The earth, moon and stars

September 2nd, 2013 at 11:00 am by David Farrar

Stuff reports:

Cunliffe said that he was going to deliver “the basics for families”.

“You know, it is easy for a politician to promise the earth, moon and stars. To say that everyone will have a job tomorrow and a . That is what I want and I won’t settle for less.”

Umm, I’d say that is promising the earth, moon and stars.

Putting aside the economic contradiction of promising a massive increases in wages, and more jobs, what Cunliffe and Robertson are pledging is a hoax.

Can they name one country on earth which has full employment?

And note that the living wage pledge has now shifted from people working for Government and contracting to Government, to a living wage for everyone. Everyday their policies move further to the left. The Greens will soon be seen as more centrist than Labour at this rate.

When do they start pledging they also want everyone to live to be 100?

Tracy Watkins warns that their pork barrel promises may make them unelectable:

Labour’s leadership hopefuls should be wary of losing the war to win the battle.

The pork barrel style campaigning of the first two days of their leadership roadshow may or may not give one of them an edge over their rivals among the party faithful. But it goes without saying that the delegates who get to decide the next Labour leader are not the voters Labour needs to reach out to in 2014 to win the next election. To win back those swinging voters, Labour needs to grow its support in the political centre. With the exception of wild card Shane Jones, however, this leadership race has been all about the two main candidates, Grant Robertson and David Cunliffe,  racing to shore up their credentials on the Left. If they are not careful, the underdog Jones will steal a march on both of them. While his rivals have their gaze turned inward, he is reaching out over both of them to appeal to the voters who aren’t card carrying Labour members. And his smoko room politics and harking back to old fashioned Labour values are far more likely to resonate with the wider public.

I used to think Jones would get say 5% only, but I’d say he is picking up significant support, so that no candidate will win on first preferences. It will come down to who his supporters rank second.

The first day on the hustings had the candidates vying to gazump each other on policy including a living wage, repealing the Government’s industrial relations law changes, a Pacifica TV channel, raise taxes on the wealthy,  regulate food prices and raise the minimum wage.

Oh I missed the TV channel!

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70 Responses to “The earth, moon and stars”

  1. dime (9,796 comments) says:

    “raise taxes on the wealthy”

    why do they think the labour base is so spiteful?

    are 30-40% of the country actually like that? Tax the “rich” just because they can?

    i guess they are the party of low aspirations but i find it a bit sad

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  2. vibenna (305 comments) says:

    New Zealand had full employment under Helen Clark. With unemployment at 3.8%, that was effectively full employment – it was clear at the time that the remaining unemployment was entirely lifestyle related or frictional. Everyone who wanted a job could get one.

    It surprised the hell out of me. I didn’t believe their policies would work. But the facts speak otherwise.

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  3. Rich Prick (1,666 comments) says:

    Dear MSM

    We don’t really care about Labour’s internal machinations for leadership. Just tell us when it is over and who turned out to be the least hated.

    Thanks, RP.

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  4. dime (9,796 comments) says:

    “It surprised the hell out of me. I didn’t believe their policies would work. But the facts speak otherwise.”

    it was amazing! especially considering the world economy was dong so poorly….

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  5. burt (8,201 comments) says:

    DPF

    They (Labour muppets) have failed to notice after multiple attempts in multiple countries that socialism always fails… Why do you think they will suddenly acknowledge reality when they are fighting for a fat pay rise and absolute power for themselves ?

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  6. Evadne (88 comments) says:

    Have we strayed into some bizarre Truman Show-style live comedy? You couldn’t write a funnier script.

    But the question remains: are Cunliffe & Robertson a> delusional b> liars or c> stupid?

    Or has the role of Labour leader been changed to “dictator” complete with the ancient divine right of kings?

