Silly headline of the year

August 2nd, 2013 at 9:00 am by David Farrar

Radio NZ reports in their headline:

Govt not concerned that Australian moving to NZ

Is there anyone out there who thinks the Government should be concerned that we are having jobs move from Australia to New Zealand?

Darien Fenton MP said the trend is deeply worrying.

Oh dear.

Better someone is unemployed than on a job earning $28,000 a year I guess.

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54 Responses to “Silly headline of the year”

  1. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    Darien Fenton MP said the trend is deeply worrying.

    She might as well have been referring to the polls.

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  2. tom1980 (44 comments) says:

    Yet another example of Labour shafting its own supporters…

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  3. Andrei (2,644 comments) says:

    Is it any wonder that Labour a languishing in the polls?

    The last thing this country needs is for this bunch of clowns to gain the treasury benches

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  4. flipper (4,056 comments) says:

    Yet another Red Radio inspired cock-up for the Shearer/Commissar red melon Norman brigade.

    Oh dear. What a pity. Never mind. :)

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  5. WineOh (630 comments) says:

    This is absurd. If Darian were an Australian Labour party MP then she would have reason to be concerned?

    Isn’t this the same party that decries Kiwis leaving NZ for jobs across the Tasman in lucky country?

    [Lightbulb ding] Or perhaps its worrying for the NZ Labour Party because it means perhaps the current government is doing things right & puts another nail in the coffin of the woeful labour party polling.

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  6. Cunningham (844 comments) says:

    The party who harps on about jobs complaining because of extra jobs. Good grief, what the hell is wrong with these people??? Would they rather people have no job at all? It will take a long time to close the wage gap but it can happen. They think it should happen overnight. A good example of how unfit they are to govern this country.

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  7. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    From Radio NZ’s article:

    ….”But the Council of Trade Unions said an economy created on low paid jobs lowers productivity, which could actually widen the pay gap even further.”….

    It would be difficult to consider that the alternative of languishing on the dole is more productive.

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  8. jcuk (686 comments) says:

    DF’s comment is on the level of Tui advert …. perhaps aiming for an Australian MP’s seat?

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  9. Manolo (13,755 comments) says:

    And yet the government refuses to tackle RNZ, a true den of the Left. Why, why, why?
    It should be sold to the highest bidder.

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  10. Boglio (78 comments) says:

    Darien for Labour Leader!

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  11. SW (240 comments) says:

    What happened to trying to close the wage gap with Australia?

    Are you now pitching that the increasing wage gap with Australia creates a competitive advantage for NZ because Australian companies are seeking to take utilise our cheap labour? Would you cite this as good news if Labour were in government, or is this just spin?

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  12. david (2,557 comments) says:

    That public comment makes it crystal clear why Darien Fenton should be unemployed – bloody oxygen thief.
    The media claim that they are responsible for keeping MPs honest.
    If they were doing what they profess to be there for they would make her a laughing stock throughout the country for holding such an absurd view.
    Instead they report with much solemnity. Tossers

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  13. Black with a Vengeance (1,861 comments) says:

    PHWEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEE

    GRRRRRRRR…

    ATTACK!!!

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  14. expat (4,050 comments) says:

    Blackie, no need for a whistle it is just a retarded headline frontrunning a retarded Labour message

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  15. PaulL (5,981 comments) says:

    @SW, closing the wage gap with Australia is a great idea. The problem is that the government can’t directly cause that. Despite what some on the left believe, it’s not simply a case of raising the minimum wage and we’re all good. All that does is drive jobs offshore.

    In order to increase wages we need to increase productivity (and no, before someone suggests it, the cause and effect doesn’t run the other way – raising wages doesn’t cause a productivity increase, no matter how many times people think it does).

    To increase productivity we need:
    – Better education. Charter schools anyone?
    – More capital investment. Perhaps policies that activity drive capital offshore would be a bad idea?
    – Investment certainty. Perhaps policies that expropriate returns are a bad idea?
    – A flexible and dynamic work force so you can afford to take a chance on starting a company, or you can afford to bid to do a contract in a more efficient way (perhaps with fewer workers). Labour flexibility anyone?
    – An entrepreneurial culture, so that some (even many) of those who today work for a wage are prepared to take a risk on starting their own business, and both improving NZ’s productivity and making some cash for themselves. Maybe we’d need to be a country where running a business was rewarded and respected?
    – Work ethic. For the country to become more productive, individual workers need to become more productive. For individual workers to become more productive there needs to be something in it for them. Anybody noticed what the marginal tax rate is for a family with 2 kids at around the median income? Any reason you’d want to work harder to make a few extra dollars if the govt will take most of it off you? Working for families, destroying NZs productivity.

