General Debate 6 February 2014

February 6th, 2014 at 8:00 am by David Farrar
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99 Responses to “General Debate 6 February 2014”

  1. flash2846 (165 comments) says:

    I have a dream

    A dream where every New Zealander is held to the same rules and accepted etiquette

    A dream where every New Zealander contributes and pays his own way

    A dream where radicals and fanatics are treated universally with the contempt they deserve

    A dream where honest tax paying New Zealanders are treated with the respect THEY deserve

    Sadly this dream is just that – a dream

    As long as we tolerate eunuchs in government, allow activists to rule our country and happily provide a platform for welfare funded traitors to spout their diatribe New Zealand will continue to live in the past

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  2. peterwn (3,146 comments) says:

    flash – this is a left winger’s nightmare.

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  3. Yoza (1,524 comments) says:

    Can we be banned from commenting in certain threads? I have tried posting the following comment in the ‘Beyond the hyperbole’ thread: “So we can expect the US government to implement a reciprocal scheme where New Zealand’s IRD is allowed carte blanche access to the US bank accounts of suspected NZ tax dodgers.”

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  4. wreck1080 (3,725 comments) says:

    Sam Morgan throws his toys out the cot after real estate agencies dump trademe for increasing listing fees by 400%.

    It got me wondering if trademe will increase listing fees again this year. Listing fees always rise each year anyway as the value of goods are affected by inflation. But, this is not good enough for the greedies at trademe.

    I really hope trademe do increase their fees as at some point it allows for a competitor to enter the market.

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  5. wreck1080 (3,725 comments) says:

    @flash —

    -A dream where honest tax paying New Zealanders are treated with the respect THEY deserve

    So, those who pay no tax for genuine reasons get mocked and exiled?

    -A dream where every New Zealander contributes and pays his own way

    Yep, let the disabled and ill fend for themselves.

    While I hate bludgers as much as the next person, there are some cases where people genuinely cannot work but you seem not to care about these people from your manifesto.

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  6. Reid (15,917 comments) says:

    Gee I wonder if Stuff’s been saving this one up for Waitangi Day?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9690625/Express-way-spur-plan-sparks-protest

    Seriously, what kind of idiot media organ publishes a story like this on this day with the angle its taken clearly designed to embarrass the govt. That’s their obvious transparent intention.

    But freakin d’oh. The govt cannot possibly come to the party on this because of the precedent it would set all over the country. But Maori won’t see that, they won’t understand why it can’t. So what Stuff – der – have done on our national day, is not embarassed the govt but created a cancer that won’t go away and cannot be cured which they created only because the giggling idiots thought in their childish way it would be “clever” to embawess the govt. F..ing d’oh!

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  7. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Marae kaumatua Rihari Takuira said it was an “evolution” as women did not normally speak.

    ‘‘She is a leader and a very, very fine leader, secondly she is a Maori leader,’’ Takuira said.

    t was also notable for Green Party leader Metiria Turei becoming the first female politician to speak at the marae, where former prime minister Helen Clark was brought to tears when she was not allowed to speak in 1998.

    ============================
    A Leader?????
    Self promoting clothes horse.

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  8. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Trade me.
    Well Sam sold his toys and now he has to do his masters bidding.
    Amazing how quickly a capitalist becomes a bleeding heart entitled socialist isn’t it.
    Entitlement mentality and all.
    He should apply for Cunnliffes job.

    I am not aware of any law that says Real Estate agents have to buy Trademe advertising.

    Me thinks this is another IPO in trouble.
    Following many others and adopting Australian tactics to bully its customers.
    Trademe degraded itself by importing oversea’s sellers of new goods.
    People were pissed with that and went directly to better sources.

    Hardly ever go there now.

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  9. flash2846 (165 comments) says:

    wreck1080
    I think any intelligent person would exclude the disabled and ill, that is as long as the disabled and ill want to be excluded. If you think such people were somehow targeted you are deluded. When YOU work with the physically or mentally impaired perhaps then you will see they actually want to get better/normal if you like. As opposed to the many bludgers who don’t care at all.

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  10. Pete George (22,760 comments) says:

    After a blast at media by Rachel Smalley there was largely a uneventful day at Waitangi yesterday, apart from all the events enjoyed by those who attended. Some good coverage through the day by Katie Bradford, no headlines but closer to reality.

    So the rest of us can enjoy our day off without grumping over media grandstanding.

    Good coverage, good vibes at Waitangi.

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  11. Left Right and Centre (2,819 comments) says:

    Peter Rowley: ‘We had these conversations where I would ask him, “Are you going to have a tangi?’” He’d say, “Nah, I don’t want a bunch of Maoris gawking at me for a few days. Anyway, why should I have one of those? They never took any notice or helped me in my journey.”

    Other times I asked him, “How do you feel about the colonisation of this country?” He’d always say, “Thank God it was you guys who came along and not the Portugese, the Spanish or the French. But I wish my people would realise it’s a multicultural society and just bloody well get on with it.”

