Nelson Mandela RIP

December 6th, 2013 at 11:33 am by David Farrar

As was inevitable, Nelson Mandela has died, aged 95.

I was fortunate enough to briefly meet him when he visited New Zealand in the 1990s. It was the typical two second greet and meet, but he had almost an aura about him that I have not encountered before or since. Former Governor-General Cath Tizard summed it up well:

He put his arm around my shoulders as we walked back to the terminal – and thereafter called me Cathy. What a lovely man he was. He quite enchanted everyone he met with his natural manner and simple charm. I was more in awe of him than of any of the queens, kings and presidents I had ever met.

Mandela had a special role in the world, for three reasons, I would say. One was his incredible personal humility and charm. The other two were his role as the leader of the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa, and the other was his role as the first democratically elected President of South Africa.

His role in the anti-apartheid struggle was controversial. While the struggle was noble, the tactics changed from civil disobedience to armed struggle. Reasonable people can disagree on whether it is legitimate to resort to violence, if you are not allowed to vote on the basis of your race, and there is no prospect of change. For my 2c, I don’t think resorting to violence was the right decision, but I may have thought differently if I was a black in South Africa in the 1950s and 1960s.

He spent 27 years in prison. Upon his release he was elected President of South Africa in their first democratic elections. And his remarkable legacy is that he preached peace and reconciliation, not revenge. Let me tell you that if my political enemies kept me in jail for 27 years, then the last thing on my mind coming out would be peace and reconciliation. I would have a very long list of names I wanted utu on.

Of course post-apartheid South Africa is far from ideal. It has many challenges, partly because so much of its population were kept out of decent education and jobs for generations. But if any other person bar Mandela had become their first President, I think it would be far far worse. He was elected at the age of 75, and in an act of unification made F W De Klerk his Deputy President.

Acts that greatly unified the country included reaching out to the widow of apartheid founder Hendrik Verwoerd with forgiveness and reconciliation, and also urging black South Africans to get behind the previously despised Springboks.

Mandela is not a saint, but he was a symbol, and he played the major role in eventually peacefully ending apartheid, that made the world a better place.

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128 Responses to “Nelson Mandela RIP”

  1. Tinshed (170 comments) says:

    A great man. Sad news.

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  2. martinh (1,272 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  3. Fentex (1,134 comments) says:

    For my 2c, I don’t think resorting to violence was the right decision, but I may have thought differently if I was a black in South Africa in the 1950s and 1960s.

    Let me tell you that if my political enemies kept me in jail for 27 years, then the last thing on my mind coming out would be peace and reconciliation. I would have a very long list of names I wanted utu on.

    The second quote undermines the attempt at dispassionate politics in the first, it leads one to believe you know full well you’d have a different opinion if you were in an oppressed class in apartheid South Africa but, I suspect, refrain from full hearted support of forceful resistance for concern of what it might imply about other more contemporary revolutionaries.

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  4. big bruv (14,217 comments) says:

    Mandela’s greatness does not come from what he did during the apartheid era. The man was a terrorist.

    Mandela’s greatness came from what he did once he was released from prison, for that he deserves every accolade that comes his way.

    Oh…and as for the lefties still banging on about the Springbok Tour, I hope you do realise that your efforts did not make one ounce of difference in ending Apartheid.

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  5. nostrils (53 comments) says:

    martinh – some lessons in grammar wouldn’t go amiss :)

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  6. Nuwanda (83 comments) says:

    Invictus is a pretty good movie featuring Morgan Freeman as Mandela and Matt Damon as Francois Pienaar:

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  7. stephieboy (3,518 comments) says:

    Well said DF. Nobody could put it better. Very balanced and fair minded I heard Jim Bolger on RNZ speak similar. President Obama is as well currently speaking sharing the same sentiments.
    Thank you once again Dave.!!
    Nelson Mandela RIP

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  8. martinh (1,272 comments) says:

    Fair enough nostrills, managing my two kids today

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  9. Cunningham (846 comments) says:

    martinh (557 comments) says:

    “Best to send our maori Governor General to show our peoples proper respect, not a limp wristed politican who cant remember if he supported the anti apartheid movement of Mandelas”

    Using the death of Mandela to take a swipe at the PM. You lefties are all class.

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  10. Jack5 (5,274 comments) says:

    Whatever good can be said about Mandela it doesn’t apply to those hypocrites who marched against white Springboks’ rugby visits and who now support neo-apartheid in NZ: separate schools, increasing separation in the health system, separate property rights, race-based ownership of technology resources such as wireless spectrum, a race-based electoral system, State financed racially separate television and radio, and yes, race-based sports teams!

    Deny if you can, anti-tour oldies, that the South Africans didn’t want a Maori rugby team to visit because it is race based.

    So some of the tears shed in NZ today will be crocodile.

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  11. Fletch (6,523 comments) says:

    Test

    DPF, can we no longer imbed youtube?

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  12. EAD (1,450 comments) says:

    Sad news. His ending of the apartheid regime and message of forgiveness in what could have been an absolute bloodbath deserves respect no matter what end of the political spectrum you come from. Mandela was a rare once in a generation politician – a real Statesman who crossed class, racial and political lines. I sometimes wish he were immortal as now that he has gone so goes all restraint. The truth is that the ANC (and most Black African politicians) don’t do altruism in politics, it is only about power, and self enrichment.

    On another note, I don’t know if I’m going to be able to face the theatrical grief, competitive tributes and weeks of official mourning that the liberal establishment are about to force on us now that he has passed away. I can guarantee that unlike the passing of Maggie, there will be no attacks on his character despite his earlier days as a terrorist.

    I also can guarantee you there will be a whitewash of what life is like now in South Africa which is now the murder, rape & Aids capital of the world. Pretty terrible for blacks (except the ANC & it’s cronies) and whites alike, and far worse for both than under that “nasty” capitalist apartheid which had millions of black Africans scrambling to get into to share the prosperity and escape brutal despots.

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  13. martinh (1,272 comments) says:

    Cunningham.
    I aint a leftie.
    I just see a hypocrite going to someones funeral who has nothing in common with the man and its actually embarrassing to have Key going after his comments about the Springbox tour and not “remembering”. Its a John Banks response and i dont like it.
    What part of that dont you understand?

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  14. Richard Hurst (885 comments) says:

    So Mandela dies and that evil murdering bastard Mugabe goes on living, still in power…..there’s no justice.

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  15. King Kong (48 comments) says:

    Good on Mandela and all that, but his passing means that the next week will be filled with wet drop kicks trying to prove that they loved him the most with their sickening cliché laden drivel.

    How I long for a bit of stoicism at times like this.

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  16. Jack5 (5,274 comments) says:

    MartinH, a Leftist hypocrite, at 11.40 (and in the general debate thread) wants the choice of NZ representative to the Manela funeral made on a race basis.