    In short, just about every policy loved by the left is a destroyer of productivity. But then they’re surprised when we become a low wage economy. FFS, how stupid do you have to be?

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  16. Muzza M (291 comments) says:

    Labour MP’s are so unaccustomed to doing any productive work, they can’t possibly perceive that any other person would want to do so.

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  17. Black with a Vengeance (1,861 comments) says:

    The retarded message being, National has failed to close the wage gap with Australia!

    You guys irritable cos you got parvo off dime or what ?

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  18. alloytoo (542 comments) says:

    Thank goodness Labour problems are mostly imaginary. I’d hate to rely on them for solution to real problems.

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  19. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    @SW
    Do you think wages in Aus will continue to rise against NZ now?

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  20. Fisiani (1,039 comments) says:

    Labour mp upset about huge growth in jobs in nz. Labour exists to support labour. Every comment and vote by labour is to support labour. They tell the unemployed that they will bring jobs houses and growth. National supplies all three so labour mps oppose the progress that might make the poor realise that national is the saviour and not the beast. Labour needs people to believe that the only prospect of betterment lies with Labour. No wonder support for Labour is now just 29 per cent. Labour is losing votes from every group that used to be tribal Labour. South Auckland is steadily turning blue. We are watching a slow realisation that the brighter future is being delivered by John Key as promised. Can National crack 60 in 2014?

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  21. Black with a Vengeance (1,861 comments) says:

    To increase productivity we need:

    -lower the top tax rate
    -increase GST
    -sell off state assets
    -privatise the education sector
    -slash benefits
    -gut the resource management act
    -spy on citizens
    – allow foreigners to game the housing market

    Hows that working for ya…where the bloody jobs at?

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  22. mandk (993 comments) says:

    This simply confirms that the only way Labour can envisage being in power is to generate and maintain hordes of beneficiaries.
    They are utterly dimwitted and completely devoid of effective policies.

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  23. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    BWAV “…where the bloody jobs at?”

    He says on a post about Australian jobs moving to NZ.

    Fuck you’re stupid.

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  24. alloytoo (542 comments) says:

    Sorry BwaV

    Jobs are only for the employable. You don’t quality based on your poor grasp of reality alone.

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  25. Colville (2,268 comments) says:

    To help close the wage gap we need to open up some dirty big holes in the ground and start extracting some mineral wealth.

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  26. Black with a Vengeance (1,861 comments) says:

    You don’t quality based on your poor grasp of reality alone.

    hahaha…is playtime over already? Better get back to English class fool.

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  27. Black with a Vengeance (1,861 comments) says:

    BWAV “…where the bloody jobs at?”

    He says on a post about Australian jobs moving to NZ.

    Fuck you’re stupid.

    WHOOOOSH…

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  28. Black with a Vengeance (1,861 comments) says:

    To help close the wage gap we need to open up some dirty big holes in the ground and start extracting some mineral wealth.

    …and then look the other way over safety standards so they blow the fuck up and kill the expendable workers eh!

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  29. davidp (3,581 comments) says:

    In other strange Labour Party news… I watched parliamentary question time yesterday. Clare Curran was actually concerned that the Government hadn’t consulted with Google, Facebook, and Microsoft before drafting the new Telecommunications Bill. So we have the bizarre position where Labour will call it corruption if the Government talks with film makers who employ thousands of Kiwis, energy companies who employ thousands of Kiwis, or Sky City who employ hundreds of Kiwis and are building a convention center that isn’t costing us anything. But they’ll criticise the Government for not consulting other multinationals and tailoring a law around their demands, even when two of them employ no one (or almost no one?) in NZ.

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  30. Black with a Vengeance (1,861 comments) says:

    a convention center that isn’t costing us anything.

    Not even a social cost ?

