Latest poll

October 28th, 2013 at 7:46 am by David Farrar

I’ve blogged the latest Fairfax/Ipsos poll at Curiablog.

National are up 1.9% to 50.2% and could govern alone on that poll. Not a bad Labour Day present for the country.

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159 Responses to “Latest poll”

  1. Positan (384 comments) says:

    Perhaps those polled have woken up to the fact that Labour is more of an ever-posturing nonsense than a realistic political alternative.

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  2. big bruv (13,559 comments) says:

    Great news. This should give the ABC sect all the encouragement they need to start moving against Cuntliffe.

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  3. Keeping Stock (10,177 comments) says:

    Not just a wonderful Labour Day present for New Zealand, but a wet blanket for David Cunliffe and Labour ahead of their conference this weekend. And not only could National govern alone on those numbers; Labour seems to have taken support away from the Greens, and Winston First is outside looking in.

    Could a day off get off to a better start?

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  4. sparky (235 comments) says:

    Awesome news. Not surprised really. The John Key National government has a good handle on the economy. The opposition have nothing constructive to offer, and the negativity is sickening.

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  5. Camryn (551 comments) says:

    National always seems to struggle to get the good news out, but at some level it doesn’t matter. Voters know they feel good and the country is moving in the right direction.

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  6. Longknives (4,686 comments) says:

    Excellent news- This ‘Rich Prick’, ‘Tory’ (or whatever Lefties call people who actually work for a living) is very pleased.

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  7. dime (9,664 comments) says:

    Rogue poll!

    Cunliffes honeymoon lasted 5 weeks?

    He’s just a dreadful looking bastard. Unelectable.

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  8. Pete George (23,327 comments) says:

    Not a go0d poll for anyone but National.

    National 50.2% (up 1.9)
    Labour 33.6% (up 2.0)
    Green Party 10.7% (down 1.6%)
    NZ First 2.3% (down 0.5)
    Conservative Party 0.7% (down 0.7)
    Maori Party 0.7% (down 0.7)
    Mana 0.7% (up 0.2%)
    Act 0.1% (down 0.1)
    United Future 0.1% (n/c)
    Other 0.9% (down 0.9)

    It’s a long time until the election but everyone has a lot to do – including National who will probably end up struggling to match their last election result.

    In particular this is a reality check for Labour, Cunliffe and the premature victory cheerleaders at The Standard.

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  9. Pita (373 comments) says:

    I guess this is what Cunliffe meant when he said that National’s popularity was plummeting…

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  10. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Wonderful Labour weekend news . . . notice there is no mention of this in “the Herald”, they are still cowering to views of scum like Bernard Hickey, Mat McCarten, and any other trash that can be found capable of using a keyboard producing socialist doctrine.

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  11. flipper (3,843 comments) says:

    But questions remain:

    * Will the now solidly left wing Herald drop its planned anti-government campaign on rest homes scheduled for next ?

    * Will the always solidly left wing/green-red melon electronic media, adopt a balanced approach (50% Nats, 33% Liarboire, 10 % Greens, and so on ) or will those left wing producer driven parasites, and the dick heads did on Q + A yesterday, show a continued Cun minus T – red melon bias?

    * Will the dilly would-be train driver get the blame?

    * or, Will DPF and Whale be blamed for taking an objective stance on the socialist liars?

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  12. duggledog (1,439 comments) says:

    Poor old Labour.

    They’ve lost their party’s left to the Greens

    They’ve lost their party’s right to National.

    JK has taken a leaf out of Tony Blair’s book and swallowed up the entire middle ground – somehow taking most of the country with him. And we know how long that administration lasted.

    Labour strategists are confounded: ‘How does he do it?’ I think he does it by actually knowing who real NZers are and what they want and what they think – not by studying them in books or getting that info from ‘advisers’. He does it by leading from the front, by delegating, by making sure everyone is on the same page. He does it by actually knowing how money and economies work, and by realistically knowing where we sit on the world stage.

    National could well govern alone. Labour and Greens’ wild assertion that the country is going to hell in a handcart is becoming increasingly hollow with every passing day.

    If you can’t make a go of it in NZ today, I reckon you’ll never make a go of anything – anywhere on this planet. Most voters can see this

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  13. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Conservative 0.7% (-0.7%)

    Hilarious, they have sunk even lower. :)

    …they will be where I am today, but Redbaiter and his friends will have moved onto an even more enlightened plane, for (as I have said before) we are the spearhead of the cause that will defeat the Progressives

    I am just the vanguard of a political movement that is going to wipe Progressives off the face of the earth. They’ll disappear like the Dodo birds did.

    I am spearheading a force that will grow from hundreds to thousands to millions and you will be gone.

    Redbaiter KB 2013

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  14. tas (596 comments) says:

    The margin of error is 3%. So I wouldn’t read too much into this. But I’m very relieved, the last Roy Morgan poll was a bit worrying. My Labourite friends were gloating about the last poll. This should shut them up.

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  15. Longknives (4,686 comments) says:

    “they are still cowering to views of scum like Bernard Hickey, Mat McCarten..”

    Speaking of McCarten- I see he was pontificating to us all in the Herald again yesterday. No mention of the fact that Unite was pretty much exposed as a drug dealing operation during the week…
    Imagine if it had been a ‘right wing’ organisation?

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  16. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    The gaggle are rallying already, the little fat effeminate Wgtn Central MP and his deviants will be sipping pink gins today, getting the still sharp knives out of their fairy cabinets. So long as this party panders to the losers and sickos of society they are on a hiding to nowhere.

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  17. Tauhei Notts (1,650 comments) says:

    Lovely spring day here.
    But that poll result for the Greens just made it better.
    I have been very concerned for some time now by the immense support those fuckwits have gathered. The possibility exists that some of their followers are finally seeing the nonsense the Greens espouse.

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  18. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    The real question is how the god-addled Conservatives lost 1/2 of their meager votes ? A remarkable feat !

    Maybe prayer will fix it ?

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  19. burt (8,025 comments) says:

    Unite …. The perfect example of a union. Blather on about workers rights and solidarity – don’t pay your taxes ( yes … Taxes … The very thing that funds the welfare your ideology says is uber important ) – and when all else fails … Sell class A drugs .. Yep, inflict more pain on the most vulnerable …. What a team.

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  20. burt (8,025 comments) says:

    Ok, so who is going to be the new Labour leader after silent T…. Mallard ?

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  21. flipper (3,843 comments) says:

    tas (384) Says:
    October 28th, 2013 at 8:20 am
    The margin of error is 3%.
    ****

    No…
    It is NOT a home run….
    but 3% up or down, at worst would produce a 47-36 result for the Nats…and there would also be some min P movement.

    Do not read anything much into Morgan. That is a whore’s drawers poll.

    Unless there is a major economic disaster between now and this time next years….

    Well, “It’s The Economy Stupid” – no matter how much the media may campaign to the contrary.

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  22. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Two thumbs down.

    The Conservatives must be rallying against me. Careful you don’t spend all morning thumbing me down and find you are late for church. :)

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  23. burt (8,025 comments) says:

    flipper

    That’s right, the margin of error works like that. The team you want goes up by that amount and the team you don’t goes down… Yep… That’s socialist la la land all right. But hey if socialists can ignore that every time they have had control of the economy it’s ended in recession and National have had to take over and fix shit – then yes socialists can pretend that this poll is good news cause Nasty National will go down and dear leader will go up.

