General Debate 13 December 2013

December 13th, 2013 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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162 Responses to “General Debate 13 December 2013”

  1. tas (527 comments) says:

    The Herald reports that Sam Blackman was stopped by Customs when returning to NZ and all his electronics were confiscated without reason. He suspects it is due to his active involvement in an anti-snooping conference.

    He claims that Customs asked for his passwords, which he gave to them. Is that legal?

    The story has been carried by international news sites and made it to #2 on the front page of reddit. It’s not a good look for NZ.

    I sincerely hope there is a good explanation, but it hasn’t been forthcoming from Customs.

    Thoughts?

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  2. iMP (2,150 comments) says:

    No rainbows over Australia. http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/12/13/aussies-overturn-gay-marriage/

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  3. duggledog (1,107 comments) says:

    ‘House Pops Up On Far North Beach’

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11171635

    ‘The owners of the house were not on-site, and a building inspector signed off the work-sheet before concrete for the foundation timber was poured. “They [council] check for boundary pegs, siting, the depth of your holes and all that carry-on, and they gave us a full pass … They didn’t even pull us up on it,” Mr O’Neill said.’

    Council inspectors. Je-sus Christ! Bet he doesn’t lose his job though

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  4. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    As usual Standard authors can make any unsubstantiated accusations they want to but if anyone questions them on it or asks questions about their links to Labour the Double Standard’s Stalin shoots. A tad over-sensitive perhaps.

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  5. Longknives (4,044 comments) says:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11171627

    Quax- “It seems that his (Browns) entitlement mentality has not changed. He has no reason to stay overnight in a hotel when he has a car and driver at his disposal 24/7,”

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  6. Azeraph (597 comments) says:

    Frikkin phone. @ Tas

    That’s not good for customs. It stinks of the GSB

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  7. tvb (3,938 comments) says:

    But the High Court did clear the way for Parliament to legislate on the matter of marriage to be between two natural persons. That would permit legislation for “gay” marriage without further legal challenge. So the case has been useful.

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  8. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    In other news from Oz it would seem that strange cult has a New Zealand connection.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2522483/Children-Australian-incest-cult-living-deformed-mute-valley.html

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  9. flipper (3,269 comments) says:

    Some things make me grumpy. Some leave me speechless, while others leave me with the feeling that many media outlets, circa 2013/14, would abandon the age old principles that underpin our system of justice in favour of a headline.

    So, with apologies in advance to those who lost their lives at Pike River, RANT MODE ON:

    “The main stream media have reached a new nadir in referring to the Pike River mine prosecution withdrawal and the $110,000 solatiums for each family, as “blood money”.
    This description is a gross misrepresentation, if not a deliberate lie.
    The families of the Pike River disaster have already received $8 million via charitable donations, $ 5 million via ACC, and have $15 million further ACC payments “in the bank” to come. This amounts to $1,075,517 for each of the persons lost – far more than paid in respect of any other tragedy (I suspect). ACC is far from perfect or equitable in many circumstances. But absent ACC the Workers Compensation (as it was known) Act would still be in its very early litigation stages, with no likelihood of an immediate settlement (for better or worse).

    The prosecution of Whittall was always going to fail because the evidential link could never be made between criminality and cause. Health and safety trial aspects appear to have been compromised by Labour Department culpability.
    It is time that Monk and his fellow blood suckers took note of the fact that it is they who are involved in “blood money” – not the previous mine owners, nor directors, nor Whittall.

    Let it go. New Zealand has been generous on this issue. But with this latest Monk charade, so far as I am concerned, never again.”
    … RANT MODE OFF !
    Question: Where does this leave Cunners and his “promise” to get shareholders to pay????

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  10. Longknives (4,044 comments) says:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11171609

    “Craig’s credentials as a serious politician were further eroded when he was reported recently as saying he admired Sarah Palin – one of America’s Most Whacky.”

    What the fuck? Was this actually written by a major newspaper’s ‘Political Editor’? Or was it written by a twelve year-old??

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  11. duggledog (1,107 comments) says:

    Kowtow:

    New Zealand IS a strange cult!

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  12. Azeraph (597 comments) says:

    Pallins a hot chick

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  13. tvb (3,938 comments) says:

    I agree flipper. The media are giving prominence to those who are in full victim mode. As you said “let it go” because the goodwill of the community is starting to fray.

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  14. iMP (2,150 comments) says:

    Flip flop Sam Johnson (Young New Zealander of the Year 2012) gets a redirection. At one time offered a National candidacy but publicly supported Labour candidates, often over his fellow iCitz team. Some very hurt people in Sam’s wake recently. But hugs to him. He’s still young and perhaps a little naive when it comes to politics. Sam you have a good heart, but huge public profiles demand a high degree of stewardship.

    Sam J. gets a dis.

    http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/12/13/sam-johnson-gets-a-dis/

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  15. Nostalgia-NZ (4,685 comments) says:

    The decision to drop the prosecution wasn’t a Government one. Crown Law prosecute not the Government. It was a wise and pragmatic decision. At best Whittall was a scape coat for a ‘sinking lid’ policy of worksite safety policing – a situation that has a new remedy in place, hopefully practical and not overburdened with red tape and scarce of practicality as often happens when knees jerk.

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  16. hj (5,677 comments) says:

    That “cult” or behavioural throwback makes you wonder what is human?. I ‘m not one who believes we are an egg planted by God. Where was the incest taboo which is (or so I thought) built in?

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  17. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    Transparency above all: http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/white-house-press-corp-angrily-confronts-press-secretary-ove

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  18. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    And this clown is a Minister of the Crown!
    http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8770415/anger-over-mandela-death-picture

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  19. peterwn (2,933 comments) says:

    tas – re Sam Blackman’s case. Declaring some loose tea would not have precipitated a ‘customs’ as distinct from ‘biosecurity’ search, but his claim that customs said they were not interested in the tea sounds a bit suspicious – it would be regarded as a potential biosecurity issue and be taken for destruction as a matter of course (as long as it was declared there would be no other consequences). Nevertheless, assuming Sam’s situation is as he claims any security agencies involved seem to have blundered. The scenario seems to suggest that a security agency somewhere latched on to his attendance at an anti-snooping conference and tipped off SIS/ GSCB/ NZ Police, who then blundered and exposed their modus operandi by asking the NZ Customs to seize his electronic stuff. In other words, the security agencies have been caught with their hand in the till. In a case such as this, surely the intention is to keep the suspect under covert surveillance – the British agency involved is probably fuming at the NZ agencies’ ineptness.

    I doubt that the customs guy can demand passwords / PIN’s on the spot (but can request), but they could be lawfully demanded later on depending on circumstances.

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  20. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    As it turns out, gay boys don’t usually kill themselves simply because people reject them for being gay.

    As the vast majority of people really don’t care what anybody does in their private sex life.

    Homophobia is far less powerful than the reigning callousness and indifference of society to what’s going on with other people, really. So gay boys are far more likely to kill themselves, not because people care about their gayness and hate them for it, but rather, because most people don’t care about their gayness at all, other than horny gay men who are much older than they and fuck them up the ass when they aren’t ready to deal with the emotional mine field of homosexuality.

    There is still tremendous emotional vulnerability in a boy who is considering gay sex, which isn’t there with girls or boys who are 100% straight.
    A boy who starts getting fucked by men finds his whole future rewritten — it is not only an event dealing with one particular partner, but rather, a foundational shift in his imagined future. He will be in the gay community, living by its rules. Once an old man’s penis finds its way into the boy’s anus, the boy has to redefine his life goals, envision a future without women, without children, without access to the cultural mainstays enjoyed by the 99% of the world that isn’t gay and male. He must picture spending his time in the constricted, tiny circle of gay bars, gay associations, and gay cliques, looking for love in a tiny, somewhat incestuous pool of familiar local characters; gay men who will flit in and out of his life, vanishing without a morning call-back one year and then popping up two years later on the arm of his best friend.

    There is also the sheer physical change that happens when you are a boy and you first start letting men fuck you. It’s painful. You are being taught how to mix pain and pleasure, which increases the likelihood that you’re going to develop masochistic behaviors. You feel like a different person. As someone who got fucked by a lot of men in their forties and fifties when I was a teenage boy, I speak from real, extensive experience.

    I speak crudely because, as the statistics from the Department of Justice and the Centers for Disease Control reveal, the end result of many such gay mentor programs has been many adults inserting their penises into boys’ anuses. Hence there has been a spike in the HIV infection rate of boys aged 13-19, of which 95% result from unprotected anal sex.

    Let’s forget HIV for an instant, however, and the overall issues of sexually transmitted diseases. What if there were no STDs at all to be spread from older men to boys through anal and oral sex?

