General Debate 5 February 2014

February 5th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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149 Responses to “General Debate 5 February 2014”

  1. All_on_Red (1,752 comments) says:

    Some nice graphs and explanation showing why the economy is the US is truly screwed.
    http://pjmedia.com/spengler/2014/02/04/the-exhausted-us-economy-and-a-lesson-for-republicans/?singlepage=true

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  2. Pete George (23,836 comments) says:

    Shane Jones has said that Waitangi Day is more like Wairangi Day for some.

    wairangi – to be beside oneself, in a daze, infatuated, foolish, suffering from mental illness, demented, deranged, unbalanced, unhinged, crazy.

    foolish, irrational – take heed that the councils of the foolish do not prevail, and that the whole country is not thrown into anarchy and confusion by the folly of a few misguided men.

    Jones could have a point – Shane Jones on “mental” Wairangi Day.

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  3. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    If ever there was a case against Muslim immigration and “multiculturalism” then this is it.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/02/australian-fighters-syria-alarm-officials-201422132139299187.html

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  4. CharlieBrown (1,054 comments) says:

    far out, townies have no idea:

    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/brutal-calf-deaths-reality-dairy-5823960

    Getting a clean shot with a rifle is far less reliable, riskier and crueller than using a hammer. Unfortunately, people and the media confuse unpleasant with cruel.

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  5. jakejakejake (143 comments) says:

    After receiving a squashed board game for Christmas with only 5% refund (or wait 30-45 days for replacement) from Fishpond and Whitcoulls taking 2 weeks to tell me an item I ordered is out of stock I was very pleased to see this morning National shitting right inside NZRA’s mouth with the delay of the online GST report.

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  6. redqueen (597 comments) says:

    Must be a quiet day in the newsroom: NZ Herald is just repeating lots of shite from the Independent in the UK, including absolute bollocks like:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11196931

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  7. nickb (3,696 comments) says:

    I see the ECB has just made the decision to sack Kevin Pietersen. Looks like his international career is over.

    Seems bizarre he has been made the Ashes scapegoat when he was England’s highest scorer and is still clearly their best batsman. Bell and Cook should also be sacked using that standard.

    Trott, Swann, and Pietersen all gone, Anderson getting old and no consistent third seamer or spinner in sight, batting still very fragile…looks like a slide down the rankings awaits England

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  8. Elaycee (4,425 comments) says:

    And so another visit to Waitangi by the Prime Minister and the Queen’s representative, has been marred by more boorish behaviour from the Harawira clan. And as sure as the sun comes up in the morning, there will be more of the same crap tomorrow.

    Why do we bother? Waitangi Day has degenerated into just another photo op for the Harawiras of the world as they push their way onto centre stage. Surely we deserve better.

    I’ve been fortunate to experience ‘National Days’ in several countries – some memorable days include those of Australia, USA and Canada. All are genuine celebrations. But not so here in NZ…. our country! Because our National Day has been stolen by a small band of poorly behaved misfits who want time in the spotlight. And their antics are lapped up and repeated by our lapdog MSM.

    Never thought I’d ever say it…. but Helen Clark had it right – when she was treated like crap on one occasion, she said “Enough” and never went back.

    It’s a pity our current politicians aren’t saying the same thing.

    /Rant over.

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  9. Scott Chris (6,178 comments) says:

    far out, townies have no idea

    Yes. When I was living up north I recall an incident in which a hill-billy neighbour was trying to kill a mature sow with a .22 rifle. Poor animal was screaming for what seemed like an eternity as he pumped in maybe 20 rounds. Heartless fucker eventually finished it off with an axe, then went down to the pub and boasted about it.

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  10. Longknives (4,968 comments) says:

    “Townies have no idea
    Getting a clean shot with a rifle is far less reliable, riskier and crueller than using a hammer. Unfortunately, people and the media confuse unpleasant with cruel.”

    C’mon mate admit it- You enjoy bashing their brains out don’t you…Just a little?

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  11. Brian Smaller (3,966 comments) says:

    @Kowtow. It grinds my gears when the news reports ‘Australians’ or ‘Canadians’ or ‘British’ fighting in these Islamic shitholes. These people are jihadis who recognise only one government – a worldwide Islamic caliphate. That they hold citizenship or passports from a particular country is a matter of convenience for them.

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  12. flipper (4,332 comments) says:

    CharlieBrown (737 comments) says:

    February 5th, 2014 at 8:11 am

    far out, townies have no idea:

    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/brutal-calf-deaths-reality-dairy-5823960

    Getting a clean shot with a rifle is far less reliable, riskier
    ******

    Now Shultz would have made the same observation.

    And is that not one of the reasons why the media wankers crucify MacDonald….using a ball hammer on calves.

    Not one of the media would know a single thing about the stark reality of farming.

    Just TV wanker crap.

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  13. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    charlie brown

    I see the gummint guidelines include “hammer”.

    Again this is a reflection on our lightweight ,superficial and sensationalist urban centric media.

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  14. Longknives (4,968 comments) says:

    Waitangi Day is a fucking disgrace.
    Makes me even more ashamed to be a New Zealander…

    Just look at the state of these protesters-
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11196765

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  15. flipper (4,332 comments) says:

    Elaycee (3,784 comments….
    ***

    No rant. Keep going.
    Agree….and F the T of W

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  16. Brian Smaller (3,966 comments) says:

    “Townies have no idea
    Getting a clean shot with a rifle is far less reliable, riskier and crueller than using a hammer. Unfortunately, people and the media confuse unpleasant with cruel.”

    C’mon mate admit it- You enjoy bashing their brains out don’t you…Just a little?

    C’mon mate admit it- You want to watch…..Just a little?

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  17. Sofia (858 comments) says:

    Labour leader David Cunliffe says he will not campaign against the Greens to drive their vote down in the upcoming election

    TPP
    The review led by Victoria University academic Geoff Bertram argued about a third of the $5.5b in benefits identified by the US-based pro-free trade Peterson Institute, and repeated by ministers, should not be included ‘‘as they are outside established economic theory’’.
    They did not take into account the full costs of TPP, including clauses that could sideline local courts, reduce national sovereignty and weaken regulatory autonomy.

    Does that include whucking the Treaty of Wairangi … at last? :-)

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  18. EAD (1,454 comments) says:

    @ Kowtow, @ Brian Smaller

    If you have the time I would highly recommed you read the below:

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/12/23/greatest-gift-paul-craig-roberts/

    It is the most powerful argument I’ve ever read against all of the shibboleth’s of the progressive movement.

    An excerpt:
    “Diversity at home and hegemony abroad are consuming values and are dismantling the culture and the rule of law. There is plenty of room for cultural diversity in the world, but not within a single country. A Tower of Babel has no culture. A person cannot be a Christian one day, a pagan the next and a Muslim the day after. A hodgepodge of cultural and religious values provides no basis for law – except the raw power of the pre-Christian past…..The voices that reach us through the millennia and connect us to our culture are being silenced by “political correctness” and “the war on terror.”

    Everything, absolutley everything the Progressive movement is about is designed to seperate Western Civilization from it’s singulary unique underpinnnings of INDIVIDUALS equal in rights to all other citizens, protected from tyrannical government by the rule of law and free speech.

    What is political correctness except a form of speech repression designed to make it impossible to express our thoughts and speak the truth however unpleasant that truth may be.

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  19. Sofia (858 comments) says:

    And …
    While anti-mining protesters are planning a torrid welcome for John Key at Waitangi tomorrow, the Prime Minister was close to receiving the cold shoulder from Te Tii Marae this year, Ngapuhi kaumatua Kingi Taurua says.

    Must have been a hard decision – whether to snub the Prime Minister by univiting him, or have him turn up to be rude to him in person.

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  20. alex Masterley (1,538 comments) says:

    Charileb

    Urbanites really have no idea about the reality of farming. It’s not all bucolic bliss.

    The tack hammer has been the most convienient and effective tool invented for dealing with surplus livestock.

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  21. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    “kowtow (6,248 comments) says:

    February 5th, 2014 at 8:04 am
    If ever there was a case against Muslim immigration and “multiculturalism” then this is it.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/02/australian-fighters-syria-alarm-officials-201422132139299187.html

    katie, why don’t you return to Syria, the historic centre of your cult, and sort it out. Take your predjudices and bigorty with you. You are nothing more than an ignorant little girl unable to deal with your fear of death and pretending to believe in fairy tales promising enternal life.

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  22. Pete George (23,836 comments) says:

    Waitangi Day has always been and will likely always be a day of protest for some. This is made easy by it being an event in just one location, and enabled by a willing media who amplify any dissent – in could be argued that they are often the catalyst for dissent and sometimes seem to promote it.

    There’s little point in grizzling about what is.

    What we could do is take this opportunity to look at how we can have an alternative day where we can celebrate New Zealand as a whole.