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  24. tvb (4,254 comments) says:

    The moderate centre seems to be sticking with National. The saying vote Labour and you get the Greens for free has got some resonance. The Greens have shown themselves to be quite inflexible. Labour should not assume they will get the support of National to push sensible policies through. National would rather there be a change in Government even if that means the Greens voting with them to defeat Labour Party policies.

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  25. MT_Tinman (3,044 comments) says:

    A good poll for the forces of good but I still find it concerning that just under half of the country state they will vote for the thoroughly discredited, indeed hateful quasi-communists.

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  26. wiseowl (827 comments) says:

    It’s easy to pull the wool over the sheeples eyes.

    And BTW quit the continued reference to the Conservatives as christian.
    In real NZ you will find real conservatives lost from National who ready to back this party for its policies and principles.

    And no, I’m not a member.

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  27. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  28. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    Hah! Just wait until a polling period that covers the night that Labour and Green MPs showed solidarity with cleaners at parliament and did some manual work for a night.

    Yes! showing solidarity by holding a mop is far more important than trivial indicators like economic growth and reduced crime.

    Then you Tory neolibs will see the power of the people…

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  29. iMP (2,344 comments) says:

    Note the placement by the media of the Conservatives on the poll graphic, ahead of the other minnows. Interesting.

    http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/10/28/latest-poll-but-note-the-consv-shift/

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  30. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    Labour is like a big desexed old slobbering dog which has been fed a diet of utopian socialism.

    How can they fix the housing crisis while they condone (and started ) mass migration. There are too many Professor Paul Spoonley sycophant types.

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  31. wat dabney (3,721 comments) says:

    Saw Cunliffe on the news last week trying to exploit the closure of a factory for political gain.

    He was explaining to the TV camera how he feels their pain.

    Anyone who doubts it should reflect on the fact that he was wearing gumboots.

    You don’t get much more “real” than that. Ask any focus group.

    No National-style spats for him.

    I think he imagines he comes across as angry on the workers’ behalf. In fact he came across as a cynical, manipulative shit, obviously just mouthing sound-bites he thinks will play well; someone who parachutes in to exploit people’s misery then fucks off quick because, let’s face it, they were not members of the state-sector unions which own Labour and which exist to plunder such poor, unorganised sheep.

    His inability to fake sincerity lets him down badly.

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  32. bringbackdemocracy (416 comments) says:

    Conservatives still NZ’s 5th highest polling party.

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  33. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    In fact he came across as a cynical, manipulative shit

    A bit like Phil Goff mucking in to help clean up beaches affected by the Rena spill, in a suit?

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  34. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    His inability to fake sincerity lets him down badly.

    Oh no, I think he sincerely believes that he is vastly superior the proles.

    He doesn’t fail to fake that at all. In fact he nails it in just about every appearance.

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  35. nasska (10,910 comments) says:

    Kea

    The Great Prophet once (15 Oct) wrote:

    …”The change will come not from one Redbaiter but from millions. Already they are speaking out everywhere across the globe. The left’s long time political hegemony will be destroyed, for it has to be.”….

    I’m sure that this poll result for the conservative movement must be a rogue one…..just a temporary setback on the road to world domination. :)

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  36. niggly (813 comments) says:

    Not just a wonderful Labour Day present for New Zealand, but a wet blanket for David Cunliffe and Labour ahead of their conference this weekend.

    Ahh the upcoming Labour conference – a potential double whammy for Labour with things like the man-ban on the agenda it will reinforce in the public’s mind that Labour’s priorities are elsewhere. Of course Cunliffe has to go ahead with such agenda items seeing the activist base has his back.

    Oh dear, hope there are no implosions as the re-energised Left wing take back further control by further pursuing their agendas now that they have their Messiah in place which expectations to deliver … and deliver … and deliver!

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  37. Pete George (23,327 comments) says:

    “Conservatives still NZ’s 5th highest polling party.”

    But a long way from 5% and losing ground. It’s difficult for small parties to get much media exposure, especially from outside Parliament, so how they do leaning up to the election are what’s most important.

    Interesting that Colin Craig made a bit of news this week making a play for the NZ First vote, but that has also dropped. The two minor parties that have to make 5% each could only get 3% between them.

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  38. iMP (2,344 comments) says:

    Kea, you are getting Caesarian thumbed, because you don’t understand polls of 1000 people and how they disproportionately reflect agin small parties across the whole of NZ. Take the Consv.s for example – because you seem obsessed (3 posts in like 3 min.s) – they had NO polls when they started 2 months out from the 2011 election, but got almost 3% of the vote. Now they’re ranking fifth (consistently) and have the highest membership behind Nat/Lab./Greens and closing.

    When the machinations of govt are glaring down at voters, they’ll vote accordingly. I think most of us here (as do the poll graphic designers) understand they will be a player in how govt. is formed next year. Which is why JKey has talked about them so much this week, and why they were part of the Q&A slate over the weekend.

    Remember, NZF was written off in the polls last time, Nek Minute. Polls 12 months out….pffff they mean little than trends at this stage.

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  39. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    NZ First suffers from a lack of acumen in how it argues against high immigration (Prosser is a classic example). Immigration is a hot topic and making a case has to be done with the precision of bowel surgery. It is well documented that the New Zealand media have come down heavily in favour of immigration.

    The Media’s role is to air brush immigration issues:

    The mass media play a central role in democratic societies, providing an important means
    of communicating information and a critical understanding of political process. In
    societies that are becoming more culturally diverse as part of an ongoing nation-building
    process, the centrality and critical nature of that role is accentuated, with the need to
    explain the political options and the diversity of that society. To ignore or marginalise
    ethnic groups (be they indigenous or immigrant) is incompatible with the democratic role
    of the media (Barker, 1999: 78), especially given the traditional role of the public service
    in radio and television in New Zealand. The politics of recognition and incorporation (cf
    Spoonley and Berg, 1997) are played out in the media and contribute to the quality of
    understanding and debate in both public and private realms. As Mahtani (2001: 99)
    comments with regard to Canada, “…the media is responsible for the ways that Canadian
    society is interpreted, considered and evaluated amongst its residents”. The media cannot,
    as it has done in the past, claim that is simply reflecting the society in which it is located
    and responding to the interests of the public (cf Alibhai-Brown, 2001: 124).

    DEFINING IDENTITY AND CREATING CITIZENS :
    THE MEDIA AND IMMIGRANTS IN NEW ZEALAND

    http://canada.metropolis.net/events/metropolis_presents/media_diversity/Spoonley%20%28Eng%29.pdf

    Hence when the Savings Working Group says immigration policies shot us in the foot it goes unreported.
    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/reviews-consultation/savingsworkinggroup/pdfs/swg-report-jan11.pdf

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  40. UpandComer (523 comments) says:

    This is encouraging news. It would just be awful for NZ, but especially awful for the poor and disenfrachised in this country if once again, Labour come in to reap the rewards of the hard and steadfast work and sacrifice of others, and once again waste it.

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  41. Keeping Stock (10,177 comments) says:

    You’re like a broken record hj; no-one cares about NZF’s xenophobia any more; they just ignore it.

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  42. wat dabney (3,721 comments) says:

    Immigration is a hot topic

    Only with you, hj. You sad, lying, bitter obsessive.

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  43. mandk (877 comments) says:

    @ Kea,
    No church today.
    But I’ll remember you in my prayers :-)

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  44. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    hj,

    What is the Savings Working Group’s take on this latest poll?