    So when you, as a grown man, fuck a boy, you are inflicting a host of potential anxieties on him. You are throwing his masculinity and sexual identity in doubt. You are forcing him to picture himself growing old and dying without having a wife and children, without giving his parents a daughter-in-law and grandchildren — being stuck in a claustrophobic world full of flaky and sleazy men.

    The recent statistics from many sources all seem to confirm that man-boy sex is a rampant problem in the gay community, and it’s destroying people’s lives. The Department of Justice found that gay teens are much more likely to be in physically abusive relationships, not to mention emotionally abusive relationships, with one of the key factors the fact that they are involved, so often, in unstable sexual liaisons with men much older than they are. While the report included a statement about the lack of “role models” for gay teens, we must extrapolate a deeper problem that straight researchers might not be able to piece together. Gay teens have role models, but the role models are fucking them. That messes up their heads.

    Many of the recent cases involving gay foster dads or gay mentors who sexually abused boys do not reflect a sinister, evil psychology in the adult gay male, but rather a frighteningly innocent belief on the part of the adult that the youth wanted to get fucked and somehow fucking him was part of helping him.

    The gay male adult, fed a steady diet of LGBT narratives about people being born gay and deserving sexual gratification as a civil right, cannot comprehend that what they believe and feel isn’t exactly the same as what the child is believing and feeling. Since so much argumentation about gay parenting has hinged on the notion of “gay couples providing a loving home,” many gay adults charged with youths get lost in the nebulous meaning of “loving.” They have been prompted to believe that if what they do to young people comes from affectionate motives, it’s good. Which is a very convenient way to talk oneself into fucking a boy, unfortunately.

    The media support and “celebration” of the gay “lifestyle” merely encouraged boys to go out and get fucked up the ass by older men, with the result that now a lot of them are going to die from AIDs.

    One of the top indicators of HIV infection risk is a tendency to date much older or much younger than oneself, and this makes sense for a basic reason: the kind of men who disregard the taboo against men fucking boys will usually also disregard other ethical limitations to their gratification, seeing limits as unfair or prejudiced. Condoms disappear somewhere in the confusion — and no, making people feel less guilty about doing something doesn’t make what they do safer, as the recent statistics shockingly tell us.

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  21. iMP (2,150 comments) says:

    Has Tim Barnett Lab. Sec gone into real estate?

    http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/12/13/has-labour-gone-into-real-estate/

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  22. peterwn (2,933 comments) says:

    See:
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11171635
    [house removal firm plonks house on wrong lot]

    “But they didn’t want to buy it. They didn’t see the potential. Once I finish the place they’ll probably think they should have bought it.”

    They sure did not see the potential. The house had become a ‘fixture’ ie part of the land so the lot owner could have claimed ownership and left it to the company to find another house for its client.

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  23. Yoza (1,348 comments) says:

    tas (414 comments) says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 8:01 am

    The Herald reports that Sam Blackman was stopped by Customs when returning to NZ and all his electronics were confiscated without reason. He suspects it is due to his active involvement in an anti-snooping conference.

    He claims that Customs asked for his passwords, which he gave to them. Is that legal?

    The story has been carried by international news sites and made it to #2 on the front page of reddit. It’s not a good look for NZ.

    I sincerely hope there is a good explanation, but it hasn’t been forthcoming from Customs.

    Thoughts?

    Looks like a case of intimidation.

    peterwn (2,613 comments) says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 8:52 am

    The scenario seems to suggest that a security agency somewhere latched on to his attendance at an anti-snooping conference and tipped off SIS/ GSCB/ NZ Police, who then blundered and exposed their modus operandi by asking the NZ Customs to seize his electronic stuff. In other words, the security agencies have been caught with their hand in the till. In a case such as this, surely the intention is to keep the suspect under covert surveillance – the British agency involved is probably fuming at the NZ agencies’ ineptness.

    I don’t think so, I think this shakedown was meant to have a chilling effect. It would appear that Mr Blackman is being sent a message – “You have come to our attention and we don’t like you!”

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  24. Gulag1917 (425 comments) says:

    Another side to Mandela

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  25. OneTrack (1,960 comments) says:

    Longknives “What the fuck? Was this actually written by a major newspaper’s ‘Political Editor’? Or was it written by a twelve year-old??”

    Just another hard-left Herald “journolist” working for the “cause”. Nothing new here.

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  26. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    yeah Manolo

    and TV3 reported he brought a “kiwi” aspect to the proceedings.

    More like a clown with that silly head gear.WTF!

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  27. nasska (9,501 comments) says:

    Thank you for sharing your experiences with us Harriet….that took courage.

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  28. Yoza (1,348 comments) says:

    Harriet (3,142 comments) says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 8:56 am

    ” As it turns out, gay boys don’t usually kill themselves simply because people reject them for being gay.

    As the vast majority of people really don’t care what anybody does in their private sex life. … As someone who got fucked by a lot of men in their forties and fifties when I was a teenage boy, I speak from real, extensive experience.”

    I was confused by this, but it turns out it was a “cut and paste”.

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  29. Urban_Redneck (39 comments) says:

    Following on from Harriet’s post. I think I have posted this quote from lesbian author and political commentator Tammy Bruce before, but she makes a salient point:

    Frankly, even before the depth of the Catholic Church’s problem became known, it was common knowledge that many gay men pursue sexual relationships with adolescent boys. Why? Based on my experience in the gay community, I believe it’s due to the fact that so many gay men had their first sexual experience as an adolescent with an adult male. That is a traumatic experience, and as long as the wound remains untreated, the victim feels compelled to continually reenact the experience so as to master it or project it onto others

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  30. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    nasska @916

    As usual taking a serious issue and responding with a snide ad hom.

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  31. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    A Frog is keen to return: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/nicolas-sarkozy/10513239/Nicolas-Sarkozy-my-return-is-destiny-I-dont-have-a-choice.html

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  32. Sofia (780 comments) says:

    Harriet – I thought it was a convention on kiwiblog, and other blogs, to either link to an article or indicate material is not yours by italicising it.
    You have done neither in your long adaptation [or adoption] of material by Robert Oscar Lopez – http://englishmanif.blogspot.co.nz/

    And in stealing this man’s material you have slammed you own self goal on it, whereas his point, to which his own writing was better suited of course, was that homosexuals should observe a convention that allows young people to find their own sexuality, rather than have it decided for them, in that homosexuals should play with partners of their own age, just as should heterosexuals.

    So avoiding –

    … when you, as a grown man, fuck a boy, you are inflicting a host of potential anxieties on him. You are throwing his masculinity and sexual identity in doubt. You are forcing him to picture himself growing old and dying without having a wife and children, without giving his parents a daughter-in-law and grandchildren — being stuck in a claustrophobic world full of flaky and sleazy men.

    These are all understandings — norms, if you will — that an adult entrusted with children has to walk around with. It has to be second nature. It must be something beyond question, beyond editorial review, beyond negotiation. While women face this issue, it is even more acutely an issue for men, who have a long history, and perhaps biological predisposition, to inject their penis into situations and confuse their own quest for pleasure with their obligation to teach, mentor, and guide young people.
    as above: http://englishmanif.blogspot.co.nz/ and others

    [maybe of interest to nasska 9:16am, and kowtow 9:37]

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  33. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    nasska (8,317 comments) says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 9:16 am
    Thank you for sharing your experiences with us Harriet….that took courage.

    Listen up bumpkin…….as you fucken well know – I’m not fucken gay!

    Yes, I did pick up after I had posted it that I didn’t place quotation marks around it – and that it read like I had fucken wrote the whole fucken lot all by my fucken self.

    Friday 13th. Fuck fuck fuck. :cool:

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  34. Jack5 (4,217 comments) says:

    Whale Oil has an interesting piece today on Hooton and the Chorus campaign.

    Hooton, of course, is Radio NZ’s Labour Programme “Right representative” on its political panel.

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  35. fernglas (35 comments) says:

    Harriet, and anybody else who is listening, it is spelt “fuckin’ ” not “fucken”. Also, the interrogative that New Zealanders and Canadians love to put at the end of their sentences is “eh?” rhyming with day,not “aye” rhyming with fly.

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  36. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    I doubt that John Key would have been pleased to come back from South Africa to find one of his staffers had by association raised serious questions about his comms team’s use of social media.

    It’s also had a spinoff here where Lynn Prebtice and others have implied or accused DPF of using Jason Ede as a secret author and whether National fund Kiwiblog. I don’t know if DPF will address that, he’s been pretty upfront about things like this in the past.

    An interesting sideline is whether party comms staff comment here under pseudonyms. There’s nothing to stop them, but it does raise issues about how much freedom they would have to play political games without the PM or MPs really knowing what they are up to.

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  37. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    Fernglas

    The “eh” in NZ may come from Maori,methinks and I never use it.

    Many Canadians seem to have adopted it to distinguish their particular American style of speech from their southern cousins.Probably something the Canadian media likes to push?

