General Debate 7 December 2013

December 7th, 2013 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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174 Responses to “General Debate 7 December 2013”

  1. kowtow (6,701 comments) says:

    And in other news from Africa,the all American President’s uncle ,Onyango,is facing deportation to……..Kenya.

    If your family comes from Kenya,does that make you Kenyan?

    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/united-states/131205/say-uncle-obama-changes-story-kenyan-uncle-facin#1

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  2. Graeme2 (102 comments) says:

    This looks interesting http://www.nzcpr.com/5-principles-movement/
    I especially like this idea:

    “Elected representatives should be servants of the people: – reducing the number of MPs from 120 to 99 (Maori seats abolished). – reducing an MPs salary to the average wage.

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  3. Chuck Bird (4,406 comments) says:

    I posted yesterday about my after my Case Management conference that finished just before 1:30. I can say without talking about the details of the case I am glad I did not waste good money on a lawyer. The other party who used to be a lawyer and IMHO is suffering from early stages of dementia so has paid a lawyer.

    The case was meant to be a 11:00 am but did not occur till about 1 pm. I was quite enjoying myself during the wait. I had the PhD candidate next to me me and after we finished talking about my case we were having interesting political discussions. I looked at the other party sitting glumly looking at his watch will his bill would have been going up at $400/hr.

    After his expense things went mostly my way as they should because I am telling the truth. The next Case Management conference is 4 Feb 2014. i am a lot more confident than I was this morning.

    I would like to thank kowtow and others who wished me well in my dealing with this crooked lawyer with obvious mental health problems.

    I note I got 3 thumbs down. I would like to think they were from those who did not like for my views on other issues and not from lawyers.

    FES – do you still think I should throw tens of thousands of dollars to some lawyer to defend myself against vexatious litigant who has employed a lawyer with less ethics than a used car salesman?

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  4. flipper (3,269 comments) says:

    A lawyer who has himself as client, has a fool as a client.

    May I presume to reply on behalf of FES?

    A dodo who has a bird for a client…. :-)

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  5. Colville (1,774 comments) says:

    Good luck to anyone competing in the Goat race this morning up on Rupert.
    Cold and cloudy but not much wind.
    21 kms around a mountain. What could go wrong?
    http://www.thegoat.co.nz/

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  6. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    If your family comes from Kenya,does that make you Kenyan?

    My father in law lives in Croatia does that make me Croatian?

    Kowtow, why do you waste your bandwidth?

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  7. hj (5,692 comments) says:

    Graeme2 (96 comments) says:
    …..
    I think the key is better presentation of debate.
    A formal decision making flow chart (expressing objections , assumptions, analysing ideological beliefs, world views, interested parties etc.

    http://www.jostwald.com/ArgumentMapping/ARGUMENT%20MAPPING.pdf
    we think because we are bombarded with argument that we are well informed whereas the opposite is true (I think).
    You don’t need those dickheads in parliament with their rhetorical bs

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  8. Chuck Bird (4,406 comments) says:

    People who depend on a cliché especially one the well known show how weak their argument are. Are you presuming FES is dumb enough to use such old cliché?

    By the way what do you thinks the chances are of your mate David Bain getting a cent of taxpayers money. Good job Judith Collins.

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  9. Pete George (21,806 comments) says:

    There’s been a number of people saying that Key shouldn’t attend Mandela’s funeral because he can’t say if he was for or against the Springbok tour. That’s absurd.

    Duncan Garner asked Key if he would consider taking John Minto and Trevor Richards and Key said he would consider it. Good on him for that, I think it would be appropriate.

    In the meantime Martyn Bradbury fails Mandela 101 in John Key shouldn’t be going to Nelson Mandela’s funeral

    It is to our shame that a Prime Minister who can’t can’t even remember what side of the debate he was on during the Springbok Tour will represent us at Nelson Mandela’s funeral…

    The people who should be going to Nelson’s funeral are the John Mintos, the Donna Awatere Huatas, the Trevor Richards, the Annette Sykes, the Hone Harawiras, the Andrew Beyers, the Syd Jacksons. Those who stood on the front lines of the Police baton charges, those who rallied this Nation to respond to the National Party’s racist Springbok Tour and those that challenged red neck National Party voters.

    Those are the heroes who deserve to weep at Nelson’s funerals, not the Political Party that did more in NZ than any other to support the very apartheid horror that Nelson spent his life fighting.

    Let us allow Nelson to rest in peace, let’s never allow his detractors and haters to rest ever.

    Ironic from one of new Zealand’s practicing political detractors and haters. And very un-Mandelian.

    Reconciliation is one of Mandela’s often praised attributes. Another irony, one that Martyn fails to recognise.

    If you want to make peace with your enemy, you have to work with your enemy. Then he becomes your partner.

    We must therefore act together as a united people, for national reconciliation, for nation building, for the birth of a new world.
    Let there be justice for all.
    Let there be peace for all.

    A beautiful and important film about South Africa’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission. It will engage and influence not only South Africans, but people all over the world concerned with the great questions of human reconciliation, forgiveness, and tolerance.

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  10. hj (5,692 comments) says:

    Note the policeman who was involved in the black widow investigation thought she over acted.. like Lundy.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9488477/Woman-nicknamed-black-widow-after-poison-questions

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  11. kowtow (6,701 comments) says:

    pauleastbay

    What I do with my bandwith is my business.

    Obongo’s family is Kenyan,so is he.

    A father in law is not a blood relative…….take your own advice and don’t waste waste your key strokes defending the unAmerican President of America.

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  12. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    Kowtow

    Even for you thats a sad post ,the unAmerican President of America.

    You and Colin Craig

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  13. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    katy, it depends on how you look at it. Obama is also a white American.

    His black Muslim ancestors traded slaves for centuries. Much much later they sold a few to America, but not many by comparison. The white people went a bit funny and came up with the novel idea that slavery was “wrong”. This was contrary to African beliefs and remains so today. They also traded white slaves. They would raid coastal towns and clean them out. At one point they flooded the market and it was said you could buy a christian for an onion.

    The Untold Story of White Slavery

    Whites have forgotten what blacks take pains to remember.

    http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Others-Doc-Race&Groups-General/+Doc-Race&Groups-General-WhiteSlavery/UntoldStoryOfWhiteSlavery.htm

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  14. kowtow (6,701 comments) says:

    pestbay

    What’s Colin Craig got to do with it?

    Are you a Campbellista ? Beating the same drum.

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  15. Longknives (4,048 comments) says:

    For what it’s worth I too find it awfully suspicious that Obama later ‘changed his mind’ on where he was born after claiming to have been born in Kenya in the Harvard Law Review…

    Very,very odd.
    (At the very least it raises serious concerns about his honesty and credibility)

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  16. flipper (3,269 comments) says:

    Pete George (20,057 comments) says:

    December 7th, 2013 at 8:38 am

    There’s been a number of people saying that Key shouldn’t attend Mandela’s funeral because he can’t say if he was for or against the Springbok tour. That’s absurd.

    *************

    It is absurd. But equally absurd is the suggestion that Minto and Richards should accompany the Prime Minister.

    Mandela’s was a just cause.

    Minto and Richards sought to suppress the legal rights of all New Zealander’s in favour of their own..

    What those two pricks did that is in the public domain is just the tip of a very nasty iceberg. Had Muldoon and the Police shown a similar disregard for the rights of New Zealanders, neither Minto or Richards would be around today.

    It is time for the left wing and goodietwoshoe skullnuts to let it go…. to follow the example set by Mandela. May he rest in peace, a great job, well done.

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  17. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    The situation is so appalling in South Africa that even Minto has wiped his hands of the hell hole Mandela helped to create.

    John Minto is to be congratulated for his continued fight against the ongoing injustice occurring in South Africa. He is now refusing to accept the South African Government’s highest honour for foreigners because he is ‘deeply dismayed’ with that government and the social and economic conditions of South Africa.

    http://liberation.typepad.com/liberation/2008/01/john-minto-cont.html

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  18. hj (5,692 comments) says:

    @ Kea
    “Sufferings in Africa is a 1817 memoir by James Riley. The memoir relates how Riley and his crew were captured in Africa after being shipwrecked in 1815. Riley was the Captain of the American merchant ship Commerce. He led his crew through the Sahara Desert after they were shipwrecked off the coast of Western Sahara in August 1815. The book was published in 1817 and was originally titled Authentic Narrative of the Loss of the American Brig Commerce by the “Late Master and Supercargo” James Riley, modernly republished as Sufferings in Africa, and comes down to us today as a startling switch on the usual master-slave relationship.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufferings_in_Africa

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  19. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Real “Rape Culture”

    South Africans have been outraged by a question in the national school-leavers’ drama exam which asked students to direct a rape scene.

