Collins on girls dressing

November 10th, 2013 at 10:00 am by David Farrar

Judtith Collins writes in the HoS:

I’ve never been a big fan of short skirts. With our robust Kiwi figures, they’re best left to super models. So, I’ve been interested to hear a couple of middle-aged males commenting on what these fashion choices mean. What’s the scantily-dressed girl trying to say, they ask.

Well, for a start, John and Willie, they’re not dressing for you. They’re not even dressing for teen boys. Girls dress for other girls. They dress to fit in. They dress to be part of a group. They want to be respected and they want to be liked. They want to be beautiful. They dress to impress. They copy their celebrity idols.

I’m no expert on this, but I suspect Judith is dead right. You are dressing up to fit in with your peers.

These might well be fashion crimes, but short skirts and cleavage don’t signal a willingness to be victimised.

New Zealand is internationally rated as one of the best countries to be a woman. This year, we celebrated 120 years of women winning the right to vote.

With that goes the right to not be abused.

Hear, hear.

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66 Responses to “Collins on girls dressing”

  1. Jaffa (103 comments) says:

    How do prostitutes dress, and who do they dress for??

    And if you dress like them??

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  2. Harriet (5,201 comments) says:

    With that goes the right to treat men with respect as it’s not all about ‘dress’ as MS Collins would have us believe:

    As a cop once told me; 50 guys asking a women out is not harresment, but one guy asking the same women out twice after being refused is. Some women think that being asked anything by any male is harresment. It isn’t.

    Women can behave very very poorly towards men when drinking – and they do!

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  3. burt (7,440 comments) says:

    That’s a pretty slick take on Hooton’s

    “My daughters are entitled to rebel and behave badly, without being raped.”

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  4. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    She’ll get hammered.And rightly too.

    They dress for respect and they dress to copy their celebrity idols,duh and they get the vote!

    So who is this celebrity idol dressing to impress?Would you want your daughter going out dressed like a tart?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2493313/She-wont-doing-splits-Abbey-Clancy-goes-knicker-sheer-panel-Union-Flag-dress-Fashion-Brave.html

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  5. Harriet (5,201 comments) says:

    The nation once had the sense to keep women out of public bars for a reason; it would cause trouble where men drank.

    The standards of public bars have never changed, it is simply now a case where women think that they should change….well no…..go back to the lounge bar.

    Our behaviour is just fine in public bars – unless poorly behaved AND half-dressed women attend them!

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  6. dog_eat_dog (788 comments) says:

    Nice to see the dinosaur conservative crowd out in force. Sometimes you can’t blame women for everything, unfortunately. I know it’s easy but that’s not how the world works anymore.

    Thank God.

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  7. Azeraph (612 comments) says:

    Um…. no, they are dressing to display their assets and not just to fit in but to deliberately piss other women off.

    Maybe our illustrious ladies could fill us in on how competitive it is amongst women and their bodies, lipstick, Hair, etc etc. Women are women regardless of education, get a bunch of them together and introduce a new lady who has flawless skin, antigravity tits and no wrinkles and you will see the fake fawning start.

    I know it’s an ugly observation but that’s nature. Unfortunately there will always be one or 2 that wreck it for the rest.

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  8. BeaB (2,165 comments) says:

    Jaffa
    Prostitutes don’t expect to be raped either. You are meant to pay them for their services. And money’s the only reason they want anything to do with you.

    I wonder what that 87-year-old woman was wearing when she was sexually assaulted. Had she been, gasp, to a public bar?
    Was she wearing lipstick? A skirt? Did she smile provocatively?

    What kind of creep thinks a short skirt or low cut top is an invitation to him to overpower, terrorise, inflict pain etc etc?

    I guess you’d have to conclude rapists are the same kind of low-lifes, morons, thugs, perverts and egos that fill our courts for every other kind of offence.

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  9. jims_whare (409 comments) says:

    Collins may be correct that young women dress (or undress) for their fellow girl mates however this isn’t the complete picture.

    They also dress to impress guys as well. (Now how much each girl dresses to impress girl mates vs guys is probably different in each situation)

    Now sure in an ideal world (Nirvana anyone?)folks could walk around dressed in nothing or anything and should be able to do so in complete safety.

