A political talk show with no politicians?

November 9th, 2013 at 2:00 pm by David Farrar

The Herald reports:

The Prime Minister won’t appear on and ’s radio show again this year as pressure mounts on their bosses to take action against them for their treatment of a young woman on air.

Labour leader also confirmed he would decline an appearance if invited.

It caps off a mostly horror week for RadioLive parent company MediaWorks as several major advertisers withdrew from the station amid the furore, and the broadcaster lost some of its most popular US television shows. The furore shaded to a degree the work of TV3 in leading television coverage of the story.

has appeared on the show on occasion but a spokeswoman said he would not do so again this year and no further appearances were scheduled.

Mr Key would continue with his regular interview slot on Marcus Lush’s breakfast programme.

Mr Cunliffe said he would not appear on the show “at the moment”, with some party members unhappy with Tamihere’s comments.

John Tamihere is a Labour Party member, former MP and Minister, and aspiring candidate. points out in an open letter to Cunliffe the hypocrisy that she is deemed unsuitable for membership, yet Tamihere is. She writes:

I have never accepted there may be any defence or explanation to gang raping girls as young as 13 years old.  Girls that young cannot by law even give consent and Mr Tamihere as a lawyer should know that and he seems incapable of accepting this publicly without attempting to justify it or blaming the girls in some way.

Mr Tamihere is aiding discussion with his fan club of neanderthals, not of grown women but girls only young enough to be my niece and your daughter.  He entertained the thought they may be asking to be raped by a pack of sweaty, nose-ringed, want to be gangster ferals due to what they wear.  He invoked what  Miley Cyrus wears and commented on what is written on girls Facebook pages.  Every educated adult seems to understand apart from Tamihere and his radio partner that these girls have made allegations of intentional, violent and publicly humiliating pack rape which is an entirely different matter to mature adults having consensual group sex.

On the same show on Thursday Mr Tamihere suggested that a person challenging his views was imparting “middle class” values as if it explained away that girls from working class or poor backgrounds should just accept pack rape, underage sex and sexual assault from older boys and men as a normal activity in the suburbs he claims to be at the “coalface” and a Leader of.

I might have to wear the eventual rejection of my membership as a badge of some honour such is the reported rarity of the action.  In light of this however I expect some consistency and that you step in as a Leader before your more vocal and active female members demand it of you and remove Tamihere’s Labour membership completely before even entertaining he may stand for Labour in 2014.

Will anyone in Labour take action? Will Cunliffe?

Back to , you now have a political talk show that no MP from National or Labour will go on. I expect no Green MP would either. So will any MP still go on the show with them? I can think of just one – Winston. Inquiring media should ask Winston what he thinks of what Willie and JT said, and whether he is still happy to go on their show.

Tags: , , , , ,

67 Responses to “A political talk show with no politicians?”

  1. Black with a Vengeance (1,640 comments) says:

    Fuck radio and television and media works and Willie and JT and John Key and Cactus Kate and…:)

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 10 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. Chuck Bird (4,756 comments) says:

    Only slightly off topic but very relevant to this issue.

    Police Superintendent Bill Searle said this week that a police officer’s son, who the Weekend Herald has since confirmed is Tristan Burrow, was involved with inquiries in 2011 but not subsequently.

    He said “the officer concerned”, now known to be Constable Craig Burrow of Auckland Central, had no involvement with the Roast Busters investigation.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11154064

    Tristan Burrow is one of the three boys the 13 year old complainant accused of raping her in 2011. The police say that the fact that one of the accused is the son of a police officer had nothing to do with their decision not to prosecute. I think I feel like a Tui.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    I would enjoy Radio Live sacking the racist Willie Jackson.

    Vote: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. tvb (4,244 comments) says:

    Their show should be suspended for the rest of this year and they can look at it again next year when all the fuss has died down.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. Keeping Stock (10,170 comments) says:

    First they lost all their advertisers. Then the guests stopped coming. And with nothing but Jackson and Tamihere for three hours, listeners voted with their off switches.

    Oh dear; how sad; never mind.

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    This racist,anti Maori hate campaign against Willie and JT is another rightwing conspiracy organized by the loathsome Slater and Palino..

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. OneTrack (2,798 comments) says:

    Not to forget Wewege, Simon Lusk and Crosby Textor.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. iMP (2,333 comments) says:

    JT is eminently qualified to re-enter Parliament. Look at the uncensured open racism of Hone Harawira.

