Even racists shouldn’t be banned

January 13th, 2014 at 1:00 pm by David Farrar

The Herald reports:

In a move with no precedent in recent French history, the socialist Government of President Francois Hollande last week secured approval in a top court to preventatively ban a show by a man it characterises as the “pedlar of hate”.

The target for the wrath is a so-called alternative comedian, Dieudonne M’bala M’bala, who specialises in crude jokes about Jews.

I love jokes about Jews – so long as the jokes are motivated by humour, not hatred. The intention is key.

He clearly hates Jews. He recently said that when he thinks of a prominent French Jewish radio journalist he thinks “Gas chambers … too bad”.

However trying to ban his shows is not the way to go It increases his fringe popularity. If he breaks the law he can be held accountable for that (and has been), but pro-active banning of a performance is a bad precedent.

The show that was outlawed had been in preview performances, where it included a sketch in which the comedian pretends to urinate against a wall, and then reveals it is the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem, the holiest site in Judaism.

I’d just reflect that if he did a show which includes him urinating on The Koran, he would probably be dead by now.

 

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33 Responses to “Even racists shouldn’t be banned”

  1. Longknives (4,767 comments) says:

    “I’d just reflect that if he did a show which includes him urinating on The Koran, he would probably be dead by now.”

    Yep- Nobody would dare….
    Though Ozzy Osbourne did urinate on the Alamo- The Holiest site in Texas!

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  2. RRM (9,933 comments) says:


    He recently said that when he thinks of a prominent French Jewish radio journalist he thinks “Gas chambers … too bad”.

    Antisemitism or not, he just doesn’t sound particularly funny… although Kyle Chapman & his mates probably have copies of all his DVDs at their land base?

    Incidentally, is Judaism a race, or a religion?

    (I ask, because that distinction comes up more or less every time Islam is discussed on here.)

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  3. Jaffa (94 comments) says:

    He would be gone in a couple of shakes!

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  4. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    “Though Ozzy Osbourne did urinate on the Alamo- The Holiest site in Texas!”

    true, but thats Ozzy. he can do what he wants :)

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  5. Nigel Kearney (1,019 comments) says:

    You expect this from France but the real problem is that previously civilized nations like England are also showing signs of heading in this direction.

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  6. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    I’d just reflect that if he did a show which includes him urinating on The Koran, he would probably be dead by now.

    Only because Muslims don’t have the political power to have him censored.

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  7. stephen2d (83 comments) says:

    “You expect this from France but the real problem is that previously civilized nations like England are also showing signs of heading in this direction.”

    @Nigel: You are a bit thick, aren’t you…

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  8. smttc (752 comments) says:

    Gee Tom, so a lack of political power entitles the powerless to commit murder. Wow.

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  9. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Gee Tom, so a lack of political power entitles the powerless to commit murder. Wow.

    Did I say that?

    No.

    Six of the best for you.

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  10. iMP (2,387 comments) says:

    RRM “Jewishness” is not a race, mainly because Jews had their country and nationhood destroyed and were denied a place to live, a country, for almost 2000 years (Israel was artifically renamed Palestina” by the Romans as punishment, after Jewish historic enemies, a bit like calling Poland “Hitlerland”), so they were forced to move into other countries to become Europeans, Arabs, Turks, Australians etc. Uniquely, they have retained their Jewish identity all that time despite speaking different languages and having different cultures.

    It would be like NZers having NZ destroyed and being kicked out, forbidden to return, for 2000 years. We would be NZers, but also Aussies, Brits, Argentinians etc.

    Judaism is the Religion (not all Jews practice) but they are still defined by it.
    Jewish is religio-ethnic (but Ethiopians are also “jewish”). It is a cultural/historic epithet.
    Israeli is a new phenomenon since 1940s and includes Christians, Jews, Arabs and others.

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  11. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Antisemitism or not, he just doesn’t sound particularly funny… although Kyle Chapman & his mates probably have copies of all his DVDs at their land base?

    He started off as a pro-Palestinian activist. Lately, he’s been going off the deep end. I’m not sure whether it is serious or an elaborate prank to expose how politically motivated censorship operates in France.

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  12. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    It would be like NZers having NZ destroyed and being kicked out, forbidden to return, for 2000 years. We would be NZers, but also Aussies, Brits, Argentinians etc.

    No. It’s like me claiming to be a Celt because I had a Celtic Ancestor 500 generations ago.

    Silly religions are silly.

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  13. kowtow (8,524 comments) says:

    Fuck,can’t get much more offensive than an extremist Froggie nigger.

    Nope the objectionable bantu should not be banned for making offensive remarks.

    Freedom of expression is too important a right in our fast disappearing democracies.

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  14. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Freedom of expression is too important a right in our fast disappearing democracies.

