General Debate 17 December 2013

December 17th, 2013 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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103 Responses to “General Debate 17 December 2013”

  1. Harriet (4,007 comments) says:

    Though it’s a sad time to be alive for anybody who loves the West (as I do), nevertheless it’s still interesting to see its end.

    I empathise with those ancient Romans who retreated to their country villas to escape the depravity of Rome and who continued to observe the old pieties.

    And let’s not forget that the West was once synonymous with Christendom, not capitalism, democracy or markets – they’re late-comers in the West’s history – no, the Christendom of cathedrals and stained glass windows; of medieval craft guilds; of the founding of hospitals and universities; of the astonishing invention of harmony in music; of literature and architecture; of science and eventually technology.

    What a civilization! And to think our children are taught to be ashamed of it. :cool:

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  2. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11173529

    What a pathetic and gutless effort by Auckland Council- Here was there chance to actually do something about this disgraceful fraud and they have slapped him with a wet bus ticket. No wonder he is smirking in the photo…probably heading back to his office for a celebratory tug..

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  3. NK (914 comments) says:

    I feel very sad at reading this: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11173505

    Money quote:

    Dr Brash said there was some irony in him trying to get Mr Hide back into Act but said: “I didn’t push him out in 2011 because I thought he was incompetent. But I thought his reputation at that point was such that he was unlikely to be able to hold Epsom and, if he didn’t hold Epsom, Act was gone.”

    I like Dr Brash a lot. He is a super guy. But he got rid of Hide and pushed for John Banks, whose reputation at the moment is hardly world-leading. I like Banks a lot too; in fact I consider him a friend of mine, same with Rodney Hide.

    So this whole saga is deeply disappointing and bordering on upsetting for me in a lot of ways. I like all three men and respect them a lot. I want Hide back, and think Banks has been dealt a cruel blow through the donations saga. And Dr Brash has so much to offer NZ but I think went about things in the wrong way.

    So many wrongs. But they can be corrected. Hide comes back. Banks is cleared. And Brash contributes to Act Party economic policy. I know it can happen!

    Those are my wishes for 2014.

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  4. Colville (1,768 comments) says:

    Did I make you f*cking dance?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/music/9523762/Offensive-concert-poster-removed

    What the fuck is wrong with fuck? and its not even fuck ! its f*ck !! sheeeeshhhhh…..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnSyu4eZkZ4

    (might be a big mod for some of the crusties that lurk here tho :-) )

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  5. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    Sounds awfully computer generated Colville! (This thirtysomething prefers music played by people who actually play instruments!)

    But nonetheless you have a good point about the ridiculous censorship…

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  6. Azeraph (597 comments) says:

    let’s get rid of all of them. New blood to drink

    bloody christmas. Steak and politicians at the beach.

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  7. Alan (908 comments) says:

    Another horizon poll yesterday asking about the need for a “new party” and what policies they should have.

    Something is certainly afoot, someone is paying good money for these polls.

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  8. Harriet (4,007 comments) says:

    “……What a pathetic and gutless effort by Auckland Council- Here was there chance to actually do something about this disgraceful fraud and they have slapped him with a wet bus ticket……”

    I posted this yesterday Longknives.

    “…..I don’t care who Len Brown fucks….”

    I do care who Len Brown fucks over. :cool:

    As it’s a matter of morality; decency – of course it matters if someone fucks over their wife – it shows the character of the person – and when that person is the Mayor…..then well…….it goes without saying……he shouldn’t be Mayor!

    People do vote for people to be placed in PUBLIC OFFICE based on their perceived character – and the Auckland Council is not a privately owned petrol station – or Bunnings hardware store!

    The Mayoralty is not a ‘job’ but a ‘position’ – Len was ELECTED – not EMPLOYED by follow council members.

    Voters are not all rate payers, meaning that the Mayor does not only lead in matters of ‘economy’ but in matters of society!

    The whole council is weak and they should all just go and get fucked – just like their Dear Leader. :cool:

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  9. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    You forgot the gallows, flaying and the breaking wheel Harriet.

    Western Civilisation brought the world progress… thank christ for that.

    It’s telling that you have to pretend there’s a love the west / hate the west thing happening.

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  10. Tauhei Notts (1,508 comments) says:

    Many people have commented on the tax breaks for the film industry.
    Could somebody please post a link where I might be able to find out EXACTLY what those breaks are.
    I do not want a a site where public relations hacks or politicians (of whatever hue) peddle their stuff.
    I want the cold hard facts. Okay, it will be boring to many people but I am a boring individual.

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  11. NK (914 comments) says:

    You’re a liar Jake.

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  12. MT_Tinman (2,790 comments) says:

    An other day, another day closer to the increase in the police state of NZ.

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  13. Nukuleka (77 comments) says:

    There used to be a wonderful convention called ‘manners’. It essentially encapsulated the notion that one displayed consideration towards others. Now there is a convention called ‘attitude’. It embraces the idea that one is as offensive as one possibly can be to the maximum number of people. Colville, I embrace the former.

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  14. MT_Tinman (2,790 comments) says:

    Just one day away from the day a wet-behind-the-ears policeman can charge, try, convict and punish you (without genuine appeal) for having fun.

