General Debate 18 January 2014

January 18th, 2014 at 9:19 am by David Farrar
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234 Responses to “General Debate 18 January 2014”

  1. iMP (2,422 comments) says:

    Dear Chris. Process this ,,

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  2. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11188341

    After 2 plus years of Auckland Housing stories it appears that cycling is the Heralds new obsession, something like 14 cycling pieces this past week.

    An advocacy rag that is clearly driven by someone with an agenda – as the circulation comes tumbling down

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  3. Chuck Bird (4,929 comments) says:

    Gone too soon: Kids who died at hands of parents

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11188259

    I hope this tragedy where some arsehole who hated his ex more than he loved his children make things still worse for the majority of good fathers who are separated like happened with the knee jerk legislate after the Bristol murder/suicide.

    Also not from the article that there are a number of mother who do the same but there is not near the media coverage and when their is the father is often blamed is some way.

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  4. Pete George (23,688 comments) says:

    A novel idead – A Nation of Opportunity

    This year is election year and Labour will be bringing a message of hope to New Zealand.

    In this speech, I’ll lay out how Labour will create opportunities for every New Zealander, no matter who they are or where they were born.

    I’ll be talking about an economy that works for all of us – one where every Kiwi can get ahead, and where no one is left behind.

    This marks the start of our election year journey towards building a better New Zealand together. I hope to see you there.

    http://yournz.org/2014/01/17/cunliffe-cringe/

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  5. flipper (4,241 comments) says:

    MEMO for Nasska….

    Apropos our recent debate on the Wairarapa constituency…what I knew, and what I could not, nor would, leak, is mentioned by Small in the Dom Post today.

    But anyone who thinks that the owner of the absentee owner if the Matahiwi Winery is a certainty for selection has been listening to his out of town PR folk.

    Cheers
    F

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  6. Manolo (14,086 comments) says:

    Slamming the Messiah: http://www.nationaljournal.com/white-house/obama-s-nsa-proposals-fall-far-short-of-real-change-20140117

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  7. Viking2 (11,580 comments) says:

    PEB. They don’t walk alone.

    Estimates on the number of people using television (PUTS) – fell in the second half of last year, although the ad rates remained buoyant.

    The problem facing TVNZ is that there is little point in its existence other than its own survival. It has neither embraced public good broadcasting nor succeeded in making serious profits. News and current affairs standards slumped with the only positive signs being changes to TV One’s ill-fated Seven Sharp.

    Unlikely as well.

    so the media industry is being beat up.

    So is Yellow who, for advertising, are now essentially irrelevant despite their crap to the contrary.
    People just google or use Trademe.
    The only part of newsprint that works and is growing is the likes of the Weekend Sun and some other freebie weeklys. .

    The internet has cleaned them out and as it develops more will clean out the music moguls as well. Performers simply don’t need them anymore as Lorde has demonstrated. Music today is as temporary and fickle as news.

    The sooner we get better Braodband the better. (ah, maybe that is who has been opposing a new cable. yeah,nah. Its the paranoid schizo’s at the FBI. I’m mean you have to be one to join.)

    Off topic but I see the Black Power of One has now banned evesdropping on his freinds. Yeh right Tui says!

    President Barack Obama has banned US eavesdropping on the leaders of close friends and allies and begun reining in the vast collection of Americans’ phone data.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/9624585/Obama-bans-leader-eavesdropping

    Perhaps we could follow the trend or perhaps we could decide publicly and for Kiwi’s what we consider acceptable, recognising all the while that there are some out there that need white coats and they are coming to get us.

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  8. Keeping Stock (10,443 comments) says:

    National’s rejuvenation continues, with John Hayes accepting that he’s not going to survive a challenge for his seat and retiring. John Key has managed to turn over more than 20% of his caucus without a murmur.

    How jealous must David Cunliffe be? He knows that if he puts the squeeze on the likes of Goff, Mallard or King the ABC club will come back to life. So Labour’s caucus will be the same old same old. Oh dear; how sad; never mind :D

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/01/the-rejuvenation-continues.html

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  9. Viking2 (11,580 comments) says:

    Read that flipper. I thoiught oh no not another fucking currency trader.

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  10. Viking2 (11,580 comments) says:

    fouind it for u.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9623509/Wairarapa-MP-Hayes-calls-time

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  11. Reid (16,640 comments) says:

    Useful overview for those who don’t already know

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  12. kowtow (8,784 comments) says:

    Opportunities?

    Here’s a good article on the need for same and yet Labour oppose traditional labour activities like mining ,drilling etc.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/opinion/288567/new-zealand-selling-its-young-people-short

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  13. Pete George (23,688 comments) says:

    Chuck – yes, that’s one of the side issues from anyone who acts despicably, any repercussions can have an impact on many people in far milder or non-threatening situations.

    Also not from the article that there are a number of mother who do the same but there is not near the media coverage and when their is the father is often blamed is some way.

    A remarkable claim using this case as an example. How many women kill their kids to spite their ex? Pretty much none, this seems a male problem and about as bad as you can get, killing your kids to punish their mother for giving them the boot. And in this case it’s hard to criticise a woman for not wanting anything to do with a man like that.

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  14. flipper (4,241 comments) says:

    Vikling …

    Yep Scott thinks he is a certainty…… BUT ??????

    Keeping…

    You have been listening to false prophets..

    The fellow, on his third marriage, who visits the Wairarapa, and says he will reside outside the Wairarapa (because of his children) if he secures the nomination, will need to build a team of on the ground volunteer workers.

    As others, including the labour lawyer, Bott,. and now the TAB bookie, McAnulty, have found, an electorate the size of the State of Israel, requires more than a PR firm, or a few union thugs and students. It requires committed volunteers, and lots of them. They will have to be motivated, and they get pissed off when folk start to make assumptions before selection, and sell snakeoil.

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  15. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    Prof Brian Cox, former keyboard player for D:Ream -“Things Can Only Get Better” – captures some ancient light rays on his digital camera.

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  16. Keeping Stock (10,443 comments) says:

    @ flipper – I make no comment on Scott, other than that he had signalled an intention to challenge Hayes, and Hayes blinked first. At 65, and not having advanced beyond the back bench in three terms as an MP, who would blame him?

    And the choice of Kieran McAnulty as Labour’s candidate is interesting, given Labour taking the moral high ground on problem gambling and Sky City. Then again, given that senior Labour saw nothing wrong with being entertained by Sky City at Eden Park last year, nothing that the Labour Party does surprises me any more.

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  17. Odakyu-sen (755 comments) says:

    A terrible crime in Dunedin, what what could any spouse reasonable do to protect themselves from such a lunatic? The Herald article blames the system (the implication being a stronger, more invasive system, with more funding is the answer).

    Hypothetically, if you were faced with a similar situation, what could you do to mitigate the risk? (Apart from fleeing when the other party turned up.)

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  18. Chuck Bird (4,929 comments) says:

    “Hypothetically, if you were faced with a similar situation, what could you do to mitigate the risk?”

    Have the house alarmed set when you go to bed and buy a gun.

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  19. OneTrack (3,237 comments) says:

    Pete re Cunliffe “In this speech, I’ll lay out how Labour will create opportunities for every New Zealander, no matter who they are or where they were born.”

    And it starts with Labour and the Greens taxing and regulating the bejesus out of the productive sector. What GFC – those SMEs are just “rich pricks” ™ with swimming pools of money under their mansions. They will be made to give it to “us”. That would be “fair” ™.

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  20. Chuck Bird (4,929 comments) says:

    “How many women kill their kids to spite their ex? Pretty much none, this seems a male problem and about as bad as you can get, killing your kids to punish their mother for giving them the boot.”

    PG, have you any proof of that aside from the bias view feminist sociologists?

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  21. flipper (4,241 comments) says:

    Keeping…
    You know NOT what you are talking about.
    There was no blinking by Hayes. It was long planned, as several electorate members previously knew, but did not say..
    And Scott will NOT be the only one seeking the nomination.
    At least two others, with long term Wairarapa NP involvement are in the mix, As will be one rural based list MP.

    The so called “moral high ground” on Sky city cuts no ice in the Wairarapa, and apart from the usual bunch of unionists and students, McAnulty has no volunteer base. He is actually advertising to try and establish a base.

    So KS, please take your imagination elsewhere. :-)

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  22. Keeping Stock (10,443 comments) says:

    I bow to your superior and insider knowledge flipper :D

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  23. flipper (4,241 comments) says:

    Keeping…
    Apols…misread your final para.

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  24. Reid (16,640 comments) says:

    US Circuit Appeals Court rules against net neutrality.

    http://www.activistpost.com/2014/01/net-neutrality-dies-is-free-and-open.html

    Colorado update.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/weird-news/everything-was-funny-cnn-reporter-gets-high-during-colorado-marijuana-legalisation-report-9060629.html

    Syria update.

    http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/01/16/345909/syria-hit-by-saudisponsored-crisis/

    Farage update. Those who don’t think the media are controlled should ask themselves why we have heard so little about Iceland, which by contrast to Greece, imprisoned the bankers, threw out the govt and re-wrote the constitution. And it’s doing fine.

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  25. Scott Chris (6,177 comments) says:

    After 2 plus years of Auckland Housing stories it appears that cycling is the Heralds new obsession, something like 14 cycling pieces this past week.

    It’s called recycling.

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  26. Pete George (23,688 comments) says:

    Your made the initial assertion Chuck, you come up with the evidence. Mothers do kill their kids, an Australian study found that nearly as many did as men, but I think men are far more likely to do it out of spite as a result of their loss of power in a relationship. Mothers will have different reasons.

    Gone too soon: Kids who died at hands of parents

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  27. bc (1,377 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird @ 9.42am
    What a prat – using a shocking murder as an example of a perceived media bias.

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  28. bhudson (4,741 comments) says:

    KS,

    Don’t be so hasty. Spin is not within the purview of one side only

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  29. Snarkle (118 comments) says:

    Here’s an idea. Let’s start an on-line CIR. Assault on a visitor to our country= automatic strike offence. Ignorance of the visitor’s status no defence.

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  30. peterwn (3,314 comments) says:

    Odakyu-sen – In the old days, he would probably have been certified and locked up in Seacliffe for life.

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  31. Odakyu-sen (755 comments) says:

    Thanks for the comments, Chuck.
    So far, we have:

    – Buy a firearm (or have some other useable weapon handy)
    – Alarm the house

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  32. F E Smith (3,307 comments) says:

    And in other news…

    An interesting post from The Defence Brief (an English legal blog) today.  In NZ a person who successfully defends a criminal charge is generally not awarded their costs.  It means that defending a criminal case can bankrupt a person and is why legal aid is sought so often. 

    In the UK, it used to be that a successful defendant was awarded costs, using the same principle as in the civil courts that an unsuccessful claimant should compensate the successful defendant for requiring them to engange counsel, etc.

    But, many people make an economic decision to plead guilty even when they have a defence.  I have seen more often than I like.  Anyway, here is most of the story:

    In today’s case, this defence was wide open to my client.  I won’t bore you with the full details but essentially the client states that he was out drinking with his girlfriend and friends.  She let slip that she had been sleeping with somebody else behind his back and in a drunken fit of emotion he returned to his car, punched it once or twice then sat in it smoking for about 15-20 minutes after which time the police arrived and arrested him for being drunk in charge.  Police attended as somebody saw him punch the car and calling the police thinking he was a vandal.

    Now, whether you believe him or not is irrelevant because we don’t know if it’s true or not; all we know is that he insists that it is the truth and that his account gives him a defence.

    He decided to plead guilty, not because he accepts that he was going to drive but because he took a commercial decision that the cost of fighting and winning the trial was greater than the cost of pleading guilty at the earliest opportunity.

    Under the old system, a defendant who wins his trial would have had all of his reasonably incurred costs reimbursed from central funds (which are the Government’s pot of cash for paying out legal costs in cases they lose a case).  The new system; however, limits the amount of money that a defendant who is acquitted of all criminal allegations can expect to get back.

    In this case, the defendant decided that the risk of not getting his money back following a successful trial outweighed the consequences of pleading guilty, losing his driving licence for up to six-months and accepting his first criminal conviction.

    I can’t be the only one who thinks that the purpose of the criminal justice system is, as the Overriding Objective in the Criminal Procedure Rules says, to convict the guilty and acquit the innocent.  It’s one thing for a business to make commercial decisions whether to defend a case against themselves in the civil courts entirely on the money but it is not how the criminal courts should be run… not in my opinion at least.

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  33. peterwn (3,314 comments) says:

    Snarkle – most of the assaults on overseas visitors are ‘strike’ offences anyway since they also involve robbery. A third strike for this is 14 years in prison which has the crim huggers all outraged.

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  34. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird (4,215 comments) says:

    January 18th, 2014 at 10:27 am

    “Hypothetically, if you were faced with a similar situation, what could you do to mitigate the risk?”

    Have the house alarmed set when you go to bed and buy a gun.”

    Change the bloody locks! She didn’t even change the locks. He had a key and walked straight in.

    For three months his mates and the cops were aware that he was threatening to kill his kids to get back at her. Did he have a firearms licence and if not how come he had a shot gun and ammunition? Where were the cops in this? Did they really care or were they taking his side? He was “one of the good guys” after all.