    Options include:
    1. Establish a new day for celebration that doesn’t include a public holiday.
    2. Convert a current public holiday into a New Zealand Day. Queens Birthday is the best candidate for this – it isn’t her birthday anyway, and it currently has virtually no significance except for being a Monday off for most people.
    3. Just keep grizzling about Waitangi Day and do nothing about it.

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  23. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    “kowtow (6,248 comments) says:

    February 5th, 2014 at 8:04 am
    If ever there was a case against Muslim Christian immigration and “multiculturalism” then this is it.”

    Netanyahu condemns ‘Jesus is a monkey’ graffiti in monasteryDefense Minister calls on police to tackle ‘Jewish terrorism;’ Labor head terms desecration in Latrun ‘hooliganism and racism’

    Police believe the vandalism at the Monastery of the Silent Monks in Latrun, which included the words “Jesus is a monkey,” was a response by extremists to the evacuation of West Bank outposts earlier in the week.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-politicians-condemn-anti-christian-vandalism-of-monastery/

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  24. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    “kowtow (6,248 comments) says:

    February 5th, 2014 at 8:04 am
    If ever there was a case against Muslim immigration and “multiculturalism” then this is it.

    —————————————————————————————–

    Price-tag vandals struck again in downtown Jerusalem overnight on Sunday, defacing a prominent Baptist church. Vandals scrawled “Death to Christians,” “We will crucify you” and “Jesus son of Mary the whore” on the exterior of the building.

    Price-tag attacks are a tool used by Jewish extremists to protest government and army policies they perceive as antisettlement.

    http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Latest-price-tag-attack-against-Jlem-church

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  25. Ashley Schaeffer (535 comments) says:

    Waitangi Day. Good for a day off work and fuck all else. Piss on the treaty. Piss on the Hatfields. Piss on the pollies who subject themselves to bile every year at Waitangi. And piss on the media for covering it all.

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  26. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    katie, do you think Mary was really whore, like your Jewish friends claim ? I suspect that is a bit harsh and she was probably just a liar.

    I note with interest the Muslims of Israel are not subject to having their holly places attacked and are not spat on it the street either. I suspect it is because Muslims do not have the history of persecuting Jews like you Christians do. The Jews are not fooled by your very recent change in focus of targeting Muslims. They know how fickle your hatred really is.

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  27. James Stephenson (2,268 comments) says:

    I see the ECB has just made the decision to sack Kevin Pietersen.

    Not before time. He’s a Grade A cock. I’d rather watch England lose without him, than win with him.

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  28. Fisiani (1,052 comments) says:

    If you want to see DPF in a theatrical cameo I’d suggest you go on the Monday night

    If you want to see various MP’s go the other sessions.
    IMMACULATE DECEPTION

    When Anna wakes up next to her brutally murdered husband, Billy, her guilt seems to be beyond doubt. But did the Police get it wrong? Was Anna framed? Did Billy have secrets that were worth dying for? And what does Rosebud have to do with it? Nothing is as it seems in this twisted mystery. Receiving its world premiere at Fringe 2014, Immaculate Deception will keep audiences guessing long after the final curtain has fallen.

    Immaculate Deception was written by New Zealand’s leading medical hypnotist, Dr Pat McCarthy, and is produced and directed by Tanya Piejus (Proof, Rabbit Hole, The Diary of Anne Frank and Cold Comfort Farm).

    It features a number of well-known Wellingtonians from the political and artistic fields in cameo roles and all profits go to youth and sustainable development charity, Raleigh International.

    Immaculate Deception will be performed at Whitireia Theatre, 25-27 Vivian Street as follows:

    Friday 7 February 2014 at 8 pm
    Saturday 8 February at 8 pm
    Sunday 9 February at 3 pm
    Sunday 9 February at 8 pm
    Monday 10 February at 8 pm

    Tickets are available now from http://www.thetheatre.co.nz

    Keep up to date with production news at: http://www.facebook.com/ImmaculateDeceptionFringe2014

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  29. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    “Evangelical Christians have a high opinion not just of the Jewish state but of Jews as people. That Jewish voters are overwhelmingly liberal doesn’t seem to bother evangelicals, despite their own conservative politics. Yet Jews don’t return the favor: in one Pew survey, 42 percent of Jewish respondents expressed hostility to evangelicals and fundamentalists. ”

    As an observant Jew, I endorse all the facts in Wilson’s article, and offer an honest, heartfelt response. Accounting only for my own feelings, but certain they are common to many Jews like myself, I must tell Evangelicals: You annoy the goal post hockey stick hockey stick out of us.

    The majority of you don’t speak Hebrew well enough to even understand my Bible, never mind assert foolish things about prophecies predicting Jesus. And those of you who do have a half decent command of Biblical Hebrew either lack the scholarship to understand why those “proofs” are idiotic, or are outright swindlers, looking to mislead innocent, ignorant Jews.

    In other words, while I and my fellow faithful Jews like the fact that the next pogrom will not come from an Evangelical torch and pitchfork crowd, we still don’t trust you. You can’t say you love me for who I am, because who I am includes a thorough rejection of the essence of your ideology, all of it, completely, I hold that there’s no truth to it whatsoever.

    http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/must-jews-dislike-the-christians-who-like-them/2014/01/07/

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  30. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    Ashley S

    I see the GG ,in excusing the rudeness there claimd the treaty is a “partnership”.

    I add him and “partnership” to your list ,as well as the courts that enshrined undefined so called principles of the treaty in our constitution through judicial activism.

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  31. Ashley Schaeffer (535 comments) says:

    We’re going to need to drink a lot of water kowtow.

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  32. Pete George (23,836 comments) says:

    The treaty is a partnership agreement. It has been used successfully to address past illegal actions. And it is overused by a few wrongly in protests.

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  33. wf (483 comments) says:

    AS far as I can tell, the only people who care about Waitangi Day are the people who attend, and those who write about it on blogs such as this. And a few academics. The rest of us are over it.

    Where I live (a very ‘maori’ community), no one thinks anything much about it, and picnics, impromptu sports meetings seem to be the main activities – just like any Sunday.

    Of course, if ceremonies were brought here, everyone would shape up with enthusiasm to make decent theatre of the whole thing. It would probably be good fun for everyone.

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  34. dime (10,222 comments) says:

    Nick – I think KP is a Nonu type cancer. Not that I follow english cricket that much. Just when we play em or the ashes are on..

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  35. alex Masterley (1,538 comments) says:

    I have always thought that KP had an extreme narcissistic streak in him which pissed his teammates off. Looking at things from admittedly afar it looks like that having KP on the team was an egregious breach of the “no dickheads” rule.

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  36. Sofia (858 comments) says:

    A Radio Live poll yesterday apparently shows 4% of listeners will do something related to Wairangi Day – 96% will just do something else that befits a public holiday.

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  37. dirty harry (530 comments) says:

    The maoris need to be told to go and make a large mug of STFU.

    Feb 6th needs to be converted to New Zealand day.

    Then , and only then will you have full engagement and real celebration from the rest of NZ.

    Unfortunately our employees have no balls and are too busy appeasing the natives.

    They make me puke.

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  38. jp_1983 (238 comments) says:

    What about Maoris not keeping their end of the Treaty of Waitangi, can it go the other way?

    Lets see ol’ whitey take a claim and see what happens.

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  39. calendar girl (1,259 comments) says:

    Nonu has had obvious problems at various Super Rugby and provincial teams, but he’s hardly been a “cancer” in the ABs with his international performances over the last couple of years.

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  40. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    sofia

    That won’t stop the media from claiming we were all out there “celebrating” our founding document, partnership and national day each in our own way!

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  41. Longknives (4,968 comments) says:

    What’s with all the contempt for Kevin Pietersen? A Test average of 47 (ODI average of 40+) and 23 Test centuries….
    At his best one of the most feared attacking batsmen in World cricket.

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  42. Ashley Schaeffer (535 comments) says:

    That won’t stop the media from claiming we were all out there “celebrating” our founding document, partnership and national day each in our own way!

    I will be giving the traditional celebratory shake of my head in disbelief.

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  43. Jack5 (5,286 comments) says:

    More evidence of damage from synthetic narco’s and drug-pushing dairies. Taxpayer money to welfare beneficiaries headed straight for the pockets of the synthetic narco’s.

    Peter Dunne and other politicians have been derelict in their duty by taking so long to bring synthetic drugs under control.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/9687652/Legal-highs-leave-woman-a-rocking-crying-mess

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  44. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    Peter Dunne and other politicians have been derelict in their duty by taking so long to bring synthetic drugs under control.

    Maybe Dung was too busy drinking piss and hitting on young reporters to tell the rest of us how to live ?