    Now to reality:

    – We live a world where hormone driven, amoral young men exist.
    – We live in a liberal world where the prevailing attitude that is preached day in and day out is that people can do whatever they want
    – We live in a world where alcohol is freely available and is consumed by a large number of young people (male & female) in fairly large doses.
    – We live in a world where a fair number of parent/s have no idea what they are doing in raising their children.

    And then folk get outraged that situations arise where young vulnerable girls get preyed upon by amoral, young men after being stupefied by large amounts of alcohol. I mean hello? You don’t have to be Einstein to figure that this is going to happen.

    My five cents worth is for parents to train up their daughters to respect themselves enough that they don’t have to dress like gaga lady to fit in, they don’t have to go to dodgy parties and get pissed to fit in, and give them some good advice about what young guys are mostly after.

    How about teaching them some common sense and and the old fashioned concept of wisdom? How about teaching them that they don’t have to have their own hippie 60’s experience of free love to grow up.

    The modern concept that teenagers will inevitably rebel and behave badly so should be left to their own devices is a cop out by lazy and indigent parents who have forfeited their natural right to inculcate good values and morals into their kids.

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  10. Chuck Bird (4,915 comments) says:

    I am not happy about my taxes paying for medical treatment for illness caused by smokers but I do not say we should let them die because of their poor decisions.

    I am not happy about my taxes paying for medical treatment for illness caused by homosexual’s lifestyle but I do not say we should let them die because of their poor decisions.

    I am not happy about my taxes paying taxes for a rape victim who has greatly contributed to her own situation but I do not say the perpetrator should not be punished severely.

    If old ladies are being raped by intruders gain access by an unlocked door suggesting to women particularly where it is happening to make sure their doors are looked and do not open them to strangers is not blaming the victim.

    The first Christmas I spent in NZ when I was 23 I got rolling drunk and woke up on a bench at a railway station minus all my Christmas pay. I did not go to the police. If I did I would expect they would tell me that I was largely to blame for my predicament.

    I say the same to these females who say woman should be able to go to the pub get pissed and get picked up in the pub by some guy maybe just as drunk and want cry about a situation they put themselves in.

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  11. Harriet (5,201 comments) says:

    Women can now dress how they like anywhere they like and men can’t be blamed for the mixed messages that women send out?

    Well fuck that!

    There is a time and a place for everything. Something that feminism will not promote.

    Instead they promote the idea that it IS appropriate if a women THINKS it is. But that’s rubbish, as women cannot dress how they like anywhere they like as the local shopping mall is not a workplace, and the workplace is not a pizza resturant.
    Society needs standards and dress standards are SOCIAL standards.

    All that this does is place women in FULL control of all social behaviour. And when males get the ‘signals’ wrong – then males are the ones who become the victimised – by employers, media and parliment.

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  12. burt (7,440 comments) says:

    Jims_whare

    I agree, but the same goes for parents of boys. I’ve told my teenage boys that taking advantage of a drunk girl is rape. I’ve also told them that if she gets drunk over a while while they are making out that’s she probably wanting to have drunk sex with them.

    Respect for ourselves and respect for others. These may be regulated by legal frameworks, but their teaching is squarely on the patents, equally ( but different ) for both genders.

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  13. Jaffa (103 comments) says:

    Dress like a slut, and you will be treated like a slut.

    Dress like a filthy tramp, and go see your bank manager for a loan, see how he treats you.

    Perhaps you will get the idea, ……….or maybe not.

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  14. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    jims whare

    I accept everything you said.

    A huge problem for responsible parents is we are fighting an incredible tide .

    There’s a constant lie out there about the freedom of the so called sexual revolution ,liberation etc as if there were all these oppressed out there,well here’s an inevitable result of all that liberation.

    The notion of the rebellious teen is another created victim group.But they lap it up with the media constantly reinforcing the negativity around it.

    We reap as we sow.

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  15. Chuck Bird (4,915 comments) says:

    If is funny how I get treated on this blog by the lawyers how hide behind pseudonyms. I made one serious mistake of loaning money to my lawyer where his friend drew up the mortgage. I trusted both of them. In hindsight I should have got a totally independent lawyer. This was a mistake I acknowledge. However, I do not think is just that I have been treated so badly but the Courts where many judge are hostile to self-represented litigants.

    If a girl get drunk and gets picked up that does not justify someone raping her or the treatment she may get from the police.

    If I leave my keys in my car that does not justify someone stealing my car.

    I make a mistake of trusting my lawyer that does justify him riping me off nor does it justify the treatment I have received in Court.

