A chat on Destiny

August 14th, 2013 at 10:00 am by David Farrar

A very interesting chat at NZ Herald with Peter Lineham who has written a book on . His comments seem very balanced. A few extracts:

The benefits to families are usually that they get huge support for children and (women especially like that) drunken gambling husbands are called to account. It’s a very supportive movement if you are on the inside.

Destiny lives in the Old Testament a lot of the time, Kate. A lot of their language has this flavour. Tamaki is treated like a king. No animal sacrifice, but its give them a great feelingof being a people together like a tribe.

If we must have charter schools, then Destiny would be a great providor. they do a very good job in their college and school, and they have a non-nonsense approach to knowledge. Not a bad start for a not very satisfactory idea!

One of my big concerns with Tamaki is his claim to be an apostle and to speak authoritatively from God!

No, I think more good than harm. No-one is forced to join. Anyone can walk out without restraint. i think it is an entirely dodgy form of Christianity, but people choose to be in it.

As I said above, I appreciate that he is blunt with his criticisms, but also praises the good stuff he sees the church as doing.

Tags: ,

20 Responses to “A chat on Destiny”

  1. kowtow (7,945 comments) says:

    Uh oh! Here we go,this one’s going to attract the usual haters.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. RRM (9,661 comments) says:

    As long as they don’t stage black-shirted intimidating gay hate marches in public, I won’t have a problem with… oh, wait…

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. Craig (21 comments) says:

    People are free to believe whatever they want and the rest of us are free to think it is ridiculous.

    Vote: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    The only reason Destiny cop so much flak is that they are conservative and unapologetic about their beliefs. I say good on them and give them bonus points for sincerity, though I clearly do not believe in god.

    Vote: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. WineOh (604 comments) says:

    Sure they may help keep some folk on the straight & narrow… but any religious organisation that enforces messiah-like treatment of its founder and strong-arms high donations from its followers gets the ‘Cult’ label from me.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. Scott Chris (5,974 comments) says:

    I think it is an entirely dodgy form of Christianity

    Perhaps it’s worth repeating this joke:

    I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said “Stop! don’t do it!” “Why shouldn’t I?” he said. I said, “Well, there’s so much to live for!” He said, “Like what?” I said, “Well…are you religious or atheist?” He said, “Religious.” I said, “Me too! Are you christian or another religion?” He said, “Christian.” I said, “Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?” He said, “Protestant.” I said, “Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?” He said, “Baptist!” I said,”Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?” He said, “Baptist church of god!” I said, “Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?” He said,”Reformed Baptist church of god!” I said, “Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?” He said, “Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!” I said, “Die, heretic scum”, and pushed him off.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. Nigel Kearney (917 comments) says:

    This sounds right to me as far as them running a charter school. There was plenty of things wrong with the 19th century, but the approach to education was not one of them.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    The left especially hate anyone who is not afraid of them.

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    BTW I have yet to hear any reasons from the state apparatchiks overseeing the process, as to why Destiny were refused a licence for a charter school.

    There may or may not be a good reason but this secrecy is intolerable.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. backster (2,123 comments) says:

    I was disappointed they were not selected for charter school. I thought they would have a great chance of success. I was working in the Waikato during the early days of the Mormon Church establishment at Temple View. The mainly maori graduates from that establishment were high quality people. I think Destiny and probably John Tamihere could turn out worthwhile citizens of similar ilk.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. scrubone (3,082 comments) says:

    It’s the direction, rather than position that concerns me.

    This whole “apostle” thing seems to have escaped the attention of people. People mock him as pope, but there’s been hundreds of popes and pope equivalents (head of the Anglican church, Orthodox etc). There were only 12 apostles.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. scrubone (3,082 comments) says:

    http://halfdone.wordpress.com/2010/04/22/what-brian-tamaki-should-do/

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    This sounds right to me as far as them running a charter school. There was plenty of things wrong with the 19th century, but the approach to education was not one of them.”

    The 19th century was the time of the Industrial Revolution and the over turning of slavery, so very enlightened.

