General Debate 27 February 2014

February 27th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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137 Responses to “General Debate 27 February 2014”

  1. Left Right and Centre (2,882 comments) says:

    We have been established for over 44 years and have been pleasing and displeasing customers ever since. We have made money and lost money suffered the effects of Govt control GST + bad payers. We have been cursed and discussed, messed about lied to, robbed & swindled. The only reason we stay in business is to see what happens next.

    – Hand written sign as seen on office window of shop ‘Porirua Cycle & Mower Centre’ in Wellington.

    (’44′ years is printed on a little sticker. It’s the kind of place where you’d find an easy-going dog wandering about and a distinct lack of committee meetings to determine the shop layout etc)

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  2. Bovver (151 comments) says:

    So the spin from the Fabian’s is at full rpm.

    DC trumpets Jim Anderton is back in the Labour fold. Matt is more than happy to work with Jim, but to paraphrase Jim’s response it’s FU fabain’s.

    I wonder how happy the ABC’s are about Matt’s appointment….

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  3. Pete George (23,309 comments) says:

    Matt McCarten’s appointment as David Cunliffe’s chief of staff is a sign of a coming together of Labour and the Mana Movement. Is it just by McCarten shifting from one party to the other? Or has some sort of co-operative deal between the parties been worked out?

    Have Labour done a deal with Mana?

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  4. Pete George (23,309 comments) says:

    Bovver – Cunliffe says he’s spoken to “senior MPs” about Matt McCarten’s appointment and they are all on board.

    Yeah. Nah. There will at least be some very wary MPs in Labour’s caucus.

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  5. Scott Chris (5,974 comments) says:

    Some insignificant dickhead buys some medals and pretends to be a war vet. So Stuff nominates him public enemy number one and publishes a clear photo of him prominently displayed as the lead story on their website.

    With all this talk in recent days of social media bullying it seems mainstream media didn’t want to miss out on the action. The arseholes better hope he doesn’t top himself.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9768473/Idiot-builder-made-fake-war-hero-claim

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  6. RF (1,343 comments) says:

    I hope Cunliffe will get used to the smell of smoke from the BBQs wafting through his caucus.

    What a bloody idiot. Love the attempts by Presland to spin this as a victory for Labour. Yea right !!!

    I know some hard core Labour types who would never vote National but now will hold off voting labour. That’s the center vote that Cunners has lost.

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  7. Elaycee (4,332 comments) says:

    Does anyone else think it possible that Cunliffe had (very) little influence in the selection process and that McCarten was parachuted into the COS role at the insistence of the Union faction within Labour? And against Cunliffe’s wishes?

    When the appointment was announced to the cameras yesterday, it was obvious Cunliffe had swallowed a dead rat when he spoke about McCarten. And McCarten’s own demeanour suggested the feeling was mutual.

    Tick, tick, tick, tick……

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  8. Longknives (4,682 comments) says:

    Scott Chris- The guy was speaking at Schools and Public Forums pretending to be a war hero. That’s pretty twisted behaviour and in my opinion quite worthy of publicity and scorn!
    Are the media in PC little New Zealand not allowed to print anything negative about anyone anymore? Just because one old socialite (who had courted/craved tabloid publicity her whole life)strung herself up?

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  9. Scott Chris (5,974 comments) says:

    Seems Jamie Whyte has made his first major mistake in politics; that of being a principled liberal:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11210507

    Surely he must have seen this trap coming?

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  10. Bovver (151 comments) says:

    But, but according to Matt the chemistry has been extraordinary between him and DC…..does this mean they are heading for an implosion?

    On another point Marcus Lush stating DPF was a far right blogger was good for a laugh.

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  11. Elaycee (4,332 comments) says:

    @Bovver: Clearly Matt has a weird interpretation of the term: ‘extraordinary’…

    The ‘chemistry’ between Cunliffe and McCarten could be likened to what happens when you mix [redacted] with [redacted] – it only takes a very small ‘shake’ and the combo will detonate.

    And it’s only a matter of time…. McCarten won’t be able to keep himself in check.

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  12. Komata (1,142 comments) says:

    Given his background, is it in fact possible that Mr. McCarten may fancy himself as a future leader of the Labour party? Moles come in various shapes, and knowledge of the ‘way things actually work’ could assist in future plans – especially as he does have a reputation as being very ambitious. Being the leader of a major political party (as opposed to the ‘rats and mice’ he is currently involved-with) would definitely seem to be the sort of goal he would be aiming for.

    One wonders…

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  13. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    The further left that Matt takes Labour, then the further left will be the consessions from National to get agreement on policy.

    Matt is right on the money with what he said – ” National is way too pragmatic…” —– just ask any Conservative! :cool:

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  14. Pete George (23,309 comments) says:

    3News understands Tony Ryall told his electorate about retirement plans last night – feels he’s achieved a lot, time to move on.

    That would be a significant loss to National.

    But if it’s true that along with quite a number of other National MP retirements means that if National stays in after this year’s election they will be able to present as a refreshed and different Government.

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  15. flipper (3,834 comments) says:

    When will the MSmedia ask Cunners/McCarten about the UNITE tax bill?

    The misappropriation -THEFT- of PAYE monies is a serious criminal offence……. well, it would be for any small pr large business.
    But ….Heh, it is all rich prick imagination.

    So Cunners makes a cun* of himself yet again. Gooid.

    Can’t wait for the first TV debate on TAX !

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  16. Lindsay Addie (1,168 comments) says:

    More problems for TVNZ, now it is making up fake cyber bullying messages and reading them on air:
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11210480

    FFS John Key why not sell this dog of a company?

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  17. thedavincimode (6,589 comments) says:

    Bovver, that chemistry you refer to is in fact McCarten’s previous description of Viscount Cunners as a lazy narcissistic phoney.

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  18. thedavincimode (6,589 comments) says:

    Lindsay

    TVNZ’s news is phoney so why get upset about the messages?

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  19. Bovver (151 comments) says:

    Tony Ryall has been an outstanding performer for National, the lack of any controversial articles on health in the media and that the opposition has been able to land so little blows on a usually very political area speaks volumes.

