General Debate 4 December 2013

December 4th, 2013 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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143 Responses to “General Debate 4 December 2013”

  1. Colville (1,767 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/9472308/All-Blacks-reign-supreme-again-at-IRB-awards

    Well deserved. Read is the reason they went 14 nil for the year, a man that really steps up for the big games.

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  2. big bruv (12,321 comments) says:

    Has Len Brown resigned yet?

    Has Penny Bright paid her rates yet?

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  3. iMP (2,147 comments) says:

    Interesting week in politics.

    1. Colin King to be challenged as MP in Kaikoura
    http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/12/03/colin-king-being-challenged-for-kaikoura/

    2. Bye bye ACT.
    http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/12/03/the-death-of-act-dec-2013/

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  4. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    Winston Peters is again making baseless accusations over the Kitteridge leak.

    “What will the Prime Minister say when more comes out?” asks Mr Peters.

    The Prime Minister would probably faint with shock if Peters actually fronted up with evidence to support his accusations. A continued absence of supporting evidence gives me the impression Peters is making things up. That’s lying.

    Believing Winston Peters is like believing in Santa

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  5. doggone7 (487 comments) says:

    “Winston Peters is again making baseless accusations over the Kitteridge leak.”

    That Peters regularly makes accusations and will continue to do so is unquestionable.

    Reasonable question though; Who was responsible for the leaks?

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  6. Scott Chris (5,675 comments) says:

    Not a fan of John Banks but honestly, is attempting to conceal the disreputable source of a couple of donations really such a serious crime?

    Mind you, the lesson to be learned here is not to accept political donations from dodgy sources – they’re liable to come back and bite you.

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  7. Manolo (12,614 comments) says:

    Rightly asked by a previous commenter: Who was responsible for the leaks?

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  8. Manolo (12,614 comments) says:

    NZ’s future if Silent T becomes PM and socialist Labour and the Luddites gain political power:
    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LT_VENEZUELA_CAR_PRICES?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-12-02-19-45-51

    Maduro said Monday that he would use new emergency decree powers granted by Congress to enable the government to set “fair” prices for all cars sold in Venezuela. At the same time, used vehicles won’t be allowed to exceed the price of newer models, he said in televised remarks.

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  9. peterwn (2,932 comments) says:

    Chorus and UFB situation. See:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/9472236/Debt-at-core-of-Choruss-fiscal-fragility

    I do not always agree with Chalkie (aka Tim Hunter), but he does make good points about Chorus.

    It is of some concern that if the Government excessively screws down such companies, then investment would dry up. Chalkie made the point that there were warning signs that investors and financial consultants should have heeded.

    Interestingly it does not seem to have caused sufficient concern that would adversely affect investment in general.

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  10. Reid (15,505 comments) says:

    …is attempting to conceal the disreputable source of a couple of donations really such a serious crime?

    If you can’t trust someone in small things you can’t trust them in big things either. And when you’re given a job based on your claim to integrity which all politicians lay claim to either explicitly or impliedly, then lying becomes a very big deal, no matter what the lie.

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  11. iMP (2,147 comments) says:

    Oh dear, is Lianne Dalziel now in breach of the Electoral Act over Chch East like her Dear Leader Cunliffe, with a deliberate selfie?

    http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/12/04/dalziel-follows-cunliffe-breaching-the-electoral-act-over-chch-east/

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  12. thedavincimode (6,102 comments) says:

    is attempting to conceal the disreputable source of a couple of donations really such a serious crime?

    Yes. It’s shonky reprehensible behaviour even if it were not to have been criminalised. Have you forgotten the underlying point at issue? Recall the Peters donations kerfuffle?

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  13. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    Who was responsible for the leaks?

    That’s unknown, there has been no evidence produced that shows who was responsible.

    Peters is a serial liar – he insisted he had evidence, he kept changing his claims as information became known, and then had to admit he had no evidence. He still has no evidence. Perhaps he hopes evidence will appear in his Christmas stocking.

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  14. Komata (963 comments) says:

    According to the 0600 National News, New Zealand has dropped-out completely in the world OECD rankings for excellence of children’s education in English, Maths and Science, being replaced by China, Japan, and Taiwan. This ranking is apparently a ‘rating’ done every four years and is internationally very important as it indicates the education-levels of various countries.

    It is the lowest result that New Zealand has EVER achieved!!!!!!

    By way of consolation, the results were equally devastating for the Western European counties, which were all similarly-treated, with only Finland remaining in the top section of the list- and that in only science. Shock, horror!!!

    It will be interesting to see what spin the NZ Labour party and the PPTA/NZEI put on this, as it reflects VERY poorly on their abilities as teachers and is a tangible indication of their extremely ‘obstructionist’ policies towards education, policies which are NOT designed to improve the education of the children they teach, but to advance an ideology and be self-serving of their own interests.

    It also IMHO, shows the complete failure of the socialista’s ‘Tomorrows Schools’ policies, where putting condoms on cucumbers is considered a greater achievement than preparing children for the real world where knowledge of basic English, Science and Maths will actually help them into work.

    As I said, it will be interesting to see the reaction – and the excuses that the PPTA / NZEI make for this failure.

    Although I hope that i am wrong, I won’t be holding my breath and be expecting anything approaching an acknowledgement of failure, or an indication that they ‘must try harder’.

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  15. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    @marcuslush

    Coilin Craig has just told me he is not sure that man has walked on the moon!

    More tweets from various listeners:

    “I don’t believe it, I don’t not believe it”

    “I’m not sure if man walked on the moon. I’m inclined to believe it.”

    “I’m not saying the moon landing didn’t happen, but how’d they break through the firmament? I’d need to hear more about that.”

    ‏@patrickgowernz

    Colin Craig told @marcuslush he’s “inclined to believe” man walked on the moon, but there’s some “serious people” who say it didn’t happen

    AUDIO: Conservative Party leader – not sure of moon landings – hasn’t looked into it

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  16. flipper (3,266 comments) says:

    A grumpy teacher sent me this copy of email broadside that she fired at TVNZ this morning.,
    I saw the item and agree.

    *** … The Telegraph in London (see below) this morning presents another view of the OECD education tables.
    As a qualified and registered teacher I want to make it clear that unions, presented by you as “teachers” do NOT represent the views of most teachers,. They present a biased trade union-labour view.

    Your acceptance of their view, and your pejorative questioning of Minister Parata, does TVNZ, and Street in particular, no credit. Please adopt a neutral stance as an organisation reporting news, rather than editorializing under the guise of “questions”.
    Yours….\XXXXXX

    http://telegraph.co.uk

    OECD league tables: UK pupils ‘fail to work hard enough’

    Top academic says gulf in education standards between UK and Far East – exposed by new OECD league tables – is down to different attitudes towards hard work
    What UK can learn from the rest of the world
    • Speed read: How pushy parents made Shanghai’s children smart
    • ‘Far East’s success has come at a terrible price’
    Are you up to the OECD maths challenge?
    Think you know your percentage from your average? As UK schools struggle, take our maths quiz and test your skills…

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  17. Oskar (33 comments) says:

    The latest PISA scores are out, and New Zealand has dropped – again. And Shanghai remains on top.
    First let’s look at Shanghai. Shanghai maybe where China aspires to go, but Shanghai is not China. New Zealand would be far higher up the rankings if only e.g. the inner city schools in Auckland and Wellington were tested as representing all of New Zealand (think Wellington College and Wellington Girls, Auckland Grammar and Epsom Girls Grammar).

    Chinese education still focus’s very heavily on rote learning and test taking – two things that we in New Zealand have moved away from. For those interested in how Chinese education see this article and also especially the links in it to other articles – http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/11/30/china-s-schools-teaches-kids-to-take-tests-obey-the-state-and-not-much-more.html

    The first link in this article is to a piece from the New York Times by Tom Friedman looking at why Shanghai does so well in PISA tests. He considers it due to be the rote learning and the focus on the basics of maths, science and reading. The above article and the second link in this article acknowledge these are strengths but that there are also weakness’s in the Chinese system that they are trying to address.