    – Billy T James; excerpt from ‘The Life and Times of Billy T James’ – Matt Elliott

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  12. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Lead item on Newstalkzb: “Tojo” with a party propaganda spiel. This radio station is as far left as Fairfax and APN. About time we had another player on the scene, they would cream advertising and stuff these leeches.

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  13. big bruv (13,218 comments) says:

    Welcome to national cringe day. The day where our left wing media try and force ‘national pride” down our throats.

    This day means nothing to me, it is not a national day. If anything it is a day of shame, a day where we are reminded that successive governments have done nothing about the high rate of Maori failure.

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  14. Steve (North Shore) (4,491 comments) says:

    Happy Birthday NEW ZEALAND. Don’t let the Racists spoil your celebrations

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  15. Dave Mann (1,168 comments) says:

    I’d like to wish everybody here a very happy Maori Moaning Day. I hope that wherever you are today you will take a few moments to consider the terrible injustices that have been meted out to the rightful owners of this land in the name of civilization, the rule of law and progress. As its obviously impractical for everybody to ‘go home’ at this late stage, the very least we can do on our national day is to show that we feel their pain and help them in any way we can to express it. Right?

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  16. Keeping Stock (10,095 comments) says:

    @ Pete George – I’m actually at Waitangi, and I can confirm that there were some grumpy media personalities yesterday with nothing more than a few mackerel to talk about. It’s wet and windy this morning, but everyone here is relaxed, and ready to enjoy the day without media beat-ups and political point-scoring.

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  17. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Ah, so now bruv its the govt’s fault is it?

    so while I agree that the govt. meddles surely its ones personal responsibility to arrange ones lifes affairs to succeed.

    Apart from telling Hori’s to not commit crime, beat up their families and try to be nice to others how is it the the Govt. has stopped Maori from doing what most other Kiwi’s manage.
    Indeed we have given them choices, money, handups and opportunities that people from other countries never get.

    So, back to the question. why is it the govt.’s fault?

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  18. Pete George (22,760 comments) says:

    @ Keeping Stock – good on you for having at look at Waitangi to see what it’s actually like. It will be interesting to hear your overall impressions afterwards.

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  19. Sofia (817 comments) says:

    Waitangi Day mourning Sadly this dream is just that – a dream

    New Afghanistan law to silence victims of violence against women
    Small change to criminal code has huge consequences in country where ‘honour’ killings and forced marriage are rife

    Most violence against women in Afghanistan is within the familly, so the new law means it will be impossible to prosecute cases.

    A new Afghan law will allow men to attack their wives, children and sisters without fear of judicial punishment, undoing years of slow progress in tackling violence in a country blighted by so-called “honour” killings, forced marriage and vicious domestic abuse.
    The small but significant change to Afghanistan’s criminal prosecution code bans relatives of an accused person from testifying against them. Most violence against women in Afghanistan is within the family, so the law – passed by parliament but awaiting the signature of the president, Hamid Karzai – will effectively silence victims as well as most potential witnesses to their suffering.

    Under the new law, prosecutors could never come to court with cases like that of Sahar Gul, a child bride whose in-laws chained her in a basement and starved, burned and whipped her when she refused to work as a prostitute for them. Women like 31-year-old Sitara, whose nose and lips were sliced off by her husband at the end of last year, could never take the stand against their attackers.
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/04/afghanistan-law-victims-violence-women

    Please think for about one, maybe two, seconds as you hit the thumbs down

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  20. Colville (2,062 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/agribusiness/9690533/Exports-hurt-local-timber-industry

    Labour forestry spokesman Shane Jones said it was “madness that in a country with large pine forests there is a shortage of logs”.

    “Sawmillers have orders to fill but simply can’t do it as twice the number of logs processed here are sent overseas,” he said.

    “New Zealand sawmillers should be given priority for the Christchurch rebuild. That’s what Labour will do.”

    What a wanker! All the NZ sawmillers need to do is put a bigger number on the chq they write out and the logs will flood into the mills. Are Labour going to force forest owners to take a loss so builders can make more profit building houses in the comming boom?

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  21. Pete George (22,760 comments) says:

    Duncan Garner heard this clip in our 4pm news

    “I think the metaphor today was the tui speaking before the dawn, the song of the tui was resonant around the building, and that a sense that a new dawn is coming for New Zealand.”

    … and is asking listeners “what does this Cunliffe clip mean”?

    I didn’t hear the answers? Is it that well known Tui response?

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  22. hj (6,343 comments) says:

    Mr Bouncy -bouncy weatherman was asked what it means to be NZr…. didnt know…… Our common British heritage….

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  23. big bruv (13,218 comments) says:

    V2

    Why is it the governments fault?

    Simple, because they keep pandering to the racists and the left. A government that was serious about addressing Maori failure would stop treating Maori as special people, they would let Maori know in no uncertain terms that the days of using their race as an excuse for failure are over.