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  38. stephieboy (1,120 comments) says:

    Yoza (983 comments) says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 9:30 am

    Cut and paste ? or simply plagiarism or more simply put a from of piracy,!

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  39. stephieboy (1,120 comments) says:

    Longknives (3,494 comments) says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 8:10 am

    Actually if one takes the trouble to read the article in its entirety Craig actually emerges as not a to bad fella . This is especially his advocacy for the victims of leaky homes. He does seem to have a social conscience conspicuously lacking from many of the rock apes on the far right who post here,
    Mr Craig is entitled ro express his admiration of Sarah Palin but we ( including the media ) are also allowed to draw certain inferences and conclusions.from that.

    http://www.alternet.org/story/97907/sarah_palin%27s_9_most_disturbing_beliefs

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  40. OneTrack (1,960 comments) says:

    stephieboy – “Mr Craig is entitled ro express his admiration of Sarah Palin but we ( including the media ) are also allowed to draw certain inferences and conclusions.from that.”

    And we are allowed to draw certain inferences and conclusions ABOUT the media from their response.

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  41. jackinabox (352 comments) says:

    McCready vows to take Whittall to court

    By Patrice Dougan

    9:55 AM Friday Dec 13, 2013

    Former accountant, Graham McCready said he will file 29 counts of manslaughter against Peter Whittall.

    It comes a day after all 12 charges against him in relation to the 2010 mine disaster were dropped by the Crown.

    Mr McCready said he will file the charges in Wellington District Court, as it is closest to where Mr Whittall lives and will help keep costs down.

    However, he said there are two matters which need to be addressed before he proceeds with lodging a private prosecution – a $1000 filing fee for which he is seeking public donations; and making contact with the families of the 29 men who lost their lives in the mine explosion to discuss what they want to do.

    - APNZ

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11171948

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  42. Fletch (5,719 comments) says:

    Sarah Palin – one of America’s Most Whacky

    Why is Sarah Palin “whacky”? I can’t see where’s she’s been whacky.
    She has been characterised as whacky by a comedian, Tina Fey, on Saturday Night Live. Some people seem to think it’s real or something.

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  43. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    Aussie troughing Greenies doing their bit for Gaia: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/labor-ministers-went-out-in-style-with-their-roundtheworld-goodbye-tours/story-e6frg6n6-1226782023300

    In one of the most expensive, the 10-day trip by former climate change minister Greg Combet and ABC newsreader girlfriend Juanita Phillips through France, Belgium and Germany in April has come in at $72,027.

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  44. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    Concerning Pike River

    Simon Bridges has been silenced because John Key is the silent assassin and wants to kill the story so he can smile at the next elections.

    If 29 MP’s had been killed you think the Nat/Lab coalition would have accepted a 3 mill payout?

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  45. stephieboy (1,120 comments) says:

    Fletch

    Sarah Palin Wacky.?

    Find out more here,

    http://www.alternet.org/story/104034/the_11_dumbest_things_sarah_palin_has_said_so_far

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  46. OneTrack (1,960 comments) says:

    “Why is Sarah Palin “whacky”? I can’t see where’s she’s been whacky.”

    Because she is on the right ( hence perceived as a threat ). The lefties (Fey, etc.) feel the need to try and discredit those they disagree with.

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  47. stephieboy (1,120 comments) says:

    One Track.

    Your wrong. She was never perceived as a threat by the left or anyone but the Republicans and the electorate who saw her as electoral poison.!

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  48. Fletch (5,719 comments) says:

    stephieboy, can’t see anything too bad there. Certainly not up with Obama’s calling corpsman a “corpse man”, or his talking about America’s “intercontinental railroad”.

    http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/barackobama/a/obama-isms.htm

    Far dumber things than Palin has ever said. Or even Bush.

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  49. OneTrack (1,960 comments) says:

    stephieboy – “Your wrong. She was never perceived as a threat by the left or anyone but the Republicans and the electorate who saw her as electoral poison.!”

    Yeah, ok.

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  50. stephieboy (1,120 comments) says:

    Fletch Obama’s gaffs pale into insignificance compared to Palin’s,

    http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/sarahpalin/a/palinisms.htm.

    Sarah failed in the 2008 campaign.

    Time to move on. Get over it.!

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  51. Fletch (5,719 comments) says:

    Time to move on. Get over it.!

    Oh, I have gotten over it. I guess it’s the Herald who haven’t.
    And Joe Biden is whackier than Obama, Palin and Bush combined.

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  52. Fletch (5,719 comments) says:

    Maybe someone was getting too close –

    The Hawaii health official who verified the authenticity of President Obama’s birth certificate has died in a small plane crash, authorities said Thursday.

    The plane, with a pilot and eight passengers aboard, went down Wednesday in the water off the Hawaiian island of Molokai, the Maui Fire Department said. The Honolulu Star-Advertiser was among the first outlets to report that the lone fatality was Loretta Fuddy. Tom Matsuda, the interim executive director of Hawaii’s health insurance exchange, later confirmed Fuddy’s death.

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  53. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    Family love North Korean-style: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/nkorea-executes-kim-jong-un-uncle

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  54. Fletch (5,719 comments) says:

    Another in the so-called, “war on Christmas” in the U.S.

    An atheist activist group is demanding that a Florida city remove a nativity scene from public property.

    The Freedom From Religion Foundation, a church-state separatist group, has insisted that the creche be immediately taken down from the grounds of Chipley City Hall in Chipley, Fla., charging that it represents a violation of the separation of church and state.

    The organization wrote a letter on Dec. 6 to Mayor Linda Cain airing its grievances.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/12/12/officials-refuse-to-back-down-in-battle-with-atheists-over-florida-citys-nativity-scene/

    Luckily, the city is fighting back.
    Some people just want to suck out the joy of Christmas don’t they…

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  55. Fletch (5,719 comments) says:

    And another –

    SHAW AIR FORCE BASE, S.C. (CBS Charlotte/AP) — Officials at Shaw Air Force Base are trying to determine what to do about a holiday display after a Nativity scene was taken down last week.

    Air Force spokeswoman Lt. Keavy Rake said Tuesday a Nativity display was set up Friday by a group of volunteers from the base chapel at a small lake on the installation. The site was near where a tree lighting ceremony was scheduled Friday evening.

    Rake says the Military Religious Freedom Foundation lodged a complaint about the display through the Air Force in Washington.

    Paul Loebe, spokesman for the foundation, said the Nativity scene was in violation of the Constitution.

    http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2013/12/10/air-force-base-takes-down-nativity-scene-following-complaint/

    The ultimate grinches.
    They don’t want to be reminded of the reason for Christmas.

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  56. itstricky (1,139 comments) says:

    Fletch there is a rumor going around that Palin was born in Nairobi to a virgin. With a semi-automatic in her little hands, of course – so that she could defend herself. Google it.

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  57. Fletch (5,719 comments) says:

    The Nazis tried to take Christ out of Christmas, as well.
    It didn’t work.

    ‘Christmas was a provocation for the Nazis – after all, the baby Jesus was a Jewish child,’ Judith Breuer told the German newspaper Spiegel. ‘The most important celebration in the year didn’t fit with their racist beliefs so they had to react, by trying to make it less Christian.’

    The exhibition includes swastika-shaped cookie-cutters and Christmas tree baubles shaped like Iron Cross medals.

    The Nazis attempted to persuade housewives to bake cookies in the shape of swastikas, and they replaced the Christian figure of Saint Nicholas, who traditionally brings German children treats on December 6, with the Norse god Odin.

    The symbol that posed a particular problem for the Nazis was the star, which traditionally decorates Christmas trees.

    ‘Either it was a six-pointed star, which was a symbol of the Jews, or it was a five-pointed star, which represented the Soviets,’ Breuer said. It had to go.

    The wartime version of the traditional Christmas carol ‘Unto us a time has come’ is still sung. ‘The Nazis took out the references to Jesus and made it into a song about walking through the snow,’ Breuer said.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1228630/How-Hitlers-Nazi-propaganda-machine-tried-Christ-Christmas.html

    You can see images of their nazi tree baubles and tree ornaments at the link.

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  58. Colville (1,771 comments) says:

    Boult is on fire bowling at the Windies. 250 run deficit. NZ could wrap it up today if the weather holds off :-)

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  59. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    The dreadful, economy-wrecking alliance of unions and Greens: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/letters-to-the-editor/9512538/Letter-Living-wage-claims-don-t-have-merit

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  60. Sofia (780 comments) says:

    A Whaleoil Investigation shows that people within the council have questioned Brown’s motives.  With a chauffeur driven mayoral car at his disposal 24/7, and a 20 minute trip home, going to a city hotel for the night appears to require a better explanation than “late night, early start”.