    Second let’s look at New Zealand and what may have changed over the last decade that would affect this 15 year old cohort – and the cohort three years ago.
    1. The Numeracy Project. This was introduced in 2000 and was described as a revolutionary method for teaching mathematics. But it does not seem to have worked as planned. See this headmasters blog where he describes it as “an unfortunate experiment” http://www.cathedralgrammar.school.nz/headmasters-blog/6673-another-unfortunate-experiment–the-numeracy-project
    2. Teacher professional development – up until I think 3-4 years ago the funding for this was centralised but then the funding was given to schools who then had to decide teacher development and training or school maintenance??
    3. NCEA does not teach good test taking strategies.

    I am sure that there many other changes that have happened. On the face of it, it’s not what is being taught but how it’s being taught. As for National Standards (and these PISA test results) a mantra of management is “if you can’t measure it you can’t manage it”. Our education system is being measured and its not world class.

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  18. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    Sneering headline on Stuff this morning-

    “Rock N Roll Dinosaurs announce Auckland show”

    Yep- Some fresh out of high school wannabe ‘journalist’ who probably has his/her first job at Stuff obviously thinks it’s funny to mock the legendary Rolling Stones. (Likely chewing bubblegum and listening to Katy Perry while writing that unimaginative drivel also)

    Go fuck yourselves Stuff website. I will fork out whatever I have to to see the Stones again, they are fucking phenomenal live..

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  19. flipper (3,266 comments) says:

    Komata…

    Excellent !

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  20. WineOh (428 comments) says:

    @ Komata, they will point the finger at failed government policies and attempts to run ramshod over the advice of qualified education professionals. Anything except take any blame themselves.

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  21. Manolo (12,614 comments) says:

    Dunne’s fifth-columnist doing the work of his master: discredit all potential competitors. Pathetic, really.

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  22. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    Hypocrite of the day “doing the work of his master discredit all potential competitors” – very funny Manolo.

    Do you think man has been on the moon? Or are you uncertain like your friend Colin?

    I’m not sure if Craig is naive and doesn’t know how he should handle ‘trick’ questions, or if he’s a conspiracy nut like Manolo.

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  23. MH (558 comments) says:

    to be added after the J. Bright mantra

    Has Dunne handed over the rest of his redacted emails?

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  24. iMP (2,147 comments) says:

    Pete George, have you actually listened to the audio? You’re obsessed with Colin Craig (2 posts in a couple of minutes). He said he doesn’t have an opinion but is inclined to believe men did walk on the moon.

    This is a political crime of the century how? Man, you guys are running scared aren’t you.

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  25. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    Conservatives have obviously spooked the United Party ( membership 6 including Dunns relos )

    Pete George mud thrower…

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  26. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    Did you miss the Privileges Committee report MH? He shouldn’t have had to hand over any emails.

    Inquiry methods heavily censured

    An investigation by Parliament’s privileges committee slammed as “unacceptable” the inquiry being handed information including emails, phone records, and swipe card records when it had no formal powers to demand them.

    Parliamentary Service was also heavily criticised.

    The committee’s report centred on Parliamentary Service, and also the Henry inquiry for over reaching its powers.

    “It is clear from the evidence we heard that the inquiry’s persistent pressure on the Parliamentary Service and approaches to third-tier and more junior staff had a part to play in the releases which resulted,” it said.

    Privileges committee chairman Chris Finlayson said the way the information was handed over was “totally unacceptable”.

    There had been no consideration given to the special status of both MPs and journalists.

    Henry inquiry cluster muck.

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  27. Ashley Schaeffer (336 comments) says:

    @ Komata
    They were on TV last night blaming National Standards.

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  28. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    iMP – Craig is not handling stupid questions well. He is giving what many people see as stupid responses. It’s hard to see how he would manage as an MP, especially in Parliament. Or in an election debate.

    If he doesn’t work out how to give thoughtful, sensible answers – or avoid answering questions that would be imprudent to be drawn in to – then he’s going to struggle to maintain current levels of support let alone double them to make 5%. And John Key will be seriously considering the risks of any association with Craig.

    If Craig keeps blundering along it will break the Conservative Party. He has to learn a better way of doing things.

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  29. Morgy (167 comments) says:

    The time has come. National must SMASH teacher unions. They must make an aggressive case to get parents on board to allow them to punish schools who don’t follow their bosses (MOE) direction. In nearly every branch of government there are forces stopping progress. We now have a litany of examples that can be used by the government to illustrate how we are not reaching our potential as a nation because of the unions, regulatory left wing politics, tree huggers et al. Get the message right and good right minded Kiwi’s will get in behind and rebuke the efforts of these wreckers.
    The time has come!

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  30. SGA (510 comments) says:

    Komata at 8:40 am

    By way of consolation, the results were equally devastating for the Western European counties, which were all similarly-treated, with only Finland remaining in the top section of the list- and that in only science. Shock, horror!!! …
    It will be interesting to see what spin the NZ Labour party and the PPTA/NZEI put on this, as it reflects VERY poorly on their abilities as teachers…

    Looking at our schools however, tells only half the story (but that’s not to say it isn’t important). I know a young woman who went through school in Shanghai, and I have friends raising their family in Japan. On average, families in these places take educational success much more seriously than in NZ (and I think you can see echoes of that in many asian families within NZ). Not just making sure all the homework is done every night; it’s not uncommon for parents to arrange for regular private tuition for their child on top of their school time. In NZ, I suspect that many parents would be more comfortable spending extra money on a football academy and extra cricket coaching than help with English and Science.

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  31. Fletch (5,716 comments) says:

    Craig is not handling stupid questions well. He is giving what many people see as stupid responses. It’s hard to see how he would manage as an MP, especially in Parliament.

    So PG, wait, you’re saying parliamentarians never give stupid responses? Or ask stupid questions?
    Are you really suggesting that?

    We must be living in different countries :)

    A great amount of the fodder in Kiwiblog is made up of MP’s stupid questions and responses.

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  32. dime (8,746 comments) says:

    The best thing Craig can do is take advice from PG LMAO

    I listened to craig being interviewed by that old guy on radio live. he was all over craig, going for the throat etc fair enough.

    craig didnt get his point across – he was basically saying he likes to keep an open mind and doesnt make a final decision on things until hes done some research.

    i get the point he was trying to make, but yeah, some things dont require research.

    eg does NZ have a rape culture. Correct answer – of course it does! just ask pete fucking george

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  33. MH (558 comments) says:

    Although NCEA is at secondary level,the problem is we have too many women teachers at primary grounding level. Good as they may be boys need male role models. Men are deterred from teaching because of the PC and non touching brigade. And here one principal doesn’t know why….

    The Bay of Plenty Times has learned of at least one primary school with no men on the teaching staff this year.

    Papamoa’s Golden Sands has had male teachers before but all 15 this year are women, said principal Mel Taylor.

    “I don’t really know why. I guess it’s potentially an area that some people just aren’t interested in.”

    As a general rule, the percentage of male staff at any school was 10 per cent “at best”.

    When the two-year-old school began searching for staff, three of about 70 applicants were male.

    She said there were some “wonderful” men coming through teaching college but it was hard to attract males at primary level.

    A long-standing public perception of male teachers having “poor intentions” could be one reason, she said.

    Latest New Zealand Teachers’ Council figures reveal that of more than 100,000 registered teachers with practising certificates nationally just over 20,000 are male. The council could not provide regional data.

    Bay of Plenty Polytechnic and University of Waikato teaching courses continued to be dominated by women but three males had enrolled in the polytechnic’s Early Childhood Education course for the first time in four years

    As for Dunne,he’s still left himself open to a nagging doubt as to why,not the righteousness of his actions, or the denial of his privacy,he was in a privileged posn privvy to sensitive information as a Minister. His actions in vetting (his emails to the journalist) can only lead to one conclusion – he is a blogger and Judge Blackie will have’em for sure.

