Key and English on Q+A

November 11th, 2013 at 12:00 pm by David Farrar

A Q+A interview with John Key and Bill English:

CORIN Do you ever have any big disagreements though on direction in terms of whether you’re going far enough to the right or whether you should be pushing harder on something?

JOHN I’d say no. One of the big advantages is that we’re both central-right, so I think we’re smart enough to work out that if we want an enduring policy, then we need to make change that we can take the public with us. And over the course of the five years, we’ve demonstrated that. So if you look at the Business Growth Agenda, you know, that’s our economic framework. That is 366 individual changes that we’re making. None of them we would, in isolation, argue is going to turn the dial, but in totality, they are turning the dial significantly in favour of NZ being a higher-growth, competitive economy.

CORIN Do both of you want to stay on right through next term if you win?

JOHN Yep.

I think there is no issue that they want a third term. I’m not sure if they get a third term, that the PM would seek a fourth term.

CORIN You two don’t have a Brown-Blair agreement when it comes to potential succession?

JOHN No. And the truth is that we’ve got a broad caucus, and there’s lots of people you could point to that actually could come through, depending on the timing. I think there’s a range of people, both on the front bench and people who are emerging.

CORIN Could I pick you up on that? So we’ve got Steven Joyce and Judith Collins. They’re both frontrunners. Have you got any preferences?

JOHN Uh, well, a) it probably almost certainly wouldn’t be our choice. If you’re talking about the leader, it wouldn’t be my choice, because I wouldn’t be part of the caucus. The caucus would be making that decision, and if they were doing a coup, then they wouldn’t be coming to consult me on it, so we’re not too worried about that.

I like how the PM just talks openly about the reality that incumbent leaders normally don’t get a say in their successors. However that does change if the leader leaves on their own timetable.

CORIN Prime Minister, what about you? If you didn’t get across the line, is that it for politics for you?

JOHN Well, I don’t have a plan B. In other words, what happens if we lose the election? I’m totally focused on winning the election. But I’ve been reasonably upfront with people, saying that, you know, eventually, if you lose an election, generally there’s a change of leader. If there’s a change of leader, I don’t think it’s actually healthy to get in the way of the next leader. And most prime ministers that have lost elections haven’t stayed around long, long-term. But in the end, I hope we win, and I hope we get to stay there, because it’s very much unfinished business.

I don’t think anyone expects the PM would stay around if he lost the election.

CORIN The election next year; are we looking at a November election, essentially?

JOHN Uh, not guaranteed. I mean, we’re certainly picking an election at the back end of the year. There’s no reason to go early, but we’ll just need to think about that window of when it would make perfect sense. There are issues that we have to consider. Australia hosting the G20 at the end of the year, bits and pieces like that. So we’ll just sort of think that through, but, look, it’s in that window, I think, of sort of September to November roughly, but we’ll make an announcement sometime next year.

The G20 is mid November so that might discourage a November election. However we do not normally attend the G20. Maybe we will get a special invite as Australia is hosting it?

Tags: , ,

219 Responses to “Key and English on Q+A”

  1. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “One of the big advantages is that we’re both central-right, so I think we’re smart enough to work out that if we want an enduring policy, then we need to make change that we can take the public with us.”

    That sentence right there demonstrates why National have failed to change the political character of this nation the way it needed to be changed.

    In clinging to the security blanket of “centre right”, Key and English have been too timid to advance ideas and actions that will drag NZ from the socialist mire.

    “Centre right” is in reality just a euphemism for slightly less left than the Labour Party, who are way over to the left and nowhere near the centre.

    The Nats are failing in their duty to drag the political psyche of this country far to the right of where it is today. If they did that, they could restore the perceived “centre” to its real place on the political spectrum. Not far to the left as it is now.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 22 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. Pete George (23,159 comments) says:

    The Nats are failing in their duty to drag the political psyche of this country far to the right of where it is today.

    There’s a fundamental problem with that hard right dream – democracy.

    And there’s a major disconnect between “the political psyche of this country” and the political psychosis of Redbaiter.

    Vote: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. nickb (3,673 comments) says:

    The only major disconnect PG is between the UF Party and the NZ public. Mr 0.1% will never be the answer to anything I’m afraid.

    I hear a telephone booth has been pre-booked for next year’s conference.

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Yes, Maggie Thatcher and Ronald Reagan were “undemocratic”.

    FFS…

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 9 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. Pete George (23,159 comments) says:

    Maggie Thatcher and Ronald Reagan were “unNew Zealanders”.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 10 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. RRM (9,600 comments) says:

    Weddy @ 12:10pm: suck eggs :-P

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. RichardX (326 comments) says:

    And there’s a major disconnect between “the political psyche of this country” and the political psychosis of Redbaiter.

    Brilliant line!!

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    It is a sad state of affairs in NZ politics when National is considered “centre-right”. If it was the case in the past, it no longer holds true.

    The National Party is a piss-weak, watered-down, diluted copy of socialist Labour. What pink is to red, National is to Labour.

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 9 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. RRM (9,600 comments) says:

    What pink is to red, manhole is to wedbaiter.

    Fixed.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. Cato (1,095 comments) says:

    I agree with Peter George. There is such a thing as the “Overton Window” and it wouldn’t be responsible for the National Party to position itself outside of it. It’s up to those of us in the wider society to set the conditions under which politicians share the same concerns and priorities as us. If you do that, parties seeking government will follow as easily as night follows day.

    That’s easier said that done – but it’s democracy. Politics is the art of the possible.

    To an extent – the paradigm is exemplified by Peter Dunne who provides the most transparent window into the soul of politicians. He is a man without much in the way of principles apart from self-benefit. He consistently opts for meaningless, highly technical ministerial portfolios. He was once a sensible centrist. Then, when he thought there was a niche in campaigning against homosexuals he became a kind of Christian conservative. Then, when he thought he could score a few more points with outdoorsmen he hoovered up Outdoor Recreation. When the winds changed, he dropped the moral conservatism. Casting around for an ideology to see he has more latterly opted for a “Liberal Democrat” persona – which is apt given the existential crisis the UK Lib Dems find themselves in. I take it on the weekend he has decided that he will now be a ‘sensible environmentalist’ as he obviously thinks there is mileage in attacking the Greens if they look like they might participate in government.

    If you want to really change the parameters of politics in this country, you need to think: “what would it take to get Peter Dunne to change his stance on this issue.”

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. thedavincimode (6,578 comments) says:

    “what would it take to get Peter Dunne to retire change his stance on this issue.”

    There ya go.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. Cato (1,095 comments) says:

    That would be nice also – but he has his uses as a weathercock.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    Witty, ironic, and expressed with very good taste.
    Thank you, Cato for exposing the unscrupulous Dunne’s chameleonic soul.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Its funny how the commenters who most frequently complain about commenting restrictions on my own blog are seen here unleashing bitter personal attacks rather than addressing the issue.