    That’s an insult to Mandela.

    Get hit once too often on the head with a police baton during the anti-tour protests, did you MartinH?

    You boast at 12.01:”I ain’t a Leftie.”

    More hypocrisy.

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  17. alloytoo (582 comments) says:

    Mandela was in the 1990’s above all a pragmatist.

    It was Mandela’s pragmatism coupled with that of FW De Klerk that averted civil war in South Africa.

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  18. Ashley Schaeffer (535 comments) says:

    Must not watch the news tonight.

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  19. Reid (16,681 comments) says:

    BB your previous comment on GD about Mandela’s death being a signal for an end to restraint against utu, such restraint as it is currently, bears repeating.

    Sadly SA’s support for Mugabe is what has kept that villain in power, and I rather suspect his tactics on landowners in Zim will now be repeated in SA, in addition to wholesale blood letting, now that there is no longer an authoritative voice who would speak out against such actions.

    I hope the govt acts accordingly to allow white South Africans to emigrate here in great numbers, on the grounds they are fleeing persecution, but I bet they won’t.

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  20. martinh (1,272 comments) says:

    Jack5.
    i think you will find you that the governor general is our highest head of state apart from the Queen

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  21. stephieboy (3,518 comments) says:

    Richard Hurst (677 comments) says:
    December 6th, 2013 at 12:01 pm

    True Mugabe is a blight on Southern Africa and its tragic that the man who initially promised much could not take Zimbabwe down the path that Nelson Mandela took South Africa.
    I could not fault John Key on Mandela and as a Jew he would have some understanding and empathy for the path Mandela trod.

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  22. martinh (1,272 comments) says:

    Ps Jack5
    if you cant see the hypocrisy of key saying he cant remember if he supported the anti apartheid movement or not, yet is chosing to attend the funeral then i cant be bothered debating with you. People who attend funerals should be people who are going as they have respect and respect what someone stood for- not “oh i cant remember”

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  23. big bruv (14,217 comments) says:

    martinh

    It says more about how your stupid leftie mind works that you cannot comprehend the possibility that there were many thousands of people who simply did not give a fuck that the Boks were touring in 81.

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  24. martinh (1,272 comments) says:

    “Did you support the tour?”
    “um oh … sorry i cant recall” John Banks.

    Edit above – that above should be John Key not Banks

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  25. martinh (1,272 comments) says:

    Big Bruv.
    Not the point, the point is Key wont say what he stood for, he said he cant recall. Cant recall is different from saying i didnt give enough of a shit either way. That id have some understanding with.

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  26. Jack5 (5,274 comments) says:

    martinh posted at 12.07:

    …i think you will find you that the governor general is our highest head of state apart from the Queen..

    But that’s not why you want the Governor-General rather than Key to go to the Mandela funeral, is it martinh?

    If Key was the Governor-General and we had a Maori Prime Minister you would want the PM to go, wouldn’t you?

    Martinh, your type is closer in thought to the Broederbond than it is to Mandela.

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  27. Cunningham (846 comments) says:

    martinh (561 comments) says:

    “What part of that dont you understand?”

    I understand but this is a post about Nelson Mandela’s death. DPF could post about anything and there will always be some fuckwit who comes on to take a dig at the PM even though it is completely irrelevant to the topic. We get it mate, you hate the PM. There are plenty of opportunities to put forward your views on other posts.

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  28. Paul Williams (880 comments) says:

    Sad news. Perhaps we’d be wise to simply remember him, rather than argue over whatever contribution NZ or any other nation made and of course our PM should attend.

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  29. martinh (1,272 comments) says:

    JACK.
    No thats incorrect, i just think we shouldnt send along a hypocrite. thats all. Send Bill English, thatd be fine just not a hypocrite
    And dont call me a leftie, im centre right, i just really fucken hate seeing hyprocrites in action especially from those in power.

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  30. Ashley Schaeffer (535 comments) says:

    PUBLIC HEALTH WARNING: Do not read comments on Stuff.
    I was physically ill after reading growing numbers of “RIP Madiba” messages from mindless bandwagon jumpers.

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  31. Rightandleft (691 comments) says:

    While it is true that Mandela led the ANC to become a terrorist group in the early 1960s it is important to remember that it followed 50 years of non-violent protest which utterly failed to make any difference. The ANC tried in the 1940s and 50s to use the same tactics as Gandhi in India and the Civil Rights Movement in America. The Defiance Campaign was textbook peaceful civil disobedience. In worked in the US for several reasons, among them the disgust at Hitler’s race-based genocide in WWII and the invention of TV, which allowed people to see the brutal tactics of their police and demand change. It also helped that in America granting more rights to an oppressed minority group didn’t threaten the very existence of the majority group whereas in South Africa giving rights to the Blacks was far more of a gamble for the white minority.

    The South African government threw out their Constitution in order to suppress the ANC and PAC. Far from being disgusted by Hitler the Broederbond and their militant wing had actively supported the Nazis and hoped for a German invasion of SA to oust the British. They later made up most of the leadership of the ruling National Party. They didn’t allow TV in South Africa at all until well into the 1970s and they strictly censored the media. That meant mass protest movements would get no press coverage and therefore gain no wide public support. If the TV cameras hadn’t been there to broadcast images of Bull Connor turning fire hoses and dogs on Black teens in Birmingham, Alabama, MLK’s campaign there would have failed. That’s what the ANC and PAC came to realise by the early 60s. The turning point came in the Sharpeville Massacre in 1960, where SA Police killed 69 unarmed peaceful protesters. That kind of violence made it clear that peaceful protest was not working. Jews in Israel turned to terrorism against the British in similar circumstances.

    It is also true that the ANC and PAC became much more violent in the 1980s but by that time Mandela was not running things anymore. He proved his good character upon his release from prison. I’ve been to Robben Island and seen the conditions he had to live in. They were absolutely appalling. That he was able to forgive and preach peace after all that is stunning. What’s more, people often forget that one of Mandela’s greatest achievements was not preventing civil war between Blacks and Whites but stopping a civil war between rival tribes in the early 90s. The massive bloodshed between the Bantustans, the separatist Inkatha Freedom Party (Zulu-led) and the ANC (Xhosa-led) was spiralling out of control until Mandela managed to get all the parties to make peace in 1994. He was an amazing statesman and a great unifier.

    I do worry about the fate of South Africa now that he is gone. The ANC today is horribly corrupt but nevertheless gets most Blacks’ votes. The income disparity is staggering and the level of violence out of control. I’ve spent two months in SA in the last couple years and everywhere I could see the hatred simmering just below the surface. People like Julius Malema are just waiting to stir things up, calling for nationalisation of the mines, singing songs about shooting whites. I hope things don’t fall apart, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they did.

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  32. stephieboy (3,518 comments) says:

    One thing is for sure the death of Nelson Mandela will bring out here from under the borer infested floor boards closeted members of the Right Wing Resistance and certain affiliates of our local white trash .

