So three Labour leadership contenders fly around New Zealand offering unofficial policies like – “a home for everyone”, “pay taxi drivers more”, “ban house purchases to Australians”, “provide a Pacifica television channel”, and “give more compensation to Pike River families”.
Why instead did they not actually decide who could better tackle National / Key?
Could have been simpler –
..cunnliffe is the only one in labour that key/national are afraid of..
..and is the only one who is able to demolish key/govt-ministers in that parliamentary-forum..
..whereas robertson..who will make a more than capable minister..and at some future date may well get to lead labour..
..robertson is not currently up to the task of taking on key..both in that forum..and in the upcoming election..
..and what this run-off/race has done..is to highlight the qualities/skills cunnliffe has to hand..
..and has clearly defined cunnliffe as the right man for this particular moment in time..
Josie Pagani has thrown her support behind Shane Jones. Given the way that Pagani was shafted by Labour in the Mana by-election in 2010, and is regularly ridiculed by the Labour commentariat at The Standard, might she and Jones have a plan to break away from Labour, and form a party that represents workers, not those who do not work?
But she absolutely nails Labour’s current malaise with this short sentence:
But the party won’t succeed until it confronts the need to change.
She’s dead right. Labour has done precious little to change, even after a record defeat in 2011. Might Labour suddenly have to confront change when a chunk of its MP’s and members walk away?
When you are done reading about the Mouseketeer follies, over-sensitive Armstrong on the rainbow kid, and whore’s drawers Roy Morgan, try this for a serious poke in the eye from Moscow to Washington…..
Radiolive had the three Labore fat-necks on one at a time (is that because of limited studio space, physically and egotisitcally?) and I listened to Shane Jones. How can I put it? He doesn’t sound normal – just the way that he speaks. He doesn’t sound like a New Zealand homo sapien man. He’s either weird sounding naturally or putting it on for effect (why?). His speaking style on air gave me the shits. When you’re watching what you say with a high-power microscope – you sound like you’re full of shit.
Grant Robertson: If you are gay and have a partner – no problem. So…. why hide the partner away? Isn’t that just reinforcing the stigma that being gay is a ‘thing’ and you pander to people who might be ‘uncomfortable’ seeing two gay men together? How on earth can you be PM if you’re not brave enough to face the world with the person that you love and share your life with?
And then there’s David Cunliffe…. who would try to sell a drowning man a glass of water. Thank you, I’m here all week
Not what was intended by the comment. We are very fortunate in New Zealand to have low levels of violent crime. That doesn’t mean the same as saying we should not be concerned about crime, criminals and the victims of crime.
I spent a lot of time yesterday trying to hold Radio NZ to account on this. I had to persevere even to talk to anyone about it.
Radio NZ selected four mayoral candidates for a Dunedin Mayoral Debate. I talked to Gail Woods in Wellington who dismissed my concerns about them excluding others, she claimed it was just a discussion about the election with the most newsworthy candidates. But she was wrong.
Dear Dave, Hilary, Aaron and Lee,
Thanks for agreeing to our Dunedin Mayoral debate.
*please prepare a one-minute pitch on your mayoral bid to be delivered during the programme.
I talked to their local reporter as well, who claimed that their research had shown that only a few names were known so they decided to cover them – he acknowledged that if media refuse to cover the other candidates it is difficult for them to be known.
I heard many other excuses, including that there were too many candidates to fit in their format.
Democracy is not something that should be adapted to fit a radio format. An election should be a level playing field for all candidates who put themselves forward.
And they said the programme was targeted at a National audience who wouldn’t be interested in all candidates. They acknowledged that there would be a Dunedin audience amongst that.
I think this is disgraceful selection of who to put before the public. Radio NZ are deciding who they think worthy of being considered by voters. It is especially bad coming from our public broadcaster, who has a duty to all voters and all candidates to provide fair election coverage.
Their final word was that it’s done now so too late to do anything about it. I’m not leaving it at this, I have requested that they announce with the broadcasts (it will be repeated on Wednesday night) that they have chosen to exclude candidates they have deemed unworthy of scrutiny – three of which (so far) are very angry. And I have requested they provide equivalent coverage to those they chose to exclude.
Getting equal coverage in any media is difficult enough. At at least they make a point of usually including everyone, but it’s easy to see the signs of who they want to promote more and who they choose to sideline.
Our national public broadcaster is the last media I would expect to bastardise democracy to fit a format that they think is convenient for them.
Particularly ironic is that my main focus is on providing a voice to the many people alienated by our political/media system.
Our democracy is not merit based, it is dominated by “newsworthiness”. That is a significant reason why the quality of our politicians is generally poor. Sound bites override competence.
Yep. Pagani is right on the money with that article. There is much about Shane Jones that is wrong, but he is the only amigo who has been calling out a need for Labour to change. The sub-heading of Pagani’s article summed the whole piece up perfectly, as well as capturing the malaise that have enveloped Labour and completely stymied it since 2008:
…because Labour needs to change, not the voters.
Robertson is not preaching that change. In fact he’s doing the very opposite. He claims their policies are all good and that all that’s lack is a clear articulation of the message (while ignoring the fact that he was responsible for that message as campaign strategist in 2011 and also as deputy for the past 20 or so months.)
Cunliffe is simply trying to outdo Robertson by heading even more extreme Left than the policies which the voters reject (but apparently only reason they have not been articulated clearly.)
I hesitate to say this Pete, but maybe the RNZ producers read Kiwiblog, see 18,988 comments beside your name, and think that you might not fit their “profile”.
That’s not to say that you are a worthy candidate for the mayoralty, and as I have said previously, I have nothing but respect for you for putting your name up. And RNZ should not be discriminating against ANY candidate.
Politics is hamstrung by the capture of a party by groups with ideologies. Hence you have Green Party nutters elevating Maori to God like status (Holy Tangata whenua) and leftists who cannot take a biological/behavioural view of humanity. It takes decades to bring about change once they get entrenched. Why couldn’t we have a sort of empty party system where a party is defined as representing a set of ideas and membership and representatives are advocates as long as they support that position but are vetted (elected- with a public scrutiny)?
Politics doesn’t stop at the political party level as the media can stifle what they don’t want heard.
Absolutely right bhudson. As I have noted in my blog-post, Labour had the chance to change after the 2008 election. And what did they do? They picked Goff and King, Ministers during the Rogernomics era. And we all know how the public rejected Labour in 2011, with a 70-year record low vote.
Labour only has itself to blame for the situation it is now in.
Surely it depends on the number of candidates. Here in Welly there are six standing and it is really a two-horse race between Wade-Brown and Morrison. I’d listen to a radio show focused on those two but giving all six equal time would be unrealistic and less informative.
“Crisis averted. Now Congress suspends its vote on a military strike, the U.N. secures Assad’s chemical stockpile, and the Syrian people can go back to being killed with conventional methods. Everybody wins.” –Stephen Colbert, (American political satirist).