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  16. gazzmaniac (2,306 comments) says:

    I find it amusing that you were stupid enough to lend money to a lawyer in the first place, whether on his terms or yours.
    Lending money to lawyers is up there with sending money to Nigeria to inherit a fortune from your long lost great uncle.

    If a bank won’t lend an associate money, neither will I.

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  17. MT_Tinman (3,322 comments) says:

    Let’s get one thing straight Judith, not all kiwi sheilas are fat cows.

    Many look rather nice in short skirts.

    I agree however, based on observations while raising a daughter (who is now 40+ and a productive member of society) that girls dress for themselves and have the absolute right to expect males not to act like their middle-eastern cousins and be unable to control themselves when viewing the young ladies.

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  18. Azeraph (612 comments) says:

    Unfortunately our young girls at say 12 to 14 want to start wearing short skirts without realizing or it’s in the back of their minds but conveniently ignored (I don’t know… Rebellious?)) the visual message that can be interpreted as sexual by all males she comes in contact with. I’m not saying all males literally but regardless we are visually driven.

    Mums need to school their girls a little more these days. The male psyche and what drives us at a young age so they can recognize the indicators of a group of males that have switched off their natural behavioral brakes.

    I have been at functions where the young girls have worn those one piece thingee’s that just sit below the curve of their arse. They are safe because they wear hotpants or something like it and stockings but they are smart, they wear those stockings that are flesh coloured. the difference in conversing with these young ones was watching someone trying to have an adult conversation and trying to pull the hem? down constantly. I usually excuse myself and go off and find someone that isn’t fiddling with themselves.

    Psychology, it needs to be taught to the young so they can understand and hopefully avoid the pitfalls of the inept teachings of past generations.

    Morals is not enough anymore.

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  19. Harriet (5,201 comments) says:

    kowtow#

    “…..There’s a constant lie out there about the freedom of the so called sexual revolution ,liberation etc…”

    Hitchens said on ABC Q&A last week:

    “The liberal lifestyle has it all wrong as there is a differance between pleasure and happiness.”

    He was reffering to the gays but it can also be said for liberal hetrosexuals: If you only seek what is pleasurable, it does not then mean happiness follows.

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  20. cha (4,145 comments) says:

    Golly, Sheik Taj ‘cat meat’ Din al-Hilali would fit right in with the KB crowd.

    “If you take uncovered meat and put it on the street, on the pavement, in a garden, in a park or in the backyard, without a cover and the cats eat it, is it the fault of the cat or the uncovered meat? The uncovered meat is the problem.

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  21. Chuck Bird (4,915 comments) says:

    @gazzmaniac

    You sound like you are a lawyer?

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  22. gazzmaniac (2,306 comments) says:

    Fuck that. I wouldn’t be able to live with myself. They are as parasitic as politicians.

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  23. Chuck Bird (4,915 comments) says:

    How many million dollars are you worth? It must be a few having never made a mistake.

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  24. UrbanNeocolonialist (315 comments) says:

    I think Collins has it mostly right. Women are the harshest critics of each other, and fashion is in essence the pursuit of the unobtainable (whatever it is that is most difficult for one to obtain). Historically fat was fashionable when food was hard to obtain. Jewelry used to be fashionable because it was beyond the reach of most. Now it’s thinness and youth.

    I disagree with the neanderthals of the above comments. Women should absolutely be able to dress as they choose (down to being starkers) where ever and whenever without fear of molestation, the only person at fault if they are molested is the molester. That needs to be a foundational principle any society as free as ours is – individuals are responsible for their own actions, and may not blame others for choices they make.

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  25. KevinH (1,257 comments) says:

    Young women who dress in short skirts and tight revealing tops do so because they want to be noticed, to stand out and get attention from males. There is nothing sinister or untoward about this behaviour it is just young women expressing their newly developed fertility and sexuality.It is an activity driven by primal urges, to procreate and is mirrored throughout most sentient species on this planet.
    Like it or not males are attracted to females who appear fertile and presumably available for copulation.Therefore under pinning the emotion of this discussion is a powerful biological imperative however the majority of humanity has evolved to more sophisticated forms of attraction while some elements remain ignorantly primitive.

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  26. Chuck Bird (4,915 comments) says:

    @UrbanNeocolonialist

    I live on planet earth. What planet do you live on?