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  33. Lance (2,712 comments) says:

    FFS martinh

    Back when I was a primary school pupil I can’t remember if I supported nuclear testing, at high school I can’t remember if I had an opinion on Agent Orange. As a teenager I can’t remember if I had an opinion on the rights and wrongs of the tour. I only thing I do remember was I thought the pitch invasion ‘sucked 2 da max’.

    So your point seems to be ALL teenagers are raving hypocrites if they do not have a strong political position on any and all issues and clear recollection of that position 30 years later?
    What a dick.

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  34. martinh (1,272 comments) says:

    Cunningham, no i dont hate him at all, i just dont like hypocritical behaviour so i thiink that he should be held to account for his past actions. I think its disrespectful to Mandela thats why im pissed off. Call it some stage of grief but this PM speech saying how great he was pisses me off

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  35. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    This groovy song spent three weeks atop the Kiwi music charts in the winter of 1984,

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  36. kowtow (8,935 comments) says:

    Richard Hurst

    Mandela and the corrupt new regime installed in South Africa under him has been instrumental in keeping the genocidal Mugabe in power.

    You won’t hear that from the uncritical, adoring media.

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  37. Random Punter (78 comments) says:

    martinh

    “i think you will find you that the governor general is our highest head of state apart from the Queen”

    No. The Queen is our head of state; the Governor General is her representative in New Zealand.

    I wonder how long it will be before the calls start for the taxpayer to pay for Minto, Richards et al to attend the funeral.

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  38. BlairM (2,340 comments) says:

    I know the Left love to think of 1981 as this great moment in NZ history, but the reality was that there were plenty of people who probably gave the Springbok tour very little thought. It’s entirely reasonable and plausible that Key either had no strong opinion on it, or if he did, didn’t dwell on it such that he can’t remember what his view was at the time.

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  39. Cunningham (846 comments) says:

    martinh have you actually thought that maybe he can’t remember? 30 years is a long time. I can’t even remember what I thought that far back.

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  40. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    Campbell will be all over it like a cheap suit…smarmy and putrid , what he does best

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  41. martinh (1,272 comments) says:

    Lance, Cunningham, Blair
    Fair points thanks. But Key would of being in his late teens back then wouldnt he?
    I can remember my opinions of back then and would happily let them be known right or wrong instead of doing a John Banks technique.

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  42. martinh (1,272 comments) says:

    Well ive gotta go, but theres my anger on his death.
    I suppose many in SA will get angry too over his death for whatever reason

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  43. RichardX (330 comments) says:

    martinh (564 comments) says:
    December 6th, 2013 at 12:01 pm
    Cunningham.
    I aint a leftie.

    Proof you don’t have to be a leftie to be an arse

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  44. Jack5 (5,274 comments) says:

    Stephieboy posted at 12.21:

    One thing is for sure the death of Nelson Mandela will bring out here from under the borer infested floor boards closeted members of the Right Wing Resistance and certain affiliates of our local white trash.

    That’s blatantly racist, Stephieboy, and it’s typical of the hypocrisy of much of the liberal-Left.

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  45. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,760 comments) says:

    I think of this on Nelson Mandela’s passing.

    Any idea where he is being buried? From what I recall from the Nelson Mandela deathwatch press frenzy earlier this year his extended family were disputing where his final resting place should be.

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  46. kowtow (8,935 comments) says:

    Where will he be buried?

    Judging by the way the world’s media is reacting ,at Mecca. That way we’ll all spend the rest of our lives bowing and scraping in his direction……..

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  47. Keeping Stock (9,373 comments) says:

    stephieboy said

    One thing is for sure the death of Nelson Mandela will bring out here from under the borer infested floor boards closeted members of the Right Wing Resistance and certain affiliates of our local white trash .

    Just as the death of Baroness Thatcher brought out some of the finest from the political Left.

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  48. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    He was a convicted terrorist who targeted civilians. He dealt with his [black] opposition by sticking a tyre over them, soaking them with petrol, and burning them to death alive and screaming.

    He took the country from a place where thousands of blacks immigrated to so they could have the best career prospects and personal security in Africa, to the murder, rape and robbery capital in the world.

    Blacks are far worse off now and the country is turning from a bread basket to a basket case.

    People love the dream, not the reality.

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  49. Ashley Schaeffer (535 comments) says:

    Nelson Mandela is a great example for longer prison sentences. 27 years of incarceration and he didn’t reoffend once.

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  50. mandk (1,030 comments) says:

    @ Kea,
    This is the reality:
    “I think Mandela’s greatest legacy and influence on the South African nation is that we are basically at peace with each other, not withstanding our great diversity… His greatest legacy is that he was a unifier, and that he successfully broke the bridge between the conflict of the past and the peace of today” FW De Klerk

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  51. RRM (10,099 comments) says:

    I’d probably get a bit terrorist too if I was living in a country like that.

    To appreciate Mandela’s quality, all you have to do is compare him to Mugabe..

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  52. stephieboy (3,518 comments) says:

    Kea. !
    The whole apartheid system was unsustainable and it was impossible and inconceivable that a minority of 3 million whites could forever rule over some 40 million blacks.
    Mandela was no more a Terrorist than white regime under Mahlan, Verewood and Vorster that sought to terrorize the Black population into eternal.submission.
    As a Apartheid apologist you present a highly misleading account of the i”idyllic” life under apartheid tellingly similar to those glowing accounts that members of the left present under Stalin and Mao.
    There is no denial of the present difficulties that South Africa is presenting but is doing a lot better than ever imagined or anticipated when total anarchy and blood shed was predicted.
    To suggest fondly a return to the old apartheid system is utterly daft .!

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  53. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Whether it is better now or then is irrelevant to the discussion.

    TheContrarian summarises Mandela supporters well; Ideology ahead of people.

    I regard his position as heartless and cruel.

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  54. TheContrarian (1,094 comments) says:

    I deleted my comment because you’re not worth the effort to be honest. Have fun sweetie.

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  55. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    stephieboy, who cares what we think. It does not matter.

    It matters what Africans think. And millions of them immigrated to the apartheid state (from black majority ruled countries) for the benefits South Africa offered them.

    If things were as bad as white liberal activists in the West claim, then why did so many want to move there ?

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  56. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    To appreciate Mandela’s quality, all you have to do is compare him to Mugabe..

    RRM, Surely Zimababwe is model of human rights and prosperity now it has removed the evil white mans rule ?

    I should mentioned I was passionately anti-apartheid at one time. Then I grew up and learnt a few truths. I now care more about people than my ideology.

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  57. MT_Tinman (3,315 comments) says:

    Someone once told me that if you can say nothing good of the dead, say nothing.

    I shan’t comment.

