General Debate 1 January 2014

January 1st, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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211 Responses to “General Debate 1 January 2014”

  1. wat dabney (3,439 comments) says:

    For the new year I propose a citizens’ referendum that every right-thinking person can support: New Zealand to offer Edward Snowden asylum, citizenship and a medal for his brave whistle-blowing of the NSA’s (and others’) criminal efforts to implement a state of global surveillance.

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  2. NK (916 comments) says:

    Buggar. I got up early and tired to watch the darts final but it’s on tomorrow morning.

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  3. lilman (659 comments) says:

    Piss off, squealing little shit bag, did you honestly not think Governments spied on each other.

    You need to take the next 20 years off,I would feel much safer then,

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  4. wat dabney (3,439 comments) says:

    did you honestly not think Governments spied on each other

    Do you honestly think it’s just a case of governments spying on other governments?

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  5. NK (916 comments) says:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11179924

    A New Year, another alarmist study on Global Warming. Meanwhile, boats are still blocked by massive sheets of Ice in Antarctica.

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  6. lilman (659 comments) says:

    Fuck off Wat ,run and hide,grab your knob as the sky is falling,Shit your sort are so pathetic.

    What the hell could you do that interests me or anyone else for that matter.

    Well that’s got 2014 off to a good start.

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  7. calendar girl (1,108 comments) says:

    Ignoring the spat between you two, I’m not in favour of a further $9m of our taxes being spent on another ideological referendum.

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  8. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    Wishing everyone a happy 2014. Especially those who have been stuck in sad sack frustration. Hint – don’t pin your hopes on a non-existent Narrow Idealist party to win the election and return New Zealand to a time that never was with policies that will never be.

    If you want some success try something that’s achievable.

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  9. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    We need an alternative to referendums, which are far too expensive and slow and ineffective.

    Inform, debate, poll for public opinion – in time to influence what’s going through Parliament.

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  10. bringbackdemocracy (350 comments) says:

    Nice to see Fairfax predicting the Conservatives to be in parliament this year.

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  11. Camryn (549 comments) says:

    Is it just me or did this guy get a QSM for complete bullshit? 50000 chocolate bars over 20 years is 2500 a year or 10 per weekday. That raised $40000, so each $2.50 chocolate bar only raises 80c. So, he apparently raises at a rate of about $8 a workday.

    He should’ve just asked for coin donations… or he could’ve stayed home watching Sky and just donated $40 a week from his own income.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11179547

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  12. Dave Mann (1,126 comments) says:

    Hi everyone. Happy New Year to all the readers and commenters on KB. I wish you success, good health and happines in 2014. In the main this is a bloody good blog and a special New Year’s wish and thanks must go to DPF for creating this lively forum. Cheers everybody :D

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  13. Scott Chris (5,675 comments) says:

    referendum that every right-thinking person can support: New Zealand to offer Edward Snowden asylum, citizenship and a medal for his brave whistle-blowing

    So ‘right thinking’ involves damaging trade relations for sentimental reasons. Would cost a lot more than 9kk.

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  14. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    A third in US ‘don’t believe in evolution’

    One third of Americans utterly reject the theory of evolution and believe instead that humans “have existed in their present form since the beginning of time”, a new survey has found.

    About a quarter of Americans believe that evolution was guided by God while only 32 per cent of those surveyed believe that evolution is due to “natural processes such as natural selection”, the Pew Research Center found.

    Less of the right believe in evolution.
    - Republicans 54%
    - Democrats 64%
    - Independents 65%

    What about here? Uptick if you believe in evolution, down tick if you don’t.

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  15. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    A new year, a new tax, thanks to Labour Lite and the racist Maori Party.

    The tobacco tax rises 10 per cent on Wednesday, the latest in a series of consecutive 10 percent tax hikes planned by the Government through to 2016.

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Smokers-facing-new-tax-hike/tabid/423/articleID/326881/Default.aspx

    Disclaimer: I do not smoke and am not associated with the tobacco industry.

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  16. Jack5 (4,217 comments) says:

    Pete George, Happy New Year. You posted at 9.09:

    …We need an alternative to referendums…

    How about referenda?

    But seriously, what’s wrong with the Swiss system? Twice as successful as NZ economically, and in many other ways.

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  17. bc (1,251 comments) says:

    There are NO benefits from smoking.
    Price has been shown to have the greatest impact on people giving up.
    Tax it and keep taxing it.

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  18. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    Referenda is fine as an alternative to referendums.

    ref·er·en·dum (rf-rndm)
    n. pl. ref·er·en·dums or ref·er·en·da

    Switzerland is set up much differently to New Zealand with established boundaries and established practices. Their form of direct democracy has it’s strengths as well as it’s weaknesses. It’s too old school.

    We need a far more modern system of inclusive reactive democratic engagement here. Politicians won’t give up their power, the only way it will happen is if people set up their own system of engagement and use it to effectively lobby.

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  19. duggledog (1,107 comments) says:

    “Twice as successful as NZ economically, ”

    Nazi gold

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  20. MH (558 comments) says:

    I can tell the anti freeze on my keyboard is still not able to cope with the invective creating the next ice rage..
    A small thermo nuclear device will be set off above a mid eastern country to balance the effects of global freezing. Mullah Al Gore to publish a new book Reflections on the ozone layer.

    A mass buy out of available ice breakers by NZ govt will upset the balance of payments.

    Referendums are the people participating in referenda.

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  21. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    This is interesting – WhFi can pickup gestures in the home from individuals. While the envisaged use is to control home devices, imagine what the NSA/DHS will use it for, to pwotect our fweedom.

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  22. wat dabney (3,439 comments) says:

    So ‘right thinking’ involves damaging trade relations for sentimental reasons.

    No. It means acting out of principle, and in this case recognition of the enormous service Snowden has bravely performed for everyone who values liberty.

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  23. wat dabney (3,439 comments) says:

    There are NO benefits from smoking.

    Clearly there are, otherwise people wouldn’t do it.

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  24. wat dabney (3,439 comments) says:

    If only there was some sort of biblical injunction against stealing…

    Thousands of homeowners face the threat of crippling bills to repair local churches under an ancient law which applies regardless of their religion…Letters have been sent to more than 12,000 people informing them that they are liable to contribute towards the upkeep of a nearby Anglican church…could see them helping to foot an average bill of £80,000 if urgent work is required

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2530943/Church-repair-hit-thousands-Homeowners-face-huge-bills-ancient-laws-regardless-religion.html

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  25. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    Another good commentary from Paul Roberts. Boiling the frog in the land of the free and the home of the brave. The frog is almost dead, while some people still hallucinate it’s Morning in America. Amazing isn’t it.

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/12/30/2014-will-bring-social-collapse-paul-craig-roberts/

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  26. igm (857 comments) says:

    wat: I would far prefer my rates go towards supporting a church than paying the living wage to some PSA-indoctrinated bludgers. The churches do a lot of good, PSA members destroy.

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  27. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    Obama’s NY resolutions.

    http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/mustabeendrunk.jpg

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  28. dime (8,751 comments) says:

    “Uptick if you believe in evolution, down tick if you don’t.”

    I down ticked cause youre a dick

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  29. dime (8,751 comments) says:

    happy new year peeps.

    shame about the rain in qtown!

    hope you have all done your garbage new years resolutions..

    as a goal setter, my goals are in stone for the year. all goals and financial. im all about the $$$$ this year. make as much as i can before the mana/green/maori/united/nzfirst/labour govt try to come to power and fuck me.

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  30. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    im all about the $$$$ this year.

    And when you die and realise life’s not over it’s only just begun, what are you going to say to the one who judges on how you spent your time in this school?

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  31. dime (8,751 comments) says:

    “And when you die and realise life’s not over it’s only just begun, what are you going to say to the one who judges on how you spent your time in this school?”

    God: ya know dime, you banged a lot of hookers in your 20′s/30′s.
    Dime: yeah mate, i know. good fun.
    God: you also drank a lot of a of piss during your time on earth
    Dime: yeah mate
    God: then there was the lap dances, the sluts, the porn addiction…
    Dime: all in good fun
    God: true that. the issue i have though is way back in 2014, you really focussed on making money. im sorry but thats not cool. into hell you go!

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  32. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    The scam goes on:

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  33. RichardX (290 comments) says:

    Reid (14,553 comments) says:
    January 1st, 2014 at 11:28 am

    …some people still hallucinate it’s Morning in America. Amazing isn’t it.

    I understand you are 100% certain that you are not the one hallucinating but I do not share your certainty
    On many occasions over the years, you have hinted at what you believe the reality of the world to be.
    Does the possibility exist that your interpretation of the world and world events is wrong?

    Reid (14,555 comments) says:
    January 1st, 2014 at 12:33 pm
    And when you die and realise life’s not over it’s only just begun, what are you going to say to the one who judges on how you spent your time in this school?

    Does the possibility exist that your belief in the supernatural is wrong?

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  34. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    “before the mana/green/maori/united/nzfirst/labour govt try to come to power and fuck me.”

    Oh the humanity, I don’t know if I want to live in the brave new green/labour world…great fucker becomes fuckee! :)

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  35. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    God: ya know P.G., you cured a lot of lepers in your 20′s/30′s.
    P.G.: yeah mate, i know. good deeds.
    God: you also admonished potential rapists during your time on earth
    P.G.: yeah mate
    God: then there was the Dunne obsession, the feminism, the addiction to beige/gray colours …
    P.G.: all in good fun
    God: true that. the issue i have though is way back in 2014, you really focused on UnitedFuture. I’m sorry but that’s not cool. into hell you go!

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  36. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    Richard, of course those possibilities exist, but the possibility also exists that I’m right about both those things, doesn’t it.

