Trotter on Key

August 16th, 2013 at 9:00 am by David Farrar

writes:

UNDERESTIMATING  is a serious mistake. Helen Clark did it in 2008, and Key knocked her out of the ring. He did the same to John Campbell last night.

When is the Left going to come to terms with the fact that John Key is National’s toughest, smartest and most dangerous leader – ever? Defeating “The Candidate from Central Casting” was never going to be easy, but our consistent failure to grasp the brute reality of Key’s clear superiority – when compared to just about every politician the Opposition can throw at him – is turning his defeat into a near impossibility.

Defeat is far from impossible. In theory a Labour/Greens/NZ First/Maori/Mana combination is within striking distance of governing.

However I do agree that many on the left under-estimate Key constantly. They forget his performance vs Cullen in 2005, Clark in 2008 and Goff in 2011 – each a 30 year veteran of Parliament.

We are, after all, talking about a politician whose popularity seldom dips below 40 percent in the Preferred Prime Minister ratings. We are looking at a National Government which, in 2011 increased its share of the Party Vote to an unprecedented 47.3 percent. And that was three years after it had been elected with an MMP record-breaking 44.9 percent. Why don’t we “get” how extraordinary this guy is? Since when does a prime minister’s (let alone a government’s) honeymoon last five years?! 

Simply because it is not a honeymoon. The actual honeymoon lasted around nine months.

Think about the televised encounter between John Key and John Campbell on last night’s Campbell Live (Wednesday, 14 August 2013) and then consider the Prime Minister’s tactics in the light of the following observations about political debate:

“This is the very first condition which has to be fulfilled in every kind of propaganda: a systematically one-sided attitude towards every problem that has to be dealt with … When they see an uncompromising onslaught against an adversary, the people have at all times taken this as proof that right is on the side of the aggressor; but if the aggressor should go only halfway and fail to push home his success … the people will look upon this as a sign that he is uncertain of the justice of his own cause.”

The source of these observations? Mein Kampf – by Adolf Hitler.

Another politician who was seriously underestimated by his enemies.

Chris often takes the hyperbole a step too far. In this case, it is several steps too far.

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118 Responses to “Trotter on Key”

  1. martinh (1,272 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  2. burt (7,436 comments) says:

    Chris Trotter

    From National’s point of view…. I have seen the enemy and I’m unimpressed.

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  3. Nookin (3,571 comments) says:

    Where has he been caught out lying?

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  4. martybc (5 comments) says:

    Obviously referencing Adolf Hitler was a bit of a stretch – but in general terms, he’s bang on with his comments. You do wonder if the National Party is in the same place as the previous government was at a similar stage in terms of leadership depth – but as long as Key has the energy to keep going, they’re in a good place.

    Key does seem to trip on details, and struggles to hide his contempt a bit (which looks arrogant) – but overall he always seems to get the ‘vibe’ right – and New Zealanders support his vibe.

    A quote from The Castle. “in summing up, it’s the constitution, it’s mabo, it’s justice, it’s law, it’s the vibe and no, that’s it, it’s the vibe…. i rest my case”. And now, I rest my case.

    Anyway – how many snapper did you say I’ll be allowed to keep?

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  5. Roflcopter (467 comments) says:

    At it again Martinh?

    All you hear from the left is “he’s lying…. he’s lying”, but you never ever explain exactly what he’s lied about…. you don’t even post ONE thing he has said that is a lie, you just repeat the same shit over and over.

    Stump up, or fuck off.

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  6. Ashley Schaeffer (535 comments) says:

    Trotter will never ever ever be out-Godwinned on his own blog.

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  7. slightlyrighty (2,098 comments) says:

    I read Trotters column, about how arts students look down on commerce students, and I noted the implication that Labour seems to have more arts students than commerce students.

    Wasn’t Hitler an Arts student?

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  8. wikiriwhis business (4,209 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  9. wikiriwhis business (4,209 comments) says:

    “I read Trotters column, about how arts students look down on commerce students”

    Commerce students rule the world now. We have a good example of that in Wellington right now.

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  10. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    In my limited experience Key is also a man of his word.

    When we were negotiating the confidence and supply agreement between the Nats and ACT in 2008, we wanted them to commit to supporting “three strikes” all the way. They wouldnt do that, and the best we could get after some hard negotiating was a commitment to support it at first reading, and thereafter give “full and fair consideration” or something close to that wording, to arguments in support of the Bill. All the wise pointy heads and journos laughed, and said that they (the Nats) had given themselves an out right there – and if it was the slippery and duplicitous Clark in charge they probably would have been right.

    But at a summit meeting where matters came to a head, Key kept his word and overrode Power, who wanted to define a strike as a conviction for a named offence for which the miscreant got at least three years. That would have totally gutted it, and Power knew it. Key kept his word. Power threw his toys out of the cot, and is no longer in politics. Key will always have my respect.

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  11. labrator (1,851 comments) says:

    At first I thought finally, a lefty giving a compliment about the quality of an opposition MP but really, it can be roughly translated as “Gosh John Key is cunning. Have you noticed how much like Hitler he is though?”

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  12. Nostalgia-NZ (5,322 comments) says:

    Commanding performance by Key, nevertheless he didn’t have to make Campbell look like a flushed, bewildered angry rabbit – Campbell did that voluntarily.

    The Mein Kampf stuff/comparisons are sheer stupidity. Just as it is to ramp up a suggestion the because Campbell is clearly not in Key’s class that gives all the credit to Key.