    So, is David Cunliffe saying he also won’t go in to a coalition with Mana, if he won’t go on the Willie/JT race hour?

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. Rex Widerstrom (5,327 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird, thank you. I have been going over and over in my mind the possible reasons the police wouldn’t prosecute in a case like this, driving myself slightly mad in the process.

    Normally any allegation by a teenage girl of anything remotely sexual by an older male is leapt on with enthusiasm by police and prosecutors. They don’t have to worry about consent, because legally it can’t be given. They don’t even have to worry about forensics or corroborative evidence, because if the male defends themselves the police know it’ll be a (well coached) tearful complainant – often by video link from a room full of teddy bears used to interview much younger children – against a man who, many will believe merely by virtue of the accusation and arrest – is invariably guilty and has the temerity to protest his innocence. It’s a “slam dunk” to add a +1 to their clearance rates, so off it goes to court with a level of evidence which would see any other charge not proceed.

    In this case it seems like they have the added bonus of defendants who have admitted guilt. So why not prosecute? Now we know.

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. Gulag1917 (795 comments) says:

    Could be another reason for police not wanting to prosecute – Maoris

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. Chuck Bird (4,756 comments) says:

    Rex, as I said on an other thread I was on a jury on a 3 day rape trial where the only evidence was that of a bitter cougar who spent a lot of money on a young stud. The judge helped the defending lawyer who missed a point. He said” The prosecution has asked why would this woman lie? I do not think it sould be necessary for me to quote Shakespeare.”

    In a normal case of he said she said cases should not go to court unless there are a number of victims with a similar MO.

    With a complaint like this plus their Facebook I cannot see them getting of with any lawyer.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. KevinH (1,149 comments) says:

    Mediaworks will ride the storm out, they know the drill, however the Willie Jackson and John Tamihere show has run it’s course and must be high on the list for change in the new year.
    Willie and John are renown for pushing the envelope, for being provocative and controversial, but in this case they appeared to have crossed the line. Overnight they have become pariah’s, an unfortunate end to their broadcasting career’s.
    John Tamihere will experience difficulty resurrecting his political career because this issue will inevitably be brought up each time he appears in the media and it has also not won him any new friends in Labour.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. gump (1,545 comments) says:

    @Chuck Bird

    “In a normal case of he said she said cases should not go to court unless there are a number of victims with a similar MO.”

    ————————

    Wow! I never thought I’d see somebody on Kiwiblog suggest that we adopt Sharia Law for cases of rape…

    “The crime of Zina is not confirmed except if the fornicator admits it, or with the testimony of four trustworthy men, while the testimony of women is not accepted.”

    http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=156817

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    The true narrative is the loss of the quarter acre dream to hammer our pysches to accept smaller dwelling in a false scanario of less land. Pfff. Seen how much open space there is south of the Bombay hills.

    We all sposed to accept we have to live in less and less. It’s a con. But we will be barraged with media arguments telling us to stop being selfish and accept minute living space while Len Brown and John Key et al live in palatial spaces

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. Chuck Bird (4,756 comments) says:

    @gump

    I might have phrased it badly as I think you have because I cannot see your point. I will rephrase mine.

    In a normal case of he said she said cases should not go to court unless there are a number of victims where the alleged offender used a similar MO.

    Are you saying that if a woman claims sex was not consensual and there was no sign of force like is common in the case of date rape that the case should go to court?

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. OneTrack (2,798 comments) says:

    Except Len Bown doesnt want to free up more land for housing and John Keys government does. So who is the problem?

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. gump (1,545 comments) says:

    @Chuck Bird

    “Are you saying that if a woman claims sex was not consensual and there was no sign of force like is common in the case of date rape that the case should go to court?”

    ——————

    Yes – it should definitely go to court provided that the Crown prosecutor believes that:

    1. There is a case to answer

    2. That prosecution is in the public interest.

    I’m astonished that I should have to state this. It should be self-evident.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. kowtow (7,922 comments) says:

    Political talk show?