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  27. nickb (3,696 comments) says:

    I find it amusing that you were stupid enough to lend money to a lawyer in the first place, whether on his terms or yours.
    Lending money to lawyers is up there with sending money to Nigeria to inherit a fortune from your long lost great uncle.

    L M A O.

    Chuck, is this what has been driving your hatred of lawyers the whole time? That your lawyer promised you $20m if you just gave him $100,000 to pay for the estate of your unknown Spanish expat great-uncle to be released to you?

    We’re not all Nigerian scam artists, rabid blood-donating homosexuals or David Bain’s defence lawyer you know.

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  28. Viking2 (11,686 comments) says:

    Nickb. Yet to be convinced. 8( :lol:

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  29. MT_Tinman (3,322 comments) says:

    KevinH, why am I unsurprised that you don’t mention the requirement of personal responsibility and self control by (in this case) males?

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  30. edhunter (554 comments) says:

    Girls/Women have been exposing flesh & wearing as little as they can get away with since Adam was the proverbial cowboy, & ever since that time certain people have been saying well she asked for it dressed like that, well bollocks on that.
    As history has proven time & time again it doesn’t matter how old, young, fat, skinny, pretty, ugly, how clothed or unclothed a woman is, she is a candidate for sexual assault, through no other fault than being a woman.

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  31. Pete George (23,836 comments) says:

    From Rape Is A Hate Crime:

    This might be hard for a middle-aged radio jock to understand so I will write it clearly: A tiny skirt does not mean she wants to shag you. And to men of all ages, let’s say this really clearly: If you want to have sex with her, ask her, not her clothes. And then listen to what she says.

    And seriously, it is insulting to men to suggest that women can dress or behave in a way that invites rape or mitigates its criminality to any degree. Do we really think that a short skirt arouses men to such a level of sexual excitement that they can’t stop themselves forcing their penis into someone? If that’s all it takes, should any of them be allowed out, ever?

    You would have to wonder why women aren’t being constantly sexually assaulted at cocktail parties, or at the beach, or working out at the gym. You would also have to wonder why the elderly and infirm and babies are also victims of rape.

    If we can learn anything this week, let’s make it this: rape is not about sex. It is about power through violence and control.

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  32. Chuck Bird (4,915 comments) says:

    Nickb, part of my hatred of some lawyers are the arrogant know all cowards on this blog that hide behind a pseudonym and lie for clients in civil cases because they know the tricks to get away with if.

    One consolation is that this crooked lawyer has cost a lot of your colleagues plenty.

    The guy was my friend before he became my lawyer.

    Nick do you trust any of your close friends of your relations?

    It is people like you that help bring you profession into disrepute.

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  33. Chuck Bird (4,915 comments) says:

    @viking

    It is people like you that give all men a bad name by attributing blame to 13 year old rape victims.

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  34. BeaB (2,165 comments) says:

    What a dreadful time men must have trying to curb their uncontrollable lusts, driven into a frenzy by the sight of a mini skirt. You poor masturbating morons.

    You must live your lives in a frenzy – driven crazy by the glimpse of a bit of thigh or boob. You poor unregenerate sods.

    So much for centuries of evolution, education, enlightenment, even religion. When caveman says grunt, you grunt.

    When Tony Veitch says whack her, you do and still get plum jobs. When Len Brown says hit on this young woman and ejaculate over her, you do so to the applause of the populace.

    Rape a pensioner, rape a teenager, rape your wife – you can’t help yourselves. You poor helpless bastards.

    Really?

    None of the men I know behave like this but so many of you are hung up on what the females do. What about bringing up your sons to behave themselves like civilised human beings? Forget about girls and what they wear or do.

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  35. BeaB (2,165 comments) says:

    Azeraph
    You are one sick puppy.

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  36. Ed Snack (1,941 comments) says:

    Imagine that, I never knew, women dress purely to compete with and please other young women. The impact their dressing may/may not have on men never enters into it. Truly amazing, you learn something startling and new every day.

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  37. Sector 7g (242 comments) says:

    Unfortunately when we live in a society that makes excuses for criminals and allow them to walk amongst us, we have to make adjustments to how we would like to live to limit the chance to ourselves of being harmed.

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  38. gazzmaniac (2,306 comments) says:

    Chucky

    How many million dollars are you worth? It must be a few having never made a mistake.

    I have never said I haven’t made a mistake. I just haven’t made one as stupid as lending money to a lawyer (although a couple are pretty close).