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  20. Colville (2,174 comments) says:

    I see the McCarten appointment as a sign that Cun*liffe is lurching further left and will attempt to take on / take out! the gweens.
    I suppose he is of the oppinion that he cannot fight a war with enemy on both sides so will take out the weaker one first.
    So there could be some real fireworks in the upcomming months if DC is trying to shove Wussel back into his gimp box where he belongs.
    Sure sign tho that Labour have , internally anyways, raised the white flag WRT the 14 election as they will turn off vast hordes of centerist voters who either will vote blue or not vote at all.

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  21. Paulus (2,559 comments) says:

    Where did I read this morning – Herald ? that Jim Anderton wants nothing more to do with Labour after the Matty appointment.
    Matty – ex House of Cards)

    Labour – keep on coming – its a great appointment for New Zealand – tough on the Cuntliffe though to be saddled with a new Chief who will tell him what to do.

    Will help Robertson’s cause too to have more shit around.

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  22. peterwn (3,211 comments) says:

    With Matt’s appointment, Labour is either away with the fairies or considers it can bring more of the apathetic potential far left voters on board (it does not particularly matter whether they vote Labour, Greens or Mana).

    The only feasible the latter could be done is to think outside the square with campaigning techniques – that is using all the tricks that protest movements have used. So Matt would identify a few populist points and stir up protests for or against them. He has access to plenty of unemployed, low paid workers and students for this. So what if meetings are disrupted, people arrested or property damaged, or electoral law broken. Matt knows enforcement of electoral law is a joke so it does not matter if the campaign operates in breach of the law. The occupation of 41 Pipitea Street could be a good start.

    They could succeed in making John Key look a total idiot and he could be powerless to do anything about it within the confines of decent campaigning and electoral law. So Stephen Joyce will need to take this into account when mapping out National’s campaign.

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  23. Reid (16,106 comments) says:

    That would be a significant loss to National.

    It would be. It’s hard to believe how health has been kept out of the headlines virtually since he started. It’s become a non-issue and that’s the first and only time since the 1980′s that’s ever happened.

    They could succeed in making John Key look a total idiot and he could be powerless to do anything about it within the confines of decent campaigning and electoral law.

    Liarbore is not fringe, so if they do what you predict peter they’re risking their reputation as a serious player. For that reason I’m not sure I agree but you’re right, Matt has the background to do that if he wanted to.

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  24. Longknives (4,682 comments) says:

    Those pathetic TVNZ reporters who were all crying blue murder about ‘online bullying’ should be made to front up and apologise for such a blatant publicity stunt on TV news tonight.

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  25. Carlos (687 comments) says:

    Would this be an accurate reflection of parties currently in parliament on the political spectrum?

    Extreme left: Mana, Greens, Maori
    Left: Labour, NZ First,
    Centre: United Future, National
    Right: ACT
    Extreme Right: 0

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  26. thedavincimode (6,589 comments) says:

    shove Wussel back into his gimp box

    Thanks for making the connection Colville. Aside from the obvious, there’s been something about him that has been bugging me because I just couldn’t quite put my finger on it. But you’re right and that’s exactly what it was.

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  27. hj (6,719 comments) says:

    Texas Drought and Climate Change

    As they say, Texas is a state where it is impossible to bribe a politician, just so long as you call it a campaign contribution. The home builders hope to profit by persuading politicians to attract or create new (low wage) jobs, and new business investments, which of course would expand the market for new homes. All this while opposing any limits or regulations on growth, and while expecting local taxes on current residents to provide the roads — and now water — needed for development.
    Whenever climate science, environmental considerations, or legal reform get in the way of making money on land development, the Texas bankers, developers, and land speculators know how to play to win. Since the Texas constitution was written mainly by and for the landed gentry of Texas after the Civil War, this legacy means that Texas landowners have “property rights” — meaning the right to develop almost anything in the untaxed, unincorporated suburban areas outside a central city.
    There is the prospect of making billions of dollars from suburban sprawl land development surrounding the major metropolitan areas where most Texans now live. Natural limits to growth? Any limits on land development come as bad news and have always been strongly opposed by the well-organized, well-funded Texas growth lobby. The big money in Texas is largely made through selling and developing raw land for ever-expanding rings of suburban sprawl growth that surround its big metropolitan areas.
    Austin is now in the midst of a highly profitable Austin-area growth boom, Climate change denial prevails through most state agencies (although the state climatologist believes that climate change is real). The politicians who make the rules outrank the scientists no matter how good the science, or how urgent the scientific warnings.
    In Texas, climate science is considered subversive because it tells the politicians stuff they would rather deny. When Gov. Rick Perry was running for president he made his climate change denial very clear. Perry considers global warming a scientific hoax.

    http://www.resilience.org/stories/2014-02-24/can-austin-survive-the-curr

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  28. OneTrack (2,807 comments) says:

    Carlos, you need a hard left category for Labour. National at centre-left.

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  29. Pete George (23,309 comments) says:

    Carlos, whatever it is now (I don’t think Maori are hard left) that may be about to change.

    Cunliffe recently talked up a relationship between Labour and NZ First. He has now cemented a strong connection between Labour and Mana. This may be deliberately designed to shut out the Maori Party and in particular to squeeze the Greens.

    Winston won’t want to work with the Greens, and Labour won’t want Winston to go with National.

    Are Labour lining up a Labour/Mana/NZ First grouping and are the hoping to shut Greens out or at least relegate them to i significant?

    McCarten move a Green squeeze?

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  30. Carlos (687 comments) says:

    @ OneTrack

    Labour are hard to define exactly as they seem to change from hard left to left from week to week depending on who is speaking to the media on their behalf. :)

    I reckon National are doing just enough economically to still be considered centrist. Their social policies seem to be moving left though.

    @ Pete

    I also thought the move left by Labour was to kill the Greens and then go for the win in 2017.

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  31. chuk (37 comments) says:

    Paul Henry’s introduction of McCarten on last night’s programme included a comment referring to the Unite Union owing the IRD money. When McCarten responded the first thing he said was that he wanted to correct Henry on that point. He said the Union did not owe any money to the IRD and that it was in surplus. Sadly, Henry did not pursue the point. Am I right in thinking the IRD debt was not the Union’s but from an associated organisation called Unite Support Services?