    Also massive European colonialism globally. Exactly around the same time in India, America, Australia, New Zealand. Which I’ve never thought coincidence. And the English only became interested in NZ cause the French were here!

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Destiny church has just as much legitimacy as any other religious group and no one has any right to single them out and infringe on their religious freedoms. I suspect that some of the more established religions are envious that these new upstarts have such a devoted following and are working so effectively in changing peoples lives. Even as an atheist, I would rather see young folk joining Destiny Church than the Mongrel Mob. They have this following because they are seen as more relevant than the established churches, with their congregations largely made up of elderly, and their focus on ancient rites.

    Others single them out because Destiny have not tried to shoe-horn liberal secular views into their teachings, in the way many other churches have. I may not agree with religion generally, but they have my respect.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. LiberalismIsASin (288 comments) says:

    I’m not a big fan of Destiny’s style of ministry but they are my brothers in Christ, and I have more in common with them than any of the political parties. I was very impressed with their march against sexual depravity been promoted as normal in this country and fully supported it.

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. bringbackdemocracy (416 comments) says:

    Interesting that he points to links between Destiny and the Maori party. Perhaps a similar relationship to the one that exists between Labour and the Ratana movement.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. mavxp (494 comments) says:

    Yes, they have social cohesion down very well, which can change peoples lives and make them more fulfilling. Religion can be good like that.

    But religions are problematic when it comes to education simply because “truth” gets thrown under a bus when it conflicts with their pre-determined religious dogma. Always has, always will.

    This means they will inculcate belief in witchcraft, demons, angels, heaven and hell, gods and miracles – all manner of things on the basis of absolutely no evidence at all, and cast distrust in the only reliable method to determine the truth about the world we live in – and that is the scientific method. It also promotes trust in someone believed to have “special knowledge” of what God wants for their lives, which gives that person immense power over you. This is dangerous.

    We need people in society to be scientifically literate, critical thinkers resistant to being manipulated by hucksters and frauds, if we are to make rational good decisions in how we live and solve problems we face as a society.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. scrubone (3,082 comments) says:

    This means they will inculcate belief in witchcraft, demons, angels, heaven and hell, gods and miracles – all manner of things on the basis of absolutely no evidence at all, and cast distrust in the only reliable method to determine the truth about the world we live in – and that is the scientific method.

    Except of course for things like History and philosophy.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    mavxp, of course I agree with you entirely. But teaching those things does not distinguish Destiny from other religious groups that run schools. What does distinguish them is the fact they – effectively- push a conservative social agenda. They make no secret of that fact and one would assume parents signing up their kids would approve of that approach.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    “…..We need people in society to be scientifically literate, critical thinkers resistant to being manipulated by hucksters and frauds, if we are to make rational good decisions in how we live and solve problems we face as a society….”

    Yeah….like pro-abortion doctors! :cool:

    After conception, no new DNA is introduced – so the feotus is it’s own individual human lifeform.

    Individuals have rights.

    Women -and doctors for that matter also- suffer from mental illness if they confuse ‘rights to their bodies’ with ‘re-productive rights’ once conception HAS happened – as they are NOW completely different matters.

    The ‘new human’ has now been produced and ‘re-productive rights’ of the woman are now void.

    The new human now has ‘individual rights to THEIR body’ which trumps a women’s right to her body, as the body of a women is now the NATURAL ENVIROMENT which nutures the life of another human with ‘rights to life’.

    NO doctor in NZ would cut the arms and legs off a women simply because she said ‘it’s my right to do with my body as I see fit.’ – an individuals ‘body rights’ and ‘re-productive rights’ are completely different!

    Tell a doctor that you are pregnant and are going to have the baby and you WILL hear the doctor use language like ‘baby’ and how ‘everything is going naturally as it SHOULD ‘.

    Then go back two weeks later and tell the doctor you are going to abort it, and the language WILL be changed to ‘feotus’ and that you are having a ‘proceedure’.

    So are you anti-abortion MAVXP – or have you been taken in by the huxters and frauds that you so despise? :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.