    But, you knew all that anyway V2.

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  24. Andrei (2,499 comments) says:

    Whoops

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  25. Pete George (22,760 comments) says:

    Andrei – Key responded to that edited video clip – http://yournz.org/2014/02/04/key-responds-to-dotcoms-data-deletion-allegation/

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  26. Nukuleka (201 comments) says:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2552081/Boy-six-suspended-school-taking-packet-Mini-Cheddars-lunchbox-EXPELLED-parents-vented-outrage-press.html

    Maybe what we are in for once the Greens implement their version of healthy lunch policy for schools.

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  27. Pete George (22,760 comments) says:

    Mr Bouncy -bouncy weatherman was asked what it means to be NZr…. didnt know…… Our common British heritage….

    There’s a lot of heritage here other than British. And increasingly so.

    I happened to attend a citizenship ceremony yesterday where there were about forty new New Zealanders. Of that forty there was three British, one Irish, four Canadian (one family). There were probably about fifteen countries represented with most being non-British.

    While I have British ancestry to me the British are a bunch of other people on the other side of the world.

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  28. Left Right and Centre (2,819 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9690621/Shoplifter-used-self-service-till

    Shoplifter steals $1 053.42 worth of groceries. Four days later another $907.82 worth.

    She told police she had stolen the items as she did not have money to buy food.

    So how much do you need to steal to have food ? $2 000 worth across four days ? $500 per day to survive… huh ? Nah – that’s just thieving. Criminal excuses – my goodness.

    This went through a self-checkout. All the items have to fit onto the packing area which is a set of scales. They’re usually a bit precious and often require assistance if upset to continue on. How she managed to perch that much on the scales without drawing any attention to herself I don’t know. $1 053 worth would be an insane heap of items – it would surely draw attention and to even fit a pile like that I thought would be mission impossible.

    Self-checkouts have an item limit – why didn’t they pay more attention to a shopper with a big stack of items going through self-checkout ? They should have been asking her why she didn’t go through an operated chechout. Sure – they got her the second time but it should really have been the first time. You even start to wonder about insider help with kickbacks at that point it seems so obvious.

    What the supermarkets really need is a fail-safe indicator of when payment has been made or not made that is easily visible to the self-checkout supervisor from ten metres away. I suppose when you start saving thousands of dollars in staff wages with self-checkouts – you’re not too worried about the occasional shoplifter on a shopping spree. I hope that bitch was banned from the shop at least.

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  29. Tom Jackson (2,458 comments) says:

    I have a dream

    A dream where every New Zealander is held to the same rules and accepted etiquette

    A dream where every New Zealander contributes and pays his own way

    A dream where radicals and fanatics are treated universally with the contempt they deserve

    A dream where honest tax paying New Zealanders are treated with the respect THEY deserve

    Sadly this dream is just that – a dream

    Sounds like it’s cribbed from the German Workers’ Party manifesto.

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  30. Tom Jackson (2,458 comments) says:

    A government that was serious about addressing Maori failure would stop treating Maori as special people

    If they didn’t pick out Maori, how could they address Maori failure?

    Oh, I know, Maori failure will magically be solved if we do nothing!

    Cool story bro.

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  31. Reid (15,917 comments) says:

    Are Labour going to force forest owners to take a loss so builders can make more profit building houses in the coming boom?

    You’ve touched on an interesting phenomena Colville. By the mores of past societies like say, the generation that was in charge during WWII, it would have been crazy not to log our own trees even if the prices were higher overseas. To that generation, there were more important things than money, intangible things like patriotism and heroism to name two.

    But that generation is pushing up daisies now and their children are now in charge of the world and shaping opinion to suit their temperament. Bear in mind what the baby boomers represent. A generation (of which I’m one, at the very tail end), which has been called the most selfish generation in history.

    Like a pack locusts we have moved through history wrecking havoc, firstly having a mass rebellion against the mores of our parents during the sixties and did whatever felt good, forget about morality. Then we moved onto the material obsession which led us into the free market revolution in the early 1980′s. Then we had today’s twenty somethings and taught them what we knew about morality and ethics which has resulted in a generation who want to be paid $100k straight out of university, don’t want to sacrifice for anything except money, sleep around like crazy, just like we started doing, and do all the drugs you’ve ever heard of and then some, without thought of consequence. Most of us won’t leave an inheritance to our children, instead we’ll spend it all on ourselves before we die, because those are the values we’ve displayed all our lives.

    Now, the whole world admires people not because they’re good, but because they’re wealthy. The whole world views success in material terms, not in spiritual values.

    Of course there are exceptions to this, and we all sit somewhere along the continuum of the traits I mention – some of us do all of those and more and others of us do none of it. But the mean has shifted over the decades away from the spiritual and toward the material and you have to ask yourself as you survey the world and all that its become and will become, is that a good thing or a bad thing?

