Egypt heading towards civil war?

December 26th, 2013 at 10:38 am by David Farrar

Stuff reports:

’s military-backed interim government has declared the Muslim Brotherhood a terrorist group, criminalising all its activities, its financing and even membership to the group from which the country’s ousted president hails.

The announcement is aimed at crippling the Brotherhood and poses a dramatic escalation of the fight between the government and group, which has waged near-daily protests since the July 3 military coup that toppled President Mohammed Morsi.

Hossam Eissa, the Minister of Higher Education, read out the Cabinet statement after long meeting. Eissa said that the decision was in response to Tuesday’s deadly bombing targeting a police headquarters in a Nile Delta city which killed 16 people and wounded more than 100. The Brotherhood denied being responsible for the Mansoura attack and an al-Qaida inspired group claimed responsibility for the suicide bombing yesterday.

I don’t like the Muslim Brotherhood, but I don’t think they are a terrorist group. Trying to outlaw them didn’t work for Mubarak (made them more popular) and I doubt this will work. It is hard to see a return to democratic government, as no election will be seen a valid if the party that last won an election is banned.

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27 Responses to “Egypt heading towards civil war?”

  1. Daigotsu (450 comments) says:

    The fight against Islamicism continues…

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  2. metcalph (1,361 comments) says:

    I daresay the chances of civil war are much lower now that the Muslim Brotherhood has had a chance to rule Egypt. They’ve demonstrated their colossal incompetence to such an extent the odds of their candidate winning a new (fair and free!) presidential election are close to none. If the current regime were to ban the Muslim Brotherhood on the grounds of being “useless fuckups”, hardly anyone would complain.

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  3. lolitasbrother (478 comments) says:

    Egypt is not heading to civil war Mr Farrar, they have civil war.

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  4. Fletch (6,021 comments) says:

    The Muslim Brotherhood wants the establishment of a Sharia-enforcing caliphate. That is its purpose.
    If they are not a terrorist group, they are the root of terrorist groups.

    Their slogan is – “Allah is our objective; the Quran is our law; the Prophet is our leader; Jihad is our way; and death for the sake of Allah is the highest of our aspirations.”

    What is the ultimate goal of the Muslim Brotherhood? Although many Islamic groups have developed since the inception of the MB, many of them born of it.  Equally significant, by and large, all Sunni Islamic organizations—including al-Qaeda and the Taliban—want the same thing the Brotherhood does: a Sharia-enforcing caliphate. They differ primarily on how this goal is to be achieved.

    Consider the MB’s slogan: “Allah is our objective; the Quran is our law; the Prophet is our leader; Jihad is our way; and death for the sake of Allah is the highest of our aspirations.”

    This credo represents a statement that even the most radical, jihadi Muslim would embrace, for it captures all the essentials of radical and jihadi Islam, the sort of Islam practiced by terrorist organizations. Similarly, the Brotherhood’s English language website describes the “principles of the Muslim Brotherhood” as including firstly the introduction of the Islamic Sharia as “the basis for controlling the affairs of state and society”; and secondly working to unify “Islamic countries and states, mainly among the Arab states, and liberating them from foreign imperialism.” In other words, working to unite the Muslim world under a caliphate which it still openly insists is its ultimate goal. Indeed, not too long ago, Muhammad Badie, the current General Guide of the Brotherhood [arrested August 19, 2013], openly declared that “The Imam [Bana] delineated transitional goals and detailed methods to achieve this greatest objective, starting by reforming the individual, followed by building the family, the society, the government, and then a rightly guided caliphate and finally mastership of the world.”

    This idea of “transitional goals” and objectives for every stage is captured very well by the Brotherhood’s vision and is very easily captured by the one word that appears under the Muslim Brotherhood banner of two swords crossed over the Koran, “prepare”—a word taken from Koran 8:60: “And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrorize the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.”

    In short, the Muslim Brotherhood is dedicated to preparing the way for the coming of the caliphate—which, if history is any indicator, is much more problematic than any one, single Islamic state or terrorist organization: all Islamic conquests of non-Muslim, mostly Christian lands occurred under caliphates, including the Umayyad, Abbasid, and of course, the Turkish Ottoman State.

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/raymond-ibrahim/the-muslim-brotherhood-origins-efficacy-and-reach/

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  5. Manolo (13,357 comments) says:

    The religion of peace at its best. Love among followers of the paedophile prophet.

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  6. Jaffa (81 comments) says:

    They don’t understand Democracy.
    The minority have to accept the majority decision, not start a war!
    That way lies anarchy.
    They deserve what they’ve got.