    If it was me and my ex was threatening to kill our kids the very first thing I would do is disappear overseas and if that was not an option I’d make a pre-emptive strike and let the Court sort it out.

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  35. Chuck Bird (4,929 comments) says:

    PG, according to most feminist academics – male or female. Women are seldom at fault for anything they do. The try to claim that is nearly all cases where women used violence they had some justification – even when they murder their husbands the claim battered women’s syndrome. Gay Oakes is a prime example. It is an outrage that the man hating dykes from the women’s refuge were never charged.

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  36. Pete George (23,688 comments) says:

    according to most feminist academics – male or female. Women are seldom at fault for anything they do.

    An assertion, no proof, Still sounds like being on the feminist bashwagon.

    In any failed relationship and in any family breakdown both partners are at fault. It’s a matter of how anger is inflicted and how serious the outcome.

    Regardless of any other case I think killing two of your own children to punish an ex-partner is about as low as you can go. Do you agree or disagree Chuck?

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  37. Chuck Bird (4,929 comments) says:

    FES, from my limited knowledge of the law on drunk driving your client was guilty even if telling the truth. He was drunk. In the car and had the keys. The law often is an ass.

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  38. bc (1,377 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird, you really need to get over this anti-women thing, you sound bitter.
    I’m imagining you and Kea together, sitting in the corner of a pub, crying over a beer about feminists and how women get away with everything these days.

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  39. Pete George (23,688 comments) says:

    It is an outrage that the man hating dykes from the women’s refuge were never charged.

    Sounds like anti-homosexual syndrome again.

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  40. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    A terrible crime in Dunedin, what what could any spouse reasonable do to protect themselves from such a lunatic?

    You could start by not marginalising men and by doing away with the institutional misandry that infects our legal system. Then men won’t be so inclined to become frustrated and desperate. Most domestic violence is committed by women. When ever a women does wrong the media portray her as a “victim” and try and justify it. Well I think this poor desperate man in Dunedin was driven to it. He was a victim of domestic violence and was marginalised.

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  41. Chuck Bird (4,929 comments) says:

    Pete, I followed case very closely. I met Doug Gardner’s brother and sister. What I say about the lesbian at the refuge is a fact. Do you want to debate on facts or name call?

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  42. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “In any failed relationship and in any family breakdown both partners are at fault.”

    An assertion, no proof.

    Is being dumped for a younger model a “fault”?

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  43. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird, you really need to get over this anti-women thing, you sound bitter.
    I’m imagining you and Kea together, sitting in the corner of a pub, crying over a beer about feminists and how women get away with everything these days.

    bc, In your dreams little fella. Women are not stupid and see through sleazy creeps like you easily. They keep a few around as gophers and dogs bodies, but it wont be you shagging their brains out later.

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  44. bhudson (4,741 comments) says:

    Regardless of any other case I think killing two of your own children to punish an ex-partner is about as low as you can go

    I agree Pete.

    Can you point to the case of such that you are referring to and to which you have proof of the motive? Other than an only an assertion thereof. (Being something you just chastised Chuck for doing.)

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  45. bc (1,377 comments) says:

    Yep, here’s Kea with some more of his women hating rubbish, right on cue. Exactly what I said.
    You couldn’t have timed it any better!
    Kea and Chuck and have a good moan about feminists together, and wish that things were like the good ‘ole days where women knew their place and if they stepped out of line you could give them a smack or two.

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  46. Scott Chris (6,177 comments) says:

    It is an outrage that the man hating dykes from the women’s refuge were never charged.

    Chuck fails to see that his objection to apparent misandry is expressed in explicitly misogynistic terms. Dumbest comment on KB so far this year.

    *edit, second dumbest. Just saw Troll Kea’s comment.

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  47. bc (1,377 comments) says:

    Kea you are so detached from reality, that you’ve just become a parody of yourself.

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  48. Odakyu-sen (755 comments) says:

    - Buy a firearm (or have some other useable weapon handy)
    – Alarm the house (or get a loud dog)
    – Change the locks
    – Disappear overseas (or over the Bombay Hills, up into the bowels of South Auckland)
    – Make a “pre-emptive strike” (now that’s what I call “empowerment”)
    – Find out what he is telling his “mates” (by befriending one of them, I suppose)

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  49. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Is being dumped for a younger model a “fault”?

    If you are a typical kiwi chic and turned into a big fat angry lumbering slob, yes.

    Most marriages are ended by women. They simply reach an age where they get bored and want to fuck around live in a hedonistic way. The most common reason the women gives is disatisfaction. However, in order to gain sympathy they will invariably portray themselves as “VICTIMS” of something. They will also tell bald faced lies about how long they tried and endured in order to save the marriage.

    Other women play along with it, on the basis the favour will be returned. NZ’s army of broken spirited pseudo men who are desperate for a bit of female attention, will grovel to them and bolster the victim narrative.

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  50. Chuck Bird (4,929 comments) says:

    bc, so you think the mothers who murdered their children as reported in the Herald article were justified in doing so? It sound like it to me. I disagree with Kea on saying the guy may have been driven to this. While I do not justify murder I can understand a man or a woman finding their spouse unfaithful and killing them and maybe the other party in a fit of rage. However, I cannot understand, justify or find excuses for an parent – mother or father to murder their children.

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  51. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    I notice it took the OAS FIFTY minutes to arrive at the house. Why so long, were they waiting at their “safe arrival point” until a civilian at the scene of the shootings confirmed that the gunman was dead and no longer a threat to thick blue line? Useless bloody cops!

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  52. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Here we have some of our resident pseudo men rushing in to defend the helpless females LOL :)

    What sleazy little creeps. No wonder women regard their sort with such contempt. They treat women as objects rather than people. Women can not relax around their sort as it is hard to be yourself when you are stuck on a pedestal.

    Interestingly, sex workers know it is the bc’s & Scott Chris’s (pretend to be nice guys) who are most abusive and just plain weird and creepy.

    I find them rather disgusting, as do women.

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  53. Harriet (5,145 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird#

    “…..Also not from the article that there are a number of mothers who do the same but there is not near the media coverage and when their is the father is often blamed in some way….”

    My understanding is that it is almost always mothers who are involved in serious child violence and death – as it includes the knowledge that boyfriends and husbands are doing it.

    Firstly, a large proportion of ‘boyfriend’ related cases of child abuse[non sexual] that leads to hospitalisation or death, happens with the mothers knowledge of prior violence of the child by the boyfriend. Some mothers do it also.

    Secondly, fathers figure very lowly in belting kids who go on to be hospitalised or die without mum knowing they were doing it. Some mothers do it also.

    Thirdly, custody battles are the only major factor that contribute to the deaths of children by fathers who were in previous non-violent relationships. Also, fathers don’t belt their kids to get back at mum – and neither do most mothers for that matter. The kids don’t die that way. It is custody – or lack off – that leads to some fathers killing their kids. And some mothers doing it also.

    Therefor in nearly all cases, fathers[and boyfriends too] simply don’t kill without the mothers prior knowledge that violence has occured. So it is the mothers who have prior knowledge of child violence who can stop almost all of the deaths by removing them from it. Or be more considerate towards custody. Fathers should too.

    And kids themselves who don’t get beaten apparently have no chance at all of ever being hospitalised or dying from violence from their parents, as there are only rare cases of ‘one-off’ beatings that lead to death by parents, and it’s mainly infants of up to about a year – which is to be an expected high risk area as infants are very likely to be very seriously harmed from being just shaken alone – unlike a 3yld or 9yld old. And no one wakes up and beats a 3yld old or 9yld for the first time and hard enough that it kills them. It doesn’t happen.

    Conclusion: violence leads to all child deaths and nearly all the mothers knew it was happening.

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  54. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    I disagree with Kea on saying the guy may have been driven to this.

    Chuck Bird, yeah well I disagree with Kea too on that.

    The point being made was the double standard. The most horrific female violence in always, with no exceptions, justified on the grounds she [the offender] was actually the victim.

    Sleaze bags (like bc & Scott Chris) are happy to play along with it, hoping they might get a root if they just grovel hard enough.

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  55. bc (1,377 comments) says:

    Scott Chris, so true.
    Since returning to kiwiblog, Kea’s trolling is just so obvious now. He doesn’t even try to hide it.
    Kea’s return to kiwiblog reminds me of Winston Peters return to parliament.
    Winston in his prime tended to stick to the same one or two issues, but at least he was entertaining. You could say the same of Kea.
    Now Winston is just a sad, desperate caricature of himself. That is Kea in kiwblog 2014.

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  56. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    as it includes the knowledge that boyfriends and husbands are doing it.

    My ex wife suffered years of serious sexual abuse by her stepfather and her mum knew it was happening. She did not want to lose her man so did nothing about it. Women frequently prostitute their own kids in these long term abuse situations. They are only concerned about getting what they want.

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  57. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “most horrific female violence in always, with no exceptions, justified on the grounds she [the offender] was actually the victim.”

    How long ago was the Christchurch “Black Widow” Helen Milner convicted again? She was regarded as a “victim” by the cops until the real victim’s sister showed just how gullible and or incompetent the cops usually are.

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  58. Pete George (23,688 comments) says:

    I can understand a man or a woman finding their spouse unfaithful and killing them and maybe the other party in a fit of rage.

    I can’t understand that. I think it’s a totally inappropriate reaction. I struggle to think of any circumstances where it would be understandable to kill someone for being unfaithful. It can be very hurtful for sure, but I don’t see how that can excuse murder.

    An ironically Chuck has claimed an excuse for murder while dumping on women’s refuge for making excuses for women.

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  59. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    bc, keep crawling sleaze bag. You may get rewarded with a mercy fuck… one day LOL :)

    [DPF: You’re getting close to the line]

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  60. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    She was regarded as a “victim” by the cops until the real victim’s sister showed …

    jackinabox, your reliance on facts and your total lack of a double standard is clear evidence you hate women and are an “abuser” of some type !!!! ;)

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  61. Harriet (5,145 comments) says:

    I’ve seen Pete George receive some classic putdowns – but this is good :

    ‘……..Kea’s return to kiwiblog reminds me of Winston Peters return to parliament…………..Winston in his prime tended to stick to the same one or two issues, but at least he was entertaining. You could say the same of Kea…………..Now Winston is just a sad, desperate caricature of himself……….That is Kea in kiwblog 2014….”

    Winston is a one trick pony in election year too……trolling about for an arguement. :cool:

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  62. Reid (16,640 comments) says:

    I struggle to think of any circumstances where it would be understandable to kill someone for being unfaithful.

    Pete he’s not excusing it he’s saying as a matter of analysing why humans do what they do, he could understand: i.e. comprehend it. Repeat: he’s not saying “it’s understandable that x did…” he’s saying “it can be understood WHY x did…”

    And he’s right, I can understand it too. Just like I can understand WHY this prick was so unthinkably selfish he’d choose to destroy his own children – two unspeakably precious lives – merely to get at his wife. If you understand humans then you DO understand these things. That doesn’t mean one approves of it, it doesn’t mean one is excusing it and it doesn’t mean you’d go and do it yourself.

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  63. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Harriet, that is a compliment, not a put down.

    If I gained the approval, of those who pretend to have morals they do not have, then I would be upset.

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  64. Manolo (14,086 comments) says:

    Something else: don’t ever attack Islam or defend Israel in Kea’s presence.
    The religion of peace above all! :D

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  65. Scott Chris (6,177 comments) says:

    Interestingly, sex workers know it is the bc’s & Scott Chris’s bla bla bla……

    Heh, bc, Troll Kea’s a sex worker. No wonder she has such a thick skin. No doubt her clients want her to abuse them.

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  66. Manolo (14,086 comments) says:

    Lindsay is 100% correct and on the money: http://lindsaymitchell.blogspot.co.nz/2014/01/but-what-about-super-numbers.html

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  67. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Manolo, you missed the point. I am attacking double standards. Women and Jews both invoke special pleading from the intellectually dishonest.

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  68. bc (1,377 comments) says:

    Kea @ 11.34am
    Oh that is just so sad. What has happened to you?
    If you want to return to your glory days of kiwiblogs #1 troll, you are going to have to do better than that.
    You need some new material Kea.
    So very, very sad.

    Kea’s kiwiblog report card for 2014: MUST TRY HARDER.

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  69. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “jackinabox, your reliance on facts and your total lack of a double standard is clear evidence you hate women and are an “abuser” of some type !!!! ;)”

    You’ve got my number Kea :o

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  70. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    bc, when it comes to being a Try Hard you do speak with some authority, I will give you that much.

    Was there ever a time you were guided by what is right and reasonable, or have you always parroted what you think is most popular with your selected peer group, in order to fit in ?

    Just curious …

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  71. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    bc ….bumptious crawler

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  72. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Manolo, I have previously said that of all the ignorant barbaric desert cults Judaism is my current favourite. Jews have been at the leading edge of the liberal changes that so distress Christian conservatives.

    Also they are largely atheists and make cool guns :)

    Why so many Jews are atheists

    Rabbi Levi Brackman

    Real cause of overwhelming Jewish atheistic tendencies seems to be tragic ignorance of Judaism’s most profound teachings and ideas.

    It is indisputable that a disproportionate amount of secular Jews self identify as atheist or agnostics. The celebrated atheist Christopher Hitchens has suggested that this is because Jews carry an atheist gene.