    Sources close to the story have said that they believe Len Brown wasn’t alone on such occasions.

    SkyCity Grand staff were asked about the detail of Len Brown’s stays but they have declined to comment as per their policy on not discussing their guests for privacy reasons.

    It is understood Brown’s legal team are attempting to have the additional SkyCity Grand visits classified as private stays, and therefore outside the scope of the EY inquiry.
    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/12/len-browns-additional-hotel-nights-questioned/#more-119634

    At what point will an Inquiry need to be held into the current Inquiry?
    Why is Len Brown consulted. If he finds fault with the Report let him refute it publicly with evidence we can all see.

    He said … his integrity would never again be questioned.
    – 16 June , 2010
    http://www.3news.co.nz/Len-Brown-gives-unusual-apology-over-spending/tabid/419/articleID/161103/Default.aspx

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  61. Fletch (5,719 comments) says:

    Criticism by the NY Post over Obama’s behaviour at Mandela’s funeral.

    Maybe he went into sugar shock over a Danish pastry.

    The president of the United States, leader of the free world, standard-bearer for everything upright, good and wholesome about the nation he leads, lost his morality, his dignity and his mind, using the solemn occasion of Nelson Mandela’s memorial service Tuesday to act like a hormone-ravaged frat boy on a road trip to a strip bar.

    In front of 91 world leaders, the mourning nation of South Africa and Obama’s clearly furious wife, Michelle, the president flirted, giggled, whispered like a recalcitrant child and made a damn fool of himself at first sight of Denmark’s voluptuously curvy and married prime minister, Helle Thorning-Schmidt.

    Not to be outdone by the president’s bad behavior, the Danish hellcat hiked up her skirt to expose long Scandinavian legs covered by nothing more substantial than sheer black stockings.

    With Michelle glowering, the world judging and mental fidelity floating into the abyss, the president leaned into the air space of the cross-legged Danish cupcake, who is known in Copenhagen as a fan of America’s randy TV show “Sex and the City.’’ It was the memorial equivalent of a bodice-ripper.

    http://nypost.com/2013/12/12/obamas-flirt-with-danish-prime-minister-is-a-disgrace/

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  62. Nookin (2,887 comments) says:

    “Concerning Pike River
    Simon Bridges has been silenced because John Key is the silent assassin and wants to kill the story so he can smile at the next elections.
    If 29 MP’s had been killed you think the Nat/Lab coalition would have accepted a 3 mill payout?”

    Simon Bridges has not been silenced. Simon Bridges has made a statement that the decision not to prosecute was based on legal principles and that he was not part of the process. He has stated that it is not the role of a politician to determine whether somebody is prosecuted. It will come as a significant surprise to the likes of Damian O’Connor, Andrew Little, Bernie Monk and Helen Kelly that politicians cannot direct prosecution’s, determine guilt and imposed penalties through the media. There is nothing more that Bridges really needs to say on this matter. He was consulted after the decision was made and it did not influence it. That was entirely proper.

    There have been some particularly inane comments about the decision. The first is that this was a back room deal by lawyers. For a kick off, communications between Crown and defence are never undertaken in a town hall with the public watching. That is the sort of circus that labour seems to want. The reasons for the cancellation of the proceedings were fully canvassed in statements by both counsel. The judge (who showed no sympathy whatsoever to the company when she sentenced it and cannot be accused of any sort of bias) observed that the prospects of a successful prosecution were extremely low. Such a comment is based on the merits of the case and have nothing whatsoever to do with the payment of any money.

    I cannot remember if it was Little or Kelly who said that it is up to the courts to decide if somebody is guilty and not lawyers. That is absolute nonsense. You do not clutter the court system up for 26 weeks with a case that the Crown, the defence and the case management judge say will not succeed.

    Andrew Little said that the decision exposes inadequacies of the law around corporate liability. Again, that is absolute nonsense. This case has nothing whatsoever to do with corporate liability. The company was prosecuted. It was found guilty. There were no issues as to the prosecution of the company. There were no inadequacies of law in relation to the prosecution, conviction and sentence. The problem with this particular case is attributing criminal culpability to 1 individual only. There is nothing to suggest that there are any legal deficiencies. The problem seems to be entirely evidential with critical witnesses refusing to come back to give evidence. Some of those witnesses would appear to be mineworkers. There are also problems with expert witnesses who cannot agree and whose opinions appear to be based on an incorrect or disputed facts and errors of law.

    How Andrew Little can suggest that the introduction of a charge of corporate manslaughter would have sold any issues relating to the prosecution of Whittal is really beyond comprehension.

    Hague is incredulous that the decision was based on inadequacy of evidence. He says that there was a mountain of evidence heard by the commission of enquiry and the Department of Labour’s Investigation. May be. However, that evidence does not necessarily establish that Whittal was criminally culpable. The fact that some witnesses may have given evidence before the commission of enquiry is relevant. Critical witnesses do not want to give evidence in the criminal case. They cannot be summonsed to give evidence. What does the Crown do?

    Hague also says that Whittal has an obligation to pay compensation regardless of whether he was facing charges. He says that there is a whiff of something absolutely wrong about the idea of justice being for sale. If Mr Hague can point to any legal authority to the effect that Whittal can be sued for damages or compensation then I might reconsider my view that he is being a grandstanding numpty who either lacks the acuity to know or integrity to acknowledge that our ACC system has existed since 1972 and individuals, companies or even governments cannot be sued for compensation.

    Some other politico is quoted this morning as stating that this decision was based on the government’s reluctance to have the Department of Labour’s inadequacies trawled through the court because Whittal could almost certainly show that it was not his actions but the Department’s inadequacies that were at fault. In other words, he wanted the prosecution to proceed knowing that Whittal would get off and considered it justified on the basis that it would embarrass the government. If that is the sort of consideration that the Labour Party wants to introduce into the administration of our justice system when I want nothing to do with it.

    The law relating to health and safety has been tightened significantly. Directors will be under an obligation to be actively involved in safety issues. That, regretfully, will be overlooked by unscrupulous politicians who have no hesitation in using human tragedy to make illogical, incorrect and extravagant statements for the sole purposes of scoring political points.

    Fuggem

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  63. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    @BernardOrsman

    Ernst Young report expected to be made public at 2pm. Believed to contain embarrassing material for Brown

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  64. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    @Fletch: Maybe proof the Messiah is also made of flesh and blood, and not only divine material?
    The photographs show his missus, the gorgeous Marie Antoniette, was not impressed with his behaviour.

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  65. stephieboy (1,120 comments) says:

    Fletch (5,238 comments) says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 11:23 am

    Yes the Nazis did attempt to revive ancient pagan beliefs and traditions . They also attempted to include many of then into Christmas. But the important point is who voted them in in the first place.

    You’ll find a considerable junk of the Middle and Upper Middle class with many on the rabid right like here.!

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  66. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    Great stuff from Trent Boult, although after enforcing the follow on in Dunedin and it not working particularly well with WI putting up a huge score, I would have preferred to see McCullum bat again, and give themselves enough of a lead before having another go at bowling them out where the likes of Sodhi could have got some assistance on day 5. Will be interesting to see what happens, hopefully the rain stays away.

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  67. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    Nookin

    That may be but still does not change the pattern we see in National govts in disasters from Cave Creek to Jerry Brownlee denying a memorial for Chch and now to Pike River.

    In fact, wasn’t there a National govt during Erebus. Where was the Minister of Transport/Aviation in that case?

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  68. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    Also still on the cricket, how does Neil Wagner justify his place in the side over Doug Bracewell! he has been poor with the ball has about one or two wicket to date and got a golden duck, Does anyone else think he is worth a place in the side?

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  69. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    ‘Yes the Nazis did attempt to revive ancient pagan beliefs and traditions . They also attempted to include many of then into Christmas. But the important point is who voted them in in the first place.

    You’ll find a considerable junk of the Middle and Upper Middle class with many on the rabid right like here.!’

    As I’ve said before, the middle class will accept Fascism, Apartheid, Segregation as long as their bank acc’s aern’t touched.

    Little do they know central banks manipulate currency to keep citizens they now call ‘consumers’ battling and struggling
    to keep them disempowered.

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  70. stephieboy (1,120 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis business (2,636 comments) says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 11:41 am

    Tob be fair Wiri the National party have electorally been the most successful over time and therefore in office. The fact the Erebus , CAve creek etc disaster happened is pure coincidence .
    Nothing more.!

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  71. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    ‘The fact the Erebus , CAve creek etc disaster happened is pure coincidence .
    Nothing more.!’

    It’s how they deal with them in an irresponsible, unprofessional, uncaring manner.

    Therefore we are well warned in advance of their strategy in future tragedies.

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  72. mandk (685 comments) says:

    Fletch @ 11.16

    To be consistent, the religious freedom people should also have objected to the tree and the lights. After all, they were originally pagan symbols.

