General Debate 22 January 2014

January 22nd, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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180 Responses to “General Debate 22 January 2014”

  1. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    John Key has given Peter Dunne’s chances an early election year boost and this gives his United Future party a very good opportunity. However beyond Dunne the party is MIA. They need to step up soon, or Dunne is destined to be a one MP party.

    Key offers United Future an opportunity

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  2. sbk (312 comments) says:

    funny…Rand Paul’s response to Obama’s NSA speech…”ïf you like your privacy,you can keep it.”

    yep…just about sums up the Obama presidency.

    but hell…with “pen and paper” the Founding Fathers wrote a document…..with “pen and a phone” Obama…….not so funny.

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  3. James Stephenson (2,191 comments) says:

    Destined?! How long ago did that future arrive?

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  4. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    The Herald is definitely on Lecher Len’s case . . . headlines in his favour again this morning. Also see Fairfax giving the sanctimonious Laidlaw a bit of news space, reckons there is 10 million needed for alternative water in Wgtn. One should think with his adeptness in fiscal creativity, it would be a breeze, even if a little warm!

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  5. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Europe calls a time out on a trade deal with the USA over concerns that legal guarantees to corporates (compensation for any government action adverse to the corporate) undermine government efforts in areas of health and environment.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25829604

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  6. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    Len Brown’s charm offensive continues (with “offensive” being the operative word!) in the Herald today. He’s done an interview with Bernard Orsman, and not only is he not going anywhere, but he’s planning to stand again in 2016!

    Here’s a Public Health Warning; if you choose to read it, keep a bucket handy. It’s truly nauseating, but I took one for the team :P

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/01/get-bucket-ready.html

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  7. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    I agree with NZ Herald agree in Editorial: Voters need to know before vote

    Key’s right, Peters is wrong on post-election alliances.

    Mr Peters said: “The general election should be decided by voters, not by backroom deals between political parties. The time for talking about forming governments,” he said, “should be immediately after the election and not before.” He could not be more wrong. Voters go to elections for one reason alone – to elect the next government. They do not cast their vote for the pleasure of watching party leaders indulge themselves in post-election negotiations.

    The clearer the choice of governments can be for voters before an election, the better it is for voters, for the legitimacy of the government that results and for our democracy. Mr Key should do his utmost to present a likely coalition to the country ahead of the election.

    Common sense and clear indications are not the style of Winston Peters, he will remain contrary and take his chances – which will be more difficult for him than last election.

    The Conservative Party will compete for votes with NZ First , especially if media don’t contrive to give Peters a late campaign boost as they did in 2011 then voters may decide not to give Peters the opportunity to indulge in back room deals after the election.

    As Key said yesterday, a relationship with Mr Peters’ party was “most unlikely”.

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  8. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    The Herald talks a lot more sense than Peters does Pete; on this subject, at least.

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  9. Carlos (683 comments) says:

    Feral alert!

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11189976

    Why are these pricks allowed to party and disrupt the neighbours so much?

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  10. alex Masterley (1,517 comments) says:

    An interesting comment on this on zb as I was driving to work this morning. 6 months ago people were saying national had no potential coalition partners. not the landscape is littered with them. 6 months ago labour had all the options. now they only have the greens and mana. from a labour perspective i’d say the landscape is pretty bleak now.
    if anyone wants to see what happens with a labour green coalition, look at the basket case which is Tasmania.

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  11. Harriet (4,975 comments) says:

    The Leader’s debates prior to the election will be fucking interesting if US ‘income inequalty’ is anything to go by – John Key and Bill English will tear a new arsehole in David ‘Focusing on the 1.8% of Americans that make $200,000 or more a year does little to advance reality’ Cunliffe. :cool: :cool:

    “…..Differences in family income from the bottom to top are also narrow. 90% of Americans make between $30K and $90K a year. Visualizing “poor” versus “rich” by comparing a homeless person to Warren Buffet may be dramatic, but highlighting the vivid exceptions to the statistical truth does not accurately portray demographic realities of income.

    The top 20% are not all multi-millionaires. Focusing on the 1.8% of Americans that make $200,000 or more a year does little to advance reality. Most in the top 20% in America make less than $100,000 a year; and as Thomas Sowell has shown, an absolute majority of Americans in the bottom 20% make it into the top 20% over the course of approximately 17 years.

    The bottom 20% does not mean “skid row.” Most of the people in the bottom 20% in America do not live on the streets or remain at the bottom for very long. If escaping from poverty is impossible, why do so many risk their lives on rafts or cross deserts to reach America if not to escape poverty?

    Culture must be weighed into income data. The poor in America are far richer in real economic terms than the rich in many places around the globe. When the bottom 20% in America has a higher standard of living than the top 20% in many other countries, the cries of income inequality are disingenuous.

    Using government data, Nicholas Eberstadt showed that in 1900 2% of homes had electricity and only one out of ten had flush toilets. In addition, fewer people lived in poverty in 1973 than today but in 1973 most poor people did not have a car while 75% of “poor” people today have a car. Today more “poor” homes have cell phones and cable TV than non-poor families had in 1970. One of the biggest problems of the “poor” today is not malnutrition; it is heart disease and diabetes found among obese individuals.

    In addition, time, age, wisdom, skills experience, and productivity must also be factored into any analysis of income inequality. And don’t forget the laws of supply and demand are also constantly at play. Even equal opportunities differentiate income because not everyone will make the same choices with the freedom they are given. As Walter Williams says: income is “earned, not distributed” and “far more important than income inequality is productivity inequality.”

    The cry to equalize wages sounds harmless and seems “fair,” but it comes at the cost of efficiency. The lost incentives and signals that varying incomes provide to the market provide far more in terms of raising the standard of living for everyone than any moral benefit offered by do-gooders looking to seize power by sounding compassionate.

    With the platform of “income inequality,” the left is utilizing semantic sleight of hand and emotional rhetoric to create an illusion by confusion. This drumbeat will be struck constantly as a political tool, like hammer and sickle, to gain power.

    The goal of progressive theatre is to fly as peaceful as a butterfly in order to mask the true intent of building an iron curtain. Liberals can sing “In A Gadda Da Vida” as long as they want, but there is no Garden of Eden in a world of scarcity.

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/01/beating_the_income_inequality_drum_3.html

    This will see John Key remain PM.

    And tommrrow I will post why Colin Craig will become a PM. :cool:

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  12. Paul Marsden (998 comments) says:

    Just read Browns interview in NZ Herald. I kid you not, I almost felt sick reading that diatribe. That guy has a real problem (and so does Auckland)

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  13. peterwn (3,275 comments) says:

    igm – Chris Laidlaw is not involved, it is Chris Laidlow who is General Manager of Wellington Region’s bulk water supply.

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  14. Harriet (4,975 comments) says:

    “…And tomorrow I will post why Colin Craig will become a PM….”

    That ment to say MP.

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  15. calendar girl (1,242 comments) says:

    The scandal-ridden Len Brown again, treating his city with breathtakng disdain. Still not 6 months into his second term as Auckland’s Mayor, yet dreaming of a third term to follow.

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  16. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    That guy has a real problem (and so does Auckland)

    It’s called Narcissistic Personality Disorder and he has all the symptoms.

    http://psychcentral.com/disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder-symptoms/

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  17. duggledog (1,559 comments) says:

    Thanks for the correction Harriet I almost choked.

    Any chance you can post that submission today please, or at least bullet points?

    Paul Marsden – Auckland’s problem is NZ’s problem, in that kiwis as a whole don’t protest or complain in large groups:)

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  18. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Peterwn: I have erred, thinking he had changed his name to one more appropriate after exposure.

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  19. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    New Zealand looks set to receive fewer tours in future as England, Australia and India decide they no longer want to be bound by any requirement to play other nations. The end of a tour schedule means that nations make bi-lateral deals on an ad hoc basis.

    Nations not offering high broadcast revenues placed down the list, so we become one of the cricketing world’s version of the Pacific nations in union.

    The future of the game will be as a feeder to county cricket in England and the IPL in India.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/sport/9634575/NZ-Crickets-financial-future-on-the-line

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  20. Harriet (4,975 comments) says:

    “…..Any chance you can post that submission today please, or at least bullet points?…”

    + “…..The Greens move, by acting leader Richard Di Natale, to scrap the tradition is another demonstration of their disconnect from the mainstream. Senator Di Natale contends ditching the prayer will reinforce the separation of church and state when this separation is the very endowment of the traditions it reflects. He suggests it is not attuned to a pluralistic and multicultural society when that, too, has been bequeathed by these traditions…..” – The Australian’s Editorial.

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  21. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/06/first-congress-member-allowed-to-read-secret-treaty-says-there-is-no-national-security-purpose-in-keeping-this-text-secret-this-agreement-hands-the-sovereignty-of-our-country-over-t.html

    …to corporations. It’s the TPP, of course. Worth looking at the video, which shows the congressman who said that in action over another matter.

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  22. TMC (75 comments) says:

    The Len interview. Un-frickin-believable. What planet is this guy on??? And where is Labour on all this? He is a member of their party yes? Wasn’t Labour against the SkyCity deal and yet here is Len being pro-SkyCity and only to be found out that he’s been on the take? Forget about the affair, the roots in the office and wanks at his desk, it’s just plain corruption & lies. How is he even still there? If the councilors can’t or won’t do it, get rid of them ALL. Isn’t there a protest/march coming up? Those aren’t my thing as I’d class myself in the too busy actually working category but I may actually find time for this one. For f*cks sake. He should have been gone by now.