    For thousands of years Jews have been taught to question and delve deeper to uncover the truth inherent in any discussion. This tradition lives on in the Jewish community ….

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3809043,00.html

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  73. dog_eat_dog (790 comments) says:

    Keep on making excuses for people who murder their kids Kea, you’re a star!

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  74. bc (1,377 comments) says:

    Kea @ 11.59am
    Now that’s much better.
    – Abuse more targeted
    – Trolling not so obvious
    – Good use of scarcasm, with a little passive-aggressiveness at the end.

    Well done. It’s taken you the whole morning to get there, but you may yet return to your former glory as kiwiblogs #1 troll.

    I’m glad to helped with your self-improvement today, Kea!

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  75. Fletch (6,502 comments) says:

    Idiots.

    The U.S to import thousands of Syrian refugees, which is fine I guess, but the Obama administration will waive the terror prevention laws that usually restrict access, and will just let them in.

    From the Wall Street Journal –

    U.S. plans to resettle thousands of Syrians displaced by their country’s civil war could hinge on those refugees receiving exemptions from laws aimed at preventing terrorists from entering the country.

    A U.S. official stated publicly for the first time this week that some of the 30,000 especially vulnerable Syrians the United Nations hopes to resettle by the end of 2014 will be referred to the U.S. for resettlement.

    The U.S. has not set a specific target for how many refugees it will resettle. But at a Senate hearing Tuesday, State Department Assistant Secretary Anne Richard said, “We expect to accept referrals for several thousand Syrian refugees in 2014.”

    Molly Groom, acting deputy secretary for the Office of Immigration and Border Security at the Department of Homeland Security, acknowledged that “broad definitions” of terrorist activity under U.S. law were “often a hurdle to resettling otherwise eligible refugees who pose no security threat.” She said agencies were consulting to develop exemptions for the Syrians.

    Anwen Hughes, a lawyer at Human Rights First who has studied the laws’ impact, said that the government has been “reactive, slow,” about giving exemptions up to now, and urged a swifter process, given the magnitude of the Syrian crisis.

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303754404579312901816521062

    Yeh, nothing can go wrong there.

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  76. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    Chuck
    Women who have killed their partners is completely irrelevant to the familicide case in Dunedin, Chuck there certainly is/was loads of coverage of women killers, look at the recent case of Helen Milner or older cases such as Gay Oakes or Katherine Knight over in Aus. No one was blaming Milners husband for what that vindictive pyschopathic bitch did to him.

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  77. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    dog_eat_dog , I was saying that people should be held to account for such acts of violence, EVEN if they are females.

    But you know that don’t you. You were simply setting up a strawman to distract from the real point.

    bc, I’m still waiting for an answer ? I am flattered by all the attention, but Kea is not the topic. I am wondering if people like you are more susceptible to social conditioning and group think, as opposed to reasonable people who simply do what is right, rather than be entirely guided by self interest.

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  78. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    “Most domestic violence is committed by women. When ever a women does wrong the media portray her as a “victim” and try and justify it. Well I think this poor desperate man in Dunedin was driven to it. He was a victim of domestic violence and was marginalised.”

    What a load of bollocks from KBs no 1 troll but what should we expect?
    Kea you would probably now be second behind Muggins as KBs no 1 bullshitter.

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  79. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Women who have killed their partners is completely irrelevant to the familicide case in Dunedin

    LOOOOOOOOOOOL :)

    There we have it folks.

    FFS !

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  80. Chuck Bird (4,929 comments) says:

    PG & others who buy into the propaganda that nearly Domestic Violence here is some reading of proper research.

    Toward a Gender-Inclusive Conception
    of Intimate Partner Violence Research
    and Theory:
    Part 1 – Traditional Perspectives

    JOHN HAMEL
    San Rafael, CA

    http://igualdadeparental.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/GenderInclConceptionInIPVResearch.pdf

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  81. Pete George (23,688 comments) says:

    DPF has been taken to task by MickySavage and some of the troops at The Standard regarding who funds Kiwiblog. He has been responding to queries.

    A very weasily accusation while appearing to sort of accept DPF’s word:

    Te Reo Putake 2.5.1.1
    18 January 2014 at 9:46 am

    So, no approach at all? No emails, no calls, no quiet word in your ear that it might be better for you to back off? Seems most unlike the bullying Government we’ve come to know and loathe. I only ask because I’m told you’ve been telling people that this actually happened. I’m happy to take your word for it, but others may be more cynical.

    http://thestandard.org.nz/scoop-and-whaleoil-a-tale-of-two-websites/#comment-759114

    Te Reo Putake is one of the most devious Labour party hacks at The Standard – and has been taken to task for his dishonesty by a number of others there over recent weeks.

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  82. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Rowan, real studies (eg: not ones conducted by male hate groups) clearly show women are the main instigators of domestic violence. Though some studies do show they are slightly behind men.

    The trouble is for you is the internet. Anyone can spend a few seconds searching and access those studies. This is why people like you so desperately try to shut down freedom of speech.

    You want people in the dark and fed your lies.

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  83. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    FFS Kea this is about the case in Dunedin, not about your hatred of women. I’m sure that Helen Milner to you is a “victim” and her actions “justified”

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  84. Pete George (23,688 comments) says:

    But it’s also worth noting another couple of comments at TS:

    Colonial Viper 9

    To DPF: thanks for dropping by and making your comments on The Standard.
    Reply

    tinfoilhat 9.1

    You know what I agree, I don’t agree with his politics but good on him for fronting and giving a simple response to some of the baiting.

    And even phil gets taken to task for a typically barely decipherable response to that:

    Reply
    phillip ure 9.2

    @ viper..

    ..ew..!

    ..just..ew..!

    ..and..why..?

    ..(and you can unpucker yr lips now..eh..?..he’s gone..)

    phillip ure..

    QoT 9.2.1

    Seriously, a dude just says “hey thanks for dropping by” and in your head that translates to some massive, obsequious suck-up? You need more iron in your diet, mate.

    A funny dig at the vegan.

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  85. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    Kea (9,494 comments) says:
    January 18th, 2014 at 12:07 pm

    It therefore will most obviously distress Manolo and yourself that a Jew leads our most successful conservative party.?
    Does Colin Craig and his party have an anti jewish policy that agrees with both of your tastes or would that have to be Kylie Chapman and his RWR.?
    You might be relived to know though that there is a growing Republican/ Jewish coalition.
    The facts are that not all Jews are of a liberal persuasion
    Jews Atheistic. ? Sweeping generalization would say. So long it does not become a crime

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  86. Chuck Bird (4,929 comments) says:

    @Rowan, I originally compared women who murdered the children when their marriages broke up or were in trouble. This was in the Herald today and linked to. Have you read it? The sociologist quoted in the Herald, Dr Jo Barnes certainly seems to be making excuses for these women. In contrast I make no excuse for either parent murdering their children.

    How much coverage did the case in 2000 of Rosemary Perkin, 35, Nelson, killed daughters Alice, 8, Maria, 6, and Cherie, almost 2, then herself, a few months after separating from her husband get? Nothing like the Bristol case that resulted in a law change very detrimental to fathers.

    Of course in such a case as Helen Milner no one blamed her husband. It was a different story with Gaye Oakes. Many people unjustly blamed her partner.

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  87. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    FFS Kea this is about the case in Dunedin, not about your hatred of women.

    1. This is general debate, it is “about” whatever you want it to be.

    2. The discussion was “about” domestic violence, but you demanded female domestic violence be excluded.

    3. I like women. A lot. In fact I like them so much I can accept them for what they are and do not need to paint a false picture of them and put them on a pedestal.

    Women do not see sleazy middle aged men who agree with everything they say as their saviour. Just saying ….

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  88. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “No one was blaming Milners husband for what that vindictive pyschopathic bitch did to him.”

    The cops et al blamed the husband for killing himself until the folly of their ways was shown by a persistent (“annoying”) relative.

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  89. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    stephieboy , I am an atheist, so they all distress me.

    I did not write that article. A Rabbi did. Email him with your points.

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  90. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Azeraph (575 comments) says:
    January 18th, 2014 at 12:37 pm
    I’m getting behind big Kim ditcoms party. Scoff all you like but you guys don’t have clue that it’s type is going to herald a change.

    He is against government control of the internet and is for the free exchange of ideas and information.

    I am sick of being told what to think and say by corrupt and ignorant busy bodies.

    He has got my vote.

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  91. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    Reid (14,699 comments) says:
    January 18th, 2014 at 10:39 am

    The media are not controlling anyone. There are ample means of finding things about Iceland or Greece as your post ably testifies , mainstream media or otherwise.
    But you are highly unlikely to find e.g DPF or Cameron Slater indulging your Illuminati fantasies !
    Understandably so .!

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  92. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    The media are not controlling anyone.

    stephieboy, that is one of the most unenlightened comments I have ever read on KB !

    Most people simply accept what they hear on the telly and read in the paper. They are not bothered with searching for other view points. They stupidly accept what some teleprompt reader tells them as the credible version of reality. When in fact it is incredibly bias and slanted in one direction. Most of the commentary on this blog is simply parroting what the mass media says is the “correct” view.

    The msm do NOT aim report opinion and events, they aim to create them.

    Dragging in references to the Illuminati and other crackpots is simply an attempt to shame people into not looking for themselves.

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  93. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    Kea (9,498 comments) says:
    January 18th, 2014 at 12:44 pm

    Email him with those points .?
    Including the patently obvious that we live in a secular post religious thinking age featuring a marked decline in religious observance ,both Christian and Jewish .!

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  94. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    The Manawatu Standard have now tried to outdo their Dominion relative in promoting the obese German slug. Their editor is stating what a force this “great” man is, must be in line for a Labour Party perk.

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  95. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    Am looking forward to the not to distant future when DPF finally decides to get rid of Kea’s bird brain, shouldn’t be to long now.

    Chuck
    I make no excuse for parents murdering their kids male or female, to me they are killers and are not treated differently because of their sex.
    “How much coverage did the case in 2000 of Rosemary Perkin”
    none at all never heard of it, will google it
    Gay Oakes husband was a violent piece of meat who abused the shit out of her, he would very likely have murdered her had she not done what she did, no I do not excuse killing him but he is not ‘blameless’, not sure that she intended to kill him, this is arguable, maybe she should have got manslaughter, but this is now a moot point as she has done her time. I have heard Gay Oakes share somewhat of her ‘decline into darkness’ and what she is doing to move on with her life.
    Do you know anything about Katherine Knight or Kathleen Folbigg in Aus? there was no different treatment of them based on their gender. Katherine is the only women sentenced ‘never to be released’ in Australia because of what she did to her partner.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katherine_Knight

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  96. OneTrack (3,237 comments) says:

    kea – “He is against government control of the internet and is for the free exchange of ideas and information.

    I am sick of being told what to think and say by corrupt and ignorant busy bodies.

    He has got my vote.”

    Who is for government control of the internet and against free exchange of information? National – not so far. Labour – quite possibly. Green – definitely.

    Will dotcom support National? No. Will Key even talk to dotcom? No way – he has better things to do.

    So Voting dotcom will help the green/labour/mana/winston/dotcom hydra in to powrer.

    Vote dotcom and get Russel Norman and Meteria Turei telling you what to think.

    Yep, a brilliant plan.

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  97. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    OneTrack, there are numerous restrictions on freedom of expression and the exchange of information. The authorities simply need to label it “offensive” or some other subjective term.

    Thanks to people like Rowan: “Am looking forward to the not to distant future when DPF finally decides to get rid of Kea’s bird brain, shouldn’t be to long now.”

    I would happily exchange all the prison inmates for his type. Society would be safer and more decent. It is because of people like Rowan that the Stalins, Hitlers and others were able to do what they did. They are a disease on humanity.

    [DPF: 20 demerits. Focus on issues not people]

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  98. Chuck Bird (4,929 comments) says:

    Rowan, I think the lack of coverage of Rosemary Perkins case compared with the Bristol case or the current one prove my case of media bias. I recall the one in the US of the mother drowned her 5 children. The media were making excuses for her and even blame he husband for getting her pregnant so many times and not helping with children.

    So you take Oakes word on what happened. I prefer to takes the word of the siblings of Doug Gardner plus the full trial transcripts that I read. In it was clear that she was pissed off that Doug had been seeing his ex wife and was looking at getting back with her. His relations were very honest in my view. They said Doug was no angel but a bit of a rough diamond. The view was that there was mutual violence. They had split up. Doug came back to NZ while Gaye stayed in Oz. She was not forced to come back.

    The murder and concealment of the body was carefully planned in advance. I cannot see how you cannot just accept the word of a convicted murderer and say she should have got off with manslaughter.

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  99. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    Kea
    I suggest you move to North Korea along with Kent and muggins, once they lose their court decision.
    That society will be a better fit to you and your views.

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  100. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Gay Oakes husband was a violent piece of meat who abused the shit out of her, he would very likely have murdered her had she not done what she did…he is not ‘blameless’, not sure that she intended to kill him, this is arguable

    Here we see Rowan portraying the victim as the guilty party and making excuses for the violent murderer.

    I wonder if David would be comfortable with female victims of extreme violence being described as pieces of meat who were asking for it on his blog ?

    Anyone care to guess the answer ?

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  101. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    That society will be a better fit to you and your views.