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  73. OneTrack (1,960 comments) says:

    Fletch – “… the Military Religious Freedom Foundation lodged a complaint …”

    Oxymoron alert – the Military Anything But Religious Freedom Foundation has spoken.

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  74. martinh (824 comments) says:

    If Mayor Brown was receiving free rooms at Skycity as the report today might show, i hope a corruption case is started by the police forthwith.
    Contrary to what you said to Paul Henry yesterday DPF its not similar to you accepting free stuff as the law is specific to public officials, which i assume you a not.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1306/S00447/time-for-mayor-to-stop-supporting-skycity-deal.htm
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10893526

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  75. martinh (824 comments) says:

    In fact i dont hope they do, they must.

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  76. OneTrack (1,960 comments) says:

    What is this guy McCready up to now?

    I hear he is now taking a manslaughter case against Peter Whittal. WTF?

    For a start, how does a private citizen start a manslaughter case? And who is paying for this crap ( the courts, the judges, the court staff,…)? Don’t answer the last one, because I know who is paying it. I just hope I don’t get sick.

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  77. dime (8,751 comments) says:

    Hey wiki,

    Dime has a small project coming up. I got 3 quotes. see if you can guess who came out on top:

    best price – company a (kiwi), company b (kiwi) or c (gang of Asians)

    who could start the job first – company a (kiwi), company b (kiwi) or c (gang of Asians)

    who quoted the least amount of time to finish the job – company a (kiwi), company b (kiwi) or c (gang of Asians)

    if you answered C to all of those you would be correct. the gang of Asians came in at half the cost of company A…

    it cracks me up who whenever we talk about internet piracy, musicians having their music stolen etc all i hear is “they need to adapt” “their business model is flawed” blah blah

    well Dime says the same thing to kiwi builders, tradesmen etc adapt and stop ye whining

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  78. dime (8,751 comments) says:

    Sky Go – was pretty excited first day. now im pissed off. can only access on 2 devices. i have home pc and ipad. means i can no longer log in on work computer. can only change a device every 30 days fss.

    sitting at home as we speak, turns out my bullshit fast fibre isnt quite up to it as the picture is constantly stalling. audio keeps going.

    up your game sky! dont make me get a gang of Asians in to replace you!

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  79. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    Agree very much with Hamish McKay, the chiefs deserved better

    http://www.3news.co.nz/McKay-Chat-Chiefs-Halbergs-snub-a-shocker/tabid/415/articleID/325028/Default.aspx

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  80. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    What Obama says?It’s his rank hypocrisy that the ever adoring media,so quick to attack Palin but give Obummer a free psaa.

    He goes to Africa and talks of freedom and liberation……..but hasn’t closed Gitmo yet. (I have no problem with Gitmo ,but Obummer promised to close it in the name of justice or something) The media refuse to take him to task.

    He runs around the Muslim world telling them about justice and peace etc and yet he is responsible for outright war crimes….

    the latest is a wedding convoy blown to bits in Yemen by a drone strike.(Now I have no problem with taking out terrorists,but I’m not claiming to be a jurist ,and peace and change maker)

    So the west’s compliant media need take their hatred and focus off Palin and back to those who are exercising power……that’s their stated aim ,isn’t it?…….Actually it’s not ,they’re there to keep the progressive agenda alive and Obummer is their man…..equality,homo rights,anti America,anti conservative.

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  81. fernglas (35 comments) says:

    Hopefully this time the S-G will take over the prosecution and squash it, as he is entitled to do. If not, there will be good grounds for Whittall to seek a stay on the grounds of an abuse of process. If the Crown couldn’t find enough to justify prosecution, then it’s hard to see how a private prosecutor could have any hope of proving an unlawful act and/or gross negligence. Just a big waste of time and money. For too many people in this country, the search for justice can only be satisfied by a criminal prosecution. Few of those bring any satisfaction for anybody involved. Time for the Pike River families to be allowed to move on with their lives

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  82. Fletch (5,719 comments) says:

    So the west’s compliant media need take their hatred and focus off Palin and back to those who are exercising power……that’s their stated aim ,isn’t it?

    kowtow, here is rep Trey Gowdy, taking the media to task on not doing their jobs over Benghazi.

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  83. Dirty Rat (377 comments) says:

    Jack5 (3,762 comments) says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 9:51 am
    Whale Oil has an interesting piece today on Hooton and the Chorus campaign.

    Jack

    The Onion has great tips for decorating ones Christmas tree

    http://www.theonion.com/video/the-onions-tips-for-decorating-a-christmas-tree,34811/

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  84. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    Thanks Fletch

    Obummer and co have held on and the accomplice media have let Benghazi go away.

    Meanwhile it’s Palin ,Palin Palin.

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  85. Fletch (5,719 comments) says:

    Onto cooler things :)

    Here’s a five minute fan video mashup: Doctor Who meets Sherlock.
    Quite well done.

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  86. Longknives (4,044 comments) says:

    You knew it was coming- The left have decided it is ‘racist’ to depict Santa as a white man….

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11171896

    And now they are trying to crucify the gorgeous Megyn Kelly for trying to put an end to this PC nonsense…

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  87. KevinH (1,128 comments) says:

    @Fletch, @OneTrack
    Palin is certainly cute but her future is in comedy:
    “All of ‘em, any of ‘em that have been in front of me over all these years.” –Sarah Palin, unable to name a single newspaper or magazine she reads, interview with Katie Couric, CBS News, Oct. 1, 2008 (Watch video clip

    “He who warned, uh, the British that they weren’t gonna be takin’ away our arms, uh, by ringing those bells, and um, makin’ sure as he’s riding his horse through town to send those warning shots and bells that we were going to be sure and we were going to be free, and we were going to be armed.” –Sarah Palin, botching the history of Paul Revere’s midnight ride, June 3, 2011

    “But obviously, we’ve got to stand with our North Korean allies.” –Sarah Palin, after being asked how she would handle the current hostilities between the two Koreas, interview on Glenn Beck’s radio show, Nov. 24, 2010

    “As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where– where do they go? It’s Alaska. It’s just right over the border.” –Sarah Palin, explaining why Alaska’s proximity to Russia gives her foreign policy experience, interview with CBS’s Katie Couric, Sept. 24, 2008

    @Fletch
    Loved that link on the Obama’s. No humpty dumpty for Barrick.

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  88. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    TV3 have just reported this guy as a ‘kiwi”.

    Don’t think so.

    If he’s found guilty ,will he should be stripped of New Zealand citizenship.

    http://diasporamessenger.com/foreigner-who-wanted-to-marry-11-year-old-girl-arrested/

    Having said that our betters exhort us to celebrate all this enrichment and diversity that these characters bring to boring,white Anglo Saxon New Zealand.

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  89. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    Longknives

    Santa should be depicted as a wee bit dusky.

    The original Nick came from Asia Minor,when it was Christian,before the Muslim Turkish hordes over ran it and committed a genocide on the indigenous Christians.

    An oppression that continues to this day ,but it’s not the done thing to talk about it.

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  90. stephieboy (1,120 comments) says:

    Kowtow your wrong. St Nicholas was indeed born in Asia Minor but it was the Roman Emperor Diocletian who in fact persecuted,murdered and imprisoned Christians like him. This was long before the Islamic Turkish infidels made an appearance.

    http://www.stnicholascenter.org/pages/who-is-st-nicholas/

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  91. cha (3,531 comments) says:

    Benghazi 9/11! … as the US maintains an alliance with one of the most oppressive anti-western Islamic states on the planet.

    “I was absolutely shocked by what I read,” Jones told International Business Times. “What was so surprising was that those whom we thought we could trust really disappointed me. I cannot go into it any more than that. I had to sign an oath that what I read had to remain confidential. But the information I read disappointed me greatly.”

    [...]

    It has never been fully explained why the pages were blacked out, but President Bush stated in 2003 that releasing the pages would violate national security.

    http://www.ibtimes.com/911-link-saudi-arabia-topic-28-redacted-pages-government-report-congressmen-push-release-1501202

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  92. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    Promises are not worth even the paper they are written on. Seeing is believing.

    The National Party has confirmed it wants to see the eventual abolition of the Maori seats in Parliament.

    The party today released its Maori Affairs and Treaty Negotiations policies, promising to “devote fresh energy and leadership” to advancing Treaty settlements.

    It wants to settle all historic claims by 2014, a deadline it has set in the past.

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/national-confirms-policy-abolish-maori-seats-35774

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  93. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ Longknives (3,495 comments) says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    Wow, I am surprised at that, I would have thought they would have gone for the sexist angle first, but then I suppose it might have caused problem when they got to the ‘tooth fairy’ and wanted her depicted as a man, and god knows what the SPCA would have to say if they started in on the Easter bunny!