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  45. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    “Labour come in to reap the rewards of the hard and steadfast work and sacrifice of others”
    ………………………………….
    off course that doesn’t include those who have made their money out of asset inflation since asset inflation isn’t wealth creation ;it just creates a whole that has to be filled (eg by rent increase or big mortgage) . You’ll be pushing for land taxes or something?

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  46. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    You’re like a broken record hj

    If only that were true, KS.

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  47. Warren Murray (293 comments) says:

    Doubt the numbers will look like this in 12 months time. But it would be good if NZF fails to reach the threshold.

    Pleased to see the left cannibalising each other’s vote.

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  48. big bruv (13,559 comments) says:

    “And BTW quit the continued reference to the Conservatives as christian.”

    Why not?, it is a statement of fact.

    I would rather see Neville Key do a deal with two new ACT candidates to gift them a couple of seats than do a deal with a fundamentalist bible basher.

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  49. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    mandk, cheers. I will be along too when I have saved up enough sins that need forgiving :)

    iMP, yeah I understand just fine. The “Conservatives” hover around 1%. People here don’t like religion mixed in with their politics. BTW…When your great leader Graham Capil was around, what did you guys poll ?

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  50. bringbackdemocracy (416 comments) says:

    At the last election the Conservatives and NZ First got a combined vote of just over 9%. With the Conservatives getting just under 3% and NZ First getting just over 6.5%. Since then the relative positions of the two parties has changed, with support for the Conservatives rising and support for NZ First falling.
    The combined vote for both NZ First and the Conservatives is still predicted to be just over 9% according to i-predict. But they are each predicted to get 4.6% each. Which is consistent with present trends

    https://www.ipredict.co.nz/app.php?do=browse&cat=377

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  51. Colville (2,186 comments) says:

    Kea.

    Plenty of people happily mix religion and politics you just dont happen to be one of them. Get over yourself.

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  52. OneTrack (2,818 comments) says:

    hj – “off course that doesn’t include those who have made their money out of asset inflation ”

    But Labour, in their zeal to deal to those evil landlords, will highly likely take out big parts of the productive sector at the same time with their ill thought out policies which will affect more than they had in mind.

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  53. Nostalgia-NZ (5,044 comments) says:

    Despite the poor handling of the dotcom case, and others where Ministers have got themselves into a tangle the steady and more important news has been the economy. Another reminder why John Key has been smart to stay out of the gutter, and tuned into moderate New Zealand whose aspirations are toward a better future built on modest debt. I expect to see Cunliffe moving closer to the middle and the similarity of National and Labour becoming more obvious, while there is reason for content, and by the time of the election probably more comfort that Labour can do the job the bitter fight remains over those that didn’t vote last election and who will rally them.

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  54. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Colville , Judging by the 7% result [For the Conservatives] I suggest many do not want religion mixed with politics. Like about 99.3%

    Take your cult back home to the Middle East, it does not belong here. :)

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  55. OneTrack (2,818 comments) says:

    Longknives – “This ‘Rich Prick’, ‘Tory’ (or whatever Lefties call people who actually work for a living) ..”

    I think the insult word of the day is “neolib” :-)

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  56. Colville (2,186 comments) says:

    IMHO the CCCP’s most important role in 2014 may be just stealing Winstons lunch. 3% for both Craig and Winston and Key will do it in a canter.

    This would change significantly tho if new elctorate is created around Craig obviously.

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  57. Colville (2,186 comments) says:

    Kea I belong to a few “cults”

    One dresses in camo and carries high powered firearms…the other consumes aged single malt.
    I am not sure either originates from the middle east tho.

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  58. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    OneTrack (1,015) Says:
    October 28th, 2013 at 9:52 am

    hj – “off course that doesn’t include those who have made their money out of asset inflation ”

    But Labour, in their zeal to deal to those evil landlords, will highly likely take out big parts of the productive sector at the same time with their ill thought out policies which will affect more than they had in mind.
    ……………………………….
    Sounds like a hostage situation?!
    The reality is that we have good and clever people (SWG Tax WG) who will come up with solutions which are best for the country but interest groups will lobby them to the side.

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  59. OneTrack (2,818 comments) says:

    Nostalgia – Unfortunately, only a few weeks ago, Cunliffe was playing Santa Claus. The groups he made promises to will now be demanding payback for making him “dear” leader. I doubt he had to make any promises to keep any centre or centre-let groups happy (because I doubt they exist in today’s Labour Party.). Cunliffe may make some nice moderate policy statements but, I suspect, he would be saying what the sheeple want to hear and telling his backers not to worry. Just like the manban is still on, they just aren’t admitting it.

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  60. burt (8,025 comments) says:

    So it’s possible there won’t be another generation of low paid workers kept poor so they continue to fund the unions who fund the Labour Party and keep the workers poor by fucking the economy through tilting the playing field as specified by the union overlords… Shame …

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  61. hj (6,732 comments) says:

    Cont:

    Sickening:

    Productivity Commision:
    We recommend that you:
    a agree to the inquiry selection process set out in Appendix 1
    Agree/disagree
    b agree that Commission’s second tranche of inquiries be selected on the degree that
    they:
    • are relatively uncontroversial given the desire to establish broad political support for the Commission

    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/informationreleases/productivitycommission/pdfs/t2011-2000.pdf

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  62. OneTrack (2,818 comments) says:

    hj – one of those interest groups would be the Labour Party IMHO.

    I , quietly, support a CGT in concept. I just do not trust the Labour/Green/Winston/Mana coalition to come up with a coherent one that actually does what it is supposed to without imposing huge costs, both expected and unexpected on the country as a whole.

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  63. burt (8,025 comments) says:

    The problem with Labour fiscal policy is that it’s first objective is to look effective in the short term.

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  64. nickb (3,675 comments) says:

    I don’t see why all the Nat supporters should be getting ahead of themselves. Watch for enormous bribes next year for Labour to make up polling ground.

    It only takes a few percent of the swing voters to go back to Labour and National are toast, especially with the parlous state of all their potential coalition partners.

    Swing voters are the biggest morons in NZ and will vote solely out of their own self interest. Remember Labour with interest free student loans and WFF in 2005? Then they tried it again in 2008 with universal student allowances.

    Those kinds of bribes will be even more effective next year because National are the incumbents and have had 2 terms, and 6 years of generally conservative budgets without huge new spending programmes.

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  65. Sir Cullen's Sidekick (837 comments) says:

    Die Labour die….Tax and spend communists and their co-nutters loony Greens – Rot in the opposition for ever you scums.

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  66. Nostalgia-NZ (5,044 comments) says:

    One Track 10.03.

    That’s the same way I see it. Not quite ‘sold my soul to the company store,’ but tricky terrain nevertheless. I think it all falls around intelligence and moderation now for both Labour and the Nats, two bright men at the top, one proven and one with work to be done. The ‘manban’ and other such issues are explosive so the enemy for Labour is within. As I wrote earlier the ‘safe’ passage is toward the middle, divisive MPs and policies should not be on the menu from here on in but naturally some of them will be, particularly as some desperation sets in and the smaller parties move to distinguish themselves from being irrelevant. I think many in the electorate would like to be voting on euthanasia, retirement age, possibly ACC and housing of course – although for housing the Nats may have stolen a march at this point. Interestingly, we will probably see JK campaigning on what he believes as the real ‘agenda’ of Labour cautioning voters to vote less they fall into a trap, even though his trump card is the economy, safe hands and being on the cusp of prosperity. I hope neither major party run a negative campaign, though time and desperation will tell.