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  45. dirty harry (530 comments) says:

    “Kea (10,250 comments) says:
    February 5th, 2014 at 10:46 am”

    LMFAO..

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  46. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    dirty harry, don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against boozing and womanising. I just don’t like busy bodies bossing me around very much ;)

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  47. mandk (1,033 comments) says:

    Q4 2013 compared with Q4 2012:
    Filled jobs up
    Employment up
    Employment rate up
    Unemployment rate down

    Leader of the Opposition, David Cunliffe, is reported as saying, “Bugger”

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  48. nickb (3,696 comments) says:

    Longknives – seems pretty harsh. Must be some serious stuff going on off-field.

    Scapegoat of the century

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  49. Colville (2,318 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9687884/Unemployment-drops-to-6-0pc

    Unemployment down to 6.0%

    Another nail in Cun*liffe’s coffin ! :-)

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  50. wikiriwhis business (4,209 comments) says:

    The proof of th epudding speaks for itself.

    The UK is moving to keep non EU residents out of Britain to keep the true state of the botomed out economy

    and drastic homelessness out of world view. The US is also becoming insular and a fortress

    UK visa for Kiwis now double the process cost

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/9686523/UK-visa-for-Kiwis-now-double-the-process-cost

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  51. Pete George (23,836 comments) says:

    Not just an improvement in unemployment, we are absorbing net immigration as well.

    Job numbers grew 0.4 per cent in the December quarter, in figures also out today. Economists had expected jobs growth of about 0.5 per cent in the December quarter, for an annual growth rate of about 2.4 per cent.

    That’s promising.

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  52. cha (4,144 comments) says:

    Greenwald returning to the US any time soon, nope.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2014/02/intelligence-chairman-argues-selling-snowden-docs-a-crime-103100.html

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  53. Pete George (23,836 comments) says:

    Leader of the Opposition, David Cunliffe, is reported as saying, “Bugger”

    No, it looks like he’s been in La-Labour land:

    Labour’s done the numbers and believes it’s got a plan that will see it win the next election.

    The party’s 34 MPs have spent the past two days ensconced in a special caucus retreat planning for the election year ahead.

    Leader David Cunliffe says it’s been a positive couple of days.

    “We have a clear plan to win, we know what it takes to win. We’ve crunched the numbers, done the math, broken down our targets, and we have agreed a plan that will see each and every region of the Labour Party upping its game.”

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/1467064640-labour-does-the-numbers-on-election-plan

    Yeah, nah.

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  54. wikiriwhis business (4,209 comments) says:

    First NSA spy request data released

    Facebook, Microsoft, Yahoo and Google on Monday began publishing details about the number of secret government requests for data they receive, hoping to show limited involvement in controversial surveillance efforts.

    The tech industry has pushed for greater transparency on government data requests, seeking to shake off concerns about their involvement in vast, surreptitious surveillance programs revealed last summer by former spy contractor Edward Snowden

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/30014255/first-nsa-spy-request-data-released

    This would have all been fobbed off as convenient conspiracy theory before Edward Snowden. Now it can’t be.

    and if this isn’t just theory there’s so much else that isn’t either.

    The public has no privacy but the govt is a closed book (TPP)

    conspiracy deniers are either cavemen or part of the problem. There’s no in between.

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  55. jedmo (33 comments) says:

    I have some admiration for Australia’s hard-headed, self-interested, policy of banning welfare to kiwis. John Key says he’ll keep pushing them but sees little likelihood they’ll abandon it. So, why are we continuing to offer a full range of welfare to Aussies who come here? It makes us appear soft-headed to my mind.

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  56. wikiriwhis business (4,209 comments) says:

    ‘What about Maoris not keeping their end of the Treaty of Waitangi, can it go the other way?’

    It’s not Maori it’s just Ngapuhi always trying to get the attention of their Waikato King/nephew.

    Maori as a whole are happy with treaty settlements and are not complaining.

    Keep your complaints of Waitangi day confined to Ngapuhi.

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  57. Pete George (23,836 comments) says:

    It’sa small minority but not just Ngapuhi, Waitangi attracts the rent-a-protest mob as well.

    Not surprisingly the Greens are very much amongst the anti-oil protest.

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  58. wikiriwhis business (4,209 comments) says:

    Dotcom files ‘aged off’

    However, Prime John Key yesterday said the law governing the GCSB requires ‘‘raw intelligence’’ to be deleted (or ‘‘aged off’’) once it is no longer relevant.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/30014283/dotcom-files-aged-off

    and there lies the rub. This information was not irrelevant. It was pertinent evidence in a crown case.

    The PM and GCSB officials need to be facing charges for perverting the course of justice at the very least. No doubt more charges would be filed. Criminal!

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  59. Fletch (6,532 comments) says:

    WTF is wrong with those leading the U.S that they are prepared to bend over backwards for Iran at risk to their own country? It’s madness.

    The U.S.’s top nuclear negotiator admitted on Tuesday that Iran could continue developing ballistic missiles under the recently inked nuclear accord meant to scale back Tehran’s nuclear program.

    Under pressure from the Senate Foreign Relations Committee (SFRC), U.S. negotiator Wendy Sherman conceded that the U.S. failed to “shut down” Iran’s ongoing development of ballistic missiles, which have long range capabilities and are the preferred weapon for delivering a nuclear payload.

    “It is true that in these first six months we’ve not shut down all of their production of any ballistic missile that could have anything to do with delivery of a nuclear weapon,” Sherman told lawmakers during a hearing on the nuclear deal. “But that is indeed something that has to be addressed as part of a comprehensive agreement.”

    This comprehensive agreement will not be agreed upon for at least six months, Sherman admitted, giving Tehran a lengthy window in which to perfect its weapons systems.

    Iran plans to launch three new satellites into space in the coming weeks, according to regional reports. The technology used to conduct such a launch is similar to those used for ballistic missiles, leading experts to label Iran’s space program a cover for its ballistic missile work.

    http://freebeacon.com/iranian-ballistic-missile-program-can-continue-under-deal/

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  60. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    I have never met a Maori who benefits from the greivance industry and nor have they. I guess we just move in the wrong circles and are not part of the elite.

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  61. wikiriwhis business (4,209 comments) says:

    Spurred on by an aggressive Buy Australia campaign, the big Australian supermarkets are systematically stripping their shelves of New Zealand-produced goods sold under their ‘‘house brand’’ labels, in a move that threatens hundreds of millions of dollars worth of exports.

    Frozen foods, cheese and fresh vegetables are among the goods affected and cereals may also be on the hit list.

    Key will raise the issue in his meeting with Abbott in Sydney this week and it is understood the Government has received advice the move could be in breach of the decades-old Closer Economic Relations agreement with Australia.

    One option would be for the Government to lodge a formal objection but sources say the situation is complicated by the fact that CER is a government-to-government agreement, and it is not ‘‘straight forward’’ whether supermarkets are captured by that process.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9685723/Supermarket-stoush-sours-CER

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  62. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    WTF is wrong with those leading the U.S that they are prepared to bend over for Iran…

    Fletch, what are you on about ?

    Iran just wants to be left alone. They have not attacked anyone for centuries. Their last war was against a US backed Iraq. They are faced with a Nuclear armed Israel screaming for blood and an aggressive US military machine right next door looking for the next victim.

    If Israel wants to kill more Muslims, let them do it themselves and leave the West out of their absurd religious wars.

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  63. stephieboy (3,535 comments) says:

    EAD, a more balanced perspective on your much lauded Paul Craig Ribertts an ultra conservative and Conpiracy monger to the core,

    http://www.fontcraft.com/idiotwars/?p=21

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  64. Nookin (3,575 comments) says:

    “and there lies the rub. This information was not irrelevant. It was pertinent evidence in a crown case.

    The PM and GCSB officials need to be facing charges for perverting the course of justice at the very least. No doubt more charges would be filed. Criminal!”

    Sometimes it actually helps to check the legislation before fabricating criminal charges and erroneous conduct. The legislation does not authorise retention of records except in very specific circumstances. Civil proceedings do not appear to come within the ambit of “relevance”. I suspect that if the information had been retained, Mr Dotcom would have been arguing for additional damages by reason of the unlawful retention. Here is section 23.

    “Sec 23 Destruction of irrelevant records obtained by interception
    (1) Every person who intercepts any communication under section 16 or under an interception warrant or a … access authorisation must, as soon as practicable after the interception, destroy any copy that he or she may make of the communication, or any part of the communication, and any record, whether in writing or otherwise, of the information obtained by that interception, except to the extent [permitted by section 25 or to the extent] that the information recorded in the copy or record relates directly or indirectly to-
    (a) the protection or advancement of 1 or more of the interests specified in [section 7]; or
    (b) any of the Bureau’s functions under [section 8A or 8B].
    (2) Every person commits an offence and is liable on … conviction to a fine not exceeding $1,000 who knowingly fails to comply with subsection (1).”