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  7. edhunter (495 comments) says:

    Look can we just agree that democracy is not the answer for the Middle East, the list of functioning democracy’s working there can be counted on 1 hand & take Israel & Turkey(trying really hard to be part of Europe) & it’s a farce.
    Look what’s happening in Libya
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/special-report-we-all-thought-libya-had-moved-on–it-has-but-into-lawlessness-and-ruin-8797041.html
    This is where Syria is heading & only strong military intervention by the Egyptian Army will prevent Egypt following.
    Is this ideal? Off course not.
    Would I live there? Never

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  8. iMP (2,236 comments) says:

    Iraq and Iran in the north rather than Egypt in the south, is more of a worry in my opinion. I attended an EgyptianArabic service this week in Chch.

    http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/12/26/the-real-red-smaug-christmas-genocide-in-iraq-i-attend-an-arabic-service/

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  9. MH (624 comments) says:

    thank allah it is going to be just a civil war.

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  10. stephieboy (2,172 comments) says:

    IMP. A pretty fanciful and highly sweeping and generalized interpretation of Revelation 12:1 .?

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  11. Scott Chris (5,878 comments) says:

    Neat trick – depose a democratically elected government and declare it a terrorist group.

    So what if the Muslim Brotherhood was a bit wacky – fact is there has only ever been one occurrence of war being declared by one democracy on another democracy. (Britain on Finland though they never came to blows)

    Alas Egypt’s association with democracy was all too brief.

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  12. thor42 (915 comments) says:

    @Scott Chris – “So what if the Muslim Brotherhood was a bit wacky…”

    They are a lot worse than “a bit wacky”.

    http://www.investigativeproject.org/document/id/20

    Quote – “The process of settlement is a “Civilization-Jihadist Proecess” with all the word means. The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and “sabotaging” its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion is made victorious over all other religions. ”

    Note the use of the word “settlement”, aka migration. That is very important.

    Mohammad migrated from Mecca to Medina in 622CE. He is regarded as “the perfect Muslim” and all Muslims strive to emulate him as much as they can.

    Migration is so important in Islam that the *Islamic calendar itself* is based on it. It starts in the year 622 (as described), and when you see an Islamic year like (say) 1145 A.H. , the A.H. means “anno hegirae” – Latin for “in the year of the hijra (migration).”

    Do not be fooled into thinking that Muslims migrating to the West is a thing of no consequence. They are following the actions (and *goals*) of the founder of Islam – Mohammad.
    Gaddafi said exactly that when he said that “we (Muslims) will not need guns or bombs to take over Europe”.

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  13. infused (636 comments) says:

    Not a terrorist group? Holly hell. Go watch some live leak videos.

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  14. Manolo (13,357 comments) says:

    @Scott Chris: you wouldn’t call Hamas or Al Qaeda terrorists, either.

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  15. Johnboy (14,973 comments) says:

    With a bit of luck the Iranians will supply the Brotherhood and the Israelis will make a few available to Abdel Fattah el-Sisi! :)

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  16. wat dabney (3,671 comments) says:

    If kowtow has taught us anything it is that “secularists” – which in this case would be the army – are evil and should be fought at every turn by the good guys, i.e. true believers.

    So we’re rooting for the Brotherhood, right?

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  17. Johnboy (14,973 comments) says:

    We are keeping our heads down while the missiles fly wat!

    We can’t afford any other response! :)

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  18. Scott Chris (5,878 comments) says:

    Think a few of you missed my point. I repeat:

    fact is there has only ever been one occurrence of war being declared by one democracy on another democracy. (Britain on Finland though they never came to blows)

    And I don’t think that the Muslim Brotherhood that was the democratically elected Egyptian government is a terrorist organisation – but I suspect many of its members soon will be ‘terrorists’. (or rebels depending on your point of view)

    For a reasonably balanced perspective, try this from the NY Tiimes:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/26/world/middleeast/egypt-calls-muslim-brotherhood-a-terrorist-group.html?_r=0

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  19. Johnboy (14,973 comments) says:

    They were merely trying to convert an almost secular Egypt to an Islamic State by stealth Scott and Al Sisi has called their bluff.
    The winners get to call the shots and re-write history if they fancy too! :)

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  20. Johnboy (14,973 comments) says:

    The rulers of Turkey are treading the same dangerous path. :)

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  21. thor42 (915 comments) says:

    @Johnboy – “The rulers of Turkey are treading the same dangerous path.”
    Yes, they are.

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  22. thor42 (915 comments) says:

    @Scott Chris – “And I don’t think that the Muslim Brotherhood that was the democratically elected Egyptian government is a terrorist organisation”

    I beg to differ……
    http://www.meforum.org/687/the-muslim-brotherhoods-conquest-of-europe

    Quote – “Since its founding in 1928, the Muslim Brotherhood (Hizb al-Ikhwan al-Muslimun) has profoundly influenced the political life of the Middle East. Its motto is telling: “Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. The Qur’an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope.”