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  23. redqueen (567 comments) says:

    The good news about this new round of pro-Len articles, showing ‘his side’ and ‘what he thinks’, and how he’s completely a space cadet, is that it might actually motivate people on the right, myself included, to not merely vote but actually campaign for a right-wing candidate. What an absolute wanker…but last time, it was, ‘Eh, not voting for Brown’, this time, it’ll be, ‘Must find a way to get this prick out of office!’ As he seems completely set on staying, he’s creating real anomosity (from starting as a bad joke) and we might just end up kicking him out on that basis.

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  24. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    lol @ the herald. could they be more transparent.

    cant wait til they go broke.

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  25. Longknives (4,764 comments) says:

    Top seeds dropping like flies in the heat at the Australian Open…
    Nutty Climate Change people claiming that this is somehow proof of Global Warming! (Wasn’t it only a few weeks ago that they got themselves stuck in the ice?)
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/australian-open-tennis/news/article.cfm?c_id=500857&objectid=11187663

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  26. J Bloggs (241 comments) says:

    TMC: the councillors CAN’T get rid of him. No-one can (except maybe the Minister of Local Government). The great big flaw in the super city set-up has been well and truly exposed by this prat.

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  27. flipper (4,083 comments) says:

    OK igm,

    I ticked your reference to Laidlaw this morning because of “creativity”.

    But listen, Laidlaw is yesterday’s man.. a time sever, and what ever you say or infer will not recall him.

    PITY. So dont waste your time. :-)

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  28. All_on_Red (1,584 comments) says:

    “TMC: the councillors CAN’T get rid of him. No-one can (except maybe the Minister of Local Government). The great big flaw in the super city set-up has been well and truly exposed by this prat.”

    Well we couldn’t anyway before and neither can we get rid of Members of Parliament once they have been elected.
    If you want that, then you need recall referendums.

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  29. All_on_Red (1,584 comments) says:

    sbk
    Very good. I liked the retort about how A and E who produce Duck Dynasty were going to do a new show based in the White House called “Duck Responsibility”!

    More recently Obama said he wouldn’t want his son ( if he had one) to be a pro football player, to which the reply was, we wouldn’t want our son to be an Ambassador under Obama- ouch.( cough Benghazi cough)

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  30. J Bloggs (241 comments) says:

    All_on_Red: True, but at least troublesome MP’s can be neutered by their party if they are having or percieved as having a negative impact – witness Aaron Gilmore and David Shearer this last year alone. Doesn’t stop them troughing for the rest of thier terms, but it minimises the damage they can do. No one can take the reins off Dictator Len.

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  31. Rowan (2,409 comments) says:

    Nice guys ‘do’ actually commit henious crimes , yes its not rational, but it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, I’m sure Edward Livingstone was the ‘loving father’ and the ‘nice guy’ that his brother makes out, but he clearly had issues and wasn’t coping.
    Sounds very similar to the late Mr Bain.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11189997

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  32. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    Now that we are in election year.. what sort of bribes do you think we will be offered?

    National – cut in corporate tax? Can they actually offer a PAYE tax cut? hardly anyone but “the rich” pay income tax now. The media and the left will be screaming “tax cuts for the rich! tax cuts for all of john keys mates”

    Maybe national will surprise us and include the tax cut in the coming budget? That way its coming in (probably post election) and then they campaign on the old “keep your tax cut”. then again, they did cancel a tax cut once.. different circumstances but they have history..

    As for the left – punishment tax for the “rich”. WORKING for families for people who dont work.. living wage for all? living wage for all govt workers? They will no doubt be hammering “inequality” cause a lazy asshole who doesnt work should earn close to what a hard working guy earns… cause umm.. they hate the “rich”

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  33. nickb (3,687 comments) says:

    dime – there have been rumours going around about a cut in fuel taxes. That would be good. Unless the oil companies in all their charity decide thanks to their wafer thin margins they can’t pass on all of the price decrease…

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  34. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    $1 million bid not enough to buy state house in sought-after area

    Bella Bowden, a Housing NZ tenant in Mission Bay is being threatened with eviction despite finding $1 million to buy the property

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10895270

    A kiwi being villified for having the audacity for paying cash for housing

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  35. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    You just can’t help yourself, can you Rowan? That’s an absolutely gutless suggestion to make.

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  36. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    ‘Now that we are in election year.. what sort of bribes do you think we will be offered?’

    The economy will be manipulated in favor of National so key can sign the TPP and drain NZ as NAFTA did to Nth America

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  37. Scott Chris (6,150 comments) says:

    Sounds very similar to the late Mr Bain.

    What was David late for?

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  38. nickb (3,687 comments) says:

    A kiwi being villified for having the audacity for paying cash for housing

    You don’t think the audacity of this women stems more from living in a $1m mission bay taxpayer subsidised state house despite having the cash to buy it?

    I’d like to see your costed election manifesto, wiki. Mansions for all?

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  39. Elaycee (4,393 comments) says:

    9.53am….

    Jesus Wept! Can’t we have ONE single day without some weak reference / pathetic comment from the cheer squad?

    Zzzzzzzzzz…

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  40. muggins (3,787 comments) says:

    Rowan,
    One major difference between Edward Livingstone and Robin Bain is that Livingston shot his children and then committed suicide whereas Robin Bain did not.
    We all know that David Bain lied on oath when he said he hadn’t been wearing his mother’s glasses and the reason he lied about them is because he knew he would not be able to explain how the frame came to be damaged and how one lens from those glasses came to be in his brother’s room.
    He couldn’t explain how his brother’s blood came to be on his clothes.
    He couldn’t explain how he got those bruises on his head and torso.
    He couldn’t explain why he waited twenty minutes before phoning the emergency services, even though he heard his sister Laniet gurgling.
    He did have an explanation as to why a pristine set of his fingerprints were found in blood on the rifle . He said they must have been in animal blood dating back to the summer. You can believe that if you want to ,Rowan, but it seems most unlikely to me.

    My apologies to all those fed up to the back teeth with the Bain saga.

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  41. Rowan (2,409 comments) says:

    Righto KS, the truth hurts doesn’t it, and Elaycee if you actually bothered to look most of the threads are actually started by the lynch mob, not this one but for instance by NickB and Longknives yesterday.

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  42. Rowan (2,409 comments) says:

    Yawn
    Aunt Fanny
    The article was about actually Edward Livingstone you fruitcake, I really can’t be bothered going over your C&P lies, you have been told all the answers to these, but you clearly ‘know’ better don’t you!
    You can’t explain any of the ‘evidence’ any better than the prosecution so you have to misrepresent it and lie.
    What does that make you Muggins? The answer is a pathetic piece of s**t and it is not worth the time of day to repond to you.

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  43. OneTrack (3,114 comments) says:

    “cause a lazy asshole who doesnt work should earn close to what a hard working guy earns”

    cause a lazy asshole who doesn’t work should get exactly the same as a hard working guy earns – because that would be “fair”. We are all “equal” (on the farm)

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  44. OneTrack (3,114 comments) says:

    “there have been rumours going around about a cut in fuel taxes”

    There is also a guarantee that if a Labour/Green taniwha gets in, there will be a spike in fuel taxes ( ETS/Carbon/whatever else they can tack on)

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  45. muggins (3,787 comments) says:

    Rowan,
    You have just contradicted yourself. You said it was not worth the time of day responding to me when you responded to me.
    If it was not worth the time of day responding to me then how come you responded to my post?
    BTW, had a look at the last post you made yesterday. You are mistaken again when you said the shot to Robin Bain’s head was a hard contact wound. It was a close contact wound. The only time that David Bain held his rifle hard against anyone’s head was when he fired one of those three bullets into Laniet. He would have done that to stop her gurgling.
    Also, it is not me that can’t explain that evidence that points to David Bain as being the perpetrator, it is David Bain who can’t explain it. I have no problem explaining it.

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  46. Longknives (4,764 comments) says:

    “…actually started by the lynch mob, not this one but for instance by NickB and Longknives yesterday.”

    No lynch mob from me Rowan- I was merely pointing out that I found Davey Bain’s fixation with what knickers his sister was buried in more than a little creepy!

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  47. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    Righto KS, the truth hurts doesn’t it

    It must Rowan. That’s the only possible explanation as to your incessant shilling for Bain. But to link the Bain case to the tragedy in Dunedin last week is absolute bollocks. I stand by my description of your comment as “gutless”.

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  48. nickb (3,687 comments) says:

    I was merely pointing out that I found Davey Bain’s fixation with what knickers his sister was buried in more than a little creepy!

    And I was merely pointing out the gap between DB “discovering” his family dead and calling 111, during which he washed bloodied clothes. That could have a perfectly innocent explanation. Don’t be so precious, Rowan.

    Anyway, I like discussing our worst international cricketers ever better than discussing murder.

    Paul Hitchcock?