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  7. Sir Cullen's Sidekick (872 comments) says:

    Yes DPF, Pacifica channel. Now why not Chinese channel, Indian channel, Middle East channel, Korean channel….the list goes on…

    Dime – Taxing the rich pricks is a Labour envy policy. Every single joker who wants to lead Labour has to announce the “rich prick tax” so that their mediocre, jealous supporters can cheer.

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  8. burt (8,201 comments) says:

    vibenna

    New Zealand had full employment under Helen Clark.

    Yes… and we had a recession before the rest of the world when the artificial “economy” of adding people to the public service to pretend they were employed fell flat on it’s face – as it always does….

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  9. Redbaiter (8,350 comments) says:

    Amazing as it is, I agree with DPF and think the chinless pornwatcher is probably the best of the bunch. Which tells you where Labour is really doesn’t it?

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  10. nostrils (53 comments) says:

    I understand that Shane Jones is to promise a free-to-air Porn channel available to all…….

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  11. burt (8,201 comments) says:

    vibenna

    It surprised the hell out of me. I didn’t believe their policies would work. But the facts speak otherwise.

    The facts…. That National caused the recession even when they came into office about a year after it started …

    That is pretty typical for labour “facts” – bring them out a few years after the truth and pretend they are real…

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  12. Ross12 (1,388 comments) says:

    I think Cunliffe is a “closet” Green.

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  13. Alan (1,087 comments) says:

    It’s just primary politics froth; run to the base now and moderate towards the centre for the General Election.

    Most of what they are saying now, will be rephrased / downgraded to “aspirations” later on and never executed until “circumstances allow / the time is right”, which of course is never.

    Policy in office is driven by economic realities. Labour ran a surplus in every year under Clark remember.

    I wouldn’t pay too much attention to any of what’s being said right now.

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  14. burt (8,201 comments) says:

    Alan

    Labour ran a surplus in every year under Clark remember.

    Yes we remember. we remember the excessive taxation (in 2008 $60k was rich right !) and we remember that personal debt went through the roof because people (remember people…) had all their money hovered up by the state to repay it’s debt.

    Do you really think it’s better for the state to be debt free to avoid it’s 2-3% finance costs while individuals need to borrow money at 15%+ ?

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  15. alex (302 comments) says:

    I guess it depends on whether you think it is good or bad that the country is becoming more unequal every year.

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  16. dime (9,796 comments) says:

    “I guess it depends on whether you think it is good or bad that the country is becoming more unequal every year.”

    im good with it.

    maybe in another 10 years people will realise they cant rely in the glorious state to provide and that they actually have to do something with heir lives

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  17. burt (8,201 comments) says:

    This thread reminds me of the Labour campaign in 2011… Remember the video where glorious Labour made the people wealthy and then suddenly we had a nasty National government… Over and over… It (like the supporter sheeple) never once looked at why National always came in during bad times … they never stopped to remind people that Labour policy always ends badly … just before they are voted out….

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  18. Colville (2,254 comments) says:

    Ross12… You think Cunners is a closet queen? what makes you say that?

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  19. PaulL (5,947 comments) says:

    Is US primary style campaigning a good idea (and when did Labour start being the party that imported things from the US)?

    I think it has some real benefits, in the US it weeds out candidates who just can’t hack the pace. I doubt Shearer would have gotten up in the framework that Labour now have. It also motivates and invigorates the party organisation, and I think it is important that our democracy has as wide participation as possible.

    Flipside, it does lead to this “move to the extreme then tack to the centre” process. I’m not sure that’s healthy – US politics is divided like no time in history. I think this is driven not just by the primary process, but also by the ability with “new media” to spend your entire life in an echo chamber of people who agree with you, without any exposure to people with different opinions or different ideas. We see this in Australia with Rudd often striking off notes because he’s too distant from real people – he lives in the twitter-verse. I think the primary process exacerbates this, as it provides encouragement to those on the fringes that they are in fact correct, instead of continuing to marginalise them. It’s hard to have one story for the extreme and a different one for the centre.