    They were asked to describe how they would get an actor to maximise the horror of the rape of a baby, using a broomstick and loaf of bread as props.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-25120108

    South Africa is often called the “rape capital of the world,” and it is estimated that more than 70 percent of women have experienced sexual abuse. On Tuesday, five men attacked and gang-raped a young woman in the capital, Pretoria. In the shadow of a similar attack in India that mobilized millions to protest, activists in Johannesburg say they do not understand why more South Africans are not outraged.

    http://www.voanews.com/content/south-africa-leads-world-in-rape-cases/1580500.html

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  20. eszett (2,268 comments) says:

    For what it’s worth I too find it awfully suspicious that Obama later ‘changed his mind’ on where he was born after claiming to have been born in Kenya in the Harvard Law Review…

    Very,very odd.
    (At the very least it raises serious concerns about his honesty and credibility)

    I would say at the very least it raises serious concerns about your googling abilities and possibly your state of mind.

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/booklet.asp

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  21. eszett (2,268 comments) says:

    If your family comes from Kenya,does that make you Kenyan?

    If your mother comes from America, does that make you an American?

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  22. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    @Chuck. “That” PhD candidate, eh. No wonder you keep going to court… Good luck next year. (FES is just giving you standard legal advice, he can’t be seen to say you’d be wasting your money because it’s the process that’s the important thing.)

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  23. Don the Kiwi (1,318 comments) says:

    I think beating the drum about whether or not O’Bumbler was eligible to be elected Pres. of the USA is at best, questionable. I have asked a friend of mine in the USA about this a couple of years ago. One does not have to be born on American soil to be an American citizen, like John McCain, but one does have to have one parent a natural born citizen – O’bummer’s mother was unquestionably american.

    I think the bigger issue is how Bomumbler got his education – it appears that he was eligible for Harvard – or whatever university – as an overseas student. If he was an foreign student, he was not an american citizen.

    There are a lot of very dodgy things about this man which have been covered up for years by the commie Dems. It’ll all come out in about 20 years.

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  24. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Nearly 60 children are raped every day in South Africa and while experts agree to disagree as to the causes, or whether the pervasive belief in the so-called “Virgin Cure” prevents/cures HIV/Aids is possibly responsible for this deeply disturbing phenomenon, university researcher, Mike Earl-Taylor suggests it could well be a contributing factor, and a major one at that. Moreover, infant rape appears to be unique to South Africa,

    http://scienceinafrica.com/old/index.php?q=2002/april/virgin.htm

    As the country decays into ruin we should all remember what is truly important; That white people in other countries feel smug !

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  25. Keeping Stock (9,788 comments) says:

    Excellent piece from John Roughan in the Herald today on what could become a very significant weekend for Tim Groser and for New Zealand:

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2013/12/roughan-on-groser-and-tpp.html

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  26. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    If Obama was born in Hawaii he is American. If his father was born in Kenya perhaps he could have been registered at birth as a Kenyan too if the Americans allowed dual nationality at that time. I doubt his white American mother did so and I believe she gave birth to him in Hawaii.

    But what difference does it make? Had John Key been born in the UK and arrived here as a baby, who would care?

    Yes, a technicality smacking of desperation.

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  27. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    @Kea. You just don’t get it, bird brain. The flock says “This way.” ;) :) :)

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  28. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    The important thing is Obama was elected into office. That was the will of the people, regardless of where the guy was born. It is unthinkable to remove an elected leader over a technicality. They wanted him and they got him.

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  29. Twinkletoes (49 comments) says:

    I was under the impression that only NZ born citizens could be made Prime Minister which was why Cullen remained deputy. If John Key and been born in Britain, like Cullen, would he not also be ineligible?

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  30. Chuck Bird (4,406 comments) says:

    @eszett

    “I too find it awfully suspicious that Obama later ‘changed his mind’ on where he was born after claiming to have been born in Kenya in the Harvard Law Review…”

    Have you got a source for that?

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  31. Chuck Bird (4,406 comments) says:

    “I was under the impression that only NZ born citizens could be made Prime Minister”

    You do not even have to be from the same planet to be PM. That is why the Green influence is so scary.

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  32. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    Wherever Obama was born became totally unimportant after he was elected to a second term. The American people were collectively too thick to see past the smarm & reverse racism & so deserve what they have chosen.

    What is still interesting is how he will be seen by future generations. Much in the manner that Churchill is personified as the victor in the war against Germany & Mandela will be associated with the temporary respite he gave South Africa my guess is that Obama will be remembered as the president who destroyed the USA & sent it down the financial toilet.

    What a legacy.

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  33. Reid (15,531 comments) says:

    Excellent piece from John Roughan in the Herald today on what could become a very significant weekend for Tim Groser and for New Zealand

    The omens are good for a deal that will strike a good balance between US business interests and the rights of global consumers. The US should get the copyright protection it seeks for movies and music. It should not get restrictions on parallel importing. Exclusive distribution channels and exploitative country pricing are not free trade.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11168376

    I predict what will happen is the text of the agreement will be just enough to make it acceptable to the participating nations, but the litigation clauses that will be in it will be used over time to widen the rights of the corporations who have driven this from the US end at the expense of the sovereignty of the participating nations.

    This litigation mechanism is what allowed drug companies to patent the human genome, taking a 1970′s US Supreme Court decision on the patentable rights for a single-celled lab-developed oil eating bacteria and widening it into what we see today with patents on all sorts of diseases with genetic implications which are collectively worth trillions. And all because the legal principle that you cannot patent a living organism was overridden by those SC Justices who didn’t intend to do that but they did it because they didn’t understand biology.

    And we see an example of corporations vs sovereign nations with Phillip Morris suing the Australian govt over plain packaging under another treaty.

    That’s what’s going to happen here, guarantee it.

    And why pray tell do we want to trade away our national sovereignty for the sake of a treaty with a dying economy that by 2050 will be ranked well below China, Japan, Russia and the EU?

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  34. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    Chuck @ 8.35
    What are the chances of the leader of your cult KP having a cent left once the judge publishes the decision of the defamation trial?
    Whether or not DB receives compensation is irrelevant it doesn’t change the facts of what happened.
    I see pretty much all Kents followers promptly abandoned ship once the case got to court like the gutless wonders you all are!

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  35. peterwn (2,935 comments) says:

    Twinkletoes – One has to be a NZ citizen to stand for Parliament – so it follows that the PM must be a NZ citizen. There are three ways of being a nZ citizem:
    1. Born in NZ (there are a few odd exceptions).
    2. By descent – ie parent born in NZ (there are some other requirements).
    3. Grant of citizenship – following at least 5 years after being granted residency.

    Compare this with a USA Presidential candidate must be born in USA. Regardless of what conspiracy theorists think, Hawaiian Health Department records include the ‘office’ copy of Obama’s birth certificate in a bound volume (or something similar). The Hawaiian authorities have checked this out very carefully because of the significance of Obama’s birth place.

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  36. Tauhei Notts (1,509 comments) says:

    I am from provincial town New Zealand.
    I sometimes wonder what we would do for medical attention if the great Mandela had not come to power.

    provincial town New Zealand.
    I sometimes wonder what we would do for medical attention if the great Mandela had not come to power.

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  37. Grendel (873 comments) says:

    Enjoying the sun in brisbane. About to go I and watch ufc fight night . Dime would love how many bogans and trashy cchicks in tapout gear are here.

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  38. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    Rowan @ 10.42 am.
    One of the great pleasures in life surely must be the Bain Campo claim shipwreck foundering on the rocks . The fact that he is so called “factually innocent” won’t most highly likely receive a cent in compensation is extremely relevant to the facts as to what has come to past..
    Kent’s supporters[for your information are very much alive and well and loyal to a tee.
    The Counterspin site to your delight is again up and running and spinning.