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  67. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Dear Silent T

    When you have no policy other than envy.
    When you have opened your gob and made promises that you can not possibly fulfil.
    When you have sold ,what may pass for a soul in the world of lefties, to the Unions.
    When you have a CV and Bio that is full of shit and anyone who can read can shoot holes it.
    When you surround yourself with over the hill, no talent, never had talent professional troughers.
    When you are just a smug wanker
    You will struggle in the polls and suffer abject humiliation in any election.

    love Paul

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  68. flipper (3,843 comments) says:

    Therre are two or three important questions that need answers:

    * The Whale has just said: “After 5 years they are still scoring high 40s and in the case of the latest Fairfax poll over 50%. This just shows the lie of Labour and their shills touting an as yet unpublished UMR poll and the Roy Morgan polls as proof National is in trouble. Labour pushed hard that the UMR polling showed National in 30s…I now challenge Labour and UMR to release that poll…it is so far out of whack with every other reputable poll as to suggest they simply made it up.”

    * Yesterday Armstrong said the Nats own polling confirmed the Horrid’s poll …but had since picked up. So who is shilling whom?

    * Come on DPF…. or whoever… who is right ?

    Personally, knowing the bias lurking within Fairfax, as can also be detected from the writings of Watkins and Small today, I would not bet on either the UMR or Armstrong fiction. In respect of that man, he must be wishing he took a different line yesterday – but was he writing to the Murphy/Currie script?

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  69. flipper (3,843 comments) says:

    Nos-NZ….

    Yep…

    In the 1970s, syndicated and celebrated US political writer, Stuart Alsop, wrote his political classic : “The Real Majority.”

    The real majority sits firmly in the middle. Control that, and in any western democracy, you win any properly conducted election.

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  70. Zapper (965 comments) says:

    I’m an atheist but people like kea are just an embarrassment. No-one brought religion into this until him (several times). I don’t want religion to determine policy but if the Conservatives are required to keep NZ from becoming Greece then I have no problem with them being in government. I suspect they would bring a rather modern form of christianity to politics anyway, I don’t have too many issues with that. I’d rather that than the religion of socialism and the melons.

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  71. srylands (392 comments) says:

    “I think the insult word of the day is “neolib” ”

    This insult at The Standard was amusing before it became boring. The Standardistas shout that the current government is “far right” and “neoliberal”. What a total joke. The Government’s admirable achievement is to stop wasting money as fast as Helen (which is welcome but it could go MUCH further).

    I look at WFF and the comprehensive social welfare safety net that costs $30 billion +. I look at what the Government has achieved in the Christchurch recovery. And I think “neoliberal far right WTF?”

    Maybe, just maybe, there will not be quite enough fools to believe the lies come 11/14.

    I am in the process of writing an essay on my observations of “The Standard” belief systems, and the idiocy of the people there. Maybe I can get The Herald to publish it :-)

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  72. burt (8,025 comments) says:

    Zapper

    I think you quite rightly cast socialism as a religion. It has all the traits of a blind faith belief system. Basically it’s never ever worked anywhere – ever – yet people still defend it and shove it down your throat as the one and only option to solve all the problems of the world.

    If socialism is a religion then the unions are the churches, the collectors of money from the poor donating it to the comfortable.

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  73. burt (8,025 comments) says:

    srylands

    I’ve been silently banned from the standard. My comments just don’t show up at all – they go into a black hold and never come out. I take it as a compliment :-)

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  74. flipper (3,843 comments) says:

    Srylands…
    “I am in the process of writing an essay on my observations of “The Standard” belief systems, and the idiocy of the people there. Maybe I can get The Herald to publish it :-)

    *****

    Send it to:
    yournews@nzherald.co.nz

    Good luck :-)

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  75. nasska (10,910 comments) says:

    I’ve voted National at every election from 1969 barring 1984 when I gave a protest vote to the NZ Party to get rid of Muldoon’s government. If however, the Conservatives look like being in a position to force their warped, religious/moralistic garbage on the rest of us I’ll back the Greens.

    The country just might be able to recover from the financial ruin the Left will inflict but I’ll never willingly see my grandchildren living under the religious Taliban these control freaks wish to create.

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  76. isaac (10 comments) says:

    I watched the interview with Simon Boxer at the weekend and wonder what his qualifications are to be the spokesperson for Greenpeace. He is described as Senior Climate Campaigner.

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  77. burt (8,025 comments) says:

    nasska

    You might want to think carefully about your position. Unionism has been compulsory in the country before – and still pretty much is with public service organisations insisting you join the collective. Dropping your cash in the collection bucket at church has never been mandated under law – yet .

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  78. Tom Barker (133 comments) says:

    Will those National MPs who recently announced their intention to resign, now seek to change their minds?

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  79. srylands (392 comments) says:

    “Will those National MPs who recently announced their intention to resign, now seek to change their minds?”

    No, because they are not shallow fools with one dimensional decision making skills.

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  80. iMP (2,344 comments) says:

    Dear Your Majesty
    London.

    As Head of State of NZ and several other countries AND Head of the Anglican Church

    I think you are a cultist for mixing religion and politics.

    And the same goes for that Baptist preacher Martin Luther King Jr.

    Sincerely, Kea.
    Ignorantville.

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  81. Paulus (2,562 comments) says:

    Like other writers if it becomes necessary I will give my always National Party vote to the Conservatives.
    I live in a very safe National seat.
    Will certainly give this consideration next year.

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  82. OneTrack (2,818 comments) says:

    Tom -Will those old has-been Labour MPs ever announce they are standing down in order to reinvigorate the party. Or do we have to wait until they drop dead before they leave the only source of income most of them have ever had (and probably ever will).

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  83. KapitiCoast (114 comments) says:

    @ Srylands…that can’t be correct, must be a system glitch that Lynn is working on as the left believe in free speech and indeed open discussions and enjoy a robust discussion with counter views against the left just like on here and Whale oil, no… definitely a system error.

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  84. duggledog (1,439 comments) says:

    Colville:

    ‘IMHO the CCCP’s most important role in 2014 may be just stealing Winstons lunch’

    Got it in one. John Key must nurture the ginger boy or he’s going to be asking for a cup of tea… make that a cup of sick – with Winston First.

    National are not going to allow all the hard work they’ve done in the past years to be blown apart by Labour / Greens in six months. I sometimes think people look at a poll and think, ooh, it’s going to be a struggle for National in 2014. Surely they will have planned way in advance what to do.

    The campaign must consist of rubbing Cunliffe (or whoever)’s nose in the fact they are aligned and indistinguishable from a bunch of complete mentals. No matter what Labour do, the Greens will prove to be the flatmate that doesn’t pay the rent or do the dishes.

    Plus, there will be lollies. Don’t believe English when he says there’s no room for that – of course there is. The third term depends upon it. He’s keeping his powder dry. I still reckon it’ll be a reduction in fuel excise.

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  85. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Will those old has-been Labour MPs ever announce they are standing down in order to reinvigorate the party

    100 % correct in your comment OneTrack.

    Labour suffer the great malaise of our modern society i.e selfishness – its not about the voters, its about them.They suffer a vanity that knows no bounds.

    Walter Nash was I think. the greatest example of a labourite refusing to leave, he was still hanging around Parliament getting cheap meals several weeks after he was buried.

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  86. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Mixing religion and politics is just asking for trouble, but a purely secular system can’t avoid corrupting the judiciary.

    One solution is a theistic system which says as little as possible about religion, acknowledging that a purely secular system can never be sovereign in a political sense.

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  87. Colville (2,186 comments) says:

    Kapiticoast.
    I am banned from the Stranded until after the next election :-) and it was the softest of troll comments that got me binned too. I just think I annoyed the boy with a girls name when he was on the rags.