The public service and academia also play a role in politics through their own vetting and self selection. I listened to a long discussion with a Canadian Professor about multi culturalism (“to those who can remember Canada was so booooring!” is highly subjective and biased) and my feeling is he is on the back foot ..”it isn’t failing..it hasn’t been tried”…. “based on 40 years of research”. He is unable to sound credible (to me anyway) even when I listen with all my might.
I just don’t accept that New Zealand has low levels of violent crime. To me it is similar to what we have in the SF East Bay which has double the population and includes the violent crime meccas of Oakland and San Jose.
The worst stories are the ones with NZ Mum’s who sit around while someone bashes their kids. You don’t get much of that kind of shit over here. It’s more shootings within gangs and children are sometimes victims as a result of violent action but are not targeted deliberately, like in the sometimes insular Island culture of NZ.
And I can’t believe that within NZ there is an impression that it’s safer than the rest of the world.
I think it’s popular to believe that NZ is a safe haven but this is not necessarily the case.
Would Cunners sack Mallard? Hutt South would turn blue without Mallard holding it down me thinks.
Actually, after looking at results for King and Goff both of those are on the knife edge of being blue too.
Hahhahahha it just gets better
and yeah I know having a MP win and electorate doesnt make any difference in the outcome but having a MPs office funded staffed and being in visible all helps ram home the advantage of being in power .
Cunners won’t care. National already picked up the party vote there in ’11 and that is the only vote that truly counts, so he can also pin that on Mallard. But basically the animosity is so great that he his happy for that electorate to be tested. If Mallard’s replacement (in ’14) lost, but had no significant impact on the party vote, it wouldn’t affect the total number of Labour MPs and only slightly reduce their total parliamentary funding.
The US & co have only bad and less bad options from which to choose.
mm, the US & co aren’t saving the Syrian people and reacting to a crisis not of their making, they caused the whole thing in the first place because they’ve been funding these bastards since day one.
It’s a shame you haven’t been following it since it started because if you had been you would have seen the same tactics they use in all their regime change operations playing out before your eyes.
Instead you only start noticing as the western media does its bit using precisely the same propaganda techniques as Goebbels and the Soviets used and with precisely the same effect, except the idiots this time aren’t the German or the Russian people who thought the Nazis or the USSR were the good guys, it’s you and millions of similarly ignorant others like you.
And just to give you a clue, let’s take one small example: the gas attack. Everyone knows the real question is not what it was it’s who did it. But have you noticed that since this started the media in almost every single report have focused on the former not the latter question, and the language they use when they issue their latest bulletin on the matter has always been to state as a self-evident fact that it was Assad’s forces who did it. Have you noticed that? No, of course you haven’t. Repeat the lie often enough and the idiots will believe it. Many of them haven’t even asked themselves the latter question, because in their hallucination, the US & co are the good guys and they’d never do something wicked like that, so in their idiot minds, it’s case closed, without even thinking about it.
Interesting isn’t it. How history repeats and repeats and repeats these days. There’s a saying about how to avoid that happening, I guess many people haven’t bothered to acquaint themselves with it.
I know they hate each other so yeah I think TM is gonesville BUT if Liarbore install some girl fresh out of a pollies office into Hutt South the party vote will drop like a dead duck with a belly full of number 5 shot
Politics is hamstrung by the capture of a party by groups with ideologies.
Something similar is happening in Dunedin, where one “group” (party) dominates already – Greater Dunedin – and there’s a chance they will dominate even more.
Mayor Cull is given preferential media treatment despite a half hearted and vague campaign. His party already has four councillors and have nine candidates in all, so could end up with mayor and a majority.
This group has been building cycleways that are hardly used because they are far too dangerous (sharing roads with heavy traffic at their elbows). They want to increase the goal of walk/cycle/bus from 30% to 50%. They want nothing to do with fossil fuels and are against most development proposals.
And despite their #1 priority being listed as “An open council” I revealed this week that the mayor is trying to push a ‘living wage’ for council employees and contractors but says he sees no need to consult. Councillors knew nothing about it.
Ditto for his rental housing warrant of fitness, another Green party policy he is promoting – as mayor but with no council consultation.
And I discovered two of his GD councillors were planning on putting in a DCC submission against a government discussion paper aimed at simplifying offshore exploration consents, and they confirmed that they thought no public consultation was necessary because it was ‘a no-brainer”.
Dunedin is at a crossroads, already veering left. It risks becoming a green ghost city.
I agree with Colville; Hutt South is rock solid for Mallard, but only for him. He is a very effective and popular local MP. I’d imagine he still sees himself as a senior minister post 2014 or even 2017. Any Labour-led government will need some experienced old hands at the Cabinet table.
Monique; depends where you go / live. Cannon’s Creek, Kawerau, Moerewa, Flatbush, Gonville, Flaxmere, Kaitaia – all these places are littered with unemployed, stoned, drunk, angry young men loitering around looking for an excuse to beat the shit out of someone if they look at them the wrong way. (At certain times of the day)
Sure all these places (and so many more) are far safer than the favelas in Rio but that’s not the point. Only a generation ago NZ was nothing at all like it is now. I reckon it won’t be long before somebody posts a warning about no go areas in NZ for tourists because the perception overseas is this is a country you can walk around anywhere in a bikini with wads of cash stuffed in your bag unmolested.
There was an interesting comment on GD recently re the Alawites by ?? and how they only recently were reclassified as muslim as recently 30/40 yrs ago..Assad is an Alawite. Prior to this , they had links back to early Christianity. I heard a Russian speaking on DW TV saying there are terrorists from EVERYWHERE fighting in Syria..from Russia, the US etc so it is really not a civil war but rather a Jihadist operation..Somewhere else I heard again possibly on DW TV , that there are 52 known opp groups..Sounds like a dogs breakfast to me. Meanwhile , it is possible to see beheadings taking place in Syria on Winds of Jihad.
I don’t believe you’re promoting giving the disenfranchised a voice.
I believe you’re promoting yourself. But you don’t like being ignored or put down and that’s why you’re having a moan here.Welcome to the club ,the club of the ignored ,the non political elite , you are desperate to join the political elite and that desperation speaks volumnes.
kowtow 10:21 am Anti-religious bigot thanks. It’s not pathetic, it’s perfectly reasonable. Unlike religious faith which is irrational.
What has it got to do with the story? I thought religious peeps were into following rules an shit, no? Doing the right thing? Having some principles?
Would I do anything to smear christians? That reeks of effort…. I mean I’ve got a lot on today… I’d love to spend the whole day just doing anything to smear christians but I’ve got to go to the supermarket, return library books, housework… far out.. I aint got the time kowtow!! It’s a gorgeous day in wallytown… damned if I’m going to waste it doing anything to smear christians all day long. Boring!!
Yeah… I’m not into Christians kuzzie. Sorry!!
Are you one of them? You certainly help their cause if you are eh, with all of your worldly charm slugger!!
Is it not curious how key parts of the total Crewe murders evidentiary picture mysteriously disappear while in Police custody?
Chris Birt has a lengthy NZ Herald Op Ed on the matter that is worth reading, whatever way one views the mess that this inquiry has become.