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  15. All_on_Red (941 comments) says:

    Australian Greens Senator Lee Rhiannon ( aka Gorman) has admitted attending the Lenin International School in Moscow in the 70”s.”Senator Lee Rhiannon attended the International Lenin School as Lee O’Gorman, the daughter of Communist Party of Australia leading functionaries – and lifelong Stalinists – W.J. (Bill) Brown and Freda Brown. The Browns split with the CPA in the early 1970s in opposition to the CPA’s criticism of the Soviet Union’s 1968 invasion of Czechoslovakia. The Brown-led breakaway pro-Moscow communists formed the Socialist Party of Australia before it, too, split. Lee O’Gorman edited for a period the pro-Moscow magazine Survey – which was controlled by the Brown family.”

    She hid this for quite some time. Her background was always kept vague but it’s pretty clear she is very much an avowed communist who received special training from a “course at the International Lenin School – which was an exclusive institution in Moscow which trained willing comrades for political action and which was controlled and funded by a totalitarian communist regime which locked up dissidents in psychiatric institutions and was overly anti-Semitic. The Greens Senator did not break with the pro-Moscow communists until 1990 – when she was close to 40 years of age.”

    We always accuse the Greens of being red on the inside- well it’s true!
    I see Russell Normans bio is a bit thin in the early years. Was he also part of Rhiannon’s cabal?
    http://www.thesydneyinstitute.com.au/media-watch-dog/

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  16. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    ‘Dr Ironfist’ Vitali Klitschko has retired to pursue politics in the Ukraine..
    A criminally underrated heavyweight champion as far as I’m concerned- 47 fights and 41 knock-outs (the only two fights he lost were stopped due to injuries he suffered during the fight while well ahead on points)
    As testament to how tough this guy was- Lennox Lewis said Klitschko was the hardest fight he ever had!

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  17. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    Nukuleka

    Quite right about the attitude and offence thing…….however there are quite a few “victim” groups in society who are protected and towards whom no offence must ever be given…….

    generally that doesn’t include the group who hold that old convention “manners” to be so important.No amount of offence towards us is ever enough,after all we deserve to be offended being the “crusties”.

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  18. Harriet (4,007 comments) says:

    MT-Tinman

    “…..Just one day away from the day a wet-behind-the-ears policeman can charge, try, convict and punish you (without genuine appeal) for having fun….”

    Youthful exuberance?

    A 1972 case involved a police ‘constable’ who charged some kid in a park for jumping into a duck pond when the sign said Not To.

    The judge said something like “youthful exuberance” in an appeals decision. In other words – wet behind the ears where the Constable was concerned. Or over zealous in stronger words.

    I read that in a law book by some bloke called Muldoon. Not Rob. Apparently it was an important case for some ‘legal principal’.

    It may help to look up on.

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  19. mandk (683 comments) says:

    @ Tauhei Notts
    I was thinking something similar.
    I would be particularly interested to know what the Treasury’s counterfactual was when they argued that support for the film industry was poor value for money:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9524275/Critical-eye-on-Avatar-deal
    Maybe it’s the Treasury’s role to pour cold water on everything

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  20. Sofia (778 comments) says:

    From being buried second last comment on General Debate last night –

    Nice little television ad for CHORUS – rural, friendly and sorta hokey – with just a subtle little mention that the ultra fast broadband roll out will eventually bring about a $33 billion benefit to the country.
Is this so that when the fertilizer hits the domestic air dispersal device, $400 million will seems like peanuts.

    And why has CHORUS in several suburbs done the most remote ends of the area first, working back towards the city centre, so the whole thing doesn’t work until the last part nearest the hub is completed. Was that smart or not?

    And why, at present, does normal broadband on Telecom cost $10 more a month if you are outside the Auckland, Wellington or Christchurch centres?

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  21. lilman (658 comments) says:

    Saw John Hattfield on the news last night,I bet Nelson Mandela is in a better place after having that fine New Zealander coming to se him.

    The irony of it, an activist who battled for equality and to destroy racism visited by an idiot who is truly racist and totally inactive in his elected duties.

    God Defend New Zealand.

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  22. wreck1080 (3,522 comments) says:

    2 women beat a man to death as follows…

    “Around midnight the three drove to Kaiti beach in Singh’s car.

    When they arrived, the two women beat him to death and dragged his body under some bushes.

    The women then drove to Kaiti mall, where they tried to use his eftpos card to withdraw money from a cash machine.”

    What sentence do you think this deserved?

    20 years? 25?

    They got 8.

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  23. James Stephenson (1,885 comments) says:

    so the whole thing doesn’t work until the last part nearest the hub is completed.

    This is just wrong.

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  24. James Stephenson (1,885 comments) says:

    And let’s not forget that the West was once synonymous with Christendom, not capitalism, democracy or markets – they’re late-comers in the West’s history

    Let’s not forget that it was in large part the Black Death that broke both the power of the church and the feudal system in the UK, where Anglo-Saxon and Norse concepts of law made it possible for capitalism to evolve.

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  25. southtop (257 comments) says:

    Now that we are to get some more tree hugging Avatar fiction subsidised by the middle classes, shouldn’t we also go for a Holden plant in, say, Collingwood Golden Bay or Kaitaia?