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  34. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    Man, you guys are running scared aren’t you.

    I think there are widespread concerns, but I wouldn’t call it ‘scared’. Banks and Act look to be on the ropes. Dunne’s future is precarious. The Maori Party may struggle to keep seats let alone stay in Parliament, and they vote against National more than with anyway.

    I’d be very surprised if many in National aren’t worried about possibly only having Colin Craig and/or Winston Peters to rely on for support. Especially when you look at the Labour/Norman/Turei/Peters/Harawira alternative.

    John Banks is having a press conference at 11 am.

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  35. doggone7 (487 comments) says:

    “It will be interesting to see what spin the NZ Labour party and the PPTA/NZEI put on this …it will be interesting to see the reaction – and the excuses that the PPTA / NZEI make for this failure… Although I hope that i am wrong, I won’t be holding my breath and be expecting anything approaching an acknowledgement of failure, or an indication that they ‘must try harder.”

    It will be interesting seeing and hearing the range of responses from all over. I’m looking forward to hearing about some of the technicalities and what is involved in the testing, some of the sort of background stuff touched on by Oskar and what the results actually mean.

    The first flush of responses has been hysterical and knee jerk. Hearing Dr Fiona Ell from the University of Auckland on National programme was reassuring and provided food for thought other than lining up the Minister and teachers in front of a firing squad.
    Unfortunately the lunatics will control the debate rather than voices of reason.

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  36. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    he was basically saying he likes to keep an open mind and doesnt make a final decision on things until hes done some research.

    What planet was he born on? Ok, he was only 18 months old when Armstrong walked there but he doesn’t have to go to the fucking moon and check for footprints.

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  37. wreck1080 (3,522 comments) says:

    Shocking lies from Cosgrove, and sensational inaccurate headline by stuff — why we need Kiwiblog & whaleoil!!!

    Disclaimer: I don’t like Cosgrove.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9474016/Govt-lowers-asset-sales-estimate
    **************
    “Asset sales a stuff up”
    Finance Minister Bill English has revealed the Government now expects to raise at least $4.6 billion from asset sales, cutting earlier estimates.

    Speaking to the Finance and Expenditure select committee, he said that since announcing the earlier target of $5b-$7b, included proceeds from Solid Energy, the mining company had come near to collapse.

    Today he said that excluding Solid Energy from the range, and with the existing sales having raised almost $4b, Treasury now estimated the sales would raise $4.6b-$5b.

    Labour’s state owned enterprises spokesman Clayton Cosgrove said the government had “stuffed up” the valuations of the companies, with investment bankers warning of Solid Energy’s problems long before the sales began.
    ****************

    So, labour sabotages the price of the electricity companies and then has the gall to blame national?

    Also , removing SE from the asset sales will of course reduce the prior target which included SE. Simple maths dumdums. SE has other issues which have nothing to do with asset sales.

    So, the govt has raised about 10% less than expected — which I think can be attributed to Labour sabotage of the process.

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  38. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    MH, re male teachers.

    If the balance was the other way around there would be shreiking for gender equality in teaching and gender based quotas.

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  39. J Bloggs (100 comments) says:

    Why don’t men want to be primary school teachers? Easy.

    Christchurch Civic Creche.

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  40. Ashley Schaeffer (336 comments) says:

    I’m sorry, but I have to agree with Pete George on Colin Craig and I want to vote Conservative. The guy has to learn how to handle these foolish questions being fired at him without sounding like a fool. It’s starting to get a bit embarrassing and he is going to lose support.

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  41. Jack5 (4,211 comments) says:

    Re Pete George’s 8.44 post on Craig and radio man Lush:

    I listened to the clip, and when Lush asked him whether he believed Man had walked on the Moon, Lush replied:”I’m inclined to think they did.”

    He gave the impression he didn’t have the time for, or give the priority to, looking at conspiracy theorists’ doubting of the Moon landing.

    Pete, you push Possum Pete Dunne’s barrow so hard on Kiwiblog that DPF should charge you advertising rates.

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  42. mandk (682 comments) says:

    @ WineOh; “they will point the finger at failed government policies and attempts to run ramshod over the advice of qualified education professionals. Anything except take any blame themselves.”

    But teachers aren’t professionals. If they were, they would have a professional body and professional standards.

    They have chosen to make teaching a trade, and to engage in endless truculent obstructionism.

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  43. Jack5 (4,211 comments) says:

    Regarding international education rankings, with Asian schools at the top.

    You cannot rule out a genetic factor.

    Some people are smarter than others. Some groups of people are smarter than others, just as some people and groups are better than others at some sports, and some other activities.

    Human beings are mammals, and it is particularly stupid in an agricultural country with an excellent tradition of stock breeding and racehorse breeding, to surrender to PC-ism and rule out genetic traits in educational performance.

    Mind you, with the amount of cheating by foreign (usually Asian) students in NZ, that’s another possible factor that ought to be considered.

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  44. Ashley Schaeffer (336 comments) says:

    I trained to become a primary school teacher in the mid-90′s before electing to pursue a career elsewhere. Though I couldn’t put my finger on it at the time because I just didn’t have the political awareness, I always felt something was slightly off and it ultimately affected my decision to pursue a different career. Looking back, I can see now that it was a Socialist paradise and I can only imagine the grief I would have encountered in the school system with my developing conservative views.

    I distinctly remember it being drummed into us that as males we would have to keep the kids at arms-length at all times lest we put ourselves at risk of being labelled a pedophile. Yeah, that’s going to make you want to stay around. I also remember being lectured on how to keep control of children in the classroom by a woman who had never actually taught children in a classroom. A few of us who had worked as teacher aides before going to teacher’s college questioned her theories but no dissenting views were allowed.

    “Dumbing Us Down” by John Gatto is a good book that goes a long way to explaining the mess the U.S. school system is in and there are parallels with where the NZ education system has been heading over the past 2-3 decades.

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  45. iMP (2,147 comments) says:

    If Banks goes at 11am (he has to) will Key be forced into a General Election?

    http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/12/04/if-banks-goes-at-11am-will-there-be-a-general-election/

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  46. dime (8,746 comments) says:

    Banks not standing again! Praise Allah!

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  47. Alan (908 comments) says:

    I heard Colin Craig on radio today; he was too soft and nice.

    He needed to grab control of the interview, refuse stupid questions and articulate his vision.

    He didn’t. He needs to grow a pair fast or the media will walk all over him. Nice guy Colin isn’t going to work.

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  48. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    3 News report on Colin Craig’s moon landing:

    “I have no idea, mate. That’s what we’re told,” said Mr Craig.

    “I’m sort of inclined to believe it, but at the end of the day I haven’t looked into it, and I know there are very serious people that question these things.”

    Mr Craig says without evidence, he’s not inclined to believe one way or the other.

    “I’m not going to judge any of these things without the facts,” he says.

    “I think we’ve had too many politicians for too long who judge things without facts. It’s actually not a priority, surely, for me to have a position on these sorts of things when my job is ultimately going to be to fix the issues of New Zealand… I don’t have time to look into it.”

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Colin-Craig-not-sure-about-moon-landing/tabid/1607/articleID/323879/Default.aspx

    No, it’s not a priority for Craig to know these things. If he wants to succeed in politics it should be a priority that he not leave himself open to ridicule so much.

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  49. dime (8,746 comments) says:

    “If he wants to succeed in politics it should be a priority that he not leave himself open to ridicule so much.”

    LMAO you first.

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  50. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    Message from Hon John Boscawen, ACT Party President

    Today, Hon John Banks, MP for Epsom and leader of ACT, has announced that he will not be seeking re-election in the 2014 General Election. John has decided, after 36 years of public service, that it is time for him to spend more time on his family and his private business interests. In the meantime, John will continue as the MP for Epsom and Leader of ACT.