    Rowan, was it my view on allowing freedom of expression and speech that gave it away ?

    Or was it my resistance to the state meddling in our lives ?

    Or was it my belief that people should be treated equally and not held to different standards if they have pussy ?

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  102. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    No Chuck
    Please do not put words in my mouth.
    I do not take Gay Oakes word or condone her actions, nor did I say she ‘should’ have got of. I said there was an argument for manslaughter as was it proven BRD that she ‘intended’ to kill him? Doug is certainly not blameless. Her actions in burying him in the back yard and covering up her crime, while horrific are not relevant in terms of ‘intention’ to kill him. Her crimes after his death are seperate to those of murder, just as Ewen MacDonalds crimes that he is currently imprisoned for are not ‘evidence’ of murder.

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  103. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    made a comment on twitter this morning that Whale stranding’s are natural and it was a waste of time and money re-floating them if they were stupid enough to run into the landy bits.

    I got a couple upset and they came back which was fair enough until one genius stated whale stranding’s are caused by humans. I was a tad sarcastic in my reply but asked “how so” ?

    The reply: Stranded No More ‏@StrandedNoMore 3h

    @roonsopo @scuba_nurse @Kiwimrsmac @ProjectJonah U R ignorant, whales do not “kill themselves”humans cause stranding

    Whale stranding’s are evidently caused by humans surveying for oil

    Dear god, I hope they are not using public funds

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  104. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    Again Bird Brain
    Where do I specifically condone Gay Oakes actions? or say she ‘should’ have got of?

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  105. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    “The murder and concealment of the body was carefully planned in advance”
    You have any evidence of this Chuck? and Doug Gardners family are hardly going to be impartial now are they?

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  106. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Rowan, would you be comfortable describing a female murder victim as “a piece of meat” (who deserved what she got) ?

    Please explain your answer.

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  107. muggins (3,816 comments) says:

    Rowan
    Just because I maintain David Bain is guilty because of all the evidence that points to him as being the perpetrator it does not follow that I am a bullshitter. I could say the same for you when you try to explain why you believe his father was the culprit. So I would ask that in future , unless I am taking part in a discussion, that you don’t refer to me in any way, shape or form. Comprende?

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  108. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    Kea
    Unlike you I judge each case on its merits and not the sex of the offender, I cannot think of a specific occassion where I can describe a particular female victim as this, but would do if I came across one such as the Gay Oakes one if the roles were reversed.
    The only cases I can think of where the ‘piece of meat’ title could apply to a women is where the women was the perpetrator and that is rare, athough could possibly apply to the Katherine Knight one I mentioned and linked to previously.

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  109. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    No Muggins
    The deliberate lies, spin and misrepresentations is what makes you a bullshitter. It is fine to believe what you like over who killed the Bains but spreading unsubstaintated misinformation passed of as ‘fact’ is not. If you refer to something as a ‘fact’ then if you don’t want to be called a bullshitter then you will have to substantiate it, not to hard to comprehend is it?

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  110. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Rowan, would be comfortable referring to a female who was brutally murdered as a “piece of meat who was asking for it” ?

    Unlike you I judge each case on its merits and not the sex of the offender

    Rowan, that is simply a lie.

    If it were true we would not be having this chat. You apply totally different standards to women and make excuses for their wrongs, no matter how vile those wrongs are. Women are not held to account for their actions in the same way men are. I have sat in many court hearings and seen this in stark reality. You are just a desperate little man doing what he thinks women want in order to get their attention. But the trouble is that your sort have infected our legal system. Decent Men are persecuted because sleazy little creeps think with their dicks and ignore justice.

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  111. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    No Kea
    You are lying and trying to tell me what I believe, you are judging the case on the sex of the offender, at the end of the day they are killers male or female and despite your bs arguments women are held accountable for there actions in the same way as men are.
    You have not referred to any specific examples of otherwise to substantiate anything that you have said.

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  112. Chuck Bird (4,929 comments) says:

    Again Bird Brain
    Where do I specifically condone Gay Oakes actions? or say she ‘should’ have got of?

    Rowan, I was not going to bring this up but since you want to resort to childish name calling as you cannot read what you write let alone what others write you seem to have a habit of taking the word of premeditated murders.

    I never said you stated she should have got off but that maybe she should have got manslaughter. She tried the BWS scam but that was rejected. What evidence have you that she should have got off with manslaughter for calculated premeditated murder?

    Doug is certainly not blameless

    You seem to know less about Doug Garnner’s murder than who murdered Robin Bain and his family.
    Again where is your evidence?

    You have any evidence of this Chuck? and Doug Gardners family are hardly going to be impartial now are they?

    I already told you I have the trial transcripts along with the judge’s summing up. Doug Gardner’s family are more impartial than the word of a convicted murderer

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  113. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    despite your bs arguments women are held accountable for there actions in the same way as men are.

    Rowan, no they are not. And you very clearly hold them to different standards. You have just referred to a male murder victim as a “piece of meat” and blamed the victim for being murdered. Why ?, well because the offender was woman.

    You would not do that if the victim was a woman and David would have banned you if you did.

    The double standards is incredible.

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  114. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    “You seem to know less about Doug Garnner’s murder than who murdered Robin Bain and his family.”

    Chucky
    Rather rich coming from you since the only ‘evidence’ you have suggested about who killed the Bains in any of the threads is the unsubstantiated suppressed allegations about what David ‘may’ have said someone 20 years before the retrial. Chuck you need to understand what is relevant to a murder charge, and this along with Ewen McDonalds crimes against the Guy and other property or what Gay Oakes did after the death of her husband is not relevant to the murder charge, specifically the ‘intention’ part.
    She was on trial for murder not covering up after the fact and burying her husband in the back yard.
    Yes Doug Gardner was a ‘saint’ along with your hero, the kiddy fiddler Robin. I said specifically that the ‘intention’ to kill part is not satisfied ‘BRD’ IMO, It is not in dispute that she caused his death.

    The ‘bird brain’ reference was to Kea and not you although I can see how you might think otherwise, sorry but this was not directed at you.

    FES are you around? What are your thoughts on Gay Oakes case?

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  115. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ muggins (2,829 comments) says:
    January 18th, 2014 at 2:09 pm

    No, just because you think all the evidence points to David Bain as being the killer, does not make you a bullshitter.

    What makes you a bullshitter is the fact you come on here, and other public blogs, and make statements saying you have been told something by police and Crown Pathologists, that they did not tell you and misrepresenting what they did tell you, to fit your chosen scenario.

    That is what makes you a bullshitter. And, as you know, we have that in writing – writing that when compared to posts you have made on this very blog (and still accessible) prove you are dishonest.

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  116. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    This from Crime.co.nz about Gaye Oakes that Rowan appears so indulgent towards,

    “Oakes’s efforts to avoid detection seem to have damaged her defence. Commentators say had she reported the death immediately the courts are likely to have treated her more kindly. However, her actions in burying Gardner rather than reporting his death did not earn sympathy, nor did her denial of any knowledge of Gardner’s whereabouts when interviewed by police soon after his death. Gardner’s family have participated in the media debate saying he was not the monster Oakes made him out to be. ”

    http://www.crime.co.nz/c-files.aspx?ID=31

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  117. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    Specific examples of why they are not Kea, specific cases where the female perpetrator has got of ‘because she is a female’
    Gay Oakes was held to account, i.e. convicted of murder

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  118. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ stephieboy (310 comments) says:
    January 18th, 2014 at 3:12 pm

    Crime.co.nz is not an official source of information and have in the past been proven to get things incorrect. Owning and operating a website does not make the information presented accurate or correct.

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  119. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    I know all that Stephie but as I have said her actions after his death are not relevant to the intention to kill him, it is not in dispute that she killed him. I am asking for proof of her intention to kill him as for a BRD conviction you need to prove ‘intention’ and before you state the obvious yes I know the jury convicted her of ‘murder’ but this does not make the conviction ‘safe’.

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  120. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    Judith, whether you like or not muggins has attempted be very thorough when it comes to the Bain case where Bain’s supporters have attempted at almost every turn to muddy the waters.
    muggins has every right to contact police and other witnesses if he chooses to do so in furtherance of his researches
    Others like Karam have. Why not others.?
    Oh dear Rowan just which conviction do you find safe.?

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  121. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    The actions of attempting to hide a body by burying it, only assist in achieving a murder conviction – unless the Crown could prove plans were made to conduct a burial (e.g. purchased a spade or tools specifically for the job) prior to the actual killing, then they should not have anything to do with proving the murder was pre-meditated.

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  122. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ stephieboy (311 comments) says:
    January 18th, 2014 at 3:19 pm

    Muggins has lied about the information he was given. You are right, he has every right to contact those people, BUT he does not have the right to lie about what they told him. Those people have now said they will refuse to speak to him again, and the police have warned all those involved in the case NOT to correspond with ‘muggins’ – and any contact from him must be referred on to senior officials, due to the manner in which he misrepresented and lied about the information he was given.

    He did that – several times – what is that if not ‘muddying the waters?’

    Amazing how biased you are – you see lying about what you are told when you report that information to other people as okay? Certainly indicates a great deal about your standards, no wonder you think Muggins is wonderful.

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  123. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    It is disgusting that Gay Oakes has written a book denigrating her murder victim while in prison.

    Imagine if Clayton Robert Weatherston tried that. Imagine Rowan describing his victim as “a piece of meat” who deserved what she got.

    The police were pressured into bringing Oakes before the court by the efforts of his family.

    Then we have creeps like Rowan telling us there is no double standard and demanding examples !

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  124. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    Stephie
    What utter arrogance! JFRB is a witchhunt that does nothing except to spread misinformation and ‘muddy the waters’ regarding the Bain case.
    Fruitloops like Muggins (and yourself) expect us to ‘believe it’ because you posted it in an online blog with no substantion at all. Well Stephie, noone with half a braincell does that. It does not take many braincells at all to see that Muggins is a nutcase and has no idea what he is talking about.
    And actually I believe that 90+ % of convictions are ‘safe’

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  125. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    Judith pray tell me exactly in what ways has muggins lied about the information he has gathered.?
    Please provide specific examples of muggins ” muddying the waters.”?
    Well said Kea.!

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  126. kowtow (8,784 comments) says:

    Violence and murder with a slight change in direction.

    The Wind That Shook the Barley ,2006,won a slew of awards (from experts who know about these things you see).

    Depicting the cruel British oppression of the Irish ,pure revolutionary fervour and more than a bit of feminism,it was yet another bit of cultural marxism.

    The truth of the Irish rebellion was one of murder ,genocide and terror when the great tradition of British constitutionalism was available to the players who chose ,not the ballot box ,but like their modern counterparts the bullet.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/archives-will-shed-more-light-on-intimidation-and-murder-of-protestants-by-elements-of-the-ira-1.1657847

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  127. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    Rowan calm down there.Am awaiting Judith to substantiate her claims with specifics.!
    Now its not muggin’s or anyone else’s fault that the Binnie report was found to totally unsafe and “fatally flawed”.!
    Am sure that is what is really bugging you both.!

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  128. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    F… of Kea
    You sanctimonious shithead, stop telling people what they think and putting words inside my mouth. Clayton Weatherston like you is a low life scumbag who deserved everything he got, His crime is in the worst category of murder which is far worse than Gay Oakes. There is no doubting Weatherstons intentions, i.e. for your lack of braincells he took a knife into the bedroom which is ‘premeditation’.
    But Kea would see Clayton Weatherston as a ‘victim’ because he is male.

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  129. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Are Fairfax journos greasing to Dotcom in the hope he might purchase the failing company so as to keep them in their overpaid privileged positions? Come on JK, this creep has interfered in the political and judicial process of his host country; time he was deported to face his criminal charges, not being harboured here, living a life of Riley.

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  130. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Rowan, no it is you portraying murderers as victims and me questioning that.

    I guess you are hoping no one scrolls up the page and reads what I really said ? That is the third time you have done that today. Pretending to reply to something that I did not say. You really are a very dishonest person, even by the ambitious standards set by feminist supporters.

    Do you think it acceptable for murderers to write books slagging off their dead victims while in prison and making themselves out as the victim. ?

    Yes or no ?

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  131. Chuck Bird (4,929 comments) says:

    Some backers of Oakes imply that her actions should be supported because they sent a warning to men who abuse women. One of the placards at the April 13 picket declared, “I support Lorena Bobbitt.” In June 1993, in the United States, Bobbitt severed her husband’s penis with a kitchen knife while he was sleeping. She alleged he had repeatedly raped and beat her. Women for Justice for Women, a group set up in the wake of the Oakes trial, is calling for changes in the law to allow a “self-preservation” defense on murder charges.

    Doris Church, described in the April 7 Christchurch Press as a spokeswoman for victims and a battered women’s advocate, has called for widening the definition of “self-defense.” Women are physically weaker than men, she says. If the law took that into account, “self-defense” wouldn’t just cover actions taken to protect yourself while actually under attack. A “preemptive strike” is a legitimate self-defense for women held in life-threatening situations, she argues. Oakes’s lawyers expressed a similar view.

    The working class cannot consider killing or mutilating someone as retribution for abuse to be acceptable or sending a positive message. To do so would drag us down to the moral level the bosses try to impose on us every day.