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  26. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    20 USA Sailors On USS Ronald Reagan Hit With Cancers .

    The USS Ronald Reagan on mission in the South Pacific has been hit with an outbreak of cancers

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_QKSmEdg7c

    Sailors contaminated from Japan. media silent

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  27. dime (8,746 comments) says:

    wiki – source? cant really do youtube at work.

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  28. Sofia (778 comments) says:

    James Stephenson –so the whole thing doesn’t work until the last part nearest the hub is completed. This is just wrong.

    OK, thank you – I was just wondering.
    So what does that imply for the other question… Why is there $10 added to Telecom broadband charges outside Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch?

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  29. cha (3,527 comments) says:

    # Dime.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/radiation-detected-on-us-warship-near-japan/

    http://www.stripes.com/in-growing-lawsuit-servicemembers-fault-tepco-for-radiation-related-illnesses-1.230512

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  30. publicwatchdog (1,805 comments) says:

    Seems that the UK SFO is having problems doing their job:

    https://theconversation.com/hamstrung-sfo-not-capable-of-holding-bankers-to-account-21545

    Penny Bright

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  31. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    ‘wiki – source? cant really do youtube at work.’

    Paul Begley

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  32. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    ‘Seems that the UK SFO is having problems doing their job:

    https://theconversation.com/hamstrung-sfo-not-capable-of-holding-bankers-to-account-21545

    Last person to successfully prosecute bankers was Bill Black back in the 90′s jailing around 1,000 bankers.

    People have no idea how corrupt they are.

    New York City prosecutor is taking cases against bankers now. Very, very hard as they run govt.

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  33. All_on_Red (941 comments) says:

    Penny
    You’d have a great time pursuing corruption in the UK. Check out how these public servants have profited by virtue of their positions.
    “The Mail on Sunday today reveals the extraordinary web of political and financial interests creating dozens of eco-millionaires from green levies on household energy bills.

    A three-month investigation shows that some of the most outspoken campaigners who demand that consumers pay the colossal price of shifting to renewable energy are also getting rich from their efforts.

    Enquiries by this newspaper have revealed:

    Four of the nine-person Climate Change Committee, the official watchdog that dictates green energy policy, are, or were until very recently, being paid by firms that benefit from committee decisions.
      A new breed of lucrative green investment funds, which were set up to expand windfarm energy, are in practice a means of taking green levies paid by hard-pressed consumers and handing them to City investors and financiers.
    £3.8 billion of taxpayers’ money funds the new Green Investment Bank, set up by the Department of Business and Skills. One of its biggest deals involved energy giant SSE selling windfarms to one of the new green funds, Greencoat Wind. The Green Investment Bank’s chairman, Lord Smith of Kelvin, is also chairman of SSE. The bank says it ‘provided expertise’ to enable BIS to take a £50 million stake in Greencoat, which helped fund the SSE sale.
    The same bank’s chief executive, Shaun Kingsbury, is one of the UK’s highest-paid public sector employees. His £325,000 salary is more than twice the Prime Minister’s.
    Firms lobbying for renewables can virtually guarantee access to key Government policy-makers, because they are staffed by former very senior officials – a striking example of Whitehall’s ‘revolving door’.
    Among the most astonishing features exposed by our investigation is the way in which vehement advocates for radical policies designed to curb global warming are making huge sums of money from their work. Here are some of the key figures among the new breed of fat-cat Ecocrats…”
    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2523726/Web-green-politicians-tycoons-power-brokers-help-benefit-billions-raised-bills.html#ixzz2nV84KSiQ

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  34. Weihana (4,475 comments) says:

    wreck1080 (3,271 comments) says:
    December 17th, 2013 at 9:40 am

    What sentence do you think this deserved?

    20 years? 25?

    They got 8.

    Life without parole. Should be the default sentence for “cold blooded” murder. In this case though they were convicted of manslaughter. So the real question is why their actions did not amount to murder? It would be helpful if in cases such as these more was done to report on why manslaughter is used in place of murder. What evidence, if any, was lacking? Is there some technical reason that a murder charge could not succeed?

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  35. EAD (314 comments) says:

    @ Harriet-

    You will enjoy this brief piece by Arguably the world’s pre-eminent Austrian School scholar Jesús Huerta de Soto on “Socialism and the Process of De-civilisation” with reference to the Roman Empire:

    http://mises.org/daily/6141/

    The crux of his argument being that by printing money, increasing taxes and imposing stringent regulations on the lives of individuals, the Empire was, for a time able to survive. It did so however by vastly increasing its own costliness and in doing so decreased the marginal return it could offer its population.

    He also makes note of the decivilizing forces of their welfare state, the regulations (nanny state) that choke the entrepreneurial spirit and infantilise (reality TV/dumbed down media/arguments based on emotion rather than reason) and demoralise the masses.

    Rome he states didn’t fall because of Barbarian invasion but rather the Barbarians easily capitalized on a social process that was already, for purely endogenous reasons, in marked decline and breaking down as co-operation between individuals was progressively replaced by an all powerful state.