    If so, then I hope Henry will make this clear as soon as possible.

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  32. Manolo (13,516 comments) says:

    A crook confesses: http://www.foxnews.com/science/2014/02/26/greenpeace-co-founder-no-scientific-proof-humans-are-dominant-cause-warming/

    A co-founder of Greenpeace told lawmakers there is no evidence man is contributing to climate change, and said he left the group when it became more interested in politics than the environment.

    Patrick Moore, a Canadian ecologist and business consultant who was a member of Greenpeace from 1971-86, told members of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee environmental groups like the one he helped establish use faulty computer models and scare tactics in promoting claims man-made gases are heating up the planet.

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  33. dime (9,662 comments) says:

    Nice knowing you ACT.

    Try not to fuck your sister on the way out

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  34. dime (9,662 comments) says:

    @longknives & bruv

    “The All Blacks have made it into the final six of the Laureus Team award for the third time in four years.”

    You guys must be over the moon :)

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  35. KiwiGreg (3,212 comments) says:

    Oh come on dime. The guy clearly showed a lack of political nous but his point of principal was that the state should not have a role in governing relationships between consenting adults. Naturally the media took it to the extreme and reported the incest angle.

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  36. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Well, even “Gentleman Jim” has hacked a track, McCarten is really stamping his authority on New Labour!
    Has anything been done about removing both Lecher Len and Slobcom? Too much stuffing around with these losers, costing ratepayers and taxpayers both megabucks and sanity.

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  37. Pete George (23,309 comments) says:

    Talking it up.

    No wonder the Nats are worried. And no wonder right-wing zealots on Kiwiblog and elsewhere are staining their underwear in anxiety. They fully understand the implications of Matt’s new role and influence in this year’s election. This is a serious (excuse the cliche) game-changer.

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/02/27/wtf-is-john-key-having-a-melt-down/

    If you over egg things you end up with souffle – full of fuck all.

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  38. Ed Snack (1,794 comments) says:

    Dime, so you are opposed to marriage equality then ? Or was that phrase a flat out lie ?

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  39. Pete George (23,309 comments) says:

    @MatthewHootonNZ

    Attn @JamieWhyteACT, answer to all these is “that’s best left in the undergrad philosophy tutorial room” #nzpol

    http://pragmatistethics.blogspot.co.nz/2010/06/ethical-philosophy-thought-experiments.html?m=1

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  40. Colville (2,174 comments) says:

    And no wonder right-wing zealots on Kiwiblog and elsewhere are staining their underwear

    Yip that is us Kiwibloggers…staining our undies…from pissing ourselves laughing :-)

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  41. Reid (16,106 comments) says:

    This is a serious (excuse the cliche) game-changer.

    It sure is, for them, not for us.

    Matt knows how to talk to the left, but he’s never once demonstrated any inclination whatsoever to talk to the centre, who are very sanguine with the current economic settings.

    As I said yesterday, IMO this is mostly a move to shore up Cunliffe’s caucus support amongst the Sisterhood/Rainbow/ABC. It’s not about putting Matt in charge of the campaign, otherwise they would have given him that.

    I think they think his skills will be very useful in lifting the turnout too and quite frankly that’s where the biggest threat to us lies. Because if it is the case that a large % of the abstainers are comprised of the traditional Labour blue collar which they may well be, then he could get them out and he could get them voting Labour instead of Mana too. The Labour “small business owners with a heart” bloc won’t be recaptured but maybe they have decided they can’t do that while the Sisterhood/Rainbow remain in place, so go for what you can get.

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  42. dime (9,662 comments) says:

    I agree with the guy.

    I’m becoming more libertarian by the day.. but goddam. we are up against a far left media. we live in a left wing country.

    ACT need to play the game to some degree.

    People read headlines. How many read his philosophical reasoning?

    Its not as bad as Goff wanting to make it legal for 12 years to have sex.. but it will be reported more

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  43. Pete George (23,309 comments) says:

    Confirmation that Tony Ryall is retiring at the next election.

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  44. flash2846 (222 comments) says:

    OK for siblings to shag each other????

    Jamie Whyte – For goodness sake “SHUT YOUR FACE!!!!!” You bungling fool!!! Surely you are not quoting this shit to the media intentionally? You bloody idiot!!!

    Pisses me off!!!

    CRAP LIKE THIS COULD WIN THE ELECTION FOR LABOUR/GREENS RETARDS!

    Get some training or just shut the fuck up!!!!.

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  45. Pete George (23,309 comments) says:

    This didn’t help:

    Mr Prebble, a founding member of Act, said he didn’t see Dr Whyte’s comments as a hindrance to his task of building support for the party.

    “Actually in some ways it is useful because it shows Jamie Whyte is not a politician and I don’t think the public want politicians. Our enemies will attempt to distort that but I find the guy refreshing and new and I think the electorate is looking for something that’s fresh and new.

    “He’s somebody who’s very frank and so when he says things he means it. If you’ve got a candidate who happens to have been a philosophy lecturer at Cambridge University you can always ask him ‘gotcha’ questions.”

    Whyte has now conceded he stuffed up.

    ACT leader regrets incest comments

    “I’m the leader of ACT and my opinions are the opinions of the ACT Party now, at least in my public discussions with journalists,” he told NZ Newswire.

    “I was drawn into a very abstract philosophical conversation about the limits of the state and it’s not my job now, I’m now party leader, I’m the leader of ACT, it’s not my job to be a philosophy lecturer anymore.”

    http://www.3news.co.nz/ACT-leader-regrets-incest-comments/tabid/423/articleID/333860/Default.aspx

    The political learning curve can be harsh.

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  46. Ross12 (1,266 comments) says:

    ” “Everyone knows the Genesis sale is going to be a failure, now it turns out John Key knows as well,” said Labour leader David Cunliffe.

    “It’s economic idiocy to sell shares in three power companies in the space of a year.” ”

    We will see who the idiot is before the end of the year. There are many serious financial commentators in the USA who are predicting MAJOR corrections in the USA stock market this year. IF they are correct then we all know who “catches a cold”

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  47. Reid (16,106 comments) says:

    The political learning curve can be harsh.