    Worse than all that, I think the primary process institutionalises lying, and rewards the people who are best at it. The person who best panders to the extremes in a believable way, whilst still maintaining wiggle room to “tack to the centre” is the person who wins. I’m not sure it is healthy.

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  20. Black with a Vengeance (1,787 comments) says:

    hahaha…How’s them, 170 000 jobs coming along on the cycle trail…pfffft?

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  21. Colville (2,254 comments) says:

    Alan @ 11.25.
    Under Klark/Kullen personal debt went thru the roof. Up by 70% ? All those Ma and Pa householders upgrading/upsizing/updebting, business made profits and all was great, the govt hoovered up all that lovely GST and income tax.
    Just indirect additional taxation.

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  22. burt (8,201 comments) says:

    Black with a Vengeance

    It must be fantastic to live in a world where increasing the minimum wage – giving away free houses and telling everyone they will have a job is something you can believe in…

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  23. dime (9,796 comments) says:

    “hahaha…How’s them, 170 000 jobs coming along on the cycle trail…pfffft?”

    Just shows what little ammunition the crazy left have when all they can say over and over again is crap about the cycle trail.

    sad.

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  24. Rivka (8 comments) says:

    My question is to Mr Farrar and asks “Do you ever feel uneasy when you read some of the comments on your website, and do you worry about the sanity and intelligence of the more extreme contributers? If not, shouldn’t you?”

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  25. Black with a Vengeance (1,787 comments) says:

    Just shows what little ammunition the nutjob right have when all they can say over and over again is crap about the Clark years.

    pathetic.

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  26. Harriet (4,794 comments) says:

    “………..New Zealand had full employment under Helen Clark……….”

    Bullshit!!!!!!!

    The number of students doing crap degrees went up – and now they’re either mostly over seas or working in retail.

    And those who did get jobs in areas of their education after uni are either now bludging as public servants or working in the private sector on crap wages – with huge student debt.

    Unless of course you want to argue that those with crap degrees are now all doing oh so very well! :cool:

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  27. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    “…everyone will have a job tomorrow and a living wage. That is what I want and I won’t settle for less.”

    Ok, Cunliffe, you are now on public record.

    Let’s call the day after the election “tomorrow”.
    If you win, then on that day I expect you to have EVERYONE in a job that pays the “living wage”.

    You “won’t settle for less” and *neither will I*.

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  28. dime (9,796 comments) says:

    Rivka – my question to you:

    “Do you ever feel uneasy when you read some of the comments from the potential labour leaders, and do you worry about the sanity and intelligence of them? If not, shouldn’t you?”

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  29. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    Everyone on here talk like it’s still 1985 and still plenty of industry and jobs.

    They don’t have the guts to say that directly though

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  30. Ross12 (1,388 comments) says:

    Colville ” Ross12… You think Cunners is a closet queen? what makes you say that?’

    Closet GREEN is what I said Colville . ( Maybe I could have used a better word than closet)

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  31. KevOB (267 comments) says:

    There is a limit to how much is affordable. Here is a fuller take on the “Living Wage” –

    http://revfelicity.org/2013/02/25/injustice-in-equality-churches-promote-inflation-2/

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  32. jaba (2,120 comments) says:

    at some stage between now and the final “vote”, one of these clowns (not Jones) is going to have to come out (not Robertson) and tell some truths or these promises will come back and bite them on the bum if they win the 2014 election

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  33. Kea (12,041 comments) says:

    Labour have claimed all this closing the gaps and social justice business before. They came into power as the economy boomed right across the Western world. There was never going to be a better time to close the gaps. When NZ finally woke up, the gap between rich and poor had never been greater in our countries history and Labour had spent all the money on unaffordable election bribes.

    Their policies can be described simply as: VOTE FOR LABOUR & GET FREE MONEY

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  34. jaba (2,120 comments) says:

    fuel prices are at an all time high .. will they regulate the oil companies as well as the Supermarkets?