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  36. Jack5 (4,215 comments) says:

    Confirmation of the National’s position as Centre-Leftist.

    Rod Oram on Radio NZ’s Labour Programme NZ this morning praising the Government for its new subsidies for the film industry.

    Maybe the next Government will be a National-Labour Coalition.

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  37. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    ‘Life without parole. Should be the default sentence for “cold blooded” murder. ‘

    This case cries out for capital punishment

    A referendum is needed for its return on eye witness evidence or obvious guilt as in this case.

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  38. KiwiGreg (3,129 comments) says:

    “Now that we are to get some more tree hugging Avatar fiction subsidised by the middle classes, shouldn’t we also go for a Holden plant in, say, Collingwood Golden Bay or Kaitaia?”

    “Subsidising” the making of a movie doesn’t raise costs to NZ consumers. Subsidising a car plant does (unless you have the bizarre idea of making cars for export in NZ in which case you will REALLY be subsidising).

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  39. EAD (314 comments) says:

    The excellent James Delingpole who exposed the climategate emails that derailed the Copenhagen “climate conference” hits the nail on the head about civilisation and it’s rise and fall – When you start debasing the currency, you start debasing society:

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100212213/gold-currency-debasement-and-the-fall-of-the-roman-empire/

    My first understanding of the importance of quality money was from Ayn Rand’s Libertarian masterpiece Atlas shrugged:

    “Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men’s protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it bounces, marked, ‘Account overdrawn.”

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  40. Weihana (4,475 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis business (2,688 comments) says:
    December 17th, 2013 at 11:17 am

    This case cries out for capital punishment

    Otherwise than to prevent imminent harm to someone I do not agree that the state should have the right to take human life. Not only is the act itself barbaric, and the very basis for why the actions of these women are so horrendous, but in the event the justice system makes a mistake no amount of compensation or sincere condolences can make up for killing an innocent person.

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  41. Weihana (4,475 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis business (2,689 comments) says:
    December 17th, 2013 at 11:17 am

    A referendum is needed for its return on eye witness evidence…

    You are aware that eyewitness evidence is among the most unreliable forms of evidence?

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  42. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    ‘but in the event the justice system makes a mistake no amount of compensation or sincere condolences can make up for killing an innocent person.’

    Which is why capital punishment should be reserved for eye witness testimony. otherwise life imprisonment.

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  43. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    ‘You are aware that eyewitness evidence is among the most unreliable forms of evidence?’

    Not in the case of multiple witnesses. 2-3.

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  44. Weihana (4,475 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis business (2,690 comments) says:
    December 17th, 2013 at 11:27 am

    Which is why capital punishment should be reserved for eye witness testimony.

    Like for that fat guy seen running down the road wearing a blonde corkscrew wig?

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  45. Jack5 (4,215 comments) says:

    Re Tauhei Notts query on the film industry subsidies in his 8.28 post:

    The following link takes you to the statement by Ministers Joyce (an unlikely subsidiser) and Finlayson (no surprise here). Better, at the bottom you will see a link that will let you download the full agreement.

    http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/three-avatar-films-be-made-new-zealand

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  46. Weihana (4,475 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis business (2,691 comments) says:
    December 17th, 2013 at 11:28 am

    ‘You are aware that eyewitness evidence is among the most unreliable forms of evidence?’

    Not in the case of multiple witnesses. 2-3.

    Yet in this case, which you argue is a case for capital punishment, there was only one eyewitness (from what I have read) and that eyewitness was only a witness to statements made after the fact.

    Putting aside what I consider a ridiculous belief that multiple eyewitnesses are infallible, the principle issue is that no amount of evidence can render a finding beyond all doubt. The only standard possible is beyond all reasonable doubt. This reflects the reality that all knowledge is not known “absolutely” but rather that it is ascertained to be knowledge with a sufficient degree of justification. The implication therefore is that all knowledge has at least a non-zero probability of being incorrect and so no matter what evidentiary standard you set, you can still be wrong and you are inevitably accepting some likelihood, no matter how small, that an innocent person will be executed by the state.

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  47. Nookin (2,887 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/9526029/TVNZ-ordered-to-apologise-to-Colin-Craig

    Regardless of any articular view one may have of Colin Craig, Jesse Mulligan engaged in a petty, prattish and childish diatribe. It is patently obvious that he cannot hide his political prejudices and the sooner TV1 learns to distinguish between fair commentary and pushing one’s own barrow the better.

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  48. KevinH (1,128 comments) says:

    @Harriet
    If Spartacus the TV series is a refection on Roman history, then those ancient Romans, once retired to the comforts of their villa’s, indulged in an assortment of hedonistic activities such as orgies, bestiality, paedophilia, drunkenness and general debauchery. No wonder the great Roman empire collapsed under the weight of it’s own decadence.
    P.S. The Romans also fed Christians to the lions for a bit of light entertainment. Thank goodness Christianity survived.

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  49. alwyn (359 comments) says:

    There were two stories in the paper this morning about murders.
    In one, mentioned above, the couple committing the offence got eight and a half years. No mention of a minimum so that means they will be eligible for parole in 4 years or so. The offence appears to be a simple case of cold-blooded, premeditated murder.
    I the other the offender got life with a minimum of fifteen and a half years before being eligible for parole. This one seems to be less premeditated murder than the other and seemed to more of uncontrolled rage.
    Can anyone explain the difference?

