More female Ministers in Afghanistan

September 17th, 2013 at 11:00 am by David Farrar

That is the headlines in Australia, after announced a 19 person Cabinet with just one female Minister in it. Afghanistan has three! NZ by comparison has six.

This to me shows the importance of making sure you have some diversity with your candidates, and this needs to start in opposition. It is too late once you are in Government as generally new MPs won’t become Ministers immediately.

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63 Responses to “More female Ministers in Afghanistan”

  1. kowtow (8,469 comments) says:

    Diversity is a non sense ,it’s progressive smoke and mirrors.

    Competence is the issue.Not colour,gender or whatever latest fad is being pushed.

    Afghanistan has more females ministers and they don’t have a functioning government,but that’s OK as they are diverse?

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  2. dubya (235 comments) says:

    “I owe nothing to women’s lib”.

    Guess who said that. And achieved more than the lot of them combined.

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  3. gravedodger (1,566 comments) says:

    Classic media move to fill a vacuum.

    One of Abbott’s stated aims borrowed from Malcom Frazer, get politics off the front page.

    I understand there is no truth in the rumour that Hansen is seeking a beefy hooker from K road in the interests of gender balance.

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  4. Doctor Who (52 comments) says:

    We all need a woman telling us what to do. Yeah, right!

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  5. berend (1,709 comments) says:

    Media calling for quotas?

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  6. Weihana (4,537 comments) says:

    kowtow (5,193) Says:
    September 17th, 2013 at 11:04 am

    Competence is the issue

    And women in general are just not competent in your view? :)

    Perhaps those who judge competence are not blessed with perception free from bias.

    Afghanistan has more females ministers and they don’t have a functioning government

    And is that because they have female ministers?

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  7. Ed Snack (1,872 comments) says:

    Typical media issue, it is far more important that we have a queer Asian finance minister (FYI, a Labor description of Senator Wong in Australia) than we have a competent finance minister.

    Truly, the world has gone to the dogs when this becomes a statement of fact rather than one of incredulity.

    Perhaps the problem with finding enough “suitable” women MPs is that most women are insufficiently dishonest for the role, although somehow I doubt that. Perhaps less willing to be so publicly dishonest ?

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  8. Ian McK (237 comments) says:

    Appoint on ability, not sexuality. Cunliffe will need to appease transgender, homosexual, lesbian, and whatever other deviants the party attracts . . . he has no show. Good on Abbott, not being dictated to by reprobates.

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  9. Harriet (4,969 comments) says:

    Women in general don’t benefit from quotas!

    The South African police has female and black quotas – and a rapeing rate of over 100,000 women!

    Abbott is putting ability first so that NO Australian women becomes the VICTIM of FEMINIST incompetance! :cool:

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  10. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,903 comments) says:

    Well woopty doo doo. I don’t think he has any one legged lesbian dwarfs in his ministry either but if you look very hard you’ll probably find one, in some government, somewhere in the world.

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  11. James Stephenson (2,177 comments) says:

    Abbott is putting ability first so that…

    Yeah, nah. Abbott has to give precedence to representation for both parties in his coalition, house of reps vs senate, each of the states and then no doubt wet & dry factions. Gender comes a way down the list.

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  12. BlairM (2,339 comments) says:

    Thatcher never appointed a woman to cabinet, so I can’t say I’m bothered. If the talent isn’t there it isn’t there.

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  13. gump (1,647 comments) says:

    Abbott has faced criticism in the past for perceived misogyny.

    This really doesn’t help to dispel that perception.

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  14. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    The newly arrived Doctor Who seems to have a pathological hatred of women with an overwhelming need to denigrate them and question their collective intelligence.

    I recommend counseling for your problem. You’ll be a much happier person

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  15. Ed Snack (1,872 comments) says:

    Abbott basically had three experienced and arguably competent women potentially on his team, one one of those has probably lost her bid for re-election. He has promoted some younger talent.