    Imagine what you’d have said Pete if Craig had said that.

    Not that he would have. I mean, what? You don’t need to be a politician to know “gee: negative reactions, who woulda thunk.”

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  48. Pete George (23,309 comments) says:

    @liamdann

    Philosophical reality: I think therefore I am.

    Political reality: Don’t get your name in the same headline as the word.

    Idealists don’t succeed in politics.

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  49. Pete George (23,309 comments) says:

    Reid: Craig has found the political learning curve can be harsh too – especially if you don’t learn from mistakes and keep saying dopey things.

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  50. Reid (16,106 comments) says:

    Yes, that wasn’t the point I was making Pete.

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  51. Scott Chris (5,974 comments) says:

    Idealists don’t succeed in politics.

    Yeah probably. Mind you, if a person doesn’t ‘get’ what Whyte is saying about personal liberty then they shouldn’t really be voting for ACT. Shame he didn’t stick to his guns despite political expediency dictating otherwise.

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  52. Scott Chris (5,974 comments) says:

    Philosophical reality: I think therefore I am.

    Not really. More accurate to say “I think I think therefore I think I am” imo.

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  53. Reid (16,106 comments) says:

    Shame he didn’t stick to his guns despite political expediency dictating otherwise.

    Somehow I think it’s a brand risk if the party president advocates incest. I don’t know why I think that, I just do.

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  54. Scott Chris (5,974 comments) says:

    Idealists don’t succeed in politics.

    So you’re saying Peter Dunne is not an idealist Pete? :)

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  55. Pete George (23,309 comments) says:

    Far more of a pragmatist who is very experienced at doing what is necessary to achieve something. The key to politics is doing what gets favourable results.

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  56. Left Right and Centre (2,882 comments) says:

    Get some training or just shut the fuck up!!!!

    IHC idiots with multiple usernames should shut the fuck up. That’s you ‘flash2846′. You’re a lightweight little child.

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  57. Scott Chris (5,974 comments) says:

    Somehow I think it’s a brand risk if the party president advocates incest

    He didn’t advocate incest in the same way that, say Judith Collins doesn’t advocate sodomy, even if she tolerates its practice.

    He advocates the idea of personal liberty.

    But you’re not an ACT voter Reid, so I don’t expect you to understand the difference.

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  58. Scott Chris (5,974 comments) says:

    Far more of a pragmatist who is very experienced at doing what is necessary to achieve something.

    What’s the point in doing anything if you’re not aspiring to some ideal?

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  59. Pete George (23,309 comments) says:

    An ideal of achieving as much as you can.

    What is John Key’s ideal? Making New Zealand a better more competitive country?

    Unrealistic ideals or goals aren’t much use, you need to have goals that are potentially achievable.

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  60. iMP (2,333 comments) says:

    GOOGLE GLASS, TECHNOLOGY & the SOCIAL CONTRACT. Turning 50 this year, I consciously dialed back my technological intra-veinous. My internationally-read NZ blog is taking a holiday, I have never committed to Twitter, I visit FB sporadically, and only utilise two email accounts (one for work) and never access the internet by phone, which gets turned off at 10pm. It is very much my view, that technology is well past its usefulness and is actually making life unnecessarily busy and stressful. I also believe we will experience an anti-tech push-back shortly. And perhaps this story below is the beginning of that trend…

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/gadgets/30017829/i-was-attacked-for-wearing-google-glass

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  61. Reid (16,106 comments) says:

    He advocates the idea of personal liberty.

    Actually Scott I myself do and have always understood that, but the general public don’t. While the general public aren’t ACT voters it doesn’t make any sense to make your party look like Kentucky hillbillies which is what the general public are now thinking. Those people who are ACT voters don’t think ACT is like Kentucky hillbillies but those people are now thinking, what a dumb unnecessary move, and ACT voters don’t like dumb unnecessary moves because they’re almost exclusively smarter than your average bear and people like that don’t make dumb unnecessary themselves and don’t normally approve of people who do.

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  62. Manolo (13,516 comments) says:

    Unrealistic ideals or goals aren’t much use, you need to have goals that are potentially achievable.

    Like fantasising about a young Wellington journalist in the vain hope of having a go at her, while leaking state documents left, right, and centre in the process. Ah, the foolish lecherous politician.

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  63. Rightandleft (655 comments) says:

    I wish he had stuck to his guns on the incest issue. It was entirely consistent with the party’s liberal philosophy. The state should not have a role in telling consenting adults who they can and cannot have sex with. It may be disgusting but it isn’t the government’s job to ban it unless it harms other people. The real hypocrites here are the people who pushed for marriage equality for gays on this exact argument but then suddenly act like Whyte has made an outrageous argument.

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  64. Pete George (23,309 comments) says:

    Whyte has made an outrageous argument

    Whyte has made an argument that has been treated as outrageous. What is publicised counts.

    Labour copped a lot of flak for their ‘man ban’ – most people will agree that having a gender balance is a good ideal, but they packaged it poorly and it was repackaged and publicised.

    Appearing to promote incest (he didn’t but that’s how it’s been presented) is not a good look for ACT. If it’s an argument worth having (to ACT) then they need to deal with it, frame it and present it to show clearly what they mean.

    Whyte got sucked in to saying something that in the circumstances bit him on the bum. That’s politics. He has to learn better ways of dealing with potentially controversial topics.

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  65. dime (9,662 comments) says:

    rightandleft – too soon. ACT are a joke at the moment. Its a time to rebuild.

    They need to be smarter.

    Its not like the greens come out and say “yes, we are communists”.

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  66. Pete George (23,309 comments) says:

    I agree with Whyte on this to an extent. Idealistically he state shouldn’t dictate what consenting adults can and can’t do.

    But that can’t be an absolute. With incest there are greater risks when procreation is involved that have to be considered, society has discouraged that for good reasons.

    And there has to be some limits on what consenting adults can do.

    I think most people would frown on consenting adults murdering each other, or one consenting to being killed by the other.

    And most people would probably frown on two consenting adults (related or not) having sex on the middle lane of the motorway during rush hour.

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  67. iMP (2,333 comments) says:

    So groupies in here think ACT is on the brink of a brilliant resurgence.