    This is part of Key and English’s job. As dififcult as it is, they just have to penetrate the shallow or one dimensional political intellects of these incoherent losers. Install some real perspective and drag them to a position where they actually have some knowledge of politics outside of the severely crippled window of opportunity that currently exists.

    If Key and English can achieve this feat, the simpleton trolls might have some improved political reference points which should enable them to argue with at least some degree of substance. Rather than just sneer in abject ignorance.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    @davinci: A few hot telephone calls and follow-up e-mails from Andrea, maybe?

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. stigie (965 comments) says:

    If we all had it your way Reddy, we would be grabbed by the scrotum and biffed out in one term ole chap,

    Steady as she goes Reddy, steady as she goes !!~

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. Pete George (23,159 comments) says:

    A conservative idealist might think that a politician or party can remained anchored to one set of policies forever but it wouldn’t be responsible to never consider changing times and the changing needs and wants of a country.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    A conservative idealist might think that a politician or party can remained anchored to one set of policies forever but it wouldn’t be responsible to never consider changing times and the changing needs and wants of a country.

    Unforgettable words from Mother Teresa, aka Don Quixote, aka Ned Flanders, on 11 November, 2013.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. thedavincimode (6,578 comments) says:

    Manolo

    I wouldn’t wish to speculate, but the leak fiasco has proven that he has the same rhinoceros hide and shameless indifference to standards of behaviour as his erstwhile liebour colleagues, so perhaps options that seek out a potentially soft underbelly are the way to go.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “Famous words from Mother Teresa, aka Don Quixote, aka Ned Flanders, on 11 November, 2013.”

    The principles that underpin a belief system and an effective political party do not change just because the date has changed.

    The principles that underpin traditional Conservatism are designed to be the most effective principles against government tyranny, and weather it is 1813 or 2013 those principles will still be the same steady honest and true antidote to cultural and political totalitarianism.

    Those who say principles should change or be discarded as times go by are just unknowing braindead robots repeating effete prog crap designed to empower and institutionalise the left as the default political choice.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. James Stephenson (2,076 comments) says:

    There is such a thing as the “Overton Window” and it wouldn’t be responsible for the National Party to position itself outside of it.

    Which is all fair enough, but it’s perfectly possible to operate in areas that nudge that window wider in the direction you want to go, and as Red quite correctly says, any party calling itself any form of “Right” has a duty to do more than simply slow the seemingly inexorable leftwards and statist drift. That’s difference between “leadership” and the John and Bill show.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. James Stephenson (2,076 comments) says:

    A conservative idealist might think that a politician or party can remained anchored to one set of policies forever but it wouldn’t be responsible to never consider changing times and the changing needs and wants of a country.

    Is anyone surprised that our resident UF supporter can’t tell the difference between “principles” and “policies”? Nah, thought not.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. Pete George (23,159 comments) says:

    Manolo, at least Red occasionally states his preferences, your pink is perpetually peevedl. Have you ever said what party or politics you would be happy with? Or is happy not in your vocabulary?

    Good to see Red finally say how far back he wants to take us – to 1813.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Whether before the off topic trolls leap in.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. Cato (1,095 comments) says:

    Again, I agree to an extent with Peter George but with a few refinements. I don’t think that a politican should change his beliefs to suit the tone of the times. I think that’s the path to hell, actually, because you’ll soon end up with an “ends justifies the means mindset” where the only ends are power or keeping your teeth tightly on the public teat.

    However, I agree that a politician or party should calibrate their priorities and public pronouncements to what’s actually achieveable in the context of the times and wants of a country. I don’t think it’s justified to support gay marriage because you want to be on ‘the right side of history’ but I do think it’s justified not to die in a ditch over it because you don’t think that will do much good.

    A fine distinction, perhaps – but a morally important one.

    Occasionally you will get a politician of such prodigious talent that he or she can shift the electorate using personal suasion. Those people are exceeding rare though and I wouldn’t chastise any politician for judging that they coulnd’t pull that off.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    ‘That’s difference between “leadership” and the John and Bill show.’

    Thanks Jimmy.

    You have nutshelled it so well.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. thedavincimode (6,578 comments) says:

    Pete

    Anchored to set of policies? And what exactly is it that a set of polices meant to achieve?

    Rhetorical question of course. We know that it is whatever appears fair, sensible and reasonable to Dunne at any particular point in time and that it can include leaking of confidential Ministerial information as it suits him.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “Those people are exceeding rare”

    And getting rarer when the whole of the political and social culture is aimed at training its citizens TO ALL THINK THE SAME.

    What do the gormless Nats do to change this disgusting circumstance?

    I’ll tell you.

    Nothing. They surrender to it.

    Just look at the Young Nats, a pathetic Toyota political model with only tail lights and grille design that differentiates it from Labour’s Honda.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 9 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. RRM (9,600 comments) says:

    Hating everything is the only principled, consistent position.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. Pete George (23,159 comments) says:

    What do the gormless Nats do to change this disgusting circumstance?

    I’ll tell you.

    Nothing. They surrender to it.

    Leadership is dealing with the worst financial crisis in a generation and the worst natural disaster in a generation and emerging from them better placed than most countries in the world.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. Cato (1,095 comments) says:

    Peter George might be a UF supporter but I don’t think he’s actually free of principles – if only because he’s so idiotically sanctimonious.

    However, whatever Peter Dunne’s principles really are I cannot tell. And, as the [Beige] Badger himself said whilst laying into his former UF teammates in the Conservatives, perception is reality when it comes to politics.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. nickb (3,673 comments) says:

    Leadership is dealing with the worst financial crisis in a generation and the worst natural disaster in a generation and emerging from it better placed than most countries in the world.

    Exactly. Which is why establishing the Families Commission and Game Animal Council put Peter Dunne up there as one of the great leaders and statesmen of our generation.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. James Stephenson (2,076 comments) says:

    Leadership is dealing with the worst financial crisis in a generation and the worst natural disaster in a generation and emerging from it better placed than most countries in the world.

    Being lucky enough to be driving a country with an economy based on the most indespensible of primary production, and then sensible enough to sit tight and not make any sudden moves isn’t really leadership. We still have “Working for other peoples’ families”, which in Opposition was “Communism by stealth”…

    Tony Abbott telling the UN to get stuffed is leadership.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. Pete George (23,159 comments) says:

    This thread is supposed to be about Key and English, interesting that some are far more obsessed with someone else. As RRM said, hating everything is the only principled, consistent position – of those who are forever frustrated by futility knowing their political “principles” will never eventuate.