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  94. stephieboy (1,120 comments) says:

    Longknives (3,495 comments) says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 12:58 pm
    I would take anything Fox news says with a grain of salt quite frankly.
    Precisely which members of the “left”are saying that Samta should not be white.? Also do recall that the original Santa, St Nicholas like Jesus was born in the Middle East and would highly likely be of a darker complexion than say a Scandinavian,or an Aryan like yourself.

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  95. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    stephie b

    you are very tedious in your defence of the “other”

    Many Roman Emperors persecuted Christians, we all know that.

    The Byzantine Empire was Christian and was obliterated by the Muslim Turks ,who went on to invade Europe.The problems Islam then created in Europe (as well as the Near East )exist to this day.

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  96. Longknives (4,044 comments) says:

    “or an Aryan like yourself”

    Ouch. What a nasty, pathetic little piece of shit you are Stephieboy…

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  97. stephieboy (1,120 comments) says:

    cha (3,062 comments) says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 1:57 pm

    The facts are that the US depends dar less on SA oil etc than ever before. its dependency on Middle east Oil has dramatically diminished over the last decade.
    SA oppressive ?No more and no less than the Islamic Republic of Iran both of whom e g still have Sorcery and witchcraft as indictable of fences and persecute minority religious groups like Ba’ hai and Christians.

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  98. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    Don’t know about you guys but I find this very funny.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11171653

    The sign language interpreter reckons he was having a schizo moment when he went all peculiar at Mandela’s memorial service. Apparently he thought he was seeing angels etc and he didn’t want to do anything such as walk off the stage because there were armed police around and it would let his country down so instead he thought he’d just carry on.

    Don’t know about you guys but this is just the sort of excuse I’d expect a ten-year-old to makeup if they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar. Plus I wonder what’s going to happen the first time a journo asks him to actually properly sign something just so people don’t think he can’t even do it. I mean what’s he going to do then? See even more angels?

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  99. stephieboy (1,120 comments) says:

    Longknives this definition of Aryan from Wiki,

    “The Aryan race was a racial grouping commonly used in the period of the late 19th century to the mid 20th century to describe peoples of European and Western Asian heritage. It derives from the idea that the original speakers of the Indo-European languages and their descendants up to the present day constitute a distinctive race or subrace of the larger Caucasian race.”

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  100. Jim (385 comments) says:

    @yoza @peterwn – intimidation or ineptness are both possibilities, inept intimidation even.

    Whatever the reason it stinks. The ‘objectionable material’ excuse is shameless.

    Could be worse:

    http://www.salon.com/2012/04/08/u_s_filmmaker_repeatedly_detained_at_border/

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  101. stephieboy (1,120 comments) says:

    kowtow. My point was that St Nicholas was persecuted by the Romans and not the Turks as you appear to be suggesting . The Turks came much later on the world stage and conquered the last vestiges of the Byzantine Empire in 1453 AD.
    The Turks tried to attack and conquer Western Europe but failed.

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  102. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    Tweeting on the Len Brown report…

    No expenses incurred by council that related to the mayor’s relationship with Bevan Chuang.

    Report notes they were unable to identify the council security guard who allegedly interrupted Len Brown and Bevan Chuang having sex.

    Len Brown received 9 complimentary hotel rooms which he didn’t declare, worth $6130. 64 undeclared hotel upgrades, worth $32888.

    The mayor used his council provided phone to make 1375 calls and texts to Chuang between 19 nov 2010 and 21 Oct 2013

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  103. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    Len Brown received 9 complimentary hotel rooms which he didn’t declare, worth $6130. 64 undeclared hotel upgrades, worth $32888.

    If that is not corruption, what is?
    The disgraced Brown should muster a gram of decency and resign.

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  104. Jack5 (4,217 comments) says:

    Those interested in the rights and wrongs of euthanasia, and those interested on a Catholic perspective on celibacy for priests might find interesting this interview with the great theologian Hans Kung.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/controversial-theologian-hans-kueng-on-death-and-church-reform-a-938501.html

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  105. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    steph in my post i said “when it was Christian, before the Turkish Muslim hordes over ran it….”

    No suggestion,very clear!

    The main battle that determined Turkish victory was Manzikert 1071 AD….look it up.

    The Turks didn’t simply try to attack the west ,they besieged Vienna in 1683 AD…we have the Poles to thank for kicking Muslim arse there.

    It was only in the 1820′s that Greece was liberated.

    And I won’t even go into the numerous Balkan troubles…….which are a legacy of the Muslim Turk.

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  106. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    Jack5

    We conservatives consider Kung to be a commie theologian.

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  107. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    Spin and more spin: http://newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/regak/1688615651-brown-did-not-inappropriately-use-council-resources—report

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  108. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    Len Brown report updates: http://yournz.org/2013/12/13/brown-report/

    Includes 3 free nights and 5 upgrade nights at Sky Hotels. That severely compromises Brown.

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  109. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    Missing man’s secret CIA mission

    In March 2007, retired FBI agent Robert Levinson flew to Kish Island, an Iranian resort awash with tourists, smugglers and organised crime figures. Days later, after an arranged meeting with an admitted killer, he checked out of his hotel, slipped into a taxi and vanished. For years, the US has publicly described him as a private citizen who travelled to the tiny Persian Gulf island on private business.

    But that was just a cover story.

    An Associated Press investigation reveals that Levinson was working for the CIA. In an extraordinary breach of the most basic CIA rules, a team of analysts – with no authority to run spy operations – paid Levinson to gather intelligence from some of the world’s darkest corners. He vanished while investigating the Iranian government for the US

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/9514373/Missing-mans-secret-CIA-mission

    Another conspiracy rolling out.

    Some one show me where there are no conspiracies with your links and research

    I’ve never seen a conspiracy denier back themselves with a shred of evidence.

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  110. stephieboy (1,120 comments) says:

    “I’ve never seen a conspiracy denier back themselves with a shred of evidence.” ???

    There is a heap of evidence that 9/11 as but one example was not a conspiracy .!

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  111. stephieboy (1,120 comments) says:

    kowtow (5,901 comments) says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 2:44 pm
    Kung a card carrying member of the Communist Party.?
    When and where.???

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  112. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    ‘There is a heap of evidence that 9/11 as but one example was not a conspiracy .!’

    Have you seen a passenger list for the aircraft that hit the towers?

    Have you seen the wreckage of the jet that hit the pentagon?

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  113. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    There is a heap of evidence that 9/11 as but one example was not a conspiracy .!

    Even the official version was a conspiracy stephie. 9 guys who couldn’t fly defeated the most advanced air defenses in the world and accomplished feats even qualified military and civilian pilots say they couldn’t replicate and it was all directed by a fiendishly clever guy from a cave in one of the most backward countries in the world.

    That’s apparently the conspiracy that some idiots actually believe happened. Amazing, isn’t it. How naive could they possibly be, to believe that? Are people who believe that mental? Well you’d have to think so, wouldn’t you. I mean, to believe that really happened, like that? I mean c’mon. What are they? Ten?

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  114. MH (558 comments) says:

    On two separate occassions 3 independant former KGB agents have sworn on oath (Russian Orthodox) that they saw Sarah Palin in Alaska whilst on duty on Big Diomede Island (somewhere in the Bering Sea),even though the sightings were 24 hrs apart than Sarah’s recorded notes…..

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  115. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    Len Brown statement:

    “However, I accept that as Mayor I am subject to a higher standard of public accountability, and in this context I should not have accepted the free rooms offered to me, and should have disclosed this fact when I was asked about it in October.

    “This was an error of judgement and I apologise to the people of Auckland.

    That seems like an admission of lying.

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  116. stephieboy (1,120 comments) says:

    kowtow (5,901 comments) says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    But you concede that St Nicholas was born in the Roman Empire c 300 AD long, long before the rise of Islam and the Ottoman Turks.? The fact that the Ottomans lay siege to Vienna in 1683 seem rather irrelevant.
    Another interesting fact , British ( a Christian nation ) foreign policy in the 19th century ensured that the Turks remained in occupation of the Balkans. They became Britain’s allies to help thwart Russian Expansion ( another Christian nation ) into Asia Minor and the Middle East.
    A really strange world we live in now isn’t it

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  117. stephieboy (1,120 comments) says:

    “There is a heap of evidence that 9/11 as but one example was not a conspiracy .!’

    Have you seen a passenger list for the aircraft that hit the towers?

    Have you seen the wreckage of the jet that hit the pentagon?”

    Flight 77 here,

    http://www.911myths.com/html/757_wreckage.html

    Wiri the Complete passenger manifests are here ,

    http://www.911myths.com/index.php/No_hijackers_on_the_passenger_manifests

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  118. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    stephieboy

    Try to tap into those links when I can

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  119. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    PM playing down voter turnout

    Prime Minister John Key is playing down the level of voter turnout for the referendum on asset sales, ahead of the release of the results later tonight.