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  39. Ross12 (927 comments) says:

    Maybe those Greenpeace idiots will leave Anadarko alone with this new bigger prize to sail around over in WA.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25213845

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13709293

    They certainly know how to do things on a large scale in Aussie !!

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  40. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    I am aware of that Stephie
    The only ‘shipwreck’ is the crown case. Lets see what the outcome of the defamation trial and the JR are before jumping to conclusions.
    You better hope the courts are not aware that Kent is still running his hate site.
    Kent trusted his supporters for money, how much have you given him? He’ll be needing it very soon.

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  41. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    The Seven Craziest Obama Conspiracy Theories especially pertaining to Obamacare for our local motley collection Birthers, Girthers,Survivalists , Tea baggers, white trash etc, etc

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/08/7-obamacare-conspiracy-theory

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  42. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    Rowan Counterspin is not a hate site.Its prime function is to defend the good name of Robin Bain that you and your ilk have sought to so assiduously trash and defame.

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  43. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    white trash

    stephieboy, are poor, conservative and uneducated blacks also “trash” or can only whites be “trash” ?

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  44. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    ‘or can only whites be “trash” ?

    The Beehive is progressing on that right now.

    The middle class jockey for position at library internets now.

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  45. Reid (15,531 comments) says:

    Is there a major financial crash in our near future? You must check out this stunning analogy between the current day Dow Jones Industrial Index compared with the time period 1928-1929 leading up to the memorable stock market crash…

    The pattern of stock price movements looks VERY close to the lead-up to the 1929 top.

    stephieboy, if you haven’t yet woken up to the truth that left-right politics is a punch and judy show for the sheeple, you haven’t awoken to anything. Defending Obama on the basis he pretends to be a Democrat is as idiotic as defending Bush – either one – on the basis they pretended to be Republicans. Look around you, you fool, and observe what has happened to the US in terms of economic decimation and facist police state regulation and actions and understand that it’s been happening under both flavours. Doesn’t that say something to you? Of course it doesn’t. Keep sleeping, fool.

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  46. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    ‘the good name of Robin Bain’

    Bain was an incestuous monster and for all we know a pedophile when his daughter was younger. (As a police investigation would probe if he had lived instead of fleeing justice.)

    His wife had kicked him out to a caravan and only he had real motive for the family murders.

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  47. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    ‘They certainly know how to do things on a large scale in Aussie !!’

    Esp wit that huge oil find in SA Canberra has gone deathly silent on

    Imagine mot making a statement on their biggest oil find in history!

    Conspiracy big time!

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  48. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Maybe those Greenpeace idiots will leave Anadarko alone with this new bigger prize to sail around over in WA.

    They will need good security for that operation. I think any attempts to board or disrupt the ship should be met with deadly force. Boarding ships in that manner is piracy. If one country did the same thing to another it would be considered an act of war.

    The Greenpeace ships should be sunk and survivors shot in the water and it is entirely appropriate to do so. Not only for self defense, but to protect the welfare of billions of people who depend on shipping and oil products. They do so for Somali pirates and the Somali’s are doing way less harm than Greenpeace.

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  49. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    ‘There are a lot of very dodgy things about this man which have been covered up for years by the commie Dems. It’ll all come out in about 20 years.’

    They’ve just added a new extension to the JFK files keeping them closed for another century.

    That Warren Commission was fraudulent to the core.

    So Obama files will probably get the same treatment.

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  50. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis business (2,537 comments) says:
    December 7th, 2013 at 11:37 am

    Robin Bain.? All your comments are not factually based and cannot be substantiated , Even Judge Ian Binnie stated that with the incest allegations he found a” lot of smoke but no fire.” Possibly the only thing he got right in his report.

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  51. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    Stephie
    Counterspin is nothing but a witch-hunt aimed at expressing hatred of Karam and Bain.
    Robin bearly rates a mention on the site.
    Committing 4 acts of murder followed by taking your own life actually does make one rather infamous.
    Robin was nothing but a gutless coward who took the easy way out because he couldn’t face what he’d done.
    And all counterspins claim are misrepresented facts, down right lies and unsubtantiated bull shit!

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  52. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Bain was an incestuous monster and for all we know a pedophile when his daughter was younger. (As a police investigation would probe if he had lived instead of fleeing justice.)

    Thanks wiki.

    You just gave us a motive for David Bain’s killing spree. You also demonstrated that David was likely to be a “troubled” young man given the circumstances you described to us.

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  53. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    ‘There’s been a number of people saying that Key shouldn’t attend Mandela’s funeral because he can’t say if he was for or against the Springbok tour. That’s absurd.’

    Key was willing to turn th eArmed Forces against Kiwi’s and also threatened to cut funding to the human rights conciliator.

    He has no place at Mandela’s funeral.

    it will just be a convenient place for wporld leaders to discuss progree on One World Govt announced officially this year.

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  54. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis business (2,538 comments) says:
    December 7th, 2013 at 11:43 am
    Anothwe fatuous post. I always thought Pro Bainers were CTErs to a core.
    You’ve just confirmed most peoples worst fears

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  55. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    The enemy within: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/12/06/regulation-nation-govt-regs-estimated-to-cost-18t/?intcmp=latestnews

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  56. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Diversity explained, well.

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  57. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    Rowan.
    If you take the trouble there is a substantial amount devoted on Countersipin in clearing Robin Bain of the defamatory allegations made against him.
    But one of them is found in appendix B of Trial by Ambush. It claims that Robin was receiving medication for his alleged depression.His GP Dr McLeod in Court stated he had no knowledge of this . Robin never discussed intimate matters like this to him at all.!

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  58. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    Manolo.
    Tsk, tsk, tsk.!
    The Gospel according to Fox News.
    Enough said.!

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  59. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Incompetence and more incompetence: http://washingtonexaminer.com/1-in-4-obamacare-enrollments-affected-by-technical-bug-first-month/article/2540329

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  60. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    Manolo

    Probably all good to give US comunities more time before the inevitable happens.

    I have a strong feeling God is in the equation. Nothing happens until he’s ready.

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  61. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis.

    The Book of Revelations and end times has a hand in all this, eh.!

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  62. MH (558 comments) says:

    Has anyone asked Colin Craig where obama was born,so we can finally put that question to bed once and for all.

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  63. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    MH

    Craig doesn’t actually confirm or deny anything. Just that a curious game is afoot.

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  64. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    stephieboy

    According to technology….absolutely.

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  65. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    Oh dear.!

    The Washington Examiner pre 24/11/12 and the Late Great Trump inspired Anti Obama pact.

    “Sick and tired of the United States looking like a “third world country” and outsiders coming here to “suck the blood out of this country,” quirky developer and TV personality Donald Trump is eyeing a new super PAC to help defeat President Obama. ”

    24/5/12

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/649416

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  66. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    According to technology. ????

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  67. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    Stephie
    I’m not going to get into a “guilty/not guilty” debate over this. Counterspin has nothing but lies and defamation, your hero KP admitted he lied to the courts, not a good look is it? he is digging his own grave and will get what he deserves from the courts
    Anyway as I previously said whether DB is paid out compensation or not doesn’t change the facts of who killed the Bains.
    “Substantial amount of spin and bullshit” you mean. If you start with a predetermined conclusion then who needs to let the facts get in the way, you can spin the ‘evidence’ to fit no matter what

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  68. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    ‘According to technology. ????’

    You don’t understand what the TSA can do and is doing yet ?

    That’s just a start.

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  69. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    @Moron. (You know who you are.) He spent a fortune on lawyers and won’t see a cent.

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  70. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    TSA.??

    Are we now entering New World Order Territory.??

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  71. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    Oh Denny the retard, how predictable, keep your snout out of this. Your inability to understand that obvious being that your hero killed himself is not my problem.
    Do you really need to judge people because they don’t share your fantasy views? here in NZ we all have freedom of opinion, so if you don’t want to acknowledge what really happened thats your problem. I don’t judge you for it. Suggest you do the same.
    Remember around 75% of the countrys population don’t share your view either, are they all ‘morons’ to?

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  72. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    Rowan.
    The fact that the “fatally flawed” Compensation claim has permanently been marooned and high and dry is all that really matters
    .Your typical tirades of abuse not withstanding.!

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  73. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    @Moron. You know who you are. Thanks for the laugh…

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  74. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    ‘Are we now entering New World Order Territory.??’