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  49. Rowan (2,409 comments) says:

    I see the pedo supporters are out in support of their kiddy fiddling ‘daddy’

    KS,
    You and the JFRB cult are the gutless ones, to gutless to accept the truth and keep insisting you know better, Have you been putting aside anything for you leader? as he will be soon in desperate need of it.

    Keep spinning Muggins, we know this is not true but since when has the truth ever got in the way of a good story!

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  50. Elaycee (4,393 comments) says:

    And as usual, the childish comments continue:

    …Aunt Fanny…
    …you fruitcake…
    …pathetic piece of s**t…
    …threads are actually started by the lynch mob…
    …pedo supporters…
    …kiddy fiddling…

    But no surprises. None at all – because it’s all they have left.

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  51. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    Dunne is destined to be a one MP party.

    He is already a one-man circus.

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  52. Longknives (4,764 comments) says:

    No prizes for Australia’s worst-

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  53. Rowan (2,409 comments) says:

    Nick B/Longknives

    i.e. you were looking for an argument and trying to turn it into a Bain thread.

    Elaycee
    And what exactly does ‘JFRB’ have may I ask? a soon to be bankrupted cult leader who admitted lying to the court and that he had no substantiation for what he had said, then tried to say it was the ‘coffee’ that had lied not him. What a joke!
    Not looking to good for Kenty is it? can’t be to long now.

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  54. Fletch (6,408 comments) says:

    Iran dispatching warships to the Atlantic for the first time ever, but not to worry – it’s all in the name of peace.

    Iran’s navy has dispatched warships on a mission to the Atlantic Ocean for the first time in history, an Iranian news agency said.

    The flotilla, consisting of a Khark logistic and helicopter-carrier warship and Sabalan destroyer, could journey as much as 25,000 nautical kilometers in the next three months, Fars News reported Tuesday.

    No specific military mission was identified, and no ports of call were mentioned.

    Bidding farewell to the crews, Rear Admiral Seyyed Mahmoud Moussavi said Iran has a message of peace and friendship for the nations of the world and only seeks to display its defensive power capabilities.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/in-first-iranian-warships-en-route-to-atlantic/

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  55. Fletch (6,408 comments) says:

    List of 31 Obama-backed Green energy companies that have gone bust so far –

    Obama-Backed Green Energy Failures
     
    (NOTE: Bust as January 2014, which includes bankrupt, shut down and sold, placing the taxpayer money lost thus far over $3 billion.)

    Solyndra: $570.4 million 
    Beacon Power: $67.4 million  
    Abound Solar: $494.3 million 
    Vehicle Production Group (VPG): $50 million 
    Fisker Automotive: $160 million 
    A123 Systems: $390.1 million 
    Amonix: $29.6 million 
    Azure Dynamics: $119.1 million 
    Babcock & Brown: $178 million 
    Cardinal Fastener & Specialty Co.: $400,000 
    Cephas Industries: 500,000
    ECOtality Inc.: $135 million 
    EnerDel, subsidiary of Ener1: $182.8 million 
    Energy Conversion Devices Inc. (ECD): $110.3 million 
    Evergreen Solar, Inc.: $84.9 million 
    Flagbeg Solar U.S.: $20.2 million 
    GreenVolts: $500,000 
    Konarka Technologies Inc: $55.7 million 
    MiaSolé: $101.8 million 
    Mountain Plaza, Inc.: $400,000 
    Nordic WindPower: $8.6 million 
    Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills Acquisition Company: $10.8 million 
    Range Fuels: $162.3 million  
    Raser Technologies: $33 million 
    ReVolt Technology: $10 million 
    Satcon Technology Corporation: $17 million 
    SpectraWatt: $20.5 million 
    Stirling Energy Systems: $17.4 million 
    Suntech, subsidiary of Suntech Power: $2.1 million 
    Thompson River Power LLC: $6.5 million 
    Willard and Kelsey Solar Group: $12.7 million 

    http://greencorruption.blogspot.co.nz/2014/01/cleantech-crash-cbs-lesley-stahl.html

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  56. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Fletch but think of all those “Green Jobs”

    Each Green Job Obama Created Cost $11 Million

    With labor participation at 63 percent, Obama will only need to spend a few quadrillion dollars to create green jobs for everyone. I sure hope China lends us that money at a reasonable 200 trillion a year in interest, or the economic recovery might slow down.

    According to the Institute for Energy Research, the Department of Energy has spent nearly $26 billion since 2009 on its Section 1703 and 1705 loan programs. However, these two programs only yielded 2,308 permanent jobs — meaning the cost to taxpayers was $11.25 million per job.

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/each-green-job-obama-created-cost-11-million/

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  57. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    Rowan (1,492 comments) says:
    January 22nd, 2014 at 11:12 am

    You’ve lost the argument when you as usual abusively refer those who question David Bain’s innocence as “pedo” supporters etc.
    I remind you again that Binnie did not think much of the incest allegations finding a lot of “smoke but no fire.” ( about the only thing he actually got right.)

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  58. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    A crook is found guilty: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/01/21/former-va-gov-bob-mcdonnell-wife-indicted/

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  59. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    Hope and change Messiah-style: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/ali-meyer/record-20-households-food-stamps-2013

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  60. Elaycee (4,393 comments) says:

    @Rowan: Not for the first time, you’ve fired a total blank.

    My observation was based on the fact you have an obsession with some matters – along with a propensity to revert to insults / boorish comment / innuendo / etc whenever someone dares hold a view contrary to your own.

    Whether Muggins is right or wrong is not the issue for me, but I think he’s perfectly entitled to maintain his viewpoint (no different to yourself) without someone completely abandoning Roget’s Thesaurus / the Pocket Oxford in an effort to denigrate. It’s as bad as using bold font or even caps – equally obnoxious.

    And please don’t bother responding – the plane is boarding. Just argue with yourself… :)

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  61. nickb (3,687 comments) says:

    EDIT: Ha dime….where did your comment go? Ninja deletion after DPF’s new post? Or did I just read you wrong?

    GST off fresh fruit and veges…out of all the shambolic policies we will get hit with this year, GST exemptions are by far the worst. Makes a capital gains tax a walk in the park by comparison.

    Our GST system is the envy of the world and is frequently copied by countries wanting to introduce sales taxes. The key reason it is so good is that there are very few exemptions (i.e. could be counted on one hand, rental accommodation, precious metals etc).

    There was a lawsuit in the UK in the 90s that took years and millions of dollars to settle which concerned whether “Jaffa Cakes” were a cake or a biscuit. This is because their VAT (equivalent of our GST) is levied on chocolate covered biscuits, but not chocolate covered cakes. Read this link and laugh, this is the type of system LAbour wants us to have:

    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/vfoodmanual/vfood6260.htm

    I understand that in some places where “healthy foods” are exempt from sales tax things like Big Macs are mostly exempted on the basis their component parts (lettuce, meat, bread) meet the criteria for “healthy”…

    Here is another demonstration:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/5141209/Innocent-seeks-VAT-exemption-for-smoothies.html

    The west London firm, which last week controversially sold a £30m stake to Coca-Cola, has hired PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) to lodge an application for a tribunal hearing to argue that its smoothies should be exempt from VAT charges.

    Richard Reed, co-founder of Innocent, told The Sunday Telegraph: “Our whole ethos is about trying to make it easy for people to be healthy. The smoothies contain two portions of fruit which is part of healthy living yet they are subject to full tax while burgers and chips and milkshakes are tax-free. It’s absurd.”

    Under British tax rules, consumers pay no VAT on “essential” foods and drinks but must pay 17.5pc on “luxury” items such as smoothies and 100pc fruit juices. The taxation of drinks is complicated by a division into those that “increase bodily fluid levels” and those that “slake one’s thirst”. As a result of the definition, which tax experts admit are arbitrary, milk, tea and hot chocolate are not taxed but fizzy drinks and fruit juices are subject to full VAT.

    Mr Reed said: “Fruit isn’t taxed as long as it’s whole. Just because we crush it and put it in a bottle, we are subject to full VAT. We think we can argue that Innocent smoothies should be a food rather than a beverage under the Revenue’s definitions. You consume the smoothies for their healthy properties rather than to slate thirst. Innocent does many things for the body but I’m afraid it doesn’t quench your thirst.”

    Tax experts say Innocent faces an up-hill battle. Jonathan de Wilton, a VAT specialist at Grant Thornton, said: “Although there is a political drive towards healthy eating, the problem for the Government is that many of these tax rules on food are set under European law and cannot be tinkered with individually. So we’re stuck with an archaic set of rules that were brought in on April Fool’s Day 1973 which clearly define what is a drink and what is not. Under these it will be difficult for Innocent to prove it is a food and not a beverage.”

    This is where we will end up under a Labour government.

    So my challenge to Psycho Milt, Yoza et al is:

    Please provide a succinct, yet comprehensive catch all definition of “fresh fruit and vegetables” that will avoid confusion for business owners and taxpayers.

    Thanks

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  62. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    A great speech by the Canadian Prime Ministr to the Knesset yesterday.  One interesting point, as highlighted by Powerline Blog, was a description of the new Anti-Semitism:

    [W]e have witnessed, in recent years, the mutation of the old disease of anti-Semitism and the emergence of a new strain.

    We all know about the old anti-Semitism.

    It was crude and ignorant, and it led to the horrors of the death camps.

    Of course, in many dark corners, it is still with us.