    However, looking at it, the full Afghani cabinet (President and the ministry) is 25, of whom 3 are women. The Australian cabinet of all ministers is 30, of whom 5 are women. To me, 5 out of 30 is a larger fraction than 3 out of 25, but perhaps that’s just me being too focussed on the actual numbers and not on the MSM media meme about Abbott being a misogynist.

    Isn’t it time we got past this foolish obsession with seeming and appearance and focus on doing and competence ? It’s all very well and makjes for nice, easy media reporting, sure, but in the adult world surely ability should be the determinant ?

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  16. Weihana (4,537 comments) says:

    Harriet (2,433) Says:
    September 17th, 2013 at 11:31 am

    Women in general don’t benefit from quotas!

    DPF – “This to me shows the importance of making sure you have some diversity with your candidates”

    I don’t see where DPF is calling for quotas. Simply stating that diversity is important.

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  17. Redbaiter (8,823 comments) says:

    “This to me shows the importance of making sure you have some diversity with your candidates, and this needs to start in opposition.”

    Mr Farrar, you really need to wake up to what divisive Marxist crap this really is, and also be a bit more critical of your mainstream media friends.

    Aren’t bloggers meant to provide a welcome alternative to the progressive views favoured by the mainstream media?

    They will do anything they can to attack Abbot and his government, and this is just the start of it. I am baffled as to why anyone calling themselves center right would want to take this fake politically partisan criticism any further.

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  18. kowtow (8,469 comments) says:

    “……diversity is important.”

    No it isn’t.

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  19. Odakyu-sen (651 comments) says:

    To appoint someone based solely on their gender would surely be a sexist and discriminatory act?

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  20. GJKiwi (175 comments) says:

    What an interesting load of bollocks! Redbaiter, Kowtow, etc, do you talk to the women in your lives like this? The issue is that, at electoral level, not as many women are appointed as candidates, and therefore they don’t get elected. Therefore, it is nothing to do with competency, it is the fact that they simply don’t get chosen. Possibly because they aren’t as aggressive as males. However, try telling the National women MPs that they’re not as competent as the men, which is the implication here, or that Ruth Richardson, Jenny Shipley or Helen Clark, or that they weren’t competent as ministers. Women are just as competent as men in almost all roles they choose to work in, with the exception of jobs where it requires physical strength. Women outdo men in most educational outcomes now, and yet, for some unknown reason, they aren’t represented in Government in the percentages as men. I would love to see you guys take this issue up with right or left wing women. Its as if you come from the times of cavemen! And DPF wasn’t talking just about women. He was talking about diversity, of which the gender balance is just one example.

    BlairM: Thatcher probably isn’t the best example of open-mindedness and fairness that I’ve ever seen. Not somebody I’d be proud to idolise.

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  21. nickb (3,687 comments) says:

    So what? Given politicans are, after all, entrusted with running our country and protecting life and liberty I would prefer a meritocracy over tokenism any day. The latter produces numerous incompetents and lunatics like Hekia Parata, Sue Moroney, Tau Henare to name but a fraction. Not exactly the brains’ trust.

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  22. lesterpk (27 comments) says:

    Afghanistan has 3 because their constitution requires a quota of women. 25% in the lower house and 17% in the upper.
    The two highest women in the ballot get seats no matter what their overall vote is.

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  23. GJKiwi (175 comments) says:

    kowtow (5,196) Says:
    September 17th, 2013 at 12:26 pm
    “……diversity is important.”

    “No it isn’t.”

    Can we get rid of you first then?

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  24. GJKiwi (175 comments) says:

    nickb (2,689) Says:
    September 17th, 2013 at 12:41 pm
    “Not exactly the brains’ trust.”
    And you are?? LOL

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  25. Kea (12,834 comments) says:

    The message here is clearly that people should be appointed on gender not ability. Just like they do in Afghanistan ! Idiots.