    Oh, so TSA is conspiracy theory now ?

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  75. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    Denny you really are an arrogant f…wit. The fact that all you and your loons have is lies is the real joke, How you expect anyone to take your arguments seriously and why you feel the need to judge others because of this is just sad. You really are a delusional POS.
    From now on I really can’t be bothered with the effort of replying to you.

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  76. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    @Moron. Okay. As long as you know who you are. :)

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  77. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Gee Rowan you seem to be taking all this rather personally :)

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  78. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    Righto Kea
    You really think that this was a ‘planned’ and ‘calculated’ execution rather than the killer just losing it!
    Do you believe the police case against Ewen McDonald or Teina Pora as well?
    They don’t have a shread of evidence in either case and the cases are laughable.
    Before you decide on their ‘obvious’ guilt just put yourself in their shoes of what they needed to do to be the killer, i.e. How David shot Robin etc. It becomes a implausible fantasy story so far fetched its laughable.

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  79. big bruv (12,352 comments) says:

    Rowan

    Are you really one of those idiots who thinks that Robin Bain killed four members of his own family then instead of swallowing his own gun he decided to twist himself into knots so he could shoot himself in the side of the head.

    Come on now Rowan, answer that question and the fact that Robin did not leave one fingerprint on the gun and then you will know who did the shooting.

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  80. goldnkiwi (649 comments) says:

    Rowan (1,248 comments) says:

    December 7th, 2013 at 10:42 am

    How do you know that? Do you read all Kent’s emails etc, went to the court?

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  81. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    Righto Blouse
    That there being a 95% probability that he wouldn’t leave an identifiable print and numerous other unidentified prints means he ‘can’t’ have done it can he.
    On that basis who killed the Winnies, Des Winnies prints weren’t on the gun either.

    Racheal, know what? no I haven’t read Kents emails to the courts.

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  82. Fletch (5,721 comments) says:

    What is interesting is that it wasn’t anyone on the political Right in the U.S that started the so-called ‘birther’ movement: it was Bill Clinton, while Hillary was running against Obama in the primaries.

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/53563.html

    Some even say that Clinton was threatened because of it –

    http://x.co/3MY5e

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  83. Rhodie (28 comments) says:

    It is a sad indictment on the way the standards of the modern world have deteriorated when someone who was nothing more a common criminal gets treated like royalty and idolised into demigod status. Had the correct sentence have been passed, this murderer would’ve hanged and the name “Mandela” would be nothing more than a mere statistic.

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  84. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    ‘‘There’s been a number of people saying that Key shouldn’t attend Mandela’s funeral because he can’t say if he was for or against the Springbok tour. That’s absurd.’

    Nelson Mandela was the co-footprint of the post war industrial revolution along with the fall of the Berlin wall and Russian communism. His was th eface of the dismantling of apartheid.

    The new evil is economic apartheid creating the division between wealthy and poor and the sabotaging of the middle class through corporatism. (not capitalism) In this country there is a name and face to this new apartheid. Paula Bennett.

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  85. big bruv (12,352 comments) says:

    Rowan.

    So you are indeed one of those fucking morons who think that Robin Bain killed his family. Oh well, I guess at least it keeps you away from bothering people about Chem trails, Fluoride and 9/11 being an inside job.

    All I will say on the matter (because it is a waste of time talking to close minded idiots like you) is that when it does come out that David was the killer then you will need to come back here and apologise to all of us who can see the truth staring us in the face.

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  86. Nostalgia-NZ (4,686 comments) says:

    Got any photos from the reconstruction given in Court of Robin ‘twisted in knots’ to lean his head against the rifle bruv, or are you just making it up? It’s true that Robin did not leave one ‘identifiable’ print on the rifle, as is the case in over 90% of homicides and suicides. You need to exercise more thought on this matter, when you have you might be able to explain how a ‘homicide victim’ has smears of blood on their hands after being caught ‘unaware praying.’ It’s an idiot test really that leaves some participants reverting to ‘poetry.’

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  87. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    ‘Had the correct sentence have been passed, this murderer would’ve hanged and the name “Mandela” would be nothing more than a mere statistic.’

    I have found it curious that a black could be hanged for next to nothing but this man got a suspended sentence to life imprisonment.

    Curious is a real understatement. Not to take anything away from Mandela’s achievements post prison.

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  88. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    Rowan.
    Who says a 95% probability that Robin would not leave identifiable fingerprints on David’s rifle.???
    Both of his sons did,
    Why not him.?Especially if his hands were covered in blood as claimed.

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  89. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    A crim and perv is caught: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8767494/arrest-over-timaru-child-abduction

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  90. Fletch (5,721 comments) says:

    One thing I do know is that the birth certificate that Obama provided was most probably fake.
    I downloaded the PDF version of the certificate from Whitehouse.gov on the day it was released and (like many people) opened it in Adobe Illustrator. It was all in layers – stuff could be moved around, including the signatures etc.

    It was mocked up from goodness knows what.
    And now an elections clerk from Hawaii has signed an affidavit swearing he was told by superiors that no long form birth certificate exists for Obama in Hawaii.

    Former Hawaii elections clerk Tim Adams has now signed an affidavit swearing he was told by his supervisors in Hawaii that no long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate existed for Barack Obama Jr. in Hawaii and that neither Queens Medical Center nor Kapi’olani Medical Center in Honolulu had any record of Obama having been born in their medical facilities.

    Adams was employed at the City and County of Honolulu Elections Division from May 2008 through September 2008.

    His position was senior elections clerk, overseeing a group of 50 to 60 employees responsible for verifying the identity of voters at the Absentee Ballot Office. It was in this capacity that Adams became aware of the search for Obama’s birth-certificate records.

    “During the course of my employment,” Adams swears in the affidavit (viewable in full as part 1 and part 2), “I became aware that many requests were being made to the City and County of Honolulu Elections Division, the Hawaii Office of Elections, and the Hawaii Department of Health from around the country to obtain a copy of then-Senator Barack Obama’s long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate.”

    As he inquired about the birth certificate, he says, his supervisors told him that the records were not on file at the Hawaii Department of Health.

    “Senior officers in the City and County of Honolulu Elections Division told me on multiple occasions that no Hawaii long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate existed for Senator Obama in the Hawaii Department of Health,” Adams’ affidavit reads, “and there was no record that any such document had ever been on file in the Hawaii Department of Health or any other branch or department of the Hawaii government.”

    http://www.wnd.com/2011/01/254401/

    To add to that, there is very little documentation on Obama’s daughters as far as birth records and the like, even on Ancestry.com, and GenealogyBank.com.

    http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2013/11/where-are-obamas-daughters-baby-pics-and-birth-records-2763582.html

    Who knows who these people really are.

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  91. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    Foodbank liquidation over dodgy dealings

    A Wellington foodbank is being liquidated after fundraising huge amounts of money but providing little aid to people in need.

    Other foodbanks in Wellington are relieved Wellington Foodbank Service Inc will be liquidated after its aggressive fundraising tactics and misuse of money had flow on effects for the whole sector, DCM (formerly Downtown Community Ministry) director Stephanie McIntyre says.

    “It is a tragedy that over four years, generous Wellingtonians have been misled by a renegade service that has extracted a huge amount of donor money while assisting very few needy people.”

    http://news.msn.co.nz/article.aspx?id=8767460

    Excellent case for putting funds straight into homeless hands

    Bureaucracy is usually a lie. Especially politically.

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  92. James Stephenson (1,885 comments) says:

    @Nostalgia – is there an official Karamalite line on David’s admission to his previous council that he was wearing the glasses, a fact that he subsequently lied about?

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  93. goldnkiwi (649 comments) says:

    I reckon that Kent would have had more unpaid supporters at court than Joe Karam.

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  94. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    ‘Who knows who these people really are.’

    Obama’s daughters should both be tall. Yet one is short.

    Hmmm. Which blonde and ginger royal brothers do they remind us of?

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  95. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    Nostalgia.
    Again who says that Robin would not leave identifiable prints on the riffle.?
    As i stated David and Stephen did.
    Why not Robin with those hands allegedly covered in blood
    Your the one who needs to exercise more thought with your fallacious nonsense.!.