The article that Chuck B refers to concludes as follows:
*** “Des Thomas said he believed police had the fingerprints and DNA evidence but were withholding them. He said finding the killer would focus questions on the lack of any criminal inquiry into corrupt policing.
Crewe murder author and researcher Chris Birt said the fingerprints from the house and car could lead police to the killer.
“If key exhibits from what is undoubtedly the most scrutinised double homicide case cannot be kept safe [in police care] then answers must be demanded and explanations given at the highest levels.”
Defence lawyer Gary Gottlieb said police needed some form of independent oversight on the Crewe case. The disappearance of key evidence such as fingerprints should not happen, he said. “It is a case of huge public interest … This is one of the cases where there has been the most concern over police behaviour.”
Labour Party justice spokesman Andrew Little said police should have nothing more to do with the Crewe case, which should be independently investigated. “I don’t think it is healthy for them and their reputation, or the people whose lives have been blighted by the case.”
He said he wanted a body formed to investigate miscarriages of justice – an idea Labour would explore if returned to government.” ***
kowtow – I’m not trying to be one of ‘the political elite”, in fact the opposite, I’m more of an ordinary person’s political revolutionary. And I know I’m far from alone amongst the large and mostly quiet disenfranchised group of voters.
I think the political and old school don’t like me because I’m different and I’m promoting something quite different – a means of people having a better, stronger voice in politics. It’s not my own interests, it’s in the interest of many outside the political embubbled mainstream.
Pete, you are as much of a professional politician as anyone else in the race given your ongoing involvement in United Future.
And would an “ordinary person’s political revolutionary” sycophantically side with a lying and hypocritical disgraced Government Minister while slandering innocent public servants? Would an “ordinary person’s political revolutionary” be nothing but a bobblehead doll and UF mouthpiece and side with UF over what is good for NZ on every occasion?
And that is just on the Vance issue, putting aside a myriad of other actions like your slandering of groups such as the NZ Law Society and our country’s top QC’s, in an effort to try and smokescreen your Dear Leader’s odious actions over the passing of the GCSB Bill.
In short, you are a (unpaid albeit) politician, and not even close to being an ordinary person’s political revolutionary. I am not sure the good people of Dunedin would appreciate your assumption on their part that you are their political revolutionary, either. More likely you will just come off as sounding like Penny Bright with sentiments like that.
You keep talking of “direct democracy” and community participation in politics, and letting the people have a voice. Your actions over Dunnegate, your utterances on this blog, your continual defence of the indefensible suggest you really believe in anything but listening to the people. You didn’t listen when Peter Dunne disgraced himself, why will you listen now?
Outrageous. It is deeply disturbing to me that the mainstream media are so easily able to manipulate the public psyche and shape the politics of the world, not just NZ. This is insidious and dangerous so it is plainly way past time to call the media to account.
So we only get the necessary information to decide upon how to elect our officials based upon the 10 second sound byte and who has the highest profile or is most popular with the media?
Pete, perhaps your experience goes some way to explaining why as a society we see little to no progress and the same old faces in positions of power generation in, generation out.
Thank you for getting it out there. This is seriously important.
The media power in picking winners and losers in politics is of concern to some people at least.
There’s going to be a change of govt. No one but National Socialist freaks want to be spied on
Labour/ Greens 47.5% (up 2%) now well ahead of Nationals 41% (down 3%) before Labour elects new Leader on Sunday September 15
Support for Labour has risen to 32.5% (up 1%); Greens are 15% (up 1%) – their highest level of support since May 2012, New Zealand First 6.5% (up 1%), Mana Party 0.5% (unchanged), Conservative Party of NZ 1.5% (up 0.5%) and Others 0.5% (unchanged).
If a National Election were held now the latest NZ Roy Morgan Poll shows that a Labour/ Greens alliance would win easily.
To avoid a wide=ranging inquiry, all they need do is dust off the Law Commission Report that Doug Graham got The Cabinet to shelve.
Shit, as much as it pains me to say it, it would get Collins et al of the hook on a lot – a growing list of issues.
But Pora has bolted, and the Crown must now do the decent thing. Compensation will be massive.
Bain is in the last furlong, being ridden hands and heels by Reed/Karam/Joseph, and leading by 12 lengths, with the opposition limping badly.
Left-wing “Manawatu Standard” from the disgusting Fairfax stable, has once again shown its socialist bias. A man caught and discharged on a DIC charge, the headline reading: “Businessman Sidesteps Conviction”, is not exactly fact. He did not sidestep conviction, he was technically cleared because unauthorised person took his blood, and why highlight the fact he was a businessman! If this had been a Labour/Green-supporting loser would this have been the headline . . . I think not. Time these parasitic, so-called journalists are taken to task for misleading reporting and charged with heavy penalties being imposed. Do they not realise the businessman possibly advertises in their pathetic rag and keeps the slugs in oversalaried positions.
Pete: Do you also agree that there should never be a debate with only Key and Cunliffe/Roberston/Jones/whoever before the next election, and that there should only be debates where all parties are present?
Promote that idea strongly within Labour. I like the idea of a National-led government continuing.
If Pagani has her way, you’ll get a National government even if Labour wins the election. She’s one of the airheads who’ve wormed their way into the party establishment and hollowed out the Labour apple. She needs to find employment more appropriate to her level of talent: something in the janitorial sector would do nicely.
The media power in picking winners and losers in politics is of concern to some people at least.
Pete I think it’s probably a concern to most, but possibly they don’t really care about particular instances of it, since we all know they do it, all the time, and it’s not the worst thing they do, so if you want to talk about deleterious things in the media, then why not talk about something that is more damaging, such as their appalling superficiality in all things, rather than complaining about a single example of a single dimension which affects you and you alone, and then pretending that if people don’t agree with your complaint then that means they don’t care about the wider point you are making, which, since it’s not rocket science, we’re all well aware of and we always have been.
In mayoral elections there is no dependency on party vote so each candidate has a chance, should they be given equal exposure
Pete I suggest you do something outrageous like announce that you’ve decided it’s fair, sensible and reasonable to use council funds to blow up RadioNZ’s Dunedin transmission tower and use the site to build a roost for some rare birds or something.
After all it’s name recognition that’s the name of the political game, isn’t it. If you don’t think that would go down well then get the other Peter to shave his head in the name of your campaign and don’t invite RadioNZ to cover it. That’d do the same thing and everyone would think by comparison with the first idea, that’s extremely fair, sensible and reasonable.
“Party leader debates are quite different to local body elections, only two party leaders have any chance of being Prime Minister.”
Surely this is the exact same argument that RadioNZ is using against you and others? They have chosen the 4 they think have any chance of being Mayor of Dunedin. It unfortunately doesn’t include your good self, but it seems to me that if you’re arguing that they should allow everyone in the debate, then Hone and Banks should be on the stage next to Key and .
