Always about the money

January 11th, 2014 at 9:40 am by David Farrar

The Herald reports:

Visitors to the Bay of Islands this week were handed leaflets on the wharf at Paihia urging them not to take the famed trip to the Hole in the Rock at Motu Kokako, Piercy Island. The Motu Kokako Ahu Whenua Trust complains that the boat operators are not telling tourists the correct history of the island and its significance to Ngapuhi.

That is a legitimate complaint.

The trust also wants a payment for the attraction.

That isn’t.

Our mana is being trampled on by these operators,” said chairman Rau Hoskins.

But $3 a trip will heal that mana.

If the three companies running boats through the Hole in the Rock do not enter negotiations, the trust says, it will block the entrance in some way. “The idea that anyone can claim ownership of a natural waterway is foreign to most people in New Zealand and to its law. But it is not foreign to custom, as was evident in the foreshore and seabed claim and the challenge to the sale of hydro-power companies. It is an issue the country needs to resolve once and for all.

You can’t legislate away a difference of opinion. The legal status is clear however.

When Fullers had the attraction to itself, it agreed to pay a portion of each fare to the trust. When competition arrived, Fullers made common cause with the trust and took a rival operator to court on a claim of trespass. The case failed, the High Court ruling that access to open sea could not be impeded under maritime law. Fullers then stopped paying the trust.

Fair enough.

Rather than seeking rent from the resource, they could be running tours themselves. If none of the existing operators are giving visitors the island’s authentic story in the trust’s view, the trust has a golden opportunity. Not all tourists want an indigenous cultural experience but many do. The trust could obtain a suitable vessel and offer a trip clearly different from its competitors.

That is a good idea.

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47 Responses to “Always about the money”

  1. peterwn (3,144 comments) says:

    “The trust could obtain a suitable vessel and offer a trip clearly different from its competitors.”

    That concept would not be much different from DOC running tours in competition with concession holders. The idea of DOC running tours would please Labour-Green but upset those to the right.

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  2. RRM (9,428 comments) says:

    Just give it to the Maori ™.

    You know they deserve it.

    Why work when you can just get stuff given to you?

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  3. Ross Miller (1,661 comments) says:

    David … good post (and I say that as a Paihia resident). If local Maori want to set up their own operation with all the rewards (and risks) that attach to that then go2it. For Peterwin 8.49. Question … is it the core business of DoC to engage in competition with private enterprise and, if it is, how would you be sure their operation wasn’t being subsidised by the taxpayer? Answer … no and no.

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  4. dog_eat_dog (743 comments) says:

    You’re right, how dare anyone do something that might bring the price down in the tourism sector. We already know how much of a good deal tourists think they get here.

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  5. ManuT (34 comments) says:

    Once again contributors of nothing wanting a hand out. Just embarrassing.

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  6. skyblue (197 comments) says:

    Tell Sooty to f*%k off. You cannot own air and water surely.

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  7. holysheet (264 comments) says:

    The difference between the ngapuhi and the Ngaitahu, is that the latter get of their arse and do it, (re kaikoura whale watch tours) whereas the former just bitch and moan about it and expect everything for nothing. No wonder the rest of maoridom call them the “Brown bombers”
    No reference to Len Brown but he’s of ngapuhi decent isn’t he?

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  8. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    We once considered Keys famous Walkway and Cycle way idea just a big spend up.
    However after seeing what happens in the King Country with the tracks around Tauramanui and around Tongararo and then talking to the tourists from oversea’s who use these tracks one can see the potential that brings the tourists.
    They just luv them and in the King country the Pureora Tracks are as popular as can be with Kiwi’s as well.
    It has to be noted that the tracks invite new businesses, taking the tourists from the campsite to the track and picking them up at the end of the day. Apparently this is also happening in Wellington with the Rimatuka Track as well.

    Now the noteable thing is the the people who buy a bus, get out of bed and do the driving appear to be all white European Kiwi’s.
    Just saying.