    And don’t forget it’s not just me but millions of other people who believe either or both of those dynamics are in fact the way it actually works.

    One thing I’ve noticed over the years is that when I discuss one or the other of those two things, most people who respond in the negative misinterpret what I’m saying about those dynamics which makes me conclude that they haven’t even bothered to understand the basics of said dynamic before drawing their conclusions, which is interesting because if you’re going to draw a conclusion about something significant like the way the world works, you’d think people would bother themselves to understand the nature of the facet that’s being discussed before they either agree or disagree, but they don’t.

    For example if I say something like the 911 official story is full of holes, which it provably and palpably is, then immediately, in a heartbeat, many people instantly hallucinate that what I’ve really said is the US govt did it. Which is not what I really said, at all, but that’s what they hallucinate. Same with Christianity, whereby many people instantly hallucinate that all Christians are brainwashed idiots frightened of the world who take solace in palpable mumbo-jumbo which mostly talks about persecuting people and taking away their fweedom to live and let live and grants a special reward to those who are dumb enough to join the club.

    Note that both of these reactions depend on one thing: ignorance of the true nature of the dynamic under discussion. But human nature being what it is, most people resist being told they’re ignorant, which is a shame because true and accurate knowledge of both of those things unlocks a whole lot of doors that otherwise forever remain closed.

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  37. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    I’ve tried to educate all my flock to open their own paddock gates so they can move to the greener grass on the other side Reid but so far none of what I tell them has sunk in! :)

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  38. dime (8,751 comments) says:

    todays recovery drink:

    3/4 cup frozen bluberries
    1/2 cup ice
    1/2 cup almond milk
    greek yoghurt
    2 teaspoons maple syrup.

    absolutely stunning.

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  39. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    so far none of what I tell them has sunk in.

    Perhaps they’ve got cognitive dissonance Johnboy. Either that or they’ve been watching too much MSM.

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  40. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    I’ll get rid of the news channels on the 60″ LCD I installed in the Jacuzzi room in the barn Reid! :)

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  41. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    You forgot to mention how many ounces of rum to add dime. :)

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  42. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    Good grief so Police/Wowsers had nothing to fear again despite earlier rabble rousing. :)

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503343&objectid=11179696

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11180148

    “However, Professor Jennie Connor, head of Preventive and Social Medicine at Otago University in Dunedin, criticised the move saying it was “grossly irresponsible” and encouraged binge drinking.”

    The “Rent a Professor” culture is alive and thriving well in Godzone I see! :)

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  43. Ross12 (927 comments) says:

    Was Wellington the only major city NOT to have a community organised New Year celebration in its CDB ?? Idiots have gained control of the WCC.

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  44. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    It all went downhill when Celia won again! :)

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  45. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    Lot’s of future Messiahs getting born in the US it seems! :)

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11179885

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  46. MT_Tinman (2,790 comments) says:

    Headline from Stuff: New booze fines imposed
    Police dished out $45K worth of instant fines to New Year revellers in the Coromandel.

    The NZ police state hits full swing!

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  47. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    Useful backgrounder for the Morning in America hallucinators.

    http://www.zengardner.com/wp-content/uploads/terposter_n1.jpg

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  48. calendar girl (1,108 comments) says:

    Ross12, so WCC’s socialists did not spend rates money as you would expect on ‘bread and circuses’. Great.

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  49. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    It’s all being saved to spend on free chain oil and puncture repair kits! :)

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  50. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    so WCC’s socialists did not spend rates money as you would expect on ‘bread and circuses’

    It’s all being saved to spend on free chain oil and puncture repair kits!

    Either that or there was nothing left after the spend-up on hair shirts and ukuleles.

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  51. Ross12 (927 comments) says:

    Calendar girl

    I’m not saying there should have been the big fireworks display etc. But there has always been an outdoor concert which had special section before dark for the little kids ( which was well attended and appreciated by the kids –there have been letters of complaint from the parents in the paper). The concert then went on until midnight for the adults. I don’t think those sort of events are expensive — they allow a community to get together, local musos can get abit of exposure etc. and it would normally be another event for the summer festival which goes on around town for several weeks.

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  52. stephieboy (1,120 comments) says:

    From the buffoons at Fox News and their five worst moments for 2013,

    http://www.salon.com/2013/12/26/fox_news_5_worst_moments_of_2013/

    Five worst moments.? More like 365 worst moments.!

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  53. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    The sky is falling claims DPF’s mate: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8778091/allowance-cuts-mean-spirited-labour

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  54. graham (2,211 comments) says:

    Pete George at 9:32 am -

    What about here? Uptick if you believe in evolution, down tick if you don’t.

    I’m honestly not trying to be a dick, but the question “do you believe in evolution” is far too simplistic to allow for all the possible permutations.

    Do you believe that evolution occurs? Is it a natural process, or is it guided by God? If evolution occurs, to what degree does it happen? How much of our current state is evolution responsible for – a little or a lot? Can evolution and intelligent design co-exist? Is all life on Earth descended from a “last universal ancestor” that lived approximately 3.8 billion years ago, or not? Is evolution responsible for the origin of life?

    I personally believe in both intelligent design – that we were created by God – and a degree of evolution. But I can’t uptick or downtick your question, because I honestly think it is far too simplistic a rendering of such a complex subject.

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  55. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    That’s a good link Manolo. At the bottom of the slimy one’s address is a link to “Death Records & Obituaries” :)

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  56. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    The wowsers with a vested interest on it believe their own lies:

    A 10% cent tax hike on tobacco introduced today will help more Kiwis escape a “creeping death”, anti-smoking advocates say. Quitline has had a surge in activity ahead of today’s changes with people desperate to quite to save money.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11180186

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  57. calendar girl (1,108 comments) says:

    Ross12, when I look at WCC’s “Events” page http://wellington.govt.nz/events/annual-events/summer-city there’s every indication that the Council is an enthusiastic spender on public entertainment (‘bread and circuses’ in my language). There’s even a special children’s picnic being staged this very afternoon.

    Note the breast-beating statement: ‘Wellington City Council funds Summer City, along with help from sponsors. The New Zealand Community Trust was a major funding partner of the 2013/14 festival.’ Not a mention of a relative cost breakdown or the actual public dollars being spread around (perhaps by amateurs as far as we know?), just a nice, soft-sell message to smoothe over any ratepayer concerns.

    Everyone to his own, Ross12. But I wouldn’t willingly trust politicians with discretionary spending of this kind. As a related matter of interest, do you personally pay property rates directly to Wellington City Council?

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  58. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    The really frightening thing about these creeps Manolo is once they have achieved the complete eradication of smokers who will they turn their zeal on next? :)

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  59. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    Booze, alcohol, the demon drink. The wowsers would love to turn NZ into Prohibition-country in a not so distant future.

    Once a personal freedoms falls, these petty tyrants and control-freaks will turn their attention and attack the next target.

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  60. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    Will PG stand for their party in either Dunedin or Ohariu Manolo? :)

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  61. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    Neither. In his ponderous style, Dunedin’s Mother Teresa will be considering his options, weighing the possibilities, by the time the candidate deadline closes.

    Then he’ll claim independence and whiter-than-white attributes, while praising Dunne’s decision to go with the election winner.

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  62. stephieboy (1,120 comments) says:

    Lawrence O’ Donnell MSN exposes the smarmy and sniveling hypocrisy of the likes of Greg Collet aspiring Idaho Republican rep. A strong advocate of serious and severe Federal cuts to spending but who at the same time has his 10 children registered on medicaid. This is a state administered but Federally funded medical scheme .

    http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/rewriting-shutdown-loving-government-haters-54796867712

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  63. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    @stephie: How is Feminism and Social Equality 301, mate? Studying hard, uh?

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  64. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    So what are your plans for this year Manolo, apart from your obsessions with Obama, Muslims, Maori, feminism and me? You never seem to state support for anything, you spend your time standing on the wall trying to piss on everyone. Weak.

    Will you be considering any options? Be brave and actually state what politics and politicians you might support this year. Is there anyone?

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  65. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    You do tend to bring out the worst in Manolo PG! :)

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  66. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    New research on improved climate models says they had previously under-predicted warming.

    Global average temperatures will rise at least 4°C by 2100 and potentially more than 8°C by 2200 if carbon dioxide emissions are not reduced according to new research published in Nature. Scientists found global climate is more sensitive to carbon dioxide than most previous estimates.

    “Climate sceptics like to criticize climate models for getting things wrong, and we are the first to admit they are not perfect, but what we are finding is that the mistakes are being made by those models which predict less warming, not those that predict more,” said Prof. Sherwood. “Rises in global average temperatures of this magnitude will have profound impacts on the world and the economies of many countries if we don’t urgently start to curb our emissions.

    http://blogs.agu.org/wildwildscience/2013/12/31/improved-climate-models-show-lower-end-warming-estimates-likely-wrong/

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  67. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

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  68. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    Johnboy, Manolo brings it out himself, repeatedly. He must feel no one listens to him so has to keep trying.

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  69. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    Shit! That’s a worry I’ll only be 151 by 2100 and only 251 by 2200! :)

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  70. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    I hope your hatred for PG is not just transference hatred because you live in PD’s electorate Manolo.

    That just wouldn’t be fair! :)

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  71. RichardX (290 comments) says:

    graham (2,179 comments) says:
    January 1st, 2014 at 3:16 pm

    I personally believe in both intelligent design – that we were created by God – and a degree of evolution.

    What were we designed to be that any evolution was necessary?

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  72. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    A bob each way for graham. But fair enough, it was vague, more specifics.

    What degree of evolution do you think?
    Just evolving as homo sapiens?
    Or evolved from other species?