    But, in much of the western world, the old hatred has been translated into more sophisticated language for use in polite society.

    People who would never say they hate and blame the Jews for their own failings or the problems of the world, instead declare their hatred of Israel and blame the only Jewish state for the problems of the Middle East.

    As once Jewish businesses were boycotted, some civil-society leaders today call for a boycott of Israel.

    On some campuses, intellectualized arguments against Israeli policies thinly mask the underlying realities, such as the shunning of Israeli academics and the harassment of Jewish students.

    Most disgracefully of all, some openly call Israel an apartheid state.

    Think about that.

    Think about the twisted logic and outright malice behind that: a state, based on freedom, democracy and the rule of law, that was founded so Jews can flourish, as Jews, and seek shelter from the shadow of the worst racist experiment in history, that is condemned, and that condemnation is masked in the language of anti-racism.

    It is nothing short of sickening.

    But this is the face of the new anti-Semitism.

    Anti-Semitism is on the rise again in Europe, and is very fashionable on the left (as always).  It is timely that I should also note that in the Western world the Jews are still on the receiving end of the largest share of hate crimes.

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  63. MH (762 comments) says:

    Don’t forget Bevan Chuang always got the job on mayorit. The mayor thought of it drives me to the bathroom.

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  64. nickb (3,687 comments) says:

    Obviously my last comment is now redundant. Good to see a DC flip flop, u turn, about face, reversal, backdown on this one.

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  65. Fletch (6,408 comments) says:

    New analysis of Syrian chemical rocket attacks by experts likely show that the Syrian Govt could not have been responsible.

    BERLIN — A series of revelations about the rocket believed to have delivered poison sarin gas to a Damascus suburb last summer are challenging American intelligence assumptions about that attack and suggest that the case U.S. officials initially made for retaliatory military action was flawed.

    A team of security and arms experts, meeting this week in Washington to discuss the matter, has concluded that the range of the rocket that delivered sarin in the largest attack that night was too short for the device to have been fired from the Syrian government positions where the Obama administration insists they originated.

    [...]

    the authors of a report released Wednesday said that their study of the rocket’s design, its likely payload and its possible trajectories show that it would have been impossible for the rocket to have been fired from inside areas controlled by the government of Syrian President Bashar Assad.

    In the report, titled “Possible Implications of Faulty U.S. Technical Intelligence,” Richard Lloyd, a former United Nations weapons inspector, and Theodore Postol, a professor of science, technology and national security policy at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, argue that the question about the rocket’s range indicates a major weakness in the case for military action initially pressed by Obama administration officials.

    [...]

    Relying on mathematical projections about the likely force of the rocket and noting that its design – some have described it as a trash can on a stick – would have made it awkward in flight, Lloyd and Postol conclude that the rocket likely had a maximum range of 2 kilometers, or just more than 1.2 miles. That range, the report explains in detail, means the rockets could not have come from land controlled by the Syrian government.

    In an interview, Postol said that a basic analysis of the weapon – some also have described as a looking like a push pop, a fat cylinder filled with sarin atop a thin stick that holds the engine – would have shown that it wasn’t capable of flying the 6 miles from the center of the Syrian government-controlled part of Damascus to the point of impact in the suburbs, or even the 3.6 miles from the edges of government-controlled ground.

    [...]

    “I honestly have no idea what happened,” Postol said. “My view when I started this process was that it couldn’t be anything but the Syrian government behind the attack. But now I’m not sure of anything. The administration narrative was not even close to reality. Our intelligence cannot possibly be correct.”

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/01/15/3873228/new-analysis-of-rocket-used-in.html

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  66. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    Fired for eating from ‘pig bin’

    A supermarket employee fired after eating a cake from the “pig bin” has been awarded $500 but told his dismissal was justified.

    A decision by the Employment Relations Authority (ERA) found theft and consumption of a cake from a supermarket pig bin warranted dismissal

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/better-business/9637098/Fired-for-eating-from-pig-bin

    New World’s on my blacklist. This was so trivial and I can’t stand that cause the system and middle class trivialises everything

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  67. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    New analysis of Syrian chemical rocket attacks by experts likely show that the Syrian Govt could not have been responsible.

    Fletch, numerous invetigations have linked the Obama backed Muslim Brotherhood to the attacks, though our local media chooses not to report that.

    We are expectd to believe Assad invited inspectors to his country, then chose that exact time to launch a big attack, targetting civilians, just down the road from where they were staying.

    Yeah right ! Of course to question the credibility of that is RACIST !

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  68. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    A supermarket employee fired after eating a cake from the “pig bin”

    wikiriwhis business, The poor; let them eat cake… or apparently not in New Worlds case ! :(

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  69. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    Oh good, Mills is back for todays game!

    The Indians love pies.

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  70. nickb (3,687 comments) says:

    I would have rather given the 145km/hr new guy (Bennett) in good form a go, especially if they are keeping up the bouncer barrage….

    My grandma could hook a Kyle Mills bouncer for 6…especially on a Seddon Park wicket.

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  71. alex Masterley (1,517 comments) says:

    Dime, the forecast is rubbish. the game might turn into a 20:20 game (or similar)

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  72. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    Kea

    New analysis of Syrian chemical rocket attacks by experts likely show that the Syrian Govt could not have been responsible.

    “likely show” ?? . Expand on that please.

    “Numerous investigations link Obama Backed Muslim Brotherhood.” ?? Fox News, Alex Jones, Prison Planet etc. ??

    Expect to believe Assad invite inspectors.?? I think his crutch Putin might have something to do with that.

    No there is nothing racist about questioning but tis important to try and stick to the facts.

    The only thing missing from your post is to , of course, blame the Jews and the Israelis.

    Maybe they’re the ones who are stymying the US to invade and annex Syria.??

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  73. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    stephieboy , I was following this for some time. All my information came from msm reports widely available on the internet. There has been a number of investigations of these allegations. Even Obamas people and allies were sceptical, along with the international community. But Obama still wanted war.

    It is a simple matter of record that Assad allowed the inspections.

    I did not mention or even hint at Jews or Israel in my comment. Why did you raise the topic of jews ? And why the lies and attributing views to me I neither hold nor have I expressed ?

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  74. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Before stephieboy hated muslims he hated….

    Israeli Settler Rabbi Praises Islamic Takeover Of Europe

    “[E]ven if we are in a major war with the region’s Arabs over the Land of Israel, Islam is still much better as a gentile culture than Christianity,” the rabbi claimed.

    “Jews should rejoice at the fact that Christian Europe is losing its identity as a punishment for what it did to us for the hundreds of years were in exile there,” Efrati continued, quoting descriptions from rabbinic literature from the middle ages about atrocities committed by Christians against Jews.

    “We will never forgive Europe’s Christians for slaughtering millions of our children, women and elderly…Not just in the recent Holocaust, but throughout the generations, in a consistent manner which characterizes all factions of hypocritical Christianity

    http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2012/11/israeli-settler-rabbi-praises-islamic-takeover-of-europe-123.html

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  75. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Fox News, Alex Jones, Prison Planet etc. ??

    or the….

    The Jerusalem Post

    Syria, Israel’s northern neighbor, is becoming a destination for jihadists from all over the world; Who is to blame? President Barack Obama.

    This is Barack Obama’s doing. He has supported every single transition in the Middle East from secular Arab state to brutal Sharia thugocracy

    http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/The-Syria-mess-is-Obamas-doing-335069

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  76. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    Ryder out for 20.. off about 1 delivery.

    Has he been told to just go apeshit? If he gets a huge score every 5 games we are happy?

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  77. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Wow the Jew haters are out in force today :)

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  78. nickb (3,687 comments) says:

    Agreed dime…he could exercise a modicum of shot selection….seems to be going for every ball. People crucified McCullum for similar when he opened

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  79. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    dime, their spinners are harder to score of. Make hay while the sun shines.

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  80. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Kea, no one is responsible for how Arabs vote other than themselves.

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  81. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    And the same people who complain that Arabs vote for Moslems when they have democracy were also those who once claimed that Israel was the only democracy in the ME and this is why the West must support it.

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  82. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    .Kea,
    its worth noting a thing or two about the contributor Pamela Geller,
    In the first instance its an opinion piece that is , of course, permitted in the ME’s only viable democracy.
    Next she is jewish and decidedly pro Israeli and anti what she terms ” political” Islam ,
    But its her pro Israel views that will interest you,

    “She encouraged Israel to “stand loud and proud. Give up nothing. Turn over not a pebble. For every rocket fired, drop a MOAB. Take back Gaza. Secure Judea and Samaria. Stop buying Haaretz. Throw leftists bums out.”[32] She is an ardent Zionist.[. She regards the much of the Israeli media as “Jewicidal” and the kibbutz movement as a failed idea and a variety of slavery.”

    She also happens to be again, of course, severely anti Obama and pro right Republican and Libertarian to boot.She ignores the fact of the Obama administrations e.g Drone attacks in the Yemen and Pakistan which she no doubt approves of.And I would say support a US invasion and occupation of Syria that Obama us naturally hesitant about ( re Iraq invasion 2003 and the disaster that was )
    Do you.?

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  83. Fletch (6,408 comments) says:

    A supermarket employee fired after eating a cake from the “pig bin” has been awarded $500 but told his dismissal was justified.