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  35. davidp (3,576 comments) says:

    >“You know, it is easy for a politician to promise the earth, moon and stars. To say that everyone will have a job tomorrow and a living wage. That is what I want and I won’t settle for less.”

    I recall a few years ago when Fidel Castro promised that the Cuban government would give every Cuban woman a free rice cooker. Apparently sixty years worth of socialist “progress” meant that rice cookers were an aspirational luxury good rather than something you buy at the Warehouse for about $20. But I’m distressed than none of the Labour hopefuls have offered free rice cookers for all NZ women. In an increasingly unequal society, only rich women in NZ can afford rice cookers while all Cuban women own rice cookers, even when they are embargoed by the evil US government. All the Labour candidates need to address this inequity. Free rice cookers for NZ women needs to be an election priority for Labour.

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  36. RRM (9,784 comments) says:

    Umm, DPF are you sure you read Cunliffe’s comment in the article correctly? ;-)

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  37. The only red for me is that of Manchester United (60 comments) says:

    The most insulting comment so far was how the three hopeful were going to deliver the “intelletual” dissusion at West Auckland. Not in South Auckland. That’s right, the left dare not want the Pacific Islanders to think for themselves. Just let the boss decide for them.

    Insulting to the extreme.

    I wonder if Robertson has ever been to Invercargill?

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  38. duggledog (1,505 comments) says:

    ‘I guess it depends on whether you think it is good or bad that the country is becoming more unequal every year’

    Alex.

    The way I see it, the reason NZ is becoming ‘more and more unequal’ is because the fable of the ant and the grasshopper is now a reality for many many people.

    All the good folk who had too many children, took on too much debt, didn’t get a job, didn’t work hard, did degrees in modern dance, insisted on having overseas holidays, borrowed from loan sharks, insisted on buying in Auckland, bought late model cars, basically made poor choices, are going to struggle and there’s nothing the state can do for them. We can’t afford the massive state we have now. All the three Labour wankers know that.

    By contrast, ordinary kiwis who have not done the above have prospered. It doesn’t take too much in NZ to have a pretty modest, good life, so long as your expectations aren’t ridiculous. This is why there are millions of immigrants who would do anything to get in here.

    Please name a country you would trade your passport in for. Name one Alex or are you actually Brian Bruce?

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  39. Black with a Vengeance (1,787 comments) says:

    the “intelletual” dissusion

    NIGGUH WHUT ???…hahaha

    genuine fucken lolz dude

    cheers for that!

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  40. Rightandleft (662 comments) says:

    I agree with PaulL that the US primary style leadership race could be damaging to the whole political process. It creates an electoral system which panders to the extremes. Labour swinging to the left is only going to take votes off the Greens, not get them back in government. US voters are very used to their politicians lying to get the base on board in a primary then quickly reversing all their positions for the general election. NZ voters don’t have the same kind of experience with that and are not likely to be as forgiving if the winner suddenly backtracks on everything.

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  41. Black with a Vengeance (1,787 comments) says:

    I’m going to petition the next Labour PM for a better class of right wing nutjob.

    WE DESERVE BETTER!!!

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  42. georgebolwing (769 comments) says:

    I also agree with PaulL. One additional point is that in the US House of Representatives, and also at the State and local level, boundary rigging has tended to make seats increasingly safe for one party or the other. Thus, candidates, once selected by a party, tend to have little to fear from the electorate at large. This is, in part, why elections for president and the senate still tend to attract slightly more centralist candidates, since you have to win both the primary and the at-large vote to gain office, while in the House it is winning the primary that tends to guarantee election. So the House is populated by people who tend to appeal to a narrow range of supporters (party activists who vote in primaries), while presidents and senators are more likely to be people who have to appeal to the electorate at large.

    In New Zealand, with MPP and thus the party vote being the ultimate determinant of who governs, having a leader elected directly by party activists, while the party as a whole faces the whole country with the party vote, is a recipe for disaster.