    More like a circus with a couple of clowns and no ring master in sight.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. Ryan Sproull (7,059 comments) says:

    If you’re worried about being falsely accused of date rape, don’t have sex with women who are likely to falsely accuse you. Don’t get drunk around women like that. Don’t accept open drinks from them. Don’t wear clothes that encourage false accusations of date rape. Sure, a woman falsely accusing a man of date rape is technically to blame for the false accusation, but it couldn’t have happened if the man had just taken a few sensible precautions.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. Judith (8,390 comments) says:

    @ Chuck Bird (3,956) Says:
    November 9th, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    In cases of date rape there is very seldom physical evidence of force. Physical force that leaves marks/injuries is usually associated with stranger rape. Date rape usually involves the use of intoxicating substances, or in other cases a degree of sexual activity but a refusal to allow penetration.

    Many young girls ‘freeze’ at the point that penetration is about to take place or has just started. Particularly if inexperienced. Whilst they have been prepared to allow petting, touching etc, they do not want intercourse – research has shown that in many situations despite verbally saying no – they have been unable to prevent penetration from occurring, due to the physical indifference between the male and female.

    These cases are very hard to prosecute. Ideally and by law – a person can at anytime state they do not want to continue and the partner MUST comply – if they do not – even if penetration has begun, it is classified as rape. The old saying that NO means NO – is valid – at any point in sexual relations.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. Chuck Bird (4,756 comments) says:

    @gump
    It sure as hell is not obvious to me. Kindly define “a case to answer”.

    I do not believe any case should go to court unless there is a reasonable chance of a conviction. By reasonable I would say at least over 50%.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. big bruv (13,552 comments) says:

    Has anybody heard if McCarten is still going to be on the show?

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. big bruv (13,552 comments) says:

    I think I would miss JT on the radio. While I do not agree with the man often he does have some good points.

    As for Jackson, I simply cannot wait to see the back of the man. He is mind numbingly stupid, a blatant racist and a pro union low life.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. Chuck Bird (4,756 comments) says:

    @Judith & Ryan

    Your points please. How is that relevant to my comment?

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. hj (6,712 comments) says:

    So they protested the loss of the quarter acre? That would be a death sentence?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. Ryan Sproull (7,059 comments) says:

    It wasn’t directed at you, Chuck.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. Judith (8,390 comments) says:

    @ Chuck

    Because there is often no physical evidence, despite the fact that rape has occurred. I took your comment to imply that you were arguing without physical evidence, no case should proceed to Court. I do not believe that is right. It is up to the Court to hear the arguments and make that decision.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. Chuck Bird (4,756 comments) says:

    With no physical evidence and the only evidence is that the woman say she said NO and the guy says said no such thing no jury should convict. At the very least there has to be reasonable doubt.

    And Judith what sort of jail time should a woman get for a false complaint?

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. Left Right and Centre (2,876 comments) says:

    wikibus – what quarter acre dream ? That’s bullshit. Check your history – townies started off in NZ living cheek by jowl.

    People who have seen streets where 19th/ early 20th century houses are still standing will know what that means.

    The townie footprint spread was enabled first by trams and then bigtime with cars.

    NZ cities have some of the lowest population densities in the developed world.

    Who’s forcing people to subdivide their sections too? No-one.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. Judith (8,390 comments) says:

    @ Chuck Bird (3,959) Says:
    November 9th, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    Jail time? Depends on the circumstances. If it is proven beyond doubt, either with a confession or a alibi is proved that puts the suspected offender somewhere else, then I’m sure the Courts would react strongly.

    What you have to remember that when there are differences between the parties regarding whether the female said yes or not, they don’t take it to court unless there is other evidence which indicates the likelihood of the crime occurring. The police do not just take a verbal complaint without supporting evidence and prosecute. Their investigations would have to show that there is a likelihood that that victim is telling the truth.

    Regarding the guy saying no, so the jury shouldn’t convict – are you serious? So if someone is questioned about a crime and they say they didn’t do it, they should be believed?

    OF course a woman should get the same amount of time a man would get when he lies to the court.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. nasska (10,882 comments) says:

    Judith

    ….” if someone is questioned about a crime and they say they didn’t do it, they should be believed?”….

    There are those (feminists) who consider that if a woman says she has been raped then the court should accept her uncorroborated word & convict.

    Both positions are equally stupid.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. gump (1,545 comments) says:

    @Chuck Bird

    “It sure as hell is not obvious to me. Kindly define “a case to answer”.”

    ———————

    I can’t tell if you’re being deliberately obtuse.