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  96. Fletch (5,721 comments) says:

    And as for Obama’s book Dreams From My Father, domestic terrorist and former member of the Weather Underground, Bill Ayers, has said at least three times that he ghost wrote it for Obama and now is repeating the claim in a new book. Even a search on Google Books used to return the book’s author as Bill Ayers.

    Obama has always claimed authorship of his bestselling “Dreams From My Father.”

    But Ayers is telling a different story. In promoting his new book, “Public Enemy,” Ayers’ publisher, Beacon Press, has written a blurb on Amazon.com that says Ayers “finally ‘confesses’ that he did write ‘Dreams From My Father.’”

    The boast appears in other promotions for the book as well. For instance, a Baltimore bookstore — Red Emma’s — last week posted a similar claim that Ayers penned Obama’s memoir as part of an announcement for a book-signing event at the leftist coffeehouse.

    The reprehensible former terrorist twice before laid claim to Obama’s book — once during a post-election interview and again during a speech two years ago.

    In October 2009, Ayers told an interviewer at Reagan National Airport in Washington that he wrote “Dreams From My Father.” Asked if he meant he “heavily edited” the book for his friend, Ayers insisted, “I wrote it.”

    He added that Michelle Obama asked him to help Obama, who had blown deadlines and was struggling with delivering a manuscript.

    Then in March 2011, Ayers revealed his role in the book after giving a speech at Montclair State University in New Jersey. During a question-and-answer session, a member of the audience remarked how well Obama’s first memoir was written.

    Ayers agreed and offered that Obama’s second autobiography — “Audacity of Hope” — paled in comparison. He said “the second one was more of a political hack book, but the first book’s quite good.”

    Then Ayers volunteered, “Did you know I wrote it?”

    “What’s that?” the startled questioner asked.

    “I wrote ‘Dreams From My Father,’” Ayers asserted.

    Obama’s media protectors wrote those statements off as “sarcasm.” But now Ayers is publishing the claim.

    It’s not as far-fetched as it sounds.

    Ayers befriended Obama and his new wife well before Random House published his book in June 1995.

    Ayers and Obama worked together on a panel approving grants for far-left causes. Later that year, Ayers and his radical wife launched Obama’s political career during a fundraiser at their Hyde Park home.

    If Ayers, who was an accomplished writer, aided Obama, it was a godsend.

    Obama had a bad case of writer’s block and couldn’t produce. He had contracted to write his memoir almost five years earlier, when Simon & Schuster had given him a $125,000 contract after he was elected the first black editor of the Harvard Law Review. After Obama missed several deadlines, Simon & Schuster canceled the contract. Random House picked it up.

    http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-obama-care/112613-680812-bill-ayers-claims-authorship-of-obama-dreams-memoir.htm

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  97. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Not without reason the Messiah has been called The Manchurian President.
    Shrouded by mystery, he seems determined to change (read bankrupt) the United States.

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  98. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    Manalo.
    According to the gospel of you Fox, Washington Examiner , Tea baggers etc, etc
    Yes.?

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  99. Engineer (63 comments) says:

    I applaud Nelson Mandela’s fight against apartheid and racism.

    However the fact is the material conditions of black South Africans has barely improved, in fact declined since 1994.

    In 1994 the average South African (most of them black) had a life expectancy of 61 years. Now it is around 53 years.

    That represents an enormous amount of excess deaths what is basically the result of inept rule of a resource rich country.

    Compare with China – through hard nosed and authoritarian policies, life expectancy has gone up, and the economy and living conditions of the Chinese have soared over the past two decades.

    Those who think that a social paradise can be created by good intentions, ‘inspiring’ photo opportunities (such as at the 1995 RWC), and grand statements are fools and idiots.

    The ‘dictators’ of China have objectively improved the lives of hundreds of millions of people at a rate unprecedented in all of human history. Whereas ‘enlightened’ democratic rule in South Africa has turned a resource rich country into a crime infested hell hole.

    The quality of life in a ‘democracy’ correlates directly to the ‘quality’ of the demographic.

    Sadly the ‘quality’ of South Africa’s population requires improvement before ‘democracy’ can ever hope to bring along real social and economic progress in that country.

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  100. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    What would be Wellington’s percentage? http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/12/05/Gay-weddings-17-percent-of-Washington-marriages

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  101. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    There was a cold killer called David
    Whose disciples are all quite rabid
    Along came Binnie Dunce
    Bain fooled him at once
    But the taxpayers’ pot’s not been raided.

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  102. Fletch (5,721 comments) says:

    Manalo.
    According to the gospel of you Fox, Washington Examiner , Tea baggers etc, etc

    Stephieboy, not just that.
    For example, Obama was supposed to have graduated from Columbia University, but none of his classmates remembers him there. A highly respected and well known professor who has been at Columbia forever and knows all the politicians who have ever passed through, also doubts Obama was there.

    Meet Professor Henry Graff, perhaps the most legendary and honored professor ever at Columbia University. He was THE American History and Diplomatic History professor at Columbia for 46 years. And he is more emphatic than yours truly that there are no Obama footprints at Columbia.

    I was put on Professor Graff’s trail by another Columbia classmate, skeptical about Obama’s story. He told me that Professor Graff had been the speaker for the Class of ’53 last weekend at Columbia. My friend was watching Graff answer questions from the crowd when he was asked about Obama at Columbia. Graff said, “I have my doubts he ever went here.”

    I did some digging and located Graff’s home phone number. I called him yesterday. Now retired, he was delighted to hear from me. He agreed to go on the record about Obama. Unlike Obama, Professor Graff clearly remembered me. He was thrilled to hear from his former student. I was in several of Graff’s classes and he remembered me like it was yesterday. He sounded great- like he hasn’t lost any of his trademark sharpness in 30 years since we last met.

    I was honored to learn that this legendary historian has been following my political career for many years. But he had no such cheery things to say about the President. Graff said, “I taught at Columbia for 46 years. I taught every significant American politician that ever studied at Columbia. I know them all. I’m proud of them all. Between American History and Diplomatic History, one way or another, they all had to come through my classes. Not Obama. I never had a student with that name in any of my classes. I never met him, never saw him, never heard of him.”

    Even more importantly, Professor Graff knew the other history and political science professors. “None of the other Columbia professors knew him either” said Graff.

    Graff concluded our interview by saying, “I’m very upset by the whole story. I am angry when I hear Obama called ‘the first President of the United States from Columbia University.’ I don’t consider him a Columbia student. I have no idea what he did on the Columbia campus. No one knows him.”

    There is something wrong with Obama’s story- I know that. Many of my classmates at last weekend’s 30th reunion knew that. Now the most beloved Professor ever at Columbia joins us in publicly questioning the story. Obama is either the ghost of Columbia, or the perfect Manchurian candidate. But something smells rotten at Columbia.

    http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/ghost-of-columbia-part-ii-legendary-columbia-professor-never-heard-of-obama/

    Like manolo, I believe that one day we’ll find out that the person of Obama was created out of whole cloth. His whole story is a fiction. His records have been sealed so we don’t know what he (supposedly) did at school, what he wrote. We only have the vaguest of pointers that are now beginning to disintegrate. I believe a huge scam has been pulled on the American public.

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  103. Odakyu-sen (248 comments) says:

    “There are three ways of being a NZ citizem:
    1. Born in NZ (there are a few odd exceptions).
    2. By descent – ie parent born in NZ (there are some other requirements).
    3. Grant of citizenship – following at least 5 years after being granted residency.”

    #2 “By Decent” is a 2nd-class citizenship because it cannot be passed on to one’s children.
    So in theory, if two New Zealanders, each with NZ citizenship by descent, had a child in a country that does not automatically give citizenship to people born there (like Germany), then the child would be legally stateless.

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  104. Jack5 (4,220 comments) says:

    A Royal Marine sergeant has been sentenced to life imprisonment for murder after he killed a Taliban terrorist in Afghanistan.

    Liberals are trying to turn Western armed forces into boy scouts and girl guides. When are we going to stand up to them?

    Blackett, the Judge Advocate General who sentenced the sergeant, is also the chief judicial officer of rugby in Britain. He’s a former Royal Navy officer, but you have to wonder whether he ever was in action. He doesn’t increase your opinion of the intelligence of rugby administrators. I wonder if Blackett has ever had anything to do with NZ rugby?