    First major public announcement by new ACT leader…

    “Jamie Whyte is standing by his comments that incestuous relationships between consenting adults should not be illegal.”

    Bye bye ACT.

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  68. Reid (16,106 comments) says:

    It is very much my view, that technology is well past its usefulness and is actually making life unnecessarily busy and stressful.

    I’m with you in general sentiment iMP but unfortunately I think the ubiquity of technology which I agree is more a bane than a benefit, hasn’t even started rolling yet.

    My younger thirty-something brothers were the first generation to be educated with the internet and mobiles and as my youngest brother has repeatedly said, just because I don’t see the point in being connected 24/7/365 doesn’t mean they don’t. Partly that was the callow youth in him talking but they embrace it with vigour and it means now that you can’t even watch a movie with him without the mobile being consulted every 5 mins and he’s normal for that generation and also for many older, many of them women, who embrace it so readily because they’re genetically wired to be social creatures.

    It’s not healthy, at all, because it changes the human-to-human relationship aspect of life into human-computer-human and naturally companies driven by marketing who see an opportunity to make money in that computer aspect of the intersect are driving it hard and any business who wants to make money will need to adopt to it. And this intersession will increase into every aspect of life until just about everybody are living their lives from a screen in front of them delivering them information and offers.

    The danger I see is that it’s like learning history from watching a documentary rather than reading a book on it. Over time people will hand over more and more of their thinking to the machines. For example Google glass has a biometric facial expression reading app which tells wearers what mood people are in, in a meeting or in a job interview situation. No doubt an app will come along to tell wearers what their facial expressions should be to create a certain impression on someone depending on the expressions shown by the audience. You can see how farcical it becomes. But that will happen, if it’s not already. More and more and more. Not to mention the subliminal ads that will invisibly flash up for ties, dresses and power suits while you’re in the meeting.

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  69. peterwn (3,211 comments) says:

    chuk – Yes ‘United Support Services Ltd’ was liquidated and struck off with $150k owing (most if not all to IRD). Matt was only director and shareholder. See:
    http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/service/services/documents/40EF6CFB9CA0ABC1D6C301C2A720D05F

    This raises the issue in my mind why IRD did not try and hold Matt McCarten personally liable for this debt and mount a prosecution for not paying over PAYE and other deductions. Possibly there was some ‘administration officer’ who vanished at some appropriate time who was set up to take the blame. One could be sneaky and hire people on working holidays for this sort of role knowing they will be gone when the stuff hits the fan.

    Perhaps IRD were not prepared to have a stoush with Matt on Whale’s seventh rule of politics basis. Perhaps they could not get sufficient evidence.

    So it is a pity that Paul Henry did not have a good ‘briefing’ about this tax situation or he could have asked some nasty supplementary questions.

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  70. EAD (821 comments) says:

    Stumbled across a very good article on the Daily Mail about Currency debasement (inflation) and argues that it is the worst crime a government can commit as by corrupting the currency, you will corrupt the country:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1336525/Debasing-currency-causes-havoc-economy-retail-price-inflation-runs-4-5.html

    Excerpts:
    “Now cast your mind back to the crash. Remember why it happened? We were told it happened because everyone was borrowing like crazy and no one was saving. Another sign of the moral decay of modern civilisation, they said. If only people behaved responsibly like they did in the olden days (when we had the gold standard, incidentally).

    Why do you think the citizenry was behaving, and continues to behave, so recklessly? Why are we hooked on credit? Why don’t we act responsibly and save? The truth is that when a government debases currency, it creates an environment in which acting irresponsibly makes perfect sense.

    In the good old days, you knew where you were. Money was reliable. Savings more or less matched borrowing ( just like they’re meant to). The free market operation of interest rates made sure of that. If more people wanted to borrow, they had to pay a higher price to induce more people to save, and hence provide the funds”

    Now in the ultimate act of socialism/central planning, we have governments running up colossal debts and manipulating interest rates to make them look solvent.

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  71. stephieboy (2,522 comments) says:

    Jamie Whyte now backtracks on incest remarks

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11210507,

    Judith Collins comments,

    “Ms Collins said “there were bigger issues in the world” than incestuous relationships.

    “It’s the Act Party, and they’re known for their interesting and opposite views, and they don’t have to be a broad church mainstream party like ours.

    “He’s speaking as a philosopher, not as a parent,” she told RadioLive.”

    We live in interesting times, indeed.!

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  72. EAD (821 comments) says:

    @ Reid 11.29am

    my thoughts exactly. Like Aldous Huxley said “Technological progress has merely provided us with more efficient means for going backwards.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-25/do-no-evil-google-censor-snitch-state

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  73. Peter (1,664 comments) says:

    ACT….

    Bangs head against wall….

    The media are the enemy. Every question a potential attack line. Isn’t this flippin’ obvious? Why are you making it easy for them with this Colin Craig style response?

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  74. stephieboy (2,522 comments) says:

    EAD, I think a cursory look in the search box helps us see where those in your link are coming from,

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-26/illuminati-were-amateurs-matt-taibbi-explains-how-everything-rigged

    Aldous Huxley said that.? He has got to be out of his mind. !Roentgen’ s, Pasteur’s , Jenner’s , Fleming’, Marconi, Bell Turing’s etc, etc inventions and researches going backwards.????

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  75. cha (3,853 comments) says:

    The systemic corruption in Ukraine.

    http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/anders-aslund-payback-time-for-the-yanukovych-family-333567.html

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  76. wreck1080 (3,800 comments) says:

    it is commonly believed that John Key gives away his PM’s salary.

    Is this completely true? Just curious, someone told me it wasn’t.

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  77. Manolo (13,516 comments) says:

    The systemic corruption in Ukraine.

    What do you expect? They are quasi-Russians. :-)

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  78. RF (1,343 comments) says:

    Was passing through Christchurch Airport this morning and noticed Street & Coatsworth in the terminal area having what appeared to be a heated discussion. Obviously something nasty has upset them as they looked very unhappy. I hope it was not McCarten’s appointment.

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  79. Ryan Sproull (7,059 comments) says:

    Jamie Whyte shouldn’t back down. He’s made a point. If people disagree with it, they should respond with addressing that point, rather than responding with outrage – which is often a substitute for reasoned thought.