    Telling organisations to get stuffed might work if you have the size and strength to carry it off. Key could also join the call to tell Sri Lanka to get stuffed. And they would then probably tell Fonterra to get stuffed.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. RRM (9,600 comments) says:

    Whereas you’re more of a Mk 7 Jaguar political model eh Weddy?

    Pretty fast back in its day, getting a bit long in the tooth now but in a straight line it can still give young idiots a run for their money.

    (Or it would, IF it wasn’t permanently on blocks in the back of the shed with a seized engine and rust coming through just about everywhere. But, unfortunately…. it is.)

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. tvb (4,234 comments) says:

    The National Party is middle NZ. It represents evolutionary change not radical change. The Key Government listens to all sides of the debate and then crafts a compromise that meets the concerns of the average punter. It can this this far more skilfully than Labour who are oddball characters at the margins of society.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. Cato (1,095 comments) says:

    @Peter George, the thread very quickly came to be about whether Key and English are principled politicans. Perhaps that’s off topic, but you can’t be surprised that any discussion about political opportunism will soon feature Peter Dunne.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. Pete George (23,159 comments) says:

    We still have “Working for other peoples’ families”, which in Opposition was “Communism by stealth”…

    I never liked Working for Families, but if National had scrapped that when they came into office it would probably have done major damage to a rapidly ailing and economy.

    Armchair idealists don’t have to consider consequences.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. Pete George (23,159 comments) says:

    Funny Cato. Gordon Copeland and political principles? He jumped from the party that got him into Parliament, remember?

    but you can’t be surprised that any discussion about political opportunism will soon feature… Winston Peters? Colin Craig?

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. Cato (1,095 comments) says:

    @Redbaiter: “And getting rarer when the whole of the political and social culture is aimed at training its citizens TO ALL THINK THE SAME.”

    I agree – so the answer is not to rail against the politics shaped by the culture, but to try to change the culture that controls the politics.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. stigie (965 comments) says:

    Armchair idealists don’t have to consider consequences.

    Yep, that about sums it up.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. Cato (1,095 comments) says:

    @Peter George.

    I don’t agree there. I have a clear idea in my mind’s eye about what Peters’ stands for. I don’t agree with his views – but I think he’s basically a protectionist conservative populist in the tradition of Robert Muldoon or Pat Buchannan. I think Colin Craig has basically the same beliefs. Both might enter into deals which are surprising or seemingly inconsistent, but I don’t get the sense that they are nihilists.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. Pete George (23,159 comments) says:

    @Redbaiter: “And getting rarer when the whole of the political and social culture is aimed at training its citizens TO ALL THINK THE SAME.”

    Cato, you do realise that Redbaiter wants everyone to think and do the same as him don’t you? He’s not programmed to cope with anyone who thinks differently.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. Cato (1,095 comments) says:

    @Peter George,

    Sorry – but invoking Gordon Copeland a pretty bone-headed example, Gordon Copeland quite the party ON a point of principle – namely that he opposed a policy – the criminalisation of smacking. Not only that, but his resignation was doubly principled given that Peter Dunne had set himself up as some sort of Christian Conservative and then reneged on that platform.

    I don’t think that “the career of Peter Dunne” is a valid political principle sorry.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. thedavincimode (6,578 comments) says:

    so the answer is not to rail against the politics shaped by the culture, but to try to change the culture that controls the politics.

    Exactly, but unfortunately a concept beyond the grasp of those who seem to prefer that we would by now be in year two of another labour/green/peters government.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. Pete George (23,159 comments) says:

    Cato – so if the Conservatives get a few MPs into Parliament Colin Craig won’t mind when they all resign when they oppose a party policy?

    One of the strengths of Key and English is their ability to work well together even though they disagree on some things. That applies to National as a party as well. And NZ First but that’s because they have one person calling all the shots. Is that how you thought the Conservative Party might be similar to NZ First?

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. Cato (1,095 comments) says:

    Let me put it this way. As a matter of personal morality and public policy I am against elective abortion because I believe it is the unjust termination of a human life. It is the most importand issue for me. Should I therefore only vote for a party that has no chance of winning because it promises to ensure the law, as written, is correctly implemented?

    Not necessarily. Whether I like it or not, the majority of New Zealanders don’t agree with me. If the abortion debate was to be re-opened as a matter of public policy, then I’m not confident things wouldn’t get worse. My prudential judgement tells me that I should support politicians? Politicians who I believe are more receptive to a pro-life message (like Bill English or Judith Collins) and who could be persuaded to take some steps in my direction? Or out and out out-and-out crusaders on the issue who will be easily marginalised? What will do more actual good?

    If use my vote in that way, while doing everything I can to firmly and effectively, push against the abortion culture in my own family, friends, community and neighbourhood – am I a traitor to my conscience?

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. Cato (1,095 comments) says:

    @Peter George – I am sorry, but I find it laughable that you think it is a sign of a lack of principal that Gordon Copeland resigned from United Future rather than support Peter Dunne. Perhaps I overestimated you. If so, it’s an interesting mindset into how your mind works.

    I am fairly certain that nearly every other person would think it would be betraying what he actually believed to support Peter Dunne would be to show a lack of principle.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. Pete George (23,159 comments) says:

    Cato at 2.22 pm, that sounds like what you accuse Dunne of. Welcome to pragmatic politics.

    Cato at 2.26 pm – it’s a fundamental principle of democracy that if you get elected with a party for three years you stick with it for three years.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. Cato (1,095 comments) says:

    No – I accuse Dunne of having no discernable principles.

    I don’t equate what I do to be the same as campaigning strongly against civil unions and the ‘gay agenda’ in very strong terms one day, and then turning around and proclaiming that you are a social liberal the next.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  51. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    Cato at 2.22 pm, that sounds like what you accuse Dunne of. Welcome to pragmatic meretricial politics.

    Fixed for you.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  52. Cato (1,095 comments) says:

    @Peter George – I don’t think that’s a fundamental precept of democracy at all. I think sticking to the policy agenda you sought election under is though. For example, I would consider it a betrayal of principle to run for office as the leader of a social conservative, pro-life party only to vote against those principles when actually in office.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  53. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “the answer is not to rail against the politics shaped by the culture, but to try to change the culture that controls the politics.”

    Yes, exactly, but that is what I am saying. Key had a major role to play in this exercise but has failed miserably, preferring to surround himself with parasitical elements from the government class and pushing their Progressive ideas rather than advocating against those ideas.

    He has made the problem worse.

    Kiwiblog (or Kommieblog to be more accurate) for example is today filled with Key loyalists who are all basically left wing Progressive stooges. Who don’t know any better because Key (and the rest of the hapless Nats) have completely failed to alert them to the fact that there are other and better choices.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 11 You need to be logged in to vote
  54. Pete George (23,159 comments) says:

    Cato – there’s a lack of discernible principles in your claim at 2.29, unless you can back them up with evidence.