    The guy was my friend before he became my lawyer.

    Don’t mix business with personal friends. And don’t lend money to acquaintances who the bank won’t lend to if you want to see it again.

    do you trust any of your close friends of your relations?

    Yes. But my previous comment stands.

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  39. birdie (17 comments) says:

    By all means lets teach our girls to respect themselves and others but even better lets teach our boys not to be rapists, not to be assholes and that no matter what they have no rights to anyone else’s body except their own.

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  40. Ed Snack (1,941 comments) says:

    BeaB, you’re one sick and twisted loon, but you know that don’t you. Never seen such a bloated and inappropriate straw man construct on KB before. Obviously if people happen not to agree with you, they must be unutterably evil. Sucks to be you I guess.

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  41. nasska (12,111 comments) says:

    Ed

    …”Imagine that, I never knew, women dress purely to compete with and please other young women.”…..

    If you’d had much to do with bringing up teenage girls you’d probably have a rethink Ed. Peer pressure from their female associates is just about everything. Part of it seems to be the cattiness of the kids themselves. If one girl differs a shade of mascara away from the considered “cool” norm she is rounded on by the rest.

    They talk about boys but even at their tender years they know that what they wear is less important to the male gender than their female friends.

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  42. cha (4,145 comments) says:

    What’s unutterably evil Ed is your suggestion that any twelve year old who may like to dress like the women she’d like to be is actually doing it to titillate the likes of yourself.

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  43. birdie (17 comments) says:

    While it is very amusing to watch middle aged men debate whether or not girls dress more for boys or for other girls as a female I can assure you that it is very much for other girls, fitting in socially and for fashion, case in point…ugg boots because they sure as heck weren’t designed to excite men!

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  44. Pete George (23,836 comments) says:

    They talk about boys but even at their tender years they know that what they wear is less important to the male gender than their female friends.

    And boys couldn’t care less what girls wear. All the randy ones care about it is removing whatever clothes are being worn.

    Girls and women have amazing clothes memories, they can remember who was wearing what at specific events going back years.

    And an irony, while females want to be seen to be fashionable and wear what is ‘in’ the worst thing that can happen is to be seen wearing the same item as someone else at an event.

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  45. nasska (12,111 comments) says:

    birdie & PG

    Teen girls are strange creatures…..the desire for acceptance within their peers seems at times to be pathetically desperate. We were lucky with ours in that they were horse mad & that gave them some social outlet where competition wasn’t solely based on dress & looks.

    And as PG pointed out they carry the same competitive attitude, albeit a little watered down, right through adulthood.

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  46. birdie (17 comments) says:

    NASA, you think teenage girls are bad? The competitveness gets far worse when a woman is in her late 30s-late 40s especially if there is a younger or slimmer model around!

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  47. Chuck Bird (4,915 comments) says:

    @gazzmaniac

    It is easy to be clever in hindsight. You think you are very clever but there are a lot of people smarter than you that have been taken in by a sociopaths in business here and overseas. As I said he has conned other lawyers. He looked one in the eye that he had know for a while and said do not worry mate you will get paid. A short while later this lawyer got stuck also with this guys barristers fees because he referred him to her.

    Fortunately, I am usually a good judge of character and make more good business decisions than bad ones. That is why I have a very comfortable retirement.

    I have since read about sociopaths. They are like paedophiles in that they can be very charming and seemly caring people. They are not all lawyer but lawyer have more than their share of them.

    I suggest you read “Confessions of a Sociopath”. It is about a 30 year old female lawyer.

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  48. Ed Snack (1,941 comments) says:

    Oh, Oh, I’m unutterable evil for something I never suggested. Cha, the loon is strong in you, seek help for your reading comprehension.

    One of the problems with these sorts of threads is that everyone’s an expert, and everyone else’s opinion is not just rubbish, but teh EVIL rubbish. At the risk of sounding like another PG, how about thinking rationally about things ?

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  49. Komata (1,223 comments) says:

    Apropos the clothes worn by young females:

    As Kowtow and others have already indicated, there is a female celebrity ‘culture’ which pushes the line that, in respect of clothes, less is better, with Kowtow’s example, and that of the somewhat-younger Miley Cyrus being but two of many. This is a culture that , because these ‘celebrities’ are role models, sends female teens messages that, irrespective of age, minimalist, sexually-explicit, ‘come-hither’ clothing is quite OK. There is of course no indication that there are downsides such things. Fashion magazines are also guilty of aiding and abetting this culture.