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  50. OneTrack (1,956 comments) says:

    “Jesse Mulligan engaged in a petty, prattish and childish diatribe”

    Condition normal then.

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  51. OneTrack (1,956 comments) says:

    “An other day, another day closer to the increase in the police state of NZ.”

    Eleven months to go.

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  52. Gulag1917 (425 comments) says:

    This is the spoof video that put Shezanne Cassim, 29, of Minnesota USA in a Dubai jail

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  53. iMP (2,147 comments) says:

    TVNZ ordered to apologise to Colin Craig. Very Civilian of them…

    http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/12/17/childish-7sharp-must-apologise-to-colin-craig/

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  54. grumpyoldhori (2,410 comments) says:

    New coach and captain needed for the black caps.
    Now some would say the present captain deserves his position solely by the fact that he is captain, much like the West Indies before independence always had a white captain.
    It seems some are prepared to overlook the fact that since he became captain his average overseas has been 15, hardly the mark of a good middle order batsman is it.
    Now when Ross Taylor believed he needed help whom did he turn, nope not to Heston who played so many tests for NZ but to that old crock Martin Crowe.
    So Ryder who has an average of 40 to take McCullum’s place which also gives you another bowler.
    Shane Bond MBA to be head coach and bowling coach, Martin Crowe to be batting coach.
    And remember people, a GOOD test batsman will have an average of over 40 and at this point we have only two, the dumped skipper and Ryder.
    Oh, captain under Bond reign to be Taylor.
    Now I would love to hear arguments for keeping Heston and McCullum ?

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  55. cha (3,527 comments) says:

    Benghazi9/11!.

    President Bush inexplicably censored 28 full pages of the 800-page report. Text isn’t just blacked-out here and there in this critical-yet-missing middle section. The pages are completely blank, except for dotted lines where an estimated 7,200 words once stood (this story by comparison is about 1,000 words).

    http://nypost.com/2013/12/15/inside-the-saudi-911-coverup/

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  56. MT_Tinman (2,790 comments) says:

    grumpyoldhori (2,368 comments) says:
    December 17th, 2013 at 12:51 pm

    at this point we have only two, the dumped skipper and Ryder.

    There is no “dumped” captain in the test team, nor is there a Ryder.

    Your comment is based on bullshit as is your criticism of the current captain (the only one who would accept the job), notably a century maker in the current series, based on a minor slump in form.

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  57. Manolo (12,617 comments) says:

    A good article: The UK Confronts Islamism
    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/the-uk-confronts-islamism/

    Islam was absent from Europe when this rewiring took place.

    Unlike its Christian and Jewish antagonists, it hasn’t been liberalized or secularized. And it insists on being a public religion because theocracy is what it was built to do.

    Islam was not the religion of the oppressed. It was the religion of the oppressors. It equates morality with authority. If it doesn’t control the public square, then it has no function.

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  58. grumpyoldhori (2,410 comments) says:

    Strange, are you saying Taylor was not dumped, I take it you have read the letter from Shane Bond to NZ cricket concerning Taylor’s dumping.
    The only one who would accept a leadership role, wrong, Williamson can do it and has a far better average overseas than McCullum.

    A century maker in NZ with a better average than Taylor, you will have to do better than that.

    So you believe a captain with an average of fifteen overseas is good enough to take Australia on in Australia ?

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  59. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    Jesse who?

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  60. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    Manolo- The UK aren’t ‘confronting’ Islam. They are meekly standing aside (in fear of ‘offending’ anyone) while the scourge runs riot and takes over a once great Nation…

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/muslim-brick-lane-protest-muslim-2926404

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  61. alwyn (359 comments) says:

    What a miserable lot are Minto and his mates.
    He boasts that he, and 300 or so other remnants of the 1981 protesters gathered in Hamilton the other night. They apparently collected money for some charity in South Africa. Between the lot of them the raised $997. Minto seemed to be proud of that amount, which is less than a cup of coffee each.

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  62. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    NSA’s actions violate Constitution – judge

    The US government’s gathering of Americans’ phone records is likely unlawful, a judge has ruled, raising “serious doubts” about the value of the National Security Agency’s so-called metadata counterterrorism program.

    “I cannot imagine a more ‘indiscriminate’ and ‘arbitrary invasion’ than this systematic and high-tech collection and retention of personal data on virtually every single citizen,” US District Judge Richard Leon, appointed by Republican President George W. Bush in 2002, wrote in a 68-page ruling released Monday (local time).

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/9525729/NSAs-actions-violate-Constitution-judge

    More evidence of the conspiracy coming to the surface.

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  63. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    Judge Leon has issued headline-making rulings before. In 2011 he blocked cigarette-warning labels that showed graphic images such as a man with a hole in his throat, saying they were unlawful compelled speech, and this year he ruled that the Federal Reserve ignored the intent of Congress in a case about debit card swipe fees.

    Greg Nojeim, senior counsel at the Center for Democracy and Technology, a nonprofit group in Washington, said the ruling “means that the NSA bulk collection program is skating on thin constitutional ice”.