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  32. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/04/kenneth-haskins-apartment-fire-masturbation_n_4724538.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009

    No wonder he set fire to the apartments, imagine being asked to stop masturbating in front of your windows, surely he had a “right” to do this.

    There is a photo of the guy showing severe disfigurement , he shot himself in the face with a shotgun years ago, so if you don’t like that don’t look

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  33. Reid (15,917 comments) says:

    Andrei – Key responded to that edited video clip

    The real question Pete is whether it was a good response, not whether or not he responded.

    Frankly, if particular meta-data is relevant to court proceedings, which it appears to have been, then it’s a pretty dumb statute if “Raw intelligence has to actually, by law, age off the system if it’s no longer relevant or required…,” isn’t it.

    And what’s the bet that actually, the definition of being “relevant and required” really actually does include anything that IS subject to court proceedings.

    But one notes you didn’t mention any of that, in your repetition of Key’s press release. You’re not secretly a Stuff journalist by any chance, are you Pete?

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  34. kowtow (7,585 comments) says:

    Paul Henry joins the Waitangi surrender cheese monkeys.

    On his show last night he told the cub reporter Jesse Peach that he had to witness the dawn something or other there ,on his bucket list.

    paul showing his new masters he really did get the principles of the treaty memo that he must have signed in order to be brought in from oblivion.

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  35. Colville (2,062 comments) says:

    Jesus Reid, 400 hundred words of complete touchy feelie waffle.
    I suggest a teaspoon of cement in your coffee and you harden the fuck up! :-)

    Also, you obviously know SFA about trees, NZ cannot process all our own trees we just dont have the mills or markets, and we cannot sustain mills in an international downturn. We really only use the A grade saw logs (small knots) for framing timber and a bit of pruned stuff for clears. China is buying everything right down to what was sent to the pulp mill just to get rid of it.

    Good times if you happen to own a few thousand (or few hundred thousand) pines.

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  36. OneTrack (2,578 comments) says:

    “Happy Birthday NEW ZEALAND. Don’t let the Racists spoil your celebrations”

    Waitangi Day isnt the birthday of New Zealand. It’s just maori grievance day (pretty much like ever other day).

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  37. peterwn (3,146 comments) says:

    wreck1080 – Trademe has what Warren Buffett calls a ‘durable competitive advantage’ and is therefore one that Warren would seriously consider for investment if he were in NZ. It would need to be the sort of thing where the advantage is anticipated last at least 20 years. The trick in running this sort of company is to charge as much as possible short of driving the customer base to any competition. So even if Wheedle etc do make some headway, they are unlikely to entice too many of Trademe’s customers. For example Trademe got sufficiently well established in NZ, that when Ebay considered entering the NZ market, they found their potential customer base was with Trademe and likely to stay there.

    While Sam Morgan may be perceived as throwing the toys out of the cot, he is actually taking effective action to quell a coordinated walkout by some real estate agents by going over their heads and offering free advertising to the vendors whose agents are boycotting Trademe. So Sam is ensuring Trademe retains its ‘durable competitive advantage’.

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  38. Pete George (22,760 comments) says:

    Reid – I put alternate views to balance a previous post. That allows anyone who reads them to make up their own mind up about what they think.

    I think Key made a fair point, he was referring to a specific situation (the alleged video recording) and not to all metadata accumulated by the GCSB. If they haven’t analysed and reported on raw metadata it’s going to mean little if anything. I presume they don’t have time to examine everything in detail.

    Do you think they should retain absolutely everything? That doesn’t seem practical.

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  39. RF (1,263 comments) says:

    Pinch me I must be dreaming. I have heard the smarmy prick cunliffe on ZB radio telling John Key that he must be firm and not roll over when he has talks with the Aussie PM about the inequality of Kiwis living in Australia. He made it sound as if it was Nationals fault.

    FFS In 2001 the Labour Govt were in power and rolled over allowing the Howard Govt to introduce the restrictive legislation. Guess who was in Cabinet at the time. The Silent T. What a forked tongued tosser.

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  40. Steve (North Shore) (4,491 comments) says:

    One track.
    To me today is New Zealands’ Birthday. I do not give a shit about Moari grievances

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  41. peterwn (3,146 comments) says:

    Left right and centre – Pak’n’Save has two self checkout systems – one for small quantities with scales, and one where the customer carries round a scanner and scans each item as she puts it in the basket. They do random audits on the latter. Seems she simply returned the scanner and walked out looking as if she has paid.

    With the ‘scales’ one, make sure the goods are not touching the rear or side of the weighing ‘well’ or it will under-weigh. Very small batteries do not register and need assistance. There are a few vulnerabilities that can be exploited.

    By the way it would be no joke to be trespassed from a local supermarket for two years for shoplifting especially if there is not another one nearby.

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  42. kowtow (7,585 comments) says:

    The PM had pretty heavy duty security in the from of body guards going into the Lower Marae yesterday.