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  88. Colville (2,186 comments) says:

    When Key wins in ’14 can you imagine the carnage behind closed doors in the Liarbore caucus.

    Blood and entrails will be knee deep :-)

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  89. big bruv (13,559 comments) says:

    Hooton seems to be having fun over at the EPMU funded Standard today, he is doing a great job at winding up the scum.

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  90. publicwatchdog (2,286 comments) says:

    Whatever……

    Where were all the polls that predicted I’d get 4th in the Auckland Mayoral campaign with 11,723 votes?

    Remember Kiwibloggers, that less than 2 years ago, when I stood against John Banks in Epsom (2011 General Election) – I got 128 votes?

    http://www.pennybright4epsom.org.nz

    (Just saying …………….:)

    Enjoy this beautiful Auckland day!

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

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  91. Elaycee (4,332 comments) says:

    The ‘price’ often paid for having Labour Weekend at the beach, is the long ride home in heavy, undisciplined traffic.

    But that won’t be the case today…. Even if we’re 14 cars back from some moron heading a 2km queue at 45kph and refusing to pull over, it will still be ‘happy times’ in our car.

    Because I know, somewhere in the land, Silent ‘T’ will be totally shitface with these poll results and he’ll be listening intently for the noise of knives being sharpened…. :D

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  92. nickb (3,675 comments) says:

    Hi Penny,

    Have you apologised to John Palino yet for insinuating he is a bad debtor, because you don’t know what a solvent liquidation is, and you don’t know how to find documents on a public register?

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  93. Zapper (965 comments) says:

    Penny, there are plenty of polls that indicate the % of retards is higher than your vote count, so no surprise really

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  94. Grizz (540 comments) says:

    I would not get excited by this poll. It is a one off. The polls tend to overestimate National’s support. Even if they are the largest party in Parliament, they may still sit in opposition. There is still plenty of time for another political Clusterfuck. Yes it is a reasonable position to be in given that most of the MSM are against them. The economy will need to continue to improve and be devoid of big shocks to continue to have leverage for voters.

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  95. Chuck Bird (4,765 comments) says:

    @burt

    “I think you quite rightly cast socialism as a religion. It has all the traits of a blind faith belief system.”

    I would say the same about libertarianism.

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  96. Yoza (1,676 comments) says:

    This poll put National at about 40%.

    It seems a little dishonest to exclude the undecided vote from calculating the final percentages.

    I can’t be bothered working it out precisely, but it would look something like:

    National: 40%
    Labour: 27%
    Undecided: 20%
    Greens: 9%

    With the only other parties having relevance being Maori, Mana and United Future, as they seem the only ones capable of winning an electorate seat.

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  97. Yoza (1,676 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird (3,903) Says:
    October 28th, 2013 at 1:56 pm
    @burt

    “I think you quite rightly cast socialism as a religion. It has all the traits of a blind faith belief system.”

    I would say the same about libertarianism.

    Faith in the abstract concept which imbues money with value is probably the foremast blind faith belief system ever constructed.

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  98. Zapper (965 comments) says:

    Has that always been how you treat polls Yoza?

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  99. Yvette (2,744 comments) says:

    Yes, Penny, our surprize at how many people voted for you, thinking they knew what they were doing, is only surpassed by the number who voted for Len Brown, without knowing what he was doing.

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  100. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    “Nasska- “I’ll back the Greens.”

    Good, as I have always said, your political home is on the left with all of the other progs.

    Those of us who wish most of all to defeat the progs don’t need confused single issue insane obsessives like you firing back into our ranks.

    More such confused progs as claim to be right wing on this site but are really just as progressive as the hard left of Labour should do the same.

    There will be no advancement while the lines are so blurred as to make National virtually a clone of Labour and forcing Labour to go further left in search of votes. All that leads to is a country further and further left. As has happened for fifty years or more.

    There has to be a change of direction and it won’t happen while National is infested with progs. They should all shoot through and sit with the Watermelons and other commies who are their real political cousins.

    Good for you for finally making the choice Narsekissa.

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  101. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    Sincerely, Kea.
    Ignorantville.

    Good to see you here fighting iMP but take my advice and don’t get drawn into flame wars with trolls. I know I do it myself sometimes. Their habitual hypocrisy ignorance and errors are so plain and frequent its sometimes difficult to resist. But in the end its better to get something more productive across and leave.

    Good to see the Conservative Party has grown in membership from 1000 at last election to 5000 today. That is remarkable growth. I wonder if any other minor party has such signed up support?

    If you overlook the editorialising by the usual irritating prog twerp posing as a journo, there’s quite a good interview with Craig here.

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  102. burt (8,025 comments) says:

    Yoza

    Blind faith systems… Classic isn’t it. Religion… The all mighty power of god created heaven and earth and all that encompasses. Yet churches need your money … Prove your faith by going without something for your family so your minister can buy a new car and continue his/her work spending the days worshipping a god that …. That needs your money !

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  103. iMP (2,344 comments) says:

    Kea, the Conservatives are not a Christian party. Their CEO is a Buddhist and they have Muslims involved. Conservativism in politics and economics is not necessarily an expression of Christianity, although as CC said on Q&A when asked the Christian = Conservative Q. on Saturday, obviously a lot of Christians will be attracted to the COnservative Party. Others are in the Lab. and Nat parties. (there are no christians in the Green party, because God disallows that).

    And I’ve never supported Capill, he was always a ghastly man and I’ve only ever drawn swords against him.

    Get beyond the stereotypes (the refuge of simple minds). Is the UK Conservative Party a bunch of bible bashing tub thumpers?

    (Sorry Red, still baiting).

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  104. Samuel Smith (276 comments) says:

    National on 40% with no coalition partners.

    Best you neolibs keep those bourbon and coke RTDs off the ice until 2023.

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  105. kowtow (7,945 comments) says:

    narsekisser ,as Red so aptly calls him ,posts quite a rant at 1206.

    narse consistently attacks anything Christian,and when challenged in the past has claimed he hates all religion equally but is just having a little bit of innocent fun at the expense of the resident God botherers.

    His 1206 shows just how deep his hatred of Christianity is and that his past claims to be humorously riding Christians are lies.He is a hate filled troll.

    Bigot bruv is in the same league.

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  106. publicwatchdog (2,286 comments) says:

    Nick B – here’s what I said in my ‘Open Letter’ to John Palino dated 9 October 2013.

    I asked some hard, but fair questions, to which I received no reply.

    So – I will apologise for nothing.

    The question is now, can John Palino, in light of the ‘Len Brown affair’, and the involvement of himself, and his Palino campaign (whatever…), the now infamous Luigi Wewege, be trusted – full stop?

    I think not

    Hopefully, the media and voting public will do a little more ‘due diligence’ on the proven track record of political candidates, and those with whom they associate?

    “Birds of a feather flock together?”

    Am looking forward to a future Auckland Mayoral by-election…..
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________

    9 October 2013

    ‘Open letter’ from Auckland Mayoral candidate Penny Bright to Auckland Mayoral candidate John Palino:

    “Can you be trusted John Palino? How ‘successful’ have your NZ businesses really been?”

    Dear John,

    Your Auckland Mayoral candidate’s statement :

    “Since becoming an Aucklander in 1996, I have created and run a range of successful businesses and pursued many projects in hospitality, marketing and media.”

    However, upon doing a bit of ‘due diligence’ myself, and today checking the NZ Companies Office website, I have discovered that there is currently only one NZ -listed company, of which you are a shareholder and Director.