    If it is a prank (and I’m leaning slightly towards it not being – he does seem to be a bit of a lunatic after all), his point is not that it is legal, but social and political censorship. It’s more prevalent in the US than France, but the price of being outspoken about some ethnic groups rather than others differs radically depending on the group. For example, everyone knows that anyone can say stuff about white people with little fear of professional or social ostracism, but criticising blacks is a riskier proposition and criticising Jews or Israel is usually to commit professional suicide as Rick Sanchez and Helen Thomas recently discovered. The reason for that being that American Jews essentially are the establishment now.

    http://mondoweiss.net/2010/05/kagan-appointment-shows-jews-are-the-new-wasps.html

    We don’t have this sort of cutthroat ethnic politics in NZ, although it’s heading the same way with people who make “politically incorrect” public statements.

    The powerful in our society are those with the social and political power to punish others for speaking their minds. Having a legal right to free speech is useless if you can’t protect yourself from retaliation by the powerful.

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  15. Harriet (4,990 comments) says:

    Anyone can retaliate to jokes with truth – and that is what Hollande and the socialists don’t want – Jews pointing out the bloody obvious all day long everyday!

    They simply want to shut down all arguement.

    Mainstream France -and even Germany too for that matter- won’t take up this sort of racism as the Jews arn’t raping the women, beating the homos, placing sacks over all females, cutting the ‘excitable bits of little girls’ or pillaging the welfare state. Or killing the police – the long arm of French law.

    That’s the French Muslims.

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  16. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    Gee Tom, so a lack of political power entitles the powerless to commit murder. Wow.

    Did I say that?

    No.

    Well, actually, in a way you did exactly that.

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  17. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Nigel Kearney posted at 1.24:

    You expect this from France but the real problem is that previously civilized nations like England are also showing signs of heading in this direction.

    King Edward 1 expelled the Jews from England in 1290 and they weren’t officially allowed to live there again until the very short lived  Jewish Naturalisation Act of 1753. According to Wikipedia, British Jews weren’t fully emancipated in “every walk of life” until 1890.

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  18. RRM (9,933 comments) says:

    Well, actually, in a way you did exactly that.

    No, he really really didn’t say entitles murder.

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  19. EAD (1,129 comments) says:

    The reason terms like “racists” and “anti-semitism” are bandied about is to create an emotional response (left side of the brain) that discourages any thoughtful, considered response to a vaild question. As a thought experiment, how come there are no demonising term like “anti-gentile”?

    Here is my rational response (and a bit of background) which is missed above is that M’bala has been in the news recently because Nicolas Anelka did the “quenelle” sign after scoring a goal for West Bromich last month and created a huge media storm. The quenelle symbol was created by M’bala as a populist protest against “the system”, particulary the monetary system which many in France believe is controlled for the benefit of Jewish interests.

    French distaste of the usurious monetary system has a long history well before even Napolean Bonaparte who famously quoted:
    “When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.”

    The same people who applaud the use of the “quenelle” also believe that the reason the Nazi regime is so demonized out of proportion to the murderous Soviets/Communists in China and that war against Germany was inevitable was that Hitler showed the world what economic miracles an honest non-debt-based currency could inspire. This, the International masters of “the system” could not permit. If the example became widely understood by the other Western nations, their global Ponzi scheme would have gone kaput.

    Even Baron Mayer Rothschild himself famously described the influence of “the system”:
    “I care not what puppet is placed on the throne of England to rule the Empire, …The man that controls Britain’s money supply controls the British Empire. And I control the money supply”

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  20. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    It’s almost insane to argue as EAD mentions:’

    …war against Germany was inevitable was that Hitler showed the world what economic miracles an honest non-debt-based currency could inspire…

    Just ask the Czechs, or Poles, or Russians.

    It’s stupid to attack the Jews over French banking. In France, minority Protestants, survivors of the persecuted Huguenots, have been probably the leading factor in banking. Swiss banking, some of the world’s best, also has been pioneered by Protestants from the French-ethnic part of the country.

    The Calvinist tradition of French-Swiss Protestant theology may be a factor. A Calvinist thread also ran through Scots Presbyterianism, and from that milieu came Adam Smith and many great capitalists in Britain (such as the founder of the Bank of England) and America (Dale Carnegie). The work ethnic and delayed gratification of Calvinism (as in Confucianism) is a good intellectual environment for capitalism, and hooray for that.

    Jews like the Rothschilds were also prominent in capitalism partly because some countries barred them from occupation after occupation, but were happy for them to look after banking, which was looked down upon, and frowned upon by old Catholics and Anglicans because of prejudice about interest on money being artificial because “natural increase” should be reserved for animals.

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  21. SPC (5,644 comments) says:

    I am awaiting reports of a Jewish comedian in Paris wearing a chador making a quenelle gesture from his groin area when discussing reports of the French Presidents mistress.

    So that when asked to comment about his offence to Moslems he can say it was just an inverted …. of a Moslem woman. So he can finish by saying it is not only Moslem comedians who have the right to be a complete ….. under free speech rights.

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  22. cha (4,036 comments) says:

    And guess who’s a fan.

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/12/general_debate_20_december_2013.html#comment-1251453

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  23. SPC (5,644 comments) says:

    EAD, both Moslems and Christian nations banned usury – thus those who required a loan and were prepared to pay for this had recourse to Jewish lenders.