    It’s actually criminal the stuff that supermarkets throw out. A friend of mine had an ex-neighbour that kept pigs and he used to bring all sorts of stuff home for his pigs from “pig bins”. Bags of chips, cartons of TipTop ice cream and iceblocks, chocolate biscuits – a lot of the stuff wasn’t even past it’s expiration date. His family used to consume a lot of it themselves.

    You can’t imagine the stuff they throw out that is just wasteful.

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  84. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    The First Domino to Fall: Retail-CRE (Commercial Real Estate)

    Graphs showing fall of commercial real estate and retail

    http://www.maxkeiser.com/2014/01/the-first-domino-to-fall-retail-cre-commercial-real-estate/#fKsZbs5dbpBrmg3s.01

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  85. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    Organic 2013: Big Bad Corporations Buying Good Little Organic Food Companies

    An illustration graph showing big corporations buying out honest small companies to rid competition

    and capitalism

    https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=10152562804108312&set=a.10152562804048312.1073741841.127636853311&type=1&theater

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  86. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    Dime worked for foodtown many many years ago. $4.78 an hour, cant believe i wasnt getting a living wage. i was 16 and living at home.. bastards! i shoulda gone on strike!

    Anyway, we used to throw a shit load of food out. Mark down the bread etc at 7pm. End of the night into the bin.

    We used to steal lots :D

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  87. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    Kane Williamson is starting to build a decent ODI record.

    50 ODI’s, averging 36, 3 100’s, 7 50’s
    strike rate of 77.

    its good to see.

    not long til both test & odi averages are above 40 me thinks

    Compared to the new breed of aussies, Kane has a better record.

    Warner – 42 ODI’s, averaging 32, 2 100’s, 8 50’s and a strike rate of 82… not much difference in strike rate to Kane

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  88. Gosman (324 comments) says:

    Rebooting the economy to remove crony capitalism.

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/01/rebooting-capitalism.html

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  89. nickb (3,687 comments) says:

    dime – yup.

    Anchoring the ship again today… I have probably jinxed him now

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  90. nickb (3,687 comments) says:

    Who’s the funny guy from GD yesterday who just jinxed KW for life on cricinfo with this comment?

    Bogan in Melbou: “The more I watch Williamson the more he reminds me of former ND and NZ star Shane Thomson. I remember Thomson played a gem of an innings in Napier against India back in 1994. Hopefully Williamson can kick on with the bat and throw down some uesful off-spin tonight similar to what Thomson use to do.”

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  91. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    stephieboy, oh so Jews and Rabbis who don’t agree with you should not be listened to and attempts made to discredit them ?

    While to be critical of Jews you do agree with is racist anti semetic and makes me a nazi ?

    What a muppet. Just look at yourself and your double standards. LOL :)

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  92. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Kea, Jews don’t agree with each other. The religious despise each other, Ultra Orthodox other factions and all other Jews, Neturai Karta all other Jews, Orthodox the non conformist. As for their opinion of secular Jews … and secular Jews range from hard-line Zionists who despise other Jews for not living in Israel and hard-line Zionists who would rather live in the West to assimilationist Jews who live in Israel and oppose Zionism and assimilationist Jews who live in the world and reject Zionism.

    No one can be pro Jewish without excluding a lot of other Jews in factions opposed to the Jewish side one is on.

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  93. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    Kea (9,698 comments) says:
    January 22nd, 2014 at 4:22 pm

    Just address the issues I raised about Pamela Gellar and her credibility given her xenophobic pro Zionist views.
    Your entitled to your anti Israeli views just as Geller is entitled to her pro Israeli views .
    Mine also but not nearly as xenophobic and militant as Pam’s.
    Its absolutely untruthful that Obama has aspirations to invade and conquer Syria egged on by Israel.Nor is he backed or in the pay of the Islamic Brotherhood, Geller’s views notwithstanding .!

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  94. Longknives (4,764 comments) says:

    I can’t wait until Jews, Muslims and Christians “Unite as one”!!

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  95. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    SPC , I agree.

    stephieboy, WTF ! are you on about ?

    You have no idea what you are talking about and are still telling lies ? I did not say Obama was in the pay of the Muslim brotherhood. He is sponsoring them to the tune of 100’s of millions.

    {remember to google first fuckwit}

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  96. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Herald at 4.45pm.

    New Zealand v India

    Date:22 January 2014Match:2nd ODIVenue:Seddon Park, HamiltonStart time:13:00Umpires:Christopher Gaffaney / Rodney TuckerToss:India won the toss and elected to bowl.

    Play due to restart at 4am — Rain stopped play

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  97. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Must suck to be a cow cockie who arranged temp staff for the afternoon so they could watch the cricket.

    Oh wait the scheduled time for a return to play is now unstated … .

    Would have been the earliest game in history at 4am.

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  98. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    Err sorry old boy and have taken aboard your suggestion and this is what I have come up with,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood_conspiracy_theories

    The usual players it seems , namely far right Republican nut jobs like Michelle Bachmann that you apparently consort with.

    Here as well,

    http://www.salon.com/2013/08/23/conspiracy_theory_links_obama_the_irs_and_the_muslim_brotherhood/

    And the frutloop you really are,

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/10/chart-obama-conspiracy-theories

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  99. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    What does a cow cockie do during a drought, buys tickets to the most expensive live sporting or music event played outdoors available locally.

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  100. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    A peace conference is begun in Europe re Syria.

    The only topic that should be on the table is humanitarian relief to civilians and cease-fires to enable it.

    That involves the agreement of the parties present and presenting the deal to those of the opposition not there to take it or leave it. With the possibility of international action against groups opposing the cease-fire arrangements – such as banning money and supply of arms to the groups concerned.

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  101. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    stephieboy, do you think people are stupid ? In your defense of Obama and Jews you lie about what I have said, when a quick check shows I did not say it, and deny widely reported facts from official press releases, as a quick google check reveals. I guess you just say it anyway and hope like hell no one bothers to check ?

    What is the barrier to you telling the truth buddy ? Here are the very first hits of my 2 second google search, from msm.

    “The CIA has started delivering weapons to rebels in Syria, making good on a pledge made months ago”.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-begins-weapons-delivery-to-syrian-rebels/2013/09/11/9fcf2ed8-1b0c-11e3-a628-7e6dde8f889d_story.html

    “U.S. providing Syrian rebels $123 million more in aid”
    http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/us-syrian-rebels-aid-90375.html

    “Obama Steps Up Military Aid To Syrian Rebels”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/14/obama-syria_n_3441251.html

    “Obama plans rebel aid with Syria strikes, senators say

    (CNN) — U.S. plans for strikes against Syria may be coupled with increased support for rebel forces in that country’s civil war, two leading Republican senators said after meeting with President Barack Obama on Monday.”

    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/02/world/meast/syria-civil-war/

    “Obama to Increase “Scope and Scale” of Aid to Syrian Rebels”

    http://www.ipsnews.net/2013/06/obama-to-increase-scope-and-scale-of-aid-to-syrian-rebels/

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  102. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Obama has form for this. He supported the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

    What followed was Sharia law with persecution and deaths of Jews, Christians and atheists. The moderate people of Egypt were so appalled by this they rose up and overthrew the Obama puppet. Obama backed them [Muslim Brotherhood] with millions of dollars and military aid.

    Various radical Islamic groups are active in Syria and are killing Christians and others. They are imported Jihadists, though they do use Syrian people to achieve their goals. It is not an uprising of Syrians. It is not to say they all support Assad, but they did not ask for civil war. Obama wants an excuse to take out key military installations.

    Why ? Is Obama pro-Muslim ? I say no.
    The only country benefiting from a week majority Muslim country is Israel. Those clever Jews are letting radical Islam destroy itself and send the strong Muslim countries back to the stone age. And it is working, the clever buggers.

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  103. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    Kea
    This is all very far short of the Obama administration under the instructions of Israel going in boots and all invading, conquering and annexing Syra.
    I take its OK for you that Shia mercenaries from Lebanon and Iran can go in and assist Assad with impunity ?. Not forgetting the significant military aid he receives from Iran and Russia,?
    BTW, thoughts on Hamas and their support for Al Queada Jihaddists
    And your links are pretty old hat.
    Timeline for the big invasion.??

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  104. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    Kea re Obama and the Muslim Brotherhood etc.

    Whats missing is the facts and evidence that Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood were Obama’s puppet.
    Period.!
    Military aid .?? Ever since the fall of the Soviet Union the US and others have supplied Egypt with Military aid.
    Fact.!
    Its all the same far right Republican and Tea party garbage about the Benghazi conspiracy.
    Countdown for the big Obama invasion of Syria.??
    Yes.??

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  105. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    How all those millions of bankrupt American tax payer dollars are being spent by the violent black warlord:

    Syria rebels ‘beheaded a Christian and fed him to the dogs’ as fears grow over Islamist atrocities

    Sister Agnes-Mariam de la Croix said: ‘His only crime was his brother criticised the rebels, accused them of acting like bandits, which is what they are.’

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2255103/Syria-rebels-beheaded-Christian-fed-dogs-fears-grow-Islamist-atrocities.html#ixzz2r6HjYCTT
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2255103/Syria-rebels-beheaded-Christian-fed-dogs-fears-grow-Islamist-atrocities.html#ixzz2r6HR12BA
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

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  106. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Kea, Obama supported democracy in Egypt, the Egyptians voted in the MB.