    A “case to answer” is defined by the Crimes Act 1961, including all statutory revisions and supplementary legislation.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. Ryan Sproull (7,059 comments) says:

    There are those (feminists) who consider that if a woman says she has been raped then the court should accept her uncorroborated word & convict.

    Citation fucking needed.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. nasska (10,882 comments) says:

    Try your local Woman’s Refuge Ryan. They have mantras such as “Woman don’t lie about rape” & “All men are rapists”.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. gump (1,545 comments) says:

    @Chuck Bird

    “And Judith what sort of jail time should a woman get for a false complaint?”

    ———————-

    The severity of the penalty should depend on the circumstances. Women can – and have – been jailed in NZ for false rape accusations.

    Sections 108-109 of the Crimes Act permit a maximum penalty for perjury of 7-14 years.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. Ryan Sproull (7,059 comments) says:

    Try your local Woman’s Refuge Ryan. They have mantras such as “Woman don’t lie about rape” & “All men are rapists”.

    When were you in a Woman’s Refuge asking people what their mantras were, Nasska?

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. gump (1,545 comments) says:

    @nasska

    “Try your local Woman’s Refuge Ryan. They have mantras such as “Woman don’t lie about rape” & “All men are rapists”. ”

    ———————

    That’s about as believable as “Jews secretly drink the blood of Gentile children”.

    You’d be more credible if you stopped making shit up.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. nasska (10,882 comments) says:

    gump & ryan

    No one can prove what is said in a conversation or a remark but fruitbats who think like that exist.

    Ref: http://thefemministfatale.wordpress.com/2012/12/04/all-men-are-rapists/

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. Judith (8,390 comments) says:

    @ nasska (7,966) Says:
    November 9th, 2013 at 4:18 pm

    There is the argument that most women do not lie about rape – it comes from the premise that the questioning and investigation process is so grueling, that no woman would put herself through that unless they had been raped.

    I am under no illusion, there are women that have lied about being raped, but they are by no means the majority, and nor should real situations of rape go un-investigated just because there have been incidences where that has happened.

    I am not sure if you are aware of the type of treatment rape victims get, but it is not pleasant, and it not something the vast majority of females would line themselves up for, just for kicks. The process is so disgusting, that many victims do not bother to report rapes. Then there is the stigma that remains with rape victims and so on.

    The fact is that men have been raping women since the beginning of time (whenever that was), we are apparently meant to be a civilised society, and if a woman decides she wishes to withdraw from sexual relations at any time, she has the right to do that. Many men on the other hand believe that if they are encouraged to go part way, that gives them the right to complete the job. I’m not going to get into an argument over who is right – it has already been decided by law – and either partner has the right to say no – if the other person proceeds after that point, then it is a crime – its that simple. IT does not matter if the person was wandering down the street naked with a sign on their back saying come rape me – if they say ‘no’, OR imply NO by shaking their head, pushing the person away with their hands, give some physical or audible response to indicate, or refuse to wake up to say yes – then it is rape.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. Ryan Sproull (7,059 comments) says:

    Nasska,

    We’ve gone from you saying that feminists think that “if a woman says she has been raped then the court should accept her uncorroborated word & convict”, to you reporting what you heard (bugged?) at the local battered-women’s shelter, to you citing literally the first blog post that comes up when you Googled “all men are rapists”.

    It’s not that I’m saying you’re a dickhead. It’s more that I’m listing the series of dickheadish things you’ve said in the last 20 minutes.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. big bruv (13,552 comments) says:

    gump

    nasska is right. Have you ever dealt with these men hating femenazi?

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. big bruv (13,552 comments) says:

    Ryan.

    I need to correct you. It was the ever expanding female co-leader of the Greens who said “if a woman says she has been raped then the court should accept her uncorroborated word & convict”.

    This is the position of the Gween party and of their female leader.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. Ryan Sproull (7,059 comments) says:

    I need to correct you. It was the ever expanding female co-leader of the Greens who said “if a woman says she has been raped then the court should accept her uncorroborated word & convict”.

    Fine. Citation. Show me.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. Judith (8,390 comments) says:

    @ nasska

    That blog link you posted belongs to someone who has been raped. It is not surprising that they feel that way – sure an over-reaction perhaps, but clearly someone that was very hurt emotionally, if not physically as well.