    As part of its candidate selection process for general elections, the Board of ACT will shortly be opening nominations for candidates to stand for ACT in the 2014 General Election. We have a number of very talented potential candidates and we expect to name our key candidates, including a new candidate for Epsom, by the time of our annual conference in early March.

    The seat of Epsom has been held by an ACT MP since 2005, and we believe those MPs have served Epsom and New Zealand well. Since 2008, ACT has supported the John Key lead National coalition government in providing stable centre right government to New Zealand. The importance of this has been recognised by the voters of Epsom, who have continued to elect an ACT MP throughout this time.

    http://www.act.org.nz/?q=news

    This was inevitable. I hope Act survives but it won’t be easy.

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  51. J Bloggs (100 comments) says:

    The problem Colin Craig has is that the media is always out to put a label on a politician. CC, by his responses, has allowed the media to tag him with the label “Fringe lunatic”. As such, that is the angle they will take, and the spin they will put whenever he is interviewed. He’s got a lot of work to do now to change that perception

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  52. Lance (2,309 comments) says:

    Yep
    The Apollo program cost $24,000,000,000 back when that was a lot of money.
    Employed 400,000 top engineers and scientists

    Only pimply faced self taught wannabes are questioning the achievement.

    Must have been faked.

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  53. flipper (3,266 comments) says:

    J Bloggs (6 comments) says:

    December 4th, 2013 at 10:07 am

    Why don’t men want to be primary school teachers? Easy.

    Christchurch Civic Creche.
    *****

    Yep,
    And a prick who wears Burberry camel hair coats, Brent Stanaway.

    And don’t give me any shit about ” he was just doing his job”.
    The case was dishonest, and he perpetuated the dishonesty.

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  54. Reid (15,505 comments) says:

    As such, that is the angle they will take, and the spin they will put whenever he is interviewed.

    Yes it’s very striking isn’t it that they never ever play this tactic with the Gweens but with the conservative end of the spectrum they attempt it 24/7/365 across the board and it’s attempted by every single wretched execrable media organ apart from the reputable specialists like the NBR and TransTasman.

    Frankly I’m amazed more of the public haven’t woken up to what they do, it’s been consistent and rampant for decades now.

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  55. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    Christchurch is a weird place. (I won’t mention killer **** and the dopey jury.)
    http://laudafinem.com/2012/06/04/brent-stanaway-crown-law-and-the-gwaze-case/

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  56. RichardX (288 comments) says:

    iMP (1,812 comments) says:
    December 4th, 2013 at 9:16 am
    He said he doesn’t have an opinion but is inclined to believe men did walk on the moon.

    It should not be a matter of belief or opinion
    As with evolution, there is irrefutable evidence

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  57. Alan (908 comments) says:

    “The problem Colin Craig has is that the media is always out to put a label on a politician”

    No, the problem Colin Craig has, is that he’s too soft and lets the media define him.

    Predators always savage the weak, it’s the way of things. He needs to htfu and realise he’s playing big boys rules now.

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  58. Reid (15,505 comments) says:

    Everyday people just walking around the streets in the Victorian Era. Amazing when you think all of them are long dead and lying under those old gravestones you see in the cemeteries. Puts a human face on history.

    http://www.snotr.com/video/12365/Vicotria_Era_footage

    No, the problem Colin Craig has, is that he’s too soft and lets the media define him.

    No, the problem Craig has is he represents the “wrong” side and whoever he is the media would attempt to define him. This is not a Colin Craig issue it’s a media issue because the raging lefties can’t control themselves whenever they see a conservative.

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  59. Scott Chris (5,675 comments) says:

    Have you forgotten the underlying point at issue? Recall the Peters donations kerfuffle?

    I see your point but Peters’ transgressions are more numerous and more corrupt in nature when you consider, for instance, the smelly connection between his position as racing minister and the $150k in donations made by the Vela family.

    And let’s face it – Peters is still in parliament.

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  60. Scott Chris (5,675 comments) says:

    If you can’t trust someone in small things you can’t trust them in big things either.

    Hmm, I don’t know. I get the feeling Banks didn’t cross any lines that haven’t been crossed by many other Kiwi politicians but was unfortunate enough to get caught.

    I’m not saying that low-level corruption is an acceptable thing but the rules as they stand appear to allow for it. A simple solution would be to change the law to make anonymous political donations illegal.

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  61. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    I don’t have a problem with what Colin Craig said.

    If he said, “I’ve investigated it a lot and decided the moon landing was faked,” I’d think he was silly.

    But clearly, from his perspective, he’s got the impression that the moon landing is one of those things that are a bit controversial, like the JFK assassination or that the CIA introduced crack to the US or whatever. He was asked about it and gave an honest answer.

    RichardX says it shouldn’t be a matter of belief or opinion because there is irrefutable evidence. So Colin Craig hasn’t spent time going into the irrefutable evidence. Hardly the crime of the century.

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  62. wf (312 comments) says:

    Re Pete George’s 8.44 post on Craig and radio man Lush:

    I listened to the clip, and when Lush asked him whether he believed Man had walked on the Moon, Lush replied:”I’m inclined to think they did.”

    He gave the impression he didn’t have the time for, or give the priority to, looking at conspiracy theorists’ doubting of the Moon landing.

    ****
    I didn’t hear the interview, but I DID hear Lush and Gower earlier, giggling about what silly questions they could ask Craig. Tragic.

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  63. lilman (658 comments) says:

    Heard Peter Dunne claiming vindication over the emails in the leak enquiry.
    What an arse.
    Old man perving on young reporters then refusing to comply fully with an Government enquiry ,resigns and say hes vindicated.
    No wonder we are poorly thought of as a political nation.
    His wife has to sleep with the wanker ,atleast I can hit the on/off button.

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  64. TheContrarian (1,043 comments) says:

    “I didn’t hear the interview, but I DID hear Lush and Gower earlier, giggling about what silly questions they could ask Craig. Tragic.”

    Craig should stop taking the bait firstly. Secondly his answer was profoundly stupid.

    “But clearly, from his perspective, he’s got the impression that the moon landing is one of those things that are a bit controversial”

    It isn’t the least bit controversial. Tin-foil hat wearing ‘theorists’ disbelieving the moon-landing does not a controversy make

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  65. edhunter (434 comments) says:

    And of course there’s irrefutable proof that there’s a sky fairy….oh wait….

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  66. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    It isn’t the least bit controversial. Tin-foil hat wearing ‘theorists’ disbelieving the moon-landing does not a controversy make

    If it is not controversial, why did he get asked about it in an interview?

    Because to people who know that it’s a hilarious stereotypical conspiracy theory, that’s a funny thing to do.

    If Colin Craig was as immersed in pop culture as the NZ blogosphere and Twittersphere, he would know that it’s a hilarious stereotypical conspiracy theory. But he’s not, so he doesn’t, and this whole thing has the feel of making fun of someone for mispronouncing a word and tricking them into saying it over and over.

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  67. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    To be clear, I think Colin Craig is very wrong on a great number of things, especially policy questions. I just think interview time with him could be better spent than with sniggering high-fives when he’s not looking.

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  68. TheContrarian (1,043 comments) says:

    “If it is not controversial, why did he get asked about it in an interview?”

    To trip him and make him take the bait for their own amusement? To call the moon landing controversial is ridiculous

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  69. dime (8,746 comments) says:

    Best November XV
    15. Israel Folau (Australia)
    14. Julian Savea (New Zealand)
    13. Wesley Fofana (France)
    12. Jean de Villiers (South Africa, capt)
    11. George North (Wales)
    10. Quade Cooper (Australia)
    9. Fourie du Preez (South Africa)
    8. Kieran Read (New Zealand)
    7. Sean O’Brien (Ireland)
    6. Tom Wood (England)
    5. Courtney Lawes (England)
    4. Eben Etzebeth (South Africa)
    3. Owen Frank s (New Zealand)
    2. Bismark du Plessis (South Africa)
    1. Cian Healy (Ireland)
    The Telegraph, London

    umm ok.