PG: I’ve read all 7 of your comments here about RNZ’s “travesty of democracy” in a Dunedin mayoralty race that you seem to feel should be firing up citizens of your fair city. Don’t you think you’re becoming just a little extravagant for the Pete George whom we all know so well for treading a reasonable, moderate path? In particular, your self-designation as “an ordinary person’s political revolutionary” was egregiouly vain – albeit adding mirth to an otherwise dreary discourse.
You’ve become afflicted with the widespread NZ malaise of entitlement-itis. Simply because you have signed and submitted a nomination form does not mean that you have an automatic right to be heard. If you want to dispense your local political views widely, why don’t you get out and promote yourself rather that expect somebody else to provide you with a free national platform? Why not draw up some interesting, thought-provoking strategies and policies, and go to all the Dunedin media seeking to be interviewed on each of them? If you get one strike in five attempts, you have probably done OK. Why not set up your own blog where you can deliver your message(s) in detail without any risk of their being distorted by the filthy, selective media? (Sorry, you’ve aleady done the online blog trick, and found that few were remotely interested.)
Face reality, PG. You’re not the first “political revolutionary” to believe that he / she has been neglected or disadvantaged by the media. You certainly won’t be the last. If you think that you have something constructive to offer the local Dunedin electorate, especially coming relatively late to the contest, you need to become exceptionally creative to promote your candiacy and your unique ideas. Nobody owes you any exposure; you have to create it yourself, or be prepared to pay for it.
And if Dunedin fails to rush in with buckets-full of votes for you, please don’t spend the next 6 months regailing us further with your misfortune, or the glaring miscarriage of democracy of which you became an unwitting victim.
Barrett Brown Can’t Talk About Why the Government Wants to Jail Him for a Century
In the US government’s campaign against journalists (FAIR Blog, 8/27/13), Barrett Brown is one of the lesser-known victims. And now even less will be forthcoming about his story, as the Texas-based writer, satirist and Internet activist is under a federal court gag order, forbidden to talk about his case or the charges that could land him in prison for more than 100 years.
Brown was arrested in Dallas a year ago, hit with a dozen charges of identity theft for pasting a link to the chat room of ProjectPM, a wiki research forum he founded in 2009. The link led to a huge cache of hacked documents posted to WikiLeaks that had been purloined from the intelligence contractor Stratfor Global Intelligence. Among some 5 million documents, some politically embarrassing to the firm and its clients, were some files containing credit card information. Brown’s linking to the huge trove containing a relatively small amount of personal financial information is the basis for the identity theft charge. Brown is also on trial for related charges of concealing evidence and threatening a federal agent.
Brown says the didn’t know what was in the encrypted documents he’d linked to, and he’ s on record condemning theft and the use of purloined credit cards by activist hackers. According to Brown, he posted the link in order to make the information available for crowd-sourced research. ProjectPM had previously published revealing information about other government contractors, including a plan by contractor HBGary to discredit journalist Glenn Greenwald with a disinformation campaign for his support of WikiLeaks (Nation, 6/18/13.)
Explaining Brown’s actions and how they fit into the larger context of journalism, the New York Times’ David Carr wrote an exceptional story yesterday, reporting:
“The science of DNA on Monday cleared the 200th person wrongfully convicted of a crime in the United States, a record that demands that the criminal justice system fix its serious flaws,” editorialized the Philadelphia Inquirer (4/25/07), after Jerry Miller of Illinois became an American exoneration milestone.
As milestones often do, Miller’s exoneration gave the press an easy “news peg” to report on DNA testing and the troubled U.S. criminal justice system. And report they did. Most major news organizations filed at least one piece on Miller’s exoneration, with some editorializing for significant reform and others raising specific questions about the way in which “justice” is handed down in this country.
The Washington Post (5/3/07), for example, raised questions about the racial skew of rape exonerations–those cleared are disproportionately black men accused of sexually assaulting white women–and touched on reforms in police and prosecutorial work being made in some jurisdictions, such as taping police confessions and interrogations, relying less on police lineups and focusing on DNA testing if possible, rather than the notoriously faulty eyewitness identification.
Pete George, you’re no revolutionary. You’re a smirking coward and a liar who has absolutely no qualms about smearing other persons with totally false allegations. If any group of citizens are so desperately uninformed as to elect someone as dishonourable as yourself to any mayoralty they deserve everything that will befall them.
Not to mention foreign Middle Eastern religions being imposed on them, like Christianity. They need to get back to being Pagans or something.
It’s the Indians and the Chinese requesting most of the abortions due to the baby being a girl. If they were Christians, they wouldn’t even consider abortion on that basis.
Also, in ancient, pagan Rome, Christians went against the prevailing mood by refusing to practice contraception, abortion and infanticide (mostly of girls) and even rescued pagan children that had been left out in the elements to die.
We are actually, in the post-Christian West, slowly reverting back to paganism. You only have to talk to people to find that there are many who are spiritual, but not religious. New Age shops all over the place, astrology in all the papers, lots of people going to spiritual healers – it’s rampant. There was even a hospital in the North Island that wanted to open a clinic to host all sorts of weird and wonderful alternative methods of healing, many of which were pretty close to witch craft.
I’ll leave you with an old post of mine where I quote Hilaire Belloc on the new paganism: Despair as a foundation of modern society. In summary, the new pagan despairs, as he has rejects both good and evil.
Ultimately, the Ustashe murdered more than 30,000 Jews, or 75 percent of the country’s prewar Jewish community.
Most of us are aware of camps such as Birkenau, Dachau, Treblinka and Bergen-Belsen, where the Germans and their henchmen systematically slaughtered millions of innocents.
But how many of us have heard of Jasenovac or the horrors that were perpetrated there by Croatian fascists? Known as “the Auschwitz of the Balkans,” it was the largest of a network of camps established by the independent state of Croatia, which the Nazis set up on April 10, 1941.
But it was the two million Serbs then living in Croatia who were the primary targets of Pavelic and his quislings.
With a bloodlust rivaled only by that of their Nazi patrons, the Ustashe set about the task of “cleansing” Croatian soil by torching Serb villages, beheading priests and herding Serbian worshipers into Orthodox churches before setting them alight. Over 200,000 Serbs were forcibly converted to Catholicism, with the active help and encouragement of the Archbishop of Zagreb, Aloysius Stepinac.
For those who don’t like history, here is something recent.
Will the Catholic Church apologize for the genocide of Serbian Orthodox Christians?
The raped and murdered Serbian grandmothers who were too old to leave their homes, the slaughtered livestock of Serbian peasants and their poisoned wells, the bombings of fleeing refugee columns, the attacked Serbian Orthodox Nuns, the repeat of WWII history, etc. were all justifiable in the eyes of Western leaders who have only heard of alleged crimes committed by Serbians in a civil war but do not care about the crimes committed against Serbian civilians.
Croatian Catholic clergy actively participated in and helped organize mass orgies of sadistic violence and evil heresy as some even had competitions to see how many Serbian throats could be slit with one knife – the record being some 1360 in one evening. Serbians were murdered right in their Orthodox Churches (e.g. in Glina) and thousands of Serbs were converted en masse to Catholicism only to be slaughtered immediately afterward.