    You cannot put up such an example and say that is typical of all feminists, or all women and so on. Obviously the person is angry and venting. It’s a personal blog for goodness sake, hardly scientific empirical data.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. Judith (8,390 comments) says:

    @ Ryan Sproull (5,973) Says:
    November 9th, 2013 at 4:45 pm

    That comment was made Ryan, however, it is taken out of context and there was a lot more to the conversation. It was in regard to the process that rape victims have to go to on the stand when under cross examination. Sometimes it is extremely difficult for them because the defense is allowed to raise all sorts of issues – for example, one case I was present at the victim was asked when she first had sex – she said 16 years of age – at which the defense pointed out that ‘you weren’t married were you’ – she said no. The defence then pointed out that she must have been promiscuous – she agreed that at the time she was – the woman was 62 years of age and had been married almost 40 years when she was raped. She was also asked questions about what that first sexual experience was like, and intimate details about every sexual experience she had before getting married, and even about her sex life with her husband.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. nasska (10,882 comments) says:

    Judith

    I don’t doubt that the process of lodging rape complaint would be gruelling. Part of it is that the police have to be reasonably certain that the woman is not lying….they are there to collect evidence & put it to a court.

    The other side of the coin is that a man falsely accused of rape has his life ruined regardless of the outcome of a trial. Financially & socially he will be wrecked & ostracised.

    There is a lot at stake & the thought that it could be made easier to obtain a conviction doesn’t sit well with me.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. gump (1,545 comments) says:

    @big bruv

    “nasska is right. Have you ever dealt with these men hating femenazi?”

    ——————-

    Sorry – but there’s no point in me continuing a discussion with any person that uses the word ‘femenazi’ un-ironically.

    It’s a dumb word used by dumb people.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. Judith (8,390 comments) says:

    @ nasska (7,968) Says:
    November 9th, 2013 at 4:55 pm

    It doesn’t sit well with anyone nasska, as you know I support someone I believe was falsely convicted of a crime.

    False convictions of any sort do nothing for our society. Women who lay false complaints of rape are even more insidious in my opinion because whilst it is extremely difficult for the falsely accused, their actions also make it harder for real victims of rape to be believed.

    Rape is an insidious crime because it is about ‘force and power and indignity’.

    Victims of rape can have their whole lives ruined, OR they can be survivors – not forgetting, but moving on.
    I knew a young girl that was raped whilst walking home in daylight. Her parents refused to allow her to be a victim, they made perfectly clear to her that what had happened was the fault of male concerned, and that it was his problem – not hers. Basically it was just ‘something that happened because there are bad people out there’ – instead of ‘something that happened to her’. That young girl is now one of New Zealands most successful business woman, and in her late 30′s.

    Her parents response saved her a life of feeling like a victim, and inferior because of it. She will tell you straight even now – it was not, and never will be her problem – it was just one of lifes experiences – one she’d prefer not to have had, but then neither was falling off her horse and breaking her leg.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. BeaB (2,080 comments) says:

    I wonder if these two would want to ask that 87-year-old pensioner what she was wearing when she was sexually assaulted and what she was doing out in broad daylight and was she asking for it.

    I hate burquas but perhaps Muslims recognise their men are incipient rapists so keep their women protected. That’s the obvious conclusion to come to – cover them up, keep them at home, don’t let them drive – and then they can’t be blamed for leading men on.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. nasska (10,882 comments) says:

    ….” Her parents refused to allow her to be a victim”….

    It would be a bloody hard thing to do Judith but at the end of the day it would put things in perspective. When you look at it, that is basically how all successful people deal with lousy situations.

    Hats off to her & her family.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  51. Judith (8,390 comments) says:

    @
    nasska (7,969) Says:
    November 9th, 2013 at 5:20 pm

    Yes, they were very brave for their daughter, of course their inner desire was different, but they put their daughters welfare first, and it paid off. The perpetrator was caught and pleaded guilty which saved an arduous trial, so things might have been different if that hadn’t happened, we’ll never know.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  52. David Garrett (6,729 comments) says:

    This will be interesting….someone who knows how and can be bothered will post a link to Meteria Turei’s statement that any woman who says she has been raped should automatically be believed, and the man charged…then Ryan will apologise…

    I dont know how old you are Ryan, but I am 55…one of the things that led to the end of my relationship with my much loved elder half sister was her emphatic statement about 30 years ago that “all men are rapists”…my sister was, and to the best of my knowledge remains, a self described separatist-feminist-lesbian, but up to that point, I had managed – with considerable difficulty – to maintain a relationship with her…

    While some of the sisterhood may have grudgingly agreed to inserting the word “potential” in front of “rapists”, there are still many of the sisters who go with the unvarnished orginal version. You either know that, and are being disingenuous, or you should get out more…

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  53. Chuck Bird (4,756 comments) says:

    @gump

    Are you a lawyer and if so is that we you cannot express yourself so non lawyers can understand you?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  54. nickb (3,675 comments) says:

    No one can prove what is said in a conversation or a remark but fruitbats who think like that exist.