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  31. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    where the bloody jobs at?

    Apparently the Aussies are exporting them over here. Did you miss the report in DPF’s post?

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  32. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    Black with a Vengeance, are you a National party operative?

    It’s like if you were a cop, if we ask you you have to tell the truth if you are.

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  33. PaulL (5,981 comments) says:

    @BWAV:

    To increase productivity we need:
    -lower the top tax rate

    That would be one way to encourage capital investment and productivity. Remember my point about marginal tax rates and rewards for investing?

    -increase GST

    The alternative would be to have more taxes on income or capital. Those are more distortionary. Of course, another alternative would be to have lower taxes and reduce the size of govt, but I’m guessing that’s not high on your priority list.

    -sell off state assets

    Replace one set of state assets with another set of state assets that relate to market failure or public goods, instead of just owning commercial entities. Which overall increases productivity (services that the market would deliver anyway move to the private sector, services that otherwise don’t exist are delivered by govt). Fixed it for you.

    -privatise the education sector

    Run a trial of an approach that has worked in other countries to improve the education of the “long tail” who are otherwise being ignored by our one-size-fits-all education system. Provide choice and opportunity, and determine whether that approach might have applicability in NZ. You’d prefer to pretend that we don’t have a problem with the education of some of our children?

    -slash benefits

    Really? I’d like to see that, but not sure that it’s happened. Evidence?

    -gut the resource management act

    Remove the ability for people to object to things that otherwise would increase national productivity and create jobs, where that objection really isn’t serious or relevant and is just delaying tactics by those who’d rather we had no jobs or just didn’t want jobs anywhere near them.

    -spy on citizens

    Not a big fan of this one, but I think you’ll find that it impacts about 20 people a year (or less) and is only possible with a warrant. And the law change doesn’t actually enable the spying – they can do that today – it just allows them to use the GCSB to do the spying instead of doing it themselves. In other words, a productivity improvement.

    – allow foreigners to game the housing market

    Foreigners like Helen Clark? Not sure she’s gaming the housing market, she just owns investment properties and didn’t sell them when she went overseas. Is that what you’re trying to prevent?

    Hows that working for ya…where the bloody jobs at?

    Not so well, I’d rather we took real actions to directly address it, particularly by dealing with the marginal tax rates for those on incomes between a benefit and $80K per annum. But certainly what we have is much better than the policies that Labour has announced so far.

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  34. Black with a Vengeance (1,861 comments) says:

    Not so well, I’d rather we took real actions to directly address it…

    Thanks…me too!

    …and now for a not so silly headline

    Teenagers scared of going hungry

    High school children are increasingly well-behaved, drink and smoke less, drive more carefully, and get into fewer fights.

    But they are finding it harder to get after-school work, and many still suffer from depression, self- harm and poverty, an Auckland University report shows.

    They are also more likely than in previous years to worry about whether their parents can afford to feed them, and to live in overcrowded houses.

    In other areas, little progress had been made in the past 12 years. More than one-third of children reported themselves overweight or obese, and nearly one in four reported “deliberate self- harm” in the past 12 months.

    Theresa Fleming, one of the report’s lead researchers, said one of the most shocking figures was that half of all 13-year-olds worried about their parents paying for the food on the table.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/8993788/Teenagers-scared-of-going-hungry

    That’s a mighty bright future our youth are worried about eh?…but I imagine Key is pretty relaxed about it.

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  35. alloytoo (542 comments) says:

    BwaV

    That’s correct, I occasionally do typos.
    ^
    |
    This is an example of accountability.

    If you learnt accountability you might find gainful employment and not worry about your benefit being slashed.

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  36. PaulL (5,981 comments) says:

    Nice diversion BWAV. But that’s not the topic. Are you going to respond to my assertion that many of the policies of the left directly reduce productivity? Or you’re going to assume that I agree with anything you said? Or it just got too hard to actually hold a conversation and defend a position?

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  37. Weihana (4,537 comments) says:

    PaulL (5,306) Says:
    August 2nd, 2013 at 9:34 am

    – More capital investment. Perhaps policies that activity drive capital offshore would be a bad idea?

    That’s a bit generic. Which policies in particular?

    – Investment certainty.