    Preliminary results from the citizen-initiated referendum on asset sales are due to be released at 8.30pm.

    As of yesterday, 1,297,281 voting papers had been received by the Electoral Commission – just over 40 per cent of those eligible to vote.

    Key said that was not a persuasive number.

    “Well the numbers don’t look like they’re that significant. I mean at the moment it’s sitting at around about 40 per cent

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9515170/PM-playing-down-voter-turnout

    Using the trivilising card. Trying to stir up a debate to take the focus off Pike River.

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  120. OneTrack (1,960 comments) says:

    stephieboy – “I would take anything Fox news says with a grain of salt quite frankly.”

    Of course you would. They might come up with these alternative ways of looking at the world ie different from the left-wing/progressive bias of the standard MSM outlets ie TV1, TV3 and red radio.

    And that cant be good. Everybody should just do what the progressives say (well they have got BAs or Phds in political science. Of course they should tell us what to think). Now just eat your green stuff and don’t ask what it is.

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  121. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    Manufacturing’s golden run continues

    Manufacturers said there had been a stronger-than-usual pre-Christmas rush.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9513868/Manufacturings-golden-run-continues

    I have a feeling this is more about wholesalers than manufacturers.

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  122. stephieboy (1,120 comments) says:

    OneTrack (1,283 comments) says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    There are very sound reasons why Fox should not be taken seriously and is a joke,

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/27/9-wildest-things-fox-mashup_n_2365592.html

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  123. martinh (824 comments) says:

    So Skycity provides freerooms to Len, Len votes for The skycity convention deal whereas most of his left leaning council doesnt.
    The reason why John Key isnt saying more as this is starting to look very bad for Skycity.
    Us Aucklanders a getting fucked on by dodgy fukas in these positions, who do i need to pay to stop these fuckas turning this city into little beijing

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  124. nasska (9,501 comments) says:

    From PG’s blog: http://yournz.org/2013/12/13/brown-report/

    ….”The review found mayor Mr Brown didn’t show any improper favourable treatment towards Ms Chuang, including the reference he provided for her job at Auckland Art Gallery.”….

    What a cop out! The one thing that could have tripped the masturbating mayor & they glossed over it.

    In future any prospective employer who comes across one of Lying Len’s references as part of a CV should weigh it similarly to a piece of used Purex…..then have the applicant checked for chlamydia.

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  125. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    Len Brown will be vigorously examined by John Campbell tonight on Campbell Live.

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  126. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    What a cop out! The one thing that could have tripped the masturbating mayor & they glossed over it.

    Background
    Ms Chuang was employed by council when she worked at Auckland Art Gallery. The mayor
    provided a brief written email reference relating to Ms Chuang to the Auckland Art Gallery. The
    mayor has advised he provides references for people on a regular basis. The mayor has advised
    he has not provided any other references for Ms Chuang.
    Findings
    1. Ms Chuang did not include the names of her referees in her application for a role at the
    Auckland Art Gallery but indicated three referees were available.
    2. She provided names of referees at the request of the Auckland Art Gallery after her
    interview. The mayor was one of the three referees. The Head of Development, Auckland Art
    Gallery, requested references from two of the three referees. This included a request to the
    mayor on 4 July 2011, via his office.
    3. The Head of Development, Auckland Art Gallery does not recall speaking to the mayor about
    Ms Chuang until after the role was awarded to her. The mayor made three calls to the Head
    of Development, Auckland Art Gallery (mobile and desk phones) on the 5 July 2011 at
    11.27am, 11.28am and 1.15pm prior to the reference being emailed at 1.52pm. The email
    reference was sent by one of the mayor’s Diary Managers.
    4. We have reviewed references provided by the mayor for other people during the review
    period. However, these references were character references or support letters for
    nominations and awards and not employment references for specific roles.

    So Len couldn’t give them any evidence of giving job references for anyone else. That says a lot, doesn’t it. What’s the bet this section was one of the ones that Len’s advisers have been working on rewording during this last week.

    The whole report is like that. You need to read it very carefully, there’s a lot left unsaid.

    http://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/SiteCollectionDocuments/Independent%20Review%20Report%20FINAL%20131213.pdf

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  127. Dirty Rat (377 comments) says:

    who doesn’t get a comp upgrade these days ?

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  128. martinh (824 comments) says:

    Reid
    excellent work

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  129. MH (558 comments) says:

    The sign linguist now admits he was actually giving TAB odds on Len Brown’s successor,Obama’s successor,Nelson Mandela’s successor and the Blackcaps vs WI game. He said the opportunity and immediate coverage of the events was too good not to take advantage of. Did none notice Hone’s was holding a TAB guide?

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  130. Colville (1,771 comments) says:

    Boult is on fire bowling at the Windies. 250 run deficit. NZ could wrap it up today if the weather holds off

    Yessss…… Boult with a 10 wicket bag.

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  131. nasska (9,501 comments) says:

    ….”You need to read it very carefully, there’s a lot left unsaid.”…..

    Right on Reid….the truth will have been subtlety edited out of E&Y’s initial report by Lying Len’s legal team negotiating the release line by line.

    I pity the Auckland ratepayers. They pay about $4 million a year to keep the Mayor & his merry men in clover…..then they pay for a QC & his entourage as well as a team of spin weasels to keep the truth from them.

    Brother….can those Jaffas pick ‘em!

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  132. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    Interestingly in the 2 Ashes series statistically all the games have been won by the team winning the toss and batting first, in England, England won 3-0 having won the toss and batted first in all 3 victories, Australia are 2-0, up in the Australian leg also having won the toss and choosen to bat first. Not looking good for the Waca game, England need to pull of something here.
    As yet no chasing team has won and no team that didn’t win the toss has won.

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  133. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    stephie

    Kung card carrying communist?

    You are tiresome,trolling and literalist.

    A pain in the arse.

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  134. mandk (685 comments) says:

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Is-eating-fish-n-chips-at-an-aquarium-OK/tabid/817/articleID/324959/Default.aspx

    PETA make me want to jump in my car and drive 350km to Napier, just so I can eat fish and chips at the Aquarium.

    Anyone care to join me?

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  135. nasska (9,501 comments) says:

    SEX IN THE IRISH TRADITION

    THE PREPARATION
    Friday Night is very much love-night for the Irish man. Arriving back
    from the pub, having partaken of the traditional Irish aphrodisiac – 12
    pints of Guinness, and some fish and chips, his mind set on one thing -
    LOVE! Or as he says himself “the ride”. His lust, at fever pitch, after
    the sensuous excitement of a hard night’s dominoes, he approaches his
    beloved wife, enticing her with gentle words of passion – “any chance of
    me hole then love?” The good lady in question perhaps over excited by
    the erotic smell of Guinness or the sensuous vision of chips sticking to
    his chin, is at first somewhat reluctant. This coy reluctance is
    expressed with the flirtatious “Would ye ever fuck off!!!”.

    FOREPLAY
    Foreplay is very important indeed. This basically consists of the male,
    whipping off his slightly soiled Y fronts provocatively at his wife,
    that usually land skid-mark side down, as he approaches the bed gyrating
    with one hand on his hip and the other on the back of his head, singing
    the ancient Gaelic fertility chant “Here we go, here we go, here we go”
    Upon reaching the bed he comments proudly on this rampant 8 incher. This
    is a classic example of alcohol induced double vision.

    INITIAL PROBLEMS
    After 12 pints, sometimes the man’s old Willie Winkie is a trifle
    reluctant to extend itself (literally). Impotence is very much a blow to
    the man’s self esteem and the wife has to be very tactful. She will
    offer gentle and sensitive words of encouragement such as “Ye useless
    bastard, ye” or possibly “It never happens to the Milkman”. Oral sex is
    a great favourite of the Irishman. He approaches his wife with a cheeky
    invitation, “How’d ye like to put your teeth round dis?” The woman nods
    willingly and points suggestively to her falsies smiling happily in a
    bedside tumbler. “Go on then”, she says “but don’t disturb me”.

    DOWN TO BUSINESS
    Eventually the moment comes to consummate their tender love. Again
    alcohol induced double vision is an important factor as the man decides
    which of his willies to use for penetration. Sometimes in his excitement
    as he moves into his position he may suffer from severe premature
    ejaculation. A phenomenon he explains to his wife using the poetic
    phrase “Oh fuck, I’ve shot me load.” If this does occur it is essential
    he makes up for disappointing his wife by uttering tender and loving
    compliments such as, perhaps, informing her she’s the nicest woman he’s
    ever come across. An imaginative lover, the Irishman, possibly having
    read the woman likes to be spoken dirty to, says such things as “shite,
    arsehole”. The woman is speechless. The man is now thrusting away, his
    mind a kaleidoscope of jumbled erotic thoughts. The woman wonders if
    they should repaint the ceiling. Sometimes she utters a word of
    encouragement such as “Are you sure it’s in?”. Given his level sexual
    expertise the Irishman’s ideal partner should be a versatile lover
    specialising in the faked orgasm. This takes the form of a breathless
    shout “Ooyah, ooyah, Big Boy”. Eventually its all over. The man roles
    over, falls asleep, and commences snoring like a pig. There’s no one in
    the world performs quite like an Irishman – veritable prince in the
    kingdom of sex.