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  13. dime (10,222 comments) says:

    “about how arts students look down on commerce students”

    thats always been the case. the art students are just superior! as they graduate and get that teaching gig.. or mcdonalds drive through gig.

    the left cant deal with JK for one simple reason – anyone who is slightly to the right of them are IDIOTS! they need to be labeled as idiots at every point. the public need to be told how to think about the right wing guy. why arent they listening? lefties know everything wahhhhh

    so you end up with these elitist shit heads telling the waitakere man how to think and the westie is going “nah, hes a good c*nt”.

    the lefts only hope is to wait it out or field someone who is… like JK!

    the second option seems a bridge too far. not many normal, good blokes join the far left. why would they?

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  14. WineOh (636 comments) says:

    Attempts to draw comparison with NZ government past or present with Nazi Germany and any leader with Adolf Hitler is so ridiculous it is genuinely laughable.

    We have a strong and charismatic leader of the nation, that appears to be a strong steward of the economy, we have weathered the worst of the financial & economic storm that has ravaged so much of the developed world. The political opposition seems so devoid of genuine forward thinking or constructive policy that they just try to throw much at the political leader who consistently polls strongly. In terms of political strategy, the Labour party needs a total rethink.

    Not to give them ideas, but instead of attacking John Key… firstly get your own house in order. Stop attacking the man instead of the message. Then build some credible policy alternatives. Then attack the softer targets of the cabinet that surrounds Key to give the impression of a weak government. You never attack a stronghold at its strongest point. It ain’t rocket science really.

    The thing that really gets me is that the self-righteous Left commentators fail to realise that right-leaning individuals including the public and politicians all have visions for a better New Zealand – more jobs, higher earnings, better standard of living… but they have a different view of how to make it happen. Kiwis rightfully shy away from personality attacks and demonising individuals.

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  15. Dennis Horne (2,403 comments) says:

    In the end we are all dead, as Keynes observed, but politicians go mad. Muldoon went mad and so did Thatcher. Hitler went mad but that was partly P – methamphetamines. And Hitler was clever, make no mistake. He was foolish and wrong to attack the Jews, although most of the present financial crisis is down to Jewish bankers, and he seriously miscalculated Britain’s response to the invasion of Poland, but look at Germany today: rules Europe.

    Of course Hitler was Austrian.

    I think for Trotter to mention Hitler was unwise and insensitive. Key’s mother was a Jewish refugee from Austria. I am a great admirer of Jews. And Germany.

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  16. Brian Griffin (22 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  17. burt (7,436 comments) says:

    Trotter pays homage to his national socialist party leader – the ultimate unionist who believed that if you weren’t with him you were against him… The core foundations of the leftist ideology are well represented by Hitler – no wonder Trotter loves comparing people to the most sincere example of socialism ever seen.

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  18. Cunningham (846 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis business

    “The surveillance society Key is being the architect of is something Hitler, Mussolini, Mao and Stalin could only dream of”

    Your not maybe overstating the issue just slightly???

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  19. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Dime: spot on…particularly your fourth para. I actually mix with a sub species of “Waitakere Man” out here…farm workers, tradesmen, even the odd long term ACC bludger. With very few exceptions, they all think Key is the good thing you describe, and shake their heads at what Labour – “their” party – has become.

    Sorry to bang on about my only claim to fame, but 3S was an excellent example. Waitakere man (and woman) thinks it’s a no brainer. Labour opposed it.

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  20. flipper (4,332 comments) says:

    Now let me see…

    The one and only Commissar red Melon Norman likened J Key to Muldoon. Nay, he said he was “worse than” RDM, did he not?

    Now the whining a’hole Trotter, likens J Key to “The little Tramp” (Charlie Chaplin’s piss take of Adolf).

    And there is the repeated wailing by the idiot left wing that J Key is “lying, he’s lying… Ad Fin …”

    Pathetic. If there is one thing that is clear, it is that the left is ridden with gastro enteritis.

    Hoist with an economic petard planted by “I have spent it all” Cullen, the J Key Government, bumps and burps notwithstanding goes from strength to strength. If they continue to facilitate economic growth, and really deal to profligate Local Government, they may poll more than 50% in 2014. Only the left’s activist mob are Key’s critics.

    Fast forward to 2017 :)

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  21. dime (10,222 comments) says:

    DG – I grew up out west. Half my buddies are westie tradesman. the sort labour would never associate with. they just dont get it. its a good thing :D

    I cant think of anyone in the labour party who would be descibed as a good bastard. shane jones? he sounds like hes talking down to you whenever he speaks.

    maybe the radio live guy, if he could stop being racist. wont happen.

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  22. martinh (1,272 comments) says:

    Roflcopter
    From the herald”
    Mr Key made the statement in response to questions about his fired-up appearance on Campbell Live on Wednesday night. In the course of the interview he said incorrectly that under the bill, the GCSB would not be allowed to look at the content of communications when conducting their cyber-security functions.”

    Dont tell me to fuck off thats just boorish and rude, surely you can come up with something more creative otherwise you sound like this nutter Chris Trotter who pulls out offensive abusive hitler slurs

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  23. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Brian Griffin: Well, at least you make a bullshit argument in an articulate way…Do tell us why being poor or disabled in this current climate would be any more onerous and bleak than under Labour. From where I’m standing, the only really significant welfare change in recent times is no longer allow mothers to loaf at home on the DPB when their children are all at school, and removing the incentive to pop out another one to keep the pay cheque coming.

    You are obviously a dab hand with those link thingies…do add a couple which demonstrate how “the poor and disabled” have been harshly treated under this government.

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  24. flipper (4,332 comments) says:

    David G…
    Ersatz learned, and new, is he not? :)

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  25. wikiriwhis business (4,209 comments) says:

    “Your not maybe overstating the issue just slightly???”

    That’s what they said about Hitler and the final solution. Only a few Jews took the hint and left Germany.