    If the occasion is such a joy and celebration why is that necessary.

    What other event in Aotearoa ,formerly New Zealand requires our PM to need so much protection ?

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  43. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    peterwn (2,745 comments) says:
    February 6th, 2014 at 10:12 am

    wreck1080 – Trademe has what Warren Buffett calls a ‘durable competitive advantage’ and is therefore one that Warren would seriously consider for investment if he were in NZ. It would need to be the sort of thing where the advantage is anticipated last at least 20 years. The trick in running this sort of company is to charge as much as possible short of driving the customer base to any competition. So even if Wheedle etc do make some headway, they are unlikely to entice too many of Trademe’s customers. For example Trademe got sufficiently well established in NZ, that when Ebay considered entering the NZ market, they found their potential customer base was with Trademe and likely to stay there.

    While Sam Morgan may be perceived as throwing the toys out of the cot, he is actually taking effective action to quell a coordinated walkout by some real estate agents by going over their heads and offering free advertising to the vendors whose agents are boycotting Trademe. So Sam is ensuring Trademe retains its ‘durable competitive advantage’.
    ========================

    He has actually gone further than that. There are complaints to the Com Com about the agents walking. ( A right which is theirs to choose.) If and it is an IF their customers don’t like the fact they are no longer on TM then their customers have a right to go to another agency who does. Simple enough. If a TM listing was part of the original sign up then the customer has a legitimate expectation that they can cancel their agency.

    I would say that it will get rid of agencies who list properties and allow them to remain there forever. Plenty of that goes on.
    So listings will be more selective and up to current.

    I know of agencies that have never used TM.

    What does irk me about TM is that say you want to place an employment advert, then the option is a full month. Most job adverts would require a week but no we have to pay for a month.

    He’s just as bad as his old man. Spoilt little rich kid who threw his toys just as soon as someone disagreed with his entitlement mentality.

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  44. Ross12 (1,144 comments) says:

    Cunliffe and Labour bull shitting again

    http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/21293178/key-needs-to-harden-up-over-kiwis-in-oz-cunliffe/

    Cunliffe should know that one of the main reasons the issue is as it is, is because of the deal Helen Clark did with the Aussies
    ( and she probably had few other options at the time)

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  45. RF (1,263 comments) says:

    Ross12.

    Yep.. Cunliffe is full of shit.

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  46. stephieboy (2,154 comments) says:

    Steve , New Zealand’s Birthday.?
    Err, or should that be the white man’s birthday.?

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  47. OneTrack (2,578 comments) says:

    “I have heard the smarmy prick cunliffe on ZB radio telling John Key that he must be firm and not roll over when he has talks with the Aussie PM about the inequality of Kiwis living in Australia.”

    He is hoping that Key will piss off the Australians so much that they cancel the Kiwi visa legislation and then Kiwis wont have as many bolt holes to run to when the Labour/Green/Mana hydra takes power. He thinks he might still need some nett taxpayers.

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  48. Fletch (6,004 comments) says:

    New allegations that Bill Clinton flew Liz Hurley to the Whitehouse when he was president to have sex, and that they had a year long fling.

    Yes, it’s the Mirror, so you might have to take it with a grain of salt, although the information comes straight from Tom Sizemore (Hurley’s ex) in recorded audio (see bottom of page to play it).

    The astonishing claim comes after a tape of the actress’s former boyfriend Tom Sizemore was found describing how he set Hurley, 48, up with the Clinton following a private screening of Saving Private Ryan at the White House in 1998 – scroll down for the audio.

    According to Radar Online the meeting was arranged after Clinton asked Sizemore, 52, if he was still in touch with his former girlfriend. 

    When the actor said he was, Clinton said: “You got her number don’t you?”

    Actor Sizemore, who appeared in the Steven Spielberg film, said yes. “He then takes his phone out and goes ‘Give it to me?’” explained Sizemore. 

    In audio recording obtained by the US website, the actor said he perhaps should ask Hurley first if he can give out her number to which Clinton replies “You dumb mother******. I’m the Commander-in-Chief of the United States of America. The buck stops here. Give me the damn number.” 

    When he called her, she at first appeared coy but Clinton charmed her saying: “Listen Elizabeth, this is the President. I don’t have any time for the ****. I’m keeping the world from nuclear war all the time. I’m sending a plane to pick you up”. 

    Sizemore claimed it was the first night they politician and actress slept together. 

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/elizabeth-hurley-affair-president-clinton-3113958

    It’s not surprising is it.

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  49. Reid (15,917 comments) says:

    Do you think they should retain absolutely everything? That doesn’t seem practical.

    Pete how on Earth could you possibly read that into what I said? What about: the definition of “relevant” includes meta-data subject to court proceedings; don’t you understand? How could you possibly read into that, that I’m suggesting everything be retained?

    ???