    However, all is not lost.

    I would suggest that, in respect of role-models, one of the most positive currently around is that of the US country and western singer Taylor Swift.

    You may not like her music, but as an example of how to be kind, demure, gracious, polite and FULLY CLOTHED this young woman can’t be beaten.

    She has publicly said that she sees little point in removing her clothes in an attempt to gain fans and is always shown a grace beyond her years and an awareness of her responsibility as a role model that few other ‘celebrities’ have been able to match. Certainly there is no current female entertainer in any genre’ anywhere who is doing what she does. She has a huge fan-following amongst the teenage-early twenty’s female age group and sends a very positive example to whoever cares to listen, that yes, girls can have ideas, yes they can achieve, and that it is not necessary to ‘reveal all’ to gain the attention of males. Unlike many of her ilk she also doesn’t reveal her private life or ‘names names’ (although the MSM try to ‘encourage’ her to do so, then get al aggro’ when she doesn’t).

    That her tickets sell-out within minutes for all her concerts and that she routinely fills stadia to overflowing is an indication that what she is resonates with young teenage girls.

    Typically, a certain Lorde (world famous in her own mind) dissed Taylor Swift and stated with all of her 16 years of ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY about everything, that (my paraphrase) Taylor Swift’s example was ‘unattainable’ and ‘unrealistic'; a statement that says more about Lorde than about Taylor Swift. Lorde later made a token retraction but her initial comment was ‘revealing’.

    Swift has a huge fan-following (as already noted), and is hated with a passion by many within the music and entertainment industry who would just love to ‘dish the dirt’ and destroy her. That she is also blonde, beautiful, and very money-savvey and successful (through her own efforts BTW) doesn’t exactly help.

    As I said, although her music may not be to everyone’s taste, she is an example to be emulated.

    The MSM, because she is so ‘squeaky clean’ would rather try to find something against her than recognise her importance as a role model.

    Why am I not surprised?

    PS: If anyone is interested, ‘Swift is in NZ in the last week of November (and no, I am not in any way associated with her; in case anyone wonders).

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  50. Fletch (6,532 comments) says:

    A woman named Jessica Rey in the U.S has started a new line of fashion swimwear that is more modest. In the video below she points out that stars of the past such as Audrey Hepburn wore modest swimwear but could never be said to be prudes. They just had taste and style.

    When the bikini was invented, they had to be modelled by strippers because no self respecting model would wear one.

    She reports on a study that examined brain scans of men when looking at scantily clad women. It turned out that the area of the brain that lit up was the one associated with tools, like screwdrivers and hammers. Some men in the study showed zero brain activity in the medial pre-frontal cortex which is the part of the brain that lights up when one ponders a person’s thoughts, feelings and intentions. It’s as if they are reacting to women dressed this way as though they are things, and not human; objects and not people.

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  51. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Fletch

    That is an interesting topic.

    Whilst working with sex offenders we had the use of a plesmograh, a device which measures the blood flow to the penis.

    Using a variety of stimuli, responses were tested. It showed overwhelmingly that it was not visual images that got anywhere near the biggest response. Of course the responses varied between the type of sexual offender – but the device assisted in them learning what sort of things initiated their behaviour, thus giving them a chance to over come it, or at least control it.

    I really don’t think the episode that has caused so much concern this week is solely about sex or sex drive, but rather the ego, the desire to be the ‘big boy’, kingpin or whatever else you want to call it. I think the ‘gang’ prison culture, which has introduced us to rap music, pants that hang around the knees and encouraged the popularity of tattoos, also has other aspects that have impacted our young people, including the ‘conquest king’ image, which also includes the denigration of the victims. It is more about egos and power, than achieving ejaculation.

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  52. nickb (3,696 comments) says:

    It is people like you that help bring you profession into disrepute.

    I think our profession is already in disrepute without the help of your friend and former lawyer Mr Abudawo :)

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  53. Fletch (6,532 comments) says:

    I think the ‘gang’ prison culture, which has introduced us to rap music, pants that hang around the knees

    I heard somewhere that this baggy pants thing which shows the underwear was started in prison by inmates of a certain sexual persuasion to let other men know they were “available’.

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  54. big bruv (14,224 comments) says:

    Fletch

    “I heard somewhere that this baggy pants thing which shows the underwear was started in prison by inmates of a certain sexual persuasion to let other men know they were “available’.”