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  9. dime (9,368 comments) says:

    This shit makes my blood boil.

    Fuck off you scabs

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  10. Manolo (13,327 comments) says:

    The usual suspects in thuggery, extortion, free handouts, and violence are back at it.

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  11. RF (1,263 comments) says:

    Stone agers at their best. No wonder this country is going to hell in a hand cart……. hang on a hand cart is something we introduced to the Maori. I bet their slaves were pleased. I have Kiwi mates who left NZ to get away from the greedy brown bombers.

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  12. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    When the hell is this Maori bludging going to cease. They have become a race of leeches, much akin to Labour supporters, so I suppose it is the fault of us that they are too tired to get off their arses, get a job, start a business, or work.

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  13. wreck1080 (3,725 comments) says:

    As bob jones puts it, Maori bludgers want money without working for it.

    Running an operation for themselves is out of the question when honkies can be extorted instead.

    The Maori will be on the hunt for more free money as treaty settlements get blown on cars booze and dodgy related party can’t go wrong business deals.

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  14. David Garrett (6,333 comments) says:

    On another recent thread there were several comments decrying what ACT had achieved between 2008 and 2011…In my view one of the greatest things we achieved was a specific ban on Maori charging for access to beaches over which they had gained some sort of customary title…From the Attorney General’s twisting and turning on the issue – he kept claiming there was a ban on charging in the draft Bill when there clearly was not – a little deal had been done with the Maori Party under which there was no specific prohibition on charging, so they could do so when the Bill passed, and claim there was nothing stopping them. ACT stymied that by insisting on a provision explicitly prohibiting charging for access to the sea – unless it was through private land, in which case of course the landowners – Maori or whoever – have a perfect right to charge anyone who wishes to cross that land.

    One of the last things I did before my career exploded was a tour of Northland talking about this very issue. At every meeting there was at least one person – often more than one – who had experienced Maori demands for payment to use “their” beach…and this before there was any legislative sanction for this at all! One can only imagine what would have happened if we had not forced that amendment.

    Holysheet has it dead right; if other iwi followed the Ngai Tahu model the need for handouts and bullshit like this present proposal would just die out…

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  15. David Garrett (6,333 comments) says:

    ..and it wasn’t just demands for money to use the beach we were hearing about…in two cases – involving two different beaches – money had been demanded from wedding parties who wanted to have photos taken with a “Maori beach” as a background…

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  16. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    It’s ironic how the normal right-wing regard for property owners gets flipped on its head to question who does the actual work.

    I also find it interesting that DPF thinks it’s legitimate to complain about the historical account of the island, but not legitimate to ask for payment on the pretense that one has a property right to such. The argument that the trust has a property claim seems at least debatable whereas I don’t see how anyone can have a right to dictate what others say or believe in relation to the island.

    It also seems absurd to say that restricting access to the hole is restricting access to the open sea. That interpretation seems to require a fair stretch of the imagination.

    All around an interesting question of the extent of property rights and the difficulty of applying broad principles to a specific question, but nothing much to get excited about. Unless of course it fulfills every prejudice you hold about “those people”. :)

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  17. David Garrett (6,333 comments) says:

    Ah, the shifty Weihana has joined us…so come right out and say it: do you support charging to go through “their” hole by “these people” or not?? Very simple question inviting an unequivocal answer…

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  18. duggledog (1,337 comments) says:

    So just today on KB we have this Hole In The Rock story; the 9 year old & his mum story, and the Tangata Whenua (mostly) protesting about drilling near OUR Maunga off the coast of New Plymouth story.

    I wonder whether Maori are alive to the thought that perhaps the sheer volume of negative stories associated with ‘their people’ day in, day out, year in, year out when they make up such a small percentage of the population is going to come back and bite them on the arse one day.

    You know, when ever more immigration renders their population % down to say 5%.

    No wonder there’s a drive by Maoridom to reproduce as much as possible, enshrine the Treaty into a constitution and have the language & culture taught compulsorily.