The Ustaša – Croatian Revolutionary Movement (Croatian: Ustaša – Hrvatski revolucionarni pokret) was a Croatian fascist and terrorist organization which was active before and during World War II. Its members, Ustaše (pronounced [ûstaʃe], also anglicised Ustashe, Ustashas or Ustashi) were responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of citizens of Yugoslavia, particularly Serbs. The ideology of the movement was a blend of Fascism and ultraconservatism. Ustaše supported the creation of a Greater Croatia that would span to the River Drina and to the border of Belgrade. The movement emphasized the need for a racially “pure” Croatia and promoted persecution and genocide against Serbs, Jews and Romani people. Fiercely nationalistic, the Ustaše were also fanatically Catholic. In the Yugoslav political context, they identified Catholicism with Croatian nationalism. Following Croatian nationalism, they declared that the Catholic and Muslim faiths were the religions of the Croatian people. The Ustaše also saw the Islam of the Bosniaks as a religion which “keeps true the blood of Croats.”
The methods of the Ustaše are not supported by the Church, the Pope, and most Catholics. Note that they were an ultra-nationalistic movement, which is the antithesis of Catholicism. One cannot be fiercely nationalistic and fanatically Catholic, as the wikipedia article states. It’s like being a Catholic Socialist, they’re mutually exclusive.
Here is a recently beatified martyr who spoke out against the nationalism of his government during WWII, Croatian Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac, who said of nationalism in a letter to the papal nuncio in 1935:
“I always felt horrible pain because of exaggerated nationalism, wherever in the world it rules. On its account man is no longer brother to another man, but becomes a wolf. Therefore, the next council of the Holy Church should condemn exaggerated nationalism first among the contemporary heresies, as the biggest plague of the human race.”
We are actually, in the post-Christian West, slowly reverting back to paganism.
Yes Lucia. And few know it and fewer still recognise it but the UN’s Temple of Understanding plays an important role in this movement which, like everything else in politics, isn’t just a bunch of stuff that happens. As someone once said: in politics, if it happens, it was designed to happen. Until people wake up to their present reality and stop hallucinating that it’s just a random bunch of stuff that just came about by accident, nothing will change.
The actions of the Catholics appalled even the SS, and fellow Catholic Adolf Hitler pleaded with his Catholic allies to be more humane in the methods used to establish a Catholic state. The Catholics finished what they started only recently. This was all done in the name of Catholics and every Catholic is part of it. Every donation you Catholics made to the Church helped fund genocide in the 90′s and 40′s. You all have blood on your hands
This is what kowtow and Lucy are part of. This is their movement and what they support.
You know that part of the world (Yugoslavia) was subject to 5 centuries of Muslim occupation? The people in the area most likely picked up some of the more successful strategies, such as enforced conversion and/or death. Not that enforced conversion really ever works for Catholicism, it has to freely entered into.
In a just world Kissinger would have been prosecuted and imprisoned for war crimes. Instead, he’s a well-paid foreign policy consultant. And, today, he has the ears of Secretary of State John Kerry:
Secretary of State John Kerry is consulting Henry Kissinger, the 90-year-old embodiment of Cold War foreign policy, before heading off to negotiate with his Russian counterpart over Syria’s chemical weapons.
Lucy, you once again show no principles. If you are opposed to foreign religions being imposed on people, then that is the Principle. However, you have no problem with foreign religions being imposed when it is YOUR religion being forced on others. So you have no principles. Just hate and bias.
Christianity is not native to England. It is native to the Middle East. It was imported from there and imposed on Europe and the world by force. It was not until very recently that the Church stopped hideously torturing people to death for not being believers. As you can see, it still goes on today !
Why are you telling me this ? I did not write the article in the Jerusalem Post. I am not a Jew and I do not live in Israel. Why don’t you write to the Jerusalem Post and tell them ? I am sure they would love you to contribute an article trying to minimise, deny, and explain away the Catholic Holocaust[s].
No Reid I am not. I have no religion and have no inclination to support any of that. You have never seen me on here crying for war against anyone. Daily we see the resident christians demanding war, or excusing war, against other religions. You are part of it and it is going on right now. This is not history it is present day reality for millions of people who just happened to be born in a Muslim country. When they are not slaughtering Muslims, in a modern crusade, they then turn to butchering other christian sects, as you will see in the articles above.
Will you be writing to the “Trolls” at the Jerusalem Post and if not, why ?
Reid, sorry if I overlooked your evidence for god. Please repost it and we can end this debate once and for all. Is there more evidence for god than the Catholic Holocaust you deny ever happened, and seem to think is a Jewish lie published in the Jerusalem Post ?
Edit: Kea perhaps you’ve forgotten that I asked you a question above relating to an allegation you made about me and I’m waiting for you to answer that. Trying to misdirect your need to answer that in deference to some bullshit topic you just made up about the Jerusalem Post seems like trolling to me, mate.
The Holocaust was the attempted genocide of the Jews, implemented throughout much of Europe by the leaders of the German National Socialist Workers Party, that resulted in the deaths of approximately 6 million Jews during the years of World War 2. This would include any Jews killed under the auspices of the Ustase during German hegemony in Croatia during that period.
The massacres of various other ethnic groups in the former Yugoslavia, during both WW2 and the 1990s, were abominations in the history of mankind, but they were not a part of the Holocaust.
To accuse any person of Holocaust Denial is a serious charge, one that should not be made without proper evidence. To accuse someone of Holocaust Denial when they are not denying that about 6 million Jews died during WW2 is simply to lie.
Kea, you are lying in the most offensive way. None of the people you are harassing are denying the Holocaust. Rather, you are fabricating accusations based upon a twisting of the term as it is currently understood. You are being offensive and gross, as well as making defamatory falsehoods.
It much is worse than your usual trolling, indeed it is a downright malicious falsehood.
Anyone know who the father and son are running for Council in Hamilton, King is the surname, the boy looks about 12, I am assuming they are labour hacks as the bill boards are red and lining a kid up for politic s at that age would suggest he’ going to be good for fuck all else as he grows up.
F E Smith, I am pleased I have offended an increasingly sanctimonious wanker. Lucy & co have attempted to deny the Catholic Churches involvement in a number of genocides. I note you have nothing to say about that and try to turn the conversation to Kea. If you don’t want the Jerusalem Post to write about it, then take it up with them.
“To accuse any person of Holocaust Denial is a serious charge,”
No it is not. This is not Germany and we do not lock people up for questioning historical accounts. So Lucy is safe.
“The methods of the Ustaše are not supported by the Church, the Pope, and most Catholics. Note that they were an ultra-nationalistic movement, which is the antithesis of Catholicism. One cannot be fiercely nationalistic and fanatically Catholic, as the wikipedia article states. It’s like being a Catholic Socialist, they’re mutually exclusive.”
Here is a test for you, and others. Read her posts again but replace the word Catholic and Church with Nazi and Socialist. Would you consider it ok to say that most National Socialist Workers Party members did not support the holocaust and that is not what they are about ? Would it be ok to deny the Nazi involvement in the Holocaust ?