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  70. Manolo (12,614 comments) says:

    Here are the world’s 10 most corrupt nations, starting with the worst:
    Somalia
    North Korea (tied with Somalia and Afghanistan for No. 175)
    Afghanistan (tied with North Korea and Somalia for No. 175)
    Sudan
    South Sudan
    Libya
    Iraq
    Uzbekistan
    Turkmenistan (tied with Uzbekistan and Syria for No. 168)
    Syria (tied with Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan for No. 168)

    The common factor among most of these hellholes: the vile Islam, the religion of peace.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/03/idUS95815491020131203

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  71. thedavincimode (6,102 comments) says:

    Scott Chris

    The benchmarks for standards of behaviour are absolutes, not relatives. What the arsehole Peters did isn’t relevant to Banks, nor is the fact that despite his shenanigans, he’s still in parliament taking his grannie naps.

    This kind of “X did Y so I can do Z because it’s not as bad” mentality is insidious. It pervades many of the responses we see in society today; often when people want to justify their own unacceptable or illegal behaviour.

    eg “I can pinch X from Y because Y has got plenty more/can afford it”, or “I can do a few ‘cashies’ because it’s not much and those big corporates dodge their taxes anyway”. You see it when beneficiaries justify not taking jobs that are below their qualifications and skill-sets, or don’t bother to work because when they add up the costs associated with working relative to sitting at home “I don’t get much more money so it isn’t worth it”.

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  72. nickb (3,629 comments) says:

    davinici…..yes…yes…yes

    The late, great philu was one of the main proponents of this point of view, proudly declaring menial jobs were below him as the holder of an MA. Surely a degree like that would qualify someone for at least shift manager at McD’s?

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  73. dime (8,746 comments) says:

    Twitter is quite fun:

    Peter Dunne ‏@PeterDunneMP 5h
    He is even nuttier than squirrel’s poo!
    Coilin Craig has just told @marcuslush he is not sure that man has walked on the moon!

    Dime ‏@dimenz76 24s
    @PeterDunneMP stop trying to impress that poor girl you stalked by using her expression.

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  74. nickb (3,629 comments) says:

    HA dime…

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  75. RichardX (288 comments) says:

    Manolo (11,439 comments) says:
    December 4th, 2013 at 1:27 pm
    Here are the world’s 10 most corrupt nations, starting with the worst:
    Somalia
    North Korea (tied with Somalia and Afghanistan for No. 175)
    Afghanistan (tied with North Korea and Somalia for No. 175)
    Sudan
    South Sudan
    Libya
    Iraq
    Uzbekistan
    Turkmenistan (tied with Uzbekistan and Syria for No. 168)
    Syria (tied with Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan for No. 168)

    The common factor among most of these hellholes: the vile Islam, the religion of peace.

    Countries ending with stan also have a high prevalence….and that may be just as accurate an indicator as religion

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  76. graham (2,211 comments) says:

    Pete George has been busily spinning on his website that Dunne could well be back as minister, and claims that it was David Henry who started off the salacious rumours about something going on between Dunne and Vance.

    That’s news to me, and I have asked Pete if he could point to the page(s) in the report where Henry states or infers that there was something going on between Dunne and Vance. Because I honestly don’t recall seeing that. So far Pete hasn’t responded, but can anybody help? Did David Henry insinuate in his report that there was a relationship between Vance and Dunne?

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  77. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    ‘Coilin Craig has just told @marcuslush he is not sure that man has walked on the moon!’

    The Russians were in a cold war with the US at the time of the moon landing but they conceded the US had beat them to the moon.

    But Putin speaking out against the US elites like George Soros, Rothchilds and Rockefellers is awesome.

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  78. lilman (658 comments) says:

    I see some ex Pike River Miner was convicted on drugs charges and used the fact he wasnt on the coal face the day of the disaster as a defense for his actions.
    Pity the judge didn’t send him down the mine shaft for 6 months PD ,at least he wouldn’t be a drain on the taxpayer again.
    A real arse-

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  79. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    graham – you’re doing what you’ve complained about me doing – flitting between blogs!

    The only information available was via the Henry report so it must have come from that. There were a number of references to the number of emails and the amount of contact. And there was no attempt to establish whether that was out of the ordinary or not – I believe quite a few MPs and journalists communicate frequently in a number of ways.

    Can you suggest any other way the salacious narrative would have arisen if not from the information in the Henry report?

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  80. nickb (3,629 comments) says:

    Well done Ross Taylor!!

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  81. Colville (1,767 comments) says:

    nickb. What kind of sick muppet would down tick you for that comment?

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  82. Manolo (12,614 comments) says:

    Pete George has been busily spinning on his website that Dunne could well be back as minister,

    You could add: on instructions from his master and puppeteer.

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  83. Tauhei Notts (1,508 comments) says:

    I was surprised to see in the NZ Herald report of today’s big drug bust that amongst the various organisations that combined with the police in this raid, was the Inland Revenue Department. I had always thought that the tax records and information about law breakers and other illegal taxpayers, who divulged that information to the Tax Dept, was sacrosanct; kept entirely within the Inland Revenue Department.
    Has there recently been a change? Anybody know?

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  84. graham (2,211 comments) says:

    Pete, let’s be quite clear here. You have stated:

    And then Henry effectively accused him without evidence and also initiated salacious rumours that were false.

    That is a straight-out accusation. You have directly accused David Henry of deliberately starting the “salacious rumours”. I have reread the Henry report, and nowhere can I see anything like this being insinuated or referred to. You state that “There were a number of references to the number of emails and the amount of contact.” The reference that I notice is point 76:

    Mr Dunne has advised me that he has frequent contact with the reporter including communications by telephone, text, email and in person.

    So Peter Dunne himself is the one who referred to “frequent contact”! Nowhere do I see any inference or suggestion by David Henry that this is unusual. Nowhere do I see any inference or suggestion by David Henry that there is anything untoward going on between Dunne and Vance.

    David Henry did not start any rumours. You are drawing an extremely long bow there.

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  85. nickb (3,629 comments) says:

    Has there recently been a change? Anybody know?

    I believe there has Tauhei. Look up the secrecy provisions in the TAA. I heard something about this at the recent NZICA tax conference. Not good news for privacy I’m afraid.

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  86. nickb (3,629 comments) says:

    nickb. What kind of sick muppet would down tick you for that comment?

    Maybe Mike Hesson reads KB?

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  87. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    That is a straight-out accusation.
    No it’s not, unless you mean “Henry effectively accused him without evidence” which is an accusation.

    You have directly accused David Henry of deliberately starting the “salacious rumours”.
    No I haven’t. I don’t think he did it deliberately.

    David Henry’s report initiated the rumours.

    Have you read the Privileges Committee report? Are you aware the Henry inquiry has been “slammed”, “heavily censured”, that there were “significant failures and shortcomings”?

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  88. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    Big knock by Taylor….Interesting statistic in that he hasn’t hit a single six on his way to 200..

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  89. MH (558 comments) says:

    The Bradman hit very few in his whole career.

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  90. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    .BANKRUPT!! Detroit and America Prepare for Economic Collapse .

    In today’s video, Christopher Greene of AMTV reports on the Bankruptcy of Detroit and Economic Collapse of America.

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  91. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    MH- Bradman only hit six in his entire career! Remarkable (considering he hit 7000 test runs)…

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  92. Reid (15,505 comments) says:

    Can you suggest any other way the salacious narrative would have arisen if not from the information in the Henry report?

    It was a simple logical deduction based on the behaviour of Dunne and Vance at the time Pete for which the only possible explanation for anyone with half a brain who wasn’t infatuated with Dunne was that he was flirting with her and as you recall at the time there were plenty of fellow journalists who also drew that perfectly obvious conclusion probably based on insider colleague to colleague conversations that never made it into the public arena and if it wasn’t true then Vance would have acted to quash them and she didn’t. And as you recall Dunne immediately took off on a holiday with his wife to repair the relationship and why did he do that if he was perfectly innocent?

