General Debate 19 January 2014

January 19th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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75 Responses to “General Debate 19 January 2014”

  1. big bruv (13,901 comments) says:

    Has Len Brown resigned yet?
    Has Penny Bright paid her rates yet?

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  2. Scott Chris (6,139 comments) says:

    Interesting article on ACT leadership contender Jamie Whyte. Sounds like he’d appeal to a lot of KB commenters – hell he’s even an AGW denier by the sounds of things:

    But you want some plain speaking? Here’s what he thinks of his putative future colleagues, the good members of the Parliament of New Zealand.

    For some, he says, “shamefully, it’s just that it’s the best job they are capable of getting . . . they have no particular talents, somehow they have managed to get in with their party and get elevated and they are as happy as a pig in shit. Otherwise, they would be working in the food industry [think McDonald's] or cleaning.”

    Still others, he says scornfully, are the ideology-free, poorly-read “Tory boy” types who think they are the “shepherds of society”.

    My money’s on Boscawen.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9625583/ACT-hopefuls-jostle-for-party-leadership

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  3. Reid (16,467 comments) says:

    SR-71 in-flight breakup + a few more stories from links at bottom

    http://www.barthworks.com/aviation/sr71breakup.htm

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  4. duggledog (1,558 comments) says:

    No BB he hasn’t resigned yet. Brown was on TV last night opening the Panmure Station with 99% adoring fans and one or two hecklers. He’s not going to resign either.

    He is the epitome of obstinate. He won’t go. Most people won’t if they’ve got nowhere to go to

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  5. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    Posted without comment [Grasshopper]

    http://nofrakkingconsensus.com/2014/01/17/the-invisible-judith-curry/

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  6. Reid (16,467 comments) says:

    He is the epitome of obstinate.

    He is the epitome of narcissistic – he doesn’t think he should go. With the Herald’s stance and most Aucklanders (and most NZer’s who have an opinion on it) not backing him, and more to come from Whale, he will be forced out. But he’ll be forced, he won’t go voluntarily.

    Lookup ‘narcissistic personality disorder’ and tick off the symptoms – fits him to a T. It’s a bit like borderline personality disorder but not as pleasant.

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  7. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    Reid,

    I think a person with real integrity would go of their own volition. It think they will [figuratively] prise Len’s dead fingers from the Mayoral chain

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  8. WineOh (630 comments) says:

    Total RORT here, and appears another city council can’t do basic maths.

    Hawkes Bay Regional council has “sold” its income rights on a 600 leasehold properties for $37 million. Short-sighted in the extreme. There should be a total uproar by the local residents and rate payers. How is this not a national scandal?

    The income on the properties is $1.78 million per year, expected to increase to $3.6 million per year within 8 years time. ACC will receive all the income for 50 years from 600+ properties and the Council retains all the administration burden of dealing with lease inquiries.

    Now even with a pocket calculator I can see that this is an extremely poor deal for Hawkes Bay ratepayers. Even with zero adjustment in rents over 50 years, they are receiving $37M upfront for the loss of $89M in income. If you take an inflation adjustment its more like $200M in lost income over this period. If you increase the rents over time in line with the expectations mentioned in the article it gets WAY worse. Even allowing a generous discount rate of 6%+ of future cashflows, this is an appalling investment decision from the council.

    I guess I am personally slightly better off as an ACC levy payer, rather than a resident or property owner in Hawkes Bay.

    “An ACC spokeswoman said the income stream provided “secure inflation linked long-term cashflows which are an excellent match with the long-term liabilities of ACC”.

    … no shit… you got 50 years of guaranteed easy money for a pittance.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/hawkes-bay/9624041/Council-pockets-37m-as-ACC-buys-lease-fees

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  9. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    Has Swan coffed up the money he defrauded from the Otago Hospital Board yet?
    Iz the old frauf Allan Hubbard in Hell? In Hubbards case I think he suffered from narcisstic personality disorder. With those types the family are the first victims.

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  10. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    @ WineO

    I often wonder how dealing with the Chc earthquake would have panned out if the Canterbury Association still owned all the land.

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  11. Nostalgia-NZ (5,211 comments) says:

    Despite some work to do looking forward to the BC v India today, great opportunity for the BCs to test themselves against a well performing team. And, although I don’t generally follow soccer, The Phoenix have obviously found the ignite button for their season.

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  12. Sidey (250 comments) says:

    WineOh at 9:04 am
    Total RORT here, and appears another city council can’t do basic maths.