    As capitalist society decays, the big-business media, politicians, and other ruling-class spokespeople constantly push toward the coarsening of human relations. They don’t want working people to think we can stand on the moral high ground, and fight for solidarity. But it is only through working-class unity and common struggle that we can combat women’s oppression and the other horrors that capitalism imposes on us.

    http://murderpedia.org/female.O/o/oakes-gay.htm

    The above is a quote from one of her supporters.

    I thought in New Zealand like in the UK that convicted criminals or their families were not allowed to profit by books or articles about their crimes. It appears not.

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  132. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    Righto Stephie
    You cling to the ‘fatally flawed’ mantra much like the ‘mountain of evidence’, i.e. like a baby clings to his/her dummy because thats all you have. You ask us to provide specifics; we have, you have not reciprocated and you have nothing. Your case is so weak its laughable and you would have us believe that you know better than CL who had to bring in further experts to discredit each other at the retrial, because the case is so ‘obvious’.

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  133. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    I note Rowan is a Bain supporter, as I expected.

    Rowan would readily identify with a creepy, sneaky unmanly type like that, who gets off on hurting people and getting away with it. Rowan sees a kindred spirit in Bain.

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  134. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    This is what you really said Kea
    Now whose defending the killer? Edward Livingstone is a ‘poor desperate man’ to you. Creep

    “Most domestic violence is committed by women. When ever a women does wrong the media portray her as a “victim” and try and justify it. Well I think this poor desperate man in Dunedin was driven to it. He was a victim of domestic violence and was marginalised.”

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  135. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    I thought in New Zealand like in the UK that convicted criminals or their families were not allowed to profit by books or articles about their crimes. It appears not.

    Chuck Bird, it is only allowed if the killer is a woman.

    There is no way a man would be allowed to do so and no publisher would touch it with a barge pole. Further more, it would be seen as having no insight or remorse [to their offending] and a man would serve a longer sentence as a result.

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  136. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    Rowan the facts remain the Binnie report was found to totally unacceptable for a number of substantial and very sound reasons.But one was Bain giving a contradictory and inconsistent account of his actions. But one notorious example was trying .explain to Binnie his bloody gloves found in Stephen’s room. As some one observed here , that explanation alone should lose him the compo claim.
    But its all water under the bridge now as he tries to salvage the train wreck of his claim through the judicial review appeal.
    Time to move on.!

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  137. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Rowan, yes that last bit is an out of context fragment of what I said. I was clearly applying your standard to another example to illustrate a point.

    But you know that you slimy little prick.

    You really are a disgusting little man. I actually find it fascinating chatting with you, as it is seldom I get to chat with someone so corrupted and just plain rotten.

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  138. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Rowan, Do you think it acceptable for murderers to write books slagging off their dead victims while in prison and making themselves out as the victim. ?

    Yes or no ?

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  139. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    Only ‘train wreck’ as you put it Stephie is the crown case against David, but you know better than them don’t you! which is why you can’t explain any of it any better than them.

    Kea likewise, I find you an obnoxious arrogant POS who ‘knows’ he is always right, but your deluded twisted views of morality is in its own way ‘fascinating’.

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  140. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ stephieboy (314 comments) says:
    January 18th, 2014 at 3:44 pm

    You are late to the party stephieboy. The evidence has been posted on here time and time again, and it has NOTHING to do with Binnie’s report. I am not going to bother trying to sort through all the Bain posts to repost them for you – sorry, but you just aren’t that important to me.

    The essence is, Muggins approached the police asking them questions about the Bain case, they answered him by email. He then posted on here many comments saying the police had told him certain things. I was suspicious because he frequently changed what he said – so I applied under the OIA to get a copy of the emails he had been sent by the police. As it eventuated, what muggins was passing off as being stated from the police, was nothing like it. He had altered their comments to attempt to prove his theory.

    This made me suspicious of other things he had said, so I followed up with other sources that Muggins said he had got information from, and the same thing had occurred.

    If you care to troll back through the archives, all those posts from Muggins, and where he was caught etc are on here. At first he tried to say he hadn’t said those things on here, but when the posts he had made were reposted he was caught out. Since then he tries to change the subject when he can, or repost his same lies, hoping new people like you will be sucked in and not know the original circumstances.

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  141. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ stephieboy (314 comments) says:
    January 18th, 2014 at 4:03 pm

    Many of the 19 points that the police found wrong with Binnies report have since been proven to be incorrect. e.g. they stated that Binnie had said things were in the Police Manual at the time, that weren’t.

    Since then it has been proved, by the Police Manual from the time that was an exhibit at both trials, that what Binnie had referred as being in the manual, was in fact ‘in the manual’ – so before you start making statements about how wrong Binnie was, best you inform yourself on the actual up-to-date facts.

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  142. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    I have read her book Kea but not for ages, there don’t seem to be any in the libraries down here, it went a lot further than just her marriage to Doug Gardener. I think you are misrepresenting what the book actually said but you know that don’t you.

    The raw answer to your question is ‘no’ but thats not actually an accurate representation of what the book does is it.

    Yes or no to you
    Is Edward Livingstone a ‘poor desperate man’ to you and driven to do what he did because of his ex-wife?

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  143. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Rowan, Do you think it acceptable for murderers to write books slagging off their dead victims while in prison and making themselves out as the victim. ?

    Yes or no ?

    You seem to be struggling with the question, so maybe a specific example would help you out:

    You told me that Oakes made allegations against her dead victim. She claimed the victim was mean to her. And you attempted to justify this brutal murder on the grounds she was provoked and pushed into it.

    This defense of provocation was used by Weatherston, just like your girl Oakes used it. Would you consider it ok for Weatherston to write a book berating his victim and would you have commented that she was a “piece of meat” who deserved it ? (As you have done today on KB with the Oakes case)

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  144. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    “Is Edward Livingstone a ‘poor desperate man’ to you and driven to do what he did because of his ex-wife?”

    Rowan, I don’t know.

    But according to the standard YOU have set, a anti female hate group called the Mans Refuge [just imagine it] could claim he was a victim and you would be on here calling the dead “pieces of meat who deserved everything they got”

    Your actions seem not to match very well with the standards you claim to have while crowing from your soapbox. Are you from Dunedin ?

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  145. Manolo (14,086 comments) says:

    The useless UN continues to bend over: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/01/15/UN-Steps-Up-Organizing-Efforts-for-Global-Palestinian-Solidarity

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  146. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    The useless UN continues to bend over:

    Manolo, Why don’t they just do what they did for Israel ?

    1. Evict all non Muslims from the land.

    2. Give them billions and billions and billions of dollars, taken from people in other countries.

    3. Have the richest and most powerful countries back them militarily and with even more money.

    4. Have the most powerful military on the planet systematically invade and murder any surrounding country not sympathetic enough to them, or that practices another religion.

    5. Tell lies that promote the cause and re-write a fake history.

    The Zionist state is justified on the grounds of religious fables and was invented just a few years back. Surely we can do something for Palestinians.

    Any country would prosper when the rest of the world is paying the bills. The rich country of Israel is the biggest recipient of US aid on the planet. Even though the US is bankrupt and can not care for its own people, the jew sucks like a parasite on the US tax payer to this day.

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  147. Kimble (4,443 comments) says:

    So I am learning a scripting language for shts and giggles and set myself an exercise for practice: tally the comments from December 2013, including up and down votes and the frequency of cuss words used.

    Here are the results:

    Highest Up Vote Average (min 31 posts)
    rouppe: 34 posts, 406 total up votes (12.69 avg), 12 total down votes (1.50 avg)
    rouppe’s most popular post is from “minto on mandela” (66 votes)

    Keeping Stock: 91 posts, 1048 total up votes (12.19 avg), 31 total down votes (1.41 avg)
    Keeping Stock’s most popular post is from “brown must resign” (41 votes)

    Cunningham: 39 posts, 473 total up votes (12.13 avg), 23 total down votes (1.53 avg)
    Cunningham’s most popular post is from “colin craig says-2″ (31 votes)
    Cunningham’s swear word tally: S’s=1, F’s=0, C’s=0

    srylands: 34 posts, 371 total up votes (11.24 avg), 6 total down votes (1.00 avg)
    srylands’s most popular post is from “minto on mandela” (40 votes)

    duggledog: 185 posts, 1875 total up votes (10.47 avg), 73 total down votes (1.46 avg)
    duggledog’s most popular post is from “brown must resign” (51 votes)
    duggledog’s swear word tally: S’s=7, F’s=6, C’s=0

    Most Total Up Votes
    Manolo: 551 posts, 3320 total up votes (6.89 avg), 587 total down votes (2.02 avg)
    Manolo’s most popular post is from “minto on mandela” (52 votes)
    Manolo’s swear word tally: S’s=4, F’s=4, C’s=0

    kowtow: 297 posts, 2206 total up votes (7.63 avg), 578 total down votes (2.59 avg)
    kowtow’s most popular post is from “garner v smith” (25 votes)
    kowtow’s swear word tally: S’s=28, F’s=20, C’s=0

    Pete George: 446 posts, 2123 total up votes (5.08 avg), 1756 total down votes (4.76 avg)
    Pete George’s most popular post is from “minto on mandela” (31 votes)
    Pete George’s swear word tally: S’s=9, F’s=2, C’s=0

    Pauleastbay: 270 posts, 1909 total up votes (7.92 avg), 148 total down votes (1.74 avg)
    Pauleastbay’s most popular post is from “williams on brown” (31 votes)
    Pauleastbay’s swear word tally: S’s=15, F’s=13, C’s=0

    duggledog: 185 posts, 1875 total up votes (10.47 avg), 73 total down votes (1.46 avg)
    duggledog’s most popular post is from “brown must resign” (51 votes)
    duggledog’s swear word tally: S’s=7, F’s=6, C’s=0

    Highest Rated Comment
    rouppe: 34 posts, 406 total up votes (12.69 avg), 12 total down votes (1.50 avg)
    rouppe’s most popular post is from “minto on mandela” (66 votes)

    alex Masterley: 25 posts, 282 total up votes (11.75 avg), 3 total down votes (1.50 avg)
    alex Masterley’s most popular post is from “minto on mandela” (55 votes)

    stephen2d: 16 posts, 100 total up votes (6.67 avg), 73 total down votes (8.11 avg)
    stephen2d’s most popular post is from “minto on mandela” (52 votes)
    stephen2d’s swear word tally: S’s=2, F’s=0, C’s=0

    Manolo: 551 posts, 3320 total up votes (6.89 avg), 587 total down votes (2.02 avg)
    Manolo’s most popular post is from “minto on mandela” (52 votes)
    Manolo’s swear word tally: S’s=4, F’s=4, C’s=0

    duggledog: 185 posts, 1875 total up votes (10.47 avg), 73 total down votes (1.46 avg)
    duggledog’s most popular post is from “brown must resign” (51 votes)
    duggledog’s swear word tally: S’s=7, F’s=6, C’s=0

    Highest Down Vote Average (min 31posts)
    ross69: 101 posts, 165 total up votes (3.11 avg), 985 total down votes (10.71 avg)
    ross69’s most reviled post is from “minto on mandela” (64 votes)
    ross69’s swear word tally: F’s=3, S’s=1, C’s=0

    publicwatchdog: 39 posts, 95 total up votes (2.64 avg), 413 total down votes (10.59 avg)
    publicwatchdog’s most reviled post is from “brown to be censured” (19 votes)

    Yoza: 147 posts, 142 total up votes (2.29 avg), 1249 total down votes (10.24 avg)
    Yoza’s most reviled post is from “minto on mandela” (61 votes)
    Yoza’s swear word tally: S’s=3, F’s=2, C’s=0

    Tom Jackson: 111 posts, 269 total up votes (3.20 avg), 838 total down votes (9.21 avg)
    Tom Jackson’s most reviled post is from “brown must resign” (39 votes)
    Tom Jackson’s swear word tally: S’s=9, F’s=5, C’s=0

    Psycho Milt: 32 posts, 73 total up votes (2.92 avg), 159 total down votes (7.57 avg)
    Psycho Milt’s most reviled post is from “more calls for brown to go” (26 votes)
    Psycho Milt’s swear word tally: F’s=4, S’s=0, C’s=0

    Most Total Down Votes
    wikiriwhis business: 414 posts, 539 total up votes (2.23 avg), 1961 total down votes (5.45 avg)
    wikiriwhis business’s most reviled post is from “the whittall prosecution” (30 votes)
    wikiriwhis business’s swear word tally: F’s=1, S’s=0, C’s=0

    Pete George: 446 posts, 2123 total up votes (5.08 avg), 1756 total down votes (4.76 avg)
    Pete George’s most reviled post is from “colin craig says-2″ (25 votes)
    Pete George’s swear word tally: S’s=9, F’s=2, C’s=0

    Yoza: 147 posts, 142 total up votes (2.29 avg), 1249 total down votes (10.24 avg)
    Yoza’s most reviled post is from “minto on mandela” (61 votes)
    Yoza’s swear word tally: S’s=3, F’s=2, C’s=0

    Kea: 350 posts, 1320 total up votes (4.31 avg), 1044 total down votes (3.82 avg)
    Kea’s most reviled post is from “nz by religion” (16 votes)
    Kea’s swear word tally: S’s=19, F’s=17, C’s=1

    ross69: 101 posts, 165 total up votes (3.11 avg), 985 total down votes (10.71 avg)
    ross69’s most reviled post is from “minto on mandela” (64 votes)
    ross69’s swear word tally: F’s=3, S’s=1, C’s=0

    Lowest Rated Comment
    ross69: 101 posts, 165 total up votes (3.11 avg), 985 total down votes (10.71 avg)
    ross69’s most reviled post is from “minto on mandela” (64 votes)
    ross69’s swear word tally: F’s=3, S’s=1, C’s=0

    Yoza: 147 posts, 142 total up votes (2.29 avg), 1249 total down votes (10.24 avg)
    Yoza’s most reviled post is from “minto on mandela” (61 votes)
    Yoza’s swear word tally: S’s=3, F’s=2, C’s=0

    Alan: 80 posts, 404 total up votes (5.69 avg), 192 total down votes (5.82 avg)
    Alan’s most reviled post is from “brown must resign” (49 votes)

    Rowan: 141 posts, 323 total up votes (2.76 avg), 573 total down votes (4.90 avg)
    Rowan’s most reviled post is from “are blogs media-2″ (43 votes)
    Rowan’s swear word tally: S’s=12, F’s=1, C’s=0

    thePeoplesFlag: 11 posts, 34 total up votes (3.78 avg), 172 total down votes (15.64 avg)
    thePeoplesFlag’s most reviled post is from “the whittall prosecution” (40 votes)

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  148. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    Judith (4,868 comments) says:
    January 18th, 2014 at 4:20 pm

    The rather more than 19 points made the police are in full here.

    http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/forum/full-text-of-errors-and-concerns-found-by-police-in-binnies-report

    Specifically which ones were found to be subsequently wrong,?