    The MB did not impose Sharia law in Egypt, nor was there any increase in persecution of Jews, Christians or atheists. However they did lose some public support because they were seen as moving towards establishing their power within the state not just as a party seeking a term in office.

    Obama questioned the removal of an elected government by the military (a military whose leadership is as close to the West as the IDF) and called for a quick return to democracy – he could do nothing less without being seen as supportive of a Sisi regime era replacing the Mubarak one.

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  107. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    stephieboy, so Israeli news papers and CNN are all in on this “far right” conspiracy, along with Obama’s press office ?

    1. Where did I say Obama wanted to “invade and conquer” Syria ?

    2. Never heard of “Benghazi”. Is it nice there ?

    3. So what if Iran and Russia give military aid to Syria. Does Israel get military aid ? [hint: Yes more than any country in history, not that it has to fight it's own wars, America, Uk and Nato do their dirty work]

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  108. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    This is utterly disgusting . Est 11,00 civilians murdered by Assad,,

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/01/report-syria-tortured-executed-11000-20141211307452644.html

    Where are the anti Obama and servile pro Assad apologists .??

    Kea you have implied that Obama and the US are both nefarious and in league with Israel and the Jews to destabilize and overthrow the Assad regime.
    Or do you retract that.?
    Do you object to US militaty aid to the Syrian opposition..?
    Yes or no

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  109. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Kea, Obama supported democracy in Egypt, the Egyptians voted in the MB.

    The MB did not impose Sharia law in Egypt, nor was there any increase in persecution of Jews, Christians or atheists.

    Christians come under attack in Egypt.

    It has been reported that since the start of the military crackdown in Egypt up to 58 Christian churches have been damaged or destroyed by Islamists…Some observers said Christians were uncomfortable with the politicised Islam that was emerging under Morsi and his Muslim Brotherhood party… Islamists had been accusing Christians of being the predominant force behind the protests against Morsi,

    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/08/20/christians-come-under-attack-in-egypt/

    Islamic Caliphate? Growing Persecution of Coptic Christians Under Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood

    http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=49262

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  110. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Last Jews in Egypt Support Fight Against Muslim Brotherhood Terror

    Not that it means much, considering that after all the persecution, the Jewish community in Egypt is down to about 14 people from 75,000.

    Under Morsi, the last synagogue in Egypt was effectively shut down.

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/last-jews-in-egypt-support-fight-against-muslim-brotherhood-terror/

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  111. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Kea, Israel has never had an ally in war time. It has fought all its wars alone. Unlike those who it has been fighting.

    Despite being attacked it has never been offered the same collective security protection as provided by the UN to such nations as Kuwait.

    In lieu of this collective security from the UN the US a nation on the UNSC provides with some military aid (as much to sell weapons it’s weapons to Israel as to help) as France used to do (French weapons sales).

    You don’t believe in Sky fairies but you believe that Israel decides whether Kuwait is liberated, Iraq is invaded and occupied or whether the US has a pro Arab spring policy. A clue collective security, the Americans wanted regime change in Iraq because they wanted Iraq oil onto the world market to lower the price and they realised that supporting dictatorships in the ME was not being true to their own values.

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  112. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Do you object to US militaty aid to the Syrian opposition..?

    YES

    The fake outrage is hilarious. The radical jihadists (Obama supports) started this and are doing most of the killing. How would you feel if the jihadists came to nz and aligned themselves with radical Maori seperatists ?. Then Obama sent millions in aid and military assistance to them as the country was destroyed. ?

    Just look at Obamas other projects in the Arab world. Every single one of them is worse off.

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  113. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Kea, Christians have been attacked in Egypt before under the military regimes. And paranoia about what Moslem regimes might do does exist in the Vatican, so you now rely on believers in the Sky Fairies for backing on your view of the world’s events. A group that has been trying to impose Catholic Church morality in our public law.

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  114. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    “Kea, Israel has never had an ally in war time”

    LOL :)

    Great news SPC. I guess the USA can stop ALL that aid as of right now !

    They can withdraw all the troops and go home. It won’t bother Israel at all, (if what you say is true.)

    I won’t bore readers with anymore links, I guess those who want to can google the truth easily enough. SPC don’t go down the path of stephieboy, you are better than that.

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  115. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Oh maybe just one link :) Note the source SPC. Please stop the lies.

    National Jewish Democratic Council

    Obama Requests Largest Amount of Military Aid to Israel Ever

    Underscoring his commitment to the U.S.-Israel relationship, President Barack Obama requested a record $3.1 billion in military assistance to Israel for the 2013 fiscal year. The requested amount is not just the largest assistance request for Israel ever, it is the largest foreign assistance request ever in U.S. history.

    http://www.njdc.org/blog/post/israelaid021412

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  116. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    And noting that churches have come under attack AFTER the removal of the Morsi regime is not evidence that the Morsi regime persecuted Christians.

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  117. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Kea,

    1. the USA has not send its military to defend the borders of Israel in any war they have fought.
    2. providing a nation with finance to buy its weapons is a hand out to the weapons manufacturer so the IDF buys American is barely aid to Israel, it is certainly not the behaviour of an ally that sends its forces to fight with Israel in wartime. Israel buys weapons on the world market because only it’s soldiers fight its battles.
    3. the link between American presence in the ME for world market oil reasons and alliance with Israel is all in your mind.
    4. actual allies of the USA barely need to have defence forces of their own.

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  118. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    SPC, I can believe one of two things:

    1. Christians, Muslims, Jews and Atheists have all banded together with right and left wing media in a global conspiracy with the sole purpose of making Obama look bad because he is half black.

    2. You are wrong.

    3. You want Obama to be something he is not because of his skin colour.

    SPC, we all hoped Obama signaled a new and better age for America. Especially in foreign policy. But face it, he is a disaster. I could spend all night posting scathing articles about him from former supporters. Get over his skin colour and face facts.

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  119. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    3. the link between American presence in the ME for world market oil reasons and alliance with Israel is all in your mind.

    SPC, Please cut and paste where I made those claims regarding “oil” or even mentioned “oil”

    4. actual allies of the USA barely need to have defence forces of their own.

    So the USA is NOT and ally of Israel ! You idiot. Read the links above.

    On a serious note… why the lies ? What is it you think you are defending or hiding ? I am curious, enlighten me ?

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  120. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Kea, why do you presume that others disagree with you in matters of politics because of the skin colour of some public figure?

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  121. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    How to expand Israel’s pool of allies

    Elkin is correct that no other country can replace America as Israel’s chief ally,

    http://www.jpost.com/Experts/How-to-expand-Israels-pool-of-allies-332952

    [Note SPC; If you disagree please write to: The Jerusalem Post, with the bad news]

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  122. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Kea, there is no partisanship required as a motive to refute your bs.

    The real question is why, despite no evidence for it existing, you believe some mythical Israel USA security alliance exists – is this your Sky Fairy?

    Why call those exposing your Sky Fairy’s lack of existence a liar?

    I note that on some world forums people like making a pun of the name Israel by using the term liars, guess which ones they are and they are all anti-American.

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  123. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    SPC, happy to answer all your questions, but first you need to answer a few of mine.

    Now you have joined steph in telling lies and attributing views to me that I neither hold nor have I expressed. So lets deal with that first as it is hard to have a decent debate with you telling lies.

    Where did I mention all that stuff about oil that you claimed I had said ?

    Or will you admit you made that up (lied) in order to make me appear extreme in order to discredit me (strawman) ? It is like Steph claiming my sources are Stormfront and Alex Jones, then I give him links to Jewish news sources in Israel. Cut the crap you are making a fool of yourself.

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  124. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Kea, Israel has no chief ally.

    That some people imagine that Israel has a US ally, does not change the lack of reality of that “Sky Fairy”.

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  125. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Kea, “Where did I mention all that stuff about oil that you claimed I had said?”

    reread what I wrote and to what it was in response to. And correctly this time ….

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  126. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    mythical Israel USA security alliance

    SPC I expected better from you. What the fuck is wrong with you ?

    “mythical Israel USA security alliance ” FFS !

    ================================================================

    Obama Requests Largest Amount of Military Aid to Israel Ever

    Underscoring his commitment to the U.S.-Israel relationship, President Barack Obama requested a record $3.1 billion in military assistance to Israel for the 2013 fiscal year. The requested amount is not just the largest assistance request for Israel ever, it is the largest foreign assistance request ever in U.S. history.

    http://www.njdc.org/blog/post/israelaid021412

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  127. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Kea, “Where did I mention all that stuff about oil that you claimed I had said?”

    reread what I wrote. And correctly this time ….

    “3. the link between American presence in the ME for world market oil reasons and alliance with Israel is all in your mind.

    LOL :) :)

    I get it. You are “trolling”. You had me going there for a moment SPC !

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  128. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Kea, do you know what a security alliance is?

    It is a formal agreement to mutual defence if either is attacked. Israel has never had an ally in wartime. So it must have had no allies at the time of each war that it fought.

    We in New Zealand have barely had a military defence capacity because of alliance with the UK or the USA. Now we hide behind the USA – Oz defence pact despite no longer being part of it.