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  43. Cunningham (837 comments) says:

    Shocking, just shocking! If there wasn’t a chance that these pillacks might get in, it would almost be funny.

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  44. nasska (11,185 comments) says:

    At least you’ll have plenty of time to work on your petition Sooty. With the calibre of current candidates for high office within Labour, National will be government for the next three terms. :)

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  45. Alan (1,087 comments) says:

    ” we remember the excessive taxation (in 2008 $60k was rich right !) ”

    Actually, what I remember under Labour was the excessive spending; taxes matched spending perfectly.

    Under this administration tax take as a percentage of GDP has gone down from 36% to 31% which would be great if there was a matching reduction in spending. There hasn’t.

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  46. Sidey (249 comments) says:

    Making the Greens look like economic geniuses isn’t an easy task, but Labour are onto it.

    Back in the country from Aussie for a while, everywhere you look it’s Labour/Labor promising to throw our money here, there and everywhere. Just as well one isn’t in a position to actually do it, and the other won’t be in a few days. But what do we do for entertainment once the dust settles?

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  47. coge (186 comments) says:

    One thing is for sure. Jones will take more votes from Cunners than Robertson.

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  48. duggledog (1,505 comments) says:

    Still waiting for the country where it’s better to live Alex, where things are more equal…

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  49. Rivka (8 comments) says:

    To Dime:
    Good copy and paste job. Funnily enough I was thinking of you when I asked Mr Farrar: “Do you ever feel uneasy when you read some of the comments from the more extreme contributers, and do you worry about the sanity and intelligence of them? If not, shouldn’t you?”

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  50. maxwell (52 comments) says:

    “………..New Zealand had full employment under Helen Clark……….”

    let’s not forget all those who were shifted off the dole and onto the sickness benefit,
    and the 15,000 extra civil servants

    and Michael Cullen gloating in the house “the cupboards bare, I’ve spent the lot”

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  51. alex (302 comments) says:

    @duggledog – I would never trade in my NZ passport, even if we have huge problems here that are getting worse.

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  52. Fisiani (1,025 comments) says:

    Robertson came up with the idea of interest free loans to students to buy the election in 2005. It worked. He reckoned that every student would vote for it, their parents would vote for it and their grandparents would vote for it.
    For 2014 his idea is to promise everyone who is lowly paid a giant pay rise and a house. Some people will believe that Labour have a magical well full of pixie dust that produces vast amounts of free money. You do have to be gullible to vote Labour. This has to be fought with comedy. to make the concept laughable and ridiculous.

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  53. Black with a Vengeance (1,787 comments) says:

    With the calibre of current candidates for high office within Labour, National will be government for the next three terms.

    The blue cupboards lookin pretty bare eh.

    Definitely some barrell scraping goin on with your incumbent intellectual heavyweights like Brownlee, Bennett, Tolley and Parata.

    hahaha…If they’re the sharpest hammers you got you wont be cutting many nails for long.

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  54. burt (8,201 comments) says:

    Black with a Vengeance

    The blue team don’t promise free money to win elections …. So sure they are possibly more stupid than the red team – because they don’t know how to bribe people with their own money like the red team do….

    Your lot and their policies always ends in recession with National then needing to fix shit up – then your team always cast National as the nasty party when they do that – shit just gets sorted then your team offer bribes … screw it all up again then we repeat the cycle.

    Are you proud of supporting a team who invariably use command and control tactics to root the economy ?

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  55. dime (9,796 comments) says:

    rivka – if you think im “extreme right wing” then you must be crazy left aka a teacher, public servant, loser..

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  56. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    …and the massive hole left in ACC..the list goes on and on and on…liarbor are rotten , incompetent and corrupt.

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  57. Bykmad (21 comments) says:

    I listen and read about the “Promises” being made by the three contestants in “Labour Idol”.
    This scares the shit out of me, because these “Promises” are simply bribes offered in an attempt to become the Leader of the Opposition. What will they stoop to in an attempt to become Prime Minister???????