    Whoever told you that was talking rubbish. While there is a link to prison culture the awful fad of a few years ago where shoes were worn without laces it similar to the current stupid fad with baggy pants.

    As many people know shoes and belts are removed from inmates, hence they have baggy pants and no laces in their shoes. Some Neanderthal (no doubt from the USA) decided that this was “cool” and turned it into street fashion. It has nothing to do with sexual behaviour.

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  55. Fletch (6,532 comments) says:

    Using a variety of stimuli, responses were tested. It showed overwhelmingly that it was not visual images that got anywhere near the biggest response.

    Judith, interesting.
    I was of the understanding that it has long been known that men were aroused by visual stimuli and women by written or by words. That’s why magazines with pictures (Playboy, Penthouse, etc) are geared largely toward men, whereas books and the written word (Harlequin, Mills & Boon, 50 Shades) are aimed at women.

    We work in different ways.

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  56. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ fletch

    I’m not saying visual stimuli did not get any response, it just wasn’t the stimuli that returned the most responses by a significant percentage. Smell was something that produced the highest results, especially in pedophiles.

    But lets not forget that these were not ‘ordinary’ people that were being tested. They were all convicted sex offenders that agreed to take part, therefore accepted their convictions. Hence they were people who had demonstrated some form of deviancy in their sexual behaviour.

    I remember some stuff in a psychology paper that said both men and women’s brains showed responses to visual stimuli and associated arousal however that men processed it quicker than woman and therefore were aroused quicker. They believed it was a natural response to ensure the male ‘struck’ quickly, in order to ensure his genes were passed on!

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  57. eszett (2,450 comments) says:

    Whoever told you that was talking rubbish.

    Did that ever stop Fletch believing it and mindlessly repeating it as gospel (pun intended)?
    Fletch will believe anything, no matter how idiotic and absurd, as long as it fits with his preconceived notions.

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  58. Fletch (6,532 comments) says:

    Judith interesting.

    Did the study take into account that the stimulus must become more and more intense to get results? By that, I mean that when these people start out, looking at porn magazines might be enough, but then that wears off and they need more stimulus (maybe blue movies) and getting more and more deviant to the point where even normal sex does not turn them on.

    It’s like a drug addict might start out with marijuana, but eventually they need a bigger hit and progress up to cocaine and heroine.

    Dr Donald Hilton has an interesting address at the link in which he says that studies prove that sexual addiction is as much an addiction as drugs (which I think we know), but also that addictions can actually damage the brain (even sexual addiction).

    As the desensitization of the reward circuits continues, stronger and stronger stimuli are required to boost the dopamine. In the case of narcotic addiction, the addicted person must increase the amount of the drug to get the same high. In pornography addiction, hard core replaces soft core, and progressively more shocking images are required to stimulate the person. As a feedback of sorts, the frontal lobes also atrophy, or shrink. Think of it as a ‘wearing out of the brake pads.’ This physical and functional decline in the judgment center of the brain causes the person to become impaired in the ability to process consequences of acting out in addiction. Addiction scientists have called this condition hypofrontality, and have noted the similarity in behavior in the addicted to the behavior of patients with frontal brain damage.

    As neurosurgeons, we frequently treat people with frontal lobe damage. In a car wreck, for instance, even with an airbag the brain decelerates into the back of the forehead inside the skull, bruising the frontal lobes. Patients with frontal lobe damage exhibit a constellation of behaviors we call frontal lobe syndrome.

    First, they are impulsive, in that they will thoughtlessly engage in activities with little regard as to consequence. Second, they are compulsive. They become fixated or focused on certain objects or behaviors, and have to have it, no matter what. Third, they become emotionally labile, and have sudden and unpredictable mood swings, and fourth, they exhibit impaired judgment.

    So cortical hypofrontality, or shrinkage of the frontal lobes causes these four behaviors, and can result from a car wreck or from addiction!