    Uh, nasska, your quick cherry picking might have had the appearance of credibility if you hadn’t posted a link to satire.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  55. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    When the politicians complain that TV radio turns the proceedings into a circus, it should be made clear that the circus was already there, and that TV radio has merely demonstrated that not all the performers are well trained.
    Edward R. Murrow

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  56. Ryan Sproull (7,059 comments) says:

    This will be interesting….someone who knows how and can be bothered will post a link to Meteria Turei’s statement that any woman who says she has been raped should automatically be believed, and the man charged…then Ryan will apologise…

    David, you may not have read the whole conversation, but it began with Nasska claiming that “feminists” assert there should be a conviction without trial whenever any man is accused of date rape. Even if someone can post a link pointing at Turei saying as much (in full context), unless someone can provide a compelling argument for thinking that Turei speaks for or is representative of the majority of feminists in the world, I will be interested but unapologetic.

    I dont know how old you are Ryan, but I am 55…one of the things that led to the end of my relationship with my much loved elder half sister was her emphatic statement about 30 years ago that “all men are rapists”…my sister was, and to the best of my knowledge remains, a self described separatist-feminist-lesbian, but up to that point, I had managed – with considerable difficulty – to maintain a relationship with her…

    Well, now I know precisely how old you are, David, and if you had told me you were the half-sister of the Embodiment of All Feminists Everywhere, I would have just gone straight to you for your expert opinion on Nasska’s claim that feminists say there should be convictions without trials whenever an accusation of date rape is made.

    While some of the sisterhood may have grudgingly agreed to inserting the word “potential” in front of “rapists”, there are still many of the sisters who go with the unvarnished orginal version. You either know that, and are being disingenuous, or you should get out more…

    When we’re talking about the claim that “all men are rapists”, stated in a literal sense, I will be sure to come back to your comments here, which will suddenly and magically be relevant.

    For now, however, we’re talking about Nasska’s entirely different assertion that “feminists” assert that there should be a conviction without trial whenever any accusation of date rape is made. So far it has been backed up with “go and interrogate people at the local battered-women’s shelter if you don’t believe me” and “here, I Googled the phrase and found a blog post that claims that all men are rapists, and since all of the things I’m terrified of feminists saying are basically the same, let’s just assume that counts as asserting that there should be convictions without trial whenever an accusation of date rape is made”.

    I don’t think you’re being disingenuous, Mr Garrett. I just don’t think you realise what the original ridiculous assertion was that I am questioning.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  57. hj (6,712 comments) says:

    What worries me about this firing off emails to advertisers etc is that it is a move that is strengthening the idea that the lower classes need elites to socially engineer society. This morning on Kim Hills program an expert was saying how we need to instil (from about 6 years old) respect for women. Personally I don’t think things work quite like that because men soon find out that some women are as keen as mustard (others aren’t) and people assess elite rules and form their own opinions.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  58. Ryan Sproull (7,059 comments) says:

    And regarding the entirely different topic of the line “all men are rapists”, some folks might want to rethink their outrage about that line, too.

    I know and have known a lot of feminists, and the only people I have heard utter the phrase “all men are rapists” are men accusing feminists of saying as much.

    The quote is originally SAID BY A FICTIONAL CHARACTER IN A STORY, and the full quote is: “All men are rapists and that’s all they are. They rape us with their eyes, their laws, and their codes.” (Even the fictional character who said the line wasn’t being literal.)

    Everyone disagrees with each other on plenty enough without taking umbrage at imaginary things that no group of people ever actually said. Pass that message on next time someone brings up the line at the pub or Promise Keepers or Colin Craig’s dinner parties or whatever.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  59. Judith (8,390 comments) says:

    I think we need to get some perspective here. Yes there are women that have strong feminist beliefs that will always see men as the enemy, just as there are ‘women hating men’ that no matter what a female does, she will always be an inferior.