Because that is exactly what Lucy is doing. She denies that the people who are known to have done this are responsible. It is established fact and they have done so more than once.
Lucy & co have attempted to deny the Catholic Churches involvement in a number of genocides
Whether or not that is true (and having read their responses I can say that I disagree with you), none of that can accurately be termed “Holocaust Denial”.
I note you have nothing to say about that and try to turn the conversation to Kea.
That is because you are the one who falsely brought in the term “Holocaust Denial”. Disagree with them all you want, but accusing someone of Holocaust Denial is a specific and very serious accusation, one that is quite actionable under defamation law.
“To accuse any person of Holocaust Denial is a serious charge,”
No it is not.
That is either supremely ignorant of you, or just plain pigheaded.
EDIT: When I use the word ‘charge’, I do not mean ‘criminal offence’. If I did mean that I would have used those words. When I say ‘charge’ I mean ‘accusation’. I don’t pretend to know what you thought I meant, but I want to clarify that, as you apparently need things spelt out to you in words that are as small as possible.
F E Smith, In some countries people get locked up for doing less than Lucy did. She denies the official account of the Holocaust and attempts to divert blame from those responsible. Just the same as some Nazi apologists do. You can not get your head around that fact because the people responsible were Catholic Nationalist, not Nazi’s. But the principle is identical.
Lucy blatantly lies about the churches wrong doings and turns nasty when I point out accepted historical fact. Like the whopper about he Phillipines being invaded by those nasty Muslims, when in fact it was a Muslim country until the Catholics invaded and forced conversion. I am not trying to turn her against the church but she should admit the truth. Even the bible takes a dim view of liars.
No, she didn’t. The only person lying here is you, when you say things like that.
You can not get your head around that fact because the people responsible were Catholic Nationalist, not Nazi’s.
You see, you are making more things up as you go along. I have never said that the Ustase were not Catholic and Nationalist. However, I am also aware of the history of the region, and during much of WW2 they operated a puppet state under German hegemony.
To say that I “can not get (my) head around” that is, true to your style, completely false.
You appear to have a great deal of difficulty sticking to the truth. You seem to make up what people who disagree with you have said according to what you want them to say, rather than what they actually say. Indeed, many of your disagreements appear to be with points that you make up and then credit to others.
F E Smith, yes she does deny the official account. It is clear in what she wrote. If someone denied the Nazi involvement in the holocaust what would you say ? You would be appalled. So why the double standard when the Catholic Church is held to account ?
Like the gutless lying religious apologists you have no reasoned response and have to try and discredit what I posted with impotent cries of “troll” & “liar”.
But here is your problem. I am not a Jewish author living in Israel publishing articles in the Jerusalem Post. He disagrees with Lucy and it is him she should be taking this up with, not me. If she want to rewrite history to sanitise the churches involvement in these atrocities then I can not help her. Shooting the messenger won’t help.
I look forward to you defending Holocaust deniers in future, with pleas that the Nazis were not involved. Just as you are now defending those who claim the documented fact of the Catholic Holocaust was not done by Catholics. And they did not just happen to be Catholics doing bad things. They did it to promote a Catholic state. It was done because of their faith. Got a problem with that, then re-write history and blame someone else. Lucy actually tried to blame the Muslims ! But not a word from any of you pretenders.
These are the people Lucy tried to blame for what the Catholics did :
Just to clarify things for you, I do not deny that people who were baptised Catholic committed all sorts of atrocities during WWII, including that which you have highlighted here. I do not deny that they did this in order to create a Catholic state.
What I do deny is that this sort of thing is sanctioned by Catholicism and by the Church, meaning the entire Church represented by the Pope and the Magisterium. Any Catholic who acts in this manner and dies unrepentant would most likely burn in hell for eternity.
They estimated the number of Jews in Europe before the war. Then estimated the number after. The difference between the two figures is the total. All Jews alive at that time are considered Holocaust survivors, even if they were never persecuted and suffered no more than those around them during the war years.
In a war that killed around 70 million, it would be interesting to see how many Christians and atheists died, using the same method. We are told the Russians were atheists and they suffered the worst by far. They were treated no better by the Germans than the Jews were.
Lucy, there is no defending your denial of the Catholic churches involvement.
They did what they did to promote a Catholic state. Their Catholic faith was the reason for what they did. They did it then and they did it again recently.
I have been there. As one Croat said to me “We are white Roman Catholics we fought hard for that and it is just the way we like it”. He was not some redneck and was very well traveled. He also said there was not much difference between them and the Serbs, mainly holidays and religious observances, but he would not want his daughter marrying one. I also hung out with a Muslim guy who told me of his experiences and an Israeli, so I pretty much heard a good variety of perspectives. Neighboring countries I visited often consider the Croats as Catholic Facists, but what would they know a ?
May 7, 1920: “Jewish war sufferers in Central and Eastern Europe, where six million face horrifying conditions of famine, disease and death.” May 5, 1920: “[T]o save six million men and women in Eastern Europe from extermination by hunger and disease.”
May 5, 1920: “Six million starving, fever-stricken sufferers in war-torn Europe appeal to us. May 3, 1920: “Your help is needed to save the lives of six million people in Eastern and Central Europe.
May 2, 1920: ” . . . Six million human beings, without food, shelter, clothing or medical treatment.”
May 1, 1920: “But the lives of six million human beings are waiting for an answer.”
Nov. 12, 1919: ” . . . tragically unbelievable poverty, starvation and disease about six million souls, or half the Jewish population of the Earth . . . a million children and five million parents and elders.” Sept. 29, 1919: ” . . . tragically unbelievable poverty, starvation and disease . . . about six million souls, or half the Jewish population of the Earth.”
Aug. 10, 1917: “Germans Let Jews Die. Women and Children in Warsaw Starving to Death . . . Jewish mothers, mothers of mercy, feel happy to see their nursing babies die; at least they are through with their suffering.”
Jan. 14, 1915: “In the world today there are about 13 million Jews, of whom more than six million are in the heart of the war zone; Jews, whose lives are at stake and who today are subjected to every manner of suffering and sorrow . . . ”
But to go one step further back in time. In 1900, Rabbi Stephen Wise made the following statement for Jewish welfare organizations in the United States: “There are six million living, bleeding, suffering argu- ments in favor of Zionism.” [Editor's italics]
No, she really doesn’t. Firstly, a newspaper article is not ‘the official account’ of the Holocaust. Regardless of whether it is accurate or not (and I have no problem with its accuracy), it is not ‘the official account’.
Secondly, she did not deny that the Ustase were Catholic. What she did say is that the actions of the Ustase were in no way representative of, or official policy of, the Catholic Church, which is correct. What she said was:
The methods of the Ustaše are not supported by the Church, the Pope, and most Catholics.
Your characterisation of her as a ‘holocaust denier’ based upon that statement is completely and utterly false.
Your arguments are, quite frankly, hysterical.
you have no reasoned response and have to try and discredit what I posted with impotent cries of “troll” & “liar”.