    Your own.

    PALINO ENTERPRISES LIMITED (1427173)

    Searching the NZ Companies Office under Directors and Shareholders for John Palino, comes up with the following list:

    http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/individual/search?q=John+Palino&roleType=ALL&indEntityTypes=ALL&indDirStatus=ALL&indEntityStatusGroups=ALL&addressKeyword=&advancedPanel=false#results

    AUCKLAND VIADUCT LIMITED (1774431) (Struck off) – Director
    In Liquidation

    THE SOUP KITCHEN LIMITED (1794268) (Struck off) – Ceased Director

    THE IVORY LIMITED (1005433) (Struck off) – Director
    In liquidation:

    RUBY’S LIMITED (1077352) (Struck off) – Director

    ACCENT MARK CONSULTANTS LIMITED (919709) (Struck off) – Director

    SAL ROSE LIMITED (1544005) – Ceased Director

    ALBERTON VILLAGE PROPERTY LIMITED (1629794) – Ceased Director

    STARKS BAR LIMITED (2212784) – Ceased Director

    In summary – of the 9 above-listed NZ companies, 5 have been ‘struck off’
    (of which 3 of those companies have been liquidated).

    So what is your definition, John Palino, of a ‘successful’ business?

    In your Auckland Mayoral candidate statement, you say:

    “Auckland ratepayers deserve accountable, transparent and representative local government serving community needs.”

    However, you don’t have any stated ‘ACTION PLAN’ in order to achieve’accountable, transparent and representative local government serving community needs.’

    I do.

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/
    2013/08/ANTI-CORRUPTION-WHITE-COLLAR-CRIME-
    CORPORATE-WELFARE-ACTION-PLAN-Ak-Mayoral-campaig
    -19-July-2013-2.pdf

    Do YOU John Palino, agree with this 19 point ‘ACTION PLAN’ for genuine transparency, and democratic accountability?

    Yes or no?

    If no – why not?

    ACTION PLAN TO PREVENT CORRUPTION – ‘WHITE COLLAR’ CRIME & ‘CORPORATE WELFARE’ IN NZ:

    1. Get our anti-corruption domestic legislative framework in place so NZ can ratify the UN Convention Against Corruption.

    2. Set up an NZ independent anti-corruption body tasked with educating the public and PREVENTING corruption.

    3. Change NZ laws to ensure genuine transparency in the funding of candidates for elected public office and political parties at central and local government level.

    4. Legislate for an enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ for NZ Members of Parliament (who make the rules for everyone else).

    5. Make it an offence under the Local Government Act 2002 for NZ Local Government elected representatives to breach their ‘Code of Conduct’.

    6. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Government elected representatives.

    7. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Central Government staff responsible for property and procurement, (including the Ministry of Health), in order to help prevent ‘conflicts of interest’.

    8. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Government staff, and Directors and staff employed by ‘Council-Controlled Organisations (CCOs) responsible for property and procurement.

    9. Make it a lawful requirement for details of ‘contracts issued’ – including the name of the contractor; scope, term and value of the contract to be published in NZ Central Government Public Sector, and Local Government (Council), and ‘Council-Controlled Organisation (CCO) Annual Reports so that they are available for public scrutiny.

    10. Make it a lawful requirement that a ‘cost-benefit analysis’ of NZ Central Government, and Local Government public finances be undertaken to prove that private procurement of public services previously provided ‘in-house’ is cost-effective for the public majority. If not – then return public service provision to staff directly employed ‘in-house’ and cut out these private contractors who are effectively dependent on ‘corporate welfare’.

    11. Legislate for a legally-enforcable ‘Code of Conduct’ for members of the NZ Judiciary, to ensure they are not ‘above the law’.

    12. Ensure that ALL NZ Court proceedings are recorded, and audio records made available to parties who request them.

    13. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ Judicial ‘Register of Interests’, to help prevent ‘conflicts of interest’.

    14. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ ‘Register of Lobbyists’ and ‘Code of Conduct for Lobbyists’ at Central Government Ministerial level.

    15. Make it a lawful requirement at NZ Central and Local Government level for a ‘post-separation employment quarantine’ period from the time officials leave the public service to take up a similar role in the private sector. (Help stop the ‘revolving door’).

    16. Make it a lawful requirement that it is only a binding vote of the public majority that can determine whether public assets held at NZ Central or Local Government level are sold; or long-term leased via Public-Private –Partnerships (PPPs).

    17. Make it unlawful for politicians to knowingly misrepresent their policies prior to election at central or local government level.

    18. Make laws to protect individuals, NGOs and community-based organisations who are ‘whistleblowing’ against ‘conflicts of interest’ and corrupt practices at central and local government level and within the judiciary.

    19. Legislate to help stop ‘State Capture’, a form of ‘grand corruption’ arguably endemic in NZ – where vested interests get their way at the ‘policy level’ before legislation is passed which serves their interests.

    Prepared and authorised by Penny Bright, Auckland Mayoral Candidate, 86A School Rd, Kingsland, Auckland 1021 waterpressure@gmail.com

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright
    PROVEN ‘anti-corruption /anti-privatisation’ campaigner.
    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz

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  107. Viking2 (11,275 comments) says:

    Well all key has to do now to retain the benches for ever is to legalize dope and its sale. as is being done oversea’s.

    Perhaps now he has got rid of the dopey twat with the possum top from Wellywood they can revisit the stupid laws they created that extend the crime dept of NZ, both uniformed and non uniformed.

    Now that would be a step forward. Save the taxpayer half the police budget, and increase the tax take from those that never pay tax.

    We can but hope. I guess.

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  108. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    Narsekisser and other leftist breed losers are the dismal results of the left’s Planned Society of Stepford Children. Idealogical inbreeds.

    Hence the only polls that show the far left making any ground are the polls that consist of 200 Maoists, 450 Leninists, and 350 Stalinists.

    Wasted fuckers who believe in Marxist economics, and on the simple premise that two negatives[stealing and lazyness] make a positive.

    Fucken lunatics. :cool:

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  109. big bruv (13,559 comments) says:

    Penny.

    Is it true that you have not paid your rates or some time?

    If that is indeed true why do you think you have the right to bludge off the rest of us?

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  110. Pete George (23,327 comments) says:

    V2 – wrong target, I think National are the biggest impediment to cannabis law reform. What makes you think Key would back that?

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  111. stigie (1,003 comments) says:

    Yep, its true Bruv, other commenters have asked the same question but no respose from our dear Penny !!

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  112. kowtow (7,945 comments) says:

    This country has a massive problem with cannabis.

    Why make it worse “legalising” it?

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  113. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    As I have said before, it matters not too much what the Conservatives stand for, the idea is to break the cycle of revolving door progressivism that is the legacy of successive Labour/National tweedle dee tweedle dum governments.

    We can already see that working as one fake right winger has been flushed out of hiding and is now going to vote Watermelon.

    That is exactly what we want. The progs have to leave National and go to the Watermelons or Labour and then we will have a real competition of ideas where there are actually two different competing camps.

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  114. stigie (1,003 comments) says:

    Kowtow says
    This country has a massive problem with cannabis.

    There is no problem with cannabis Kowtow, its the fucking ‘P’ and alcohol that you should worry about !

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  115. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    “Narsekisser and other leftist breed losers are the dismal results of the left’s Planned Society of Stepford Children. Idealogical inbreeds.”