    It’s impossible to start a full blown police state. it needs to be progressed bit by bit as Keynesian economics states

    There’s no way Muldoon could have given us the NZ we have now.

    Muldoon/Key…both bankers/economists. and how they run the country. Snap decisions. snap elections

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  26. scrubone (3,097 comments) says:

    The left make progress by vilifying their opponents. It’s the same the world over.

    Look at the US – outside anything else, you’ve got studies that show a whole chunk of people believe what the Republican party believe, but they’re loath to identify themselves with that party.

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  27. alex Masterley (1,538 comments) says:

    Muldoon was an accountant, not a banker or an economist.

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  28. sparky (235 comments) says:

    Show me where John Key is lying. And I don’t mean assumptions. I have seen many saying he is lying, but it is all in there own mind. Where are the facts.

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  29. Cunningham (846 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis business (1,564)

    “That’s what they said about Hitler and the final solution. Only a few Jews took the hint and left Germany.”

    Good grief are you serious? You think NZ will end up like Nazi Germany? Well I have seen some rediculious statements on this issue but that might just take the cake.

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  30. martinh (1,272 comments) says:

    Sparky
    He said the GCSB is not allowed to look at personal communications.
    Now he says its up to his discretion

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  31. adze (2,130 comments) says:

    People who compare Key to Hitler have no clue about either.

    Incidentally, check the comments in Trotter’s linked blog post in the OP. Barmy – absolutely barmy.

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  32. queenstfarmer (782 comments) says:

    The very first reply to this post proves Trotter’s point :-)

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  33. burt (7,436 comments) says:

    martinh

    The GCSB… you mean to say the head of the spy agency is not totally open and honest and transparent about spy behaviour… Wow… Most countries publish this stuff in detail so everyone knows what the spies are doing …. right ….

    Oh and Clark always told us what was going on … right ….

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  34. martinh (1,272 comments) says:

    Burt dont mention clark yuk
    Glad you agree you can now be spied on, i hope you dont mind geeks from school looking at your family snaps when they want

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  35. Steve (North Shore) (4,537 comments) says:

    Ignore the Troll – he should be working, not running interference on Kiwiblog

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  36. martinh (1,272 comments) says:

    Just asking questions
    A troll is not someone who disagrees with you, unless you are a commie?
    If i was a troll i would of being demerited.
    I just like debating with informed people …..

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  37. flipper (4,332 comments) says:

    Martinh

    Take note. Outed!

    ueenstfarmer (479) Says:

    August 16th, 2013 at 10:04 am
    The very first reply to this post proves Trotter’s point :)

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  38. wikiriwhis business (4,209 comments) says:

    “Muldoon was an accountant, not a banker or an economist.”

    He was president of the World Bank and attended Bretton Woods and could speak and could speak with deep insight about it

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  39. martinh (1,272 comments) says:

    F;ipper
    I dont get what you mean.
    I wouldnt take any points from Trotter, all im saying is that i was lied to in that interview.
    I dont like that, you dont seem to care
    Thats that

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  40. wikiriwhis business (4,209 comments) says:

    “Your not maybe overstating the issue just slightly???”

    NEWS BRIEF: “Teenager denied heart transplant over history of ‘non-compliance’ “, PressTV, August 15, 2013

    “Anthony Stokes, 15, suffers from an enlarged heart and has been given six months to live unless he receives a heart transplant … Anthony is currently not a transplant candidate due to having a history of noncompliance … referring to his ‘low grades at school and brushes with the law’.

    When American authorities refuse life-saving treatment based upon “‘low grades at school and brushes with the law”, we have entered into a medical holocaust, just like Nazi Germany!

    https://bay167.mail.live.com/default.aspx?id=64855#n=1910977958&fid=1&mid=9ae684a3-05ad-11e3-9874-00237de334a4&fv=1

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  41. Paulus (2,712 comments) says:

    I thought that Adolf Hitler was an Austrian, and was a House Painter by trade.

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  42. Ross12 (1,488 comments) says:

    Martinh

    With all your concernc I hope you do not have a Gmail account

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/digital-media/10243612/Google-email-users-should-not-expect-privacy.html

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  43. flipper (4,332 comments) says:

    Oh by the way…..,
    Is that the same Martinh who always is out-bid at house auctions by persons with an oriental ancestry?????
    How is that apartheid housing policy going then martinh?

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  44. martinh (1,272 comments) says:

    Off topic flipper (demerits)

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  45. wikiriwhis business (4,209 comments) says:

    Obviously, no one is aware of the eugenics that were happening in California in the 1930’s

    Eugenics, the social movement claiming to improve the genetic features of human populations through selective breeding and sterilization,[1] based on the idea that it is possible to distinguish between superior and inferior elements of society,[2] played a significant role in the history and culture of the United States prior to its involvement in World War II.[3]

    Eugenics was practised in the United States many years before eugenics programs in Nazi Germany[4] and actually, U.S. programs provided much of the inspiration for the latter.[5][6][7] Stefan Kühl has documented the consensus between Nazi race policies and those of eugenicists in other countries, including the United States, and points out that eugenicists understood Nazi policies and measures as the realization of their goals and demands.[5]

    A hallmark of the Progressive Era of the late 19th and early 20th century, now generally associated with racist and nativist elements (as the movement was to some extent a reaction to a change in emigration from Europe) rather than scientific genetics, eugenics was considered a method of preserving and improving the dominant groups in the population.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States

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  46. martinh (1,272 comments) says:

    Ross
    seems google and Murdoch a two peas in a pod.
    So much for Dont be evil

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  47. dime (10,222 comments) says:

    flipper – yeah the same martin who hates the chinese.

    the same martin who cant afford to upgrade his house in auckland.. but apparently has a holiday house.
    the same martin who lives in auckland but calls other aucklanders “jaffas”.
    the same martin who is full of shit.

    but back on topic. i just hope keys “honeymoon” period lasts another 4 years. Dime will be mortgage free and loving life and the envy taxes the left impose wont hurt as bad.