    WineOh, me thinks you haven’t accounted for the time value of money? As in a dollar today is worth more than that dollar in the future. If we assume no rental increase, as per your example, the present value of the $1.78m pa income stream for 50 years is say $33m using a 5% discount rate. So on that basis the $37m they sold for looks reasonable, assuming of course they can achieve a long-run net return of 5% of the funds. Which is another question altogether and one that would never be back tested in 50 years to see if they did or not.

    If HBRC is anything like most councils, I’d suggest not!

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  13. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    Jamie Whyte is very clever but at the end of the day he has a certain model of how the world works. It all comes down to that model. My guess is that he sees nature as a subset of the world ecomomy (not vice versa).

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  14. OneTrack (3,107 comments) says:

    hj, everybody has a certain model of how the world works.

    I guess you are saying your model is different than Jamie Whytes? And that your model is better?

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  15. notrotsky (84 comments) says:

    DPF you may want to take The Standard to task and ask them to moderate their comments as there’s some fairly foul slander about you over there by some of the trolls.

    http://thestandard.org.nz/scoop-and-whaleoil-a-tale-of-two-websites/#comment-759175

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  16. peterwn (3,273 comments) says:

    big bruv – give it time. The rock has not moved towards the hard place during the holiday season, but it has just resumed its slow motion – it is still blooming painful whatever the speed of the rock.

    As for Penny, again there is no hurry. The council is in a similar position to an undertaker, it will get the money plus compounded penalties in the fulness of time when the property is sold or re-mortgaged.

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  17. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    See Tv are giving the Lech a free ride, must be obeying their political masters. Who was the Labour looking and sounding Pom they gave main exposure . . . a mate of Mike Williams no doubt!

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  18. Scott Chris (6,139 comments) says:

    I guess you are saying your model is different than Jamie Whytes?

    Mine is. I factor in true cost. The environment isn’t free.

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  19. WineOh (630 comments) says:

    Actually I did look at a discount rate of 5% If you also assume an inflation adjustment of +1.5% on rental incomes then the NPV of incomes is still $43.6M.

    However the expectation is for rents to increase to $3.6M by 2022 (8 years away), and if I make no other adjustments on the percentages above changes NPV to about $70.2M. So it effectively means the council is giving away half its value.

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  20. dirty harry (489 comments) says:

    2 things make me sick here. No one offered assistance and the scum got bail ! FFS !!

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9625588/I-was-screaming-help-me-I-don-t-know-this-man

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  21. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    Scott,

    Mine is. I factor in true cost. The environment isn’t free.

    I’m sure you like to imagine your model is better, but it most probably isn’t.

    Dealing with externalities is, after all, an important concept in economic thinking.

    What you’re probably talking about is deciding what is and what is not an externality. And there, as many here will know, you absolutely part company with reality (as will as with honesty and integrity.)

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  22. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    One track
    The fact that we have a unique world view (model) is what needs investigating before we begin an argument. You may not agree with a Catherine Delanunty but if you saw the model of the world percieved by her it may make perfect sence. Likewize the world of our brightest people is skewed by their ease of achievement.

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  23. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    “DPF you may want to take The Standard to task and ask them to moderate their comments as there’s some fairly foul slander about you over there by some of the trolls.

    http://thestandard.org.nz/scoop-and-whaleoil-a-tale-of-two-websites/#comment-759175

    those losers are hilarious. they are kind of a mixture of bitter and stupid. they seem to think they are shock jocks too.

    they just come across like the guys in a workplace who have been there for 20 years, they are poor workers but do just enough, the sort who love to tell anyone who will listen that the “managers do nothing”.

    id put money on this too – all their wives will be filthy pigs :D

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  24. Manolo (13,778 comments) says:

    The “work” of a beast: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11188763

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  25. Morrissey (7 comments) says:

    David, there has been a lot of adverse comment about this joke you posted recently…..
    http://cdn.thestandard.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/DPF-Bain.jpg

    However unfunny and crass that joke may be, it is after all just a joke. But your behaviour has been actually much, much worse than that. Shortly after Israel’s mass slaughter of more than 1,400 people in Gaza, you accepted a trip to Israel paid for by the Israeli regime, which included a brief visit to illegally occupied East Jerusalem. With a display of resolute blindness and deafness, you reported that “things were generally very relaxed in this area”.
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/jerusalem.html

    Then, a few years later, you had the gall to attack Gareth and Jo Morgan for the same behaviour in another rogue state….
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-15092013/#comment-696521

    So what I and I’m sure many others would like to know is this: was your infamous “things were generally very relaxed comment” another example of your propensity for black humour? And did you tell that joke to any Palestinians on your flying visit? Or were they too terrified to come near your tour party?