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  80. Peter (1,664 comments) says:

    When fighting a media war, don’t hand the enemy ammunition.

    Sadly, reasoned discussion is not what the MSM are about….they are about soundbites….nothing will change that fact.

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  81. Ryan Sproull (7,059 comments) says:

    Reasoned discussion is not what the MSM are about.

    No, but because they pander to their audiences, some responsibility lies with us all.

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  82. Peter (1,664 comments) says:

    I would have thought the key responsibility is to get ACT into parliament.

    It’s like the frog carrying the scorpion across the river. We wish it weren’t so, but we cannot change the nature of the scorpion.

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  83. dirty harry (444 comments) says:

    Lol…scottchris @815am lambastes stuff for publicly displaying a photo of some loser who thinks he’s a war veteran… then scottchris attaches a link for all to see a photo of the same guy…! Duh.

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  84. Sofia (828 comments) says:

    Pike River

    In December last year the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment dropped those charges and it was announced that the mine’s directors would pay $3.4 million to the families of the victims.
    At the time, Judge Jane Farish told the court there was no deal and the charges had been dropped because a successful prosecution was unlikely.
    Labour’s justice spokesman, Andrew Little, on Thursday released a letter from Mr Whittall’s lawyer, Stuart Grieve QC, which the MP says proves a deal was offered.
    In the letter to the ministry, Mr Grieve sets out a proposal for a voluntary payment of $3.4 million and says a condition is that it does not proceed with the charges laid against Mr Whittall.
    Mr Little obtained the letter under the Official Information Act.
    “There has been speculation about a backroom deal ever since the charges against Peter Whittall were dropped,” he said.
    “Now this letter confirms those fears.”
    – Radio Live
    http://www.3news.co.nz/Labour-Peter-Whittall-bought-his-own-justice/tabid/1607/articleID/333889/Default.aspx

    Ka-boom … again

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  85. dirty harry (444 comments) says:

    complete waste of taxpayers money…someone should be shot

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/9768461/Mass-dump-of-Tamiflu-a-bitter-pill-to-swallow

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  86. nickb (3,675 comments) says:

    NZH is reporting Lou Vincent might be in a spot of bother…

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  87. Ross12 (1,266 comments) says:

    How to twist the fact Labour style

    “http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/21725711/nats-billion-dollar-bungle-hid-20-000-kids-in-poverty-parker/”

    Yes the Treasury & Stats dept. reports to the Govt of the day but some stupid errors by them does not make it the relevant minister’s fault or the Govt’s error as Parker is trying to twist it.

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  88. MT_Tinman (3,043 comments) says:

    dirty harry (127 comments) says:
    February 27th, 2014 at 1:20 pm
    complete waste of taxpayers money…someone should be shot

    I agree.

    How ’bout we start with you – or are you able to offer an alternative action to those undertaken at the time?

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  89. MT_Tinman (3,043 comments) says:

    nickb, NZH might finally have got something right.

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  90. David Garrett (6,732 comments) says:

    I winced hugely last night and this morning when Jamie Whyte’s comments on incest were reported…This is exactly what happens when you combine a guy with no experience of the brutal business of politics and naivete about the media together with the “Get ACT whenever and however you can” MSM this country now has…I suspect the “journo” picked up on some navel gazing column Jamie wrote years ago and hit him with a pithy quote…and Jamie didn’t have the experience to field it…Rodney would never have walked into that trap, but unfortunately, unless Whyte gets a coterie of highly experienced minders around him pronto, he will continue to do this…

    I am sitting with an intelligent friend who takes little interest in politics…What she heard this morning was “ACT says its OK to for siblings to have sex along as they’re consenting adults”…that is NOT of course what Jamie actually said, but it’s what the electorate heard. Verdict: Must improve very rapidly

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  91. David Garrett (6,732 comments) says:

    ..And on the pseudo war veteran…this is NOT analagous to the Charlotte Dawson tragedy…this guy is absolutely the author of his own misfortune, and deserves all the opprobrium he will get…Medals are earned by brave men and women (aside from good conduct and nicely kept barracks type medals) and the bravery and suffering they represent is debased whenever a dickhead like this takes it upon himself to pretend to be what he never was, and probably never could be. I should add I guess that I certainly hope he doesn’t harm himself as a result…but comparisons with the hounding of Charlotte Dawson are fatuous…

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  92. cha (3,853 comments) says:

    Some insignificant dickhead buys some medals and pretends to be a war vet.

    An insignificant dickhead is an offensive dickhead.

    http://www.anzmi.net/index.php/medal-cheats

    http://www.anzmi.net/index.php/latest-cases

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  93. Scott Chris (5,974 comments) says:

    An insignificant dickhead is an offensive dickhead.

    Yeah well no doubt the story was tailored to those with a irrational sentimental attachment to things military.

    So the guys probably gonna be shamed into leaving the country. Totally commensurate with his crime right?

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  94. Judith (8,421 comments) says:

    I personally think it is an insidious crime to be a medal cheat.

    As D.G. has pointed out, medals were earned by people who quite literally put their lives on the line. The fought and lived for extended periods of time in the most violent and extreme circumstances. Regardless of the politics and issues surrounding the various wars, these were ordinary blokes doing what they believed was right at a great cost to themselves and their families – how dare someone pretend to have earned a medal – when they didn’t.

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  95. cha (3,853 comments) says:

    Yes, my lifetime attachment to a couple of ex-servicemen is sentimental and offensive dickheads upset the old boys.

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  96. dirty harry (444 comments) says:

    MT Tinhead..we could have given them to a third world country…half the time ” use by ” means fuck all , its just the suppliers way of moving stock…anyway , it was a waste of money..the sky didn’t fall after all did it. Some bureaucrat in a govt dept cocked up.

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  97. corrigenda (142 comments) says:

    Quote” When will the MSmedia ask Cunners/McCarten about the UNITE tax bill?

    The misappropriation -THEFT- of PAYE monies is a serious criminal offence……. well, it would be for any small pr large business.”

    Ah but McCarten is one of the chosen ones who get away with it. Just like Parker got away with lying to the Companies Office. You or I would have been prosecuted in either case.