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  73. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    I must confess, I have often wondered, despite our common ancestor, how politicians evolved from the rest of us. :)

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  74. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    The JB downthumb monster must be a shift worker. Went on duty at 2:00 today! :)

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  75. Monique Angel (229 comments) says:

    Global warming is a fucked in the head concept invented by Fucked in the head UN public servants.
    Our Sun just switched polarity and that big hydrogen burning Motherfucker has far more of an effect on Earth’s climate than bad recycling practices.
    Have a good 362.242 day trip around the Sun, fellow primates!
    disclaimer: Am drinking and may cuss and be irrelevant.

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  76. Morrissey (7 comments) says:

    Manolo and Monique, you seem to believe that because that boat is stuck in the ice, then that means there is no such thing as global warming. You know better than the world’s scientists, do you?

    Monique, your use of foul language does nothing to change the impression that you are utterly stupid.

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  77. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    Can’t be very high profile, having to do shift work on New Years day!!!! :)

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  78. Ross12 (927 comments) says:

    Calendar girl

    Yes I am a Wellington CC rate payer. You are right, that the Council does spend ” well” on events but I think if viewed from a PR point of view missing the New Years eve event is crazy. ( BTW. Todays event was cancelled due to rain, last night was great weather)

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  79. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    But don’t forget the sunscreen for that day in 4000002014 when Sol shits on us Monique.

    (This has been a slop, slap and tickle health warning from Johnboy) ! :)

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  80. Monique Angel (229 comments) says:

    in my experience, it doesn’t matter how stupid one as long as one is a decent cup size.
    @Morrissey, Keep calling me stupid, Sweetie. It makes my day.

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  81. Monique Angel (229 comments) says:

    Will that be a date Johnboy? c u there :)
    Mind you I’m a bad driver so might run over a few of your flossies on the way.

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  82. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    If you need anyone to apply sunscreen to the items you normally keep in your cups Monique I’m your man.

    (Preferably before 4000002014) :)

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  83. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    All of my sheep are happy to lay themselves down to ensure my pleasure Monique! :)

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  84. graham (2,211 comments) says:

    A bob each way? No, I would say more like 97% assigned to intelligent design, 3% to evolution.

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  85. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    So from that you mean homo sapiens have always been homo sapiens with slight changes?

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  86. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    Manolo and Monique, you seem to believe that because that boat is stuck in the ice, then that means there is no such thing as global warming. You know better than the world’s scientists, do you?

    AGW “science” is a “science” where counter-evidence isn’t counted indeed it’s discouraged and when you observe a phenomena like that occurring the normal conclusion is that you’re not really looking at a science you’re looking at an ideology.

    And so you look for evidence of an ideology and lo, what does one find? Why cute things like PR labels (e.g. “deniers”) and lock-step politicians all around the world regardless of stripe and research funding that’s allocated according to whether the “study” is going to reach the “correct” conclusion.

    But the big tell is millions if not billions of followers so devoted to the ideology their behaviour verges on the hysterical whenever their religion is challenged.

    Did this happen to say, the theory of relativity? No. Quantum mechanics? No. Computer developments? No. Particle physics? No.

    So what does that say to you, Morrisey? Or did I just commit heresy?

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  87. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    RichardX (154 comments) says:
    January 1st, 2014 at 4:13 pm

    graham (2,179 comments) says:
    January 1st, 2014 at 3:16 pm

    …..I personally believe in both intelligent design – that we were created by God – and a degree of evolution……

    What were we designed to be that any evolution was necessary?

    ——————————————-

    WTF……………………….Adults Richard……..Adults!

    Well I did tell you just yesterday Richard – after your single solitary idiotic comment of the day, aimed at me – that you shouldn’t bother commenting here at all this year. Do you see now what I mean? :cool:

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  88. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    So from that you mean homo sapiens have always been homo sapiens with slight changes?

    Pete if you’re truly interested in the subject , I suggest you buy this guy’s book and read it before you comment any further, as any reasonable, sensible and fair person would, lest we suspect you’re actually none of those things if you don’t. I haven’t BTW because it’s a subject that hasn’t yet interested me enough to study it sufficient for me to draw a conclusion on it, but you clearly are interested so let us all know how it turns out, once you’re read it.

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/how-dna-proves-god-made-all-creatures-great-and-small

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  89. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    “This subject doesn’t interest me enough for me to draw a conclusion on it. But here, I recommend this book about it that reaches conclusions that line up with my own beliefs. If you don’t read it, you’re unreasonable, silly and unfair. Don’t bother mentioning to me any books about it that reach conclusions that don’t line up with my beliefs – like I said, I’m not that interested in the subject.”

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  90. Monique Angel (229 comments) says:

    Ha ha Johnboy. i don’t think I’ll get too wrinkly over the next few Millennium so there may be no rush!

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  91. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    Yeah, right reid, a geophysicist now working for the Discovery Institute, which is one of the main promoters of intelligent design, claims “the DNA in every cell of every creature shows unmistakable evidence of having been deliberately designed by an intelligent being”.

    A one time geophysicist and college professor, he’s now director of the Center for Science and Culture at the Discovery Institute in Seattle, Washington.

    Meyer became part of a national controversy five years ago when The Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington, a publication staffed by scientists from the Smithsonian Institution, published the first ever peer-reviewed article arguing for intelligent design in the creation of life on Earth. Dr. Meyer is the author of that article.

    And you’re promoting the book without having read it but won’t consider any alternative conclusion.

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  92. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    Don’t bother mentioning to me any books about it that reach conclusions that don’t line up with my beliefs – like I said, I’m not that interested in the subject.

    OK Ryan, read the transcript and address the argument he raises. Evolution accounts for minor improvements in an organism, it cannot and never did pretend to account for how life began, and no-one has done that yet. Darwin didn’t pretend his theory accounted for that, and no-one else has managed to, either.

    Therefore, how did life begin?

    I’ll eagerly await your erudite exposition. You could win a Nobel Prize, you know.

    Yeah, right reid, a geophysicist now working for the Discovery Institute, which is one of the main promoters of intelligent design

    Same challenge to you, Pete. It takes 5 mins to read his transcript. Go for it. Otherwise, shut up and stop pretending you know what you’re talking about. And buy his book and read it, since you claim to be interested in the subject. Or were you lying?

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  93. Lucia Maria (1,988 comments) says:

    Pete,

    I can’t answer your evolution question at 9:32am, because I neither believe nor disbelieve in it. I think God could have made use of it to create us, or not. I don’t know what He did. I’ll leave that to science to figure it out. In the meantime, believing in evolution sounds a little too religious to me.

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  94. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    Shot down to Taupo and back today.

    Going down brilliant run , no traffic.

    Coming home, fuck wits every where having their second big drive of the year.

    I am very glad I wont be driving back into Auckland this Sunday.

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  95. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    I wish you guys would get over this question. Everybody knows that life began when electrical sparks were zapped over a glass test tube full of ammonianical thingies. Good grief even God rested on the sixth day for fucks sake! :)

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  96. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    If anyone other than reid is interested in Stephen Meyer’s credentials see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_C._Meyer

    He has been one of the main proponents of intelligent design and he introduced the “teach the controversy” strategy to try and raise doubts about evolution science.

    The root of his bias is his ‘God of the gaps’ approach to knowledge and the sentimental quest to ‘provide solace to those who feel their faith undermined by secular society and by science in particular’.

    Not surprising to see reid promoting him with blind devotion.

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  97. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    Are you allowed to drive to Taupo at your age PEB? :)

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  98. TheContrarian (1,043 comments) says:

    Intelligent Design is just young earth creationism repackaged. It has no scientific credibility, posits no testable predictions nor is it falsifiable. It fails at science and was part of a PR campaign under the Wedge Strategy to introduce a more ‘scientific’ lexicon to a religious ideal.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy

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  99. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    Not surprising to see reid promoting him with blind devotion.

    Not surprising to see Pete assessing the value of something by not looking at it. Is this the behaviour of a fair, sensible and reasonable man? You decide.

    But seriously Pete, go ahead and refute what he’s saying. You know the old saying, don’t like the message, attack the messenger. After all, doing that isn’t very fair, reasonable and sensible, is it. What would Peter say? He’d be very disappointed in you, wouldn’t he. Not displaying the right stuff, at all, in any way.

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  100. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    Intelligent Design is just young earth creationism repackaged. It has no scientific credibility, posits no testable predictions nor is it falsifiable.

    That’s precisely why I posted that link above TC. Join the club. Go ahead and refute what he’s saying. Go on. You’re not scared, are you?

    Like I said to Ryan, you could win a Nobel Prize. Wouldn’t that be special. So go ahead. If you dare.

    BTW, newsflash to both you and Pete, wiki links aren’t normally worth much, you know. Anyone can say anything, it’s not real science. Just sayin…

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  101. TheContrarian (1,043 comments) says:

    The link seems broken from this end

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  102. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    OK Ryan, read the transcript and address the argument he raises.

    The “my Microsoft friend told me that DNA gives him a eerie feeling” argument? In the interview where the interviewer actually says that if you refute a Creator dictating a moral code for the universe, “You’ve undermined the foundation of the American Revolution”?

    This isn’t an interview, Reid, it’s an infomercial.

    Evolution accounts for minor improvements in an organism, it cannot and never did pretend to account for how life began, and no-one has done that yet. Darwin didn’t pretend his theory accounted for that, and no-one else has managed to, either.

    Therefore, how did life begin?

    I’ll eagerly await your erudite exposition. You could win a Nobel Prize, you know.

    I don’t know how life began, and neither do you or Stephen C Meyer.

    I can talk you through some interesting current hypotheses for abiogenesis on Earth, but only if you’re sufficiently interested in the topic.