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  65. stephieboy (3,535 comments) says:

    Kea , it’s a funny old world but Israel supported Iran during the Iraq- Iran conflict,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Iran_during_the_Iran–Iraq_war

    No doubt you must feel rather miffed, or is chuffed about this revelation. ?.Just shows how the world doesn’t turn around according to your black and white formulations.

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  66. Colville (2,318 comments) says:

    “We have a clear plan to win, we know what it takes to win. We’ve crunched the numbers, done the math, broken down our targets, and we have agreed a plan that will see each and every region of the Labour Party upping its game.”

    Done the math? Garbage in, garbage out I reckon.

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  67. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    stephieboy , I am opposed to war. What part of that do you have a problem with ?

    You are a keyboard warrior who tries to hind his prejudice and religious hate behind a veil of fake decency.

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  68. Manolo (14,180 comments) says:

    A good article: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/352892/who-racist-thomas-sowell

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  69. dirty harry (530 comments) says:

    good news

    Rae Portman murderer sentenced to minimum 21 years without parole

    A real sentence…now we are talking

    Thank you Judge.

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  70. Odakyu-sen (871 comments) says:

    I hear that NZ is about to accept 100 refugees. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11197112 I wonder how good this program has been for the country (and the refugees) since it was introduced.

    I hope that some long-term evaluation of its merits/failings is being undertaken (although comparing the various refugee groups would be like comparing apples with oranges).

    Does anyone have any anecdotal stories about the program’s results?

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  71. Manolo (14,180 comments) says:

    Piss on the Hatfields.

    Defecate on the scum is even more appropriate.

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  72. big bruv (14,224 comments) says:

    Manolo

    I have a solution to the problems of the Hatfield scum, one that I learned over the Xmas break.

    I spent Xmas and New year in Europe, while I was there (and this might come as a surprise to some left wing Kiwis) not one news outlet spoke about anything Maori at all.

    Just pretend you don’t live in NZ then it will not wind you up. Trust me, the rest of the world does not give a fuck about the rantings of some stone age thug.

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  73. stephieboy (3,535 comments) says:

    Kea, you just served to remind us all just what a problem your tunnel visioned approach to international geo politics leads to tragedies like the Syrian civil war.
    Even the Supreme Council of Iran would avoid your diagnosis and prognostications of ME affairs like the Plague.
    OdaKu sen I have some anecdotal stories.At a major public hospital I work at we have a number of Somali and Ethopian Nurses , doctors, radiographers et.
    Am sorry that might not help your possible prejudicial views.!

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  74. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    Odakyu-sen, I have a few anecdotes. Most of the refugees in my area are from South East Asia. They seem to do ok, but cause problems on the booze. Mainly drunk driving and smacking the wife around.

    As a refugee the normal rules around immigration are set aside. I met one chap who had mental health issues, spoke no English, and had an incurable contagious disease. His family was moving here too. But most are physically healthy and want to improve their lot in life. Some do very well for themselves through hard work.

    Some of these people have been through hell and seen some terrible things. It affects them. Their children fit in and do well.

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  75. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    stephieboy, are you opposed to war or not ? You forgot to say…

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  76. All_on_Red (1,752 comments) says:

    Manolo, good link. I just love Thomas Sowells knack for plain speaking. This stat is interesting
    “According to a recent Rasmussen poll, 31 percent of blacks think that most blacks are racists, while 24 percent of blacks think that most whites are racist.”
    Not surprising since 96% of blacks voted for Obama. They have to voting on racial lines as they sure arent voting on competence!
    It would be great to see Sowell debate Metuira Turea

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  77. Odakyu-sen (871 comments) says:

    Stephieboy: “.At a major public hospital I work at we have a number of Somali and Ethopian Nurses , doctors, radiographers et. Am sorry that might not help your possible prejudicial views.!”

    That is too bad for the Somalis and Ethiopians that their better-qualified seek to flee their countries (though no doubt these refugees have good reasons to). Perhaps NZ can invite them to work in Somalia or Ethiopia as part of our foreign aid activities. After all, they would be familiar with the languages, customs and cultures.

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  78. Weihana (4,621 comments) says:

    All_on_Red (789 comments) says:
    February 5th, 2014 at 8:03 am

    Some nice graphs and explanation showing why the economy is the US is truly screwed.

    These graphs are of limited use. They tell what we already know and provide little insight in to the underlying causes.

    The author concludes:


    The problem is NOT government spending, contrary to the well-meaning obsession of the Tea Party. That will BECOME the problem a decade or two from now. The problem now is obstacles to investment: the highest corporate tax rate in the world, onerous regulation, the crazyquilt uncertainty of Obamacare. America needs aggressive tax cuts and regulatory rollback. It also needs to spend more on infrastructure, which is becoming a major obstacle to growth. It needs to spend more on R&D, particularly on cutting-edge military R&D.

    Some of this is good. I agree especially with more spending on R&D (though I don’t necessarily agree it has to be wrapped in the stars and stripes to be justified). However, the claim that the US has the “highest corporate tax rate in the world” is misleading. It’s effective tax rate is lower and is lower today than it has been in the last 60 years. Indeed it’s been on a downward trend for the last 60 years.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Effective_Corporate_Tax_Rate_1947-2011_v2.jpg

    This is also reflected in corporate tax as a percentage of GDP which is also low.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Corporate_Income_Tax_as_a_Share_of_GDP,_1946_-_2009.gif

    Moreover, your link cites the problem of lower median incomes but provides little context. Median incomes have been stagnating for a while. This is especially apparent when you compare median household income to GDP.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gdp_versus_household_income.png

    Productivity increases but the rewards of that productivity are accumulating at the top.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_Income_Distribution_1947-2007.svg

    Given these trends it is hard to reconcile the “punishing success” narrative that keeps emanating from the political right. While I agree that taxation is overly complicated in the United States and should be simplified this isn’t going to be a magic bullet for the US economy. Nor is structuring taxation so that the rich job creators benefit as much as possible. Further, we have complaints of over-regulation yet we see chemical spills in utilities not inspected since the early 90s. Again, hard to reconcile with the right-wing narrative of excessive regulation.

    Suffice to say that complaints of over-regulation will be true in some cases as well as inefficient tax-regimes. Yet historically the United States has had plenty of regulation throughout the 20th century and tax rates today are much lower than they were in the past.

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  79. lilman (974 comments) says:

    Yahoooooooooo
    Waitangi day.

    Day off,fishing,eating,nap in the afternoon then off out for tea.

    Who would of thought that we would be celebrating the memory of a bunch of sailors banging some ugly wahines after all these years.Then selling them some blankets for all that land,what a deal.

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  80. Sofia (858 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis business – Dotcom files “aged off” [translation = bloody deleted]

    Would have thought the whole GCSB / Dotcom thing would be the topic for Key to step back from in Election year – not unless Key has daily close responsibility for all the GCSB does, he’d be better passing the buck back to people who run the outfit.

    [But then it is the only Government department guaranteed to listen to anyone :-) ]

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  81. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    I feel like a bastard for saying this, but here goes… Most refugees are escaping from a situation their views and behaviours created. Often they are only the victims as their group is not dominant at a particular point in time. At other times they have enjoyed domination and have treated their countrymen equally badly.

    I was speaking with a South East Asian guy who told me some stuff. Bad stuff. I asked what religion he was, searching for a reason as to why his group was targeted. He was Christian. Trouble was this was a Buddhist country. I did some research. They are seen as traitors who sold out their country to foreign agressors. When the Christian invaders were removed they no longer enjoyed a dominant position.

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  82. dime (10,222 comments) says:

    I just turned on radio live as i was out buying my lunch.

    Apparently (according to the communist host), waitangi day is a great day of unity for the country.

    Its a day where we all get to have our say and tell everyone how we fell.

    WHAT THE FUCK???

    by everyone has their say you mean some unemployed maori’s throw shit at politicians. its a national day of hate.

    If we were all going to have our say, dimes would go something like this.

    An Open Letter to Maori. (well about 75% of em).

    You are a disgrace. Your race/people whatever you want to call yourselves are going backward at a great speed.

    You are too lazy to fend for yourselves. You have been raised to think whitey owes you a living. Quick tip – no body owes you a goddam thing.

    You cant be bothered educating your kids.

    You appoint corrupt leaders who are duping you out out whatever they swindle from whitey.

    Stop pointing the finger outward and have a look at yourselves.

    It is a worry. You will end up like the poor abos in Australia the way you are going.

    Dimes tips:

    Get off the gravy train (its never actually coming). You may hear these big numbers and yes there are huge payouts, it NEVER FILTERS DOWN.

    Take a look around. Think – is this really what life is about?