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  48. william blake (109 comments) says:

    I struggle to compare Key to Hitler.

    Key has openly stated that he isn’t that serious about politics and he will quit when he is voted out. So, for Key, politics is a game
    and more about ego, vanity and business networking, and Hitler was a psychopathic, vegetarian cunt.

    So, as politicians, John Key doesn’t really care about us; whereas Hitler cared about us in the wrong way.

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  49. martinh (1,272 comments) says:

    Why am i full of shit? Dreams of fudge packing dime?
    Im signing off for today, this isnt debate its just childish comments from one eyed zombies

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  50. flipper (4,332 comments) says:

    slightlyrighty (2,289) Says:

    August 16th, 2013 at 9:17 am
    I read Trotters column, about how arts students look down on commerce students, and I noted the implication that Labour seems to have more arts students than commerce students.

    **&***

    Slightly off topic, but my eldest daughter resisted my urgings that she secure a double degree, in Law and Commerce. She bailed out of law and went for a BA (which she got with FC Hons) in French and German.

    Then she looked for a job.
    The most frequent response – “you are OVER qualified”.

    Eventually, after two years being unemployed, she conceded that she a degree in “bugger all”;….so she went into teaching at a private school. She still moans about the salary, even though she is paid mire than PPTA unionists.

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  51. flipper (4,332 comments) says:

    dime (7,032) Says:

    August 16th, 2013 at 10:36 am
    ****

    :) This says it all :)

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  52. burt (7,436 comments) says:

    martinh

    Glad you agree you can now be spied on, i hope you dont mind geeks from school looking at your family snaps when they want

    Yes because that never happened before – no government before this National government ever did spy shit….

    How fucking stupid are you thinking that having heard it’s going on that it must be new…. what rock have you been living under… if you think anything has actually changed you are probably stupid enough to believe socialism might actually work somewhere somehow someday.

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  53. slijmbal (1,236 comments) says:

    Trotter seems to resort to Nazi Germany references in relation to National more and more these days – he did it on the changes around beneficiaries and drug testing.

    A sure sign of no premise for a real argument supporting one’s views when he has to resort to not so subtle personal and emotional attacks.

    He seems to come across more and more as an old school intellectual communist decrying the loss of the ‘good old days’ where ‘brothers in arms’ could fight the good fight against the capitalist fascists.

    Repeat after me … “All capital is theft”, “All capital is theft” …..

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  54. flipper (4,332 comments) says:

    This, a comment in today’s NZ Herald, on their editorial opinion, is typical of the garbage spewed by the left – the mob that have lost touch with labour’s roots:

    *** ”
    The Devil’s Advocate (Ponsonby)

    10:42 AM Friday, 16 Aug 2013

    This is really sick when a product recall can spark 4 separate inquiries, including an inquiry which has a raft of heavy hitting powers behind it, that include the power to compel hostile witnesses to give evidence under oath (When even the American’s have the 5th Amendment right) and the GCSB bill with all its machinations Isn’t being considered at all by John Key and his National Party co-conspiritors, for an inquiry.

    This Thing we call Prime Minister is getting more dangerous every day. He’s running our country as if its is country, when he’s only a first generation refugee.

    The scores of laws that he and his Natzy Party have been sneaking in through the back door of Parliament under urgency are now starting to come to light, and they represent the most persistent targeted attack, on the freedoms and liberties that we have always enjoyed, until today.

    New Zealand was, prior to the arrival of John Key, the International model of Civil Liberties and personal freedoms, We were the bastion of fiercely independent objective International politic’s, but now we’ve been sold down the river for 30 favours by this reprehensible little deviant who claims to act in our best interests. ****

    Geeeezzzz….

    I wonder what J Key will be accused of next. Killing Elvis?

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  55. kiwi in america (2,314 comments) says:

    I just posted this on Trotter’s blog

    I think the responses of obviously left leaning commenters on this blog post of Chris’ rather makes his point. Campbell made the fatal mistake of believing the Edward Snowden narrative on surveillance – that ALL surveillance is illegal and intrusive and that governments (including Obama’s – a darling to the left in all other matters) the world over are lying to the people. Key evaded on operational matters in the precise way that Clark did. Helen Clark in fact NEVER EVER answered a single question in Parliament on the SIS or the GCSB beyond “I do not discuss matters involving national security”. Key has been the most loquacious and detailed PM in NZ’s history in the extent to which he has discussed matters to do with our security agencies. Key disarmed Campbell not because JC was unprepared or failed to read Hagel or was bamboozled by Key’s Svengali like spin as some have alleged. He was undone because the philosophical underpinnings of his arguments against the GCSB Bill were utterly flawed and it was relatively easy for Key to point that out.

    Key also knows what make middle NZ tick and it aint the GCSB, Kim Dotcom or what Peter Dunne and Andrea Vance did or did not email and who sent the emails to the Henry enquiry when they shouldn’t have. These issues exercise the Opposition (because they have been singularly unable to land any other punches of any substance on Key) and the chattering classes whose dismissive attitude to Key was succinctly summed up by Chris. Middle NZ are much more worked up by the seemingly mundane but personal impacts of governmental overreach like the aborted snapper quota revision. Key, despite his wealth, remembers his roots and what life was like when he was raised in a State house. In this regards he is closer to the average kiwi voter than Clark or Shearer or Goff ever were who remained closeted from the real world and economy after a life in academia, politics or the trough of the UN. These skills are not learned from a focus group or a few media prep sessions. If they were then Shearer would be making a difference and equally or bettering Key. All the spin doctors in the world can’t teach natural political instincts that Key has in spades and Shearer can’t learn to save his life.