    I also have vague recollections of a scandal regarding mystery envelope sales whereby the charity involved received only about 7% of the proceeds, the rest having been swallowed up by the fund raising company in administration fees and back pockets. Wasn’t it McCarten who was interviewed in TV in relation to this??? Please correct me if I am wrong.

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  98. corrigenda (142 comments) says:

    A great big WELL DONE to the Ausies.

    http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/21721293/australian-navy-blew-up-asylum-boat-indonesia-police/

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  99. cha (3,853 comments) says:

    Five days, 180 Lenin monuments demolished.

    http://euromaidanpr.wordpress.com/2014/02/26/interactive-map-of-lenin-showers-in-ukraine-released/

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  100. cha (3,853 comments) says:

    Vetoed.

    https://twitter.com/GovBrewer/statuses/438838664928325633

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  101. cha (3,853 comments) says:

    Ready, steady……

    http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/russian-troops-arrive-ukraine-russia-border-n39361

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  102. Johnboy (15,564 comments) says:

    Hi Judith..Missed you darling….BIG KISSES! :)

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  103. Johnboy (15,564 comments) says:

    Minus seems to be morphing into Don Speekingenglish! :)

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  104. Fletch (6,142 comments) says:

    A British Intelligence analyst claims Obama was born in Kenya in 1960, and not 1961 as he claims; that the CIA tested Obama’s DNA sample surreptitiously and found no match with his grandparents. So just who is this guy Obama?

    British Intelligence Advisor Barrister Michael Shrimpton reported Obama’s purported mom was not pregnant in 1961 and that Obama was born in Kenya in 1960. He said Kenya was under British intelligence files and that Obama’s father ran guns for the Mau Mau. He then dropped a bombshell claiming the CIA did covert DNA testing on Obama at a fundraising dinner and the test came back with no match to the claimed grandparents. Shrimpton said Rudy Giuliani’s people knew and sat on the intelligence and further stated he spoke with Hillary Clinton’s people and that they were quite interested.

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  105. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Andrew Little rushes forward for his first big day in the sun and steps on
    his prick.

    http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/21725531/dispute-continues-over-whittall-deal/

    He said he had proof. Turns out he has bullshit.

    Where would Little rate on the scale of the most obnoxious MPs in New Zealand ?

    He certainly rates in the top 3 for yelling out a continuous barrage of vacuous interjections
    during question time in parliament. The prat.

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  106. Johnboy (15,564 comments) says:

    I have on good authority Fletch that Obama’s great, great, great grandfather was Chicken George! :)

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  107. Lance (2,557 comments) says:

    @Fletch
    Who cares?

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  108. nasska (10,897 comments) says:

    Sheila the Aussie housewife got out of the shower and slipped over on
    the bathroom floor. Instead of slipping over forwards or backwards,
    she somehow slipped sideways and did the splits and suctioned herself
    to the floor. She yelled out for her husband Bruce.

    “Bruce! Bruce!” she yelled. Bruce came running in. “Bruce, I’ve
    bloody suctioned myself to the floor,” she said.

    “Strewth!” Bruce said and tried to pull her up. “You’re stuck fast
    girl. I’ll go across the road and get Cobba.” (his mate)

    They came back and they both tried to pull her up.

    “Let’s try Plan B.” said Cobba.

    “Plan B?!” exclaimed Bruce. “What’s that?”

    “I’ll go home and get my hammer and chisel and we’ll break the tiles
    under her,” replied Cobba.

    “Spot on.” Bruce said. “While you’re doing that, I’ll stay here and
    play with her tits.”

    “Play with her tits?” Cobba said, “Not exactly a good time
    for that mate.”

    “No,” Bruce replied, “But I reckon if I can get her wet enough, we
    can slide her into the kitchen where the tiles aren’t so expensive.”

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  109. cha (3,853 comments) says:

    Shit happening in Crimea.

    http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-crimea-parliament-stormed/25278009.html

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  110. Johnboy (15,564 comments) says:

    No worries cha when the chips are down who do you call for with Crimea experience ?

    Yes The Florence Nightingale Agency!! :)

    http://www.florence2care.co.nz/

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  111. Manolo (13,516 comments) says:

    Five days, 180 Lenin monuments demolished.

    And a few thousands to go. Down with the criminal Lenin’s statues.
    D. Volkogonov’s book presents a revealing portrait of this monster.

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  112. Johnboy (15,564 comments) says:

    What’s your position on Vasili Blokhin Manolo?

    Do you think a man such as him could serve the center right as a deterrent to Silent’s new mentor? :)

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  113. cha (3,853 comments) says:

    30 August 1918:

    Comrades! The kulak uprising in your five districts must be crushed without pity … You must make example of these people.

    (1) Hang (I mean hang publicly, so that people see it) at least 100 kulaks, rich bastards, and known bloodsuckers.

    (2) Publish their names.

    (3) Seize all their grain.

    (4) Single out the hostages per my instructions in yesterday’s telegram. Do all this so that for miles around people see it all, understand it, tremble, and tell themselves that we are killing the bloodthirsty kulaks and that we will continue to do so

    … Yours, Lenin. P.S. Find tougher people.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror

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  114. Fletch (6,142 comments) says:

    Another woman named Charlotte found hanged by her own hand in Oxford. Also had an abortion because her b/f didn’t want the baby.
    Make of it what you will.

    ‘But Charlotte was much better in the new year. Then, in February, she discovered she was seven weeks pregnant despite taking contraception.’

    Mr Fardell told his girlfriend that he was not ready to be a father and supported her as she came to the ‘incredibly difficult’ decision to terminate the pregnancy.

    After cancelling her first appointment, Miss Coursier’s abortion was carried out on March 25 – something she later described as ‘murdering her child’.

    ‘She was very low for weeks after this and she found it very difficult to get over having murdered her child, as she put it,’ said Mr Fardell.

    ‘Although she stopped mentioning it after a while I’m not sure she ever got over it.’

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2568586/Oxford-student-hanged-splitting-boyfriend.html#ixzz2uVDZeRY9

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  115. nickb (3,675 comments) says:

    nickb, NZH might finally have got something right.