    Get an education. Learn not to speak “bro”. Buy some clothes and get a job. Any job. Stick it out for a year and see how much better your life is. Dont complain about the bosses, wages, whatever. Get a work history and you’ll be amazed what happens.

    Dont listen to your leaders like Hone & his mummy. They are the ones keeping you down with promises and hate.

    Dont tattoo your fucking face! neck! lower arms! hands!

    To anyone who finds this “racist”, I can do one for white trash too if you like. Half of it applies with a few more things i can throw in :)

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  83. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    “Dont tattoo your fucking face! neck! lower arms! hands! ”

    Good advice for the Europeans too !

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  84. Viking2 (11,686 comments) says:

    PM’s Waitangi welcome held up by protest

    Definition of foolishness.
    Repeating the same actions and expecting a different result

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  85. dime (10,222 comments) says:

    Kea – as i said, half of it applies to white trash.

    i think white trash is going backwards too, just their % is lower.

    its a dam shame maori have no real leaders. leaders out to inspire and do the right thing. i may be wrong, happy to hear positive examples. i just never see it.

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  86. jcuk (760 comments) says:

    If the NZH report is accurate about the Prime Minister being delayed ninety minutes this morning I think it is a complete disgrace ….
    For God’s sake he is the PRIME MINISTER, whether you like his policies or not he should be treated with respect due to the OFFICE.
    I am suprised he didn’t simply turn on his heels and walk away … same as why people being interviewed by the arogant mob at National Radio do not simply cut the connection.

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  87. stephieboy (3,535 comments) says:

    Odakyu-sen (187 comments) says:
    February 5th, 2014 at 12:29 pm
    I find it hard what your driving at re sending them back to advise in aid and reconstruction.? There is likely enough agencies in Somalia and Eretrria who are getting along well with advice and support from the locals.
    I think it’s a very good thing that we accept an annual quota for refugees.The 100 , in my view , from Syria is a paltry amount given the tragic and serious nature of the conflict.
    This on humanitarian grounds alone is sufficient.As a general rule they make good and productive citizens.
    BTW some of those Somalis and Ethiiopians etc studied and graduated in NZ

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  88. Odakyu-sen (871 comments) says:

    “Most refugees are escaping from a situation their views and behaviours created. Often they are only the victims as their group is not dominant at a particular point in time.”

    I wonder if we could divide “refugees” into two or more categories. How’s this:

    Type 1. Non-elite, majority ethnic group members, fleeing general war/famine
    Type 2. Elite, majority ethnic group members, fleeing social uprising (re Russian Revolution refugees, former land-owners, etc.)
    Type 3. Non-elite, minority ethnic group, fleeing persecution/war/ethnic cleansing, etc.
    Type 4. Elite, minority ethnic group, fleeing “payback time”

    I think that mainly the Type 4 members would fall into your “they brought it on themselves” category, Kea, although it may be that the elites, with their better connections and higher awareness of the world beyond their country’s boundaries, may have more wherewithall to bail and run.

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  89. Lucia Maria (2,660 comments) says:

    Kea,

    I hope you are not talking about Vietnam in your 12:40pm comment, because that is a seriously view that you a putting forth if that is so.

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  90. Odakyu-sen (871 comments) says:

    Stephieboy, I wrote “invite them to work” not “send them back.”

    I have no doubt that some refugees would never want to set foot in their country of origin again, but some might be more effective in coordinating aid efforts by the New Zealand government or NZ private groups.

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  91. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    Lucy, not Vietnam. Not sure what you meant anyway.

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  92. flipper (4,332 comments) says:

    b>THIS DOES NOT LOOK GOOD FOR ANZ ET AL WHEN THE NZ CASE GOES TO TRIAL….

    from this morning’s Sydney Morning Herald:

    ***”

    ANZ customers gain partial victory

    Federal court rules ANZ’s late payment fees “exhorbitant”, but finds other types fees to be valid in a customer class action against the bank.

    ANZ customers suing the bank over its fees have had a partial victory, after the Federal Court today ruled its late payment fees charged on credit cards were illegal.

    However, the court today also ruled that other types of fees – so-called honour, dishonour, and non-payment fees – were not penalties and therefore allowed under the law.

    The ruling sets the scene for the customers and the bank to enter into talks over compensation, and could also result in similar discussions for customers of other major banks. ….”

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  93. Jack5 (5,286 comments) says:

    Anyone watch the Henry show on TV last night?

    The new libertarian leader of ACT wasn’t that impressive, in my view. He doesn’t like the term “libertarian”, preferring to be called a liberal. Unfortunately the word “liberal” is so confusing now, you don’t know whether the person described is a leftist agitator or a libertarian.

    I know Henry annoys some people here, but I think he’s miles ahead of Campbell and co. His car give-away was a bit of a fiasco, though.

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  94. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    Jack5, you possibly mean Classical liberalism.

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  95. stephieboy (3,535 comments) says:

    Odakyu sen

    By all means invite some of them to assist with aid projects in their countries of origin ( if there not doing that kind of thing already. ).But priority needs to be given assisting them to get themselves established and intergrated into our communities here.
    I take you support our annual refugee quotas.?.
    I see Libertrainnz has gone belly up and become extinct thinking of the new ACT leader.

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  96. Ross12 (1,488 comments) says:

    I see the Greens are crowing about the Govt. not proceeding to push for collection of the $1mill+ liability from the Wahopai vandals. Obviously the Govt. realises that they would not get anything from the vandals so it would be waste of taxpayers money to go further. The Greens are saying it would be vindictive to chase them in the courts –how dare anyone go after our peace activists !?!

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  97. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    stephieboy, are any of those folk Muslim ?, and if so, tell us how they threaten to kill you, wipe out Israel and take over the world.

    Just tell us about the most recent time…

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  98. wikiriwhis business (4,209 comments) says:

    RBS warns of ‘market bloodbath’ unless Fed halts taper

    Read more at http://www.maxkeiser.com/2014/02/rbs-warns-of-bloodbath-unless-fed-halts-taper/#F1yQ9BziDBKwqFyZ.99
    Well I thought the idea of QE is to save the banks, and to cheapen the dollar? With the tapering, emerging markets are tanking, and the Dollar is off like a rocket. Gold and silver should be used as a safe haven, $1900 gold, $50 silver, in turn this will cheapen the dollar. Or back to square one and double or triple the stimulus, and increasing the debt burden of the Fed. Those who speculate in the currencies of the emerging market are going to be rewarded if the Janet Yellen goes nuts with the printing presses.

    Good comment cause the Fed is not going to taper printing till the US is bankrupt.

    Read more at http://www.maxkeiser.com/2014/02/rbs-warns-of-bloodbath-unless-fed-halts-taper/#ShrRrXZ21ceyDmPU.99

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  99. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    its a dam shame maori have no real leaders. leaders out to inspire and do the right thing. i may be wrong, happy to hear positive examples. i just never see it.

    dime, plenty of Maori leaders have stuck their head above the parapet and said it like it is. They have been cried down and pissed on from all sides for their efforts.

    Maori are not stupid, but they are conformists and don’t like to stand out too much.

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  100. dime (10,222 comments) says:

    “Unfortunately the word “liberal” is so confusing now” – thats because it was hijacked from the left.

    it makes them sound all nice. who wouldnt want to be liberal?

    sad fact is the left arent liberal, they want to control you

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  101. dime (10,222 comments) says:

    “dime, plenty of Maori leaders have stuck their head above the parapet and said it like it is. They have been cried down and pissed on from all sides for their efforts.

    Maori are not stupid, but they are conformists and don’t like to stand out too much.”

    so youre saying they are wimps?

    the amount of maoris i see nowadays driving around in shitty cars, dressed badly, looking unemployable.. but they walk around like they own the joint. i guess thats what they believe.

    “we own this place bro!” its just that umm we are poor and going backwards..

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  102. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    dime, yes in that regard they are wimps.

    As for the chronic entitlitis they suffer. Blame white middle class progressives (self named).

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  103. dime (10,222 comments) says:

    “As for the chronic entitlitis they suffer. Blame white middle class progressives (self named).”

    that pisses me off even more, because those losers are convinced they have helped maori and the right wingers are the pricks!

    its like they took a dude, made him forget how to fish, then every so often they throw him some fish scraps.. and expect a thank you!

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  104. alex Masterley (1,538 comments) says:

    “sad fact is the left arent liberal, they want to control you”

    Never a truer word was said.

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  105. Odakyu-sen (871 comments) says:

    Stephieboy,

    NZ has to weigh up the pros and cons of allowing a token number of refugees into the country each year. As a matter of principle I oppose “feel good” programs.

    I would only support such a program if it could be shown to bring material benefits to New Zealand.

    Idealistically, I think it would be better for the UN (or some competent body) to address the root cause of any refugee problem, rather than worrying about where to put the refugees. Wouldn’t it be better to put out a small fire in a house rather than focus on where to house the inhabitants after their house has burned down?