No, you are doing a good job of that yourself. And in my opinion you are both a troll and a liar.
I am not a Jewish author living in Israel publishing articles in the Jerusalem Post. He disagrees with Lucy
The first part is irrelevant, and the second part is false. That article in no way contradicts Lucy’s point.
I look forward to you defending Holocaust deniers in future, with pleas that the Nazis were not involved.
I have never defended Holocaust deniers, and never will. If I thought that the Holocaust had been denied here on KB today I would have condemned such a denial. The problem for you is that the Holocaust has not been denied, you have just lied about it being so. I do consider that you accusing me of defending Holocaust deniers to be defamatory, however.
the documented fact of the Catholic Holocaust was not done by Catholics
Actually, I think that you are a complete and utter moron. That is like saying that because the Rwanda genocide was carried out by human beings that you, Kea, as a human being, are responsible for the deaths in Rwanda in 1994.
Anyway, there is no recognised event known as the “Catholic Holocaust”. You are, again, making up terms to suit yourself.
Got a problem with that, then re-write history and blame someone else.
I am not going to re-write history. You are doing a good enough job of it on your own.
So calm down and go and haunt some other blog site. You have made 7400 plus posts and you have still have nothing positive to contribute.
F E Smith you really are a slimy prick. They did what they did to promote a Catholic state. It was done primarily for religious reasons. Some Catholics (But not Hitler who was also Catholic) may not have sanctioned it. But would you be on KB pointing out that some Nazis did not approve of persecuting Jews, therefore the Nazi party is not responsible ?. Yes or no ? Yet you are comfortable doing the exact same thing when the murderers are Catholics. Remember they did not just happen to be Catholics doing bad things. Their Catholicism was their reason, motivation and driving force. They said so themselves !
So they said so, Catholic clergy at the time said so, historians and those who have studied it say so, the Jews who were persecuted and lived through it say so… but Lucy and F E Smith say they are all wrong. Well you go tell the survivors that arsehole.
You are a jumped up moron with no principles so do not assume the moral high ground little man. If you do not like my comments then do not read them. I don’t take directions from the likes of you in real life or on KB.
Lucia Maria (1,627) Says:
September 14th, 2013 at 4:09 pm
You know that part of the world (Yugoslavia) was subject to 5 centuries of Muslim occupation? The people in the area most likely picked up some of the more successful strategies, such as enforced conversion and/or death. Not that enforced conversion really ever works for Catholicism, it has to freely entered into.
Here we have this hate mongering idiot blaming the Muslims for what her Church did ! And not a word from the Smith creature…
Lucy needs to tell the Catholic Church about her theory on forced conversion. They have been murdering and torturing people for centuries to force conversion. And yes they are still forcing conversion today. To claim otherwise is a bald faced fucking lie.
Forced membership of Catholic Church in the Philippines
A child is baptized again in the Philippines, and it all happens without the child’s consent, it is doomed that permanent membership for the Catholicism in the country is still at large. Even if the child grows older and converts to another faith, he will still fall under the Catholic religion statistically in the country and the church. When the child reaches 18, the age of consent in the Philippines, the adult is now left only with the action, either to visit or no longer visit church. Having become an Agnostic or Atheist, it remains a personal description. All forms and application letters can be left blank in the section where religion is asked for. One can draw a line, write “Atheist” or no religion, but officially, the church will still claim membership.
F E Smith, I look forward to your continued support of Holocaust Deniers in future… because some Nazis did not approve of it.
You have established a precedent and I will enjoy watching you apply it in similar situations. You can also defend pedos with the defense that some pedos do not assault kids and pedo organisations like NAMBLA do not “officially” sanction it. This will be fun watching you prove your not full of shit by sticking to the principle you applied here.
Wainui is certainly a hotbed of passion JB. Many years ago I got roped in to a pool/darts visit to the Tavern….most of the home team had to be summons from the carpark whenever there games came up.
There was a pretty much non stop scrap going on in one part of the park & the stoners were concentrated at the rear entrance. In deference to the sensitive nature of us visitors rooting was confined to the back of the vans spread around the area.
We returned to the backwaters of the Wairarapa victorious, drunk & stoned yet mercifully free from VD.
Croatians rip Holocaust book for criticizing archbishop
ZAGREB, Croatia — The authors of a book on the Holocaust in Croatia are coming under attack for their depiction of a Catholic leader’s actions during the Nazi years.
The weekly Catholic newspaper The Sound of the Council launched the attacks on Slavko and Ivo Goldstein, authors of “Holocaust in Zagreb,” for their criticism of Alojzije Stepinac. Stepinac was archbishop of Zagreb between 1941 and 1945, when Croatia was ruled by a pro-Nazi regime.
Firstly, the Catholic Church does not force baptisms, parents queue on the church doors, using the full powers they have of freely consenting (as adults) to obtaining a baptism for their child.
You appear to be outraged over the fact that children cannot provide their own consent. That puts you in the same company as pedophiles. My advice – don’t push for a law change.
You appear worried that they may be counted as a Catholic by the Church, but so what? There are other data sources as well – such as the Census information, and how many people actually turn up to mass (figures which the Catholic Church publish, along with a lot of other data about these things). And once a person turns 18 and has children, guess what – the Church isn’t there forcibly converting them, they simply don’t bother to baptise their children. So your outrage lasts one generation. No need to make out like it’s a big deal.
April marks the ten-year anniversary of the beginning of the genocide in Rwanda, a catastrophic mass slaughter which claimed 850,000 lives in three months. Ten years later, Christian reflection must focus on the role Rwandan Christians played in the swiftest and in some ways most brutal genocide of the 20th century.
Rwanda was the most heavily Christianized country in Africa.
ZenTiger , if you like. Cooking the figures is the least of the churches wrongs.
Still trying to work out how pasting an article about how the Catholic Church counts its members “puts you in the same company as pedophiles.”… Oh wait !!! …Now I get it. The Catholic Church is the worlds biggest organised child sex ring. I guess that was your point.
One day a mime is visiting the zoo and attempts to
earn some money as a street performer. As soon as he
starts to draw a crowd, the zoo keeper grabs him and
drags him into his office.
The zoo keeper explains to the mime that the zoo’s most
popular attraction, a gorilla, died suddenly and the
keeper fears that attendance at the zoo will fall off.
He offers the mime a job to dress up as the gorilla
until they can get another one. The mime accepts.
So the next morning before the crowd arrives the mime
puts on the gorilla suit and enters the cage. He
discovers that it’s a great job. He can sleep all he
wants, play and make fun of people and he draws larger
crowds than he ever did as a mime on the street.
However, eventually the crowd tires of him and he tires
of just swinging on auto tires. He notices that the
people are paying more attention to the lion in the
next cage. Not wanting to lose the attention of his
audience, he climbs to the top of his cage, crawls
across a partition, and dangles from the top of the
lion’s cage. Of course, this makes the lion furious,
but the crowd loves it. At the end of the day the zoo
keeper comes and gives the mime a raise for being such
a good attraction.