    Are you aware there a significant change in support for allowing gay marriage over a couple of decades? Times and social attitudes change, with most people. There’s even a significant change in attitude in the Vatican going on. Knowledge grows and societies evolve.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  55. thedavincimode (6,578 comments) says:

    LOL … the culture ambassador …

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  56. Pete George (23,159 comments) says:

    Red – did you give yourself twenty years to change the culture of New Zealand? Or just of Kiwiblog? Neither seem to be responding yet.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  57. nickb (3,673 comments) says:

    Is that the same as the significant change in support for banning smacking UF supported?

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  58. RRM (9,600 comments) says:

    Redbaiter –

    Have you noticed that there is a slight difference in size of the readership of kiwiblog (softcock, prog-appeasing National party proggy prog blog) and Truebluenz (uncompromising, principled conservonutter echo chamber??)

    There’s a lesson in that for you. If you’re smart enough to learn it…

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  59. Cato (1,095 comments) says:

    “There’s even a signifcant change in attitude in the Vatican going on…” What on earth are you talking about? I wouldnt be so harsh on Peter Dunne if he had been mroe measured on either occasion.

    We’re not talking decades here. Peter Dunne, when the leader of what by your own standard was a Christian Conservative party, said: “The state sanctions marriage simply because marriage invariably involves children, so there’s a need to have some protections in there. I don’t think the same applies with regard particularly to same-sex relationships and I think the state should butt out.”

    Which is basically my position too.

    He then voted for the Gender Claification amendment and as late as 2012 he was against SSM. Then Barack Obama admitted he supported it, the underlying politics changed, and all of a sudden Peter Dunne had done a complete volte-face on the matter.

    Does the Peter Dunne of that moment believe the Peter Dunne of just a few months earlier was an unreasonable bigot?

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  60. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “There’s a lesson in that for you. If you’re smart enough to learn it…”

    Yes of course, why don’t people visit my blog as frequently as the do Kiwiblog when the latter gives a dozen subjects a day and I might write on a couple of subjects a month.

    Isn’t it curious that people don’t go there and read the same blog posting every day?

    Go away you mungbean troll, fouling every thread with off topic crap.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 12 You need to be logged in to vote
  61. Cato (1,095 comments) says:

    @Peter George – just anticipating your objection ok? Yep, there are plenty of other politicans who voted against civil unions and for gay marriage. From my standpoint, however, there is a key difference which is that I don’t think John Key, Judith Collins, Clayton Cosgrove and Tariana Turia really tried to make electoral hay out of their earlier opposition or to establish some sort of social conservative bona fides they didn’t really have.

    Peter Dunne did – which is why I think he’s so vulnerable to accusations of hypocrisy.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  62. Pete George (23,159 comments) says:

    by your own standard was a Christian Conservative party

    What? I’ve never said anything like that.

    United Future was formed from the merger of liberal centrist party United New Zealand and Christian-dominated conservative Future New Zealand to contest the 2002 election. United, formed as a centrist party by a group of moderate Labour and National MPs, held one seat in parliament—that of Dunne

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Future

    There was a Christian Conservative element in the party, but that was only one part, and not the Dunne part.

    You are trying to attribute to Dunne something he “didn’t really have.”

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  63. nasska (10,827 comments) says:

    ….”Isn’t it curious that people don’t go there and read the same blog posting every day?”….

    We read your repetitive, cut & pasted crap comments to the posts here everyday….surely it wouldn’t be much different. :)

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  64. Cato (1,095 comments) says:

    @Peter George I am judging United Future, as it was seen then, by this standard invoked yesterday:

    “[A] party isn’t perceived as what it claims to be or claims not to be or doesn’t claim to be, it is perceived as how it appears to be. You can say you are ‘A’ as much as you like, but that doesn’t mean you won’t be seen with a significant X.”

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  65. Pete George (23,159 comments) says:

    Cato – more things you seem to misunderstand about Dunne.

    He strongly supported the decriminalisation of homosexuality when it became an issue in the mid 1980s.

    In a 2008 interview, he suggested it may be time to review New Zealand’s abortion laws and leave the decision to a woman and her doctor, based on informed consent

    That seems contrary to some of your claims. No sign of Christian Conservatism there.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  66. Cato (1,095 comments) says:

    No I did know that – which is why it’s so hard to explain the fact that he remade United Future into a social conservative party that campaigned against Labour’s “thinking pink”.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  67. Pete George (23,159 comments) says:

    If you did know that you have been making some weird claims.

    It’s easier to explain if you understand that the party was not just Dunne. It evolved depending on the mix of people involved. That’s how politics works. Key doesn’t adhere to Muldoonism. Cunliffe doesn’t seem hot on Rogernomics. People and policies change in the real political world.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  68. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    Hey Red, go away you mungbean troll, fouling every thread with off topic crap.

    Fuck you make me laugh.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  69. Cato (1,095 comments) says:

    Yeah – except United Future isn’t a mass membership organisation emerging out of decades of grass roots activism. It was and is, to use the formulation of Rodney Hide, a personality cult minus the personality.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  70. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    P.G., stop performing internet fellatio on Dunne. Your defense of the whore goes well beyond servility.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  71. Pete George (23,159 comments) says:

    It was and is, to use the formulation of Rodney Hide, a personality cult minus the personality.

    Careful what you bring up. Some say that of the Conservative Party. UF has had a diverse evolution (multiple people, multiple parties). The CCCP started as the CCCP and appears to be still the CCCP.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  72. Cato (1,095 comments) says:

    I don’t support and won’t vote for the so-called Conservative Party. so I don’t know why I have to be particularly careful here.

    Are you really trying to tell me that UF is more ideologically coherent than the Conservatives are?

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  73. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    How did a thread about Bill English and John Key end up with Pete George going on about how much he loves the Great Cockroach?

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  74. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “Are you really trying to tell me that UF is more ideologically coherent than the Conservatives are?”

    If ideological coherency is your main criterion how could you vote and support a party so hopelessly lost in that area as the National Party?

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  75. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “Fuck you make me laugh.”

    If you haven’t noticed RRM stalks me on every thread with one or two line insults devoid of subject matter.

    What is it with you ill mannered Prog trolls that you foul every thread with off topic personal attacks apparently without the slightest shame. This is quite a good discussion. If all you’ve got to add is one line expressions of disdain for other commenters I suggest your parents must have failed miserably in their duty to raise a civil and reasonable adult.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 10 You need to be logged in to vote
  76. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    Pot. Kettle. Black. I mean Red.

    You are still making me laugh.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  77. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    OK arsehole, you want to turn this thread into a flame war then go for it.

    Fucking ignorant pig.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 11 You need to be logged in to vote
  78. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    You are still making me laugh Red. That was even funnier than the last one!