    Lets look at studies examining drug addiction and the effect on frontal lobes. This is a study on cocaine addiction published in 2002,9 and it shows volume loss, or shrinkage, in several areas of the brain, particularly the frontal control areas. What about methamphetamine? This study from 2004 shows very similar results

    Of course, we expect drugs to damage the brain, so these studies don’t really surprise us. Consider, though, a natural addiction such as overeating leading to obesity. Your might be surprised to know that a study published in 2006 showed shrinkage in the frontal lobes in obesity which was very similar to the cocaine and methamphetamine studies!11 And pertinent to our subject, a study published in 2007 imaging the brains of persons exhibiting severe sexual addiction looked almost identical to the cocaine, methamphetamine, and obesity studies.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/85912001/donald-hilton-address-pornography

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  59. Fletch (6,532 comments) says:

    Did that ever stop Fletch believing it and mindlessly repeating it as gospel (pun intended)?

    eszett, did I start off my comment by saying, “it’s actually true”, or “we know that”?
    No, I said, “I heard somewhere”, which means exactly that: I heard it somewhere.

    As far as believing something as “gospel”, I think that both conservatives and liberals are guilty or reading things and posting them verbatim. I try to look into something these days before I post it – follow the source down to where it comes from and then decide if I can trust what is being said more than not.

    I was saying to someone the day before yesterday though – as far as sources, who can really be trusted?
    If I went and interviewed a politician or something and reported on what he’d told me, i doubt anyone would believe me. If it comes from a big network like CNN or MSNBC it is more likely to be believed though, just because it is a big network, but I’m not sure this should be so.

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  60. Left Right and Centre (3,016 comments) says:

    You poor masturbating morons.

    It’s a terrible truly punishing existence :)

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  61. Left Right and Centre (3,016 comments) says:

    chuck – gazza is just one of those irritating fuckwits that you’ll find on blogs. What can you do ?

    I don’t know what percentage of good friends could be trusted – I’ve got a friend that I feel I can trust 100% not to rip me off over anything. It’s perfectly reasonable and acceptable. I’m sorry to see you got so badly burnt, but glad that you’re still in a good enough position. I’ve enjoyed most if not all of your posts.

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  62. Left Right and Centre (3,016 comments) says:

    I like fashion – I like seeing what people wear – men or women. Of course a well-dressed woman is more exciting for me being a bloke – but you notice things. The kind of people that are drawn to KB I think are observant of people and detail and trends etc.

    I see young girls – they look like shit. They dress like shit. They look like punks. Who are they dressing for ? I don’t know – is it – a Mad Max themed dress-up party? They deck themselves in scruffy, scroungy grey and black rough looking faded jeans – clothes without any shape – casual nasty shit – mis-matching clashing crap – dreadful drab grating colours or lack of colour.

    When I do venture into town – the women look appalling, not appealing. And the blokes !! The blokes are awful. The women look trashy, nasty, cheap and tatty. Scrapheap and ratty. I think they purposely set out to look as ugly as possible. The clothes are not flattering, they’re detracting. Distracting for the wrong reasons. Visual pollution. Not helped by an obesity epidemic that means that young NZ girls are some of the fattest overfed westerners waddling around on planet earth.

    I don’t bother going into town because the people are so badly dressed and unattractive it’s too much to look at and be around. What is the point of their fashion choices ? Just to cover the body up. Might as well wear a pink charity clothing sack.

    Are we having fun yet ? :) ;)

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  63. eszett (2,450 comments) says:

    eszett, did I start off my comment by saying, “it’s actually true”, or “we know that”?
    No, I said, “I heard somewhere”, which means exactly that: I heard it somewhere.

    Really, Fletch? That’s your defence?
    Maybe you should precede all your post with a disclaimer: “No critical thinking or research was done for this post”

    Because awful lot of your posts turn out to be complete and utter bollocks

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  64. Azeraph (612 comments) says:

    BeaB (1,806) Says:
    November 10th, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    No i’m not sick but i’ve been around our fairer sex so much in my lifetime that it has driven me mad, mad at stopping the crazy things at my man cave’s door. Let no lady cross that hallowed threshold. My garage. When my girls were young my house became a frikkin haven for those lost and fucked up ones they would drag home like sick wounded birds, of course we caved in and allowed them to stay.

    Those were the most stressful times in my life due to the fact that the more young females a house gathers the budget quadruples exponentially. In the end i put a stop to it, my girls hearts were open and free but it could not feed the world.

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  65. RRM (10,104 comments) says:

    In my worldly experience, the women you don’t want to see in a miniskirt are often heard criticising women you DO want to see in a miniskirt, for wearing miniskirts…

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  66. birdie (17 comments) says:

    RRM very true and men who have no chance with young attractive women are usually the first to call them slags or sluts for how they dress

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