new ones. Everyone wins – including the climate, thanks to the fact that gas produces only around half as much CO2 as coal does for each unit of power or heat created.

    On the other hand, you may also have heard that US coal exports have increased as its domestic emissions have fallen. America currently has little in the way of gas export facilities but plenty of capacity for shipping coal to Asia, Europe and elsewhere. Those ports have been busy of late and the ripple effects are being felt far and wide. For instance, UK emissions shot up 4.5% last year, partly due to low coal prices made possible by surging US exports. So could it be that rising US gas production has increased the human contribution to global warming, even as American’s own emissions have fallen?”
    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/aug/05/us-emissions-extraction-fracking

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