    Investment certainty? I was under the impression that when you invested money you were taking a risk. :)

    In any case we are ranked number one for investor protection.

    http://www.doingbusiness.org/data/exploretopics/protecting-investors

    Perhaps policies that expropriate returns are a bad idea?

    If they are too onerous sure… but what is too onerous?

    We are ranked 21 in terms of paying tax.

    http://www.doingbusiness.org/data/exploretopics/paying-taxes

    Some of the top countries live off oil which is irrelevant to our situation. Our total tax rate as a percentage of profits is not that much higher than a lot of other countries which are ranked at the top of this index. Norway is ranked above us but with a higher tax rate.

    – A flexible and dynamic work force so you can afford to take a chance on starting a company, or you can afford to bid to do a contract in a more efficient way (perhaps with fewer workers). Labour flexibility anyone?

    New Zealand is ranked number one for starting a business.

    http://www.doingbusiness.org/data/exploretopics/starting-a-business

    – An entrepreneurial culture, so that some (even many) of those who today work for a wage are prepared to take a risk on starting their own business, and both improving NZ’s productivity and making some cash for themselves. Maybe we’d need to be a country where running a business was rewarded and respected?

    http://www.doingbusiness.org/data/exploreeconomies/new-zealand/

    We are ranked number 3 overall for ease of doing business. Who say’s running a business isn’t rewarded or respected?

    – Work ethic. For the country to become more productive, individual workers need to become more productive. For individual workers to become more productive there needs to be something in it for them. Anybody noticed what the marginal tax rate is for a family with 2 kids at around the median income? Any reason you’d want to work harder to make a few extra dollars if the govt will take most of it off you? Working for families, destroying NZs productivity.

    http://www.ird.govt.nz/resources/4/5/45d274804d0d688a8c5abf54fec26cb2/sole-parents-impact-of-wff.pdf

    Some findings:


    – Between June 2004 and June 2008, the percentage of sole parents in paid employment for at least one hour per week increased from 48% to 58%.

    – Around two-thirds of the increased employment rate of sole parents was due to changes in tax credits and social assistance. In June 2007, there were an estimated additional 8,100 sole parents engaged in some paid employment as a result of the policy changes (Figure 1).

    – The growth in sole parents’ employment was more than that experienced by single people without dependent children and by the entire population over this period.

    – The percentage of sole parents working 20 hours or more increased from 36% in June 2004 to 48% in June 2007. Around three-quarters of this increase was due to the policy changes in financial incentives and support.

    – Over the period April 2006 to June 2007 12% of all sole parents moved from not working at all to having some employment

    – Numbers of all DPB recipients fell by 13,500 (12%) from 107,900 at the end of March 2004 to 94,300 at the end of March 2008. Immediately prior to the policy changes, numbers of DPB recipients had been fairly constant year to year. At the end of December 2008 there was an increase, to 98,700 DPB recipients, likely to be a result of the recent economic downturn

    WFF is far from perfect, but these findings don’t seem to reflect your narrative.

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  38. alloytoo (542 comments) says:

    BwaV

    So what are we to be worried about?

    1. That they worry about not having enough to eat.
    2. They consider themselves obese.

    It was refreshing on Breakfast this morning for one of the report’s Authors to say “Yes, Things are getting better.”

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  39. PaulL (5,981 comments) says:

    Weihana, so by your assessment we have no problems with productivity, and we’re actually a high wage economy? (Actually, to some extent that is true if we compare to the world as a whole, however compared to those we like to compare to, particularly Australia, not so true).

    If you think we could or should be doing better, what is your prescription? I presume it doesn’t involve nationalising the power companies and increasing union powers over our workforce?

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  40. Black with a Vengeance (1,861 comments) says:

    Are you going to respond to my assertion that many of the policies of the left directly reduce productivity? Or you’re going to assume that I agree with anything you said? Or it just got too hard to actually hold a conversation and defend a position?

    Yeah Nah…:)

    So what are we to be worried about?

    That kids can’t see a brighter future beyond where the next meal is coming from.

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  41. Weihana (4,537 comments) says:

    PaulL (5,310) Says:
    August 2nd, 2013 at 10:55 am

    Weihana, so by your assessment we have no problems with productivity, and we’re actually a high wage economy? (Actually, to some extent that is true if we compare to the world as a whole, however compared to those we like to compare to, particularly Australia, not so true).