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  19. RF (1,263 comments) says:

    I regularly hear about Maori demanding payments / donations from us poor white folk who want to have access to beaches etc but it is only in the North Island. How come we never hear about this happening in the South Island. Is greed a tribal thing.

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  20. duggledog (1,337 comments) says:

    RF becos South Island beaches are av

    :)

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  21. kowtow (7,584 comments) says:

    As DG has alluded to ,the major political parties and indeed institutional Aotearoa ,be it gummint depts,local government,the courts (unspecified treaty principles)churches and all manner of NGOs or whatevers are all complicit in this brown mailing that has become an unfortunate feature of Aotearoa ,formerly New Zealand.

    It is long past time for only one clear standard of citizenship in New Zealand.

    Sadly that won’t happen and it will only get worse.

    ps re ngai Tahu Why do they have anymore or less say or consultation than any other citizen or itizen group?And what is a “mitigation package”,a bribe for support?

    http://www.odt.co.nz/regions/north-otago/287430/runanga-supports-offshore-exploration-oil-and-gas

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  22. RightNow (6,646 comments) says:

    Weihana: “It also seems absurd to say that restricting access to the hole is restricting access to the open sea. That interpretation seems to require a fair stretch of the imagination.”

    And yet that was the high court ruling. How about that?

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  23. Manolo (13,327 comments) says:

    When the hell is this Maori bludging going to cease.

    Never. Unfortunately, the “warrior gene” is taking them on an endless downward spiral.

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  24. Johnboy (14,911 comments) says:

    Murri have always expected Pakeha to pay for them when their holes get filled.

    I see nothing different in this particular occasion.

    Look upon it as an extension of the DPB! :)

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  25. Manolo (13,327 comments) says:

    Beefeaters tonight, JB?

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  26. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    David Garrett (4,537 comments) says:
    January 11th, 2014 at 1:43 pm

    Ah, the shifty Weihana has joined us…so come right out and say it: do you support charging to go through “their” hole by “these people” or not?? Very simple question inviting an unequivocal answer…

    I don’t see why I should consider it a simple question because you believe it should be. I am inclined to support them and although I’m not 100% sure of where the boundaries should be drawn between private property and customary title, I have no qualms about admitting sympathies with their claim. I would make no secret that I believe many here are racist bigots… whom no doubt have good friends who are Maori. :)

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  27. Johnboy (14,911 comments) says:

    Gordon’s old chap! :)

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  28. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    RightNow (5,990 comments) says:
    January 11th, 2014 at 4:42 pm

    And yet that was the high court ruling. How about that?

    Well given that high court rulings are handed down by the almighty himself I suppose I must be wrong.

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  29. jp_1983 (184 comments) says:

    well if they ‘blockade’ the seas, that will be an act of piracy and well I guess we can treat them as pirates…

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  30. snowy (106 comments) says:

    Bludgers. Pure and simple

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  31. Scott Chris (5,870 comments) says:

    If there was a cave under my house I think I’d feel entitled to charge admittance.

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  32. nasska (10,622 comments) says:

    ….”If there was a cave under my house I think I’d be entitled to charge admittance.”….

    Those who live in houses built above various motorway tunnels will be delighted to find that they now have an extra source of income. :)

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  33. Scott Chris (5,870 comments) says:

    It’s ironic how the normal right-wing regard for property owners gets flipped on its head to question who does the actual work.

    He shoots, he scores!!

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  34. Manolo (13,327 comments) says:

    Yes, Scott. Cavemen are entitled to it. It sounds just.

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  35. Scott Chris (5,870 comments) says:

    Those who live in houses built above various motorway tunnels will be delighted to find that they now have an extra source of income.

    Quite. Not sure if there are any houses above tunnels though. I suspect the land above is purchased by the government.

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  36. Scott Chris (5,870 comments) says:

    Oh and Nasska, just suppose you had a nice bit of oil under your farm.