    The north has NATO, Israel has no security alliance with anyone.

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  129. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Kea, the Americans love money more than Israel (more than poor fellow Americans). Their presence in the ME would exist for oil reasons whether Israel existed or not.

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  130. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    SPC, Haiti would be a rich and powerful country, with a kick arse military, if it had even half the aid Israel gets. It would be impossible to fail.

    To suggest Israel is not supported by the USA marks you as an idiot. A willful idiot as I provided you links from Israeli sources to demonstrate it. Though it beggers belief you would need proof in the first place.

    Foreign powers created, built, and maintain the religious state of Israel. But it is never enough and the Zionist are baying for more blood. They demand Iran be the next place the Westerners shed their blood and spend trillions killing to wipe out Muslims.

    Most Jews object to this and most Israelis reject the religious nonsense. You religious nuts are a violent relic of the dark ages.

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  131. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Kea, you do not understand the US Congress.

    There is an alliance of military industrial complex states where weapons are manufactured (pork barrel). Their alliance is with the war hawks and the pro Israeli faction (Jews and fundamentalists both) in the financing of supply of weapons to Israel.

    Israel would otherwise buy on the world market from competitors of the Americans (they offer deals too) such as the French and British – this is an anti-competition play as purchase of British and French weapons, if used and improved by the IDF, would encourage more sales of their weapons on the world market.

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  132. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    SPC, when is God/Yahweh going to take you lot up into the sky and leave the rest of us in peace ?

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  133. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Kea, why do you get so emotional when debating this?

    First you claim that the American actions in the ME are on behalf of Israel – I do not agree. Now you say most Jews and most Israelis oppose some religious nonsense (which exactly). You refer to me as one of the religious nuts who are a relic of the dark ages – really?

    It’s interesting that you think the race of Obama, pro Israeli sentiment or some religious reason is why people don’t agree with you – it’s just that you are sometimes wrong and don’t know when – probably because so much is based on belief and not on fact.

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  134. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Kea, maybe you just a tribalist, every issue is one anyone disagreeing must be placed into categories to be so attacked/labelled. No wonder people presume you are a troll trying to provoke people.

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  135. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    SPC, if you really believed the brain farts you have released this evening you would not have resorted to lies and strawmen. Personal attacks on my credibility in no way relate to the supporting linked articles I provided you with. All were from msm and many from Israeli news sources.

    If you disagree, then direct your fake outrage at them, not poor wee Kea :)

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  136. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    The Jew says, “The Christians & Muslims are wrong!”

    The Muslim says, “The Jews & Christians are wrong!”

    The Christian says, “The Muslims & Jews are wrong!”

    The Atheist says, “You’re all spot on…..”

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  137. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    nasska, when are we going to get a new-ager wading in on these debates ? I can not stand them and I might even find some common ground with my god bothering stone throwing Christian mates ;)

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  138. Rowan (2,409 comments) says:

    Kea
    You sound like Cartman in this episode. Yet you somehow suggest you are the ‘abused’ one

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  139. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Rowan, how was your day ? Stone any rape victims or homos as god demands ? :)

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  140. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    A New Ager would be something novel Kea…..as you suggest it might even unite some of the factions.

    Since blind belief in any mythical beings has never been my thing I don’t expect that it will affect me greatly either way.

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  141. Rowan (2,409 comments) says:

    Fine thanks troll.
    And why would I do something as stupid as that?

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  142. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    nasska, they are the most smug and irritating of all. But at least they don’t kill people and are too lazy to do much of anything really.

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  143. Harriet (4,975 comments) says:

    At the end of WW2 the Israelies had a place to live, the natural consequence of going about building that nation where they could live could be seen as nation building or nationalism. The likes of East Timor is a current matter.Sort of.

    At the same time as Israel was doing this, Europe did the exact opposite, in that they de-nationalised all of Europe in the hope that they could all live together better. Israel has been constantly at war for over 60yrs now – while war between Europeans hasn’t happened in that time.

    So young Europeans today, on a liftime diet of de-nationalism, now see Israel as a ‘nationalist agressor’ a ‘keeper of borders’ as opposed to that of the borderless Europe. Young European people have seen that taking down borders works –eventually — and they then expect that the ‘democratic’ Israelies should be doing it also.

    And that is why lots of young Europeans today are influenced by the current ‘new speak’ anti-semitism – they are easy targets.

    As much as the poor young Austrians were for Hitler when he started out.

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  144. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    And why would I do something as stupid as that?

    You already did something as stupid as that when you pretended the violent mythological desert cult was real, rather than grow up and deal with your own mortality.

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  145. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    nasska, and the deist notes that God is not a creation of Jews, Christians and Moslems and thus their gods are Sky Fairy’s, so agrees with the atheist. But also notes that ignorance of God is shared by deists, atheists, agnostics, Jews, Christians and Moslems.

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  146. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Harriet, the Jews did not create Israel. The religious fantasy land was created by Western nations and handed to them on a plater

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  147. All_on_Red (1,584 comments) says:

    “Underscoring his commitment to the U.S.-Israel relationship, President Barack Obama requested a record $3.1 billion in military assistance to Israel for the 2013 fiscal year. ”

    Cool. What did they get? Some F 22s would do the job on Iran

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  148. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    It’s a mixed up world we live in SPC. :)

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  149. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Cool. What did they get? Some F 22s nukes would do the job on Iran Israel.

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  150. Rowan (2,409 comments) says:

    Kea, I have never bible bashed any religous views on you or anyone on KB, why do you feel the need to try and force your views on us. We all have freedom of choice when it comes to religion so your hate columns are completely unneccesary. Have you ever actually converted anyone to atheism who was previously a believer?

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  151. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Rowan , you are a two face hypocrite, a liar and a gutless coward.

    You say nothing about the daily religious hate pieces directed at Muslims. You lie about what I have said and lie to support your lies.

    Then you have the cheek to demand others treat you with respect. You are not worthy of respect on this topic.

    But to answer your question: Why ? Well it is because I care enough to speak out. I do not care what theists believe, what concerns me is what they are doing in the world today. This is why I will fight your destructive ignorance to my dying breath arsehole.

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  152. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Harriet, it is an irony that Jewish calls for a national homeland of their own was met by the British and French looking to carve up the Ottoman empire. It was however in accord with the trend of European nationalism – break up of Austrian and Russian empire in Europe.

    Greater still that by the time Israel was finally established, Europe was beginning its move to unity.

    Once Jews were disparaged as a foreign people in Europe because they had no homeland of their own, a new Europe home to more and more foreign peoples now looks down on nationalism of any national homeland, whether in Europe or abroad in Israel.

    Yet, witnessing Islamist parties trying to govern nations in the ME, there is a growing fear of a caliphate movement and thus an emerging preference once again for nationalism – at least in the ME. And maybe Scotland and Catalonia albeit within the EU.

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  153. Rowan (2,409 comments) says:

    Look in the mirror Kea
    You are just a arrogant troll, and insecure enough to try and impose your views on others.
    You are scum.
    Now whats the bet you will start crying and claim abuse, go tell your mummy on me and get over yourself.

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  154. MH (762 comments) says:

    Henry Ford said he knew who started the modern era of conflict in the ME.And don’t forget the poor pommy Tommy sods who were killed in the area after WWII,having liberated the camps they got shot for their troubles.

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  155. Harriet (4,975 comments) says:

    Kea#

    Condemming Christians for the acts of Muslims is like condemming the All Blacks for the acts of Mike Tyson. Both are athletes. That’s all.

    You’re grouping people exactly like the left does; where any negative action by just one person from an opposing viewpoint is then parlayed onto all others[who may actually share differing viewpoints] – so that all can be condemmed.

    It’s called ———— being fucken pathetic. :cool:

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  156. Tauhei Notts (1,724 comments) says:

    Rowan,
    You are unfair to make those comments about Kea. Kea has been
    in a debate with a phuckwit who keeps repeating that the USA is not an ally of Israel.
    I think it is the same person who keeps repeating how honest Winston Peters is.

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  157. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Because Israel and the USA have no security alliance.

    An ally is a country one has a security alliance with.

    We have been informed for years in our media that New Zealand is just a friend of the USA because we have no such security alliance.

    Same person who … really, now you are just making stuff up.

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  158. Nostalgia-NZ (5,220 comments) says:

    ‘This is why I will fight your destructive ignorance to my dying breath arsehole.’

    An interesting sentence, is the refugee from a bird bath likening him/herself to a ‘dying breath arsehole?’ If so, it’s a well constructed thought. But I prefer the cricket.

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  159. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    The first Roy Morgan poll for 2014.

    National Party (43.5%, down 1.5%)
    Maori Party 2% (up 0.5%)
    United Future 0.5% (up 0.5%)
    ACT NZ 0% (unchanged).

    Labour Party 33.5% (up 3%)
    Greens 12.5% (down 2%)
    New Zealand First 4% (down 1%)
    Mana Party 0.5% (down 0.5%)

    Conservative Party of NZ 2.5% (up 0.5%)
    Others 1% (up 0.5%).

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  160. Harriet (4,975 comments) says:

    “…..Conservative Party of NZ 2.5% (up 0.5%)…”

    and with 9 whole months to go!