    If you think we could or should be doing better, what is your prescription? I presume it doesn’t involve nationalising the power companies and increasing union powers over our workforce?

    There’s always problems. Productivity could always be better. But given that we are doing pretty well by global standards I don’t think the solutions to those problems are going to be as obvious as “it’s the left’s fault”.

    Some things I would like to see:

    – Means test super
    – Legalize possession, regulate and tax all illicit drugs (and thereby expunge people’s criminal records and release those from prison who are not there for violent offending).
    – Have student loans gain interest at the rate of inflation
    – Move more taxation to consumption
    – Capital gains tax (no exception for family home)
    – Reduce military spending
    – Cut investor category 1 funds requirement to at most 5 million
    – Make it easier for skilled migrants with qualifications in areas of future growth

    I’m not sure any of that will be a magic bullet for the economy though. I think our economic fortunes are largely at the mercy of forces beyond our control. They will not be improved drastically by ever decreasing taxation rates, nor ever increasing government expenditure or regulation. But of course that is no reason to make government and taxation more efficient where possible or to initiate spending where we believe it will provide a real benefit.

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  42. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    That kids can’t see a brighter future beyond where the next meal is coming from.

    Or the next welfare payment.

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  43. PaulL (5,981 comments) says:

    @Weihana, not a bad list, and not incompatible with my list.

    I agree that governments cannot create wealth nor productivity. But they can prevent the creation of wealth and productivity by holding people back. So I do think there is a place for better government policy, in particular for a small country that is a long way from anywhere – it’s not enough to aspire to be about the same as everyone else, as the natural economy of scale means that a consequence would be lower incomes here than in bigger countries.

    In terms of your specifics, some comments:
    – decriminalising drugs, and removing the human waste (and therefore productivity waste) of imprisoning people for victimless crimes. I’m definitely in favour of this. Only question is how many people are really imprisoned for drug offences, and therefore whether this is a high priority issue. But if there was a referendum, I’d vote for legalisation and taxation (i.e. the same as tobacco and alcohol) every time.

    – capital gains tax. I would prefer a wealth tax than a capital gains tax. A capital gains tax imposes costs on those who use their assets productively, whilst those who hold their assets passively (earning a small return) pay little. A direct asset tax would a) be consistent with the view that the wealthy should pay more (note that I’m deliberately creating a distinction between the wealthy and those with high taxable income), and b) encourage people with assets to use them in productive ways.

    – cutting investor category 1 funding. I’m not overly keen on the concept that you can buy citizenship. I fully agree that we should select who can come to NZ, and that we should select people who have a lot to offer. That doesn’t necessarily correlate with having lots of money or having good english skills or a number of the other tests we do. So I’d like to see a visa regime that targets people who have drive and ambition, and also share NZs values (which is kind of hard given that NZs values don’t appear to include drive and ambition). I’m just not sure that your proposed method achieves that.

    – reduce military spending. Not with you on this one. There is a minimum that a country can spend on defence and remain credible. If we’re prepared to spend money on global warming mitigation as an “insurance policy”, then how could we fail to spend money on our military as an “insurance policy”? In short we already spend too little.

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  44. wikiriwhis business (3,996 comments) says:

    Everyone will be moving to Oz big time once the oil field starts producing in SA

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  45. Weihana (4,537 comments) says:

    PaulL (5,314) Says:
    August 2nd, 2013 at 11:54 am

    …it’s not enough to aspire to be about the same as everyone else…

    Fair point.

    …how many people are really imprisoned for drug offences, and therefore whether this is a high priority issue…

    I think the pernicious effects of these laws go far beyond just those in prison.

    I’m not overly keen on the concept that you can buy citizenship

    It doesn’t sound appealing but ultimately I think residence and citizenship have a price tag on it as much as anything else. Money is not a perfect measure but I think overall it constitutes a benefit.

    We put citizenship on a pedestal (as we should) but in reality it’s as cheap as a one night stand. Given that perspective I think someone prepared to invest millions into the local economy is contributing more than your average person.

    There is a minimum that a country can spend on defence and remain credible….