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  149. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ stephieboy (315 comments) says:
    January 18th, 2014 at 5:06 pm

    I have given you one example. I am not predisposed to providing you with the rest because of the site you have quoted, indicating your bias. It is my experience that people who have anything to do with Counterspin, and their leader, aren’t worthy of such an answer – also the matter is before the Courts and the Minister, and when you need to know, you will find the information is available. But rest assured, you list is as incompetent as the sites administrator

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  150. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    Stephie
    Your amateuristic attempts to explain the Bain case makes me laugh, linking to the most dishonest website online, that is currently the subject of court action to make your point just goes to show your desperation. The list was much like the 1997 PCA report, set out to exonerate the police investigation.
    That you and your ilk would use it as ‘evidence’ is laughable. Of course the police would disagree with Binnie on their conduct, they are hardly going to admit they screwed up, from memory the only error of fact I recall related to how many bullets were left in the magazine which is inconsequential, the rest of it was desperate nitpicking and clutching at straws.

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  151. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    Kea
    I haven’t or wouldn’t make these allegations of any male accused of being an abuser, what I said specifically related to Doug Gardner. No I am not from and have never lived in Dunedin.

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  152. F E Smith (3,307 comments) says:

    The truth of the Irish rebellion was one of murder ,genocide and terror when the great tradition of British constitutionalism was available to the players who chose ,not the ballot box ,but like their modern counterparts the bullet.

    That is pure bollocks.

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  153. F E Smith (3,307 comments) says:

    unless the Crown could prove plans were made to conduct a burial (e.g. purchased a spade or tools specifically for the job) prior to the actual killing, then they should not have anything to do with proving the murder was pre-meditated.

    I am not sure that I agree with that.  I don’t think it is supported by normal Crown practice.

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  154. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    FES
    I have tried to explain to these various trolls that Gay Oakes actions after the crime i.e. burying the body is not relevant in terms of whether she intended to kill Doug Gardener, but am being told I am ‘defending a killer’ by suggesting that Gay Oakes didn’t neccessarily intend to kill Gardener and that intention was not proven BRD IMO. All the replies were aimed at defending Gardener, and condeming Oakes, Kea even thinks her crime was in the same league as Weatherstons. Do you have any thoughts on her case, see my 3.10 post.

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  155. muggins (3,816 comments) says:

    Judith ,
    You have been proved to be a liar . After all who was it said they had never used the word oral as in oral sex when talking about David Bain and his goat.
    And would you please explain what I lied about.
    I said that Dempster had told me he thought those marks on Robin Bain’s hands could have been up to 48 hours old. Prove that he didn’t say that.
    As for whether David Bain lied about being completely naked at some point when Dr Dempster examined him,well we only have his word for that. My information was that there was a police officer in the doorway when that examination took place.
    I found out later that he only arrived there after that examination had been completed so there was a ten minute period when Bain was alone with Dr Pryde.
    Would you like to tell me how Karam knew those track pants in the wash belonged to David Bain as he told the Privy Council according to his book Trial by Ambush?

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  156. Chuck Bird (4,929 comments) says:

    Rowan, with all respect to my learned friend I think I know more about the case than him as I have the full transcripts and the judges summing up. The jury found Oakes guilty of murder and she had a bloody good lawyer. I could look up the transcripts but from memory although he was not carved up it did not appear he had a peaceful death.

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  157. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    but am being told I am ‘defending a killer’ by suggesting that Gay Oakes didn’t neccessarily intend to kill Gardener and that intention was not proven

    Rowan, no you referred to the victim as a “piece of meat” and made it crystal clear where your sympathies lay. And you did so based on the story fabricated by the murderer.

    Kea even thinks her crime was in the same league as Weatherstons.

    Well even if I did, so what ? Both were convicted of the same crime. Both are manipulative liars. Only difference is one did not write a book portraying their dead victims as the wrong doer and running their victim into the ground. You would not have written a word of your rants today if the Oakes was a man.

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  158. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    Yawn
    And the goat f…ker is suprised that noone takes his idiotic ramblings seriously! He posts something that we only have his word for and then requires ‘proof’ that its not true. Muggins you are not worth the time of day.
    Spot the lies in Muggins posts, there are multiple per line, Drrrh!

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  159. F E Smith (3,307 comments) says:

    Rowan,

    sorry, I missed your 3.10pm comment. I have been in and out all day, so have only skimmed the threads.

    The fact that Gay Oakes was found guilty says that intention was proved beyond reasonable doubt. If it wasn’t then there could not have been a verdict of guilty, as intention is generally a vital part of any offence.

    In the same way, disposing of a body after a homicide is able to be used, at least in part, to infer intent. You wouldn’t want it to be the sole foundation for any such inference, but it certainly helps. If your client does dispose of a body it really does make them far more difficult to defend. The best thing to do would have been for Gay Oakes to go to the police and confess, using any alleged abuse as the reason for the killing. Disposing of the body certainly did not help any argument in favour of a battered spouse defence (which I am not in favour of anyway).

    I do think that it is appalling that the refuge workers were not tried. In my opinion their behaviour was worse than that of Gay Oakes (assuming that Oakes’ account of abuse is true, that is).

    Now, do I think that your position is unreasonable, once we remove the misunderstanding about intent? No, I think it is perfectly acceptable. There are allegations as to Gardner’s behaviour towards Oakes, and they have been present since before his death. I don’t know what happened and those who do are not commenting. But disposing of a body is not, as you say, proof absolute of any intent to kill. It is merely circumstantial evidence that can be used to infer such an intent. People do react in unfortunate ways to misadventure that has resulted in a person’s death and sometimes their actions after the death are at variance to what actually happened to cause death.

    If Gardner’s death was in fact an accident then Gay Oakes was very poorly advised by the refuge workers. That contributes to my opinion of them as stated above. I don’t think that she would have succeeded in a battered spouse syndrome (I refuse to use the term “battered women”) but had she gone to police immediately then perhaps she might have succeeded in obtaining a verdict of manslaughter.

    I hope that all makes sense. I definitely do not think that you are in any way defending a murder by taking your position.

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  160. nasska (11,827 comments) says:

    F E Smith

    One thing has always puzzled me about the Oakes case. How on earth did the refuge workers who helped to bury the body escape being charged with being accessories?

    I can’t, offhand, think of a more blatant case of people being guilty of aiding & abetting the covering up of a crime.

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  161. Manolo (14,086 comments) says:

    I firmly believe David Bain is innocent, and the Tooth airy and Santa Claus visit Earth regularly.

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  162. F E Smith (3,307 comments) says:

    nasska,

    Honestly, I have no idea. One day I will ask one of her lawyers and see if they know, but the decision is so odd that I really do not have a clue to even speculate with. The idea that they were not charged seems to be completely wrong.

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  163. nasska (11,827 comments) says:

    F E Smith

    Thanks…..if possible share what you can of any info you unearth.

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  164. F E Smith (3,307 comments) says:

    Will do, nasska. I should be seeing one of them in a month or two and will make a note to ask then.

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  165. muggins (3,816 comments) says:

    Rowan,
    Is that you in the top photo?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2516803/A-man-having-sex-goat-naked-woman-straddling-statue-Ancient-Roman-frescoes-modern-artistic-makeover.html

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  166. SPC (5,787 comments) says:

    Kea,

    “Rabbi Levi Brackman

    Why so many Jews are atheists

    Real cause of overwhelming Jewish atheistic tendencies seems to be tragic ignorance of Judaism’s most profound teachings and ideas. For thousands of years Jews have been taught to question and delve deeper to uncover the truth inherent in any discussion. This tradition lives on in the Jewish community ….

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3809043,00.html

    The Rabbi is claiming that the secular Jews are not atheists just sceptics as to the existence of the God of the bible they were taught as 13 year olds. He says he no longer believes in that “bar mitzvah” age God either but has a more learned appreciation of Judaism.

    Essentially he is admitting the God of the bible is a childish construct but the people and religion is stuck with this base to their Judaism despite being more learned. This is the moderate Rabbi apologetic that reaches out to the secular Jew, however the more conservative of the religion still await the end time arrival of a red cow. These are those who only study within their religion and have no other way of understanding the world.

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  167. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    How on earth did the refuge workers who helped to bury the body escape being charged with being accessories?

    nasska, Because they are women. It really is just as simple as that. Even when the evidence is right before people eyes they refuse to acknowledge it. They are so brain washed and fearful after years of exposure to rapid feminists they dare not think for themselves.

    The refuge movement is an anti male hate group. It has nothing to do with helping “battered women” and kids. That is a PR front to gain money and public sympathy, and is used to shame people into silence who question the vile hags.

    If you have any balls it is time to wake the fuck up and see what is right in front of your eyes.

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  168. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    Small things amuse small minds Muggy and you have a very small mind. We all know don’t we which sick minded individual has a sick fantasy with goat f…ing don’t we!!!

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  169. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    Judith (4,869 comments) says:
    January 18th, 2014 at 5:18 pm

    Rowan (1,449 comments) says:
    January 18th, 2014 at 5:29 pm

    Both of you need to get real and focus on the substance of the police response to the Binnie report . The only crime Counterspin have committed was to reproduce it in full.
    The list much like the 1997 PCA report.? In what ways precisely.?
    Both of you have obviously failed and never read it which is obvious and not surprising . I guess the price one plays for cult membership.
    As you will see from the report and elsewhere there was much, much more that Binnie did get wrong than the 10 shot magazine that left the Compo claim such an utter “train wreck,”

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  170. nasska (11,827 comments) says:

    Kea

    I suspect that there’s a fair dollop of “positive discrimination” or a similar buzz term at play. I was waiting, then waiting some more for the refuge workers to be charged with something but nothing ever occurred nor was an explanation made public.

    More amazing is that none of the people closely associated with the case ever asked why.

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  171. nasska (11,827 comments) says:

    Rowan

    Sick? :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8u4qqq5a7c9bnw6/Goat%201.png

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  172. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    Now,now Rowan who actually started this whole fiasco about a deviant act with a goat.?
    The Binnie report of course.!

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  173. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    nasska, imagine for a moment the hysterical response from the media [and refuge hate group] if the genders were reversed !

    Imagine the fuss if an anti women hate group participated in burying a victim of domestic violence so the male attacker could escape prosecution, and the hate group was not charged.

    There would be a massive media campaign and an enquiry. Petitions would be circulated, books written and documentaries made.

    Laws would be quickly passed that further eroded the rights of males. It would be epic.

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  174. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    Yes Nasska
    Muggins is a very sick minded individual who gets highly aroused at the thought of banging a goat, He appears to be rather amused by the goat story, in the suppressed Bain evidence, as I say small things amuse small minds.

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  175. SPC (5,787 comments) says:

    Kea, if you were on your A game you would have posted this.

    nasska, you missed this on the general thread yesterday evening.

    SPC (3,850 comments) says:
    January 17th, 2014 at 11:00 pm

    Something that might interest nasska and those seeking to understand the struggle that those who create jokes go through.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-25747068

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  176. nasska (11,827 comments) says:

    SPC

    ….”However, there has been little research on whether comedians have some of the traits – in a healthy form – associated with psychosis (delusions or hallucinations that can be present in schizophrenia and bipolar disorder).”…..

    Possibly right but I refuse to surrender myself for treatment until the research is finalised. :)

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  177. SPC (5,787 comments) says:

    Kea, the perpetrator of domestic violence against a spouse usually top themselves after the murder.

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  178. Chuck Bird (4,929 comments) says:

    @nasska, it has been some time since I met Gardner’s siblings or read the transcript. I think the reason the dykes were not charged was some sort of plea bargain and/or helping with info information. I may a point of mentioning they were man hating dykes at that particular refuge. I am pretty sure they were not supported by the national refuge movement.