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  58. Andronicus (219 comments) says:

    Turning to armed struggle against apartheid was bloody, but understanda

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  59. tvb (4,553 comments) says:

    Those white South Africans were not going to give up their way of life without an armed struggle. Mandela’s armed struggle had a moral purpose against an immoral regime. The sanctions also helped and the international isolation. But Mandela in preaching forgiveness and reconciliation helped heal the wounds. South Africa is far from perfect and the ANC is not a perfect Government and the economy is not flash either. So there remains much to be done.

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  60. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    MT_Tinman , that “someone” cared more about banal platitudes than people. You should keep better company.

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  61. Andronicus (219 comments) says:

    Turning to armed struggle was bloody but understandable. What other choice was there?

    Mandela’s greatest achievement was persuading black South Africans to buy into the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Many had good reason to hate the whites, particularly the police and army, yet, despite strong opposition, Mandela convinced them the best path was to forgive and move on.

    He

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  62. Scott Chris (6,178 comments) says:

    I could imagine that if anyone were to turn up for Kea’s funeral they would only be there to say that Kea was a complete fuckwit and a troll.

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  63. stephieboy (3,518 comments) says:

    Kea (9,290 comments) says:
    December 6th, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    If life under the minority white apartheid regime was so good for the majority blacks then you would expect them to ” vote with their feet” , renounce the ANC and Mandela and continue support with the white regime.
    Correct.?
    BTW interesting how advocacy for armed struggle becomes ” terrorism”but the same e.g by the American Colonists armed struggle against British rule is something apparently altogether.different.?

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  64. Rightandleft (691 comments) says:

    Kea,

    1. The tyre over the head murders you described, called necklacing, were not invented until 1985, over two decades after Mandela was imprisoned. There is some evidence that Winnie Mandela advocated the use of such means of execution of police informants, but Nelson Mandela was no advocate of such acts.

    2. Mandela’s terror acts were directed at infrastructure and police/military targets and sought to avoid civilian casualties (though some did happen). Later on in the 70s and 80s the ANC and PAC did indeed target civilians, including bombing shopping malls and shooting up churches in white areas. But Mandela had no control over the organisation at that point.

    3. Crime rates in Johannesburg and other SA cities had already become extremely high in the 1980s, while Apartheid was still in place.

    Now it is true that the Apartheid regime built the strongest economy in Africa and many Africans immigrated to SA despite the racism there. I would also say it is a failing of Mandela that he never fully denounced the evil acts of Robert Mugabe. But to portray Mandela as an unrepentant terrorist who targeted civilians is just wrong. The crimes of the white regime are just as awful and they did in fact target civilians, killing hundreds over the years.

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  65. Jack5 (5,274 comments) says:

    Stephieboy, who talked of “white trash” earlier in the thread, says of apartheid in his 1.20 post:

    … (it) was impossible and inconceivable that a minority of 3 million whites could forever rule over some 40 million blacks.

    Even if extremely undemocratic, such rule can last a long time. For example, the Manchu, comprising 1 per cent or less of the total population, ruled China for about 300 years. Norman feudalism over Anglo-Saxon Britain lasted for centuries.

    And Stephieboy, would you mind clarifying please why you raised John Key’s ethnicity in your 12.10 post? Why is it relevant?

    My guess is that South African Jews would have been about as welcome in the Broederbond as Anglo South Africans. However, many or most Jewish South Africans would have been sympathetic to the apartheid regime, or at least apathetically compliant with it, just as many or most Anglo South Africans were.

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  66. David Garrett (7,698 comments) says:

    That’s one of the best posts you have written DPF…a damn sight more “balanced” than the shit we get fed constantly by the MSM.

    My two cents…Whatever he might have done prior to being imprisoned for 27 years, it was him alone who prevented the bloodbath almost everyone predicted when the blacks finally got control of the country.

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  67. David Garrett (7,698 comments) says:

    Right and left: Well said…But re “necklacing”, Winnie Mandela may not have invented it but she was an enthusiastic proponent of the practice. I remember a shiver running up my spine when I heard her say on the TV ” With our necklaces, we will…”. I have never read any suggestion that Nelson supported the practice…and as you point out, he was in jail, and had been for a very long time when this punishment became popular in the 80’s…

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  68. stephieboy (3,518 comments) says:

    Jack 5 .A ll I was suggesting that there are still elements in our society who are decidedly prejudicial towards Blacks and the Likes of Nelson Mandela a I would like to add to the likes of Martin Luther King and President Barack Obama.
    The are many amongst them who |I’ve found are also prejudicial towards Jews.
    Its often to do with the question of race
    Mind you not all but a great many of them in my opinion.
    Again its a big positive that John Key is a strong advocate of inclusiveness, tolerance and racial equality and I believe his Jewish background is a likely factor in his attitude .

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  69. kowtow (8,935 comments) says:

    “The blacks” don’t control the country.

    The ANC elite do……..

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  70. stephieboy (3,518 comments) says:

    The black don’t control their country etc.??
    Well I suppose the same could be said of America and elsewhere.
    But at the end of the day people like the blacks in S A like the American and French Revolutionaries do like e to have some say in their destiny and not allowing British rulers , French absolute monarchs or minority whites telling them what to do all the time.!

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  71. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Whether he was important to us personally, or as a country, is neither here nor there. There are millions of people that he was important to, and who loved and respected him – therefore they are grieving for him and remembering what he achieved for them. That makes his death worthy of note, and respect.

    I hope he is able to rest in Peace and that his death reminds those that need it of the value in standing up for what you believe in.

    I wonder how many of us would have gone through what he did, for our beliefs?

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  72. Longknives (4,952 comments) says:

    “There are millions of people that he was important to, and who loved and respected him – therefore they are grieving for him and remembering what he achieved for them. That makes his death worthy of note, and respect.”

    What a shame the left didn’t show the same ‘respect’ when Baroness Thatcher died. They were- almost universally, crowing with delight and bombarding us all with pathetic ‘the witch is dead’ jokes…

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  73. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Longknives (3,434 comments) says:
    December 6th, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    Really, and who exactly is ‘the left’? Are you saying that every single person that supports leftist politics felt that way – and spoke out about it, or are you over exaggerating for the sake of sensationalism?

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  74. Longknives (4,952 comments) says:

    I wasn’t having a dig at you Judith (unless you were one of those ‘great wits’ who bombarded Facebook and Twitter with witch jokes upon Thatcher’s passing)
    I was just making a point about the rather different fashions/attitudes towards the deaths of these two powerful political figures…

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  75. Longknives (4,952 comments) says:

    I mean- Where were the ‘World Grieves for Thatcher’ headlines??

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/africa/9485450/World-grieves-for-hero-Mandela

    The ‘World’ certainly isn’t grieving. Mandela had a lot of enemies as well…

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  76. All_on_Red (1,742 comments) says:

    martinh (567 comments) says:

    December 6th, 2013 at 11:49 am

    “Fair enough nostrills, managing my two kids today”

    Well get off the keyboard and go outside and play with them. Sheesh what a lazy dad.