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  26. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Morrissey, careful. Around here you get banned doing anything other that praising Jews in the highest possible terms. Even neutral and factual comments attract a flurry of down votes, if it is clearly not pro Jewish, with some Muslim hate thrown in for good measure.

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  27. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Manolo, yeah how sad.

    How many men were beaten up since then, but did not get a media outcry ?

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  28. dirty harry (489 comments) says:

    The biggest joke Manolo is that that toerag was bailed. No wonder people dont want to get involved…chances are the scumbag would return to the scene of the crime and attack the good Samaritan.

    Again..the justice system in NZ fails.

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  29. Gulag1917 (919 comments) says:

    Dime
    “they just come across like the guys in a workplace who have been there for 20 years, they are poor workers but do just enough, the sort who love to tell anyone who will listen that the “managers do nothing”.
    You are being too generous, how about adding a higher than average unemployment rate due to bad attitudes.

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  30. Morrissey (7 comments) says:

    Kea, your comments are wrong, and offensive. The problems in East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza are the result of an illegal military occupation, which has been condemned by the international community. Some of the most eloquent protests against Israel’s actions come from Jewish activists, both in Israel and beyond. And the victims of the occupation include Christians and Jews, not just Muslims.

    Why are you trying to portray this terrible crime as a Jewish-Muslim conflict? It’s not. You need to start reading seriously, my friend.

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  31. infused (654 comments) says:

    Off to get me a mc’ds thick shake. They are epic.

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  32. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    Dealing with externalities is, after all, an important concept in economic thinking.

    Wat says
    ……..
    in your world view all that sequested carbon doesn’t affect climate. That isn’t consistent with the facts and there’s a word for that…….

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  33. dirty harry (489 comments) says:

    Laws gives the finger…good on ya Lawsy…tell the sticky beaks to mind their own business.

    http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8785972/laws-accused-over-child-assault

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  34. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    Retired police detective inspector Graham Bell, presenter of Police Ten 7 on TV, said this,

    “Under the Crimes Act, bystanders are allowed to use “reasonable force in the defence of another person”, and do not have to wait until they have been attacked before taking action to protect themselves.”

    And then he let the cat out of the bag by adding this,

    “There’s a growing tendency for people to just not want to look over the fence or keep looking at the ground and just moving on.”

    They might be worried about being hurt, about repercussions from offenders, and not getting the back-up of courts if they intervened.

    The courts need to do more to back up people who do intervene in good faith.”

    Ding dong Bell should have said this, The Police need to do more to back up people who intervene in good faith. Instead he (the cops) passed the buck to “the courts” to provide the back-up if they intervened. Poxy cops, it’s no wonder people shy away from intervening.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11188763

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  35. Fairfacts Media (372 comments) says:

    Britain’s Daily Mail is reporting stories that the Obamas’ marriage is in trouble.
    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2014/01/reports_of_obama_marital_strife_break_out_of_the_national_enquirer_ghetto.html
    This follows the Australian last week reporting of marital strife since Michelle was staying longer in Hawaii rather than following hubby to Washington.
    There is talk now is some of the MSM now of Barry Obama indulging in ‘affairs’ .
    No word whether men or other women are involved, yet.
    The growing number of stories about the fraigility of the Obama’s marriage does make you wonder if all the other stories about Barry Obama liking guys might have some truth after all.
    Indeed, what other ‘ conspiracies’ might turn out to be factual.
    What will come out in the months and years ahead, we can only wonder.
    Obama was quite defensive and supportive of the NSA and its spying recently.
    It does make you wonder what Obama secrets they know and what Obama has to do to help the NSA keep his secrets secret!

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  36. nickb (3,687 comments) says:

    Great to see Milne make it into the XI at the expense of the over the hill pie thrower Kyle Mills.

    Excited to see India here, and I hope we give them a pasting to show the BCCI what corrupt greedy cunts they are for their current hostile takeover of the game. To those who haven’t heard:

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci-icc/content/story/710723.html

    And other stories on Circinfo front page…

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  37. nickb (3,687 comments) says:

    Off to get me a mc’ds thick shake. They are epic.