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  106. Lucia Maria (2,660 comments) says:

    Kea,

    Not game to mention the country, then?

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  107. Odakyu-sen (871 comments) says:

    I did some research into this nasty condition that Kea brought up. This is what I found.

    en⋅ti⋅tl⋅i⋅tis

    [en-tahy-tl-ahy-tis] noun.

    a psychosis characterized by the subject’s inability to discern rights from entitlements, most common among proponents of “social or redistributive justice.” Commonly diagnosed alongside fairmania*, patients afflicted with entitlistis are functionally incapable of distinguishing the concept of unfettered access from the concept of provision. A contemporary example would be the inability to discern the right to access healthcare services from an entitlement to receive those services at a cost reduced or waived.

    Although further research is required, it is believed entitlitis most likely results from institutional deficiencies experienced during childhood, particularly parental neglect to instruct wards of the necessity to earn provisions. Since the nature of childhood is such that sustenance is provided as a condition of custody, if children are not instructed to expect otherwise, they may expect to have sustenance provided perpetually. Left unchecked, this expectation may become irreversible, leaving the afflicted functionally retarded and vulnerable to becoming the ward of any party who will provide sustenance.

    Note: I think that this unchecked form is the “chronic entitlitis” that Kea is referring to.

    Reference: http://www.redstate.com/walterscotthudson/2009/12/10/entitlitis-a-progressive-mental-disorder/

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  108. Jack5 (5,286 comments) says:

    Bringing back midwives has been one of the stupider aspects of twentieth century feminism.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11197184

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  109. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    Lucy, it is not relevant. If you have have point, spit it out woman !

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  110. mandk (1,033 comments) says:

    Kea @ 11.30: “Iran just wants to be left alone”

    Given Iran’s declared intent to wipe Israel off the map, this deserves a prize for being the most ridiculous statement it is possible to utter.

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  111. Ryan Sproull (7,361 comments) says:

    Given Iran’s declared intent to wipe Israel off the map, this deserves a prize for being the most ridiculous statement it is possible to utter.

    Reference, please.

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  112. publicwatchdog (3,162 comments) says:

    How appropriate is it for the NZ Attorney-General Chris Finlayson to give leave (under s.106 of the Crimes Act 1961), for a s.105 Bribery and Corruption private prosecution against Auckland Mayor Len Brown, when the very same Chris Finalyson voted FOR the NZ International Convention Centre (or – as I prefer to call it – the Sky City MONEY_LAUNDERING) Bill, at its Third Reading on 12 November 2013?

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________

    EVIDENCE Attorney-General Chris Finlayson voted in favour of the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill — Third Reading 12 November 2013

    How is this not a significant ‘conflict of interest’ for NZ Attorney-General Chris Finlayson?

    Even worse that it was a ‘personal’ vote?

    NZ Attorney-General Chris Finlayson voted in favour of the NZ International Convention Centre Bill (Third Reading). yet under s.106 of the NZ Crimes Act 1961,

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM328753.html

    106 Restrictions on prosecution

    (1)No one shall be prosecuted for an offence against any of the provisions of sections 100, 101, 104, 105, 105A,105B, 105C, and 105D without the leave of the Attorney-General, who before giving leave may make such inquiries as he or she thinks fit.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________

    http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/debates/debates/50HansD_20131112_00000024/new-zealand-international-convention-centre-bill-%E2%80%94-third

    New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill — Third Reading

    [Sitting date: 12 November 2013. Volume:694;Page:14549. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]

    New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill

    A personal vote was called for on the question, That the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill be now read a third time.

    Ayes 61

    Adams (P) Dunne (P) Key (P) Simpson (P)
    Ardern S (P) English (P) King C Smith (P)
    Auchinvole (P) Finlayson Lee (P) Tisch (P)
    Bakshi (P) Foss (P) Lotu-Iiga (P) Tolley (P)
    Banks (P) Foster-Bell Macindoe Tremain (P)
    Barry (P) Goldsmith (P) McClay (P) Upston (P)
    Bennett D Goodhew (P) McCully (P) Wagner
    Bennett P (P) Groser (P) McKelvie (P) Wilkinson (P)
    Borrows (P) Guy (P) Mitchell Williamson
    Bridges (P) Hauiti (P) Ngaro (P) Woodhouse
    Brownlee (P) Hayes (P) O’Connor S (P) Yang (P)
    Calder (P) Heatley (P) Parata (P) Young (P)
    Carter (P) Henare Roy (P)
    Coleman (P) Hutchison (P) Ryall (P)
    Collins (P) Joyce (P) Sabin (P) Teller:
    Dean (P) Kaye (P) Shanks (P) Ross

    Noes 59

    Ardern J (P) Harawira (P) Moroney Street (P)
    Browning (P) Hipkins (P) Norman (P) Tirikatene (P)
    Clark (P) Horan (P) O’Connor D (P) Turei
    Clendon (P) Hughes O’Rourke (P) Turia (P)
    Cosgrove (P) Huo (P) Parker (P) Twyford (P)
    Cunliffe (P) Jones (P) Peters (P) Walker (P)
    Curran King A Prasad (P) Wall (P)
    Delahunty Lees-Galloway (P) Prosser Whaitiri
    Dyson Little Robertson G (P) Williams
    Faafoi Logie (P) Robertson R (P) Woods (P)
    Fenton Lole-Taylor Roche
    Flavell Mackey Sage (P)
    Genter (P) Mahuta (P) Sharples (P)
    Goff (P) Mallard (P) Shearer (P)
    Graham (P) Martin Sio (P) Teller:
    Hague (P) Mathers (P) Stewart Beaumont
    Bill read a third time.

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________

    How appropriate is it for the New Zealand Auditor-General Lyn Provost to be a shareholder in Sky City?

    http://www.investigatemagazine.co.nz/Investigate/4817/auditor-general-asked-about-her-sky-city-conflict-of-interest/

    Cute.

    In New Zealand, ‘perceived’ to be ‘the least corrupt country in the world’ – both the Auditor-General and Attorney-General have arguably HUGE ‘conflicts on interest’ regarding Sky City?

    The Auditor-General owns shares in Sky City, and the Attorney-General voted for Sky City!

    (File under the category – ‘YOU COULDN’T MAKE THIS SH*T UP?’ )

    Penny Bright

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz

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  113. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    So poor old Kim Dotcom now feels he has been hard done by and is squealing like a stuck pig.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11197034

    Well boo freakin hoo.

    Maybe two of his biggest supporters, Russell Norman and Grant Robertson could lead a
    march up Queen St carrying placards calling for, “Justice for Kim Dotcom.” or
    “Hands off Kim.” or “Give Kim a fair go.”

    There seem to be enough gormless drongs around who think that the sun shines out of Kims fat
    arse that they could probably pack out Eden Park for a rally to support him. Go figure.

    Kim says he hopes New Zealanders will throw John Key out at our next election, just to show they
    agree he hasn’t had a fair go.

    FFS

    Will there ever come a day when what passes for a fourth estate in this country don’t run a story about freakin Kim Dotcom ?

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  114. Left Right and Centre (3,015 comments) says:

    Longknives 8:40am – It’s whitie’s fault that they are ugly as sin.

    Waitangi Day is a very small price to pay for being allowed to use all of this wonderful land the natives used to own.

    The thing is that the protests and demonstrations and shit have become the norm. The whole point of them – the message – is lost. It’s just boring now. They need something fresh. A true assassination attempt.

    It’s their protest day – it’s their time to shine. Not a problem. I’m happy for them. If that’s the best that they can do – it’s pathetic. Small potatoes. We all secretly love it too. There’s nothing like Maori behaving badly. They wrote the book on intimidation and ugliness and getting staunch and rarked up. It’s a thing of great beauty. Like watching lions hunt prey on the Serengeti. Seeing a majestic creature in it’s natural habit. Ruining an occasion. Being as badly behaved as possible. Threatening and scary. Generating incredible tension, friction and ill-feeling. They are the masters. They are lashing out at the invaders. It’s only natural and to be expected.

    The media loves it. It’s all turned Hollywood. We didn’t quite catch you throwing the red paint and sticking out the tongue – can you give us one more take ? And we thought it was a bit lacklustre to be honest anyhow – not your best work. A little bit more energy this time ? Have you seen a Lord Of The Rings battle scene ? Yes well, do your best anyway. Lights, camera, action….

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  115. gump (1,685 comments) says:

    @jack5

    “Bringing back midwives has been one of the stupider aspects of twentieth century feminism.”

    ————————-

    So a single midwife delivers poor care, and you consider that an indictment against all midwives?

    The same report also criticises the obstetrician assigned to the patient. Are obstetricians one of the “stupider aspects” of twentieth century medicine?