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  103. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/how-dna-proves-god-made-all-creatures-great-and-small

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  104. dirty harry (235 comments) says:

    lol..no new years celebration in wellington last nite but instead a picnic today which got rained out..

    Go CWB you loser.

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  105. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    I looked at it reid. I’ve looked at it some more, via an actual paleontologist who calls it STEPHEN MEYER’S FUMBLING BUMBLING AMATEUR CAMBRIAN FOLLIES.

    Stephen Meyer’s first demonstration of these biases was his atrociously incompetent book Signature in the Cell (2009, HarperOne), which was universally lambasted by molecular biologists as an amateurish effort by someone with no firsthand training or research experience in molecular biology.

    (Meyer’s Ph.D. is in history of science, and his undergrad degree is in geophysics, which give him absolutely no background to talk about molecular evolution).

    Undaunted by this debacle, Meyer now blunders into another field in which he has no research experience or advanced training: my own profession, paleontology. I can now report that he’s just as incompetent in my field as he was in molecular biology.

    Almost every page of this book is riddled by errors of fact or interpretation that could only result from someone writing in a subject way over his head, abetted by the creationist tendency to pluck facts out of context and get their meaning completely backwards.

    A detailed review of the book is here:

    The conclusion:

    Finally, I should note an interesting phenomenon. The creationist community gave the book a huge buildup in their circles, and got their acolytes to pre-order the book in huge numbers, so it was #7 on the New York Times Best Seller List when it was released.

    Since its release, however, it has plummeted in sales, probably because once the Young-Earth Creationists read it, they’ll realize it is full of ideas they don’t support, like “millions of years.” I watched its sales ranking on Amazon.com go from near the top, to (currently) around #11,000 or lower on the ranking of best sellers—in just over a month!

    The most satisfying thing, however, is that initially Amazon.com put it in their “Paleontology” category. But just a week ago, they removed it and moved it to “Religion & Science.” Apparently, the huge negative backlash from REAL paleontologists made them reassess it. Now if they could only move it over to “Fiction”, where it truly belongs…

    “Religion & Science” is a strange category when promoters of intelligent design are involved.

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  106. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    If seen spiders on our clothsline design things far better than I’ve seen most grown men and women design things. And that ‘breed’ of spiders can ALL do that.

    No I don’t think that man is the most intelligent being in the universe. Or a committee of men too for that matter.

    God exists.

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  107. wat dabney (3,439 comments) says:

    how did life begin?

    It’s not clear how life on Earth began, therefore pixie!

    Brilliant.

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  108. TheContrarian (1,043 comments) says:

    Not knowing how life sparked =/= intelligent design.

    Intelligent design is a dishonest cloak for special creationism so irrespective of life being granted by an intelligent designer or through naturalistic processes the current ID movement is a cynical PR campaign to muddy the waters of real scientific debate and introduce a supernatural creator – which, as evidenced by the ID proponents, is the god of Christendom. It can therefor be disregarded as it isn’t about introducing new ideas but repackaging old ones. Not for scientific reasons but for societal ones. ID isn’t about investigating the origins of life, it’s about introducing religious ideals.

    “God exists.”

    Which God, Harriet?

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  109. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    Quite right Harriet. I asked my wife and she said that a committee of women would know slightly less than she did! :)

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  110. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    Jb

    Enfeebled as I am I managed, had to, funeral

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  111. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    This isn’t an interview, Reid, it’s an infomercial….I don’t know how life began, and neither do you or Stephen C Meyer.

    In your opinion Ryan and one assumes the material is in the book, doesn’t one.

    And from the interview, Ryan doesn’t claim to know, he simply claims it’s most unlikely it just all happens by accident and points out Darwin never claimed he knew, either.

    IMO, if you don’t know that answer, then how the fuck do you know whether or not there’s a intelligent designer? And if you don’t know that, then how can you be so very confident there isn’t one? Isn’t it much more sensible and reasonable to keep an open mind, rather than concluding one way or the other?

    I can talk you through some interesting current hypotheses for abiogenesis on Earth, but only if you’re sufficiently interested in the topic.

    No I’m not really, because before I start on those, I’m going to need to familiarise myself with intricate details of cell biology which will take me years, otherwise I’m not in a position to assess the veracity, and that urge hasn’t yet struck me. But I’m assuming you have, since you seem confident in your position, so why don’t you submit an application to the Nobel Committee and claim this year’s biology prize, since no other scientist has succeeded where you have?

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  112. wat dabney (3,439 comments) says:

    What causes thunder?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thunder_gods

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  113. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    Travelling behind the hearse at 40kph probably saved a silly old codger like you from most of the dreadful hazards on the road these days PEB, like Policemen hiding in bushes, watching your speedo too much to ensure you don’t get to 5kph over and those silly little white crosses that distract a fellow from watching the road! :)

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  114. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    We may not know how life began on Earth (and can never know, short of time travel), what we do know is this:

    At every point in history where there was a supernatural explanation and no natural explanation, the supernatural explanation has been soundly beaten by natural explanations once they are discovered.

    Rainbows – God’s promise in the sky? Nope, refraction.
    Lightning – angry god blowing up trees? Nope, atmospheric static electricity.
    Illness – demons punishing families for being naughty? Nope, bacteria and viruses.

    And so on. Supernatural explanations fall and fall and fall, and the God of the Gaps gets smaller and smaller. Now we have something that happened in the incredibly distant past, something it’s literally impossible ever to be certain of, and we’re told – “You don’t know for sure how it happened, so you can’t tell me God didn’t do it.”

    Presumably it was just bad luck that throughout history, those who favoured supernatural explanations over natural ones have been wrong every single time, and just plain great luck that there’s this one final little nook of phenomena whose supernatural explanation can never be replaced with a certain natural explanation.

    “Sure, we were wrong about lightning and disease and rainbows and the age of the earth and everything else, but THIS! This is the REAL TEST – the origin of life is what we REALLY meant has a supernatural explanation and no natural one.”

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  115. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    “God exists.”

    Which God, Harriet?

    —————————–

    As I pointed out – compared with that breed of spiders – man is fallable.

    I believe in my God – the Lord Jesus Christ. Other humans are the fallable ones.

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  116. TheContrarian (1,043 comments) says:

    Why so sure, Harriet?

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  117. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    No I’m not really, because before I start on those, I’m going to need to familiarise myself with intricate details of cell biology which will take me years, otherwise I’m not in a position to assess the veracity, and that urge hasn’t yet struck me. But I’m assuming you have, since you seem confident in your position, so why don’t you submit an application to the Nobel Committee and claim this year’s biology prize, since no other scientist has succeeded where you have?

    As above, Reid. I am technically open to the possibility of a supernatural explanation for the origin of life, but it would be irrational for me to ignore the fact that every other supernatural explanation has turned out to be vastly inferior to natural explanations. I also don’t buy Lotto tickets.

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  118. wat dabney (3,439 comments) says:

    The magic pixie called Yahweh/Jesus begs us not to follow other gods.

    What other gods would they be?

    And do they exhibit the same psychotic cruelty of Yahweh/Jesus?

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  119. eszett (2,264 comments) says:

    Other humans are the fallable ones.

    Does that include yourself and your belief in your specific god, Harry?
    Are you fallible and could you be completely wrong about him?

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  120. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    “…why so sure Harriet…”

    I’d rather leave the next generation with some wisdom and morals – so that they too can handle their fallable ways.

    Sexual shannagins and other ‘choices’ won’t suffice in place of that.

    I have ‘faith’ that things will keep getting as better as they can for all of us ‘fallable humans’.

    The Teachings of God for the last few thousand years gives me that faith. Occasional Public addresses from Wellington don’t.

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  121. graham (2,211 comments) says:

    TheContrarian – My use of the term “Intelligent Design” was a mistake, I keep forgetting that this label is assigned to a quite specific belief. Sorry for any confusion.

    I should have said that I believe God created us, and the universe, in the beginning.

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  122. nasska (9,501 comments) says:

    ….”I believe in my God – the Lord Jesus Christ.”…..

    Harriet’s no wank 2014 resolution has already gone tits up. :)

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  123. Longknives (4,044 comments) says:

    I love mentioning this when lefties are loudly rubbishing religion and hero-worshipping Charles Darwin-

    “Ashore, Darwin’s disparaging eye found much to disdain. Compared to the Tahitians’ “pleasant, airy abodes”, Maori whare, which Darwin likened to “a cow-shed with one end open” were “filthily dirty & offensive”. As specimens of humanity, Tahitians were “the finest men I have ever beheld”, he wrote. New Zealanders (as Darwin referred to Maori—that word not yet being in wide circulation) possessed a character of “a much lower order”. “One glance at their respective expressions,” noted the naturalist, “brings conviction to the mind that one is a savage, the other a civilised man”.

    Heh Heh…

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  124. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    We may not know how life began on Earth

    But if you don’t know that then how do you “know” without any doubt that it evolved without intervention?

    You believe what you believe because you want to believe it Ryan. But there is no science to back you up, unless you chose to believe in a series of fantastically improbable statistical occurrences, and that’s not science, that’s faith.

    I have a faith in a Creator. The only difference between you and I is, I admit that my faith is based in faith. You believe there is no Creator, but until you can answer that question of precisely how life and ultimately, you, were created, you are forced to admit that the evidence that you have for your faith is as ethereal as mine is. The only difference is, I admit my evidence is ethereal, but you can’t, because doing so destroys your hypothesis. It doesn’t however destroy mine, because faith is what my hypothesis is based on.

    Question for you: if evolution is all there is, how come we all have a conscience? What possible evolutionary value is that, to us? And don’t say to procreate, since surely from an evolutionary perspective the survival of the species would benefit from a whole race of implacable, ruthless warriors who kept a genetically pure harem. So where does that human trait come from?