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  77. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Again its a big positive that John Key is a strong advocate of inclusiveness, tolerance and racial equality and I believe his Jewish background is a likely factor in his attitude .

    stephieboy, are there anyother stereotypes you apply to Jews, or other relgions, races and cultures ?

    I must say you are refreshingly un-PC.

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  78. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    A believer in tolerance and diversity writes:

    I could imagine that if anyone were to turn up for Kea’s funeral they would only be there to say that Kea was a complete fuckwit and a troll.”

    LOL :)

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  79. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    It is a shame his old friend is not here to say goodbye:

    Embracing Gaddafi as he stepped off the plane with his harem of female bodyguards (video below), the venerated Nelson Mandela would go on to toast his “brother leader” in a speech where he denied South Africa would ever “turn its back” on Libya:

    I shall therefore take the liberty to invite our guests to rise and raise their glasses with me in salute to Muamar Qaddafi, our Brother Leader of the Revolution of the Libyan Jamahariya

    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/files/fp_uploaded_images/110324_Qaddafi2.jpg

    http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01833/19-march-1999_1833146i.jpg

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  80. Reid (16,681 comments) says:

    Stuff is true to form in its de-halo Key campaign in using a totally inappropriate photo of Key’s expression above its front page link to the “Mandela mourned by Kiwis” story.

    They just can’t help themselves, can they.

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  81. tas (655 comments) says:

    Madiba was incredible. The world is a poorer place for his leaving.

    There are some who fear that his passing may lead to violence in South Africa, as he was the one who held back the desire for revenge after apartheid ended.

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  82. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    Interesting comments from John Minto:

    Nelson Mandela was a hero in the 1980s for the likes of ‘Halt All Racist Tours’ veteran protestor John Minto.

    He says apartheid was actually overthrown during Nelson Mandela’s 26 years in prison, but he was such a charismatic, inspirational figure that people still regard him as the hero who brought an end to apartheid.

    “A lot’s been made of the fact that he was able to forgive the people who had imprisoned him, and that’s a remarkable thing.

    “Many of us, after 16 years in prison for struggling for human rights, would probably feel pretty bitter and twisted.”

    But John Minto does not think history will, in the future, regard him as well as he is today.

    “Because of the fact that, while he brought political and civil rights to black South Africans, economic and social conditions are in many cases worse than they were under the old apartheid regime.”

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/nbint/2011830601-tributes-flow-for-nelson-mandela

    I don’t think South Africa’s current problems can anywhere near all be attributed to Mandela’s legacy.

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  83. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    he was the one who held back the desire for revenge after apartheid ended.

    Tell that to the hundreds of white farmers, their kids and families, raped tortured and killed. It is sickening how this was not reported in the msm.

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  84. stephieboy (3,518 comments) says:

    Kea do you happen to be a member of the Afrikaner elite society, the Broederbond by chance.?
    I can recall many like you predicting racial calamity, bloodshed and an apocalypse once de Clerk and his government acceded authority to Mandela and the ANC.

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  85. Don the Kiwi (1,808 comments) says:

    Many white South Africans were against Apartheid. It was the Boer-controlled sector that was the problem – menbers of Der Broderbond.
    Sure, the blacks were suppressed. But so were the coloureds – those of mixed race or the likes of Indian descent. But so were some of the whites also discriminated against. I have a friend from SA who is of Irish descent, who recounted when he was at school. At a rugby match, those of Boer descent had all the goodies – while those of English/Irish descent had a separate area, like the blacks and coloureds – so there were many whites who were also working for the end of Apartheid.

    But when the change came with the ANC being strongly socialist and the government dominated by blacks, a degree of reverse racism – or apartheid – was gradually brought in. He was in the construction industry. The pecking order of people that he had to employ, was 1. Black tradesmen first, but always the proportion favouring rhe blacks. 2. If women were employed, they had to be black.3. Handicapped black laboureres. 4. White labourers.

    He had a successful business, doing large government contracts. He was told that he had to employ several black directors on his company board, otherwise he would lose his government contracts. After a few years of this carry on, he sold up his business and moved here – losing several million rand in the process.

    The Apartheid system was abhorrent and had to go. But what has transpired is not that much better – the persecution of the white “bosses” and the socialist mindset has dragged SA backwards – even Mandela’s promise of housing hit a brick wall many years ago, and Jacob Zuma is as corrupt as any other black SA leader.

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  86. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    I can recall many like you predicting racial calamity, bloodshed and an apocalypse once de Clerk and his government acceded authority to Mandela and the ANC.

    And that is exactly what happened. The fact our media refuses to report on it does not change the reality. It is the rape capital of the world, and is right at the top of murder and robbery.

    Enough of the good news though ! It is getting worse and is set to end up like every other failed black state.

    You care nothing for blacks. You just want to impress with your progressive love of darkies.

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  87. kowtow (8,935 comments) says:

    …….not to mention the slow but sure genocide of white farmers there……

    eventually South Africa will become a Uganda,Ghana or Zimbabwe , bread basket to basket case……

    ……”liberation” , freedom …….and then starvation…….brilliant.

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  88. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    WARNING: Contains images of Mandela’s South Africa

    http://www.thetruthaboutsouthafrica.com/p/white-genocide-in-south-africa.html

    Mandela: Speaking to reporters after singing to kill whites

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  89. stephieboy (3,518 comments) says:

    Kea you have not answered the first part of my question.
    Are you or not a member of the Afrikaner Broederbond .?
    My attitude to Mandela or the ANC for that matter has nothing to do with a “progressive loves of darkies .”
    It’s actually no different and has to do with all of to David Farrar’s reasoned and generous response to Nelson Mandeal’s passing.
    Lift yourself out of your cesspit of hate and read it ,and ponder carefully and reflectively.

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  90. Manolo (14,166 comments) says:

    Tears streaming down my cheeks. Sobbing uncontrollably.

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  91. Francis_X (147 comments) says:

    Well said, DPF.

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  92. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Lift yourself out of your cesspit of hate and read it ,and ponder carefully and reflectively.

    I do not hate blacks or whites. The difference between you and me is that I put the welfare of people ahead of ideology. You do not.

    Davids words are banal drivel of the type infesting the msm at the moment. Meanwhile the murder, rape, robbery and declining living standards, continue their downward spiral for millions of blacks in SA.

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  93. stephieboy (3,518 comments) says:

    Manolo Tears streaming etc,

    Was it this by chance,?

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  94. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    “Was it this by chance,?”

    stephieboy, Hitler also believed in preserving the indigenous culture and having the indigenous people running the country, just like Mandela did.