    The ONLY person who pretends Dunne isn’t a philanderer who lied about it by inventing a disingenuous fatuous reason for his refusal to release perfectly acceptable material to a confidential enquiry, is you. You’re the only one. Either you’re a complete idiot or you’re infatuated with him you can’t see the truth when it hits you in flaming letters a million feet high, which is the disease that some of Winston’s supporters also have.

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  93. Manolo (12,614 comments) says:

    Well said. The whole paragraph deserves bold characters!

    The ONLY person who pretends Dunne isn’t a philanderer who lied about it by inventing a disingenuous fatuous reason for his refusal to release perfectly acceptable material to a confidential enquiry, is you. You’re the only one. Either you’re a complete idiot or you’re infatuated with him you can’t see the truth when it hits you in flaming letters a million feet high…

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  94. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    Someone ought to tell these idiots that two adult men hanging out with a thirteen year old girl (who is quite clearly not a relative) is quite likely to arouse suspicion anywhere in the world-

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2517281/Houston-police-white-girl-Landry-Thompson-African-American-legal-guardians.html

    *Although I do wonder if this is some kind of ‘set the cops up for a fall’ publicity stunt..

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  95. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    There’s no facts that back up your accusations Reid. Dunne, Dunne’s wife and Vance dispute your Winstonian theory that ignores a number of known facts and makes things up to suit your extravagant assumptions.

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  96. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    Lance McC
    WINZ go on about being there for those that need help. But they do not care even the smallest amount about those that need their help.
    “Waikato woman walks 25km to make WINZ meeting” Her case manager was not interested in finding a solution, they did not care. In fact they were most likely hoping she did not get there so they could strike her off her benefit and claim another ‘success’. This is also why WINZ figures on how many are not on a benefit are a lie, the reason so many are off benefits has nothing to do with getting jobs, it is because these people have not made it ti appointments or other draconian meetings or requests. Beneficiaries are just slaves to be beaten, abused and considered criminals (when never having done anything wrong) by WINZ. The crazy thing is that people in nice comfortable lives crying over not being able to buy a second house or third car, support this behavior by WINZ and think it is ok to treat people this way.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/9472510/Trek-to-stop-benefit-cut-off?cid=edm:stuff:dailyheadlines

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  97. Tauhei Notts (1,508 comments) says:

    NickB at 3.28.
    Thank you for your comment.

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  98. nickb (3,629 comments) says:

    I had always thought that the tax records and information about law breakers and other illegal taxpayers, who divulged that information to the Tax Dept, was sacrosanct; kept entirely within the Inland Revenue Department.

    What I find interesting about this (without having read the article) is that criminals are subject to the same tax laws as the rest of us and must pay income tax and GST on their profits. IRD have a separate unit for gangs, criminals etc.

    Yet if the laws have been changed so IRD can release to the police evidence of crime (if that is what happened in the current case) what criminal on earth is going to declare their income!?

    Seems pretty self-defeating really. Not that there is any particular morality in the State benefiting from the proceeds of crime.

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  99. Tauhei Notts (1,508 comments) says:

    Wikiriwhis Business
    That silly bint from Putaruru was too mad to check that there are daily bus services between Putaruru and Tokoroa.
    Many many years ago I delivered copies of the Waikato Times around such areas as Waotu, Hodderville, Horahora, Puketurua etc. Nowadays their circulation in those areas is abysmal; it is as good as their journalists’ knowledge of bus services in Putaruru.
    For the Herald; if it happened south of Bombay it did not happen.
    For the Waikato Times; if it happened east of Hillcrest it did not happen.

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  100. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    And Reid’s salacious version of what happened is based on what graham (having re-read the report) refers to as “Nowhere do I see any inference or suggestion by David Henry that there is anything untoward going on between Dunne and Vance”.

    So Reid’s “ONLY person” claim is wrong, graham doesn’t seem to see what Reid claims can be deduced from the Henry report.

    I’ve heard Dunne’s version in person, with his wife present and in agreement, so I’ll take their word over a few numpties on a blog who rant and rave about various MPs independent of any facts. Unless Dunne or Vance completely retract their strenuous denials I’ll accept their versions.

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  101. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    Tauhei Notts

    Actually, I cannot believe she didn’t move to Tokoroa years ago.

    Anyone should know small towns are being abandoned.

    she should have set up her kids and settled them in larger area before they started school.

    But I did post my firends thoughts because she’s not the only one affected like this as being persecuted for being unemployed. WINZ treats you like a criminal from day one as if you are a long time problem and that’s a pure lie.

    btw, not that I need to defend myself but I am not a beneficiary

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  102. Reid (15,505 comments) says:

    So Reid’s “ONLY person” claim is wrong, graham doesn’t seem to see what Reid claims can be deduced from the Henry report.

    Pete you galloping mental you, what I said was that Dunne being a lying disingenuous philanderer is the only logical conclusion anyone who isn’t infatuated with Dunne can possibly draw FROM THE BEHAVIOUR OF THE PARTIES INVOLVED AT THE TIME. In other words, I didn’t even mention the report.

    So don’t lie, please. After all, lying isn’t very fair, sensible or reasonable, is it.

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  103. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    New law for credit unions, finance companies

    Parliament has passed a law described as a “complete waste of time” which introduces a licencing regime for non-bank deposit takers (NBDTs).

    The Non-bank Deposit Takers Act 2013, which is expected to come into force in May 2014, covers finance companies, building societies, and credit unions.

    It gives the Reserve Bank new powers to intervene if a NBDT gets into trouble, and retains existing risk management and governance requirements.

    During the third and final reading of the bill, Labour MP David Clark described it as “a complete waste of time”.

    “The Government ought to be focused on rebalancing the economy, not on passing bills that simply shift legislation from one part of the book to another,” he said.

    Henry Lynch, chief executive of the New Zealand Association of Credit Unions, was also unconvinced of the law’s usefulness.

    “It’s not a big deal because a lot of these things we do already,” he said.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/9476168/New-law-for-credit-unions-finance-companies

    The Reserve Bank now has legal right to empty out any bank or trust account in NZ.

    No wonder people have overseas trust accounts. Who can blame them.

    Whale Oil targeted Nicky Hagar for having an overseas trust account. So what. I don’t blame him.

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  104. goldnkiwi (649 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis business (2,482 comments) says:

    December 4th, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    I wonder how she does the groceries then? Perhaps she could work in with the neighbour as they seem similarly affected re reporting and on benefits.

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  105. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    ‘I wonder how she does the groceries then?’

    Putaruru and tirau still have supermarkets as they are main thoroughfares.

    The govt is set to divert roading away from them as they have done in other area’s.

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  106. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    Reid – the only information available about THE BEHAVIOUR OF THE PARTIES INVOLVED AT THE TIME is in the report. Did you base what you claimed on information from the report, or is based on no facts at all?

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  107. Elaycee (4,058 comments) says:

    Memo to all 330 members of the Police / OFCANZ / Customs involved in Operation Ghost:

    To each and every one of you: Thank you.

    Keep up the great work.

    LAC

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11166891

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  108. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    The Electoral Commission says it has referred David Cunliffe’s tweeting to Police.

    The Police don’t usually put much priority in electoral cases. I wonder if McCready would take it on.

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  109. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    ‘Operation Ghost:’

    Surely NZ is far too small for an operation this big.

    No mention of gangs. I’m surprised. Many have dropped old enmities and banded together to do business.

    Wonder how this will affect their strategies.

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  110. goldnkiwi (649 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis business (2,485 comments) says:

    December 4th, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    I wonder if she has the use of a car for groceries was the point or if someone takes her, or does she get them delivered, get a taxi home with them.

    The only part I empathise with is there not being a day when WINZ goes to them. There is no WINZ Office where I live but they do come and meet people for appointments once a week. Otherwise people have to travel.