    However, who would volunteer to fight for Britain these days, when it’s run by people like Blackett and treats its fighting men the way it is treating the marine sergeant? Would thousands of NZ’ers and Aussies and Canadians volunteer to help the Brits in trouble today as they did in 1939 and 1940? I don’t think so.

    (Judge advocates are the judges who chair court-martial trials.)

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10500133/Killer-Marine-told-he-increased-risk-of-revenge-attacks-and-sentenced-to-minimum-10-years.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Blackett

    http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/how-we-help/about-us/team-h4h/trustees/his-honour-judge-jeff-blackett/

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  105. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    Stephie
    Prove to me that none of the unidentified prints on the gun belonged to Robin, then I will answer your question.
    The crown expert Kim Jones felt the need to lie to the 1995 jury about these prints telling them the opposite of what was true so they would ‘understand it better’, then you can draw yourself a cartoon showing how David would have used the gun in order to replicate the position of those prints, you would have to hold the gun left hand by the forestock, actually try firing a gun while holding it like this before making stupid comments here.
    Waiting for that cartoon, see if you can beat Marzuka for the entertainment value!
    Do the research on statistics for indefiable recovery of latent fingerprints, you have the whole web.

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  106. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    Blouse
    You are such an arrogant presumptive POS that its barely worth taking the time to reply to you. Just like the PC ‘wouldn’t’ overturn the conviction, the retrial ‘would’ find him guilty and the judge ‘wouldn’t’ find him factually innocent etc etc
    How many times have you wrongly predicted the outcome regarding DB here?
    Truth wins at the end of the day, this is not a conspiracy theory as you would seem to believe.

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  107. Gulag1917 (425 comments) says:

    Obama’s CIA connection
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/barack-obama-his-mother-and-the-cia

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  108. goldnkiwi (649 comments) says:

    Defamation proceedings-the new cash cow.

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  109. Chuck Bird (4,406 comments) says:

    @Jack5

    You are quite right. What planet is the fucken judge from. Does he think that scum need an excuse to retaliate?

    I wonder it they got rid of provocation in the UK. I wonder what would have happened if Prince Harry had of finished off the POS?

    I also wonder who was the arsehole who released the video.

    I do not see why the Sargent did not destroy the camera. I hope all servicemen refuse to wear the cameras unless they get the same protection pilots do with voice recorders.

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  110. big bruv (12,352 comments) says:

    Nostalgia-NZ

    Lol…nearly everybody in NZ has seen the contortions the defence team suggested Robin Bain put himself through to shoot himself in the head. It would have been far easier to simply have swallowed a bullet if he had killed four members of his family.

    Oh…and as for the lack of fingerprints, you will have to do better than that. If he shot them he would have left fingerprints, there were none of Robins. Indeed the only fingerprints on the gun were Davids.

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  111. Reid (15,531 comments) says:

    I believe a huge scam has been pulled on the American public.

    Yes Fletch, it has. The thing is, a large proportion of the relatively few people who get that part of it don’t seem to get that this has been going on since way before Obama. And it’s not just pulling electoral fraud its much worse than that. And further, most of those same people don’t follow the logical thought process through and ask themselves the obvious next questions: who and why.

    Who has the capability of not just doing that but of preventing the relevant questions from being raised in both govt circles and in the media, and why have they done this.

    Those are the real questions and because most people get cognitive dissonance even thinking about them, they never do. Shame really, because the answers to those provide the only thing that predicts what’s going to happen next.

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  112. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ big bruv (11,837 comments) says:
    December 7th, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    Wrong.

    David’s were not the only fingerprints found on the weapon

    Finger prints are identified on weapons involving both suicide and murder in less than 10% of the time.

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  113. Ed Snack (1,535 comments) says:

    Fletch, Obama never was “editor” of the Harvard law review, that was an appointed position and involved work. Obama was elected President, a figurehead role. He is still as far as is known, the only President never to have contributed an article to the review.

    The only “evidence” for Obama being of foreign birth comes from a promotional booklet produced in 1991 by Barack Obama’s then-literary agency, Acton & Dystel, which touts Obama as “born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii.” The booklet, which was distributed to “business colleagues” in the publishing industry, includes a brief biography of Obama among the biographies of eighty-nine other authors represented by Acton & Dystel. It also promotes Obama’s anticipated first book, Journeys in Black and White–which Obama abandoned, later publishing Dreams from My Father instead. This appears to have been boilerplate advertising guff, possibly trying to make Obama look more “exotic”, and can’t be considered serious evidence without anything further to back it up.

    It is worth noting that none of Obama’s academic or school records have ever been released. Given Obama’s stellar record of serial dishonesty it seems highly likely that there is something there that is rather disreputable. It could just be that his grades don’t match the “smartest man in the room” puffery, or quite likely he claimed to be a foreign student at some point to gain financial advantage. We simply can’t know as the proof is in those records (as long as they do actually exist, and haven’t been cleaned out) and we aren’t allowed to see them. However using these kind of equal opportunities give-aways improperly to gain advantage is common enough and only considered a disqualifying point if a conservative of some stripe, for example current left wing darling Elizabeth Warren’s use of a fake native american ancestry to gain academic preferment that her scholarship otherwise would not have gained her.

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  114. bc (1,251 comments) says:

    Yawn, all this Obama conspiracy stuff again. How tedious.
    Put it this way. Obama was elected in 2008. That has given all the Obama conspiracy theorists five years to find something on him. I bet a lot of time, effort and money has been spent trying to find something.
    Yet nothing has been found. That suggests that is because, there is nothing to be found.

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  115. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ stephieboy (107 comments) says:
    December 7th, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    Stephen’s prints were not found on the rifle.

    In the vast majority of crimes involving weapons, (legally) identifiable prints, that is those whose ridging pattern is sufficiently defined that there are (for NZ) 8 identifying points (countries vary as to how many they request).

    Whilst there were prints that were identifiable as ‘finger prints’ found on the weapon, including in the trigger position, there were not sufficient identifiable points to legally attribute them to any person, so the police did not photograph them. This was a huge mistake, because whilst they couldn’t have legally identified who they belonged to, they could have identified who the DIDN’T belong to. Another serious omission by the investigating team.

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  116. goldnkiwi (649 comments) says:

    So much easier for everyone if the Police had accepted how the scene was set. Action, stage right.

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  117. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    Righto Blouse
    Crown pathologist Dr Dempster didn’t believe there were any required contortions and it was easy to shoot yourself in any of the methods demonstrated by the defence. You f…wits would have us believe that the judge actually allowed Karam to assist Boyce and the jury brought it, or that the defence required headgear, this was a crown exhibit you dumbarse! I suppose you buy Marzukas piece as the likely method of him being shot.
    Don’t make me laugh.
    Look at what you would have us believe, David hides behind the curtains with the computer turned on, Robin comes in and stands like a zombie, he doesn’t notice anything but stands still as the gun is held in hard contact pointing upwards at his temple. David would have to be crouched down on the floor to achieve this, then we have evidence of a rifle jam/misfired bullet so Robin waits still not noticing anything while David reloads and shoots him again.
    I don’t believe in fairy tales Blouse, there is no explanation for how anyone else but Robin could possibly have inflicted that shot, the crown couldn’t do it so would ask you to ignore it.

    This is all backed up by evidence but you would rather some idiots cartoon, he has a computer and can simulate what he likes, what a joke!

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  118. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ stephieboy (107 comments) says:
    December 7th, 2013 at 11:55 am

    Robin’s Doctor did not say in Court he had no knowledge of anti-depressants. The Doctor used his professional privilege and refused to give information from Robin’s medical files.

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  119. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Judith, do you think David will kill again ?

    I think he would like to. David does not kill in a fit of rage. He enjoys the planing and the game of wits involved in getting away with it, more the the actual act itself. David will be feeling powerful now that he has fooled so many. That is what gives David a rush.

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  120. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    Changing the subject, NZ are making hard work of the game but looks like they will get there as its a very low total, Corey Anderson is doing a great job that the top order couldn’t do, touch wood that he and Taylor can see us through.

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  121. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ Kea (9,324 comments) says:
    December 7th, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    David hasn’t killed once, so he cannot kill again. David was examined by both NZ and international global forensic psychiatrists for an extended period of years, and none of them found any evidence of mental impairment including either psychopathy or sociopathy. There is no evidence to support your claim, and plenty of evidence to refute it. For example, in the almost 20 years since the deaths, he has not exhibited a single sign, even when challenged in prison, of having the type of personality you like to attribute to him.