    Try thinking before posting predictable boiler plate crap about what a wonderful guy Mandela was. I admit the media portrayal of him was hard not to like. But the reality is not so flash. I remember a time when I thought like you and wanted the blacks to rise up and destroy the whites. Then I got to grow up and educate myself.

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  95. MH (830 comments) says:

    A lot is made of the imbalance of legit white settlers vs Blacks,try to remember most blacks were illegal workers,immigrants,post WWII. The SA Defence Force and border police weren’t there to keep blacks in.

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  96. kowtow (8,935 comments) says:

    The true hero of the piece is FW de Klerk.

    He had the big ,strategic picture in mind,Thatcher did too. The Soviets were the enemy and wanted to control southern Africa.They would have controlled the sea lanes of the Atlantic and Indian Oceans as well as all southern Africa.(Think Mozambique and Angola).

    When the Soviet Union collapsed ,de Klerk knew his almost sacred mission of denying that goal to the enemy was over. He was ready to give up power and did so.

    He could have continued to hold onto power into deep and long lasting bloodshed.The majority of the security forces in SA had to have been blacks and coloureds ,they supported the regime.They could have duked it out but didn’t.

    The real sacrifice was made by the white giving up power.They are to be honoured for their generosity and selflessness.

    The left don’t witter on about injustice in SA today as they never cared about injustice ,they simply wanted a communist victory and have now moved onto their latest fashionable hate figure ,Israel.

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  97. kiwi in america (2,314 comments) says:

    The movie “Invictus” (that I understand had only limited release in New Zealand – for obvious reasons!) encapsulated some of Mandela’s qualities as President. When it was clear that the ANC controlled national sports council (the exact name of this entity escapes me) wanted to impose restrictions on rugby in South Africa (such as changing the Springbok name and symbol), Mandela personally visited the delegates and pleaded for them to leave South African rugby alone. As one of the potent symbols of the white Apartheid regime, rugby would’ve been an easy target for the soccer crazy new black majority rulers. Boycotts of rugby had proven to an effective part of the suite of sanctions much of the west imposed on South Africa. Mandela reasoned passionately that there was no way that there was any hope of reconciliation if the new black majority government took away or modified such a vital cultural icon to white South Africans. Whilst there have been some changes (not all welcomed by the whites) in the administration of rugby in the new South Africa, Mandela used his influence to make sure that South Africa would remain near the top of world rugby.

    Having had a number of South African clients before I left NZ, I heard plenty of tales of the horrendous crime wave that continues to afflict South Africa. It is hard to know how much Mandela and the ANC have been able to achieve in lifting blacks out of poverty. I suspect that it’s similar to post-communist Russia or post-Saddam Hussein Iraq – when people have been oppressed and in poverty for so long, repairing the damage is a multi-decade task. Knowing that socialism always fails and seeing the ANC operating in a manner similar to other corrupt post-colonial majority black African regimes, one wonders how much of the progress in South Africa under Mandela was through the sheer weight of his persona and his personal example of forgiveness and his emphasis on genuine healing and reconciliation. Time will tell.

    Regardless of ideology, he was a colossus on the world stage and averted what could have been a bloody racial civil war as Apartheid was being dismantled. I do find his deification by the left a little nauseating as I’m sure we will be treated to endless hagiographic interpretations of his legacy. He did help lift the Springboks to new heights in the 1996 Rugby World Cup and he did divorce his obnoxious wife Winnie upon leaving Robbin Island.

    Like all major transformative figures in history, he was a complex mix of greatness and flaws. Let’s hope that the plight of blacks in South Africa gets better after his passing and that ANC corruption does not lead South Africa down the path of so many other African nations.

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  98. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    The real sacrifice was made by the white giving up power.They are to be honoured for their generosity and selflessness.

    A point often [always] overlooked.

    Another is that Mandela did not end apartheid. He was merely a symbol of the struggle for Western left wing media. Mandela did however oversee the rapid and sharp decline of SA into the sorry mess it is today.

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  99. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    It is hard to know how much Mandela and the ANC have been able to achieve in lifting blacks out of poverty. I suspect that it’s similar to post-communist Russia or post-Saddam Hussein Iraq – when people have been oppressed and in poverty for so long, repairing the damage is a multi-decade task.

    KIA, what a dishonest remark to make.

    The standard of living and personal security for blacks has plummeted markedly. There was never any “lifting blacks out of poverty”. There was only ramming them into it.

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  100. slijmbal (1,236 comments) says:

    I’ve in-laws in SA and have spent all in getting on a year’s worth of time there spread out over 30 years. There are a lot of myths about SA and to some extent Mandela.

    I agree with DPF in that Mandela’s attitude combined with de Klerk’s (hope I remember that correctly) allowed (without major violence) a change in regime. Most South Africans (white and black) expected a major blood bath. That was a huge achievement. Not to be under-estimated. There was huge resentment by blacks in SA of the treatment they received and being 2nd class citizens. There was recognition by the vast majority of whites that the regime was unfair and unreasonable but huge fear of the consequences of handing over power.

    SA, however, did not really take advantage of the opportunity it had. The ANC is marxist (because of the historical support of the USSR and aligned countries like Lybia) and very corrupt. Zuma is a good example – he wasn’t even voted in as president when he took over the presidency. SA is now racist against whites at an institutional level and crime, poverty and health issues abound. White flight still occurs and the country is going backwards at a rate of knots. There is an elite, rich black who pretty much replaced the elite whites with the average black not really benefiting. It is still an attractive place to go to for other Africans but that’s more of a statement of how awful the other African countries are.

    Hopefully, Mandela’s legacy will be the transition and not the country that the ANC are now destroying. Imagine what might have happened with a violent change of regime – that is a decent legacy.

    BTW – as a pom I had never heard of the issues with the tour before coming to NZ – I don’t think the rest of the world noticed.

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  101. Sofia (857 comments) says:

    A little cringe-worthy, if not Monty Pythonesque, for TVNZ ONE NEWS to dress their front people in black.

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  102. Don the Kiwi (1,808 comments) says:

    There was much brouhaha about Mandela inspiring the Springboks to win the 1995 World Cup.

    The only reason SA won was because the All Blacks were poisoned. I still have vivid recollections of the players spewing their rings out on the sideline – players not being able to be subbed, because any remaining subs were sicker than the guys on the field.

    A sort of ironic tribute to the success of post-apartheid SA.

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  103. big bruv (14,217 comments) says:

    “The only reason SA won was because the All Blacks were poisoned.”

    FFS!…another example of the arrogance of NZ rugby fans.

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  104. kowtow (8,935 comments) says:

    Sofia

    Your comments are so ungracious.

    TV1 have outdone themselves in showing how they are on the side of justice and peace,progressivism and racial harmony.

    Nothing like a bit of “balanced journalism” to confirm whose side these commies are on.

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  105. kowtow (8,935 comments) says:

    Who does bigot bruv approve of?

    Dubai camel jockeys?