    Chris has been around politics long enough to know that this is true and it lies behind his campaigning against Shearer on behalf of Cunliffe who he feels would be more likely to match John Key.

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  56. smttc (767 comments) says:

    KIA, good post. You nailed it.

    The left love to over-intellectualise everything and see conspiracy everywhere.

    And they stupidly believe that they need to demonise John Key to defeat National.

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  57. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    KIA: Very well put.

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  58. Colville (2,318 comments) says:

    *rant mode on*

    This thread really highlights the need for a system where someone who scores (say) 100 thumbs down gets the rest of the day to read but not comment. Does someone really need to post 20% of the comments on a thread? trolls add fuck all to interesting conversation.

    *rant mode off*

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  59. iMP (2,457 comments) says:

    I don;t agree DPF that Chris is taking the Adolf hyperbole too far. He’s not comparing Hitler’s excessess to either Key or anyone else, simply the observation about being committed to a point and the marketing of conviction. Hitler was a consummate politician, so I think the comparison is apt. Some commentators expand the comparison to the whole Adolf canvas too far, which I’m sure Chris T is not. We have to be able to use AH as an example without necessarily attributing the Holocaust etc., to those being compared on a specific point.

    Hitler also loved dogs. So does Key, I’m sure.

    This seems to happen in public debate all the time,. when a speaker alludes to Hitler, or Nazis, and people cry shock horror, he’s calling me a Nazi while completely ignoring the actual point being made.

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  60. dime (10,222 comments) says:

    iMP – i would agree if this was a one off. he seems to have a track record of key/hitler comparisons though

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  61. jaba (2,146 comments) says:

    I remember the annihilation of Micheal Cullen .. Cullens problem was that he was debating financial issues with a pro. Wussel would be dog tucker as well one on one. Mind you, why would key waste precious time arguing finance with the Wizard from Oz?

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  62. rangitoto (264 comments) says:

    Cut the crap iMP. You know as well as anyone else, the only reason for comparing to Hitler on any characteristic is as a slur. You could use plenty of other examples if you just wanted to compare political ability.

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  63. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    All you hear from the left is “he’s lying…. he’s lying”, but you never ever explain exactly what he’s lied about

    Goodness, you surely cannot be that dense, can you? When it comes to lying, he’s right up there with David Bain.

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  64. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    In a dramatic twist on the GCSB bill, John Key now says he will restrict warrants granted to the spy agency so it can’t initially look at the content of New Zealanders’ communications in carrying out its cyber-security function.

    And he says if the Government Communications Security Bureau makes a good enough case to access content, he expects it to seek the consent of Kiwis before looking, unless there is a good reason not to.

    The Prime Minister made the announcement last night in an exclusive written statement to the Herald.

    Goodness, he never said that during his interview with Campbell. The serial liar just can’t seem to get his story straight. Yet this is the same guy who will be signing off warrants. Scary.

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  65. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    Mr Key made the statement in response to questions about his fired-up appearance on Campbell Live on Wednesday night. In the course of the interview he said incorrectly that under the bill, the GCSB would not be allowed to look at the content of communications when conducting their cyber-security functions.

    In fact, there is nothing that prevents it from doing so. But what Mr Key is now saying is that in exercising his power to impose any conditions he wants on a warrant, he will use his discretion to set the default position not looking at content in the cyber-security function.

    A question for all the right-wing nutters – do you think the PM actually knows what is in his own Bill, and why did he feel the need to lie to Campbell?

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  66. flipper (4,332 comments) says:

    Ross69…
    Judging by your continued production of crap, you were the useless prick that wrote this (see above for its full rant) in the NZ Herald this morning –

    *** ” New Zealand was, prior to the arrival of John Key, the International model of Civil Liberties and personal freedoms, We were the bastion of fiercely independent objective International politic’s, but now we’ve been sold down the river for 30 favours by this reprehensible little deviant who claims to act in our best interests. “: ***

    If you had a brain, rossie, it would be lonely. Fuck Off!

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  67. duggledog (1,628 comments) says:

    It must be hard being an aged, tribal, eye blinkered fool. You can understand it though, the fire Trotter warms himself by in his dotage is one of happy happy memories spending OPMs on piss at the pub in Dunedin etc etc. Ah the good old days of socialism!

    Well it’s all over!

    You can tell that Trotter (and so many many others) would simply die before choosing National at the next election – even though they are clearly making a pretty good fist of things.

    Labour needs to re-select their former member Roger Douglas as leader. Fuck that would be interesting

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  68. wiseowl (979 comments) says:

    Yes don’t underestimate JK and a command performance from smile and wave vs John C wave arms and rave.

    But he has been out foxed by the racist party and is responsible for creating a huge rift in this country.

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  69. slightlyrighty (2,098 comments) says:

    Actually, if one reads between the lines, we can see the reasoning behind the attacks on Key and the GCSB bill. It is the one issue that the left seems to have gained some traction over and this has become their battle cry. Even this latest news is being portrayed by the MSM as a “Dramatic Twist” in some sort of attempt to get the coverage back to their own editorial slant rather than a reasoned and factual reporting of events.

    The fact is there is no developed society that does not engage in surveillance of it’s own people. The difference is why the powers that be carry it out, how it does so and what it does with the information it obtains. If a government was to carry out wholesale spying on it’s own citizens, would it go through the whole public consultation that we have been going over in the past year, or would it just engage in spying and to hell with the rights of the people and due process? After all, a true totalitarian government would not be so engaged in the process nor turn up to a major media organisation to debate the issues.