    In short we already spend too little…

    Sweet. Nothing to lose. :)

    Though reducing military spending would probably be the least important on the list.

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  46. Henry64 (83 comments) says:

    More jobs in NZ is good, if they come from OZ, so what? As for the pay differences, that’s no surprises either. There are variences from country to country worldwide.

    For example I lived and worked in Beijing for 2 years from 2006-2008. My salary was 5000RMB to 6500RMB per month (Nett) – about $NZ1000-1300. Now in the NZ context I was on a ‘low’ wage. In the local context I was well paid, up to 5 times the salary of a local and with the cost of live there it was extremely easy to save money and I brought back over 15k of saving with me.

    In the NZ context if I was paid $NZ5000-6500 per month then I’d be a heck of a lot better off too, but at around half that I’m doing ok anyway.

    Jobs = Good.

    No Jobs = Bad

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  47. Paulus (2,626 comments) says:

    Was there not a comment in the ODT that Curren was considering going against Dave Cull for the Dunedin Mayoralty this year, as she has been a failure this parliament and whatever will get nowhere anyway – like Dalziel.

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  48. OneTrack (3,089 comments) says:

    Henry64 – “No Jobs = Bad”

    Unless you are Labour. In that case no jobs is good because, apparently, when people are on the dole or are a beneficiary they all vote Labour. It seems to be the only way that they can think of to get back behind the Treasury benches – talk down the economy and poo-poo any positive changes, such as Australian jobs coming to NZ.

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  49. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    So is the sentiment something along the lines of

    ‘we would be happy to just be Aussie’s Indian call centre rather than close the wage gap and entice talented Kiwis back here’

    As much as it is stupid headline of the year it doesn’t take a genius to do a little reading comprehension.

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  50. PaulL (5,981 comments) says:

    itstricky: no, the sentiment is that closing the wage gap is hard. We’d really like to do that, but there are a bunch of people who oppose the policies that might help with that. In the meantime, having low paid jobs is better than not having jobs, and as we get more people into work we improve our overall economy and create the cashflow and exports (services are exports) to fund some of the things we’d like to do to improve productivity.

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  51. expat (4,050 comments) says:

    itstricky, lets just say no to jobs, oh that’s right labour and the Greens do it all the time.

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  52. SW (240 comments) says:

    Hi PaulL – thanks for your reply earlier! It would be great to post a more detailed reply, but for now…
    1) You say that closing thewage gap with Aus is a great idea – agreed.
    2) You then say a Government can’t directly cause that. But go on to list a number of policies a Government could implement to boost productivity and in doing so increase wages – I think saying ‘directly’ is just using semantics and we agree that Government policy can influence wage growth or lack there of (correct me if I’m wrong).
    3) We may or may not agree on what policies would increase productivity and increase wages, but discussing productivity was not the point of my post!

    My point was simple (and apparently disliked ha!). While the headline might about jobs, the first line of the link DPF makes it clear that the concern is Aus businesses moving here to utilise our cheap labour.

    It highlights how far apart wages are in Aus to NZ. This was something that National constantly attacked the Clark Government for. Now National is Government, and apparently it is a good thing that we have such a big wage gap because it brings us jobs! Is that now National’s position, or is DPF simply spinning (judging by the comments successfully) crap news to attack the opposition?

    To your comment just above – so say “there are a bunch of people who oppose the policies that might help with that”. Perhaps. But those people have not been in charge of the Government for most of recent history. Lab govt (that implemented a rightwing economic agenda – agreed?) 1984-1990; Nat govt 1990-1999; Nat govt 2008-2012.

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  53. SW (240 comments) says:

    Lance: Well we know that NZ has a fair amount of catching up to do.

    To answer your question with a question – if you were an Australian business owner who has decided to shift your business to NZ to utilise cheaper labour, are you confident that things aren’t going to change in a hurry? Would you waste your time and money otherwise?

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  54. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    Wot he said. (SW, that is).

    Only the first few numbskull shoot from the hip commentators who want a cheap self flangalating thrill actually believe this article is about ‘no jobs please’. It’s about Key’s attacks and promises of a wage equality with Aus. DPF deliberately introduces the ‘better than being on the dole’ spin as a ‘oh well we’re an Indian call centre but you should worship his shoes for trying’

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