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  79. Pete George (23,159 comments) says:

    gazzmaniac – you should ask those who keep bringing him into the topic. And I have said nothing about what I think of Dunne, Manolo has an obsession with Dunne and with making things up.

    But yeah, Red can be very funny at times.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  80. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    What happened to your flame war Red? Run out of petrol?

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  81. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    I have made a number of pleas to try and keep the discussion on topic but fuckwits like you Gazza, (and nasska, Davinci and RRM, not to mention the air-headed non-contributions of PG) are so mentally crippled and unskilled in self expression (and worst of all so politically incoherent) you have nothing to offer but mindless abuse.

    Just making Kiwiblog an intellectual dust bowl dominated by ignorant knuckle dragging prog thugs who will destroy any thread they feel like in their deranged obsession to attack anyone they disagree with but lack the ability to argue with.

    So go ahead loser, convert another thread into a mindless flame war.

    That’s obviously what you want and where you feel at home.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  82. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    Nah that one wasn’t as funny, you’re losing your edge.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  83. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    P.G., you’re not only Ned Flanders but Homer Simpson rolled into one.

    After thousands of comments you’re known here as Dunne’s servant and arse-licker, one who will stoop to pathetic measures to defend his master. On the other hand, I’m never short of expressing my disgust towards a politician without principles like the MP for Ohariu-Belmont.

    Yes, you’re free to trumpet your servility towards Dunne until kingdom comes. KiwiBlog is a democratic place.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  84. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    What is funny is dropkicks like you expressing fear that your freedom will be threatened by a Conservative government when you cluster together like sheep for support and run a mile if there’s ever any chance at freedom.

    You don’t want freedom and your claim to be concerned with it being taken from you is so fake its what makes me laff Gazza.

    if any pigs deserved to be ring fenced while feeding its you and your prog mates.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  85. thedavincimode (6,578 comments) says:

    1.

    Fucking ignorant pig.

    2.

    I suggest your parents must have failed miserably in their duty to raise a civil and reasonable adult.

    3.

    so mentally crippled and unskilled in self expression (and worst of all so politically incoherent) you have nothing to offer but mindless abuse.

    The hits keep coming. How much more punishment can the Redbattlestar inflict upon itself. As Scottie would say: “Cap’n, I can’t hold her … she’s going to break up”.

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  86. thedavincimode (6,578 comments) says:

    Russell, really, can you just not see why you are such an object of ridicule? LOL, it’s nothing to do with progs and homos. It pains me to break the news ( :lol: ) but it’s just you!

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  87. thedavincimode (6,578 comments) says:

    Manolo

    I reckon Ned might have just given you a downer!

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  88. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Oh Gosh, Davinci finally found what he likes most of all.

    Nothing to say on the subject, his mates have with some effort turned this into a flame war and he’s here with bells on. Two comments in a flash would you believe.

    I can’t believe you oily repulsive cowardly people actually have friends. I don’t think you do. Well apart from those on here who are just the same kind of lowlife as yourself.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  89. Pete George (23,159 comments) says:

    Ironic Moanolo, you’re a lying hypocrite without principles, a bit like a pink Red but without the entertainment. I suppose you think you’re achieving something but it’s hard to see what.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  90. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    What is funny is dropkicks like you expressing fear that your freedom will be threatened by a Conservative government

    Where?

    you cluster together like sheep for support and run a mile if there’s ever any chance at freedom.

    Do you mean like the party you seem to support stating that they will confiscate people’s land if they don’t develop it? If that’d come from the Labour party you’d be outraged.

    You don’t want freedom and your claim to be concerned with it being taken from you is so fake its what makes me laff Gazza.

    What’s laffing? If it’s laughing you seem to bitter and full of hate to be able to partake.

    if any pigs deserved to be ring fenced while feeding its you and your prog mates.

    If you say so.

    The flame’s going out Red. And it wasn’t all that funny. Can you try again please, this time with some venom?

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  91. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    Nothing to say on teh subject, his mates have with some effort have turned thsi intoa flame war and he’s here with bells on. Two commenst in aflash would you believe.

    First they commenst then they taketh away. Thsi intoa.

    I can’t believe you oily repulsive cowardly people actually have friends.

    That’s more like the Redbaiter I know!

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  92. thedavincimode (6,578 comments) says:

    Russell, wouldn’t you be better off dreaming about your infantile fantasy of leading the revolution and going down in that hail of knuckle-dragging commie/prog/homo hail of lead with a smile on your face and the Palin photo taped over your heart?

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  93. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “The flame’s going out Red. And it wasn’t all that funny.”

    That’s because your sense of humour is seriously impaired by an IQ that’s probably only threatening the early seventies.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  94. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Kevin you’re not still bitter over getting fired from your job for being an out of touch prog know nothing are you?

    Try wisening up rather than dwelling in ignorance and bitterness.

    You come across so much as the typical bitchy queer.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 9 You need to be logged in to vote
  95. thedavincimode (6,578 comments) says:

    Still with the Kevin thing. Fail. :lol:

    (And don’t think I didn’t catch you out on that bitchy little edit :lol: !)

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  96. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    Come on Red, that’s the way. Let it all out, it’ll make you feel better.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  97. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Like failure is something that concerns you?

    Tell me another joke you sad loser.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  98. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    I’ve got a joke.

    Redbaiter!

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  99. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “Come on Red, that’s the way. Let it all out, it’ll make you feel better.”

    Why would you think I had anything to let out or feel better about?

    Learn something about self projection Gary, it will help you immensely with your obvious psychological problems.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  100. thedavincimode (6,578 comments) says:

    … proxy server about to kick into gear to rort vote count …

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  101. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    No worries Russ!

    Why would you think I had anything to let out or feel better about?

    Just your general demeanor and the content of your comments.

    Learn something about self projection Gary, it will help you immensely with your obvious psychological problems.

    Is that like Digital Self Projection in the Matrix?

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  102. stigie (965 comments) says:

    Holy shit Reddy, you say to different people here that there sense of humour is seriously impaired.

    You say you have a sense of humour, and for weeks now ive been asking where it is ! Where is it Reddy ?

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  103. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Poor Kevin, the wet little prog coward who has been so badly hurt by Redbaiter he’s never going to get over it.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  104. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    Redbaiter couldn’t hurt anyone. Redbaiter is a pussy.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  105. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “Just your general demeanor and the content of your comments.”

    That’s rich coming from you.

    Show me the comment from you on this thread that isn’t an off topic and sad expression of self hatred.

    Stigie, you want humour find yourself a blog dedicated to jokes. This is a political blog, which is why every contribution you ever make is completely worthless in terms of adding to the debate.

    Cue pitiable prog whining and allegations of (sob sob) abuse.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  106. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    Show me the comment from you on this thread that isn’t an off topic and sad expression of self hatred.