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  26. Ed Snack (1,872 comments) says:

    GJKiwi, nicely played strawmen, but why not criticize people for what they actually say, not what you’d like to think they said. I know it is harder, but it does help in having a rational conversation, if you’re interested in that, which based on your frothings to date, I rather doubt.

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  27. Harriet (4,969 comments) says:

    Ted Cruz WILL win. :cool:

    “…….A ludicrous attempt to paint him as a misogynist by the previous Labor leader and Prime Minister Julia Gillard was rightly laughed to scorn. He has taken over a disunited and demoralized Liberal Party, unified it, and led it to a crushing victory.

    As Melanie Phillips put it: “He has faced down the intellectual thuggery and demonization by the Left.”

    Although the left have attacked Abbott with a full battery of slanders, including the nickname “The mad monk” and a ludicrous charge that as a student he once punched a wall near a feminist student politician, no one has been able to credibly suggest that he lacks integrity.

    In the words of Mark Steyn: “We’re not talking about a Cameronesque trimmer and opportunist here.”

    …….the lesson of the two campaigns of Abbott and Romney may be that for conservatives in Anglomorph countries, to be combative is to be electable.”

    Told ya Cruz will win. :cool:

    http://spectator.org/archives/2013/09/16/a-winner-heard-round-the-world

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  28. GJKiwi (175 comments) says:

    Kea (7,545) Says:
    September 17th, 2013 at 12:49 pm
    “The message here is clearly that people should be appointed on gender not ability. Just like they do in Afghanistan ! Idiots.”

    No the message here is that people of all types have abilities, and often different abilities. Some people aren’t as pushy as others and aren’t represented in Government. It would appear that Tony Abbott doesn’t respect the abilities of women as much as men, that is all, whereas other people do. In general, women are as competent as men. However, they are often not as pushy and so don’t rise to the top, particularly in politics. In a different society, people of ability are represented, not because they are pushy, but because their abilities are recognised. What you’re saying is that women are incompetent, which is obviously not true, as I pointed out above. I certainly wouldn’t tell the women in my life that they were incompetent. Making the life of politics more open to more people means you get a better range of abilities, not people without competency being appointed.

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  29. Gulag1917 (916 comments) says:

    Look a the damage done with the help of women in the last government. Emotion and gender over competency.

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  30. kowtow (8,469 comments) says:

    GJkiwi

    I never suggested that no women should be appointed.

    I would have no problem if a whole cabinet was female,if they were competent.

    That would not be diverse and nor would that be a problem.

    By the way the term “Cavemen” in the negative context you used it is sexist ,derogatory and offensive. That is inappropriate ,in addition to being inappropriate the term “caveman” also fails to recognise the contribution females made to cave society. Caveperson is the correct usage these days.

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  31. GJKiwi (175 comments) says:

    Odakyu-sen (71) Says:
    September 17th, 2013 at 12:39 pm
    “To appoint someone based solely on their gender would surely be a sexist and discriminatory act?”

    Indeed, but most people who are elected (but not all, of course) are as competent as the others in parliament, in that they have been elected by the people. That is the only legal qualification that I know of that makes someone competent to be a minister of the crown. Some people, e.g. Peter Dunne, have been appointed because it is politically expedient. It would seem that is the case for most ministers of the crown. Not much to do with their ability to fulfil their jobs. Most rely on advice from their various ministries.

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  32. Bob R (1,374 comments) says:

    *** NZ by comparison has six.***

    I think Abbott is to be applauded for going with who he thinks are the best people, even knowing the results in this case will outrage the Cultural Marxists.

    National has had to tolerate someone in the Education Portfolio who is clearly only there because of identity politics. I would have thought Kiwiblog would support meritocracy, not gender quotas.

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  33. Gulag1917 (916 comments) says:

    Julie Bishop is worth six women.

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  34. Sector 7g (242 comments) says:

    The left showed how tolerant they are to women in politics when Sarah Palin ran for Vice President.
    They don’t have a leg to stand regarding how the right treat women.