    He’ll be back again soon sucking up to his Syrian half brother the parrot. Almost every post is a pitiable ingratiating plea for support from his prog buddies. Sickening to observe such a crawler.

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  116. burt (8,025 comments) says:

    kowtow

    The only massive problem there seems to be with dope is the fact that it’s making hundreds of millions for the gangs. I put it to you that we would have a bigger problem with alcohol compared to all other drugs combined if we made it illegal and started giving out hundreds of convictions a year for anyone caught producing or processing it.

    I actually wonder if the gangs “lobby” politicians as only criminal organisations can to keep status quo.

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  117. stigie (1,003 comments) says:

    Cant quite believe you would vote for the melons Nasska, always thought you were a centre right man.
    You have us worried and perhaps you should respond to clear this up.

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  118. nasska (10,910 comments) says:

    Don’t fret Baity….before I cross to the dark side the Trojan Horse full of conservonutters & religious freaks has to be accepted by the electorate. Getting that smelly mess under the fence will be a challenge given that only one seventh of one percent would entertain voting for the lunatics.

    Once the people are acquainted with what living in the fifties entails the CCCP & their queer mates will get a lesson in what gravity does. :)

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  119. Griff (6,995 comments) says:

    conservative redtard ?
    you aren’t a conservative ur a retard .
    you stand for stupidity and redtarded imaginary times that only existed in your sick stunted mind.

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  120. nasska (10,910 comments) says:

    I’m centre right stigie & that’s the way I want NZ to stay. The thought of National cozying up to a pack of God-fearing, nappy-wearing retards sickens me.

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  121. Griff (6,995 comments) says:

    Its only a matter of time before colen gwaig gets caught fiddling kids or bum poking little boys.
    such is the way of filthy god nuts
    do as we say not as we do
    the motto of the moral less godsods

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  122. big bruv (13,559 comments) says:

    “As I have said before, it matters not too much what the Conservatives stand for”

    Thank fuck only idiots like Bedwetter think like that. While I would never vote for the stinking Greens I would rather not vote at all than support the Nat’s is they want to get into bed with any religious fundy party.

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  123. stigie (1,003 comments) says:

    Yea, but have’nt the conservatives toned down their religious talking somewhat ?

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  124. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    Colmar has Nats at 45% and Labreen on 47%.

    Winston is kingmaker again.

    Conservatives polled 2%, so could be influential if they can win an electorate.

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  125. Reid (16,111 comments) says:

    I thought Craig’s comment on Q&A re: forcing landbankers in Akld to either build houses within 5 years or face compulsory acquisition actually made a lot of sense.

    The example he cited was buying sections for I think $20k and selling them for $400k. Sorry, but that’s obscene and frankly I don’t care if a few free-market fanatics and property developers get upset by such a policy.

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  126. nasska (10,910 comments) says:

    stigie

    They’ve toned down the religious talking because even Colin Craig has enough upstairs to know that NZ has had a guts full of religious political parties. The kiddy fiddling Capill made sure of that.

    Wait until next year’s candidate selection. It will be full of Godwhacks….same as last time.

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  127. duggledog (1,439 comments) says:

    Griff. ‘Its only a matter of time before colen gwaig gets caught fiddling kids or bum poking little boys.
    such is the way of filthy god nuts’

    Craig is not Catholic

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  128. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    I thought Craig’s comment on Q&A re: forcing landbankers in Akld to either build houses within 5 years or face compulsory acquisition actually made a lot of sense.

    You’re kidding, right? What’s he trying to do? – out Marx Marx? (Or, more likely, out Winston Winston.)

    Those that are holding land may well be reaping profits, but the answer to the problem is NOT confiscation of private property. (Which is what the compulsory acquisition will amount to, because you can bet he would change the law so that it wasn’t actually at market value.)

    If you want to force private land holders to meet the market now, then open up govt/council land and let supply and demand force them to realize their gains now, rather than face reduced gains in the future.

    If he thinks you should be forced to hock off land you’re not using to someone else, then he’s only a synapse away from requiring you to clock up x mileage on your new car, else flick it cheaply to someone who would make more use of it.

    And every reductio, no matter how absurdum, from there.

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  129. Nostalgia-NZ (5,044 comments) says:

    ‘I thought Craig’s comment on Q&A re: forcing landbankers in Akld to either build houses within 5 years or face compulsory acquisition actually made a lot of sense.

    The example he cited was buying sections for I think $20k and selling them for $400k. Sorry, but that’s obscene and frankly I don’t care if a few free-market fanatics and property developers get upset by such a policy.’

    All crap Reid. Where are there sections for $20,000. Forcing people to build is an obscene idea, next it would be a control on how much land an individual could own, after that what they do with their money over a certain ceiling.

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  130. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    N-NZ,

    My only regret is that I am only able to uptick your comment once!

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  131. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    I thought Craig’s comment on Q&A re: forcing landbankers in Akld to either build houses within 5 years or face compulsory acquisition actually made a lot of sense.

    Well, that’s Conservative ah Red?

    Just another control freak. I own a spare section( I wish it was in Auckland) but if I want to grow gorse on it for the next fifty years, its no business of any fucking politician.

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  132. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    “I would rather not vote at all than support the Nat’s is they want to get into bed with any religious fundy party.”

    Good.

    Another prog flushed out. A few more elections and you’ll be voting Labour Bigot, which is where you should have been from day one.

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  133. big bruv (13,559 comments) says:

    Reid

    “I thought Craig’s comment on Q&A re: forcing landbankers in Akld to either build houses within 5 years or face compulsory acquisition actually made a lot of sense. ”

    You are ok with the government stealing land from private ownership?

    Sounds like you should be voting for Labour and the stinking Greens.

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  134. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    “Its only a matter of time before colen gwaig gets caught fiddling kids or bum poking little boys.”

    Showing what filthy cowards progs really are where they can’t wait to smear and lie and falsely accuse as they have done throughout history. To get rid of their political opponents in any way possible.

    In one small way such vile comments are a help as they help to solidify resolve. Why would any decent person be on the same side as Grief?

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  135. big bruv (13,559 comments) says:

    Bedwetter.

    You’re actually a socialist at heart. You prefer to have a government tell us what is acceptable and what we can do with our own lives. Of course in your fucked up view of the world as long as the government is controlling us with policies that you approve of then that is perfectly acceptable.

    Me, well I want less government, less taxes and zero religious bigotry influencing my life.

    It is not the roll of the government to tell me who I can marry.
    It is not the roll of the government to tell me how I educate my Kids.
    It is not the roll of the government to tell me who I can have sex with.
    It is not the roll of the government to tell me what I can spend my money on.
    It is not the roll of the government to make laws based on a work of fiction called the bible.
    It is not the roll of the government to tell me that cannot end any suffering or misery that I may be suffering through illness.

    All of those things you support Bedwetter, as I said, you’re actually a socialist.

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  136. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    Just fuck off and vote Labour troll, I’ve got better things to do than try and educate tiny minded and ignorant bigots like you.

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  137. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    A few more elections and you’ll be voting Labour Bigot, which is where you should have been from day one.

    And you think that would be a good thing under our MMP system?

    So speaketh the master campaign strategist. His services available to your campaign at reasonable rates.

    He contracts under the name Wewege.

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  138. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    “You’re kidding, right? What’s he trying to do? – out Marx Marx?”

    Only a hypocritical National Party supporter, flat out like a lizard drinking supporting WFF and AGW and a hundred other socialist initiatives good make such an allegation without a shred of embarrassment.

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  139. big bruv (13,559 comments) says:

    Ouch!!