    I think Key made a fair point, he was referring to a specific situation (the alleged video recording) and not to all metadata accumulated by the GCSB. If they haven’t analysed and reported on raw metadata it’s going to mean little if anything. I presume they don’t have time to examine everything in detail.

    What? You mean the video of him at GCSB? I didn’t read that into his response Pete, since a video recording is not meta-data and his statement referred to meta-data, so I naturally assumed he was referring to meta-data and not that video. And I don’t think Dotcom was complaining about the video, either. I think he was also referring to the aged-off meta-data.

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  50. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    The left-wing editorial bias of “Manawatu Standard” has taken a new turn. They are now condoning shoplifting and berating shop owners for apprehending thieves . . . no wonder they have near zilch advertisers, and diminishing readership. Hopefully they will be the first Fairfax daily to get out of our lives.

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  51. Steve (North Shore) (4,491 comments) says:

    stephieboy.
    “Steve , New Zealand’s Birthday.?
    Err, or should that be the white man’s birthday.?”
    All New Zealanders mate, all of the multicultural New Zealanders. Moari are not SPECIAL and should not be treated as such.
    I would like to see more from the Asian Community, European and Afrikaans celebrating this day, for those who have immigrated this is now also their home.

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  52. MH (624 comments) says:

    Perhaps it all evaporated when those protestors pricked that cheap balloon where they keep all those conversation “thoughts” down at Waihopai.

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  53. bc (1,332 comments) says:

    Flash, maybe you should move to North Korea where your “dream” may come to fruition.
    Your dream sounds like a dictatorship to me.
    “Fanatics and raddicals” is a small price to pay for democracy and freedom of speech.

    Pretty tacky ripping off Martin Luther King’s incredible speech too!

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  54. kowtow (7,585 comments) says:

    steve north shore

    Multi ethnic yes , multicultural no.

    And that’s the point.If we accept multiculturalism then all those cultures are as valid and equal to New Zealand’s.So we must celebrate Chinese new year,diwali,satans birthday,July 4 and 14,paddies,georges,davids and andrews days,mandelas circumcsion,Mugabes first million etc. in an equal way to whatever day New Zealand decides is “our” day.

    Nope .

    If individuals or groups of individual citizens chose to celebrate their own cultures privately that’s their own business and all well and good. But no taxpayer or rate payer money should go to it and there should be no official recognition of same.

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  55. Fletch (6,004 comments) says:

    A group has just reviewed the 4 main studies that underline the claims that there is a 97% consensus of scientists on climate change and which the Left quotes all the time. They have found that, actually, only 1% – 3% of scientists “explicitly agree” that climate change is man-made – NOT 97%

    The main pillar of the warmist argument is the contention that a “consensus” exists among scientists that global warming is caused by man and threatens catastrophe. But a Canada-based group calling itself Friends of Science has just completed a review of the four main studies used to document the alleged consensus and found that only 1 – 3% of respondents “explicitly stated agreement with the IPCC declarations on global warming,” and that there was “no agreement with a catastrophic view.”

    “These ‘consensus’ surveys appear to be used as a ‘social proof,’” says Ken Gregory, research director of Friends of Science. “Just because a science paper includes the words ‘global climate change’ this does not define the cause, impact or possible mitigation. The 97% claim is contrived in all cases.”

    The Oreskes (2004) study claimed 75% consensus and a “remarkable lack of disagreement” by the other 25% of the abstracts she reviewed. Peiser (2005) re-ran her survey and found major discrepancies. Only 1.2% or 13 scientists out of 1,117 agreed with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) view that human activity is the main cause of global warming since 1950.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2014/02/debunking_the_97_consensus_on_global_warming.html

    http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/02/prweb11550514.htm

    http://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/97_Consensus_Myth.pdf

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  56. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    If individuals or groups of individual citizens chose to celebrate their own cultures privately that’s their own business and all well and good. But no taxpayer or rate payer money should go to it and there should be no official recognition of same.

    Kowtow, great idea !

    No official recognition of your bronze age desert cult and no public money squandered on it either.

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  57. nasska (10,622 comments) says:

    Why do we bother going through the bullshit charade of ‘Waitangi Day’ where we pretend that we’re united as one people under Te Tiriti? Rename it as ‘Go to the Beach Day’ or ‘Clear up the Section Day’ & leave the Harawiras & their divisive scum mates to throw fish around & dream up some new way to milk ‘Whitey’.

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  58. Southern Raider (1,539 comments) says:

    Interesting article in the media about Key trying to motivate Ngapuhi to start and finish the settlement process so they can move on and get some economic stimulus into Northland.

    Let’s be honest. You drive 20km from the eastern beaches in northland and all the rest is a shit hole, filled with unemployed Maori who have no motivation to better themselves or their communities.

    The reason is the Ngapuhi leadership (if you can call it that). The same article has a response from one of the elders who states they won’t be pushed into starting the settlement process, don’t even have a unified voice and let alone can agree who should actually lead the negotiations. Plus they a preset expectation of 4 times what any other tribe has got to date.