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  122. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    Kea
    Thanks for your speculation, do you actually have any evidence of any of this? nope didn’t think so, no answer to my 12.50 either?

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  123. big bruv (12,352 comments) says:

    “I don’t believe in fairy tales Blouse,”

    Clearly you do Rowan. If you believe that Robin is the killer and that David is not then clearly you do.

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  124. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    You ‘know’ this do you Big Blouse, were you there? I thought it was the goat, thats about as plausible as the extent of your evidence.

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  125. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    David was examined by both NZ and international global forensic psychiatrists for an extended period of years, and none of them found any evidence of mental impairment including either psychopathy or sociopathy.

    Judith, I am dubious of people who claim to have certificates of “sanity”.

    I think David wants to kill again, but probably won’t.

    David has no conviction. He was locked up for over a decade. He should get his money the scheming little shit.

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  126. Nostradamus (2,769 comments) says:

    Just looked at the cricket commentary. Drizzle in Dunedin but, no, NZ is happy to block block block until the tea break. A bit of urgency before the tea break is surely preferable to a rained-out draw. I don’t know what the weather forecast is for the rest of today, but it’d be nice if they could knock off the last 30-odd runs instead of farting around.

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  127. Fletch (5,721 comments) says:

    Then there’s the online database evidence that a skip-tracer accidentally found – that Obama’s Social Security number had once belonged to a Harrison J. Bounel, born in the 1800′s.

    This link includes screen shots, but this is now being scrubbed away on the internet.
    In fact, up to 5 Obama relatives may have made use of the number.

    http://www.wnd.com/2011/08/336889/

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  128. Pete George (21,806 comments) says:

    The weather looks to be a lottery here, there could be a bit of a break but there could be heavier showers to follow. Looks patchy.

    If they get another chance they should get the runs as quickly as possible. It would be inexcusable to have a draw due to weather.

    Very risky dawdling.

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  129. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    An excellent guide to debunking Obama based Conspiracy Theories,

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/bookmarks/fact-checking-and-debunking/the-debunkers-guide-to-obama-conspiracy-theories/
    Fletch your link has all the typical could be’s and maybe’s

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  130. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    Judith (4,682 comments) says:
    December 7th, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    Dr Mc Leod stated in court that Robin did not discuss any intimate matters like Depression with him.
    If the information about medication is privileged then how did Karam and pro bainers like you establish he was on anti depressants.?
    Did David Bain tell you all.??

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  131. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @stephieboy (109 comments) says:
    December 7th, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    You need to refer to the Court transcripts, all that information is available there. You shouldn’t believe everything you read on CS, it is bullshit written by bullshitters.

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  132. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ Kea (9,325 comments) says:
    December 7th, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    Have you ever met David Bain, had a conversation with him, even communicated in any manner directly with him, or are you basing your opinion of what you ‘think’ David Bain thinks, and will do, based solely on what you’ve read in the media and the opinions of others?

    Surely you can understand why ‘what you think he thinks’ or anyone else may ‘think he thinks’ is a very unreliable measure, under such circumstances.

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  133. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    It looks like Australia are having the last laugh when it comes to the Ashes, England will need to do something special to (a) save this test and (b) avoid giving up the urn. Anything can happen though.

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  134. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    Judith
    when you say “everything you read on counterspin” wouldn’t “anything you believe on counterspin” be more appropriate?

    As I stated earlier how long is KP going to still have money in the bank? Stephie, Blouse and the rest of the JFRB loons should be putting aside funds for him!

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  135. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    based solely on what you’ve read in the media and the opinions of others?

    Judith, if the Jury did not listen to the media and the opinions of others your boy would still be in prison.

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  136. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    Come on England you can do better than this, this performance is a disgrace. You are making the likes of meatpie Johnson look good. I suppose thats unfair on him as he can have good days.

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  137. grumpyoldhori (2,410 comments) says:

    So why is Key a politician going to the funeral of a head of state of SA ?
    When did Key become HOS of NZ ?, funny that, one would have thought the GG would be the man to send.
    Or is NZ a republic with Key as HOS when he wants a trip ?

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  138. grumpyoldhori (2,410 comments) says:

    Rowan, any bugger who bowls at 150k looks good if you are facing him.

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  139. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    True grumpy, he is just to inconsistent for my liking, he is either very good or very bad, doesn’t seem to be much in between.

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  140. Nostradamus (2,769 comments) says:

    Oh dear – looks like NZ has, unbelievably, managed to snatch a draw from the jaws of victory. Very poor. All they needed to do was get on with it before the tea break, before the rain started, and a win was there for the taking.

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  141. Pete George (21,806 comments) says:

    Yep, still raining and the radar has more coming, so they’ve blown it. Very disappointing.

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  142. kowtow (6,701 comments) says:

    In other news from Africa ,but studiously ignored by the world’s MSM intent on deifying Nelson Mandela ,Christians are being slaughtered by adherents to the religion of peace and tolerance………again.

    …a bit like all the violence in the wonderful rainbow republic that our MSM seem intent in ignoring……

    ….like they ignore Mandela’s praise of tyrants such as Gaddafi ,Castro and Che!

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2013/12/hundreds-reported-dead-car-violence-201312619111878594.html

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  143. big bruv (12,352 comments) says:

    “You are making the likes of meatpie Johnson look good”

    FFS….so you know nothing about cricket either then?

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  144. Colville (1,774 comments) says:

    Nostrodamus.
    Exactly the phrase I was thinking.
    I did have someone say to me that Taylor probably did everything he could to go slow just to fu*k it up for Captian McCullum.
    Utu and all that.

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  145. Nostalgia-NZ (4,686 comments) says:

    James Stephenson who ever may have, or may not have lied about the glasses, put the blood smears on Robin’s hands? Right.

    Thanks for the ‘lol’ bigbruv, the sisters need to rely on those. If raising a leg on a chair and leaning your head to the left are ‘contortions’ you must have a hell of a job taking a crap.

    Vomiting on the cricket result if it’s true, but what a fight back for a second innings score so high be the WI.

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  146. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    It was late at night as the Pope, who had departed this world, was approaching the gates of heaven. There was no one around, but there was a small shack just prior to the gates with a light on. The Pope stepped into the shack and startled a young man half asleep sitting at a small grey desk.
    “Excuse me” said the Pope, “but I’m supposed to check in here with St. Peter, but there is no one at the gate.” “Yea, Yea” said the young man, “Where are your orders?”
    “I don’t have any orders, ” said the Pope.
    “Well it’s too late to check in tonight anyhow.” said the young man, “Just go around to the back of the building, find a bunk and dump your gear in a locker. St. Peter will be here in the morning and you can check in then.”
    The Pope grabs his stuff and walks around the building only to find a WWII style open bay barracks. The bunks are stacked three high and the only vacant one is all the way at the end of the building, and its on top. He drags his stuff to the end of the building, but there is no locker for him. He takes a deep breath, thinks about it for a minute and decides this is just one final test. He crawls up into the bunk and falls asleep.
    Suddenly he is awakened by a loud commotion outside the barracks. As he walks outside he sees a huge crowd of cherubs cheering and clapping as a gold convertible limousine approaches. As it draws nearer, the Pope sees a bloke dressed in an expensive suit sitting in the back seat with a beautiful angel on each arm, a glass of champagne in his hand and he is smoking one of the biggest cigars the Pope has ever seen. The Pope turns to the young man who checked him in and asks, “Who is that guy?” “A politician,” the young man replies.
    The Pope says, “I don’t get it. I worked hard all of my life to do God’s work on earth. As a young man I studied hard at the seminary, as a priest I laboured hard to tend my flock and provide guidance when they strayed. I struggled as a bishop to serve the church and as Pope, I was able to attract more followers of the faith. Yet, when I reach heaven, St. Peter isn’t here to greet me. I have to carry my own luggage. I’m stuck in the top bunk of a shed and I don’t even have a locker for my bags!”
    The young man looks at the Pope and says. “Look, we get a Pope every 20-30 years, but he’s the only politician who has ever made it!”

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  147. stigie (629 comments) says:

    GD is very quiet tonight. Wonder if everyone is sulking because of the cricket ?