    All of them are off topic but none are a sad expression of self hatred.

    Stigie, you want humour find yourself a blog dedicated to jokes. This is a political blog, which is why every contribution you ever make is completely worthless in terms of adding to the debate.

    Sounds a bit like Reddy’s comments.

    There’s this really good blog dedicated to jokes, I think it’s called True Blue NZ or something.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  107. thedavincimode (6,578 comments) says:

    That’s an impressive effort. Impressive for the complete lack of shame in derailing a thread and then trying to claim the high ground. You and Dunne have a lot in common Russell. Are you acquainted?

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  108. thedavincimode (6,578 comments) says:

    Yep, the proxy is operational. Or is his little bum boy riding shotgun? :lol:

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  109. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    That’s an impressive effort. Impressive for the complete lack of shame in derailing a thread and then trying to claim the high ground.

    Ha ha, now that really did make me laff. You’re either the most gross and amoral hypocrite that ever lived or compeltely unable to be objective about political matters. (I think both).

    While you’re quick to highlight my transgressions you never once refer tot he numerous off topic idiocies of your prog mates who even expressed their own desire to turn this from a discussion on Bill and John and into a senseless flame war.

    Because they’re too fucked in the head and inhibited by leftist cultural habits to argue a political point.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 9 You need to be logged in to vote
  110. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    Keep ‘em coming Red, you’re making a boring afternoon interesting.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  111. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “Yep, the proxy is operational.”

    That is a laff too, when you and your prog mates are so incensed by views you don’t like it has probably inspired you to set up multiple Kiwiblog accounts just so you can vote me down.

    Just another ruse like the false allegations that I upvoted myself on Whaleoil.

    Just too channeled into the prog point of view to ever accept that you’re ideas are not as universally approved as you fool yourself they are.

    You have to lie to try and regain some ground.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  112. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    when you and your prog mates are so incensed by views you don’t like it has probably inspired you to set up multiple Kiwiblog accounts just so you can vote me down.

    Yep, we’ve got nothing better to do on the internet except vote Red’s comments on Kiwiblog down.

    This is too funny.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  113. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “Keep ‘em coming Red, you’re making a boring afternoon interesting.”

    You’re not Gazza, like every intellectually crippled far left prog troll, you soon become flat and uninspiring.

    By the way, being as mentally crippled as you are, you’ll never escape the boredom. It comes with being a drooling moron.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  114. thedavincimode (6,578 comments) says:

    highlight my transgressions you never once refer tot he numerous off topic idiocies of your prog mates

    Russell, unlike you, I have no illusions about being in charge of Team America World Police. Also, unlike you, I realise that they were only puppets.

    Now why don’t you hop back under the stairs until mummy calls you out for dinner. You’re getting way over-excited and are only compounding the damage caused by the spectacle that you make of yourself.

    Go away, and when you come back like you do after all your previous hissy fits where you’ve made a complete tool of yourself, pretend to be focussed on the issues and above the insults. Only next time see if you can make it stick.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  115. stigie (965 comments) says:

    By the way, being as mentally crippled as you are, you’ll never escape the boredom. It comes with being a drooling moron.

    Ya better add me to your list Reddy !!~

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  116. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Stigie, you’ve already added your name all by yourself.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  117. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    “Keep ‘em coming Red, you’re making a boring afternoon interesting.”

    You’re not Gazza, like every intellectually crippled far left prog troll, you soon become flat and uninspiring.

    You’re the one who is stupid enough to sit there and take it, not me. I’m enjoying myself.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  118. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    ” I’m enjoying myself.”

    Good for you. Its not unusual for psychotics like you to get enjoyment from self abuse.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  119. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    There is only one person on this thread who is self abusing, and his name is Redbaiter.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  120. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “I have no illusions”

    Yes you do Kevin, most notably the illusion that you have something worthwhile to say here when in fact every contribution is an expression of self hate the reveals you as an ignorant and witless charlatan with nothing to offer but weak and unfunny attempts to attack people who don’t share your sick prog political ideas. When it comes to argument the cupboard is bare.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 9 You need to be logged in to vote
  121. stigie (965 comments) says:

    ” I’m enjoying myself.”

    Thats the story Reddy, just what we want to hear, Good for you ole chap !!~

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  122. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    I think Kev’s illusions are similar to the illiusions of Russ.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  123. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “There is only one person on this thread who is self abusing, and his name is Redbaiter.”

    Ha ha.

    Thanks for that intelligent and thoughtful rebuttal you weak as piss loser.

    Keep enjoying yourself you infantile joke.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  124. adze (1,940 comments) says:

    I’m always amazed by commenters who say the environment is so terrible in Kiwiblog yet continue to post here.

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  125. RRM (9,600 comments) says:

    Tell me more about my off topic comments weddy. I still don’t quite get it.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  126. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “Thats the story Reddy, just what we want yo hear, Good for you !!”

    Hey moron. I never said that.

    Gormless Garry uttered that witheringly intellectual contribution.

    Get some treatment for senility. I hear euthanasia is quite a good cure.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  127. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    I’ve found the site where Red gets his witty insults!
    http://www.insult-generator.org/

    You butter sucking wart pile

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  128. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    No I don’t need to go to any site Gary.

    I’ve got a brain that works.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  129. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    You could have fooled me!

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  130. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “I still don’t quite get it.”

    You’ll never get it troll.

    You’ll go to your grave wondering why you were always referred to as that “ignorant prog troll who fucked up all the threads on Kiwiblog”

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  131. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    You’ll go to your grave wondering why you were always referred to as that “ignorant prog troll who fucked up all the threads on Kiwiblog”

    You’re confusing him for yourself again Red. Are you sure you’re OK?

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  132. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “You could have fooled me!”

    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA….!!!!!!!

    I’m aghast at such devastating and undefeatable wit.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  133. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “You’re confusing him for yourself again Red. Are you sure you’re OK?”

    That’s rich coming from a cowardly hypocritical loon who expressed his ardent desire to turn this into a flame thread and has on a number of occasions declared how much he is enjoying it.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  134. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    I’m aghast at such devastating and undefeatable wit.

    I’m aghast at your lack of it.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  135. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    That’s rich coming from a cowardly hypocritical loon who expressed his ardent desire to turn this into a flame thread and has on a number of occasions declared how much he is enjoying it.

    You managed to start the “flame war” all by yourself. All I am doing is throwing fuel on the fire.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  136. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Ha ha, as if you could ever identify the absence or presence of any intellectual quality.

    The master of the repartee that you last heard when you were 4 years old.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  137. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “You managed to start the “flame war” all by yourself. All I am doing is throwing fuel on the fire.”

    No need to go overboard to prove you’re a liar and a coward Gary, that’s a fact that’s always been most evident. You’re enjoying it so stop whining.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  138. nasska (10,827 comments) says:

    You’ve passed your use by date Baity…..you’re still raving but the old rancour & bitterness just isn’t there any more.