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  58. Jafa (38 comments) says:

    I was discussing the recent proposed tax increases by Labia (Cunliffe et al whatever) with 3 of my esteemed comrades, oh sorry, I meant colleagues. They could not see that if you increase the top tax rates, then the total tax take decreases and that France and England provide very good reminders of that. They thought the tax take was irrelevant to the discussion and it is all about the ‘rich’ paying their ‘fair’ share! These are people with medical degrees and specialty qualifications so in theory should be able to think their way through that simple concept. The left are stupider than stupid and their doting voters lap up the lies like the Labia party are the second coming. I heard JK on telly say raising the minimum wage to $18/hr would cost $2.5 billion. He forgot to say that this would also cost thousands of jobs and inflation would go through the roof. What is it these people don’t get. There is no free lunch out there for fucks sake.

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  59. nickb (3,686 comments) says:

    It’s amazing isn’t it Jafa. You would think people who have attained that level of education would know better. But so often they are leftards. Must be some sort of liberal guilt.

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  60. Jafa (38 comments) says:

    It reminds me of religion where all the evidence is completely irrelevant to the argument. I have tried arguing with religious nutjobs before and it is a thankless task. They have all been brainwashed from birth by their parents. A lot like the Labia and green voters.

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  61. burt (8,201 comments) says:

    Jaffa

    Anyone can understand that if the tax rate is 0% the tax take is zero. Only lefties will argue that if the tax rate is 100% you will collect ten times as much tax as when the tax rate is 10%.

    They live in a fantasy world where they are entitled to other people’s money….

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  62. Rivka (8 comments) says:

    To Dim (no “e” required): If you care to read my post again, you will find I didn’t say “extreme right wing”, I said “the more extreme contributors”. You, dear friend, are the one who’s winging it. You then suggested that I must be, and I quote: “crazy left aka a teacher, public servant, loser..” I guess you’re making that assumption because I use punctuation.

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  63. big bruv (13,686 comments) says:

    “………..New Zealand had full employment under Helen Clark……….”

    I also call bullshit on that one.

    Has everybody forgotten the way that Labour just pushed people onto the sickness benefit so they could claim that unemployment was low?

    Never forget, the Clarke/Norman/Turei/Peters government was the most corrupt in this nations history.

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  64. slightlyrighty (2,471 comments) says:

    Cunliffe and Jones have both studied at Harvard, so must know that the policies they are pushing with regard to Living Wages and Minimum Wage are fatally flawed. Cunliffe and Jones were both cabinet ministers where the negative impacts would most definitely have been discussed at the annual revue of the minimum wage.

    Labour cabinet documents clearly show that the government of the day clearly understood the damage that would be caused by increasing wages beyond the capability of the prevailing economy to support them. They understood that raising the wage too much too soon would negatively impact employment growth, and the most vulnerable would be negatively affected by a large rise by “a reduction in hours worked, or substitution of some groups of workers by others” (Quote taken directly from 2006 cabinet documents).

    Bear in mind also that Robertson was working in the office of the Prime Minister for a time, and may have had some periphery involvement in these matters. Given his union background, this may have been an issue that he was interested in, but this is supposition on my part.

    However, this documented evidence is totally at odds with the slogan filled rhetoric we are currently hearing from the three candidates. Which begs several questions….

    Do the candidates really believe the viability of the wage policies they are currently promoting?

    Cunliffe and Jones, having studied at a Harvard, a institution with a strong reputation in the commercial and business world, and having addressed the matter at cabinet level, simply cannot have acted the way they did then, and believe the things they are saying now. Robertson might, but anyone who has spent as much time as a parliamentary staffer at the level he has, shouldn’t believe it at all.

    Why are they promoting these policies?

    They want to be seen in the most favourable light by their followers, so will tell them what they want to hear, even if they don’t agree with it. Even though they know that these policies will be impossible to implement without the very adverse consequences they addressed at cabinet level, their own ambition puts that to one side.