    Now the paranoid, moonbat, lefty fringe, tin foil hat wearing, conspiracy nutters simply will not believe anything that Key says in defence of the bill in it’s current, past or possible future form, and the noise that they generate is, in itself, seen as positive feedback by those opposed to the government who jump on the bandwagon simply because while they may not be opposed to what John Key is doing in this instance, they are opposed to him in principle and are looking for all the support they can get, which is why Labour are being quite vocal about the issue, even though the issue is of their creation with the contradiction of section 14 and section 8 of the legislation they put into place.

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  70. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Wiki,
    Opposition parties are currently expecting a snap election. From the beginning of this term , I have been told by MPs that this govt won’t go the full term..As I have said before , Key looks very unwell..this could be one reason. It is only a matter of time before there is some anouncement about his health. Mark my words.

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  71. RightNow (7,015 comments) says:

    “It is only a matter of time before there is some anouncement about his health. Mark my words.”

    Absolutely. In 2040 when Key has prostate cancer I’ll be like “OMG, that joana! How on earth did she know?”

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  72. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    As I have said before , Key looks very unwell

    Well, there certainly appears to be something amiss with his mental health. No politician in living memory has told as many lies as this PM. If he can’t handle constructive criticism, he should look for another job…

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  73. seanmaitland (501 comments) says:

    @joana –

    go to his facebook page and look at all the photos from this week – he looks exactly the same as he always has:

    https://www.facebook.com/pmjohnkey

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  74. Black with a Vengeance (1,868 comments) says:

    No matter how good Campbell is at chess. When Playing a pigeon like Key, he is on a hiding to nothing, as the pigeon will knock over the pieces, crap on the board and strut around like he won anyway.

    …always liked that meme.

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  75. tvb (4,560 comments) says:

    Key is a star and he is in my lifetime my ideal Prime Minister. But he does have weaknesses. He tends to be impatient with process and can take short cuts from time to time. Mainly because he cannot be bothered making sure due process is observed. This may trip him up one day, though I hope not. He is as truthful as a politician can be and he still has the public’s trust. He wiped the floor with Campbell who is the poster boy for the left. The GCSB matter should not have become the issue it has though I get the impression it is a beltway issue. The bottom line is the economy and Key’s very competent management with some pretty big issues namely the Christchurch earthquake. There the Government has been more than generous likewise Pike River though the victims families are testing the patience of everyone else.

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  76. Pete George (23,832 comments) says:

    Perhaps joana is confusing John Key with Winston Peters.

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  77. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    “John Key is very unwell….expect an announcement very soon”…Didn’t I first read that from trememdously prescient Joana about six months ago?

    Right Now: Very good sir…reminds me of one of those regular predictions of “impending doom” from Private Frazer in “Dads Army”

    Pike: And did he die Mr Frazer?

    Frazer: Aye son, he did…indeed he did….he was 94!

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  78. seanmaitland (501 comments) says:

    @bwav – what drugs are you smoking son?

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  79. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    He is as truthful as a politician can be

    Have you ever thought of becoming a comedian? You’re wasted on here.

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  80. burt (7,436 comments) says:

    ross69

    No politician in living memory has told as many lies as this PM.

    Really… Do you remember Clark – that woman who has been telling porkies forever … constantly… At least Key has the balls to own his own sexuality !

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  81. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    No matter how good Campbell is at chess. When Playing a pigeon like Key, he is on a hiding to nothing, as the pigeon will knock over the pieces, crap on the board and strut around like he won anyway.

    I’ve heard it said that you should never try to wrestle a pig. That is because you end up getting covered in shit and the pig enjoys itself. I don’t think the pig will be being interviewed on TV3 anytime soon. :)

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  82. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    At least Key has the balls to own his own sexuality !

    WTF?

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  83. dime (10,222 comments) says:

    burt – lol

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  84. Ross12 (1,488 comments) says:

    After all the calls for the sacking of the CEO and other management of Fonterra from the experts on the left I’m waiting for them to call for the sacking of Campbell. Mediaworks is in a total financial mess and here is a guy effectively trashing the TV3 brand , surely he has to go if they are to be consistant.

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  85. RightNow (7,015 comments) says:

    ross69: “No politician in living memory has told as many lies as this PM”

    Now it all makes sense. You type very well for a 5 year old.

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  86. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    the left cant deal with JK for one simple reason – anyone who is slightly to the right of them are IDIOTS!

    Well, you are. You can’t even spell.

    I don’t think that people on the left are immune from stupidity, or endorsing weird and unworkable ideas, but you will still get a fair number of people who: (a) understand basic economics; (b) understand the basic economic case for interventions in the economy; and (c) understand how logical inferences work.

    Hardly anyone on here understands those things. All you lot do is rant wildly about the perfidy of the left. You call yourselves conservatives, but you have little understanding of what that term means outside of wild slogans about the perfidy of the left. The irony is that most educated left wingers understand conservative political philosophies better than you do – Chris Trotter being a case in point.

    I remember when Scott Hamilton came here because you were ranting on about Marxists, and showed that none of you knew anything of substance about Marxism or had ever read a work by Karl Marx or any Marxist theorist. And yet, you expect educated people not to think you are stupid?

    The comments sections on this and other conservative blogs are, along with talk radio, the best evidence for the necessity liberal tyranny I can think of. You folks just don’t have a friggin’ clue.

    And David Garrett still can’t see how wild derp like his has driven many reasonable people out of the National Party. Power is one, Te Heu Heu another, and Rich as well. Who’s plan was it to get rid of the rational people and to replace them with herper derpers like Collins and Bennett?

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  87. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    Tom Jackson has a very high opinion of himself……….typical fucken lefty arrogance.