    I know i am !~

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  148. publicwatchdog (1,823 comments) says:

    The introduction of neo-liberal reforms by the ANC, created, as they have in New Zealand and every other country that has gone down that path – ‘economic apartheid’ ie: ‘war on the poor’.

    For your consideration – another view – from South Africa.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/mandela-led-fight-against-apartheid-but-not-against-extreme-inequality/5360540?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=mandela-led-fight-against-apartheid-but-not-against-extreme-inequality

    Patrick Bond is the Director of the Center for Civil Society and Professor at the University of KwaZulu-Natal in South Africa. Bond is the author and editor of the recently released books, Politics of Climate Justice and Durban’s Climate Gamble.

    “Mandela deserves great credit for ending racial apartheid in South Africa, but his legacy includes the continuation of mass poverty

    ‘The mood here in South Africa is terribly somber.

    This was the day that everyone knew would come. And in the last few months Mandela’s been in hospital four times.

    But it’s hard to come to grips with the loss of someone who has ruled in a moral and spiritual way just as much as in a political way in his first five years as the president of the Democratic South Africa in 1994 to ’99.”

    Penny Bright
    1981 Springbok Tour protestor

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  149. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    Good call Nos
    What these f…wits would have you believe is laughable. I find your 7.14 hilarious.

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  150. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    A few harsh realities from a black preacher. This guy tells it like it is. Try screaming racist at this guy.

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  151. Steve (North Shore) (4,321 comments) says:

    How much is a one way airfare to South Africa?
    Maybe start a fund – Public Dog and Minto Bar can leave and do the protesting in South Africa?

    Fuck off you germs

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  152. MH (558 comments) says:

    Mexico has decided to send 6 pall bearer members of the Shining Light Jumping Bean Foundation to Mandela’s funeral in the RSA -to radiate the love. The Iranian leader I-a-told-ya Noah-Harmoney has promised a back up team of some of the leading lights of Iranian Nuclear Diplomatic Corpse if the Mexicans don’t make it, leading to speculation they intend to revive or gain access to SA’s suspended nuclear programme. Mme Fenton(NZ monitor) will ensure that no inappropriate eating will be seen along the route of the brightly lit procession. There have also been reports that there have been a rush for demand for tyres, both second hand and new throughout the country. Petrol stations have also reported a surge in demand and many have closed due to shortages. AP Rooter.
    3 US pressies in one place – And where is Mugabe? Sgt Rob Muldoon knew where the bastard was.

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  153. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Steve, look at my 9:42am

    Even communist white hating Minto is critical of the violent shit hole SA has become.

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  154. big bruv (12,352 comments) says:

    Kea

    Not sure if this has been said tonight but the reason Minto is so disappointed in how SA turned out is because he desperately wanted SA to turn communist after the release of Mandela.
    Minto conned many people into believing that his opposition to apartheid was because of the racist polices of the SA government, I an sure that Minto did not really give a toss about the plight of the blacks, he could see that the anti apartheid movement was the vehicle he could climb on to usher in a glorious communist state for the people of SA.

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  155. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Big bruv, I can believe that. Same with Mandela. He was not a terrorist fighting to free blacks form apartheid, but to enslave them with communism.

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  156. big bruv (12,352 comments) says:

    Kea.

    If you read any book about Mandela his initial attraction with communism is not in dispute. While I am obviously very anti communist I do not blame Mandela for being as he was given that he was not getting any assistance from the “free world” in his fight against apartheid.
    As I said yesterday, I think Mandela’s greatness comes from what he did once he was released, what he did prior to being imprisoned is nothing short of terrorism.

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  157. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    big bruv, I share your view of Mandela. I also think they could have had a worse leader.

    Actually it is not really Mandela that annoys me. It is the dishonesty of the msm.

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  158. big bruv (12,352 comments) says:

    Kea

    I expect nothing less from the scum MSM.

    What angers me is the way that bummer Bradbury and his lot are trying to claim that it was only ever the vermin from the left who were anti apartheid. Of course this is normal behaviour for scum like Bradbury as the left is always attempting to rewrite history.

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  159. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    I don’t think anyone was comfortable with apartheid. It was hard for me to get over my own ideology to see what really worked in SA. Tribalism is more of a problem than apartheid and now flourishes. Vastly more blacks were killed fighting blacks than fighting whites. The clashes we saw on telly, between the security forces and blacks, were mostly when they turned up to stop blacks killing each other.

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  160. nickb (3,629 comments) says:

    What a disappointing / great day in the cricket, respectively.

    Disappointing to see rain ruin NZ’s chances and great to see Aussie winding the clock back and giving the poms a pasting.

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  161. big bruv (12,352 comments) says:

    Well said Nickb

    Have a scroll up the comments. Some fucking moron who clearly knows nothing about cricket reckons that Mitchell Johnson is a pie chucker.

    If he can chuck pies at 150k plus then he will always be in my team.

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  162. nickb (3,629 comments) says:

    Haha…whilst I might have thought that way pre-Ashes any such thoughts needed dramatic revision after the Gabba test.

    If a pie chucker can take 7/40 against the poms then what does that make them?

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  163. itstricky (1,139 comments) says:

    Then there’s the online database evidence that a skip-tracer accidentally found – that Obama’s Social Security number had once belonged to a Harrison J. Bounel, born in the 1800′s.

    Wow, there’s some fruit loops here. Multi-coloured orange and green ones.

    Why don’t you start here, something another poster put on here. It’ll help answer all your questions. But, hold on, isn’t the fact that your intellect leads you to believe that the questions need to be asked not signifying to you that something is wrong?

    Start here:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/bookmarks/fact-checking-and-debunking/the-debunkers-guide-to-obama-conspiracy-theories/

    All aboard the Wonka-mobile!

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  164. itstricky (1,139 comments) says:

    Oh look, someone’s already posted that link. Please ignore my (non-tin foil hat) rambling. Good night fruit-loops.

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  165. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    Judith (4,684 comments) says:
    December 7th, 2013 at 3:49 pm
    Court transcripts.??
    Counterspin B Shiters,??

    Examples please/??

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  166. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    Fuck me…..someone over in NZ is posting about Bain……..at 12.30am on Sunday morning……get a life! :cool:

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  167. cha (3,537 comments) says:

    At 7:55 a.m the bombing began.

    They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:

    Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.

    At the going down of the sun and in the morning,

    We will remember them.

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  168. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Judith IS Bain’s alter ego.

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  169. cha (3,537 comments) says:

    7 December 1941, the Air Force story.

    http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/7Dec41/

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  170. Fletch (5,721 comments) says:

    Good night fruit-loops.

    itstricky, I know there are many conspiracy theories, but the ones I have posted aren’t theories – they are true. If a whole class from Columbia, and a well respected professor who was there for 43 years say that Obama never went there, and that no one saw him, then he didn’t. And most of these people in that class were Democrats who voted for Obama, and who I’m sure would have liked to have skited that they graduated Columbia the same year as Obama. No one saw him; it’s a FACT, not a theory.

    Ditto for the skip tracer – there are actual screen shots he took while looking at the address where Obama lived showing a social security number that used to belong to someone else. This isn’t a theory. It’s there in the screenshot.

    Guess what, sometimes conspiracy theories are true.

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  171. cha (3,537 comments) says:

    Fletch, tell us all about that foreign student ID.

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  172. itstricky (1,139 comments) says:

    Guess what, sometimes conspiracy theories are true.

    Well, I guess that just goes to show and good experiment on how gullible people can be when they -want- to believe something.

    All those “proofs” are on the page I & the other poster posted. The classmates, the social security number (in fact about 5 variations of the social security number by the looks of things)

    My favourite is the birth certificate where someone had found the exact, original, sample that had been doctored on The Internet – even the numbering was the same. Fruit-loops, keeping the world on the wobbly since 1930

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  173. Yoza (1,348 comments) says:

    Yeah, right on, Fletch. No one can be surrounded by this many conspiracy theories without at least some of them being true!

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  174. Viking2 (10,715 comments) says:

    Now here is a novel idea.

    The Philippine government has joined them in paying for food-for-work and cash-for-work emergency employment for thousands who lost their livelihoods.

    even better is the way the Govt. is moving. Lesson for Christchurch. Send Gerry and his mates to have a look.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/9492343/Thousands-live-in-Philippines-ruins

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