    Elaborate?

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  116. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    nickb surges ahead
    now 3575 comments.
    Most comments in the shortest time, well done nickb

    Some really have been profound, such as, “Elaborate?”

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  117. MT_Tinman (3,043 comments) says:

    nickb, the story, right or wrong, has been around for quite a while now.

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  118. RF (1,343 comments) says:

    It is no secret some Senior members of Cunliffes caucus are spewing about the appointment of McCarten and are very pissed off. They were counting on Jim Anderton coming back into the fold to assist with the election as promised by Cunners. This is going to backfire on The smarmy prick as his problems have just increased.

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  119. nickb (3,675 comments) says:

    Thanks Tinny. Hadn’t seen this particular allegation reported before.

    Beryl, I thought “eat shit and die” was marginally more profound. Did you forget it?

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  120. Judith (8,421 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy (12,915 comments) says:
    February 27th, 2014 at 7:06 pm

    Why thank you kind Sir. I’ve been busy … and on holiday :-) and then busy again … still.

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  121. kowtow (7,931 comments) says:

    The medal guy served in the army. He would have known full well you do not wear medals you weren’t awarded.Ever.

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  122. wat dabney (3,721 comments) says:

    Senior Labour MPs are right to be furious. Knowing he was going to lose, Cunliffe has rolled the dice on a selfish, high-risk scorched-earth policy which will either get him across the line or keep the party out of power for at least another 8 years. He has nothing to lose, but they certainly do. He could have done the decent thing and built up respect and support so Labour would get in next time; but that’s no good to him if he gets rolled in the meantime. He has resolved to take them all down with him.

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  123. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    And young nickb proves once again that he is a real class act.
    Not.

    Maybe nickb should get a room with his new best mate, “Tinny”
    (love you “Tinny”)
    ‘kin pathetic.
    nickb should give lessons on how to suck up.

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  124. dime (9,662 comments) says:

    oh bereals been drinking today.

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  125. martinh (1,164 comments) says:

    Why hasnt DPF posted on this letter about WHittle?
    That was the biggest political story of the day.
    Is Key involved- did Key put money before justice for the families as thats what he thinks matters most to people?
    Did Joyce, as Minister of Dept involved, go along with this like a poodle?
    Will this allow Judith Collins to poke her nose out in front in terms of next leader?

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  126. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Shit, looks like a ‘Los trios” could be on the cards.

    “Trinny”, young nickb and dime.

    A tripple header.

    dime, those girls would probably turn it up for you for free.

    Could save you mega bucks on what you usually pay darl.

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  127. cha (3,853 comments) says:

    Things happening.

    Russia puts fighter jets on its western border on combat alert, defense ministry says – Interfax via

    https://twitter.com/BreakingNews/statuses/438948976352821248

    https://twitter.com/20committee

    https://twitter.com/JustHovensGreve

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  128. Nostalgia-NZ (5,039 comments) says:

    martinh 9.30. There’s no problem with pre-trial or pre sentence negotiations, they offer expediency. These are now public which is in the public interest.

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  129. martinh (1,164 comments) says:

    Nostalgia.
    There is a problem when those in negotiations dont represent those affected by the crime and those negotiating stand to gain themselves by not having evidence brought out about them-

    Remember the lawyer- Mr Grieve said he had very bad evidence against Steven Joyces dept which would come in court.

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  130. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Second thoughts,

    apologies to MT_Tinman
    Shouldn’t have refferred to you as a girl.
    Poofters like nickb suck up to you hoping that by calling you ‘Tinny” he will recruit you.

    Jeez these young suckarses are so shallow.

    Come right down to it talking about eating shit is about all they have.
    Seems that he has recruited dime but.
    Birds of a feather and all that.

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  131. Nostalgia-NZ (5,039 comments) says:

    martinh, I don’t know all the details but I think I understand that Peter Whittle is isolated out for blame, it’s a bit naïve to follow the line that the disaster was the fault of Whittle, the situation seems to have been close to the edge long before Whittle happened along.

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  132. martinh (1,164 comments) says:

    Im not blaming Whittle, im just blaming Joyce, Finnlayson and Key for making sure we and the families dont ever find out why.
    Id love to hear what Grieve was going to say about this bloody beaureaucrat department

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  133. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    martinh

    So you really think that Joyce, Findlayson and Key have an interest in covering up the why ?

    Why would that be so ?

    Why ?

    What would be their motivation?

    You have the floor, tell us why ?
    What would be in it for them to act as you suggest ?

    Can you suggest even one cogent reason ?

    What is it ?

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  134. Nostalgia-NZ (5,039 comments) says:

    I see it a different way martinh, the chance for the families to move on rather than have fresh detail sought that might disrupt them from their privacy or chance to speak for themselves.

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  135. martinh (1,164 comments) says:

    Bereal-
    Cost cutting and poor management at Steven Joyces Ministry meant that there were no proper oversight.

    My imagination runs wild with the comment by Whittles lawyer that he had amazing evidence that would show that it was not his clients fault but other authorities- i have forgotten the words exactly but it was definitely pointed at Joyces dept.

    This is the cogent reason BeREal

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  136. martinh (1,164 comments) says:

    Nostaglia
    Yes you a thinking its a chance for the family to move on and take the money BUT the family have said thats blood money and they would like to hear what WHittle had to say, they want to know what Joyces dept got up to too.
    Its not a moving on chance for them at all, its a cover up

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  137. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Five days, 180 Lenin monuments demolished.

    NOW GET THAT MAORI CLOAK OF CHAIRMAN MAOS OUT OF TEPAPA

    OR BURN IT

    BURN IT GET IT OUT OF OUR COUNTRY ALONG WITH THE CLOWN WHO APPEASE THE LIE THAT IS COMMUNISM

    THE SCOURGE ON HUMANITY

    LOOK AT THIS JOKE

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/nbmao/870292564-maori-cloak-given-to-chairman-mao–returned-to-nz-govt

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10876945

    BURN IT RETURN IT GET IT OUT OF OUR COUNTRY

    40 MILLION OF HIS OWN PEOPLE AND THAT IS A CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE

    AND HIS CLOAK IS IN TEPARA

    WHAT LIES

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