    In defending the data collection, US Justice Department lawyers have relied in part on a 1979 ruling from the US Supreme Court that said people have little privacy interest when it comes to records held by a third party such as a phone company.

    Leon wrote that the latest circumstances were different.

    “The government, in its understandable zeal to protect our homeland, has crafted a counterterrorism program with respect to telephone metadata that strikes the balance based in large part on a 34-year-old Supreme Court precedent, the relevance of which has been eclipsed by technological advances and a cell phone-centric lifestyle heretofore inconceivable,” he wrote.

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  64. Pete George (21,798 comments) says:

    alwyn – yes, that’s not much, just one cup of tea nearly cost Key the last election.

    Mandela Remembrance raises $997 for South African shackdwellers – $0 from PM

    Our PM is as shallow as a birdbath.
    John Minto
    Co-vice President
    Mana Movement

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/12/17/mandela-remembrance-raises-997-for-south-african-shackdwellers-0-from-pm

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  65. Manolo (12,617 comments) says:

    Well written! http://www.spectator.co.uk/australia/australia-features/9095122/a-tribute-to-margaret-thatcher/

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  66. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    NZ Govt says will borrow NZ$5 bln less in 2013/14 after underlying budget position improves as economic growth surges

    http://www.interest.co.nz/bonds/67861/nz-govt-says-will-borrow-nz5-bln-less-201314-after-underlying-budget-position-improve-ec

    They say all this now. Just wait for all the excuses come like losing jockeys once the TPP kicks in .

    Can just imagine a top ten list. We should have a competition to see whose top ten list of excuses is closest to Nationals
    who will cite economic underperformance due to TPP constraints in honoring our contracts to trading partners.

    all to easy!

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  67. Ross12 (927 comments) says:

    These guys want to run the country but when things start looking better they say growth is no good because it won’t help everyone. I suppose they are checking out the market for printing presses !!

    http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/20358752/economic-growth-wont-help-most-people/

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  68. graham (2,211 comments) says:

    “Mandela Remembrance raises $997 for South African shackdwellers – $0 from PM”

    “Our PM is as shallow as a birdbath.
    John Minto
    Co-vice President
    Mana Movement”

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/12/17/mandela-remembrance-raises-997-for-south-african-shackdwellers-0-from-pm

    Really? How on earth do they know John Key hasn’t contributed anonymously, or through some other method?

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  69. publicwatchdog (1,805 comments) says:

    How do private sector business people ‘transmogrify’ into competent ‘public servants’?

    Whose interests are being served here?

    Follow the money …..?

    Taxpayers’ Union got any comments?
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10833136

    City acts on contractors’ complaint

    By Bernard Orsman

    5:30 AM Tuesday Sep 11, 2012

    “AECOM New Zealand managing director Dean Kimpton said the company provided a range of services to the council, including a number of on-going commissions to the IES department.”
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    http://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/EN/newseventsculture/OurAuckland/mediareleases/Pages/newchiefoperatingofficerappointed.aspx

    New chief operating officer appointed
    21/06/2013

    After a comprehensive search, Auckland Council has appointed Dean Kimpton as its chief operating officer. Chief Executive Doug McKay says Dean is a passionate Aucklander who is excited to be playing a role in shaping the future of Auckland.

    “Dean joins us from AECOM NZ where he was Managing Director.

    “AECOM is a global leader in all aspects of infrastructure planning, design and delivery.

    “Dean has a breadth of experience at the senior executive and governance levels, as well as in the regulatory and infrastructure business of council and its customers and suppliers.
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    http://www.aucklandtransport.govt.nz/about-us/ProcurementAndSuppliers/Awarded-Contracts/Documents/AwardedContracts.pdf

    160-14-093-PS SIMUL8 RAIL OPERATIONAL MODELLING SERVICES PS AECOM NEW ZEALAND LIMITED $88,000.00 Direct Appointment 10 September 2013

    314-14-128-PS PS PORTAGE RD CYCLE WAY – LAND USE CONSENT APPLICATION PS AECOM NEW ZEALAND LIMITED $72,050.00 Direct Appointment 10 September 2013
    __________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright

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  70. MH (558 comments) says:

    One of the worst “murderers” was a bloke called Gavrilo Princip who under Hapsburg law escaped capital punishment because he was under 20. He died of TB in 1918,his actual max sentence was 20 yrs, imagine if he had got out then !!
    37 million…..”well you started it”.

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  71. Reid (15,506 comments) says:

    The UK aren’t ‘confronting’ Islam. They are meekly standing aside (in fear of ‘offending’ anyone) while the scourge runs riot and takes over a once great Nation…

    Yes. The same forces who are doing that to immigration are also doing stuff like this.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2524321/Girl-Guide-group-told-ditch-God-expelled-Troop-faces-removal-national-body-leaders-rejected-new-rules.html

    It’s a shame that when people think about it, they never seem to direct their thoughts to the root cause, rather merely to the symptoms. Which of course is precisely what the forces who are causing the whole thing in the first place want them to do.

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  72. James Stephenson (1,885 comments) says:

    OK, thank you – I was just wondering.
    So what does that imply for the other question… Why is there $10 added to Telecom broadband charges outside Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch?