    I am shocked you would publicly admit to eating McDs infused. It is the T20 of fast food. Even Carls Jr is better if you are going for cheap and cheerful

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  38. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Kea, your comments are wrong, and offensive. The problems in East Jerusalem… blah blah blah

    Morrissey , calm down !

    1. I do not give a fuck if you claim to be “offended” you jumped up prick. Your emotional state is not important to me, or relevant to the topic.

    2. I only remarked on the typical response by other readers when that topic is raised on KB. All of your tirade came out of your own head and relates in no way to my comment.

    3. Get over yourself.

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  39. Fletch (6,390 comments) says:

    So yeh, scientists now are predicting another mini Ice Age.

    The Sun’s activity is at its lowest for 100 years, scientists have warned.

    They say the conditions are eerily similar to those before the Maunder Minimum, a time in 1645 when a mini ice age hit, Freezing London’s River Thames.

    Researcher believe the solar lull could cause major changes, and say there is a 20% chance it could lead to ‘major changes’ in temperatures.

    ‘Whatever measure you use, solar peaks are coming down,’ Richard Harrison of the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory in Oxfordshire told the BBC.

    ‘I’ve been a solar physicist for 30 years, and I’ve never seen anything like this.’

    He says the phenomenon could lead to colder winters similar to those during the Maunder Minimum.

    ‘There were cold winters, almost a mini ice age.

    ‘You had a period when the River Thames froze.’

    Last year Nasa warned ‘something unexpected’ is happening on the Sun’

    This year was supposed to be the year of ‘solar maximum,’ the peak of the 11-year sunspot cycle.

    But as this image reveals, solar activity is relatively low.

    ‘Sunspot numbers are well below their values from 2011, and strong solar flares have been infrequent,’ the space agency says.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2541599/Is-mini-ice-age-way-Scientists-warn-Sun-gone-sleep-say-cause-temperatures-plunge.html

    Better get that smog working now people!

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  40. Fletch (6,390 comments) says:

    Off to get me a mc’ds thick shake. They are epic.

    I’ve never tried this, but it’s supposed to be like a healthy equivalent of a Wendy’s frosty.

    3/4 cup almond milk

    1/2 tsp vanilla

    15 ice cubes

    1-2 Tbsp unsweetened cocoa powder

    1/3 of a banana

    I’m guessing you just blend it all up.

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  41. noskire (842 comments) says:

    Anyone know if the BlackCaps match is being streamed online?

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  42. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    The Sky fairy will rain on you if you don’t do what he wants.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-25793358

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  43. Fletch (6,390 comments) says:

    The Sky fairy will rain on you if you don’t do what he wants.

    “Christians don’t believe in a “sky-fairy”, whatever that might be, and if you believe that is what theism entails it’s no wonder you’re an atheist. We just simply don’t believe that human minds capable of rational thought and aesthetic and ethical judgement are simply random collocations of molecules existing in a Universe randomly thrown out into time and space going nowhere, meaning nothing, and slowly succumbing to entropic heat death.”

    -Andrew Kirke-

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  44. nickb (3,687 comments) says:

    Anyone know if the BlackCaps match is being streamed online?

    Shhhhhh….

    http://www.cricbox.nl/cricket/198235/1/new-zealand-vs-india-live-stream-online.html

    Bad quality but does the trick…although it is a bit buggy today, maybe due to India demand…

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  45. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Fletch, so you do not believe the incredible claims and stories of the Bible. Good to hear.

    So what does inform your belief ? (Given you wisely don’t believe in Sky Fairies)

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  46. wikiriwhis business (4,016 comments) says:

    “An ACC spokeswoman said the income stream provided “secure inflation linked long-term cashflows which are an excellent match with the long-term liabilities of ACC”.

    NZ Herald also publishes account of Nick smith manipulating ACC in favour of govts interest on case by case issues.

    The Herald has proved ACC will be manipulated by either govt according to it’s agendas.

    Of course no one mentions it on this blog.

    The more I learn the more I trust Penny Bright because the conspiracies are bough to light more and more

    So National has now openly revealed its plans to privatise ACC – clearly, the Government has been softening the public up for this for a while.

    http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/10/23/gutting-acc-national-flies-true-colours/

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  47. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Fletch, the story is about how gullible those who believe a story unsupported by evidence are, and how they presume that others are also gullible and thus vulnerable to threats.

    We could then discuss the lies told in custody disputes and how potential belief in those lies is used to intimidate.