    Are they lying to their members?

    They can’t hold 2 opposing positions. Either they were lying in cabinet, or they are lying now. Economic realities being economic realities, can only lead to the conclusion that they are lying now to shore up support for leadership at all costs.

    Are they fit for government?

    If any of the three were fit for government, they wouldn’t be promising what they are promising now.

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  65. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    at some stage between now and the final “vote”, one of these clowns (not Jones) is going to have to come out (not Robertson) and tell some truths or these promises will come back and bite them on the bum if they win the 2014 election

    And what if they don’t?

    They aren’t promising anything impossible. Social democratic countries like this still exist and prosper. New Zealand used to be one of them, and offered the world’s highest standard of living when it did so. There is always an alternative.

    I’m genuinely surprised that Cunliffe and Robertson have tacked so hard left. In Cunliffe’s case it’s probably because he thinks it’s time that there was a public debate about the basis of economic policy and the fallacies embedded in the neoliberal conception of it.

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  66. Reid (16,227 comments) says:

    Tom, NZ attained that standard of living because the US bought all of our wool at super-high prices because they needed it during the Korean War.

    If you’re suggesting we should start another one to achieve the same end then I’m not sure it would work and possibly some of the lefties might object, for some reason. I don’t think Wussel would be on board at all. Unless it was South Korea, he’d like that, given his leanings.

    But one thing’s for sure. No-one gets richer by spending more than they earn, not countries and not individuals. So when you look back fondly on the socialist govts achieving economic nirvana through higher spending, normally something else was going on that gave them the cash to do it. And its rather childish isn’t it to look at the re-distributor as your benefactor – I don’t recall children at a lolly scramble ever wondering who paid for the lollies so gayly distributed, but one or two adults normally think about mundane things like that. Don’t they.

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  67. dime (9,796 comments) says:

    “To Dim (no “e” required): If you care to read my post again, you will find I didn’t say “extreme right wing”, I said “the more extreme contributors”. You, dear friend, are the one who’s winging it. You then suggested that I must be, and I quote: “crazy left aka a teacher, public servant, loser..” I guess you’re making that assumption because I use punctuation.”

    Dim? So original.

    7 comments in and already one of the biggest douche bags here.

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  68. dime (9,796 comments) says:

    The highest standard of living? hmm thats back when everyone had a state house and kids got an orange for christmas? sounds awesome.

    From wikipedia:
    High demand for agricultural products from the United Kingdom and the United States helped New Zealanders achieve higher living standards than both Australia and Western Europe in the 1950s and 1960s.[189] In 1973 New Zealand’s export market was reduced when the United Kingdom joined the European Community[190] and other compounding factors, such as the 1973 oil and 1979 energy crisis, led to a severe economic depression.[191] Living standards in New Zealand fell behind those of Australia and Western Europe, and by 1982 New Zealand had the lowest per-capita income of all the developed nations surveyed by the World Bank

    So, before roger douglas came along with his evil changes, we had the lowest per capita income of all developed nations??

    where do we sit now? probably not that far off the bottom with our bloated welfare state.

    i guess if everyone is poor there is no nasty income gap. great.

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  69. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    You’ve been on fire today Dime, I don’t think the rote labour dummy rivka is up to it personally, if ‘dim’ is his best shot he’s best ignored.

    I never got a reply from Grant today about when my new house would be available either, a bit pissed off actually, the prick made a promise and hasn’t even got the manners to get back with some basic info. I assume he has staff to take care of genuine enquiries. Probably a sign of things to come – when people want the TAB to pay out on all the promises the arseholes will just go off-line .

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  70. UpandComer (528 comments) says:

    Vibenna – when you employ thousands and thousands of people in the public service and shunt people from the benefit, to the sickness benefit you too, can have 3.8% unemployment, for a year or two – then of course reality hits and all those people lose their jobs because it’s ridiculous and unaffordable and stupid and unproductive *aren’t real jobs.

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