    Probably because they can only get straight onto their own core network in those main centres, outside of that there’ll be extra cost to Chorus for use of their regional links.

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  73. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    Sems a body has finally been found from the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald made famous by Gordon Lightfoot

    As was said in the movie Clerks “Wish I’ written that song”

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  74. Ross12 (927 comments) says:

    Enough to make Greenpeace choke !!!

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-16/north-america-to-drown-in-oil-as-mexico-ends-monopoly.html

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  75. MH (558 comments) says:

    Bet the body wasn’t lookin’ like a queen in a sailor’s dream.

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  76. cha (3,527 comments) says:

    Frankie the pope’s been busy taking out the trash.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/17/world/europe/pope-replaces-conservative-us-cardinal-on-influential-vatican-committee.html?

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  77. doggone7 (487 comments) says:

    Longknives

    “What a pathetic and gutless effort by Auckland Council.” Specifically, what would you have done?

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  78. Reid (15,506 comments) says:

    Why the Dow has been rising:
    http://shiftfrequency.com/gregory-mannarino-fed-wealth-creation-machine-from-hell-video/#more-38286

    And what’s going to happen:
    http://gonzalolira.blogspot.co.nz/2013/12/what-if-theres-recession-in-2014.html

    Some may have noted the graph I posted a week ago that charted the confluence between this rally and that which happened just before October 1929. Almost an exact match. The date if it continued following the same trend for the big crash was Jan 14 2014. I don’t think it will be then, but it’s not far away.

    Get ready.

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  79. nasska (9,477 comments) says:

    Reid

    I agree that something has got to give in the USA…..basically there’s nothing right with their economy. Two questions:

    1) Given that the USA is not the powerhouse it once was how long would it take them to recover….if they can?

    2) How do you see the effects impacting on NZ?

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  80. MT_Tinman (2,790 comments) says:

    GOH 01:28

    Sorry, I have been busy watching Oz win The Ashes.

    Taylor turned down the test captaincy whether you like it or not.

    Williamson at the time was not considered, nor should he have been, averaging under 30.

    Talk facts or oplnlon based on facts or expect opinionated pricks like me to pull you up every time.

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  81. Jack5 (4,215 comments) says:

    Campbell on TV3 was putting the boot into the Government tonight for not lifting the subsidies for the film industry earlier.

    No surprise here. TV3′s owner, MediaWorks, is coming out of its financial troubles with tax debt forgiveness from the rest of the country.

    Gimme, gimme, gimme.

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  82. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Regarding the Milner murder/poisoning trial in ChCh.

    Questions..

    Would Rupert Glover be the defence lawyer that you needed like you needed a hole
    in the head ?

    Will this case set a record for the shortest period of jury deliberation in modern NZ history?

    Will she cop 17 years or even more should the extra charges be cumulative ?

    Surely even a drong defence lawyer like Rupert had enough time to dig up some experts on the effects
    of Phenegren to challenge the prosecutions scientific evidence or at least raise some doubts
    He was too tired it seems.

    This drongs best shot was to accuse the prosecution witnesses of “charecter assasination
    of his client.”

    My opinion.
    She is guilty, dead set, but she didn’t have a competant defence.

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  83. Reid (15,506 comments) says:

    1) Given that the USA is not the powerhouse it once was how long would it take them to recover….if they can?

    nasska they’ve got no gas in the tank and they off-shored the engine room. Plus the rest of the world’s really pissed off at them for being so fiscally irresponsible that there is no real international desire except amongst its tame sycophants at OPEC to retain the US as the reserve.

    So all predictions are reading good night, nurse. Come on down, Shanghai and Moscow. It’s going to take twenty years for the MSM to start talking about it but that’s what 2030 is going to be, world finance-wise.

    How do you see the effects impacting on NZ

    If the US goes quietly into the sunset Australia and ourselves will just re-direct ourselves to a China-dominated world without a ripple. However for a lot of reasons I’d say there’s 5% of that happening, 95% some nasty conflicts are coming our way, which will start off with nuclear, not end with them. The good thing is, radiation collects around the equator due to Earth’s rotation, so that’s nice for us, isn’t it.

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  84. nasska (9,477 comments) says:

    You’re right Reid….with the benefit of hindsight, when the USA outsourced its manufacturing base to the East the writing was on the wall. To recover they would have to go back to basics & I don’t think that the will to completely restructure & start again is there. It raises a further question although…..what happens initially when they try to inflate themselves out of the shit?

    ….”The good thing is, radiation collects around the equator due to Earth’s rotation, so that’s nice for us, isn’t it.”….

    It will amalgamate nicely with the radiation from Fukushima…..glow in the dark canned tuna coming our way soon. :)

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  85. lilman (658 comments) says:

    See that Alisom Mau is leaving seven sharp,big fecking deal,it is shit,it was shit and for the life of me it will be in the future .

    Hoskings must have been paid a shit load to go with those labour dickheads.

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  86. nasska (9,477 comments) says:

    Boss, to four of his employees: “I’m really sorry,
    but I’m going to have to let one of you go.”

    Polynesian Employee: “I’m a protected minority.”