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  35. Redbaiter (8,823 comments) says:

    Men have righted the Costa Concordia

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/16/costa-concordia-livestream_n_3934025.html

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  36. Gulag1917 (916 comments) says:

    Whether there are women in cabinet or not is not even being discussed amongst rank and file Australians. It is only being discussed by the agitating, disgruntled and failed government types.

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  37. GJKiwi (175 comments) says:

    kowtow: I was referring merely to the fact that most of those against diversity in this particular forum seem to be male, hence the term caveman. If you’re correcting my terminology, perhaps cave-dwellers might be apt. One thing that seems to happen though is that when people are appointed to junior positions, they gain competency. So, one might imagine that in appointing a few more women to junior positions, they would gain the competency that you so highly admire. I would suggest that, viewing all those in parliament at present the women are as equally competent as the men, and it would be a brave or foolhardy person who would suggest otherwise. Likewise, in the Australian parliament, I would suggest the case is the same there, so why has he not appointed more women? You may think otherwise.

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  38. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    Abbott has faced criticism in the past for perceived misogyny.

    Only by his political opponents in a desperate attempt to smear him.  It is a smear that the ALP invented and perpetuated all by itself (like Kea does here on KB), one that has no basis in actual fact (again, much like Kea’s smears here on KB).

    Shaping one’s actions to answer the smear tactics of opponents is to surrender to the basest kind of politics, the kind of politics that the ALP spent 4 years engaging in.  The NZ Labour Party alos tried smear tactics prior to the 2008 election, and look where it got them.

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  39. Bob R (1,374 comments) says:

    ***Likewise, in the Australian parliament, I would suggest the case is the same there, so why has he not appointed more women? You may think otherwise.***

    @ GJKiwi,

    Do you think Hekia Parata would have remained Minister of Education if she was a male? You can’t have a meritocratic system if you’re also trying to meet some arbitrary gender/race quota.

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  40. GJKiwi (175 comments) says:

    Sector 7g: really. What about the fact that Hillary Clinton was nearly voted in as the US Presidential candidate? She is rather more competent that Sarah Palin will ever be. Sarah Palin, the woman who is in the far-right of American politics, but can’t even run her own state properly. Hillary might have been the next have made it had she run at a time when there wasn’t someone who was better at political organisation, namely Barack Obama. Of course, if you really want incompetency, you need look no further than G.W. Bush.

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  41. Gulag1917 (916 comments) says:

    The anti-Liberal coalition are jumping the gun. Hardly 24 hours and the knives are out.

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  42. Kea (12,834 comments) says:

    ” In general, women are as competent as men. However, they are often not as pushy “

    GJKiwi , thanks for the gender stereotype and I compliment your un PC style. But that statement is bullshit. Have you actually met any women or are you more of a mans-man ?

    ” What you’re saying is that women are incompetent,”

    GJKiwi, no I did not say that or in anyway imply it. Can you show me where I said that or are you lying to set up straw men/womin/persons ? Show me where I said that and I will correct my mistake asap.

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  43. GJKiwi (175 comments) says:

    Bob R (1,142) Says:
    September 17th, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    “Do you think Hekia Parata would have remained Minister of Education if she was a male? You can’t have a meritocratic system if you’re also trying to meet some arbitrary gender/race quota.”

    @Bob R: you are taking her as the one example of an incompetent minister. Shall we go through all the incompetent men as well? Peter Dunne, for a start. However, Hekia Parata has a competency you lack. She is a member of parliament, the only competency that is required. Peter Dunne only has that because a very large number of National Supporters in his electorate voted for him to prop up the National Party. He’s not there because he’s a good minister either.

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  44. Kea (12,834 comments) says:

    Seems GJKiwi’s concern for womin and their abilities does not extend to Sarah Palin :)

    Though he tried to make up for his misogyny by praising a black guy. Remember, this is the guy who took issue with me suggesting womin should be appointed on their ABILITIES.