    Bedwetter showing us all just what a raw nerve looks like.

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  140. Griff (6,995 comments) says:

    redtard is an authoritarian
    when you examine his position its no different than stalinist ussr
    as to moral corrupt Christian politics
    every time the hypocrisy will out
    filthy fuckers cry morals when they have none
    like you redtard and your stupid conservative dream
    ignorant old man lost in your own mind.

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  141. Redbaiter (8,022 comments) says:

    And it says a lot for how Kiwiblog comments section has gone down hill when a vile cowardly comment such as that made by Grief can attract a large amount of support. Must be some real scum hanging around here these days.

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  142. Nostalgia-NZ (5,044 comments) says:

    A horror story bhudson 6.45. Enough to wake anybody up on a public holiday. Much ‘land banked’ land is in the hands of families from deceased estates, often with multiple owners but all brought and paid for. Of course there could be an effort to specifically remove such titles from any forced compliance, despite that they’re often complicated, in dispute, or ‘idle’ whilst owners decided on what to do or when to sell. On a commercial level however it is legitimate business. Many hard working people make money from land banking whilst their businesses or work just manages to tick over, often purchases and sales may be many years apart. Those that purely speculate often have their heads on the chopping blocks balancing over drafts or mortgage payments, one might be envious of them on one hand but they walk the walk and it can go horribly wrong. There are another group that pay off their ‘purchase’ over many years with an eye on retirement or some benefit to their family, also legitimate. Fighting talk really.

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  143. Super Guest (13 comments) says:

    Good to see the big government Conservative Party in the margin of error territory. Last thing National needs is more fiscal socialists coming into power to promote 1950s social conservatism (aka futile personal freedom reducing conservatism).

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  144. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    Only a hypocritical National Party supporter, flat out like a lizard drinking supporting WFF and AGW and a hundred other socialist initiatives good make such an allegation without a shred of embarrassment.

    While neither can lay claim to being the originator, it seems that both Marx and Craig agree that “all property is theft.”

    So Colin Craig’s gonna nick it.*

    * acknowledgment to Vyvyan Basterd

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  145. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Spot on Nosty, and from a guy who makes his dough off property- He and the developers he works for will just love being able to pick up land with a maximum of five years appreciation on it.

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  146. nasska (10,910 comments) says:

    ….”He and the developers he works for will just love being able to pick up land with a maximum of five years appreciation on it”…..

    Don’t worry Paul…..I’m sure that any profits would go to a good cause. He’s a Christian. :)

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  147. Steve Taylor (211 comments) says:

    The apparent dichotomy of the Conservative Party position on private freedom and public responsibility regarding property is probably best explained here: http://www.kirkcenter.org/index.php/detail/ten-conservative-principles/

    Kirk would perhaps best sum it up in the balance between recognising the benefits of ownership alongside the benefits of this ownership investing into the community, via volitional choice to do so.

    On this basis, Craig would appear to have the balance about right.

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  148. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    Steve Taylor#

    Yes.

    “……Property is the fruit of labor…property is desirable…is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence when built….” – The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume VII, “Reply to New York Workingmen’s Democratic Republican Association” (March 21, 1864), pp. 259-260.

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  149. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Too much sense in that quote for the left to digest Harriet

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  150. Steve Taylor (211 comments) says:

    Hi Harriet, Yes, and as an owner, I would still retain volitional choice, even if confronted with a compulsory acquisition option 5 years hence. One choice in such a scenario would be for me to retain my holdings, develop the land, and either sell the houses to new owners, or rent them out to tenants. More people would have somewhere to live, and I would retain my individual property rights, and avoid a compulsory acquisition outcome.

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  151. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    But Steve, I like gorse, its my land and my gorse, bugger off.

    How happy are you with this scenario.
    The Auckland Domain, compulsorairily (sic) acquire that for housing. Long Bay reserve ditto. Western Springs likewise.

    Watch the howling there my friend, why? because thats “our” land. Well my section covered in gorse is my land so piss off.

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  152. itstricky (1,696 comments) says:

    Not a go0d poll for anyone but National.

    National 50.2% (up 1.9)

    Except that Colmar have NAT down 2%, Greens up 1% – so – pretty much a reverse.

    I will politely disagree with your assertion (and consequently get 20 down ticks and 15 “but they’re a left wing conspiracy” comments. Yep, ain’t that the truth when ya losing ground, ain’t that the truth)

    Seems it’s even Stevens (Taylor that is – keep on recruiting buddy, keep on recruiting – I see Con. are up 1% if you believe the left wing conspiracy, or down 0.7% according to Fairfax – gasp! shock! horror! more left wing conspiracy!)

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  153. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Conservatives like Red are lucky to have this forum to express views held by a few corralled within a fraction of a percent. Or has Red calls them a ‘spearhead’

    Lol :)

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  154. cha (3,856 comments) says:

    I do like Craigs piss or get off the pot thing.

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  155. Steve Taylor (211 comments) says:

    Hi Pauleastbay,

    I guess I might more readily recognise the fact that if the Govt wants my property, then legally, they can take it – I don’t like this any more than you do, but I can still exercise personal sovereignty nonetheless in my response. I could also exercise personal sovereignty in terms of taking the position “it’s mine, bugger off” however I’m not sure how I could defend this position under a compulsory acquisition scenario? I also understand that the vast swathes of land you mention may have been “gifted to the people of Auckland”, but these same people have elected the leaders who passed the laws that enable compulsory acquisition, whether or not land was gifted, so…..go figure.

    Itstricky: The Conservative Party are reporting over 5000 members and counting – I think the recruiting dynamic has taken on a life of its own.

    I have watched various minor party support sway like the proverbial reed in the wind over the years: it will be the numbers 14 – 30 days out from an election that will attract my greatest attention – the rest most often falls within the margin of error outside the environment of an election decision-making period -and thus I believe that it is methodologically ambitious to even claim a trend in such numerical territory.

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  156. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    More people would have somewhere to live, and I would retain my individual property rights, and avoid a compulsory acquisition outcome.

    Steve,

    You do not retain your individual property rights under Craig’s ‘use it or lose it’ policy – if you retained such rights you would be free to hold your land for any period of time and sell it when you choose.

    Under Craig’s plan compulsory acquisition is avoided through coercion. You do not see the irony in that?

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  157. Yoza (1,676 comments) says:

    bhudson (4,465) Says:
    October 28th, 2013 at 7:38 pm

    …while neither can lay claim to being the originator, it seems that both Marx and Craig agree that “all property is theft.”

    The quote ‘all property is theft’ was coined by Proudhon:

    If I were asked to answer the following question: What is slavery? and I should answer in one word, It is murder, my meaning would be understood at once. No extended argument would be required to show that the power to take from a man his thought, his will, his personality, is a power of life and death; and that to enslave a man is to kill him. Why, then, to this other question: What is property? may I not likewise answer, It is theft, without the certainty of being misunderstood; the second proposition being no other than a transformation of the first?

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  158. Colville (2,186 comments) says:

    So under Craigs 5 year piss or get off the pot plan what woudl stop you just selling it (to yourself) and keeping it another 5?
    I suppose it would trigger some income tax but that wouild only be bringing forward that event.

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  159. Shazzadude (522 comments) says:

    Fairfax has proven itself to be unreliable, polling 54% for National in election week 2011 (actual: 47%), 49% for National in election week 2008 (actual: 45%) and 43% for National in election week 2005 (actual: 39%). Polling that inflates National by up to a whopping 7% places it’s reliability little better than Horizon’s.

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