    Next step the knacker’s yard. :)

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  139. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Nasska, you sad bald pot smoking derelict old hill billy drop kick, why don’t you go to church and confess you fuck your sister?

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 10 You need to be logged in to vote
  140. RRM (9,600 comments) says:

    Remember that time you lied to your own readers, telling them you don’t comment here any more because kiwiblog has become a far left sewer “dripping with hate for any conservative”?

    And now here you are, playing in the sewer all afternoon with your prog friends instead of giving your enlightened conservonutter readers what they want.

    I wonder if it’s the lack of updates that has killed true blue nz, or the lying about it?

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  141. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    Nasska, you sad bald pot smoking derelict old hill billy drop kick, why don’t you go to church and confess you fuck your sister?

    Was that from the insult generator website too?

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  142. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    I wonder if it’s the lack of updates that has killed true blue nz, or the lying about it?

    I think it’s more to do with the fact that nobody cares.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  143. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “Remember that time”

    Remember the time you made an on topic comment, or something that wasn’t a baseless cowardly smear, or a lie, or just confused incoherent blather??

    I don’t either.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  144. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “I think it’s more to do with the fact that nobody cares.”

    Ha ha.

    So says the loser with one of the sickest Redbaiter obsessions.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  145. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    I don’t remember a time that Red has ever made an on topic comment, or something that wasn’t a baseless cowardly smear, or a lie, or just confused incoherent blather.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  146. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    So says the loser with one of the sickest Redbaiter obsessions.

    You really do provide good entertainment Red. I wouldn’t go as far as calling it an obsession.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  147. thedavincimode (6,578 comments) says:

    All I am doing is throwing fuel on the fire

    Without a particularly impressive outcome I must say. It seems that the old tusker has done his dash. Time for him to head off to the mangroves in the upper reaches of the Tauranga harbour and sink down into the mud.

    I’ll remember you Russell, just like I remember the bludging magpie. One the icon of laziness; the other an icon of hatred and hypocrisy but above all else, undisputed champion of the own goal. Rest easy tough guy.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  148. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “I don’t remember a time”

    Try giving up drugs.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  149. RRM (9,600 comments) says:

    You don’t deny it was a lie I notice.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  150. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “It seems that the old tusker has done his dash. ”

    A claim so adequately disproved by your own sick and obsessive infatuation.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  151. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    Try giving up drugs

    I don’t do drugs. Maybe you should though, valium might calm you down.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  152. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “You don’t deny it was a lie I notice.”

    Ha ha.

    A joke like you full of endless lies and smears expects some kind of real response?

    You progs are always so detached from reality.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  153. thedavincimode (6,578 comments) says:

    Nasska, you sad bald pot smoking derelict old hill billy drop kick, why don’t you go to church and confess you fuck your sister?

    The death rattle. It can’t be long now.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  154. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “valium might calm you down.”

    Thanks for the recommendation, obviously gained through experience.

    I’m calm, except for when I’m uncontrollably snickering at your sad intellectual inadequacy.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  155. thedavincimode (6,578 comments) says:

    RRM

    I think it was the complete lack of interest in anything there that fucked it. Or more accurately, stopped it ever getting off the ground in the first place.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  156. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “It can’t be long now.”

    Naaah, I think I’ll see you off Kevin.

    Us heteros have got much better life expectancy than your lot.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  157. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    I’m calm, except for when I’m uncontrollably snickering at your sad intellectual inadequacy.

    Have you had your blood pressure checked lately? I would have thought it’d be pretty high dealing with the stress of so much hate.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  158. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “I think it was the complete lack of interest in anything there that fucked it.”

    Ha ha, you guys are a laff a minute.

    I had to bin hundreds of worthless shitty comments from RRM and he’s still trying to post them there.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  159. RRM (9,600 comments) says:

    Except you can’t actually point to one single thing I’VE ever lied about, can you?

    Just lies and smears, all you ever have.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  160. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “I would have thought it’d be pretty high dealing with the stress of so much hate.”

    I don’t hate you Gary.

    Hate is a self defeating mindset.

    You’ll wake up to that one day I hope.

    Not looking too good at the moment tho.

    Keep enjoying yourself.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  161. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “Except you can’t actually point to one single thing I’VE ever lied about, can you?”

    Only because you are so uninteresting to me I can’t be bothered.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  162. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    I don’t hate you either Red. You do appear to hate the world though.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  163. thedavincimode (6,578 comments) says:

    Oh dear, even at the end it’s the anal thing. Almost a metaphor for his life really …

    Let yourself go Russell … put down the keyboard and let yourself float away … borne skywards on a cloud of conservonuttersim …

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  164. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    The progs here are nothing more than flag hating, freedom hating, gun banning girlywusses – metrosexuals who have shamed themselves in front of men and women their entire lifes. Pussies who get pushed around by white liberal feminists. Due to their insecurities – they even vote that way.

    Their inferiority complexes are fully justified. Ageing males who will never be men. Democracies bitches.

    Grow some balls pussies and vote for the Conservatives. Get a life.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  165. RRM (9,600 comments) says:

    and he’s still trying to post them there

    Yet another lie, I haven’t bothered trying to troll true blue nz for over a year. You’re a diligent moderator Weddy I’ll give you that.

    Shame about all the lies though.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  166. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “Oh dear, even at the end it’s the anal thing.”

    That’s so obviously your thing Kevin, not mine.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  167. nasska (10,827 comments) says:

    And the title of Blog Bitch remains with Baity for another year. :)

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  168. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “You do appear to hate the world though.”

    Ha ha.

    You guys really are a riot.

    I’m meant to be impressed by how things appear to a knuckle dragging loser like you?

    What discernment would a thug like you ever be capable of?

    Keep enjoying yourself.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  169. RRM (9,600 comments) says:

    Only because you are so uninteresting to me I can’t be bothered.

    LOL is that code for “i apologise for my baseless smear?”

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  170. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “And the title of Blog Bitch remains with Baity for another year.”

    Who are you to be endowing anyone with a title?

    Nothing but an arrogant puffed up country bumpkin who has a sweetheart name for every sheep in his flock.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  171. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “LOL is that code”

    I don’t use code loser. I merely speak truth, which is the habit that incenses you so much.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  172. nasska (10,827 comments) says:

    1214, 1215, hello darling, 1217. :)

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  173. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    This has got boring. Maybe it really is time for you to go out to pasture Red.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  174. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “1214, 1215, hello darling, 1217.”

    Actually, going by your asinine thinking patterns, either your father or mother was a donkey.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  175. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “This has got boring.”

    Gosh, what happened to all the “enjoyment”.

    Getting a little weepy are we?

    Hope not.