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  179. SPC (5,787 comments) says:

    nasska, you could use this line “the creative process for great art, literature and music and comedy is a tortured path and borne as a contribution to the greater good”. “Much like eating sugarless gummy bears”.

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  180. nasska (11,827 comments) says:

    Points noted Kea. Years ago my better half had to sort out the mess after one of our daughter’s friends was shacked up with some useless arsehole who bashed the shit out of her. The local Women’s Refuge was involved & the Mrs remarked at the time that the women she had to deal with were a bunch of butch lesbians.

    I suspect that at some stage they became political & activist.

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  181. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    I have actually read the police response Stephie and it is a load of bollocks written with the soul purpose of exonerating the police. That you would place great faith in it as ‘evidence’ says a lot, tell me how is it relevant if Maarten Klentjies is a police or DSIR employee? that was one of the ‘errors’ stated and has about as much substance as the rest of its claims.
    I belong to no cult or group of pedo worshippers like JFRB, I am expressing my ‘individual’ views and am not a member of any ‘group’ of any kind. Yes I see we are now on to ‘train wreck’ along with ‘mountain of evidence’ and ‘fundamentally flawed’
    that you clearly have no idea of the meaning of.
    We shall see in regards to the upcoming court decision as to counterspins crimes. Not looking to good for Kent is it! are you/CS contributing to a fund for him? as he will very soon be needing it.

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  182. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    SPC, the men do, not the women.

    The women do not because they are not pushed as far as the men before they lose it. The men are desperate, frustrated and see no hope.

    The women know they can kill their male partners then instantly play the role of victim. They will receive support, sympathy and maybe even write a book. They will be considered heros.

    That is how sick our society has become.

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  183. nasska (11,827 comments) says:

    Chuck

    You would think that their cooperation would have to be pivotal to the case to get a serious crime such as aiding & abetting swept under the carpet.

    I still think it smells.

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  184. SPC (5,787 comments) says:

    The kea is ranked as the 9th most intelligent animal one place below gingers (orangutan)

    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140117-top-ten-smart-animals

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  185. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    The local Women’s Refuge was involved & the Mrs remarked at the time that the women she had to deal with were a bunch of butch lesbians.

    I suspect that at some stage they became political & activist.

    I once did some voluntary work for them [sic] !. Yes full of man hating dykes, with one or two exceptions, though the bull dykes ran the show/wore the pants.

    They did not become political and activist. They were that from the start. I read that the founders wrote a book where they revealed their motivations for starting the hate group. It was more to do with destruction of traditional family and promoting lesbianism. They are more about hating men than helping women.

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  186. SPC (5,787 comments) says:

    Kea, only if you overlook the fact that the men who killed had no plausible self defence line.

    It’s simply a symptom of their failure of self control – the men could not delay self-gratification enough to keep their women happy so resorted to abuse to keep them under control instead.

    No wonder lesbians saw these women as new recruits, they had never been satisfied.

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  187. nasska (11,827 comments) says:

    ….”They are more about hating men than helping women.”….

    If they started out that way then at least in the early years they were discrete about the agenda. They also did some much needed work in getting families away from drunken, violent arseholes.

    I tend towards the theory that well intentioned hetero women were eased out at some stage & the lesbian sisterhood took over.

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  188. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    SPC, only if you overlook the fact that the women who killed had no plausible self defence line.

    …the women could not delay self-gratification enough to keep their men happy.

    Dear oh dear SPC. Grow some balls ;)

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  189. SPC (5,787 comments) says:

    nasska, I would have thought it more likely that those involved included all sorts of women at all stages from the beginning to now. The balance at any one place compared to the rest being a variable.

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  190. nasska (11,827 comments) says:

    A farmer goes in half with a friend to buy a bull so he can increase his stock. A couple of weeks later the friend comes by to see how his investment is doing. The farmer complains that the bull just eats grass and won’t look at the cows. His friend suggests that a veterinarian have a look at the bull.

    The following week his friend returns to see if the vet helped. The farmer looks delighted “The bull has taken care of all my cows, broke through the fence, and has even serviced all my neighbour’s cows!” “Wow” says his friend “what did the vet do to that bull?” “Just gave him some pills'” said the farmer.

    “What kind of pills?” asked his friend. “I don’t know, but they sort of taste like peppermint”.

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  191. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ stephieboy (317 comments) says:
    January 18th, 2014 at 7:20 pm

    I have read it, studied it in detail, and aren’t so stupid as to believe that just because it was written on Police letter head that it must be right.

    As I pointed out to you in the example I gave. One of the points on the police list is that the Police Manual at the time of the murders did not recommend certain actions – they were wrong. The Police manual at the time – which was put in the evidence in the trials by the Police shows that those instructions must be done. The police were not aware of their own evidence – they are the ones who put the manual in the evidence!!!

    As far as I know Counterspin haven’t committed any crimes, although it could be argued that the owner of the site may be guilty of criminal acts if his defamation is seen to be that way legally.

    You are an idiot if you believe any of the material on that site. As you have just demonstrated, you do not know what you are talking about. I can assure you I know the Bain evidence in great detail, and it is easy to see by your answer, that you don’t.

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  192. kowtow (8,784 comments) says:

    FESter

    Pure bollox?Didn’t read the link then?

    And have a listen.Prof of History Trinity,Eunan O’Halpin……you might learn a thing or two.

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  193. nasska (11,827 comments) says:

    I’m not too sure that Kea’s not spot on SPC. There’s definitely a more activist side to the entire movement & it has an anti male bias.

    Advocacy & activism seem to be the top priority.

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  194. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ stephieboy (317 comments) says:
    January 18th, 2014 at 7:29 pm

    More ignorance from you, which is starting to sound a tad like jealousy.

    Binnie’s report gives very little detail about the incident involving the goat – which is of great distress to Muggins and his witch sniffing friends. The fact is they don’t know the evidence behind that story, or how the story eventuated. Those of us that do know it, have decided not to tell him, because we just love the way he goes to such lengths to make up what he doesn’t know.

    You do realise that the site Counterspin is full of ‘information’ that is not taken from official sources and made up by people that don’t know what the hell they’re talking about, don’t you? but of course you know that – you are clearly another blinded by KP’s lies. Too stupid to look objectively at a list on police letterhead.

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  195. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    “Rowan the facts remain the Binnie report was found to totally unacceptable for a number of substantial and very sound reasons.But one was Bain giving a contradictory and inconsistent account of his actions. But one notorious example was trying .explain to Binnie his bloody gloves found in Stephen’s room. As some one observed here , that explanation alone should lose him the compo claim.”

    Stephie, clearly the police repesentation present at Binnies interview of David clearly didn’t have any issue with the answers David gave else they would have requested he be questioned further on them, but I am forgetting you clearly know the case much better than them, don’t you?

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  196. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    Judith,

    Judith Counterspin committed a criminal act .? I thought Kent Parker was the subject of a civil action for defamation.?
    The police actions or inactions per Detective manual have little to do with the incorrect claims made by Binnie about their investigation.
    But one classic is Binnie’s incorrect claim that they were responsible for the burning down of the house.The executors of the estate were .
    David’s had told the police in 1994 that he had walked in the area where the footprints in blood were found, contrary to Binnie’s claim .
    Stephen had died from three bullet wounds to his head.? Incorrect he died from one shot to the head and one through his hand that creased his scalp causing a wound to the top of he is head.
    Brinded’s evidence that David had no predisposition to murder . Wrong again ,! Brinded stated David had no diagnose of mental illness – he did not say he had no predisposition to murder .
    And it goes on and and much,much more than Binnies incorrect claim about the empty 10 shot magazine .
    Rowan the record is that David told Binnie in explaining the Bloody gloves found in his Brother’s room that it could be that Stephen was actually wearing them as he liked pretend play.
    Evidently Binnie believed this rubbish.
    Sheesh.!!!
    I rest my case.!

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  197. Steve (North Shore) (4,596 comments) says:

    Went to the Chinese New Year show today at Greenlane . Guess what? the food was amazing, the kids were smiling and happy, (no whinging)
    So many happy people. I never saw even one kid having a tantrum, unlike the malls on the Shore – and other malls that allow kids in.
    Queen charlotte scollops are just …. never mind, no photo

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  198. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    Stephie
    If I was to list the incorrect claims made on counterspin we would be here all night, as evidentialy there are none, you try to imply and infer the most sinister explanations for everything but the inferences are completely unsupported by the evidence.
    Just as a start the estate could not have authorised the burning down of the house had it not been given back to them by the police.
    You are an novice Stephie and if you think that Marzukas pathetic computer comedy simulation without any measurements accurately or evidentialy explains Robins ‘murder’ then you are nuts and I rest my case.

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  199. Nostalgia-NZ (5,283 comments) says:

    Yes, you should rest your case stephieboy. After all it has only been a week since you told us the JR was under appeal. Which is a bit like your mentor’s claims that dna remains in the rifle barrel from a close contact shot despite subsequent shots being fired. Are you aware various parties have been sued as the result of people such as yourself and Fanny linking to that site from where you gather your compost droppings?

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  200. nasska (11,827 comments) says:

    I like. :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/78wn6j4axm22foq/HTML.jpg

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  201. Reid (16,640 comments) says:

    stephie’s another Kea, doesn’t understand his subjects, thinks, nay is convinced he does, isn’t prepared to listen to alternatives. Not worth engaging with. Just like Kea.

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  202. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    Very true Reid

    Nosty you are making far to much sense and your post contains far to much truth for Fanny and Stephieboy.

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  203. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @stephieboy (318 comments) says:
    January 18th, 2014 at 8:49 pm

    You clearly have some sort of comprehension problem. The question was regarding the police’s list of things wrong with the report – for which you think is perfect. I provided you with an example which shows that the list is not perfect, so rather than admit you’re wrong, you instead go off on some other tangent, I suppose trying to detract people from the fact that you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.

    I didn’t say Counterspin had done anything criminal, but I did infer that maybe one might consider certain acts of defamation could be considered criminal if they were proved to have been done with intent to cause harm – that of course might be something for future consideration, because as you digressed (in your attempt to pull the attention away from the fact you are ignorant to facts in the Bain case and Binnie report) the current defamation case is not a criminal one.

    Now please, instead of going for the FW title of the week, why don’t you run along and play with Kenty – unless of course he’s too busy playing with himself.

    PS I remember who used to end their posts with ‘I rest my case’ ! ;-)

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  204. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    I stand corrected . A decision has apparently been made not to appeal the decline in application for the privileged emails . But the Judicial review itself will possibly be pursued.
    Updates please.?

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/nbpol/1926184885-collins-seems-satisfied-with-bain-ruling

    This could take a very long time to resolve as any decision to grant comp is in essence a political one of a discretionary kind and not a judicial one.
    Rowan are you you arguing now that the police did not give 65 Every St back to the Executors of the estate.?
    The basis of your claim with links and sources please .?
    Now for the rest of the claims Binnie got wrong re police.?
    Playing with Kenty.?Oh judith you are a childish prat , now aren’t you just .?
    Is that the sum total of your reasoning powers .?

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  205. wreck1080 (3,972 comments) says:

    “She had been sentenced to three years and nine months in jail in 2009 after admitting that she violently shook her four-month-old son in “a moment of madness,” leaving him permanently brain-damaged.

    So, what does she do after she gets released from jail…

    “The charges followed a dramatic incident on August 15, 2012, when Albert drove her car into her uncle on Wakefield Quay in Nelson, crushing him against a pole and severing his right leg.”

    This piece of trash needs to be put down IMHO.

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  206. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    “Rowan are you you arguing now that the police did not give 65 Every St back to the Executors of the estate.?”

    Thats not what I said dimwit, and I am under no obligation to repost anything just for your benefit. You are not that important to me.

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  207. F E Smith (3,307 comments) says:

    kowtow,

    nope, didn’t read it. I am, however, well aware of the history of the uprising, war for independence, and the civil war that followed the ratification of the treaty.

    I am not going to agree with you. There was no viable constitutional option available to the Irish at the time, the First World War having curtailed the implementation of Asquith’s bill to provide it. The moment Lloyd George came to power there was little chance of it being implemented as passed, indeed the War for Independence was really the only thing that forced his hand, as he was busy playing both sides against each other. Edward Carson and James Craig were firmly set against it and their influence in the North was enormous. Indeed, I note that the Ulster Volunteers had armed themselves even before the IRB/IV did.

    I haven’t watched the video, but I might later. I would just point out that the good professor is resident at Trinity College, Dublin, a firmly Protestant and Unionist college during the Uprising and War for Independence, and still very much orientated that way even today. Don’t get me wrong, I like Trinity a lot and have spent many a happy hour there with friends enjoying the atmosphere and the history that pervades the place. The unionist viewpoint is still very strong at Trinity, however, as evidenced by the large numbers of Northern Irish who attend. I don’t pretend it is as strong as it used to be, but it is still there.

    I am not blind to the atrocities of the time, but unlike you I don’t put the entire blame on the IRB.

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  208. Nostalgia-NZ (5,283 comments) says:

    Little point in ‘standing’ corrected stephieboy if following with something else which is also wrong. But forgetting about the derivatives for now, would you explain how the burning of the house is material to Robin having blood smears on his palms and his dna inside the barrel. That’s really what the case is about, the person who had blood on their palms.