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  88. SW (249 comments) says:

    ‘Typical lefty arrogance’ – excellent way to disprove his point…

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  89. Black with a Vengeance (1,868 comments) says:

    Way to prove his point kowtow, ya fucking idiot!

    …SNAP SW :)

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  90. SW (249 comments) says:

    It had to be noted really didn’t it.

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  91. dime (10,222 comments) says:

    Tom is a bit of a narcissist. All his comments have the condescending tone. Everyone is wrong but him. There is only ever one point of view, his. Gotta feel for the kids he teaches.

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  92. SW (249 comments) says:

    As oppose to Dime’s point of view?

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  93. RightNow (7,015 comments) says:

    I like Collins and Bennett and what they’re doing. Lucky me huh?

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  94. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    The lefties are as sore as ……their poster boy, Alliance Campbell was trounced by the rich prick , a figure they hate with loathing because in their eyes he is a class enemy ,some one who’s done well.

    They want all “working class ” types to be poor ,dependant and most importantly beholden to the Party.Clients.

    I say this as someone who has no particular like of Key ,but ,give him his due he gave that activist prick ,Campbell a good seeing to .

    They don’t like it up ‘em…….and Jackarse ,SW ,Blackie etc have just proved it.

    ps I have studied Marx and he’s not worth an arse wipe,complete bollocks. How’s that dialectic going?FFS.

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  95. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    “derp”…there’s a new one for me….as in “wild derp like [mine] has driven many people from the National Party”

    As I believe the lefties say, that statement is breathtaking “on so many levels” not the least that was never a member of the National Party, much less one of their MP’s…but would some kind person tell me what a “derp” is, and if you’re feeling very generous, specifically what distinguishes wild derps from the others?

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  96. SW (249 comments) says:

    I don’t think I have expressed any views on anything other than pointing out the completely obvious that you made and continue to make Tom Jackson’s point.

    “Lefties are sore as…their poster boy…a figure they hate…they all want…they don’t like up ‘em”. To be expected, but just a continuation of worthless meaningless dribble that adds nothing. No argument, nothing anyone could respond to, simply strange ranting about ‘lefties’ – whovever they may be?

    I guess that is what the internet is about!

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  97. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    DG

    I wondered about “derp” too.

    Earp might have been better ,as in Wyatt:)

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  98. smttc (767 comments) says:

    Boy, the leftie JK haters and malcontents are out in force today.

    As kowtow observes, obviously feeling and sharing the pain with John Campbell. Suck it up.

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  99. itstricky (2,025 comments) says:

    Well articulated Tom you have taken the words out of my mouth. Kowtow has helpfully backed you up with his typical rants. Dime has assisted as well by attacking the person. Keep it up fellas you are doing swell!

    Smttc – did kowtow ‘observe’ or did he dribble? I think I mighta got some on my foot.

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  100. double d (225 comments) says:

    I think Tom did a great job of describing the lefts view their of intellectual superiority. I love it when I get told how lefties understand the theories behind conservatism blah blah. Then we fellow travellers SW and Itstricky give Tom the one handed clap.
    Most who come here have a pretty simple desire. Get the fucking government out of our life and lets us get on with it. Capiche?

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  101. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    Hey itshitty that’s not Jerkarse’s word in your mouth ,it’s his cock.

    See I can be childish and make toilet jokes too.

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  102. Reid (16,728 comments) says:

    What strikes me is all the lefties in this thread are incapable of believing that Key is well intentioned. They can’t seem to understand that a human being who advocates conservative politics [as they see it] could be anything other than selfish and evil.

    This is their idiocy and I think the general phenomena we’ve been witnessing over the last five or so years strikes at the very heart of what it means to be a lefty. Their belief they have a monopoly on good works and love.

    The reason Hulun wasn’t half as popular as Key is at the same point in her execrable reign, is because she pretended to be good and loving but you can’t fool the people all the time and people gradually woke up to the fact, obvious to some of us since the beginning, that she was and always has been a hate-filled harridan of the most vicious kind.

    Key is not like that but what the left and his conservative supporters don’t seem to understand is that Key has some fatal flaws which boil down to the fact that political success does not equal popularity, it equals doing the right thing. That’s what separate great leaders from the rest. When Churchill was the voice in the wilderness in the 30’s, his perspective wasn’t popular, but he was right. If Key was leading GB at that time, he would have been Chamberlain. That’s his flaw. And I might add, I don’t think he sees it. I think he genuinely equates political success with popularity, I think he genuinely believes that’s the correct approach. Because he is a man of [some] principle. But again, lefties can’t bring themselves to see that and I don’t think they ever will. And until they do, they will never get the measure of the man.

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  103. OneTrack (3,374 comments) says:

    “Commerce students rule the world now. We have a good example of that in Wellington right now.”

    So in 2014 the Arts students can have a go. What could go wrong?

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  104. Black with a Vengeance (1,868 comments) says:

    Jeez, you’re a fucking idiot kowtow…

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  105. OneTrack (3,374 comments) says:

    “Good grief are you serious? You think NZ will end up like Nazi Germany? Well I have seen some rediculious statements on this issue but that might just take the cake.”

    If there is a change of government in 2014, you might have to rethink that statement by mid 2015.

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  106. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    Blackie diddums,int anyone paying attention to you?
    How sad.

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  107. Harriet (5,201 comments) says:

    Poor old Tom Jackson#

    Tom’s a teacher, and Teachers are now called facilitators and are no longer expected to teach – so they don’t have to know a lot. They are now irrelevent because the higher educated left have made it so. And besides, anyone can now become a teacher.

    The teachers gush “Oh, look how the kids use the new technology. They are so cool. Look at us dinosaurs. We can’t even comment on a blog.