Well, this goes on for some time, the mime keeps
taunting the lion, the crowd grows larger, and his
salary keeps going up.
Then one day when he is dangling over the top of the
lion’s cage, he slips and falls. The mime is terrified.
The lion raises himself up and prepares to pounce. The
mime is so scared that he begins to run around the cage
with the lion in hot pursuit.
Finally, the mime starts screaming and yelling, “Help!
The lion is quick and pounces. The mime soon finds
himself flat on his back looking up at the angry lion.
The lion says, “Shut up, you idiot or we’ll both lose
Anyone got the RIP code? For the first time I’m going to use it on Kea. I didn’t even use it on philu, that’s how bad Kea is.
Johnboy 7:12 what I don’t understand about guns is, why does anyone pay anything at all? I mean, it’s a gun. If you just casually slip in a few shells while you’re inspecting it and walk away, what’s anyone going to do about it?
Lucy, I know it is hard facing the reality of what your religion does. If I was you, I would admit the wrongs, (most christians actually do) and keep the faith. Most of the wrongs occur because people like you excuse and minimise wrong doing. If you want your church to shine then call a spade a spade. It does not require you to abandon your faith.
Johnboy, there used to be lots of small gun making shops in England with varying degrees of quality. It is probably hand made, but beyond doing a google search, it is hard to say its value. Are the bores in good nick ?
Lucia even philu used to say some insightful things. The only thing I’ve ever read from Kea I agree with him on is Syria, but that’s not insightful because I was on to that long before Kea started spreading his lies and poison round here so IMO, s/he’s a complete waste of space as well as being offensive. I can tolerate ignorance but I don’t tolerate arrogance very well, and s/he’s the very definition of both of those.
Not bad at all Kea. Good engraving on the metalwork. Some nicks on the woodwork. Old and well used I suspect. I agree with what you say regarding small gun making shops. Spent three hours searching the net with no result. Threw out a few enquiries to other gun nuts. Will keep searching on the web.
It’s someone whose blog, which is now deleted, contained a high proportion of obsessive posts about me. That same person has also been banned from my blog, and I hardly ban anyone. I might have banned one other person, and I now let him comment again, just to show how lenient I can be.
Yeah. Well, do what you need to do. I won’t hold it against you.
Pontificating as usual. It may surprise you to know that I am very aware of the failings of Christians over the last two millenia. Even the saints had failings. However, I know that whatever the problems of Christianity (due to sinful humanity), it beats anything else by leaps and bounds.
To suggest my views on Syria were informed by the ranting of a god addled conspiracy theorist and were not formed independently.
No I didn’t suggest that at all, Kea, I wasn’t talking about you, I was talking about me, as in, you haven’t ever given me anything on Syria that I didn’t already know from my independent reading. I wasn’t saying anything whatsoever about you, in any way.
And herein lies your problem, at the heart of your offensiveness, which is you misinterpret things people say, like Lucia’s comments earlier and this just now, and then you go running off onto your own highway of mentalism, shouting and screaming and blathering on and on and on like a moron, when all the time it’s YOU who have misinterpreted the comment. But you can’t admit it, or you won’t admit it, and I predict you won’t admit you just got me wrong, either. And herein lies the reason I’m RIPping you Kea, because I can accept people make mistakes like that, but you do it all the time, this is your modus operandi. Plus you never admit it. Plus you take extraordinary offence at YOUR OWN MISINTERPRETATION.
It’s quite ironic you’re a strong defender of Muslims (as I am too BTW), because in many ways, the fanaticism you display on here is just what the extremist faction in the Muslim psyche displays. The only difference is, they know they’re fanatics, but you don’t.
Lucy, so why not just admit those wrong doings, when I raise them. You really could do a far better job arguing your position. I have heard many christians apologists and they do not take the position you do. The best one I have heard was a bumper sticker: Christians are not perfect, they are just forgiven.
You also need to understand that I am not an atheist in order to make some sort of statement or to upset Christians. Many of my friends are religious. Some very much so. I have no desire to remove what comfort that may provide them, but think them misguided. As they do me. I do have wider concerns about religion generally. My opposition is because I care about people and see the harm religion does. Many believers take the same view. They love god but do not like organised religion.
Reid, WHY DO CONSPIRACY THEORIST LOVE THE CAPS LOCK ?
So what if you knew about Syria ! Do contributors have to check with you before posting their opinions, just in case “you” already knew ? Get over yourself.
You will be hard pressed to see me claiming “offense” as you claim. I have said a number of times that I do not believe there is such a thing as “offense” only restricting on freedom of expression. Which is clearly the sort of thing you approve of. RIP away dipshit
The sooner Nonu fucks off to France the better. Five yellow cards in one season — all for shoulder charges. He has been around long enough to learn but appears incapable of realising the pressure he puts on his team-mates. The super teams have had a gutsful. Time now for Hansen to tell him to shove off.
Kea, you are a bigoted arrogant lying arsehole.
I thought at one stage you were worth talking to – but after tonite’s onslaught of lies, half truths and misquotes I’m ignoring you – like I do Penny Dim.
Lucia, I am not sure what you consider a “win” but I am more concerned with facts. And stop playing the victim. The other day there was a solid 12 hours of bigotry and hate spewed towards Muslims. I posted a fairly mild comment at days end pointing out a double standard and was instantly labelled “obsessive” and the usual troll bullshit. This demonstrates a low level of self awareness and reasonableness from Christians. The most blatant hypocrisy is seen as reasonable and pointing it out instantly results in a personal attack, because they have nothing else. It pains me to have to point out something so dam obvious.
Lucia, if you’re still here, would be good to get your views on a recent comment from the pope a few days ago, in which he was reported to have said something along the lines of it’s OK if you don’t believe in God, as long as you live a good moral life according to your conscience, God will forgive you.
It’s just that seems to me to go against Mat 37-38 or at least not be in accord with it and I was wondering if he was misreported or if you have any additional info, or any thoughts on it.
Reid can just ignore Mat 37-38, just like he ignores the directions to stone to death non virgin brides, homos, adulterers, rape victims and kill naughty kids and people who work on Sundays. Instructions on how badly you can beat your slaves and rather a lot else. So against all that why fuss over Mat 37-38
Reid, my 2 cents worth: The comments were in a newspaper, and therefore, unlikely to be completely accurate – there may have been other sentences uttered that were edited out, for example. I’ll hunt around for the Vatican’s response, if there is any.
He said something along the lines of: “You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.”
All he is doing is affirming that God’s mercy has no limits, if you go to him…
I suggest even those that don’t believe, will ultimately stand before him, and at that point, they’ll have to re-adjust their beliefs. Forgiveness is one thing though, and getting to heaven another – purgatory etc…
I’d also suggest that the last part of the quote can be misread. He had also said in that article something along the lines of “sin exists”, and the moral relativism practiced by today’s liberals is not a get out of jail free.
If that’s the comment I’m thinking of, he’s kinda technically right, but given his style as very off the cuff, the statement ended up needing a lot of clarification. I’ll look it up tomorrow, but remind me if I forget.