    The Conservatives are the natural counter balance to the Greens wide spread economicly ruining policies; pro death and low birthrate policies, pro drug and pro sexual disease policies, money for nothing policies.

    Labour will be put in the position by the Conservatives to abandon the Greens or abandon their Christian voting base.

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  161. Nostalgia-NZ (5,220 comments) says:

    Pete George, I’ve been wondering about the seemingly languishing of the Maori Party. How does their increase compare with recent polls? Clearly Labour want that vote back. Are we seeing the results of work done behind the scenes by both parties showing some early favour to the MP? It’s a critical vote that seems to have been much overlooked recently but which was somewhat a silver thread in the last election.

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  162. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    Up until now the Maori Party party vote hasn’t mattered. They have got all their seats from electorates and got a low party vote giving seat overhangs – more seats than their party vote.

    2005 party vote 2.12% for 3 list seats but they got 4 electorate seats.
    2008 party vote 2.39% but they got 5 electorate seats.
    2011 party vote 1.43% but they got 3 electorate seats.

    Roy Morgan polls since the 2011 election have been in the 0.5%- 3.5%, most commonly 1.5%-2.0% which is good for two to three list seats.

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  163. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Look in the mirror Kea

    You are just a arrogant troll, and insecure enough to try and impose your views on others.
    You are scum.

    Ohhhh the irony, it burns !!! :)

    How about we all just keep our views to ourselves then on KB ? Surely that will make KB a more civilised and interesting place for everyone. I mean people don’t come here expecting the free exchange of differing ideas, now do they ?

    I have previously offered to not mention religion, first, but the vile nasty Christians can not help but pour hate on someone. However I am seldom the first to raise the topic and usually do so in response to an anti Muslim piece. Now I know that gets Christians off almost as much as little boys do, but I remember the target has historically been Jews. They remember that too. Same behaviour and justifications, just another target.

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  164. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    Colin Craig has had far more media coverage than any other party and has been pushing smacking as a priority policy. 2.5% is close to their best of 3% and have hit 2.5 twice before and twelve times on 2%. Conservatives will find it difficult getting much more as the political year gets very competitive.

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  165. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    Now there is a deep truth in this comment by SPC thats worth thinking about,

    3. the link between American presence in the ME for world market oil reasons and alliance with Israel is all in your mind.

    Oil is used to explain everything about US policy in the Middle East and Israel.Things are rather more complex than that. Take the war In Iraq 2003.The real motive we are told was Oil and that brings in Jewish Finance and other machinations of Exxon and other oil Companies. Not to forget Israel and the jews. Things are never that simple and the consequences of the Iraq war bare that out.
    The US did not do very well in that regard leaving empty handed.The new regime installed farmed out most oil concessions and ongoing exploration licenses to Chinese State Oil companies.Also the Iraq regime has allied itself to Assad and Shias.
    This fact also witnessed a measured decline of Oil imports from the ME by the US to about 14 %. It now sources most of its oil from the Western Hemisphere ( Mexico, Canada, Venezuela, Brazil Canada as well as local production) and Nigeria.)
    Thus issues like Oil and Geopolitics especially in the Middle East cannot be subjected to simplistic formulations as Conspiracy theorists ,anti Obamas and GWBs for that matter would like to suggest.

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  166. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    From iPredict’s latest report:

    … the chances of a National prime minister after this year’s general election has improved to 58.3%, from 53.3%

    …the likelihood of a Labour prime minister has dropped to 41.7% probability, from 45.1%

    NZ First is not expected back in Parliament, while Act is only a 50% chance of winning the pivotal Epsom seat

    Mana and UnitedFuture have an 80.2% probability of winning at least one seat, followed by the Conservatives (64.6%) and the Maori Party (61.5%).

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/keys-re-election-chances-improve-inflation-surprise-wont-sway-rbnz-ipredict-dw-15088

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  167. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    stephieboy, I said it because I think it was about oil and not Israel. Not for the oil companies so much but to have the Iraqi oil back on the market. The longstanding oil embargo was against the regime, but it was bad for the global economy so remove the regime and the oil is back on the market (what oil companies invest their money and pump out the oil is not that important except to the oil companies).

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  168. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    stephieboy is now into “deep truth” from SPC LOL :)

    The same SPC who reckons Israel and the US have nothing to do with each other and rejects every word I have posted from educated Jews and attacks me for what they said.

    Deeeeeep Truth FFS !

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  169. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Kea, you demonstrate that anyone can invent up a make belief version of the world and no religion is required for this.

    And that you will resort to personal attacks on those who disagree. Much like those of religion have done and some still do.

    Nice mirror imaging.

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  170. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    the oil is back on the market

    SPC, oil is only worth something when you sell it DOH ! And the only way to get top dollar is put it on the open market.

    Nope that is not reason.

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  171. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    SPC, you are living proof of how religion fucks the brain. This is why I am so against it. The insane statements you have made regarding US Israel relations defy belief. Even when I cluttered the thread with links to US statements and Israeli news sources. All which can be readily accessed by anyone.

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  172. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Aside from the US (second biggest Jewish country) doing Israels bidding, there is indeed another reason for the US suddenly being concerned about “human rights” in the Muslim world.

    All countries that get ideas about trading oil in currencies other that the US dollar are suddenly found to have all manner of human rights deficiencies, requiring bombs, drones and mass murder to remedy.

    Just as long as Israel is ok with it.

    ================================

    The Real But Unspoken
    Reasons For The Iraq War

    Summary

    Although completely suppressed in the U.S. media, the answer to the Iraq enigma is simple yet shocking – it an an oil CURRENCY war. The Real Reason for this upcoming war is this administration’s goal of preventing further OPEC momentum towards the euro as an oil transaction currency standard. However, in order to pre-empt OPEC, they need to gain geo-strategic control of Iraq along with its 2nd largest proven oil reserves. This lengthy essay will discuss the macroeconomics of the “petro-dollar” and the unpublicized but real threat to U.S. economic hegemony from the euro as an alternative oil transaction currency.

    http://www.rense.com/general34/realre.htm

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  173. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    America’s true reason for intervention, and missile attacks against Libya has become very clear today with a sudden creation by the rebels of a new central bank on March 29th.

    The rebels in Libya are in the middle of a life or death civil war and Moammar Gadhafi is still in power and yet somehow the Libyan rebels have had enough time to establish a new Central Bank of Libya and form a new national oil company.

    Six months before the US moved into Iraq to take down Saddam Hussein, the oil nation had made the move to accept Euro’s instead of dollars for oil, and this became a threat to the global dominance of the dollar as the reserve currency, and its dominion as the petrodollar.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/america-s-true-reason-for-attacking-libya-becomes-clear-with-new-central-bank

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  174. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Kea, the American government is pro the stock market, more oil available to the market means more confidence/stability and rising stocks – and their low CG Tax rate at 15% means they get growth in their historic savings/wealth. To us they say its pro jobs etc – but much like QE the first objective is to raise the stock market, the economic benefits are trickle down.

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  175. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Kea, sure currency issues have some importance in strategic thinking, but not so much as per Iraq.

    Decisions made there indicate no great concern to control the ownership of the oil or the sale of it – just make it available to the world market by replacing the regime against which there were sanctions.

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  176. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Kea, do you know what I put on my census form – a clue, you do not see it on the census results. I don’t put down no religion, despite not being of any religious group. I will say though that religious groups require some source for their common belief, is there any that is credible?

    But I note that your first reaction to someone standing their ground against you, when you proselytise on an issue on which you have firm convictions, is to presume they are someone to be attacked over their religion. In some debates, it would have been the other’s race, or creed or gender or sexuality or employment caste.

    I just don’t find firm convictions of themselves convincing – not from Zionists, crusaders, jihadists or yourself.

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  177. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Kea, the amount of oil Iraq was selling before the regime change was in controlled low amounts – the currency transactions involved were small and insignificant. And Iraq is a member of OPEC, it was founded in Baghdad.

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  178. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Cool. What did they get? Some F 22s would do the job on Iran.

    Hardly. The F-22 is a lemon, as is the F-35 Joint Strike fighter (which is amusing because the Australians are locked into buying the latter for political reasons). In both cases politics triumphed over good design.

    The F-22 is a bit like the space shuttle. It looks good on paper and is a technical marvel, but it’s basically a death trap. It’s designed to fulfil the Americans’ desired mode of battle, which is to engage the enemy at longer ranges where the enemy cannot shoot back. If they can’t manage that, they’re beat, and there have been persistent rumours of F-22s being detected and royally spanked in training exercises by Eurofighter Typhoons, a cheaper and more manoeuvrable aircraft. When the PAK-FA enters service, the F-22 is a dead duck. Even the Chinese seem to have something better in the pipeline.

    The F-35 is much worse. It’s a flying pig in all but name. You can immediately see what’s wrong with it: the wing area is too small relative to the size and weight of the fuselage: thus it will handle like a pig. This is not an opinion – it’s basic physics. The F-35 is nothing less than an airborne turd.

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  179. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Must suck being in the IDF and have to use second choice aircraft just because the Americans finance it.

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  180. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    SPC, why don’t the IDF just throw rocks at their enemies ?

    It must be terrible for those brave jews to have their main battle tanks attacked by infants throwing pebbles at them.

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