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  125. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    And what kind of tiny, boring, irrelevant God is it that provides a supernatural explanation for one thing (origin of life) and natural explanations for every other damned thing? Why this obsession with fitting God into a materialistic definition of what’s a good reason to believe that something exists?

    Apologists whittle away at God by grasping desperately at an ever-decreasing number of things science can’t explain, and come up with long and involved cerebral explanations for why it’s actually really okay for an intelligent person to believe in God, and what they’re left with is this boring, dry, washed-out mathematical formula of a thing that is supposed to evoke awe and passion and love.

    Just don’t bother. I get that it’s people like Meyer’s job to do it, just like it’s people like Dawkins’ job to argue the opposite, but it’s a pretty barren and tiny piece of territory that ends up being at stake.

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  126. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    Longknives. I wonder what Darwin would have said if he had popped into a HNZ house in Farmer Cres. before the demolition crews dealt to the place? :)

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  127. nasska (9,501 comments) says:

    Reid

    Conscience is based on learned behaviours. It is a social development which makes living in groups possible.

    Anything that enables humans to live together as a society makes that particular group stronger & evolution is the survival of the strongest.

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  128. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    Other humans are the fallable ones.

    Does that include yourself and your belief in your specific god, Harry?
    Are you fallible and could you be completely wrong about him?

    ——————————

    That’s what holding ‘belief’ is all about for people from most religions. ‘Their’ religion and God is ‘the’ religion and God.

    Yes I am fallible – we all are.

    There’s nothing wrong with religion in general as it simply helps people cope with their time in this world.You leave this world in ‘good order’ for the next generations by following your religion and you will be rewarded by entering the next world.

    A bit of Christianity in all people doesn’t hurt anyone.

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  129. TheContrarian (1,043 comments) says:

    ” if evolution is all there is, how come we all have a conscience? What possible evolutionary value is that, to us?”

    I can answer that. By working together we thrive and to work together we must treat each other honestly and with conscience. Like a bee hive or an ant colony. They all work together to further their species.

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  130. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    I’m happy to insert my bit of Christianity in most female folks that feel as though they are missing a bit Harriet! :)

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  131. nasska (9,501 comments) says:

    ….”and you will be rewarded by entering the next world.”….

    The promised sky cake! :)

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  132. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    But of course Contrarian. One of the bee’s or ant’s has to be the Queen. There in lies the problem! :)

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  133. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    “….Anything that enables humans to live together as a society makes that particular group stronger & evolution is the survival of the strongest….”

    So now Nasska the homophobe has started of the year suggesting that gays have no place in evolution and therefor, the weakest of all!

    nice. :cool:

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  134. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    The promised sky cake!

    No.

    Beer. :cool:

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  135. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    But if you don’t know that then how do you “know” without any doubt that it evolved without intervention?

    Reid, are you even reading what I’m saying? Past the first line? Try it again, because you keep repeating this assertion despite me repeatedly saying that…

    …I’m not saying I know without a doubt that life on Earth arose without God or gods or aliens intervening. What I’m saying is that every other time in history there’s been a supernatural explanation for something, natural explanations have superseded them once discovered. All you’ve done is found one thing that can, by its very nature, never be naturally explained for certain and declared an unprecedented victory for supernatural explanations.

    You believe what you believe because you want to believe it Ryan. But there is no science to back you up, unless you chose to believe in a series of fantastically improbable statistical occurrences, and that’s not science, that’s faith.

    What exactly do you think I have asserted, Reid? Can you quote me? Give me a link to where I talked about a series of occurrences, improbable or otherwise?

    I have a faith in a Creator. The only difference between you and I is, I admit that my faith is based in faith. You believe there is no Creator, but until you can answer that question of precisely how life and ultimately, you, were created, you are forced to admit that the evidence that you have for your faith is as ethereal as mine is. The only difference is, I admit my evidence is ethereal, but you can’t, because doing so destroys your hypothesis. It doesn’t however destroy mine, because faith is what my hypothesis is based on.

    That’s genuinely irrational, Reid, and shows a complete disrespect for truth. It is not true that in the absence of certainty any explanation is as good as another. I am quite happy to say that I don’t know how life arose on earth. I know of some good theories of how it could have arisen without aliens or gods, but I have no problem with not knowing for sure something that is impossible to know for sure.

    Question for you: if evolution is all there is, how come we all have a conscience? What possible evolutionary value is that, to us? And don’t say to procreate, since surely from an evolutionary perspective the survival of the species would benefit from a whole race of implacable, ruthless warriors who kept a genetically pure harem. So where does that human trait come from?

    Okay, so we’re talking about evolution now? Not the origin of life, which as you yourself said is a different matter?

    Okay, then. The evolutionary value of what you call a conscience – impulses to act some ways rather than other ways in our dealings with others – is that groups of humans who look after each other and work cooperatively are more likely to survive and propagate than groups of humans who are purely selfish. That said, it seems to me that a person’s conscience is more a question of social evolution than biological evolution – children learn from their upbringing how to act in relation to others.

    A “race of implacable, ruthless warriors who kept a genetically pure harem” would be a disaster for the propagation of the gene, at least compared to societies that work together cooperatively.

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  136. nasska (9,501 comments) says:

    ….” that gays have no place in evolution and therefor, the weakest of all! “….

    You should be nice to the poor bastards then Harriet. It’s also worth remembering that they were brought into the world by heterosexual people performing heterosexual acts…..perhaps that’s where the blame lies. :)

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  137. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    The Kenyans can keep the bastard paedophile! http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8778276/nzer-faces-trafficking-hearing-in-kenya

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  138. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    Even Darwin would struggle to decide which part of the ladder of evolution to place the Gay folks on I suggest Harriet.

    Perhaps you could enlighten us all with your great wisdom? :)

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  139. wat dabney (3,439 comments) says:

    Reid,

    Question for you: if evolution is all there is, how come we all have a conscience? What possible evolutionary value is that, to us?

    ‘Evolutionary Explanations for Altruism and Morality’
    http://uchv.princeton.edu/workshops/DHVP/Kurzban.pdf

    ‘How Humans Became Moral Beings’
    “In a new book, anthropologist Christopher Boehm traces the steps our species went through to attain a conscience ”
    http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/How-Humans-Became-Moral-Beings.html

    “Morality: An Evolutionary Account”
    http://www.sociology.uiowa.edu/nsfworkshop/JournalArticleResources/Krebs_MoralityEvolutionaryAccount_2008.pdf

    I could go on.

    A few seconds’ googling is all it takes.

    But you prefer to remain in wilful ignorance.

    Indeed, you are proud of it.

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  140. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    @Johnboy: Is it Beefeaters, Tanqueray or Sapphire’s tonight?
    For a man of your discriminating taste I would expect a decent Speyside single malt as well.

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  141. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    And what kind of tiny, boring, irrelevant God is it that provides a supernatural explanation for one thing (origin of life) and natural explanations for every other damned thing? Why this obsession with fitting God into a materialistic definition of what’s a good reason to believe that something exists? …it’s a pretty barren and tiny piece of territory that ends up being at stake.

    Ryan if you don’t believe in God I’m guessing you haven’t studied the Bible. I don’t mean read it once, I mean, studied it. I doubt you’ve even read it once? And once is not enough, my friend. You need to read it hundreds of times to really, really understand it. But through God’s grace He allows us to learn it bit by bit if we approach it in the right heart and that means with a heart that’s not hardened.

    If you approach The Library with a hardened heart you’ll take out of it what Kea has taken out of it, nothing but wrath, persecution and hatred. If you approach The Library with a heart of faith, asking God to open your mind to its mysteries, it will do that, but it won’t do that if you simply say the words but don’t mean them, in your heart.

    When you read The Library like that vistas of new understanding will open up to you that surpass your wildest imagination and will answer all your questions and raise new ones until the day you pass from this life to whatever is next, but if you never do that but simply treat The Library as lip service, all of that will remain forever closed, just like someone who never leaves their small home town and your mind and your life will suffer accordingly.

    That’s the main difference my friend, between someone who confines their mind to the world and what comparatively small and temporary pleasures it offers, and someone who looks toward the Heavens, for inspiration and answers.

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  142. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    Manolo seem to disappear when anyone asks you to actually state something rather than berate everyone. So you may have missed some questions, including:

    What are your plans for this year, apart from your obsessions with Obama, Muslims, Maori, feminism and me? You never seem to state support for anything, you spend your time standing on the wall trying to piss on everyone. Weak.

    Will you be considering any options? Be brave and actually state what politics and politicians you might support this year. Is there anyone?

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  143. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    Being a poor fellow of limited means Manolo it was just a Gordons and having killed that this arvo it will merely be a Dewars to sustain my vitriol into this lovely evening that we are enjoying here in Wellytown! :)

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  144. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    Will you be considering any options? Be brave and actually state what politics and politicians you might support this year. Is there anyone?

    A pertinent question, P.G. My answer: as a libertarian I always support those who promise to interfere less with my life and personal freedoms.

    I despise busybodies and control-freaks, as much as those incapable of taking a stance and who prefer to go with the wind.

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  145. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    Ryan#

    Happy New Year Ryan.

    “…..Just don’t bother. I get that it’s people like Meyer’s job to do it, just like it’s people like Dawkins’ job to argue the opposite, but it’s a pretty barren and tiny piece of territory that ends up being at stake….’

    The way I see it it all comes down to having faith and belief in the face of confusion. People of faith have faced these ‘tiny pieces’ since time immortal. It’s nothing new.