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  111. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    Bumper November for NZX

    The New Zealand stock exchange had a jump in the volume and value of trades last month compared with November last year.

    Forsyth Barr broker David Price said 2013 had probably been the best year for equity raising for about 25 years.

    NZX monthly metrics showed total trades in the cash market were up 74.5 per cent to 141,143 last month compared with November last year.

    The total value traded last month was $5.4 billion, up 76.9 per cent compared with the previous period.

    Price said the increase in activity was a combination of more equity raisings or initial public offers (IPOs) and more placements, or 2POs.

    “I’m actually trying to cast my mind back to a time when we actually had more in the way of raisings,” he said.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9475052/Bumper-November-for-NZX

    Would this be a direct result of the US Fed stimulus programme ?

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  112. Reid (15,505 comments) says:

    Did you base what you claimed on information from the report, or is based on no facts at all?

    I based it on the same logic people who think men actually did land on the moon base their conclusion on Pete.

    I didn’t need a report from NASA to draw that conclusion and I don’t need a report from Henry to draw that conclusion either.

    So if you like you can decry I am drawing a conclusion based on no facts at all, but then you’d have to argue that you think that men didn’t land on the moon because I’m using the same logic in both cases.

    So are you willing to argue that, or not?

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  113. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    There’s nothing to argue there Reid, you’re as nutty as Colin Craig.

    I base my moon opinion on evidence including photos, audio, video and reports from many people, including John Key he says he believes Buzz Aldrin when he says he’s been there. I can search and find a huge amount of corroborating information and I’ve seen skeptics who have been debunked.

    I base my Dunne opinion on evidence including first hand accounts and media claims by those involved, with no evidence to the contrary.

    And you appear to have made up your story based on no facts.

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  114. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    wheres the nutty Public Watchgoat..haven’t heard her blown her trumpet yet about Banksy..cant wait

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  115. Reid (15,505 comments) says:

    I base my Dunne opinion on evidence including first hand accounts and media claims by those involved, with no evidence to the contrary.

    So do I Pete. We’re using the same material. It’s just when someone you’re infatuated with gets hoisted by their own petard, it’s hard to be objective about it, because we always look at the best in people we love, we never look at the worst, do we. Even when the facts indicate they’re guilty, we prefer not to believe it, don’t we.

    That’s what’s happened here Pete. I’m sick of explaining it to someone who refuses to listen to reason so this is my last comment on the matter, suffice to say no-one in their right mind would have done what Dunne did if there really were nothing to see in those emails and that’s a fact, no matter how much you in your infatuation chose either consciously or subconsciously to ignore it. Further, observe that you and your hero are the only ones on your particular planet on this issue, and that should say a lot about the stability or otherwise of your conclusion.

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  116. publicwatchdog (1,804 comments) says:

    Here you go Kiwiblog goldfish!

    Have a wee nibble on this :)

    “How can NZ really be ‘the least corrupt country in the world’ – when we STILL haven’t ratified the UN Convention Against Corruption?”

    The 2013 Transparency International ‘Corruption Perception Index’, has New Zealand and Denmark tied as 1st-equal, as the countries ‘perceived’ to be the least corrupt in the world.

    http://www.transparency.org/news/pressrelease/corruption_perceptions_index_corruption_around_the_world_in_2013

    Pity about the CORRUPTION REALITY?

    If New Zealand was truly the ‘least corrupt country in the world’ – wouldn’t you think we would at least have ratified the UN Convention Against Corruption?

    http://www.unodc.org/documents/treaties/UNCAC/Publications/Convention/08-50026_E.pdf

    New Zealand can’t ratify the UN Convention Against Corruption – because our anti-corruption domestic legislative framework is STILL not yet in place.

    http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/treaties/CAC/signatories.html

    http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/nz-tops-global-ranking-transparency-again

    (Germany hasn’t yet ratified the UN Convention Against Corruption, and that’s where Transparency International is based!)

    In my considered opinion, Transparency International’s ‘Corruption Perception Index’ is not worth the paper upon which it is written.

    For a genuine New Zealand anti-corruption / pro-transparency framework – try this:

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/ANTI-CORRUPTION-WHITE-COLLAR-CRIME-CORPORATE-WELFARE-ACTION-PLAN-Ak-Mayoral-campaign-19-July-2013-2.pdf

    Please be reminded that in the recent 2013 Auckland Mayoral election, I polled 4th, with 11,723 votes, campaigning to ‘stop corrupt corporate control’ of the Auckland region, which is run ‘like a business, by business, for business’, through corporate-controlled ‘Council Controlled Organisations’ (CCOs).

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz

    These corporate-controlled ‘Council Controlled Organisations’, are heavily influenced, in my considered opinion, by the unelected, ‘invitation-only,’ $10,000 per year, private-sector lobby group, the Committee for Auckland, of which Auckland Council CEO Doug McKay, is a member.

    http://www.committeeforauckland.co.nz membership

    I look forward to debating this on mainstream media, against anyone who has the courage to front on these issues, and who wants to help perpetrate this on-going myth and fraud that New Zealand warrants this above-mentioned ‘perceived’ status, of being the ‘least corrupt country in the world.’

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11166639

    FACTS which I have researched, in my considered opinion, disprove this ‘mantra,’ and I am very happy to share and discuss them.

    Penny Bright

    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

    Attendee: 2009 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference Brisbane
    Attendee: 2010 Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference Bangkok
    Attendee: 2013 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference Sydney

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  117. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    ‘“How can NZ really be ‘the least corrupt country in the world’ – when we STILL haven’t ratified the UN Convention Against Corruption?”

    This is someone who posts evidence with her assertations. I recognise her evidence before your denials of her evidence.

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  118. Ross12 (926 comments) says:

    On one news item I hear Cunliffe reported as saying John Banks is a disgrace and he should leave Parliament immediately.
    Then 30 minutes later I hear that the police are going to investigate Cunliffe breaking the law with his tweet.
    How the hell can this idiot be a PM ???

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  119. OneTrack (1,953 comments) says:

    “To be clear, I think Colin Craig is very wrong on a great number of things, especially policy questions. I just think interview time with him could be better spent than with sniggering high-fives when he’s not looking.”

    This IS the New Zealand LSM you are talking about. I doubt it gets any better than this.

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  120. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    “How can NZ really be ‘the least corrupt country in the world’ – when we STILL haven’t ratified the UN Convention Against Corruption?”

    So one of the most corrupt organisations on earth get to decide who is corrupt and who is not ? :-|

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  121. graham (2,211 comments) says:

    Pete, re your 3:43 pm, where you deny having made an accusation against David Henry –

    What you said on your website was:

    And then Henry effectively accused him without evidence and also initiated salacious rumours that were false.

    I’m sorry, I cannot see how anyone can say that this is not an accusation. I’m honestly stunned that you have the bare-faced audacity to make such a bald statement.

    “And then Henry … initiated salacious rumours that were false.”

    “No it’s not” (an accusation).

    You’re either being deliberately misleading, or you don’t have a grasp of basic English. The following statement:

    And then Henry effectively accused him without evidence and also initiated salacious rumours that were false.

    is an accusation. I suspect you now wish you hadn’t said that, but there is simply no way you can try and claim you have not accused David Henry of starting these rumours. You have stated in black and white that he initiated these rumours. I really am quite shocked that you’re now trying to deny it.

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  122. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    I don’t regret anything graham. Reid is proof of what has eventuated from the Henry report. People like him make stuff up based on very little. From memory he is a twin towers conspiracy believer.

    I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make graham – do you believe the salacious rumours? Or do you think that Henry didn’t provide anything that would lead anyone to believe anything like that?

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  123. hj (5,674 comments) says:

    Diversity Divident Alert.
    The 24 individuals arrested this morning are all New Zealand citizens or permanent residents. The average age of those arrested was 40-years-old.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11166891

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  124. chiz (1,090 comments) says:

    nickb:Yet if the laws have been changed so IRD can release to the police evidence of crime (if that is what happened in the current case) what criminal on earth is going to declare their income!?