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  48. Manolo (13,778 comments) says:

    Worshipping at Marie Antoinette’s altar: http://michellemalkin.com/2014/01/17/abc-has-news-you-can-use-50-ways-to-celebrate-michelle-obamas-birthday/

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  49. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    Renewed push fo rrcognition of multiculturalism in Oz
    “It’s a parhttp://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/12/23/renewed-push-recognition-multiculturalism-0 dox that if I look back historically to the 1970s and the 80s, it was far easier for immigrants, for refugees to actually arive in this country and get a job immediately. Jobs were much (more) easily available in those days, both in the private sectors as well as in the public sectors. We had a very thriving manufacturing industry at the time. It is a little bit more difficult for newly arrived and emerging communities as they arrive now because the labour
    …..
    Under globslisation jobs go east, people come west, living standards go east.

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  50. MH (757 comments) says:

    It appears the unprovoked attack on the lady Pravit Singh in papatoetoe was in an Indian” enclave’ with over a dozen of her compatriots who witnessed the assault but did not intervene,one even continued to wash his car. Does this mean they have a cultural tolerance of men beating up women or this is endemic and typical of NZ society?

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  51. stephieboy (3,091 comments) says:

    Manolo ,another of your rather dreary ,neurotic and obsessional preoccupations with the Obama family with links from another far right Tea bagger.
    I wonder if Malkin like Bachman and Palin views the encouraging of breast feeding mothers by Mrs Obama as another socialist plot.?

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  52. srylands (410 comments) says:

    This is funny or amazing depending on your POV. It is a (serious) suggestion on The Standard for the content of Silent T’s “State of the Nation” address at the end of January. The last two points are particularly chilling.

    Sharp bullet points [for the Leader's speech]
    – We will increase taxes
    – We will pass a Capital Gains Tax
    – We will nationalize any industry that we see as making ‘excessive profits’
    – We will remold employment law to put unions in a position of authority over workplace relations.
    – We will close down the GCSB and SIS
    – We will pass ensure the living wage is the new minimum wage
    – We will triple the ETS taxes to ensure polluting industry pays for CC
    – We will ensure all companies are taxed on their turnover and not net profit
    – We will ensure our Green colleagues have a fair and reasonable representation around the cabinet table.
    – We will modify electoral law to allow state funding of political parties
    – We will cancel all charter schools
    – We will buy back all shares in partial asset sales at an appropriate price
    – We will increase all DPB and unemployment benefits by a one off 15% increase and future proof this with annual increase of a minimum of 5%.
    – We will ensure that any budget deficits can be covered by an appropriate increase in the supply of money.

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  53. TimG_Oz (862 comments) says:

    Oh Morrissey. You are a dipshit to use such rhetoric as “regime”

    Both Labour and Green MPs also accepted trips to Israel as part of the parliamentary friendship program. Including visits to the PA and West Bank. Gaza was a bit too dangerous though

    I bet you wish they’d visited places like Iran, Syria or Cuba. Such as your favored brand of human rights.

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  54. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    hj,

    Under globslisation jobs go east, people come west, living standards go east.

    Your ignorance of economics is almost as complete as your proven dishonesty.

    Western living standards are at record highs.

    Unemployment is, if anything, reduced for open economies.

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  55. stephieboy (3,091 comments) says:

    Oh the irony morrissey of a functioning viable democracy that is Israel. This tome and polemic by Israeli academic The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe.
    Can you ever imagine an equivalent being written railing against the regimes of Iran, Syria or Cuba by one of their academics.?

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  56. nasska (11,518 comments) says:

    Marx said that “Religion is the opium of the people.” But there are many different religions & sects each with it’s own rich cultural traditions & it’s the sign of a closed mind to group them all together.

    Catholicism is the ‘alcohol of the people,’ it makes you talk a lot of self righteous crap, you are less likely to use condoms and those who take it to an extreme are only going to get laid if they have vulnerable minors under their control.

    The Church of England is the ‘marijuana of the people,’ it gives you a vague warm fuzzy feeling, but nobody can quite remember why they started believing that shit in the first place.

    Islam is the ‘P of the people,’ it attracts the desperate, it encourages violence and if you are doing it, chances are you’re not quite right in the head.

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  57. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    nasska, and thus a Jewish atheist was alone and had decide whether to resort to alcohol or P, the decision based on his appetite for sex/number of wives available. As sex made him smarter …

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  58. nasska (11,518 comments) says:

    Stick to the C of E option SPC……a light stone beats the hell out of boy bothering or bombing. :)

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  59. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Kea (9,575 comments) says:
    January 19th, 2014 at 12:10 pm
    Morrissey, careful. Around here you get banned doing anything other that praising Jews in the highest possible terms. Even neutral and factual comments attract a flurry of down votes, if it is clearly not pro Jewish, with some Muslim hate thrown in for good measure.