    Religion is about the falleness of man and it is then mankind that is at stake. Ceasar OR God has always been the big piece. It always will be.

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  146. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    Being a poor fellow of limited means…

    If Wainui’s farmer king of kings is poor, I must be destitute, a pauper.

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  147. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    That’s just vague cop-out waffle Manolo, ironic that you say “as much as those incapable of taking a stance”.

    Who will you support? Anyone? Or do you oppose all current MPs and parties?

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  148. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    “those who promise to interfere less with my life and personal freedoms.”

    I never realised just how hard it must be to be a libertarian in Aotearoa ! :)

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  149. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    Religion is about the falleness of man and it is then mankind that is at stake. Ceasar OR God has always been the big piece. It always will be.

    reid, can you read that hundreds of times to really, really understand it, and then explain it to the rest of us?

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  150. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    No, it’s not a cop-out. I’ll always go for a right-of-centre candidate. Never ever you’ll see me voting for a Luddite or a Labour socialist, whose ascent to power will damage our country’s economy.

    Principles matter. Draw your own conclusions from it.

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  151. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    It’s never been easy for a virtual sheep farmer since the stock retention scheme went Manolo! :)

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  152. Manolo (12,622 comments) says:

    The ever-growing state, a monster that never rests: http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/12/31/40000-new-laws-take-effect-in-2014/

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  153. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    reid, can you read that hundreds of times to really, really understand it, and then explain it to the rest of us?

    [fairreasonablesensible]Pete, that’s not very fair, reasonable or sensible, is it? How about you read The Library. Start with Genesis, end with Revelations. Repeat.

    Newsflash. Harriet wasn’t quoting The Library.[/fairreasonablesensible]

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  154. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    Ryan if you don’t believe in God I’m guessing you haven’t studied the Bible. I don’t mean read it once, I mean, studied it. I doubt you’ve even read it once? And once is not enough, my friend. You need to read it hundreds of times to really, really understand it. But through God’s grace He allows us to learn it bit by bit if we approach it in the right heart and that means with a heart that’s not hardened.

    I’m afraid that I cannot make myself believe things that do not seem true. I have read the Bible enough times to know that I do not find it convincing evidence of the existence of a personal God. If I have to read it a certain number of extra times or have to think a certain way before reading it, then it would seem that God has set things up so that I am unconvinced of his existence.

    If you approach The Library with a hardened heart you’ll take out of it what Kea has taken out of it, nothing but wrath, persecution and hatred. If you approach The Library with a heart of faith, asking God to open your mind to its mysteries, it will do that, but it won’t do that if you simply say the words but don’t mean them, in your heart.

    Yes, so the Muslims tell me about the Qu’ran, and the Hare Krishnas tell me about the Bhagavad Gita, and so on. My reply to you is the same as my reply to them – if agreeing with you first is a prerequisite for being convinced by your book, it’s not going to happen.

    When you read The Library like that vistas of new understanding will open up to you that surpass your wildest imagination and will answer all your questions and raise new ones until the day you pass from this life to whatever is next, but if you never do that but simply treat The Library as lip service, all of that will remain forever closed, just like someone who never leaves their small home town and your mind and your life will suffer accordingly.

    That’s the main difference my friend, between someone who confines their mind to the world and what comparatively small and temporary pleasures it offers, and someone who looks toward the Heavens, for inspiration and answers.

    All very poetic. So, if this is your approach, why on earth do you care whether or not there is a supernatural explanation for the origin of life on earth? What would you lose if you were convinced tomorrow that a natural explanation for the origin of life on earth was most likely? It’s not like the Bible would stop doing whatever it apparently does to you, is it?

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  155. RichardX (290 comments) says:

    Harriet
    You are an imbecile
    Nothing I can say or do will change that

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  156. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    Happy New Year Ryan.

    “…..Just don’t bother. I get that it’s people like Meyer’s job to do it, just like it’s people like Dawkins’ job to argue the opposite, but it’s a pretty barren and tiny piece of territory that ends up being at stake….’

    The way I see it it all comes down to having faith and belief in the face of confusion. People of faith have faced these ‘tiny pieces’ since time immortal. It’s nothing new.

    Religion is about the falleness of man and it is then mankind that is at stake. Ceasar OR God has always been the big piece. It always will be.

    Happy New Year, Harriet!

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  157. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    “Start with Genesis, end with Revelations. Repeat.”

    You can be a very un-Christian like bugger at times Reid! :)

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  158. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    “….reid, can you read that hundreds of times to really, really understand it, and then explain it to the rest of us?…”

    Or you could instead Pete:

    ask an ex-soviet….ex Mao communist….ex Khampuchean….ex North Korean……it’s an endless and Godless list Pete.

    Happy New Year too Pete. Entrust all is well with the kids and grandkids.

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  159. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    Yeah, I get that cynical Happy New Election Year comment.

    I see DPF and the Herald are picking Mr Craig as a [ edit: much needed ] certainty. :cool:

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  160. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    “I’ll always go for a right-of-centre candidate.”

    That’s quite vague and non-commital, and a bit silly if the only right-of-centre candidates where say John Banks and Aaron Gilmore. But the electorate vote isn’t a big deal.

    Is there any current party you would vote for?

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  161. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    Have you managed to place the position of Gay folk on that evolutionary progression yet Harriet? :)

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  162. nasska (9,501 comments) says:

    This may help to fill in some of the gaps Reid. :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/q6ytl8ht8vyjaem/Faith%2010.png

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  163. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    At least you ain’t picking on the gays this time nasska! :)

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  164. nasska (9,501 comments) says:

    RichardX

    ….”Harriet
    You are an imbecile”….

    We all know that but since Baity’s done a runner the position of blog bitch is up for grabs…..to date our sexually confused & befuddled correspondent is the leading contender. :)

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  165. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    I’m afraid that I cannot make myself believe things that do not seem true. I have read the Bible enough times to know that I do not find it convincing evidence of the existence of a personal God. If I have to read it a certain number of extra times or have to think a certain way before reading it, then it would seem that God has set things up so that I am unconvinced of his existence.

    You mean you’ve dipped into it on the odd occasion, couldn’t understand it, and closed it again, don’t you. See if you had read it as I instructed you’d know it’s not God’s demonstration He exists for the benefit of the skeptical, you’d have drawn other conclusions. That’s how I can conclude “scientifically” that you haven’t read it as I instructed, Ryan. Isn’t that spooky. But I’m right, aren’t I.

    if agreeing with you first is a prerequisite for being convinced by your book, it’s not going to happen.

    Ryan it’s not me, it’s God you need first to agree with. The evidence is all around you He exists. The fact you don’t see it is why they call your condition a hardened heart, because it’s been closed, and you can open it, but no-one else can. You’re being instructed not to open it, which is why you’re so unusually aggressive over this small discussion.

    …if this is your approach, why on earth do you care whether or not there is a supernatural explanation for the origin of life on earth?

    I don’t care because I already know the answer Ryan. But I care about the truth being disseminated, which is why I originally posted the link that generated this discussion.

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  166. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    Harriet could pop over to Wainui and I could introduce him to some really sweet sheep to sort out his gender probs. I have a couple of handsome rams and a mob of lovely ewes and he could make a decision once he has met them all! :)

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  167. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    “….We all know that but since Baity’s done a runner the position of blog bitch is up for grabs…..to date our sexually confused & befuddled correspondent is the leading contender….”

    Yes…….

    ………All the commie fucken progs here want to bitchify the males who won’t submit themselves to secular humanism[read sodomy]

    Ignorant backward hillbilly losers all of them…….are you and watty still getting it on? :cool:

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  168. Left Right and Centre (2,390 comments) says:

    Where’s Nasska ? Where’s Kea gone to ? AWOL the son of a bitch !!

    Dime – don’t be too cynical about new years resolutions. If you want to count my weight loss starting in Oct 2012 – achieved the goal in time for start of 2013 and maintained it ever since. It wasn’t a new year resolution in particular but if it helps you, you can call it one.

    JB and PEB – keep going dudes – enjoy the everyday chatter and banter.

    My downticks are worth five votes with some comments – HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!!!!!

    It’s 2014 but how long until there’s no more flat earther religious dipshits ?

    Why is my local supermarket open on New Year’s Day ? Take the day off man – normal hours save one at each end – far out !! They’re on Facebook too – didn’t even need to phone them for the holiday hours. More loss of personal interaction, but in their case that’s not so bad.

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  169. nasska (9,501 comments) says:

    It was a bit of a challenge Harriet but you finally managed to give sodomy a mention. :)

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  170. Don the Kiwi (1,318 comments) says:

    But johnboy – would any of them be virgins? :-)

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  171. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    The rams are Don we don’t do sodomy at Wainui Hills……. Not till Harriet pops over that is! :)

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  172. nasska (9,501 comments) says:

    In ancient Greece (469 – 399 BC), Socrates was
    well known for his wisdom.

    One day the great philosopher came upon an acquaintance who said
    excitedly,

    “Socrates, do you know what I just heard about one of your
    students?” Wait a moment,” Socrates replied. “Before telling
    me anything I’d like you to pass a little test. It’s called the
    Triple Filter Test.

    Triple filter?”

    “That’s right,” Socrates continued “Before you talk to me about
    my student, it might be a good idea to take a moment and filter
    what you’re going to say..

    The first filter is Truth. Have you made absolutely sure that what
    you are about to tell me is true?”

    No,” the man said, “actually I just heard about it and …”

    “All right,” said Socrates. “So you don’t really know if it’s true
    or not. Now let’s try the second filter, the filter of Goodness.

    Is what you are about to tell me about my student something good?”

    “No, on the contrary …” .