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  45. GJKiwi (175 comments) says:

    Kea: “The message here is clearly that people should be appointed on gender not ability. Just like they do in Afghanistan ! Idiots.”

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  46. Bob R (1,374 comments) says:

    @ GJKiwi,

    That doesn’t rebut my point: if you’re going to insist on some form of racial or gender quotas then it will be at the cost of meritocracy.

    I agree about Dunne, but doesn’t alter the point above. Nor is it an argument for adopting the Cultural Marxist identity politics approach when it increases the risk of being stuck with an incompetent minister.

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  47. Kea (12,834 comments) says:

    GJKiwi, yes that is what I said. Clearly I do not approve. You are the one who thinks women should be appointed on gender [because they are "less pushy"] except for Sarah Palin, then you change your tune again.

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  48. Sector 7g (242 comments) says:

    Gjkiwi- sorry for mentioning Palin, really gets the tolerant left frothing. Your comment is rendered null and void when it is pointed out that the hatred and intolerance was spat out before Palin had said a word.

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  49. s.russell (1,642 comments) says:

    I agree with many posts above that Cabinet should be appointed on ability above all. Abbot may have done that (I cannot judge as I do not know enough about Aussie politicians). But greater diversity IS also a good thing to have, if you can have it without compromising on the ability criteria.

    The point DPF was making was not that more should have been appointed in despite of ability, but to criticise the party for not recruiting more women with the necessary ability over the past few elections so that more could have been in Cabinet now.

    And that in turn is not just a plea for diversity for its own sake. It is a damnation of the Liberal Party for failing to tap a major source of talent. I believe, and I hope others above do too, that there ARE plenty of able women out there. So why are not more of them being bought in to the political ranks?

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  50. Harriet (4,969 comments) says:

    “…..And that in turn is not just a plea for diversity for its own sake. It is a damnation of the Liberal Party for failing to tap a major source of talent…..”

    I live in Aus.

    Women who join the Liberal party at state and federal levels are constantly attacked by the MSM and Labour/greens.

    Then, like now, when women don’t step forward to join the Liberals out of fear, the left then accuse the liberals of shitting on women!

    They constantly attacked Sophie Mirabella over the last 3 yrs and she has just lost her seat by a few hundred votes. Yet she was very capable in the Abbott shadow cabinet…..go figure!

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  51. Weihana (4,537 comments) says:

    lesterpk (26) Says:
    September 17th, 2013 at 12:47 pm

    Afghanistan has 3 because their constitution requires a quota of women. 25% in the lower house and 17% in the upper.
    The two highest women in the ballot get seats no matter what their overall vote is.

    Given the widespread discrimination against women, and the treatment of them as inferiors which can mean that a girl going to school is at risk of being killed, is a quota a good idea under such circumstances? How could anyone truly expect women to be judged on merit in such a society? Indeed what does “merit” mean in a society that views women as subservient and inferior?

    Australia is by no means Afghanistan. But is Western society free from bias? Do we not have our own gender stereotypes that colours how we view people? Even GJKiwi, apparently arguing in favour of increased diversity, proffers a gender stereotype that women are not pushy (come to my house and say that! :) ). If these stereotypes are so ingrained in us how can we expect our perception of “merit” to be free from such biased judgment?

    There are various tests in life that are fairly objective. We don’t assess a math exam based on someone’s gender, for instance. But the decision of structuring a political party is highly subjective and so the argument that such decisions should be based on “merit” are arguably just the means by which prejudices and stereotypes are perpetuated.

    Quotas are a dumb idea, but simple consideration of diversity is not a bad idea, if not simply to ensure that one is surrounded by people who have a diverse set of experiences from which to draw upon.