    Azerbajan dwarf tossers?

    Turkish wrestling?

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  106. Sofia (857 comments) says:

    Kowtow – you’re right of course, and they averted any backlash nicely by leaving slob weather man Hickey dressed pretty much as usual.

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  107. Harriet (5,200 comments) says:

    LOL:

    Mandela did absolutly nothing when he became President of RSA. He smiled and waved. That’s all.

    It was nothing more than a token position to keep the blacks onside so that civil war would not breakout between the ANC and the Incathra Freedom Party.

    The election itself was rigged when the IFP was denied entry, due to the late entry of the -wait for it- the ‘late entry’ law! The pre-election surveys showed the IFP winning by a landslide. The whole thing was a joke. The only chance RSA ever had with blacks running the place was to have Mandela and the ANC looking like they were running it – so they rigged it.

    But the MSM won’t ‘revive’ that – they’ed rather Mandela gets mourned by gullable young ‘peaceniks’ – their current viewing segment!

    Mandela had as much use as that smiling Budda bloke from Tibet currently does. I can’t remember his name. :cool:

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  108. stephieboy (3,518 comments) says:

    “A point often [always] overlooked.

    Another is that Mandela did not end apartheid. He was merely a symbol of the struggle for Western left wing media. Mandela did however oversee the rapid and sharp decline of SA into the sorry mess it is today.”

    Utter piffle. ! There were two choices open to de Clerk. The old ways or a different way. Most regrettably for you and the Broaderbond he chose the only sane way , pragmatism and realism.
    Your way belongs to your cesspit of history.
    The alternative was bloodshed

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  109. kiwi in america (2,314 comments) says:

    Don the Kiwi
    You are right about the food poisoning – a crucial fact that really decided the 96 RWC final that “Invictus” completely ignores. However South Africa were decidedly mediocre in the years leading up to the 96 World Cup after more than a decade of effective isolation from international rugby. That they made it to the final was a miracle and I believe that Mandela’s embracing of the game and putting his mana behind the team did lift them to the point where they beat teams along the way that enabled them to contest the final. As to whether the food poisoning was accidental or deliberate – well that’s in the ‘who shot JFK’ basket for me.

    Harriet
    The avoiding of civil war, whether intra or inter racial, was a vital achievement. If all Mandela did was smile and wave as you say, then that was preferable to his prior radicalism. South Africa is a mess – there is no denying that. But under Apartheid it was a mess, just suppressed under the jackboot of the Boer dominated police and army. I believe Mandela had good intentions and some of what he championed (the Truth and Reconciliation Commission) had enormous merit and was successful. But when you are the figurehead of a corrupt party then there are limits to what can be done. But bear in mind that it could’ve been a whole lot worse. Mandela could’ve emerged from jail embittered, angry and bent on revenge and he could’ve urged the black majority to turn on their former masters and extract even more destructive physical and financial retribution. It is hard to gauge what might have been. Mandela ought to be judged by that yardstick.

    Unfortunately he has become a mythical global symbol of peace, love and all that’s right in the world and so we will be force fed all kinds of revisionist history over the next few weeks as the left and the media engage in an orgy of hagiographic eulogizing

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  110. BlairM (2,340 comments) says:

    This is the other side of Mandela of course. It is what it is:

    http://www.censorbugbear.org/africa/south-africa/nobel-peace-laureate-nelson-mandelas-bombs-for-the-record

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  111. wat dabney (3,840 comments) says:

    The now-defunct apartheid system of South Africa presented a fascinating instance of interest-group competition for political advantage. In light of the extreme human rights abuses stemming from apartheid, it is remarkable that so little attention has been paid to the economic foundations of that torturous social structure. The conventional view is that apartheid was devised by affluent whites to suppress poor blacks. In fact, the system sprang from class warfare and was largely the creation of white workers struggling against both the black majority and white capitalists. Apartheid was born in the political victory of radical white trade unions over both of their rivals. In short, this cruelly oppressive economic system was socialism with a racist face.

    http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Apartheid.html

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  112. KevinH (1,253 comments) says:

    Back in 81 the tour dominated headlines, most people had an opinion one way or the other, if you can’t recall that time you were either to young to comprehend or plain stupid.
    I personally joined a march down Queen Street to protest against the tour, but once the tour commenced I became a spectator to some of the most violent protests I have ever witnessed in New Zealand. The game that was abandoned at Hamilton gave me an insight into how polarised the country had become and also demonstrated the political naivety of New Zealanders.
    The final test at Eden Park resembled a war zone, Police at one end , protesters at the other and what I saw that day was the ugly side of New Zealand where bigotry overwhelmed decency, I was ashamed of the actions of some of my fellow New Zealanders who used the day to assault peaceful protesters, especially the Police. It was a shameful chapter in New Zealand’s history.

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  113. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    This is how Mandela showed his gratitude to the Western whites that overthrew apartheid :

    Mandela’s sharp statements rarely cited in mainstream media

    “If there is a country that has committed unspeakable atrocities in the world, it is the United States of America. They don’t care for human beings,” Mandela said.

    “If you look at those matters, you will come to the conclusion that the attitude of the United States of America is a threat to world peace.”

    “From its earliest days, the Cuban Revolution has also been a source of inspiration to all freedom-loving people. We admire the sacrifices of the Cuban people in maintaining their independence and sovereignty in the face of the vicious imperialist-orchestrated campaign to destroy the impressive gain made in the Cuban Revolution….Long live the Cuban Revolution. Long live comrade Fidel Castro.”

    Mandela urged for the end to harsh UN sanctions imposed upon Libya in 1997, and pledged his support for Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, who was a longtime supporter of his.

    “It is our duty to give support to the brother leader…especially in regards to the sanctions which are not hitting just him, they are hitting the ordinary masses of the people … our African brothers and sisters,” Mandela said.

    “Israel should withdraw from all the areas which it won from the Arabs in 1967, and in particular Israel should withdraw completely from the Golan Heights, from south Lebanon and from the West Bank,” Mandela stated, according to the Jewish Telegraph Agency’s Suzanne Belling.

    http://rt.com/news/mandela-sharp-quotes-media-860/

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  114. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    The ANC’s guerrilla force, known as uMkhonto we Sizwe—MK, or “Spear of the Nation”—was founded in 1961 by Mandela and his advisor, the Lithuanian-born communist Jew Joe Slovo, born Yossel Mashel Slovo, who was officially named secretary general of the South African Communist Party in 1986.

    Slovo had been the planner of many of the ANC terrorist attacks, including the January 8, 1982 attack on the Koeberg nuclear power plant near Cape Town, the Church Street bombing on May 20, 1983, which killed 19 people, and the June 14, 1986 car-bombing of Magoo’s Bar in Durban, in which three people were killed and 73 injured.