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  116. Lucia Maria (2,660 comments) says:

    Kea,

    Of course the country is relevant. Maybe it is Vietnam, and being caught out, you just don’t want to confirm it, wondering how with so little clues I could actually accurately guess it. Prove me wrong by naming the country. If you don’t name the country, it’ll look like I am right.

    My point is that you don’t seem to believe in freedom of religion, yet take advantage of a Christian heritage country where you can freely change your religion, even to appearing to being a belligerent atheist. Or is it the only acceptable direction for a person to take is to stay the religion of the culture they were born into? If so, you can’t be atheist.

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  117. gump (1,685 comments) says:

    The Scottish parliament has voted to legalise gay marriage by 105 votes to 18.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/9688086/Scotland-approves-same-sex-marriage

    I’ve always been proud of my Scottish heritage, and now I have something more to be proud about.

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  118. Left Right and Centre (3,015 comments) says:

    jedmo – you might’ve heard of the ‘dropkick exchange rate’. At the moment the Aussie dropkick departing for NZ is buying twenty Kiwi dropkicks heading for the streets paved with Gold Coast.

    It’s very weak in favour of Kiwi dropkicks and so they get less accordingly. When it drops to about 1:50 – Kiwis will be right down there with boat people on the welcome list.

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  119. Steve (North Shore) (4,538 comments) says:

    Waitangi Day. Wonder if that crazy Green nutbar Catherine Delahunty is going to tell us about ‘Waka and Watermelons’ this year?

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  120. Longknives (4,968 comments) says:

    TVNZ you are a fucking disgrace.
    Fancy having Sue Bradford jnr interviewing a protester wearing a Mana Party T-Shirt and trying to pass this off as impartial/unbiased news.
    I’m starting to think TV1 are even worse than TV3…

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  121. Manolo (14,180 comments) says:

    Meeting not of the minds, but of the Kenyans:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2551978/Barack-Obama-awkwardly-hugs-half-brother-newly-released-home-video-two-reuniting-20-years.html

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  122. johnwellingtonwells (137 comments) says:

    From TV1 News – Trevor Mallard is Labour’s Animal Welfare spokesman! No further comment necessary

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  123. Reid (16,742 comments) says:

    I’m starting to think TV1 are even worse than TV3…

    Crikey. Really? Will this crapulence ever end? I’m starting to think the only possible outcome for our MSM telly is pitchforks and torches interrupting the 6 o’clock bulletins then following a Paul Henry late-night special on the angry crowd, it’s pistols at dawn for the miscreants. I predict John Campbell would be a big baby, facing Simon Dallow at twenty paces.

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  124. nasska (12,111 comments) says:

    Ryan Sproull @ 5.11pm

    I’m probably going to regret taking the bait as I have a suspicion that you intend to do a ‘Pas de poisson’ on the head of a pin.

    The remark is usually attributed to former President ‘Dinner Jacket’ Ahmadinejad & Muslim cuddlers from far & wide have seized on the possible mistranslation of what he actually spoke but…..

    ….” in the 1980s Khomeini gave a speech in which he said in Persian “Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” This means, “This occupation regime over Jerusalem must vanish from the arena of time.” But then anonymous wire service translators rendered Khomeini as saying that Israel “must be wiped off the face of the map,” which Cole and Nourouzi say is inaccurate.

    Ahmadinejad slightly misquoted Khomeini, substituting “safheh-i ruzgar,” or “page of time” for “sahneh-i ruzgar” or “arena of time.” But in any case, the old translation was dug up and used again by the Iranian news agency,”….

    Either way it would be extremely difficult to misconstrue the message as one of peace & love.

    Ref: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/did-ahmadinejad-really-say-israel-should-be-wiped-off-the-map/2011/10/04/gIQABJIKML_blog.html

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  125. Reid (16,742 comments) says:

    extremely difficult to misconstrue the message as one of peace & love

    Same difficulty arises when construing almost any of Israel’s messages toward anyone, let alone those in its conquered territories, but for some reason, that contradiction never registers on the radars of most people in the western world.

    Isn’t that peculiar.

    Another thing that’s peculiar is that most people in the western world appear to hallucinate, quite in contradiction to how they envisage other nations, that Iran is in total lockstep with whatever a single person says and whatever that person says, why that must be the national sentiment, how could it be otherwise, in their minds; and these poor people hallucinate this without even consciously processing it. Whereas those self-same people see layers upon layers of opinion within almost every other country. For example those self-same people don’t hallucinate that all Zimbabweans think like Mugabe, they don’t even hallucinate that all North Koreans think like Jong Un, but they do precisely that with the President of Iran.

    Isn’t that peculiar.

    Well, not really if you understand media manipulation of collective [sub]consciousness, but I’m sure it’s peculiar to those who don’t understand that.

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  126. nasska (12,111 comments) says:

    Reid

    For all of what you wrote surely you would concede that most people have a predetermined position & seek facts & quotations that reinforce their views. For instance, imagine a hypothetical situation where Benjamin Netanyahu made a speech with a throw away line containing a promise to turn Iran into a sheet of glass.

    Can you honestly tell us that you would conduct a door to door survey of every house in Tel Aviv before you postulated that the man meant what he said?

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  127. RF (1,492 comments) says:

    I presume the low life scum dwellers who frequent the standard visit Kiwi Blog. I am unable to understand how these fuck wits call themselves Kiwis. The fact they are in bed with the green Taliban identifies them as nothing but communists who are trying to bring this country to its knees.

    May they all rot in hell.

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  128. Ross12 (1,488 comments) says:

    Longknives

    You can add Newstalk ZB to your list. Just heard earlier on the news the Green MP talking about the Waihopai vandals not being pushed for Court costs. The greenie said they had been exonerated by the court and ZB let it go. How could the Govt. lawyers have been considering going for costs if they had been exonerated. The Greens are just bloody liars on most things.

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  129. Reid (16,742 comments) says:

    surely you would concede that most people have a predetermined position & seek facts & quotations that reinforce their views

    nasska I’m a specialist in analytical philosophy and have been since my early twenties. Some thirty years on and having observed lots of life I concur with your perspective, but just because it’s a common practice doesn’t make it correct – either logically or psychologically. Philosophy, contrary to what many think, does not involve sitting in a mountain cave growing a beard, it is the science of thinking. It teaches one how to process not facts, but logic. And logic while it may produce a fallacious conclusion if the premises are incorrect, does not allow for emotion. One’s views are formed from a combination of emotion and fact and the foremost participant in any internal thinking process as any psychologist will explain, are not the facts, but the emotion. And emotion is desperately defended, since one’s ego is at stake. This is why political discussion is emotional, since each participant is convinced not only they are correct, but that they are righteously so.

    Do you think of Iran, Zimbabwe and NK as I described? I don’t expect you to answer but if you do, then IMO this means you’ve been influenced by the media memes. Of course you rationalise to yourself all sorts of “logical” bases for your perspective, lest you experience ego-damaging cognitive dissonance within your psyche. I postulate most of that thinking boils down to “almost all Muslims are insane and Iran is the worst of the bunch.” I know more is going on in you than just that short precis but does it boil down to approximately that? If so, I suggest you ask yourself: why do I think that?

    We have never met although as you know we have a mutual friend, but I’d suggest a possible answer to your “why” is because emotionally you cannot countenance a threat toward Israel. Again, ask yourself why.

    And so forth.

    That’s the approach nasska, if you wish to free yourself from the automaton programming inculcated in you and all of us via the media, through the items they select to report on, to the words they use to describe said items and most importantly, the emotional cues they deliver during said presentation.

    The reason it’s never worked on me is because philosophy teaches you how to separate emotion from logic and I’ve practised that all my life.

    It’s been a long, winding road but these days, I don’t need to ask Tel Aviv residents how they feel, because I don’t care – it’s not relevant to the question of: is Iran a threat. At least in the logical world, it’s not relevant. It’s very relevant of course in the emotional world the media has been busily meming everyone into re: Iran and it’s relative threat or otherwise to – gasp – Iswael. The very fact you asked that question is another why question to ask yourself.

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  130. mandk (1,033 comments) says:

    @ Ryan Sproull

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4thIsiCYqMg

    Piers Morgan tired and tried and tried to get the bloke to deny that it was Iran’s intention to wipe Israel off the map, but he wouldn’t. Just watch the interview and it will be clear.

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  131. nasska (12,111 comments) says:

    Reid

    All fair & reasoned comment but two points:

    1) ….”logic while it may produce a fallacious conclusion if the premises are incorrect, does not allow for emotion”….Maybe, in more cases than you think, the failure to regurgitate the “correct” answer lies in the info imputs rather than emotion. The old saw ‘garbage in, garbage out’ seems pertinent.