    Teachers like Tom assume that children are able to experience an abundance of information because of digital tools and will be able to make shrewd judgments about the information. But why does that follow when children are not learning history, science, geography, math, literature, anthropology, sociology, or much else of intellectual substance?

    Well, it’s because teachers participate in their own degradation, by celebrating sending children cool but ignorant into a dangerous world, a world that teachers themselves have never entered into as adults. That’s the acheivement of being a facilitator. The ‘new normal’ of educational class wisdom.

    How sad. How frightening. :cool:

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  108. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    At 9.42 am a new commenter called Brian said that he wouldn’t like to be one of the “poor or disabled” under this government. He is clearly a man familiar with little tricks of the internet/computer language, because his post included a link to another article.

    I immediately invited him to post a couple more links to stories which demonstrate how harsh and uncaring this “Tory” government is to the said poor and disabled, as opposed to the socialist beneficence of Clark.

    Here we are almost 12 hours later, and a deafening silence is all there is to my challenge to our Brian. Perhaps he is still looking. Or perhaps he is sipping pinot gris at some currently fashionable watering hole on Cuba Street. In either case, surely one of his fellow travellers can help out? There must be hundreds of heart rending examples which are easily located by some clever chaps…

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  109. Dennis Horne (2,403 comments) says:

    I appreciate Tom Jackson’s comments. I find him intelligent and lucid.

    I appreciate Reid’s comments, although I think he is mad (“religiosis”) and sometimes wrong. I don’t think Chamberlain was wrong at the time given the information he had. WWI was an unnecessary catastrophe fresh in everybody’s mind. WWII was a tragedy that might have been avoided, if not, certainly worth trying.

    I think Key is straight. In a democracy, I don’t think anyone could do better. Some things are inevitable, and the decline of Western Civilisation is one. Islam will takeover Europe and China will takeover NZ.

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  110. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    Jackarse’s 249 was neither intelligent nor lucid.

    It was a condescending rant.

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  111. itstricky (2,025 comments) says:

    Jackarse’s 249 was neither intelligent nor lucid.

    Unlike your intelligent comments. I see…

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  112. itstricky (2,025 comments) says:

    I immediately invited him to post a couple more links to stories which demonstrate how harsh and uncaring this “Tory” government is to the said poor and disabled

    I can’t say I stand for this chap Brian. You seem to have some sort of “them versus us” mentality that denies the obvious probability that no two people are alike.

    I’ll take your bait in steering the conversation away to some little tidbit that you’ve latched on to. Pick a little thought out of a large statement and focus on that because you’ve got a good feeling about your chances. I imagine he is refering to this:

    The reforms represent the biggest upheaval in the welfare state since the Social Security Act was passed by the first Labour Government in 1938.

    All sickness beneficiaries, and sole parents and widows with no children under 14, are now subject to the same requirement to look for fulltime work as other jobless people, although sickness may be accepted as a valid reason to postpone work temporarily.

    Other new obligations include drug-testing for jobseekers in relevant industries, which is expected to trigger benefit cuts for up to 5800 people, and a requirement for beneficiaries to clear outstanding arrest warrants.

    About 8000 beneficiaries have arrest warrants outstanding for issues such as unpaid fines. Unless they clear them within 38 days, their benefits will be halved if they have children, or stopped completely if they don’t, in what is likely to be the biggest single purge of the benefit rolls since the system was created.

    I don’t think I need to provide a link. I’m sure you can find it yourself. Good luck out there with the technology thing.

    Here we are almost 12 hours later, and a deafening silence is all there is to my challenge to our Brian. Perhaps he is still looking.

    Perhaps he has a life instead of trying to garndiose himself on a blog with a bunch of intelligent commentators (such as kowtow, for example) that lap up his every word without considering it themselves. Hmmm. 4098 / 365 / 10 = more than one comment every day for the past 10 years (with a large assumption that you were here from the start of course). Sure you’re not on a benefit at the moment?

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  113. Black with a Vengeance (1,868 comments) says:

    You never went to school here eh Harriet ?

    Shame you’re still carrying round ages old resentment from your frustrated years at school and projecting it onto others.If only you’d had better teachers!

    I’m afraid it’s you who is sad and frightened so i do hope you haven’t bred. I’d hate to see you pass your fear and insecurity on to your progeny.

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  114. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Tricky/Presland: Well thank you…yep, that stuff you quote is pretty draconian all right..having to pay off fines owed – which are now effectively voluntary, and only paid my the middle class… and having to prove you are safe to work in jobs where you are liable to kill yourself or others if you are affected by drugs or alcohol…Dreadful! In fact that favourite leftie term for anything that holds people to account for their actions…DRACONIAN!

    But many thanks indeed for your help….

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  115. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    I was down in Taranaki recently, visiting the old haunts and catching up with old workmates….I was sad to learn that Alan Gardner, a staunch old style unionist who really did care about the blokes he represented, and was a feirce advocate for them, had died in tragic circumstances…How he must have squirmed to see the Labour Party and the union movement he dedicated his life to – along with vast quantities of booze, sadly – controlled by the likes of you, Andrew Little, and Grant Robertson…

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  116. itstricky (2,025 comments) says:

    I am afraid you have a reading comprehension problem David. Just like with the fellow Brian you seem to only be able to see one or two sentences in a paragraph.

    Do not fret. I can help you here and now. You missed the words ‘sickness’ ‘sole’ ‘parent’ ‘widow’ ‘biggest’ ‘upheaval’

    Glad I could help.

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  117. itstricky (2,025 comments) says:

    Nearly twelve hours later David, no other comments?

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  118. itstricky (2,025 comments) says:

    But but but David, you laid down a challenge and then berated people when they didn’t respond…

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