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  136. Johnboy (13,384 comments) says:

    Bejabbers…..That would be a strange confession for a fellow loike yerself to make on KB Nasska O’Reilly!

    D’ye think yer missus would benefit from more research on this:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/love-sex/9509054/Impasse-in-search-for-womens-Viagra :)

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  137. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    British Universities in trouble over their pandering to the pre medieval Musselman.

    Universities,places where once the greatest traditions of the west were fostered and encouraged,surrendering to immigrant bullshit.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10514551/Official-watchdog-says-university-sex-segregation-plans-not-permissible.html

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  138. nasska (9,501 comments) says:

    Never been a problem around these parts JB….one look at my God like body & nature takes its course.

    That’s my story & I’m sticking to it. :)

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  139. Steve (North Shore) (4,318 comments) says:

    PETA make me want to jump in my car and drive 350km to Napier, just so I can eat fish and chips at the Aquarium.

    Anyone care to join me?

    The fish available in the Auckland Harbour are just fine, and Napier is a shithole.
    PETA are welcome to invade Napier, but come try it up here, we will turn them into groundbait

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  140. cha (3,531 comments) says:

    But..but.. according to the resident apologists they’re all supposed to be homosexuals…

    The royal commission into child sex abuse was yesterday also told how a Brisbane Catholic priest, Father Frank Derriman, ran a cult-like group sexually abusing young girls and giving them all the surname Brown, borrowed from the Peanuts comic strip’s Charlie Brown.

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/hush-fund-catholic-church-paid-43-million-to-keep-abuse-secret/story-fni0cx12-1226779292848

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  141. nasska (9,501 comments) says:

    Surely not cha….that’s unbelievable!

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  142. cha (3,531 comments) says:

    Shocked I am, shocked!.

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  143. nasska (9,501 comments) says:

    Fortunately we have an expert on all things Catholic lurking on this forum tonight cha. He’ll probably confirm that it’s just part of the mass or something innocent like that.

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  144. Sofia (780 comments) says:

    1,297,281 vote in referendum, with 67.2% voting against the asset sales.

    In the 2011 election, 47.31% voted National.
    This suggests the remainder 52.69% voted for a party against asset sales.

    Leaving 14.51% against asset sales still voting for National, and sacrificing the assets, because they obviously didn’t trust Labour or any other fucking party with their vote!

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  145. Johnboy (13,384 comments) says:

    Frankie the priest told a lie
    To the girls that he shagged he would die
    The Pope paid out cash
    To spare him the lash
    And keep the Sky Fairy on high.

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  146. SPC (4,639 comments) says:

    Apparently Anadarko considers Greenpeace’s level of risk assessment as valid, despite the PM calling them extreme case scenarios/alarmist.

    The information being released on a Friday. I suppose leaving this to next week or early in the New Year was rejected as being too obvious a low publicity disclosure.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1312/S00212/anadarko-discharge-management-plan-available.htm

    http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2013/12/whos-scaremongering-now.html

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  147. nasska (9,501 comments) says:

    Two guys were walking down the street one day when they came across a small pair of gym shorts on the ground. They decided to put a sign up on the church bulletin board so the rightful owner could claim them.

    The first one starts to write out the sign: ‘FOUND: one pair of boys gym shorts’

    “Hold on” says the second “Those are girls gym shorts”. “No they’re not” says the first “They’re boys shorts!” The second grabs them from him and takes a closer look, “No, no… definitely girls gym shorts!”

    The two of them are inspecting the shorts in turns and arguing. “Boys shorts!” “No, girls shorts!” “Definitely boys shorts!”… and so on.

    The local priest is walking past as the two men argue and can’t help but ask them what the commotion is all about. The first guy tells the priest and asks him if he could sort out the argument.

    The priest takes the shorts, has a good long sniff, and after pondering for a few moments he looks at the two men and says: “Definitely boys shorts!… but not from my parish!”

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  148. stephieboy (1,120 comments) says:

    kowtow (5,905 comments) says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 6:34 pm

    You the real pain in the bum with your puerile accusations of anyone who does not agree with your wacko beliefs as a leftie Communist .

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  149. SPC (4,639 comments) says:

    Coober Pedy, South Australia = a shale oil find at 700 metres. Potential 233B barrels. Over 10% of current world reserves.

    A find of geo-political significance.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-25/linc-energy-in-shale-talks-with-oil-services-company-in-u-s-1-.html

    http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Australia-Next-Petro-Superstate.html

    With the existing oil reserves in SA/Iraq/Iran/Libya/Russia/Kazakhstan/Nigeria/Venezuela, OPEC has problems now with resumed flow from in Iraq/Iran and Libya and the development of shale oil exploitation capacity in North America without such huge finds as this.

    How economic is deep sea oil exploration in this environment, even if there is a discovery?

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  150. Johnboy (13,384 comments) says:

    Proud to be one of the 432,950!

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9515170/Two-thirds-of-voters-oppose-asset-sales

    Just wish MRP was worth more than $2.050!!! :)

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  151. stigie (625 comments) says:

    The share price will go up Johnboy, you wait and see !

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  152. Johnboy (13,384 comments) says:

    ” Labour leader David Cunliffe said the people of New Zealand had spoken out against the sales.

    “Kiwis have clamoured to have their voice heard on asset sales. More than 310,000 backed the petition and now 1.3 million have voted. Over 67 per cent or almost 900,000 have said no to asset sales,” Cunliffe said in a statement. ”

    Wot Cun*lips really meant to say is that 895322/1328272 x 43.9% =29.59% of New Zealanders said no and the other 70.41% said yes or didn’t give a fuck!! :)

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  153. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    The results of the referendum show the socialistic outlook of a good sector of the NZ public. The brainwash of decades is complete.

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  154. stephieboy (1,120 comments) says:

    Manolo. Paranoid Drivel and an embarrassment to the National Party and even the Conservatives.

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  155. SPC (4,639 comments) says:

    Johnboy, so that means 14.5% of eligible New Zealand voters supported the governments assets sales in the referendum.

    And also that the number of people who voted for National in 2011 was only 1/3rd of the eligible voters.

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  156. OneTrack (1,960 comments) says:

    SPC – and it also means, less than 1/3 of the eligible voters voted Labour, Green, Winston and Mana.

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  157. SPC (4,639 comments) says:

    Yep, using non voters to undermine mandate or referendum credibility is a double edged sword.

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  158. OneTrack (1,960 comments) says:

    If only the referendums were binding, and not universally ignored by all the parties. Oh well.

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  159. Johnboy (13,384 comments) says:

    Never underestimate the political potential of the “do not give a fucks” ! :)

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  160. Sofia (780 comments) says:

    SPC – Johnboy, so that means 14.5% of eligible New Zealand voters supported the governments assets sales in the referendum.
    And also that the number of people who voted for National in 2011 was only 1/3rd of the eligible voters.

    No, SPC, it means 14.5% of those against asset sales still voted for National rather than any other party.
    It means 14.5% of those against asset sales, understood perfectly well when Labour’s Fill-in Goff defined the Election as being only about asset sales, but decided it was better to risk the sales and still vote National rather than any other fucking party.

    What do you not understand about the greater number in the referendum against sales, means the greater the number against sales who still voted National as the Government they wanted?

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  161. SPC (4,639 comments) says:

    Sofia,

    “14.5% of eligible New Zealand voters supported the governments assets sales in the referendum.
    The number of people who voted for National in 2011 was only 1/3rd of the eligible voters.”

    Responding to facts (as these two statements are) with the word no is unwise.

    As for voting behaviour, it changes. Governments come and go, not necessarily on policy but perception that an incumbent government that has lost trust and respect.

    So Labour could win an election in 2014 on a policy of rebuying assets should economic circumstances (share price to dividend return to a 100% owner) permit, even if voters did not want to rebuy the assets.

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  162. SPC (4,639 comments) says:

    As for your calculation that 14.5% of those who voted for National opposed asset sales – can you explain your workings?

    Surely it was not – 47.3% voted National in 2011 and thus 52.7 did not, and … they all opposed asset sales. Thus if 67.2% oppose assets sales now (as per the referendum) then there must be 14.5% of the 67.2% who voted for National back in 2011.

    You don’t work for Statistics New Zealand do you?

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