    2) ….”Do you think of Iran, Zimbabwe and NK as I described?”….. That would be a factor although the responsibilities associated with the self determination of the people as a group is the largest influence on the way I create an opinion. Both Zimbabwe & North Korea are ruled by long term dynasties of dictators. These despots have manipulated all the justice & electoral means for peaceful revolution & hold power very effectively at the point of a gun. The people have zero say.

    Iran goes through the motions of a form of democracy & it is possible to express a viewpoint contrary to that of the ruling Ayatollahs….at least until they can find an excuse to torture & kill whoever may be so bold. As such the population have a limited means of dissent…..the fact that they don’t indicates to me that their President’s proclamations are fairly much in step with those of the people he claims to represent.

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  132. Left Right and Centre (3,015 comments) says:

    We’re looking for a fully trade qualified and experienced specialist in analytical philosophy….

    No, I’ve never seen that anywhere either :)

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  133. nasska (12,111 comments) says:

    It was on the back page LR&C. :)

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  134. Left Right and Centre (3,015 comments) says:

    I wonder if people in Iran give a hoot about NZ’s poltical system ? Are they on ‘Iranblog’ battling it out for intellectual supremacy ?

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  135. nasska (12,111 comments) says:

    When the moon hits your eye, Like a big pizza pie,
    That’s amoré.

    When an eel bites your hand, And that’s not what you planned,
    That’s a moray.

    When your horse munches straw, And the bales total four,
    That’s some more hay.

    When a Japanese knight, Wields his sword in a fight,
    That’s Samurai.

    When your sheep go to graze, In a damp marshy place,
    That’s a moor, eh?

    When you ace your last tests, Like you did all the rest,
    That’s some more “A”s!

    When at Waitangi you see, An aborigine,
    That’s a Maori.

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  136. Left Right and Centre (3,015 comments) says:

    I’ve caught some gorgeous Foodwash on TV (sound muted naturally). Fridge.co.nz

    Who’s turn is it now ? Which vested interest is trying to sign you up ?

    Why it’s…. Dairy products !! Three serves a day. That’s good England to start with. Three servings ? Helpings ? Portions ?

    3 Dairy A Day – AOK. Mmmmm – very catchy.

    You don’t need animal products. Vegans don’t magically drop dead.

    It’s more bullshit lies about what people need to eat. What a pack of lying arseholes.

    I love their tasty treats for the lunchbox page. http://www.fridge.co.nz/tasty-treats-for-the-lunchbox/

    Look at all those fucking awesome ingredients for recipes. Lots of flour and sugar. Brilliant !!

    How many parents have got time to whip up those astronomic gastronomic atrocities, huh? Or know what a recipe is ?

    Pikelets, muffins, cupcakes and Greek yoghurt dip. Very healthy lunch choices for a child. What are they smoking mate ?

    And they say – these recipes are a great way of introducing fussy eaters to their unnecessary bullshit animal products. Good one losers !!

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  137. Steve (North Shore) (4,538 comments) says:

    Nasska,
    When you get hit with a jug
    in a South Auckland pub
    That’s a Hori

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  138. Jack5 (5,286 comments) says:

    Gump posted at 5.49: “So a single midwife delivers poor care, and you consider that an indictment against all midwives? “

    Midwives’ reintroduction was a victory for feminists. It was stupid because women will soon be the majority of doctors coming out of medical schools. Without the midwives change, NZ mothers would soon be able to choose care by fully educated women obstetricians rather than by just midwives.

    Here’s a view on midwives, a little dated (2010), but to show that some people think the reintroduction of midwives has been retrograde for NZ mothers and babies:

    There has been a recurring problem of midwives not calling for help when a delivery becomes complicated, resulting in distress for mothers and, sometimes, death for babies.

    Gump in another post in this thread expresses pride in Scotland legalising gay marriage. I bet Gump doesn't support Scotland's Catholic midwives in their stand against abortion.

    Some clippings on unease about midwives (as compared with obstetricians):

    http://mandenomusings.wordpress.com/2010/06/05/another-baby-killed-by-a-midwife/

    AND:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/3793293/First-midwife-in-bungled-birth-case-had-drug-issues

    AND MORE RECENT:

    http://www.scene.co.nz/queenstown-mums-horror-birth-subject-of-midwifes-alleged-misconduct/307077a1.page

    AND A COMPREHENSIVE LOOK:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10814952

    AND – Scots midwives’ stand on abortion

    http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2013/april/christian-midwives-win-abortion-fight-in-scotland.html

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  139. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    Jeeze Reid. I’ve sat up on top of various mountains, sheltered in the odd rock overhang, even grown a beard and thought I was becoming rather philosophical as the years flash by and now you tell me it’s all shit! :)

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  140. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    Waitangi Te Kawhai…….Fish, a wee sausage and a scoopfull of kumaras chipping away! :)

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  141. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    Evening minus! :)

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  142. Steve (North Shore) (4,538 comments) says:

    Ha! that was me Johnboy. I beat the minus – ahead of the first

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  143. MT_Tinman (3,322 comments) says:

    a fully trade qualified and experienced specialist in analytical philosophy

    Is that someone who has learnt to fold his own tinfoil hat?

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  144. wiseowl (980 comments) says:

    i know everyone scrolls past PG’s posts but I have to take him to task.

    The Treaty is NOT NOT NOT a partnership.!!!!!!

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  145. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/9689280/Obesity-link-to-economic-freedom-study

    Kim Jong Un……The exception that proves the rule! :)

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  146. Reid (16,742 comments) says:

    now you tell me it’s all shit

    Will anyone care or even remember in a hundred years Johnboy?

    Then, it almost certainly is shit.

    Sorry about that.

    This is why jokes are important.

    Maybe, in more cases than you think, the failure to regurgitate the “correct” answer lies in the info imputs rather than emotion.

    Yeah, but all humans are capable of a heck of a lot more than we think we are, and we sell ourselves short by handing over our thinking to those who wish to subconsciously manipulate us into anything. Think not just of how the most cultured and civilised nation in Europe got sucked into that in the 1930’s but also how Americans have allowed their leaders over the last two decades to tank that great nation. Same thing, different time, different place. And those are just two of many examples.

    That would be a factor although the responsibilities associated with the self determination of the people as a group is the largest influence on the way I create an opinion.

    So when Hulun was in power did you think her movement to push NZ away from our traditional allies and toward the non-aligned nations was a reflection of our national will? And if Key had continued that push for who knows what reason, do you think we as a people could or even would have done anything about it, if the media hadn’t raised a hue and cry, which they probably would not have, since they didn’t when Hulun started it? Most people on the street wouldn’t have even known it was happening. Why would Iran or any other country for that matter, be any different to us in terms of the variance between the street think and the political think?

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  147. Left Right and Centre (3,015 comments) says:

    Fat girl wants Disney to use fat princesses in their cartoons….

    I’m so sorry – the language of fatties in denial – ‘plus-size’. Trying to make ‘size elephant’ sound acceptable.

    Yeah, you don’t need to lose weight – you’re just ‘plus-size’. Sure.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/beauty/beauty-news/9688267/Teen-petitions-Disney-for-plus-size-princesses

    Young women are bombarded with the impossible ‘skinny standard’ and made to feel ugly. Fair enough if you’re not naturally stick thin. No excuse for being obese though. You are physically unattractive at the obesity level. If that’s ‘unfair’ well too bad, that’s the truth and no amount of PC pretending is going to change that. Quite rightly, no-one should produce a piece of entertainment that encourages a lifestyle of obesity using fat characters as ‘role models’.

    It’s the fat rights movement. American idiocy strikes again. They’ll do whatever it takes to gain acceptance, apart from diet and exercise.

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  148. MH (830 comments) says:

    What’s wrong with this country, Do we have to get Graham McCready to prosecute those wankers that destroyed defence ppty at Waihopi ? Is there nothing sacrosanct anymore,can a person sink one of HM’s NZ warships,down an Air force plane,shine lasers in the pilots eyes, because he she doesn’t agree with its function or intelligent gathering patrol capabilities which may involve radio monitoring of terrorist activities and passing that on to allies… Doesn’t seem to have raised much ire,we pragmatically accept- after all 12 ? jurors have said they were morally right to do wilful damage under some lame law which a limp judge allowed to be misinterpreted rather than guide them or at least dismiss the jury as being unsound. So we can burn down schools,and none takes responsibility ? These smug bastards have got away with murder,a deliberate and planned attack on govt ppty. I’d prosecute them to poverty levels and beyond,what message does it give,I can’t understand the Govt doing nix. Where’s our PM on this?

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  149. Reid (16,742 comments) says:

    Any guesses on this one?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2550486/Beloved-pop-star-abused-10-year-old-boy-Alleged-victim-witness-spoken-Savile-police-officers.html

    Anyone who’s been following Saville will know.

    Unless of course they’ve only been looking at the MSM.

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