    “So,” Socrates continued, “you want to tell me something bad about
    him, but you’re not certain it’s true. You may still pass the test
    though, because there’s one filter left: the filter of Usefulness.

    Is what you want to tell me about my student going to be useful
    to me?”

    “No, not really.”

    “Well,” concluded Socrates, “if what you want to tell me is neither
    true nor good nor even useful, why tell it to me at all?”

    This is the reason Socrates was a great philosopher and held in
    such high esteem.

    It also explains why he never found out that Plato was banging
    his wife.

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  173. Left Right and Centre (2,390 comments) says:

    Whoops – I’m blind – the doctor is in fact in today. Help me doctor Nazzie I’m blind !!

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  174. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    You mean you’ve dipped into it on the odd occasion, couldn’t understand it, and closed it again, don’t you.

    No, Reid, I meant what I said.

    More specifically, I mean that I spent many years reading it daily and seriously, along with any other good Christian literature I could get my hands on, from CS Lewis to Chesterton to John of the Cross to Augustine to RC Sproul and others; prayed daily and felt a genuine relationship with God through Christ; spent a lot of time arguing apologetics for theism in general and Christianity in particular; and spent two years studying to be a Christian minister at Carey Baptist Bible College, with some courses at the Catholic Institute of Theology.

    Is what I mean.

    if agreeing with you first is a prerequisite for being convinced by your book, it’s not going to happen.

    Ryan it’s not me, it’s God you need first to agree with. The evidence is all around you He exists. The fact you don’t see it is why they call your condition a hardened heart, because it’s been closed, and you can open it, but no-one else can. You’re being instructed not to open it, which is why you’re so unusually aggressive over this small discussion.

    I apologise if I’ve seemed aggressive. Sometimes my enjoyment of argument can sort of eclipse remembering there’s a person on the other end of it.

    To understand what I’m saying, imagine a Muslim telling you that you have hardened your heart to Islam and if you could just read the Qu’ran with an open heart, you would realise that Allah is inviting you to abandon falsehood and enter into a relationship with Him.

    …if this is your approach, why on earth do you care whether or not there is a supernatural explanation for the origin of life on earth?

    I don’t care because I already know the answer Ryan. But I care about the truth being disseminated, which is why I originally posted the link that generated this discussion.

    You already know the answer to how life originated on earth? Are you certain? Open to the possibility of being wrong?

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  175. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    “…..I’m afraid that I cannot make myself believe things that do not seem true. I have read the Bible enough times to know that I do not find it convincing evidence of the existence of a personal God. If I have to read it a certain number of extra times or have to think a certain way before reading it, then it would seem that God has set things up so that I am unconvinced of his existence….”

    Do you have faith in anything at all Ryan?

    Or do you sit about working out the probibility of chance on everything working or not working?

    Last time I looked all the scientists at NASA checked, re-checked, and re-checked again that space vehicals were in good working order.

    Then just before take-off they tell the media that “we have our fingers crossed”.

    I bet the ones inside blessed themselves in the form of a cross too!

    Science isn’t everything when it has the fallibility of man involved in the equation.

    Religion deals with man – not science. And that is why a large proportion of scientists are religious. They understand that we need it.

    No one takes social science seriously. :cool:

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  176. Left Right and Centre (2,390 comments) says:

    Issues:

    (1) Bad tenants that cause expensive damage and throw out of control parties etc. More powers to evict them with little to no notice in extreme cases. Remove them physically from property and lock them up if they refuse to comply.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/southern/9568645/Police-shut-down-New-Year-party

    On the TV news it looked like a lot of the graffiti and damage was clearly been there for some time, not from one party. The whole house was a write-off and probably had been for quite some time before the cameras turned up to shoot the horror. I feel for the landlord and neighbours.

    (2) Tobacco. More price hikes. Only the the well-off and those prepared to fork out a small fortune can keep the game going. Why are people quiting the ciggies ? Read a 101 economics book. People would quit petrol too if it jumped to $10 / litre. Just ask the 1970s.

    (3) Effectively the lowest road toll ever in NZ in 2013. I’d like a breakdown of people that caused crashes divided into their economic decile number. You’d get the usual over-repped stats.

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  177. RichardX (290 comments) says:

    Reid
    You think I am hallucinating
    I think you are deluded
    I don’t doubt your sincerity, just your sanity
    Your ability to disregard any inconvenient science because it doesn’t fit with your interpretation of an old book is breath taking in its arrogance

    To paraphrase Matt Dillahunty, I prefer to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible
    The single most reliable source we have in determining what is true is science. Science does not require faith. The hypocrisy of using a statement like “You believe what you believe because you want to believe it” while disregarding scientific evidence is difficult to fathom

    Considering your constant references to cognitive dissonance, I suggest the reason you state you are immune to it is that you have the ability to convince yourself that your beliefs are not contradictory by ignoring anything that may suggest such a contradiction

    It is however a pointless discussion though as there is nothing I can say or any evidence that I can present that will change your beliefs

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  178. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    What an innings from Corey Anderson, that was incredible stuff. I don’t believe the windies would have chased that score down in 50 overs, let alone 21. Stuff Corey, he is looking like a younger Nathan Astle, Hopefully he will continue to improve and become a genuine NZ all rounder.

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  179. RichardX (290 comments) says:

    Harriet (3,290 comments) says:
    January 1st, 2014 at 8:09 pm
    Do you have faith in anything at all Ryan?
    Or do you sit about working out the probibility of chance on everything working or not working?

    Don’t be an imbecile Harriet
    Check your definition of faith in the context of this discussion

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  180. Left Right and Centre (2,390 comments) says:

    The lesser highlights of running on new years eve – or any time for that matter….

    Between 8pm – midnight I observed things such as….

    (1) Bloke delivering junk mail. On new years eve late evening. (2) Bloke gets out of his reasonable looking small hatchback to sift through donations left outside a charity shop. To me that’s pretty low and shameless. (3) About ten teens at a park letting off fireworks. I think I saw someone from a house tell them what was going to happen next. (4) A house that looked like no-one home with their big garage door fully open. It’s almost right on the street. Later on it was finally closed.

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  181. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    Do you have faith in anything at all Ryan?

    Or do you sit about working out the probibility of chance on everything working or not working?

    I don’t believe anything, Harriet, but I have many suspicions.

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  182. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    Science gets a big fat fail when it tries to explain creation or evolution.
    These your ancestors Ryan?

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  183. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    Shattering news here. Particularly for you Reid. Brains of religious folk are thicker.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11180273

    Us non religious folk are generally thicker in other anatomical regions I suspect! :)

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  184. nasska (9,501 comments) says:

    Mostly it’s the skin that thickens JB…..those of us who take the time to open the blinds for the Godwhacks sure need it. :)

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  185. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    Don’t be an imbecile Harriet
    Check your definition of faith in the context of this discussion.

    It’s the very same definition as it always is when the existence of God comes up. You don’t get another sort. You either have faith in his existance or not. But go ahead, give me another.

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  186. Lucia Maria (1,988 comments) says:

    Well, Johnboy,

    It just goes to show that we aren’t spiritual beings having a physical existence, but instead our spirituality and physicality are intertwined.

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  187. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    …..those of us who take the time to open the blinds..

    Ah ha……I see you are taking onboard what I said to you yesterday Nasska:

    Walk in the light and not in the darkness!

    Welcome aboard. :cool:

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  188. Left Right and Centre (2,390 comments) says:

    It just goes to show that we aren’t spiritual beings having a physical existence, but instead our spirituality and physicality are intertwined.

    Don’t use the non-word ‘phyiscality’. It’s American, and it’s been adopted by many a kiwi who doesn’t know the difference between themselves and an American. Usage is prevalent in rugby circles, but it’s a newer phenomenon. I can’t wait for rugby commentators to copy the American use of ‘athlete’ to describe any sportsperson. That will be next no doubt.

    The way people use language gives clues as to who they are and what they get up to. In this case – a superstitious peasant who talks waffly shit through the wrong hole. Intelligent life in this form translates to the ability to brush their teeth and keep a vehicle on one side of the road and not a lot else.

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  189. Left Right and Centre (2,390 comments) says:

    And talking of American – NZ connections…. Steven Adams – young kiwi who has so far cracked the big-time in the NBA.

    Well done. (1) How long is the TV sports news going to cover highlights of every single game he plays in ? The novelty is wearing thin.

    (2) His kiwi accent, which way will it go ? Will he do a David Tua and adopt a fully American accent inside 6 – 12 months ? Or will he be more like Scott Dixon, who has acquired a kiwi – yank mix through the natural process of accent immersion – and still retains traces or most of his distinctly NZ flavour.

    Such is the nature of this little country that there are plenty of NZders who play sport overseas. What are you going to do, show all of them every time they play sport that day ? No.

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  190. RichardX (290 comments) says:

    Harriet (3,292 comments) says:
    January 1st, 2014 at 8:33 pm

    It’s the very same definition as it always is when the existence of God comes up. You don’t get another sort. You either have faith in his existance or not. But go ahead, give me another.

    Don’t be an imbecile Harriet

    From http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/faith

    Definition of faith in English
    faith
    Pronunciation: /feɪθ/
    Translate faith | into French | into German | into Italian | into Spanish
    noun
    [mass noun]
    1 complete trust or confidence in someone or something:
    this restores one’s faith in politicians
    2 strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof:
    bereaved people who have shown supreme faith

    Your example was clearly under definition 1 when the thread refers to definition 2

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  191. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    “……The way people use language gives clues as to who they are and what they get up to….

    ……. In this case – a superstitious peasant who talks waffly shit through the wrong hole. Intelligent life in this form translates to the ability to brush their teeth and keep a vehicle on one side of the road and not a lot else……”

    The way people use language gives clues as to who they are and what they get up to….