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    LOL :)

    Looks like the defenders of god “chosen ones” are out in force tonight. Seem like only recently they were persecuting Jews… oh wait. They were ! That is before the US (until recently the biggest Jewish nation in the world) told them to hate Muslims. Fickle little violent bigots need to pour hate on someone.

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  60. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    nasska, if people are sticking with C of E, but no one attends church anymore, maybe it’s because they prefer to get stoned at home. In fact it seems the parents were so stoned they did not get around to having the children infant baptised so this generation don’t get to fill out “just stoned” on census forms.

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  61. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Kea, Christians feel that if they believe God once chose Jews, that gives their claim that God now chooses them more credibility.

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  62. nasska (11,518 comments) says:

    SPC

    AKA Pastafarians. :)

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  63. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    SPC, I wonder who they will hate on next ? I would be getting pretty worried if I were a Buddhist sitting on an oil field ;)

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  64. big bruv (13,901 comments) says:

    Oh well….it was nice having a chap who could bowl at 150km for a while. It looks like he might be as fragile as the rest of them.

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  65. chiz (1,144 comments) says:

    Dennis Rodman enters rehab.

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  66. Rowan (2,394 comments) says:

    We now have a chance with Kohli out and well into the tail.

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  67. snowy (108 comments) says:

    Jesus the C of E has become so PC these days

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  68. Nostalgia-NZ (5,211 comments) says:

    Black caps unpicking the mettle of the champs now. Nice cricket to watch.

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  69. stephieboy (3,091 comments) says:

    Kea (9,581 comments) says:
    January 19th, 2014 at 8:25 pm

    Everyone’s entitled to a point of view about the ” chosen race” and a negative one at that.But that point of view , of course, can obviously and needs to be be challenged.
    Most Jews can put of with snide, derogatory and abusive comments that seek to demonize them like stormfront or the RWR etc.
    But like anyone else they don’t have to put up with fists , boots or bullets from anyone.
    Honestly I think there are some who are a tad paranoid.

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  70. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    stephieboy, I mostly agree. However I must point out that things can not be that bad or they would not have immigrated there from comfortable prosperous lives in Europe, Russia and the USA, to occupy someone elses land in the Middle East. I guess they could always return to their [real] traditional home land if they don’t like the neighbours. Europe.

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  71. stephieboy (3,091 comments) says:

    Speaking of protection orders , Judith Collins spoke today of the tragic loss of her cousin Robyn Prole to her thug of a husband Rex ,who on breaching an order proceeded to snuff her out with a knife.
    The low life you will see was apparently regarded as a fine example of what prisoner rehabilitation can do.,
    Judith Collins lays for the breach the blame on the murderer not the police.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11188760

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  72. Rowan (2,394 comments) says:

    Interesting that Kea gets all offended and I am a ‘violent abuser’ for calling him a troll, oh the irony!
    Thoughts anyone, Kea is now all offended but still quite happy to post abuse of anyone and everyone who disagrees with his opinions. The full discussion is on the protection orders thread and yesterdays GD, who is the ‘abuser’ here I wonder?
    Not to hard to work out!!

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  73. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Rowan, can you think of other examples where abuse [which is a form of violence] and victim blaming, are ok ?

    LOL :)

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  74. Rowan (2,394 comments) says:

    Did I suggest it was Kea? where? following on from yesterdays discussion, do you think that Doug Gardener was totally blameless for what happened to him? I’m not suggesting that he deserved to die or that Gay Oakes actions were justified, but he was an abusive husband and did contribute to what happened.
    Have you heard of the Heather Osland case over the ditch? Is a similiar story to the Gay Oakes one, where the husband was a violent abuser?
    They do exist Kea, what changes do we need to our laws to protect people from the likes of Edward Livingstone where the PO was clearly not worth the paper it was written on.

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  75. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Rowan, you referred to a domestic violence murder victim as a “piece of meat” and went onto explain why you considered they deserved what they got ! The victims family probably read that.

    There is a clear pattern here of you feeling entitled to use violence and abuse. You have even justified murder ! ( if they were asking for it !!! )

    I am very troubled by your behaviour and you need to seek some assistance.

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