    Maybe the people involved tried to pass off their income as legitimate?

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  125. nasska (9,475 comments) says:

    A Muslim girl sobs to her teenage heartthrob, “My father says he’ll make sure that I’ll never see you again.”

    “How, what’s he gonna do?”, the boyfriend asks.

    “He’s covering the eye holes in my burqa.”

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  126. nickb (3,629 comments) says:

    This is someone who posts evidence with her assertations. I recognise her evidence before your denials of her evidence.

    Moonbat status: confirmed.

    Get a room people

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  127. nasska (9,475 comments) says:

    nickb

    But what of the possible consequences of your suggestion? The union could be fruitful & you wouldn’t want the issue of such a coupling visited on the world…..

    ….surely! :)

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  128. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    nasska,

    FFS..

    What are you posting this crap on Kiwiblog GD for?

    Its all over the fucking net if you want to read jokes.

    You sad loser.

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  129. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    I know you’re funny Narsekissa, the presumptuous and dripping with arrogance smiley face at the end of every comment leaves no doubt.

    ;)

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  130. nasska (9,475 comments) says:

    Thanks Kea. I’ve been missing the abuse. :)

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  131. nickb (3,629 comments) says:

    And then Henry effectively accused him without evidence and also initiated salacious rumours that were false.

    Would also be interested in seeing an explanation for this. Won’t hold my breath though.

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  132. Judith (5,659 comments) says:

    Damn, I thought for a minute Red was back. I was just reaching for my B & D outfit, when I saw it was posted by Kea. Such disappointment. :-(

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  133. goldnkiwi (649 comments) says:

    chiz (1,032 comments) says:

    December 4th, 2013 at 7:53 pm

    Anecdotally I believe that the IRD is more feared than the police in some instances as their powers have at least in the past had longer reach.

    I believe that there are/or were drug dealers and I can think of an illegal whisky/spirit maker who supposedly declared income to the ird. I am not sure how that affects the Proceeds of Crime Act or whether with law changes that that would still be the case.

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  134. graham (2,211 comments) says:

    What point am I trying to make, Pete? I believe it’s fairly obvious from the original post I wrote at 2:30.

    You have accused David Henry of starting the “salacious rumours” about something going on between Dunne and Vance. I believe that you are being dishonest. Throughout the entire affair you have eagerly leapt to Dunne’s defence (which is fine) and, in so doing, have been more than willing to level accusations against a host of other people (which is not fine).

    My point is that I do not consider it acceptable for you to level accusations which are, in this case, demonstrably false.

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  135. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    Well, we disagree. And I point out that many of my criticisms of the Henry inquiry months ago have been repeated by the Privileges Committee – it was a poor inquiry has been found to have overstepped boundaries to a worrying degree. And it failed to come up with any evidence, and it effectively accused a Minister with no evidence with significant repercussions for both the (now) MP) and for the journalist.

    But you have always chosen to ignore the bigger issues and focus on minor aspects that you exaggerate out of all proportion.

    It’s notable that you are now fixated on an accusation you claim I’ve made that is totally inconsequential, yet again ignore a far more serious accusation made by Henry that had no factual basis and had major consequences.

    If some people had had their way an unsubstantiated accusation could have brought down the Government.

    And you keep ignoring all that and choose to nit pick on semantics. I still fail to see what point you are trying to make. That people disagree on a blog? You’ve never revealed what your motives are for obsessively targeting me and ignoring far more significant and worse things going on.

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  136. Manolo (12,614 comments) says:

    Exposing Griff’s lies:
    Global warming hysterics at the BBC warned us in 2007 that by summer 2013, the Arctic would be ice-free. As with so many other doomsday predictions by warmists, the results turn out to be quite the opposite.

    A chilly Arctic summer has left 533,000 more square miles of ocean covered with ice than at the same time last year – an increase of 29 per cent.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/And-global-COOLING-Return-Arctic-ice-cap-grows-29-year.html#ixzz2mKA1Yk91

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  137. Manolo (12,614 comments) says:

    What angle will the sycophant take tomorrow (Thursday) in GD’s debate to continue defending his master, the infatuated, leak-like-a-sieve MP?

    A new day, a new excuse to continue fellating Dunne.

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  138. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    You’re a sad bugger if those are your first thoughts of the day are Manolo, mired in yesterday. You’ve become Kiwiblog’s bitch queen, a manky moaner. You don’t seem to have much to look forward to.

    There’s interesting things brewing, but not Cameron Brewer who has said he won’t jump waka and try to rescue Act.

    A better option is being pursued, to bring back Rodney, if anyone can hold Epsom and save Act them it’s probably him. It would be extraordinarily difficult for a political novice to lead a party and win an electorate. John Banks found it very difficult to set up in Parliament and get up to speed after a decade’s absence.

    Hide backed up by Boscawen doing the hard work in the background would make a strong team.

    And there’s signs that Matthew Hooton may be going to start a new right wing party. I wonder who he’s lobbying for there.

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  139. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Exposing Griff’s lies:
    Global warming hysterics at the BBC warned us in 2007 that by summer 2013, the Arctic would be ice-free. As with so many other doomsday predictions by warmists, the results turn out to be quite the opposite.

    A chilly Arctic summer has left 533,000 more square miles of ocean covered with ice than at the same time last year – an increase of 29 per cent.

    Manolo, Griff has been awfully quiet since that leaked IPCC report. I predicted he would disappear when the hoax was more widely exposed.

    Here is another prediction: The Northern Hemisphere has been hit by a series of extremely harsh winters of a severity not seen for many years. I bet you a bag of gold to a knob of goat shit that this year will be as cold or worse. ;)

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  140. graham (2,211 comments) says:

    Pete George at 9:52 pm -

    So you apparently are sticking by the line that stating:

    And then Henry … initiated salacious rumours that were false.

    is not an accusation, and even if it were is “totally inconsequential.” So accusing people of doing something without any evidence is “totally inconsequential”? Really? That’s not the impression I had from all your railing against David Henry for having done, in your opinion, exactly the same thing to Peter Dunne.

    I don’t know how else I can get my point across to you, Pete. I’ve tried writing in English, a language that I assumed you understood. Never mind. I rather think everybody else here understands the point quite well indeed.

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  141. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    You could get your point across if you were open and honest.

    The main point is, you’re not being open about your targeting motives. You go from blog to blog insisting I answer your questions, you keep trying to reframe what I say, but you keep avoiding fronting up when you’re asked anything. That shows a lack of honesty. But some things are obvious.

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  142. graham (2,211 comments) says:

    Pete:

    I have been open and honest. I stated right at the beginning my “motive” if you wish; quite simply that during a discussion on your website you claimed that it was David Henry who started off the salacious rumours about something going on between Dunne and Vance. I questioned this, and you have tried to muddy the waters, turn things around, and pretend that you didn’t say what you said and even if you had said it it was inconsequential.

    I’m not insisting you answer my questions. I asked an honest question on your blog, you didn’t answer it, so I came to Kiwiblog to see if anybody here could answer the question. Because I think it’s quite important when someone raises a point and makes quite a serious accusation like you have done to get the facts right. If you choose not to answer a question that’s fine, but I fail to see why you’re getting all pissy simply because I come to another blog to see if somebody else can answer the question.

    I have not reframed what you said. I have quoted it word for word. If you like I’ll even link back to your blog so people can see for themselves.

    http://yournz.org/2013/12/03/dunne-back-as-minister/

    you keep avoiding fronting up when you’re asked anything

    So now you’re the one insisting I answer your questions?

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  143. Pete George (21,796 comments) says:

    Because I think it’s quite important when someone raises a point and makes quite a serious accusation like you have done to get the facts right.

    Will you join the many critics of David Henry, who made a serious accusation without getting the facts right?

    Do you agree with the Privileges Committee criticisms of the Henry inquiry?

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