    However the majority of us are in the middle. We will never be the same – and quite frankly, would you want us to? Men will always have a different set of emotions and behaviours to women, and both sexes will continue to not understand how the other feels over certain things – that is just how it is because not only biologically, but historically we are very different.

    There is a saying that until you’ve worn high heels and a mini-skirt for a day, you can’t possibly know how it feels to compete in the job market as a woman – and that is correct, but many women also don’t know how it feels for a man to not be able to protect his family, when he is charged by the norms of society with that being his job.

    Rape has occurred since the beginning of time, however in contemporary society, where we are meant to be civilised and the physical domination of one sex over another is meant have ceased, it is regarded as a terrible crime. Perhaps because it reminds us of ancient history and that maybe we haven’t progressed as far as we think we have.

    For females is it now perceived as the ultimate insult – some describe as like drowning – being below the water, unable to breathe and know there is nothing you can to do stop the inevitable. It is that loss of power, that loss of ability to prevent the invasion of your body that is so hard for victims to cope with. It is the ultimate invasion – and the sad part is, that in many rapes it is done because it is the ultimate action of degradation and abuse.

    Abuse that effects all involved. One of the people I have felt most sorry for in situations where a young woman has been raped is the father. The mothers are able to sympathise with the child and cry with them – but the fathers are meant to stay strong – despite the fact they feel they have failed to protect their child – it is very hard on them – some will even try to deny the rape has occurred because they see it has a sign that as the man – as the protector they have failed. It is easier to deny it, that to live with a responsibility that we all put on the shoulders of men.

    This past week has been a sad reminder to us all as parents of where the dangers of such an open social media can put before our children. I don’t think we should be fighting over the worlds of the extremes in society – the feminists or the ‘women haters’ – instead we should be united by saying this has happened, and it’s not going to happen again – and finding ways to ensure it doesn’t (regardless of whether it was rape or not – what we know for sure did occur was not acceptable and not the way we want our children to behave or experience life).

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  60. Dexter (281 comments) says:

    The police say that the fact that one of the accused is the son of a police officer had nothing to do with their decision not to prosecute. I think I feel like a Tui.

    You probably should have one, as you and Rex are clearly living in cuckoo land if you think this is the case.

    The Police have set a clear precedent with recent prosecutions over the years that they will prosecute their own even when there is only a slim chance of a conviction (contrary to the SG’S own guidelines) and leave it up to Judges & Juries to decide. You only need to look at the spate of recent acquittals to see that.

    So to suggest that they would turn a blind eye to child rape because some lowly Constables son in another district was involved, is truly absurd, as any half-way experienced defense lawyer will tell you.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  61. Chuck Bird (4,756 comments) says:

    Judith, I am sure you are a good person – just very confused.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  62. Chuck Bird (4,756 comments) says:

    @Dexter

    Do you think John Banks genuinely forgot about his helicopter ride to Dotcom’s mansion?

    Did man really land on the moon?

    Was 9/11 an inside job?

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  63. nasska (10,882 comments) says:

    Ryan

    Explaining is losing & something I don’t normally bother with but this is getting out of hand:

    1) The original expression “all men are rapists” came from a 1977 novel “1977 novel, The Women’s Room” by Marilyn French. Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_French It was used on placards by feminists in various protests in the 80′s & 90′s.

    2) I have searched but I can’t find the full transcript of Metira Turei’s interview. ‘Judith’ may be able to point us in the right direction. From memory it referred to the refusal by Judith Collins to fully implement the recommendations made by the Law Commission last year. Essentially they recommended turning the justice system on its ear & establishing separate processes & courts to deal with sex crimes.

    3) My original comment that feminists have mantras such as “Woman don’t lie about rape” & “All men are rapists” stands. About twenty years ago a long time friend of our younger daughter shacked up with a violent no hoper. He knocked her around badly one night & since her parents were in Sydney my wife was asked to sort out the mess. She was at the Women’s refuge & a couple of bull dykes (my wife’s description), my wife & the girl had some talkfest over the next moves.

    Apparently in full view in the room were a few large tapestries containing the exact words I used & I’ve just confirmed that with my nearest & dearest who is sitting next to me now with a death grip on the TV remote. I can accept that people who run these organisations probably have a fairly jaundiced view of life but there is no point in trying to pretend that they are not a pack of butch man haters with an agenda.