    I really want you to keep enjoying yourself.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  176. Judith (8,240 comments) says:

    Oh Joy, another thread with Red dressed in his B&D gear.

    Someone should tuck a twenty in his garter.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  177. thedavincimode (6,578 comments) says:

    either your father or mother was a donkey

    Oops, bucket’s empty.

    I wonder who will get the job of wiping down his walls. At least now, the innocent pedestrians passing by his gate will be able to get their dry-cleaning bills back under control.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  178. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    Not weepy at all red. But your flame war seems to have gone out.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  179. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Gosh, there’s Davinci back again and calling up scatological images.

    This is the same pathetic hypocrite who was only a few comments back complaining of lack of decorum.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  180. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “But your flame war seems to have gone out.”

    My flame war is still burning vigorously loser. Its you who has needed to keep blowing on the embers right from the start.

    Mindless unchallenging and witless coward.

    Keep enjoying yourself.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  181. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “Someone should tuck a twenty in his garter.”

    Jude, go get some fresh batteries for your vibrator and leave the boys alone.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  182. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    Mindless unchallenging and witless coward.

    You found the link to the insult generator again! Red’s back in business!

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  183. thedavincimode (6,578 comments) says:

    complaining of lack of decorum

    Really? Where? More lies Russell – your stock-in-trade?

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  184. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “You found the link to the insult generator again!”

    Its no insult so much as an accurate description.

    Next time you enter a battle of wits bring yourself some armaments.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  185. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    I don’t need armaments if I am battling you in a flame war.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  186. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “lies your stock-in-trade”

    Not true, but in dealing with vermin like you, apart from my own self respect, I’m stumped at a reason as to why it would matter.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  187. stigie (965 comments) says:

    That insult generator has really worked for Reddy !

    I tried it and it would’nt work for me.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  188. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “I don’t need armaments if I am battling you in a flame war.”

    That mistaken belief probably explains why you haven’t started yet.

    Keep enjoying yourself.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  189. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “I tried it and it would’nt (sic) work for me.”

    Before something will work for you you senile old fool, you need to be working yourself.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  190. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    Reddy uses a blue pill for that.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  191. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Don’t use any pills Gary.

    One day you’ll understand that drugs are not a habit that everyone has.

    Keep enjoying yourself.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  192. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    That explains it, Red hasn’t been taking his pills.
    Better let the asylum know.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  193. RRM (9,600 comments) says:

    I’m glad we’ve got that cleared up. Weddy “only speaks truth” – when he’s not telling the most bare-faced lies that is.

    :-)

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  194. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Yes Gary, press the buzzer right now and tell them you have something to reveal to them.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  195. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    Was that meant to be a witty comeback? If so I don’t get it.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  196. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “I’m glad we’ve got that cleared up.”

    Nothing is cleared up while a dull witted POS like you is still stinking up the place.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  197. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “I don’t get it.”

    That is something that is beyond even my abilities to repair Gary.

    Keep enjoying yourself.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  198. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    It’s pretty hard to get a witticism that isn’t funny.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  199. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    For you Gary, I believe anything involving wit would be impossible to comprehend.

    Keep enjoying yourself.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  200. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Gary, Gary, come on boy, you’re still enjoying yourself aren’t you?

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  201. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Vote Conservative.

    Scare the shit out of the dumb progs who vote Labour, Watermelons (Nasska) and National.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  202. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    That awkward moment when Red realised that everyone else had gone home and wasn’t interested any more.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  203. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Cato_-

    In the remarkable outcome that you might still be around, and now that the prog trolls have apparently retreated, perhaps we could continue our cordial and interesting discussion.

    I repeat my question from much earlier-

    If ideological coherency is your main criterion how could you vote and support a party so hopelessly lost in that area as the National Party?

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  204. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “That awkward moment when Red realised that everyone else had gone home and wasn’t interested any more.”

    Whoops, underestimated Gazza’s penchant for having fun. He’s still here and still enjoying himself. Come back quick loser.

    BTW you dribbling unaware dumbfuck, there’s no “everyone”. If you think there’s anyone reading your witless infantile troll drivel you’re even more deluded than I have ever thought.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  205. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    You read it, so I guess I’m not that deluded.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  206. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    I’m reading it only because I want to give you enjoyment you poor desperate fool.

    I’m always kind and generous to the intellectually handicapped.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  207. stigie (965 comments) says:

    Some of us have enjoyed ourselves today Reddy, have you ?

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  208. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Not really stigie, I do this out of a care for improving your sad stunted political perceptions. I consider the sacrifice of time involved in educating progs about the better things in life to be dedicated to a valuable community service.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  209. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Funny, looks like Gary has left.

    How can that be when he was enjoying himself so much?

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  210. nasska (10,827 comments) says:

    We’re right in the middle of the second phase of his twenty year plan for world domination through the forces of conservatism stigie.

    We can expect a progress report any day soon. :)

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  211. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    “We’re expecting a progress report”

    More numbskulled and unparalleled arrogance.

    I don’t report to progs Narsekissa, be they dopey six toed Watermelon voting hillbillys or Wellington bureaucrats.

    BTW, I note the frequent use of the royal “we”.

    Would you prefer to be called “Your Majesty”.

    Guess it depends on what you’re wearing at the time.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  212. RRM (9,600 comments) says:

    Maybe he’s having dinner with his family, or something else equally “progressive”…?

    Looks like it’s just you weddy. Enjoy your sweet sweet victory chump. ;-)

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  213. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Thanks RRM for so politely acknowledging that you lost again.

    You must have heard my complaints and started taking lessons in civility.

    Well done.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  214. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Cato- (repost)

    In the remarkable outcome that you might still be around, and now that the prog trolls have apparently retreated, perhaps we could continue our cordial and interesting discussion.

    I repeat my question from much earlier-

    If ideological coherency is your main criterion how could you vote and support a party so hopelessly lost in that area as the National Party?

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  215. stigie (965 comments) says:

    Amazing staying power you have there Reddy. You must be on the blue pill !~

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  216. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Disappointing lack of wit there Stigie.

    You must be on a huge number of pills.

    I suspect they’re all sedatives.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  217. dime (9,607 comments) says:

    My god. If dime goes AWOL, please don’t appoint pg as my defender

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  218. thedavincimode (6,578 comments) says:

    We can expect a progress report any day soon

    nasska

    Allow me to provide you with an update on Redstilstkin’s 20 year plan.

    It’s fucked. Just like in year one.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  219. Redbaiter (7,851 comments) says:

    Wow, all the issues on all the threads that a person could comment on and the Vaseline boy has to come back to this one.

    Tells you something for sure.

    BTW, seen this?

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Key-lines-up-deal-with-Colin-Craig/tabid/1607/articleID/320895/Default.aspx#.UoCeFcQnPrR

    Loser.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.