    These “leader” should be locked up for improvising their people and in many cases causing indirect child abuse. You just have to look at what Ngai Tahu and Tainui have achieved by moving on the flow on benefits.

    If we are to retain Waitangi Day move it to Canterbury where at least you can see some positive Maori achievement

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  59. MH (624 comments) says:

    yes,would have been good to see Len and Bevan there,wreckansliding.

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  60. dirty harry (416 comments) says:

    Yeah chuck some more of my money at them…that’ll keep ‘em quiet for a bit.

    Fool.

    http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8794982/key-urges-ngapuhi-to-unite-for-settlement

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  61. dirty harry (416 comments) says:

    anyhoo..off to work..double time and day in lieu , thanks very much ” waitungi day “..muwhahahahahaha!

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  62. edhunter (491 comments) says:

    It’s all Muldoon’s fault
    In 1971 the Labour shadow minister of Māori Affairs, Matiu Rata, introduced a private member’s bill to make Waitangi Day a national holiday, to be called New Zealand Day. This was not passed into law. After the 1972 election of the third Labour government under Norman Kirk, it was announced that from 1974 Waitangi Day would be a national holiday known as New Zealand Day. The New Zealand Day Act 1973 was passed in 1973.
    For Norman Kirk, the change was simply an acceptance that New Zealand was ready to move towards a broader concept of nationhood. Diplomatic posts had for some years marked the day, and it seemed timely in view of the country’s increasing role on the international stage that the national day be known as New Zealand Day. At the 1974 celebrations, the Flag of New Zealand was flown for the first time at the top of the flagstaff at Waitangi, rather than the Union Flag, and a replica of the flag of the United Tribes of New Zealand was also flown.
    The election of the third National government in 1975 led to the day being renamed Waitangi Day because the new Prime Minister, Robert Muldoon, did not like the name “New Zealand Day” and many Māori felt the new name debased the Treaty of Waitangi.[3] Another Waitangi Day Act was passed in 1976 to change the name of the day back to Waitangi Day.

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  63. Southern Raider (1,539 comments) says:

    Read the Daily Mail article about massive tube strikes in London and the chaos it is causing mid winter.

    Strike was called by railway’s union boss because of plans to close a whole lot of ticket offices to get efficiencies and save money.

    Issue is this cock is on a beach in Rio while the strike is going in and has admitted never using ticket offices because he has an Oyster card!

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  64. Rowan (1,778 comments) says:

    Time for Hesson to drop Fulton and Rutherford, they are nothing but a cancer to the side, 19 runs between them is pathetic, Replace with Guptill and Ryder, shift B Mac up to open the innings. Also don’t see any logic in the continued selection of Wagner.

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  65. stephieboy (2,154 comments) says:

    nasska , Waitangi Day a great one to have a whinge and a cringe.?
    What else could there be.?
    Get a life.!
    Kea , bronze age desert cult.? You must be referring to the Palestinians..
    Surely.?

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  66. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    Take a tour of the SR-71 Blackbird cockpit with former pilot Richard Graham.

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  67. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    Fun times in Sochi.

    http://www.interpretermag.com/the-48-hour-dash-liveblog/

    http://www.businessinsider.com.au/sochi-hotel-photos-2014-2

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  68. Reid (15,917 comments) says:

    The smart money was predicting in November a US market crash in Q1 of this year. I agree.

    http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-stock-market-in-japan-is-collapsing

    What is wrong with analysts who do this for a living, that every single time they miss it? They missed 1987, they missed 2007 and they’re missing this coming one, too. As I said in December, the only reason the Dow is doing well is because the companies are engaging in share buyback schemes at the cost of investing in new plant. This boosts the share price which is why the executives are doing it, since the boards continually fail to recognise other measures of performance.

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  69. Manolo (13,330 comments) says:

    Labour Lite is trying to buy the Stone Ager’s silence, but for how long?

    Prime Minister John Key is proposing an up-front payment to Ngapuhi to try and speed up their Treaty settlement.

    The iwi is the country’s largest and one of its leaders wants at least $500 million in order to reflect that but Key, who denied he was undermining the settlement process by putting an offer on the table before there was a mandate to negotiate, said that’s unrealistic.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9690889/Key-proposes-Treaty-payment-but-quiet-on-amount

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  70. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Special News Bulletin: “Tojo” rolled up his pants and helped a waka . . . what a crock, about as good as Weasel Goff, suit pants and all, shovelling sand at Tauranga Rena spill. Do these lefties orchestrate these pathetic ideas or what?

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  71. hj (6,343 comments) says:

    Pete George (20,880 comments) says:
    February 6th, 2014 at 9:17 am

    There’s a lot of heritage here other than British. And increasingly so.

    I happened to attend a citizenship ceremony yesterday where there were about forty new New Zealanders. Of that forty there was three British, one Irish, four Canadian (one family). There were probably about fifteen countries represented with most being non-British.