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  209. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    Rowan am now glad you now accept the police got it right and Binnie wrong re the burning of the house as per police response,

    Para 57 Police author/sed the burning down of the house

    Police were in no position to authorise anything regarding the house- it had been handed back to the Trustees.

    Nostalgia, just pointing our the numerous egregious errors and incorrect assumptions Binnie made about the police investigation.
    The alleged blood smears on Robin’s hands were actually small and insignificant. if they were copious then it could not explain why he did not leave identifiable fingerprints like David and Stephen did.Or did he wipe the gun down before shooting himself.?
    I understand the blood was actually at the tip of the barrel.
    Was it ever tested for DNA.?
    Yes or No.?
    Do note also that Philip Boyce agreed under cross examination that a close contact shot could not rule out homicide .

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  210. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Reid (14,701 comments) says:
    January 18th, 2014 at 9:18 pm
    stephie’s another Kea, doesn’t understand his subjects, thinks, nay is convinced he does, isn’t prepared to listen to alternatives. Not worth engaging with. Just like Kea.

    Another words you have nothing to refute my views, so you launch personal attacks.

    Try doing the decent thing for once Reid. There is no god to forgive your bullshit.

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  211. Nostalgia-NZ (5,283 comments) says:

    A mishmash of nothing unfortunately stephieboy.

    The police prematurely ‘releasing’ the house to be ‘burnt’ is neither the fault of the family or David.

    ‘Small and insignificant’ smears on blood on palms of a suspected killer, really? Smears are never ‘copious,’ they show that Robin had blood on his palms that didn’t get there from praying, but rather from handling something bloody, a bloody fight – you get the picture. Do you know what a laboratory smear is for example? Do you think it is a flood of some sort? How did the get there? What bloody deeds was Robin up to that morning to get ‘blood wash’ on his palms.

    You may ‘understand’ that blood was in the tip of the barrel. Even if that was true it had already needed to travel the length of the silencer to get there. The dna could only have arrived there from the last shot, a insurmountable problem for you I fear. Robin leaned his head against the rifle and shot himself, resulting in his brain matter being sucked deep down inside the barrel. But I guess you already know that. Of course a close contact shot cannot not rule out homicide but the absence of ‘shielding’ in the blood spatter does. Who is feeding you this nonsense? Don’t you consider what you are writing, frankly, it’s desperate.

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  212. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    stephieboy, yes indeed. I don’t mind the personal attacks, as it adds a bit of spice to things. But some sort of attempt to address the point should be included.

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  213. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Robin leaned his head against the rifle and shot himself, resulting in his brain matter being sucked deep down inside the barrel.

    So the blood was “sucked” into the gun, against the exiting blast of expanding gas ?

    Wow LOL :)

    As someone who is interested in firearms, I would love to hear you explain that one in more detail…

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  214. Nostalgia-NZ (5,283 comments) says:

    It’s creates a vacuum kea, like inside your head.

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  215. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    Nosty lets just have a look at what Stephie and CS cannot explain in the Bain case
    1. How Robin was shot by anyone other than himself.
    2. Robins death scene in any meaingful way consistent with ‘murder’ whatsoever
    3. The blood and bruising on Robins hands.
    4. How blood in the barrel of a rifle can stay there after the weapon has been fired subsequently.
    5. Robins bloody footprints in the murder scene.
    6. Kim Jones ‘bloody’ fingerprint ‘evidence’.
    7. The gurgling by Laniet.
    8. Robins blood on the green towel in the laundry.
    9. The marks on his fingers consistent with the magazine and gunpowder residue.
    10. Pretty much anything at all relating to the murder-suicide at Every Street

    Thats the top 10 that comes to my mind, in contrast the only thing the defence cannot explain is the rational behind what Robin was thinking i.e. the ‘why’ questions which can never be satisfactorily answered.

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  216. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    Oh Nostalgia do give up will you.!
    Oh I see the police now “prematurely ” released the the house to the trustees.That’s a highly novel approach one which you can onviously document.
    But the blood spots and flecks were in fact small and insignificant as per Detective Lodges testimony ,

    a smear of blood on heal of thumb inside left hand
    a smear of blood on left little finger
    no blood on right hand
    a splash of blood on nail of second right finger
    a spot of blood on outside of left thunb
    scrapings from under Robins fingernails containing possible blood, were also noted by Mr. Hentschel but were to small a sample for blood group analysis

    Handling something bloody ,? Purely speculative like the alleged blood wash and inconsistent with the above.
    And why would Robin need to wash his hands if committing murder/ suicide.?
    Oh I see the old going to meet his maker canard concocted by the Defence at the retrial.?
    Again was the blood at tip tip of the barrel analyzed for DNA.?
    Yes or no,?
    Where did this so called ” shielding ” come from.?
    Manlove, Lloyd .? Did Boyce raise this to preclude homicide under cross examination.?
    If not, why not.?

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  217. Nostalgia-NZ (5,283 comments) says:

    Fortunately Rowan, we can ask Kea what Robin was thinking – once of course, he gets that vacuum out of his head.

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  218. Nostalgia-NZ (5,283 comments) says:

    Did you know stephieboy that the police ‘released’ the house to be burnt down, because they were concerned it might be burnt down. You would understand that.

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  219. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    Stephie
    If you are going to attempt to do what the crown couldn’t and explain Robins death meaingfully, then you are going to need to be specific in trying to refute Boyce and Manloves evidence, and you are going to need to do a hell of a lot better than that comedy cartoon by Marzuka and stupid CS arguments such as ‘the judge allowed Karam to assist Boyce in his demonstration’ and ‘defence needed headgear to show how easy it was’. That is laughable. If there is a second report maybe you and he could explain your fictitious scenarios to the reviewer. They could do with the laugh.

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  220. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    Rowan your lot are the desperate ones as the compo claim remains ever elusive and ever unlikely .
    The blood and bruising on Robin’s hands.?
    As outlined the amount blood on his hands was minuscule and the bruising to his right hand was insignificant .
    The blood at the tip of the barrel was never analyzed and there is nothing to say it could not remain there despite subsequent firing.
    Robin’s bloody foot prints at the crime scene. ? Highly contentious and debatable.
    Kim Jones did not mislead anyone. Thats a fiction invented by the probainers to explain away the fact he had the advantage of examining David’s pristine prints the following day after the murders . Lloyd and others did not.
    Laniet’s gurgling .? The defense went to great lengths to try and explain this one away.
    Robin’s blood on the green towel.? David’s blood was found on his duvet cover. Your point .?
    The marks consistent with gunpowder residue.? Thar is again a highly contentious point originated by a person who incorrectly claimed he had an unbiased interest in the case.
    The whys of Robin’s thinking and state of mind .
    Well maybe he ,in fact, is innocent after all. !

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  221. Nostalgia-NZ (5,283 comments) says:

    You’re getting pretty funny now stephieboy. Can you explain where the tip of the barrel was in context of the silencer, that might help you calm down. Then perhaps you could have a lol with Sister Kea about dna arriving in the barrel. That would be fun.

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  222. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    Rowan (1,458 comments) says:
    January 18th, 2014 at 11:14 pm
    But the real joke is that Boyce did concede that a close contact shot as per his demo could not preclude homicide.
    And, of course ,Robin choosing shoot himself in the most awkward way possible.!
    Mazuraka. ?You explain then how Robin’s body got to be over by the Bean bag.?
    I never thought a .22 could have such recoil and force like say a 308 or shot gun.
    And the evidence he actually had put his foot on that chair. ? Shoe marks, blood etc.??

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  223. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    Nostalgia are now saying there was no blood at either at the tip of the silencer or inside it.?

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  224. Nostalgia-NZ (5,283 comments) says:

    errh, no. Robin’s blood was through the silencer and deep inside the barrel as the result of his suicide.

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  225. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    The question referred to how blood was sucked into a gun barrel while hot expanding gas and a projectile exited it at around 1000 fps.

    The DB supporters reply: ‘It’s creates a vacuum kea, like inside your head.’

    It pretty much sums up the level of thinking you see with DB supporters. I am not interested in DB. I just want to know about this suction effect. I have shot many thousands of rounds in a variety of firearms. I have read far more than most about the physics of it all. Yet I have never heard of this.

    I am not convinced by Nostalgia’s explanation.

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  226. Nostalgia-NZ (5,283 comments) says:

    Well, of course you are Kea and you have no explanation to the contrary.

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  227. lazza (387 comments) says:

    Well Yes Kea … you are! THE (in this case, and in part my) “point”.

    General Debate is “General” and the key topic/message (leave out the gratuitous abuse both from Kea and his opponents) is worthy of a thorough airing.

    I applaud the warning from “Slim Dave” … that Kea is getting close to an abusive and a generally well understood “line.” But DPF blessim, for the moment, in the interests of the importance of the topic allows the debate to roll on. Goodonyuh.

    The really worthwhile “point” of Kea’s tirades, though admittedly well masked with vitriol or worse, is that the debate about “Who is at Fault?” in domestic violence cases should! be widely debated. Here’s my penny’sworth.

    1. I generally concede that the majority (I almost said “vast”) are perpetrated by men …

    2. In all matters of human affairs there are always two sides to the arguments/conflicts that lead to the violence bit …

    3. It is the role played in the exacerbation-excalation of these issues leading to violence of the “other” party that is hardly ever acknowledged or allowed for (notice I say “other” party who could be of either! sex).

    4. It is however the standoff between the obvious opinionated position- takers (Kea for the males V Feminists for the women) who tend to dominate the debate.

    4. “F Off “I say to”both” Kea and the Fem’s … but let’s not please leave out the issue of feminine culpability (BTW NOTHING! to do with the facts of the Dunedin killings please note) … and thereby allow a proper (General) and reasoned debate on the subject to proceed.

    5. And what do I think? Well men deservedly get most of the blame .. the stats on this do not lie. It is difficult from the sidelines not to observe that there is a bias of process here … where violence of a male and the woman’s! role in these situations is rarely even mentioned let alone accounted for.

    6. Result: “NOT fair” … and hardly surprising really when horrible consequnces sometimes follow as these are often motivated (it is difficult not to conclude ) due to the perceived/actual unfairness to a male in (usually) custody disputes.

    So Go Figger! that is, for situations relating to a “balanced” assessment …THINK … of the roles that BOTH partners have played in a breakdown are not being “fairly” weighed … OK?

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  228. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    Stephie
    Your pathetic attempts to explain anything are as usual, laughable and 0.00000% convincing.
    Robin did not choose ‘the most awkward way possible’ that is a lie used by JFRB, Dr Dempster agreed there was no required contortions, the temple is the most common place for suicide wounds and a close contact wound is around 95% more likely to be suicide, hence you have a long way to go to explain this.

    “You explain then how Robin’s body got to be over by the Bean bag.?”

    Depends entirely on the final position he was in i.e. how close to the chair, you idiots (with no measurements) try to say he ‘must’ have been blasted 3+ metres, ridiculous.

    “And the evidence he actually had put his foot on that chair. ? Shoe marks, blood etc.??”

    It is one scenario used by Boyce, there were several.

    As usual Stephieboy, you resort to “you explain”, when asked questions that you obviously have no answer to.

    “Kim Jones did not mislead anyone”

    Yeah right , nice one, Stephie does blood fluoresce under a polilight? Kim Jones seems to think it does and told the 1995 jury it did! In 2009 he admitted that it didn’t, therefore what he told the 1995 jury was wrong, intentionally or otherwise. Therefore the jury was misled, dunce. Also he told the retrial jury that fingerprint ridge definition is enhanced under pressure. Is this true, try it by making a fingerprint on something, make two and in the second one really press down hard applying significant pressure, which print has better ridge detail? Its not hard to work out the answer even for an arrogant dunce like yourself.

    “Well maybe he ,in fact, is innocent after all.”

    Yes and maybe pigs really can fly, its obvious to around 70% of the population that he isn’t, the others are just stupid or in denial.

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  229. nickb (3,696 comments) says:

    Sheesh, the Bainiacs are out in force.

    I wouldn’t bother Kea, although I admire your tenacity. The Bainiacs tend to bog you down in completely irrelevant minutiae, whilst smokescreening the debate with abuse when you bring up the numerous smoking guns (if you’ll pardon the pun) like David Bain’s 25 minute delay in calling 111 whilst he washed his bloody clothes…LMAO

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  230. Nostalgia-NZ (5,283 comments) says:

    You always make that claim nickb but never produce the proof. So what’s irrelevant about the blood smears on your idol’s hands. As has been said before it’s a test of idiocy, you excel.

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  231. corrigenda (142 comments) says:

    You must remember that when it comes to domestic violence, for every bastard, there is a toxic woman, who when the chips are down, will smile sweetly at some elderly judge who can’t take his eyes off her boobs, and who will give her everything she asks for, despite ample documented evidence to the contrary!!!

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  232. Manolo (14,086 comments) says:

    David Bain is innocent and did not kill anyone. It’s all a conspiracy, a campaign against this saintly man jointly organised by the FSB (former KGB) and CIA.

    David is pure, as his acolytes Judith and Rowan can confirm. Whiter than blood red colour.

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  233. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    corrigenda, one of the better informed comments today.

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  234. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    nickb, my only interest is in the suction of muzzle blasts. ;)

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