    Napoleon “When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.”

    He sounds like every leader of a nation that expels the Jewish people to expel the Jewish lenders. What he was doing was writing off France’s national debt and expelling those whose money had been used by the former French governments. It was a practice across Europe to welcome these Jews after they had been expelled from another nation – the King’s terms were that they provide the King with a loan. Later after the loan has been increased many times the Jews were then expelled once again. The loans were a form of free money to the nation state – a form of tax for Jews being allowed in the country. The Jews had to made their own money off loans to other borrowers in the country, not the loans to the government.

    Many attacks on Jewish ghettos were attempts to destroy the evidence of a loan debt.

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  24. Bob R (1,377 comments) says:

    France seems to be running close with the UK for speech control totalitarianism.

    Generally, getting banned is a good career move for entertainers – who would have heard of this guy if he hadn’t been banned? Will be interesting to see whether he gets banned in other places.

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  25. SPC (5,644 comments) says:

    On the Jews as a race thing.

    Moslems in Europe regard attacks on Islam and Moslem immigrants as race hate speech as it comes from Europeans (most of whom are not Moslems). The term anti-Semitism refers to an non European people and a non European religion with an origin outside of Europe – as in most Europeans are not of this religion. The irony, as European Christianity had a Jewish source, is profound.

    Peoples of all races are of the Jewish, Christian and Moslem religion.

    However Jewish identity is distinct in that it is not solely based on religion, it is an identity of a people that did not become Christian or Moslem when other national peoples did. It is the decision of this people to remain with their Jewish identity intact that has offended those of the two other religions with ambitions to convert the world.

    The “national” peoples identity is based on having a Jewish mother. Thus identity is like that for an iwi, having a Jewish ancestor. At the time of this policy began the presumption was that a Jewish father would decide who his daughter married. Thus if not a Jew, then the husband provided some value to the family and or the religion. In the diaspora, a local contact of worth.

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  26. cha (4,036 comments) says:

    Many attacks on Jewish ghettos were attempts to destroy the evidence of a loan debt.

    Nah, an old chestnut to excuse the Christian practice of blood libel.

    Thomas’ account possibly formed the basis of the summary of the event in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles which were written just after 1155. They are important because they record the first accusation against Jews in the Middle Ages. The extract reads:

    In King Stephen’s time, the Jews of Norwich bought a Christian child before Easter and tortured him with all the torture that our Lord was tortured with; and on Good Friday hanged him on a cross on account of our Lord, and then buried him. They expected it would be concealed, but our Lord made it plain that he was a holy martyr, and the monks took him and buried him with ceremony in the monastery, and through our Lord he works wonderful and varied miracles, and he is called Saint William.

    http://www.jhse.org/node/44?page=0%2C0

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  27. SPC (5,644 comments) says:

    cha, no – someone with a loan debt would try and mobilise a local Christian mob to destroy a ghetto. The so called religious hate crime was often just a pretext that any local with connections could orchestrate.

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  28. EAD (1,129 comments) says:

    Just for your reference less I be misrepresented, I am a great admirer of the Jewish people – a group of people who have contributed more to civilization on a per capita basis than any other group in history. I’m just against the fraudulent money system that we currently use that allows banks to create “money” out of thin air and lend it as a debt. Aside from the questionable morality of this, it is also a form of wealth confiscation from everyone who holds money as investment. In polite terms we call this theft “inflation” or as opposition politicians call it “a cost of living crisis”.

    http://mises.org/daily/6314/Banking-and-the-State

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  29. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    EAD posted at 6.38:

    I’m just against the fraudulent money system that we currently use that allows banks to create “money” out of thin air and lend it as a debt…

    Oh, oh, a Social Credit enthusiast.

    Social Credit IMHO has been accurately described as currency crankism. According to the article below, it’s been taken up by many in the Green movement. Founder Douglas seems to have also brought anti-Semitism into his anti-bank philosophy.

    http://www.worldsocialism.org/articles/major_douglas_rides_again.php

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  30. SPC (5,644 comments) says:

    Jack5, its the anti-fiat money argument. The return to the gold standard etc.

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  31. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    SPC, I didn’t know Social Crediters wanted a return to the gold standard.

    I thought they just wanted to nationalise fiat money, and finance all dreams into reality with their “social” credit. Utopian nonsense, of course. How it could possibly match supply of goods and services with near-infinite demand puzzles me.

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  32. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Whoops! In my 5.13 post I cited “Dale Carnegie” as an example of a Scots Presbyterian capitalist. I meant, of course, to say “Andrew Carnegie”.

    Nothing wrong with Dale Carnegie’s tips on how to interact with people, but Andrew Carnegie, the steel tycoon, was the man I had in mind.

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  33. SPC (5,644 comments) says:

    Jack5, EAD is not making a Social Credit argument, he is arguing against fiat money.

    The Social Credit argument was of the Gold standard era and pre the fiat money expansion by the banking system – they believed their should be more money and the extra amount issued by the state (an amount identified by some equation).

    He is arguing against any expansion of the money supply.

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