    In the Rivonia Trial, which took place between 1963 and 1964, the defendants were tried for 221 acts of sabotage designed to overthrow the government and conspiring to aid foreign military units, when they invaded SA to further the objects of communism.

    The prosecutor, Percy Yutar said at the trial that “production requirements for munitions were sufficient to blow up a city the size of Johannesburg.”

    Escaping the death sentence, Mandela was given life in prison.

    By 1990, the communists behind Mandela had gained enough power to force his release. Apartheid was abolished in 1992 and the ANC was put into power in 1994 with Mandela as president. Slovo became his secretary of housing.

    Shortly thereafter, Mandela and Slovo, along with a group of ANC leaders, were filmed chanting a pledge to kill all whites in South Africa.

    Current South African President Jacob Zuma, also of the ANC, was also filmed as late as January 2012 singing a song called “Kill the Boer” in front of a crowd of thousands of blacks while they cheered and danced. The song advocates the murder of the descendents of the original white settlers of South Africa, with lyrics encouraging blacks to gun down the farmers with machine guns.

    – See more at: http://americanfreepress.net/?p=11873#sthash.kZmtniK5.dpuf

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  115. Rhodie (28 comments) says:

    It is a sad indictment on the way the standards of the modern world have deteriorated when someone who was nothing more a common criminal gets treated like royalty and idolised into demigod status. Had the correct sentence have been passed, this murderer would’ve hanged and the name “Mandela” would be nothing more than a mere statistic.

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  116. Scott1 (588 comments) says:

    Rhodie,
    Maybe – but that sort of system just doesn’t work. At some point (like in let’s say Iraq or Syria) Both sides have committed so many crimes they all “deserve to die” but good luck getting someone to carry out that sentence. Sometimes one has to just let people get away with things for pragmatic reasons.

    Fentex,
    Just because you might under certain circumstances behave in a certain way does not mean you think that that way is correct.
    We all know there is a certain times when we make better decisions than others, and certain levels of experience that could break us and cause us to act irrationally or immorally (like some hypothetical torture). That does not mean we disbelieve in rationality or morality.

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  117. Rhodie (28 comments) says:

    Scott1,
    Maybe you should go and meet the surviving relatives of some of their atrocities. Suffice to say I think your attitude would change rather radically.

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  118. kowtow (8,935 comments) says:

    Sorry TVNZ upstaged by the ever west hating Bised Bullshit Craperation.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/447043/BBC-newsreader-Huw-Edwards-holds-back-tears-as-he-breaks-news-of-Nelson-Mandela-s-death

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  119. kowtow (8,935 comments) says:

    The saga continues…….

    6 PM RNZ leads with the Deputy Mayor of Auckland had to pull over and cry when the news broke…….that led the broadcast!

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  120. Manolo (14,166 comments) says:

    @kowtow: You must be joking! Comrade Penny Hulse crying for Mandela? Pathetic.

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  121. kowtow (8,935 comments) says:

    Nope ,I shit not. Lead item @ 6 was about the S African born who could see Robbin Island daily from Cape town as a youngster……blah blah ,in car when she heard that the world had ended,so she had to pull over for a blub……

    fucking pathetic……the coverage,the adulation, the hype and lies….

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  122. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    All this fake grief over a guy who used to enjoy sing-songs with his friends about killing an ethnic minority.

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  123. big bruv (14,217 comments) says:

    “You are right about the food poisoning – a crucial fact that really decided the 96 RWC final that “Invictus” completely ignores”

    NEWSFLASH!!!

    Invictus was a movie, it was NOT about the NZ rugby team it was about Mandela.

    I do wish that NZ national rugby team fans would fucking get over themselves.

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  124. Yoza (1,926 comments) says:

    12 Mandela Quotes That Won’t Be In the Corporate Media Obituaries

    “A critical, independent and investigative press is the lifeblood of any democracy. The press must be free from state interference. It must have the economic strength to stand up to the blandishments of government officials. It must have sufficient independence from vested interests to be bold and inquiring without fear or favor. It must enjoy the protection of the constitution, so that it can protect our rights as citizens.”

    “If there is a country that has committed unspeakable atrocities in the world, it is the United States of America. They don’t care for human beings.”

    “The current world financial crisis also starkly reminds us that many of the concepts that guided our sense of how the world and its affairs are best ordered, have suddenly been shown to be wanting.”

    “Gandhi rejects the Adam Smith notion of human nature as motivated by self-interest and brute needs and returns us to our spiritual dimension with its impulses for nonviolence, justice and equality. He exposes the fallacy of the claim that everyone can be rich and successful provided they work hard. He points to the millions who work themselves to the bone and still remain hungry.”

    “There is no doubt that the United States now feels that they are the only superpower in the world and they can do what they like.”

    “It is said that no one truly knows a nation until one has been inside its jails. A nation should not be judged by how it treats its highest citizens, but its lowest ones.”

    “Overcoming poverty is not a task of charity, it is an act of justice. Like Slavery and Apartheid, poverty is not natural. It is man-made and it can be overcome and eradicated by the actions of human beings. Sometimes it falls on a generation to be great. YOU can be that great generation. Let your greatness blossom.”

    “We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians.”

    “No single person can liberate a country. You can only liberate a country if you act as a collective.”

    “If the United States of America or Britain is having elections, they don’t ask for observers from Africa or from Asia. But when we have elections, they want observers.”

    “When a man is denied the right to live the life he believes in, he has no choice but to become an outlaw.”

    On Gandhi: “From his understanding of wealth and poverty came his understanding of labor and capital, which led him to the solution of trusteeship based on the belief that there is no private ownership of capital; it is given in trust for redistribution and equalization. Similarly, while recognizing differential aptitudes and talents, he holds that these are gifts from God to be used for the collective good.”

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  125. big bruv (14,217 comments) says:

    OK…I am officially over the Mandela thing.

    Let the man rest in peace.

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  126. TimG_Oz (866 comments) says:

    A Mandela quote that Yoza and all of the other Left wingers still trapped in their own prison of hatred (Minto, Bradbury, McCarten) conveniently like to “forget”:

    “I cannot conceive of Israel withdrawing if Arab states do not recognize Israel, within secure borders.” — Nelson Mandela

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  127. Crusader (327 comments) says:

    My wife heard a radio announcer refer to the death of Nelson Mandela as a “tragedy”. No – he lived a long life, achieving great things, realising a dream for his country, gaining the respect of the world, and dying with his loved ones gathered around him at the age of 95. That is a wonderful, fortunate and meaningful life, not a tragedy. Millions of African children still dying needlessly from war, poverty and preventable disease all over the continent – that’s a tragedy.

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  128. Andronicus (219 comments) says:

    To me, there were three great figures of the 20th century: Gandhi, Churchill and Mandela. Gandhi chose the path of passive resistance and succeeded because he faced a relatively civilised opponent.

    Churchill and Mandela chose violence because it was the only language their closely related enemies understood.

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