    Female Employee: “And I’m a woman.”

    Oldest Employee: “Fire me mate and I’ll hit you
    with an age discrimination suit so fast it’ll make
    your head spin.”

    All turn to look at the helpless young, white, male
    employee, who thinks a moment, then responds:
    . . . . “I think I might be gay.”

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  87. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    I hope I become Gay nasska if I ever get this desperate for a root! :)

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9524277/Lovers-lured-victim-to-his-death

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  88. nasska (9,477 comments) says:

    No one, even after three days on the piss, would be that hard up.

    Surely! :)

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  89. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Interesting case Johnboy.

    Urgent for a root was not the issue here.
    Neither of these hos were up for a root.
    But what was the issue ?

    Can you guess at what pathology was at work ?

    As a man of the world.

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  90. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    Not at all Beryl. I’ve never been au fait with the mindset of lunatic’s. Hopefully you can enlighten us on how they think! :)

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  91. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11174022

    Well that’s it for me then. If Josh is agin it it must be bad!!!!! :)

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  92. nasska (9,477 comments) says:

    Bah! Humbug! :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7epsjyiolop1l13/Xmas%20A.jpg

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  93. cha (3,527 comments) says:

    A wee something too alleviate that humbug.

    http://www.musicradar.com/us/news/guitars/14-devastatingly-bad-christmas-songs-188075

    http://www.badchristmasmusic.com/

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  94. Steve (North Shore) (4,315 comments) says:

    “http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11174022

    Well that’s it for me then. If Josh is agin it it must be bad!!!!! ”
    Why is the sand black on the west coast? not just the iron is it?

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  95. Ross12 (927 comments) says:

    nasska and Reid , you might like to read this re the economic future

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/cheap-central-bank-money-contributes-to-dangerous-bubbles-a-936823.html

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  96. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    OK Johnboy
    you say that you think that you need to be au fait with the mindset of a lunatic in order to
    express an opinion.
    Now we all know what a cop out that is.
    So wrong baby.
    Get off the fence, have the courage of your convictions.
    Answering a question with a question is just pathetic.

    Can you guess what pathology is at work ?
    That is the question i asked….
    As one man of the world to one who i thought was another.
    At least have a try ……..

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  97. Reid (15,506 comments) says:

    Can you guess what pathology is at work ?

    So what is your view Bereal?

    Mine is they’ve become lost in the man-hating fanaticism espoused by the uber feminist brigade plus a big dose of utter racism on top. I thought their sentence incredibly light given their preposterous story, it’s pretty clear it was murder but not enough provable evidence. I also don’t think they’ll change in anyway as a result, they’ll almost certainly merely resent being locked up. They deserved life inside, no parole. Imagine what the press would have done if it was two gay guys and a woman.

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  98. Left Right and Centre (2,388 comments) says:

    There used to be a wonderful convention called ‘manners’. It essentially encapsulated the notion that one displayed consideration towards others. Now there is a convention called ‘attitude’. It embraces the idea that one is as offensive as one possibly can be to the maximum number of people. Colville, I embrace the former.

    Shove your foot in your mouth, then your head up your arse, and hop around for while. Then get bent. :)

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  99. Manolo (12,617 comments) says:

    Dumb and dumber: http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/wellington/news/nbpol/1784043295-david-tua-meets-with-maori-party

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  100. Manolo (12,617 comments) says:

    The authorities continue to pander to the wowsers: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8772871/bars-close-earlier-under-new-law

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  101. Viking2 (10,701 comments) says:

    IRD scolded for errors in tax case

    By Hamish Fletcher
    5:30 AM Wednesday Dec 18, 2013

    Judge unfreezes bank account and in an `unprecedented’ move orders dept to pay costs.

    The IRD, as part of its original application for the freezing orders, said that Marcus Dymock “had a poor history of tax compliance”.

    However, Justice France said this was misleading. He also took issue with how the IRD presented Dymock being out of the country, which invited the inference he might have left New Zealand permanently.

    And he criticised another instance of “loose use of language” by the IRD made as part of “building up a picture of funds being at risk”.

    “I consider these errors significant, avoidable and troubling.”

    He said the errors were “at the upper end of misleading the court”.

    The judge said he did not consider the orders would have been granted “had the correct facts been presented”.

    He also awarded the Dymocks indemnity costs – which means their legal costs will be paid in full by IRD.

    University of Auckland Business School senior lecturer in tax law Mark Keating said the court awarding indemnity costs against the IRD was “unprecedented”.
    =====================================

    About time. Like the police the IRD have been able to rort the system to the detrement of the other party.All at no cost or penalty when wrong.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11174120

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  102. Viking2 (10,701 comments) says:

    More sleaze from Govt. departments.

    The senior Customs official who said there were “brownie points” on offer for intelligence officials passing information to the FBI was running one of the most intrusive and sensitive groups in the country at the time.

    Greg Davis was operations manager for the Integrated Targeting Operations Centre when he emailed colleagues at Immigration NZ to tell them the FBI was after information on internet tycoon Kim Dotcom.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11174141

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  103. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    ‘IRD scolded for errors in tax case’

    conspiracy rages on competing with denial of it.

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