    In this case LRC………a spontanous fool. Intelligent life in this form translates to the ability to brush their cell and keep a plastic spoon on one side of their bowl and not a lot else……”

    You need to slow down a bit LRC. :cool:

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  192. Left Right and Centre (2,390 comments) says:

    Too funny – I’ve just turned off one of the swarms of adverts for the ceaseless ‘Boxing Day Sales’. It’s fucking January of the following year mate. Give it up.

    For a limited time only ? It’s totally fucking mindless. Head-shaking numb white noise. How can it be for a limited time only ? It’s been going for a week for something observed by a mostly secular nation for one single day. It’s completely loopy.

    Just keep going until Easter. It’s the Boxing Day Sale until the Easter Sale starts and keeps going into June.

    Talking of Easter – how do you turn something that’s not terribly exciting into the greatest thing ever invented ? That’s right – turn every Easter-themed symbol into chocolate. And other yummy treats for fatties. Chocolate bunnies, chocolate eggs, chocolate for everyone !!

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  193. Left Right and Centre (2,390 comments) says:

    We’re all living in one form of prison cell or another Harry. Did you mean ‘spontaneous’? I can’t find anything for ‘spontanous’.

    Brilliant comment Harry – are they all going to be of such high quality ? I want to see more works of genius from you.

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  194. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    “……Your example was clearly under definition 1 when the thread refers to definition 2……”

    Harriet (3,293 comments) says:
    January 1st, 2014 at 8:09 pm

    [ryan] “…..I’m afraid that I cannot make myself believe things that do not seem true. I have read the Bible enough times to know that I do not find it convincing evidence of the existence of a personal God. If I have to read it a certain number of extra times or have to think a certain way before reading it, then it would seem that God has set things up so that I am unconvinced of his existence….”

    Do you have faith in anything at all Ryan?

    Or do you sit about working out the probibility of chance on everything working or not working?……..

    ……….Religion deals with man – not science. And that is why a large proportion of scientists are religious. They understand that we need it.

    ———————————-

    Split hairs if you can.

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  195. Steve (North Shore) (4,318 comments) says:

    I think there are some who miss their medication today, well not miss, just misplaced.
    New Years Day General Debate turned into yet another ‘Generaly Religious Debate’
    Saw my fucking cock off, give it a rest ffs.
    Now, where are Street, King, Cunliffe, Hone, and what are they doing with our TAX???

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  196. RichardX (290 comments) says:

    Harriet (3,294 comments) says:
    January 1st, 2014 at 9:15 pm
    And that is why a large proportion of scientists are religious. They understand that we need it.

    Don’t be an imbecile Harriet

    Have you any facts or citations to back up your assertions or are you just making up stuff again?

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  197. Reid (15,530 comments) says:

    Open to the possibility of being wrong?

    Always.

    What turned you, Ryan?

    New Years Day General Debate turned into yet another ‘Generaly Religious Debate’

    It was Pete’s fault, Steve. He wasn’t being fair, reasonable or sensible.

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  198. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    “…..Have you any facts or citations to back up your assertions or are you just making up stuff again?…”

    I read about 6 months or so ago that threr are lots and lots and lots of people who are both scientists and religious.

    No…….I can’t be bothered looking it up for you Richard.

    Just give it some thought……….

    Are all scientists not religious?

    Are all religious people not scientists?

    Have any children who went to religious schools in NZ never become scientists? Or did they all turn their back on religion when they took up uni science courses?

    ect.

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  199. Left Right and Centre (2,390 comments) says:

    Nutrition of your average tall skinny white teen bloke…..

    Cookie Time Chocolate Chunk 85g $2.29
    Nice & Natural Nut Bar Almond 192g $2.60
    Nice & Natural Chco Nut Apricot Bar 180g $2.60
    Jack Links Stick Peppermint Beef 12g (impulse at checkout. Product at eyeline) X 2 @ 99c each
    Kiwi Blue Still Water 1.5L $1.60
    Goulburn Valley Peach 220g $2.20
    Red Bull Drink Taurine 4 x 250ml. 2 packs. On special $6.20 each pack

    These dudes won’t stay skinny into their 20s / 30s if they keep that up long-term. That’s just a big list of bullshit products !! Cha – ching for people who sell crap that no-one needs.

    There’s nothing ‘nice & natural’ about those fucking muesli bars. :)

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  200. RichardX (290 comments) says:

    Don’t be an imbecile Harriet

    Your opinions and generalisations are not facts, they are something you have made up

    And as I have pointed out to you in the past, ect is meaningless
    etc is an abbreviation for et cetera

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  201. Left Right and Centre (2,390 comments) says:

    Richie – Harry is some tin of shit internet turd and you’re giving it the time of day instead of what you should be doing – which is just laughing at the dipshit. So who is worse… you, or it ?

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  202. Steve (North Shore) (4,318 comments) says:

    Pete needs an old school horse saddle, so he can sit in the fence and the wire won’t cut his arse.
    Pathetic girly sympathic man who won’t stand his ground.
    UF rules hahaha!!!!

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  203. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    Richard………….you seem pissed off.

    Because of my opinions ? Hardly.

    I’m no authority on any given subject matter whatsoever, least of all on what I talk about!

    Why on earth would you take whay I say seriously ?

    I think you need to get out and get some confidence or something……….harden up maybe.

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  204. ShawnLH (1,881 comments) says:

    Pete George opined:

    ” Hint – don’t pin your hopes on a non-existent Narrow Idealist party to win the election and return New Zealand to a time that never was with policies that will never be.”

    This is another Public Service Translation for those who do not understand Liberal New-Speak.

    “Whine – don’t pin your hopes on a values based party that I personally don’t like and return New Zealand to a time when you could leave your front door open with no fear and with policies that are offensive to my Liberal dogma. Instead, vote for the utterly useless Peter Dunne party.”

    Hope that helps! :)

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  205. calendar girl (1,108 comments) says:

    Ross12: thanks for your response at 4:49pm. As a WCC ratepayer you are more entitled than I am to approve of WCC’s expenditure on what I would regard as frivolous entertainment, and good on you for doing so if that’s the kind of benefit you want from part of your rates payments.

    Personally, I’m sceptical. I’m old-fashioned enough to see rates as being for necessary public services and amenities for the city or district. But if the actual ratepayers of a city are willing collectively to give the Council a discretion to spend funds on community amusements, that’s fine – such is the democratic process. But I think personally that “user pays” is usually a better method of funding entertainment / amusements.

    Have a good year, Ross12.

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  206. Morrissey (7 comments) says:

    Monique, I’ll stop calling you stupid when you stop saying stupid things, like pretending that you know something that the world’s scientists don’t know.

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  207. Rowan (1,729 comments) says:

    It will be a real shame if Corey Andersons ton today doesn’t count as a world record because there were not 25 overs per side. Its 100 runs regardless of how many overs that were bowled in the match.

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Anderson-hits-fastest-ODI-century/tabid/415/articleID/326948/Default.aspx

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  208. Lucia Maria (1,988 comments) says:

    Don’t use the non-word ‘phyiscality’. It’s American, and it’s been adopted by many a kiwi who doesn’t know the difference between themselves and an American. [blah, blah, blah ...]

    I didn’t. If you were to read carefully, you would see that the word that I used and the word that you said I used are not spelt the same.

    That out of the way, I’ll use any word I damn well please.

    Man, this from a person who at times sprays swear words like spittle.

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  209. Left Right and Centre (2,390 comments) says:

    I didn’t. If you were to read carefully, you would see that the word that I used and the word that you said I used are not spelt the same.

    It’s obviously a typo. Lucia is a swear word in my book. My opinion is that god is a total and utter retarded cunt faced piece of shit.
    :) :)

    Just like his followers.

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  210. Pete George (21,804 comments) says:

    Left Right and Centre – that’s a disgusting comment. I hope you reflect on it and see fit to apologise to Kiwibloggers and to DPF. Crap like that shits on all of us.

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  211. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:
    Open to the possibility of being wrong?

    Always.

    Good to hear. So, it seems that you err on the side of a supernatural explanation for the origin of life on Earth due to a combination of there being no proven natural explanation (impossible without time travel) and your broader set of beliefs regarding the Bible’s claims in general.

    Meanwhile, I err on the side of assuming a natural explanation that can’t ever be known for certain, due to an observation of a long history of supernatural explanations being superseded by natural explanations once discovered (earthquakes, lightning, disease, diversity of life on earth, etc.)

    It’s just that unlike with all of the other natural explanations that have replaced supernatural ones, there can never be concrete evidence to convince you. I can say, “Look, lightning is static electricity – I can make it myself with this device!” and you will say, “Oh, lightning’s not God’s doing after all.” And I can say, “Look, rainbows are refracted light – I can make them myself with this prism.” And you’ll say, “Oh, rainbows aren’t God painting the sky to promise not to slaughter everyone again.” And I can say, “Look, diseases aren’t demons – you can see the bacteria through this microscope.”

    But the actual historical origin of DNA on earth are non-repeatable and therefore non-demonstrable. It’s a tiny uncloseable gap for the God of the Gaps.

    What turned you, Ryan?

    No one thing in particular. It was a long process that felt less like rejecting Christianity (and later, theism) and more like coming out the other side with fond memories. Ironically, I think it began with reading a line from Christian mystic Meister Eckhart: “What is truth? Truth is something so noble that if God could turn aside from it, I could keep to the truth and let God go.”

    New Years Day General Debate turned into yet another ‘Generaly Religious Debate’

    It was Pete’s fault, Steve. He wasn’t being fair, reasonable or sensible.

    But isn’t this is way more fun than “Dur, Labour sucks. Dur, National sucks.”?

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