    I’m not too sure yet what your angle is but not everything in the world is written in black & white & certified by a panel of High Court judges. Therefore using a request for a citation on every opinion written as a blog comment may be winning tactic in an argument but does little for our store of knowledge on a subject.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  64. Ryan Sproull (7,059 comments) says:

    Nasska, you said this:

    There are those (feminists) who consider that if a woman says she has been raped then the court should accept her uncorroborated word & convict.

    I can only respond to what you actually say. And what you’re saying here is that feminists consider that if a woman says she has been raped, then the court should accept her uncorroborated word and convict the accused. In light of that, here’s what you’re saying to me (in addition to your Googled blog post find and recommendation to pop down to Women’s Refuge).

    Ryan

    Explaining is losing & something I don’t normally bother with but this is getting out of hand:

    1) The original expression “all men are rapists” came from a 1977 novel “1977 novel, The Women’s Room” by Marilyn French. Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_French It was used on placards by feminists in various protests in the 80′s & 90′s.

    Correct and irrelevant. (To your original assertion. I know David Garrett brought “all men are rapists” up and I commented on it.)

    2) I have searched but I can’t find the full transcript of Metira Turei’s interview. ‘Judith’ may be able to point us in the right direction. From memory it referred to the refusal by Judith Collins to fully implement the recommendations made by the Law Commission last year. Essentially they recommended turning the justice system on its ear & establishing separate processes & courts to deal with sex crimes.

    Unless they recommended turning the justice system on its ear and establishing separate processes and courts that convicted anyone who was accused of rape purely on the basis of her uncorroborated word, irrelevant.

    3) My original comment that feminists have mantras such as “Woman don’t lie about rape” & “All men are rapists” stands. About twenty years ago a long time friend of our younger daughter shacked up with a violent no hoper. He knocked her around badly one night & since her parents were in Sydney my wife was asked to sort out the mess. She was at the Women’s refuge & a couple of bull dykes (my wife’s description), my wife & the girl had some talkfest over the next moves.

    Apparently in full view in the room were a few large tapestries containing the exact words I used & I’ve just confirmed that with my nearest & dearest who is sitting next to me now with a death grip on the TV remote. I can accept that people who run these organisations probably have a fairly jaundiced view of life but there is no point in trying to pretend that they are not a pack of butch man haters with an agenda.

    Honestly, Nasska, I think there is a point in pretending they are not a “pack of butch man haters with an agenda”.

    I’m obviously not in a position to address the anecdotal evidence of what your wife told you she saw on the wall of a Women’s Refuge shelter 20 years ago. But I do not believe that even those women, if the question was somehow put to them, 20 years ago in that Women’s Refuge shelter, that they would assert that anyone who is accused of rape should be convicted without any further evidence than the allegation.

    I could be wrong – perhaps that’s exactly what those particular women thought 20 years ago. And I could be wrong – perhaps those particular women 20 years ago were reflective of the opinions of feminists in general today. But I do not believe so. I believe that most, almost all, feminists today support a fair trial for allegations of rape.

    I’m not too sure yet what your angle is but not everything in the world is written in black & white & certified by a panel of High Court judges. Therefore using a request for a citation on every opinion written as a blog comment may be winning tactic in an argument but does little for our store of knowledge on a subject.

    I don’t request citations on everything. I requested a citation on that because it’s exactly the kind of nonsense statement that gets repeated from person to person, unsupported, until a bunch of folks take it as common-sense fact that “feminists” oppose fair trials.

    Getting the point across that the overwhelming majority of feminists do NOT oppose fair trials increases everyone’s store of knowledge on this subject.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  65. Left Right and Centre (2,876 comments) says:

    You beautiful man you. Say hi to Mrs nasska for me :)

    Death grip !! Bull dykes !! Yikes !!!!!!!

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  66. Dexter (281 comments) says:

    Do you think John Banks genuinely forgot about his helicopter ride to Dotcom’s mansion?

    Did man really land on the moon?

    Was 9/11 an inside job?

    And your belief, that a large array of Detectives and Inspectors engaged in a vast conspiracy across Auckland to cover up to protect and protect a child rapist because he was some lowly cops son, would fit equally well with that list.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  67. Left Right and Centre (2,876 comments) says:

    Well done nazzie – you sucked ryan right into the KB scrum today. Excellent.
    :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.