    Like to see your face when the gummint barges in and sells it from under you :)

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  37. nasska (10,622 comments) says:

    Scott Chris

    From memory what is under the ground in NZ has always belonged to the Government. If a mineral discovery is made usually a landowner is in a fairly good position & gets bought out at market valuation but your title only covers the actual surface of your property.

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  38. Tautaioleua (281 comments) says:

    “Our mana is being trampled on” – Rau Hoskins. Yeah, because Hoskins is a real Maori surname.

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  39. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    wow, imagine what Leeny and the auckland ratepayers will be up for when he drills his railway under the Whatua estate.

    Hawke will die with a grin from ear to arsehole.

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  40. Chuck Bird (4,668 comments) says:

    “No reference to Len Brown but he’s of ngapuhi decent isn’t he?”

    @hholysheet

    have you got a reference for that?

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  41. deadrightkev (273 comments) says:

    “The difference between the ngapuhi and the Ngaitahu, is that the latter get of their arse and do it, (re kaikoura whale watch tours) whereas the former just bitch and moan about it and expect everything for nothing.”

    You clearly know little about Ngaitahu who numbered about 2400 people in small coastal areas, did not sign the ToW and yet have managed to con gutless politicians into giving them half of NZ. Ngaitahu didn’t earn the money they have been given so anyone can succeed on that basis. It is a similar story for the rest of Maoridom.

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  42. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    nasska (8,579 comments) says:
    January 11th, 2014 at 7:11 pm

    Scott Chris

    From memory what is under the ground in NZ has always belonged to the Government.

    I think this line of inquiry misses the point. What has “always” been the case can be changed by simple passage of legislation by the government of the day. The fact that rules and standards exist does not necessarily imply some inherent fairness (although the majority that devises those rules will always think them fair).

    It is worth considering why Maori are interested in rivers and lakes and beaches and holes in rocks: the reason is that after a long history of confiscations and not recognizing their interests (or even that they are equal human beings) there is little else left to claim.

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  43. jcuk (577 comments) says:

    It is sad that Weihana has grown up with such a chip on his shoulder when other Maori have got their A into G and successfully compete on the national and international stage ….I am a whitie who was very happy to work with/for one of them and maintain a professional respect for him.

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  44. smttc (689 comments) says:

    My family and I went out there on the Mack Attack last Saturday with Explore which I had been told was a Maori venture and it certainly felt like it. We were given a seemingly knowledgeable narration of the history and significance of the marine area and cape brett as well as a visual experience.

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  45. MH (624 comments) says:

    This hole is a danger to Afthowmorepork go girl warming. What happens if the water gets in it ? What will happen to sea levels then. It’s best if it gets filled in and passengers can get more visual experience time on the water than taking short cuts by unholy tourist operators. Looking back, I bet there’s nothing on the other side anyways.

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  46. itstricky (1,537 comments) says:

    Ah, the shifty Weihana has joined us…so come right out and say it: do you support charging to go through “their” hole by “these people” or not?? Very simple question inviting an unequivocal answer…

    I don’t see why I should consider it a simple question because you believe it should be.

    Ah, the shifty Garrett has left us…

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  47. itstricky (1,537 comments) says:

    One of the last things I did before my career exploded was a tour of Northland talking about this very issue. At every meeting there was at least one person – often more than one – who had experienced Maori demands for payment to use “their” beach…and this before there was any legislative sanction for this at all! One can only imagine what would have happened if we had not forced that amendment.

    Yes, case I’m thinking about, it wasn’t unusual for the locals to ask for 50c to visit the beach. Big deal. The beach was looked after, and continues to be. You make it sound like some sort of major imposition. I know of plenty of private owners who would pull out the shotgun before letting you land your boat anywhere near their haven… …never mind the 50c visit.

    ..and it wasn’t just demands for money to use the beach we were hearing about…in two cases – involving two different beaches – money had been demanded from wedding parties who wanted to have photos taken with a “Maori beach” as a background…

    That almost sounds like the green eyed monster.

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