    Not exactly the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

    There is an excellent in-depth look at them here –
    http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/the-muslim-brotherhood-in-america/

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  23. Johnboy (14,973 comments) says:

    “Not exactly the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. ”

    I think we should send Molly the Mormon over there to give them a good sorting out thor42! :)

    I won’t post her site here for fear of religious intolerance! :)

    Just Google the old hag! :)

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  24. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    Western support for non democratic government over Moslems does the West no favours. The fall of the Shah reminds us why. It just brings in paranoia of the modern world as a Judeo Christian plot against Islam. Their response is global jihad.

    As to the jingoistic boast that those fleeing the region to live in the West are really agents of jihad by settlement – yeah right. But to respond as if this threat was credible is equally bizarre.

    The West lives down what it did in support of tyrants whether military backed regimes in South America (of elites over the poor), just as it will in support of other elites (military or royalist) in the ME. These regimes are playing the West the same way the Afrikaner did when the Soviets were seen as a threat to the West.

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  25. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    Democracy has a problem with cultural division – the religious right (creationism and end time religious Zionism) and small government Tea Party axis is difficult enough for the American system to swallow, yet the cultural divide between secular and inclusive rule and a religious order of rule in the ME is greater.

    Europe had largely decided on the former before democracy was fully established, the ME has yet to reach this consensus. Until it does then their democracy will face a cultural divide that threatens it.

    And then there are Moslem leaders like Erdogan of Turkey that see their party as the party of government by, for and of a Moslem majority and the rest as just minorities to be given sufficient rights to appease the EU. That results in a one party state type attitude where criticism and opposition is a threat to the regime as if the party and the government are always to be one and the same. But it also results from historic exclusion of religious activists from politics in Turkey – thus an either or divide that sustains the cultural divide.

    In Egypt the military was not as committed by such a goal as EU membership for Turkey, so at the first swing of popular opinion away from the government ended the brief democratic era, that they themselves had never really supported.

    They could have held a referendum to legitimise the removal of Morsi and won. That they did not seek any mandate for their action shows their contempt for democratic constraint.

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  26. Bazar (38 comments) says:

    “They could have held a referendum to legitimise the removal of Morsi and won. That they did not seek any mandate for their action shows their contempt for democratic constraint.”

    When Morsi was elected he was supposed to fix the problems of Egypt that were/are many, and draft a constitution with all factions included.

    He instead excluded everyone from drafting the constitution, except for members of the brotherhood.
    In addition he started replacing state officials from all departments, with officials that were members of the brotherhood.
    All of the pressing issues of the revolution, were ignored as he focused all his efforts in converting Egypt into a Islamic ruled nation, with the constitution being such garbage that no one could be bothered to vote for it.

    You talk about a referendum to legitimise the removal of Morsi.
    They did.
    http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/06/29/opposition-group-claims-anti-morsi-petition-has-22-million-signatures-as-feeling-of-doom-hangs-over-egypt/

    The arab spring wanted so much, was simply another dictatorship, and people were not willing to give this dictator inthe wings a full term for him to entrench himself and damage the country.

    The Army gave a vague statement telling Morsi to satisfy the public’s demands within two days, or else the generals would impose their own “road map” out of the crisis.

    In reply Morsi told Egypt that he was their president, that the brotherhood and all muslims should rally to defend him and those that would overthrow their “democracy”

    Thankfully the military threw him out hours after his broadcast, but didn’t assume control like so many people wrongly believe.

    People with jugdements about egypt should understand their sitution is unique in that its country aiming for new democracy, and it has a large majority of muslims, where demoracy is the wrong way to rule a country according to their religion and priests.

    Honestly i don’t hold much hope for egypt, but given how strongly the people protested against the islamic state, and the military evicting them, i have a lot more hope then i did last year

    edit: badly written, need my morning coffee

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  27. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    Bazar, an unaudited petition is no referendum in terms of mandate. Thus the removal of a President did not obtain a democratic mandate. As this was possible, the choice was made not to be constrained by accountability to the people. This choice, if not made by the military, was made by who else?

    You say that Egypt has a large majority of Moslems and that according to their religion (really, the issue between Moslems is between a Moslem or a secular regime, not the means of government selection) democracy is the wrong way to rule a country, are you really claiming that democracy cannot occur in a Moslem country and that they must be ruled otherwise?

    The Moslems of Egypt have made it clear enough that there is no uniformity on accepting a Moslem Party establishing an Islamic state, thus the MB over-reached itself in making moves in that direction. But a military also has no legitimacy deciding political and legal matters for the people either.

    The same anti-democratic nonsense comes from Thailand too where the Orwellian “Democrat” Party (backed by the military) say that democracy is not right when the rural poor, who vote for another party, are the majority.

    PS. the Arab spring is not “simply another dictatorship, it is the attempt to hold governments accountable to the people – to build democracy. The military will obstruct and delay till they determine on their favoured “Presidential” dictatorship. If it is Sisi, then there will be no pretence at all on whether this has been a military coup or not.

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