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  52. Harriet (4,969 comments) says:

    “……but simple consideration of diversity is not a bad idea, if not simply to ensure that one is surrounded by people who have a diverse set of experiences from which to draw upon……”

    Yes…..a bit too much of a simple consideration from a women like you Weihana! :cool:

    Labour is CHOC FUCKEN FULL OF WOMEN ON BOTH SIDES OF THE TASMAN – and all are SURROUNED BY PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO DIVERSE SETS OF EXPERIANCE FROM WHICH TO DRAW UPON!

    That’s the problem Weihana – you all wank on about ‘diversity’ and of nothing else that really matters – like having the people around you with the ability to grasp a fucken propblem and solve it!

    But all the same Weihana, keep trying….. don’t give up. :cool:

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  53. kowtow (8,469 comments) says:

    So why are not more being brought into the political ranks?

    That’s sexist. That reveals an attitude that some greater power must be invoked to make things better /ideal/utopian or that the situation as it exists is not right.The EU is going down that road.And EU electorates are getting increasingly frustrated by it.

    I have no doubt that there are plenty of competent women out there but they chose not to be involved.

    Surely that’s what this is about ,choice. They chose to run or not and the state ,parties etc should not get involved in social engineering because progressives want to see the “correct” mix.

    Someone raised the Afghan constitution,good example of a pointless exercise in wimmins rights exercised no doubt by the paying powers who will soon be ousted by the Taliban once the troops leave.

    Who determines what is correct?

    The same thing is happening with maori appointments to boards etc.That’s based on race.And is also wrong.

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  54. Bazar (37 comments) says:

    Thought i’d just throw this in, since the topic of female mps in afghan was raised.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2389296/First-woman-Afghan-MP-Noor-Zia-Atmar-says-womens-rights-increasingly-ignored.html

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  55. Steve (North Shore) (4,561 comments) says:

    Maybe female Australians are just not that bright? They should be there on merit, not a percentage

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  56. gump (1,647 comments) says:

    @GJKiwi

    “Redbaiter, Kowtow, etc, do you talk to the women in your lives like this? ”

    ———————-

    I would politely suggest that Redbaiter and Kowtow don’t have women in their lives.

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  57. nasska (11,501 comments) says:

    They do gump….it’s just that they have to inflate them every night. :)

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  58. Redbaiter (8,823 comments) says:

    Gosh, leftist cowards smearing people again.

    How surprising.

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  59. edhunter (546 comments) says:

    Guaranteed there will be more women inside cabinet come next election, & lets be honest (because the media wont) Tony hasn’t pulled any surprises here, he’s rewarded a loyal, united stable shadow cabinet for doing exactly what he asked them to do for the past 3yrs, fuck Labour cant go 3 days without someone throwing their toys out of the cot.

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  60. Odakyu-sen (651 comments) says:

    Thought experiment: “Diversity reduces diversity.”

    BEFORE
    Town A (with 3 restaurants, each serving ethnic food A)
    Town B (with 3 restaurants, each serving ethnic food B)
    Town C (with 3 restaurants, each serving ethnic food C)

    AFTER
    Town A (with 3 restaurants, one serving ethnic food A, one B and one serving food C)
    Town B (with 3 restaurants, one serving ethnic food A, one B and one serving food C)
    Town C (with 3 restaurants, one serving ethnic food A, one B and one serving food C)

    Now, all the towns are more “diverse, but are they not all the same?

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  61. Kea (12,834 comments) says:

    Odakyu-sen , correct. Sameness is the opposite of diversity. The people claiming to embrace diversity are really demanding that we all be the same. They demand women hold political office, even if they don’t want to. Because that is their version of what freedom looks like.

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  62. Andronicus (219 comments) says:

    If the Abbott cabinet was chosen on merit then it demonstrates what most Australians know: the Liberal women are a bunch of incompetents.

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  63. Odakyu-sen (651 comments) says:

    “The people claiming to embrace diversity are really demanding that we all be the same.”

    “Sameness through diversity, eh!” I think I’m having an Eric Arthur Blair moment…

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