    While I have British ancestry to me the British are a bunch of other people on the other side of the world.
    ……………………………………………………
    How can heritage be “increasingly so”?

    Being a New Zealander (to me) is a life spent in New Zealand (the longer the more so). The current cult of multicultural “enrichment” aside, it is a sense of belonging to a common history and heritage: the great grandparents and grandparents and their talk of ‘the old country”. Big Ben, Dick Whittington, the battle of waterloo, colonisation, breaking in the land, the liberal government, red feds vs farmers, the quarter acre section, free milk in schools, the A& P Show etc. Being away from the rest of the world and a sense that New Zealand is “ours”.
    Today it would be not be PC to espouse those values as colonisation is bad (eg) as veronica meduca(?) chuckled on Asian Report “they (Asian Migrants) didn’t do what was done to the Maoris!” and in upper circles there seems to be capital in aligning yourself with a world culture (it shows you’re a cut above the rest).

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  72. hj (6,343 comments) says:

    Did anyone see the stoush over coca cola at the supa bowl?

    The premise was simple. Entitled “It’s Beautiful”, the advert featured scenes from American life set against the theme tune of “ America the Beautiful”, which was sung in a variety of languages to celebrate the nation’s cultural diversity.

    Individuals featured in the footage represented the melting pot that is the United States. One of the vignettes also depicted what are said to be the first gay parents shown in a Super Bowl ad.

    But this celebration of multiplicity sparked anger on social media, as users questioned why an officially English-speaking country should advertise in other languages.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/a-racist-response-cocacolas-multicultural-super-bowl-ad-infuriates-twitter-users-9103853.html

    This is a silly issue: where we are lead to believe a basic premise that diversity is good. I’m not saying we should all be one religion or gays should be heterosexual but the idea is betrayed when they talk about America being a melting pot. In the past it was a melting pot as eventually people embraced a common language and (broadly) a set of values. Now they are celebrating a lack of commonality.

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  73. hj (6,343 comments) says:

    Pete George reminds me of the old type toilet paper in a box: someone would write BA’s Please take one“. “ New Zealand ID. Please take one.
    You’re a shallow bugger Pete George. Ideal UF stuff.

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  74. hj (6,343 comments) says:

    The Greens have an albatross around their necks being commited to the indigenous language version of the treaty of Waitangi. By using an oil protest hikoi at Waitangi they appear to be using the idea found in the Idle no more Movement that indigenous people have original rights over the land and a deeper set of values. This combines te tiritti with environmentalism but it doesn’t define who those indigenous people represent and it marginalises and insults non Maori. Bit of a problem that women don’t perform a powhiri on the marae when meteria Turie needs to speak.. oh well (Maori culture is magical and meaningful no more) we can soon change that.
    https://www.greens.org.nz/node/31539
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idle_No_More

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  75. Colville (2,062 comments) says:

    I hope Corey Anderson makes a good fist of today. (and tomorro)

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  76. hj (6,343 comments) says:

    The Greens claim to combine social justice with environmentalism: “there can be no ecological wisdom without social justice” (or other forgettable jargon). This is how the left claim ownership of environmental issues.
    They are protesting oil drilling but squeal when hillary calvert questions their use of cars to drive to protests “but we need our cars”. It is o.k to drill elsewhere. If they are serious about using oil, attack tourism since it is a wasteful frivolous activity. Tourism employs 1 in 10 people , however and that would put a lot of people out of work and create a knock-on effect. The latter demonstrates the folly of saying “there can be no ecological wisdom without social justice”?
    In case that is a straw man argument they also say there should be a “just distribution of resources”. Unfortunately geology is unjust and they say we ( “rich countries”)should use less; in which case they should attack the tourist industry (and put a lot of people out of work)?

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  77. nickb (3,658 comments) says:

    Lol ho downticked Colville?

    I agree. Great knocks from Williamson and McCullum so far…

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  78. nasska (10,622 comments) says:

    stephieboy @ 1.15pm

    ….”Waitangi Day a great one to have a whinge and a cringe”….

    A “whinge” is mild considering the circumstances. The Governor General’s welcome onto the marae is held up while one of the scum Harawiras bleats on about something…..then John Key, in his role of Prime Minister, gets insulted & fish dumped in front of him. The Waitangi “celebrations” should be boycotted & the ungracious rabble who use the occasion for dissent left alone to throw their toys without the publicity they seek.

    As for “cringe” I’ll leave that up to the sickly white liberals who think that appeasement will buy peace & conciliation. Look around you & see the Harawiras, the Sykes & Turias with their snouts buried in the grievance trough. For them & the discontented separatists who will replace them nothing they gain will ever be enough.

    They laugh at the weakness of the appeasers & demand more.

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  79. stephieboy (2,154 comments) says:

    If you won’t to do something more than whinge and moan about Waitangi as per above then i can highly recommend this interview by Filmmaker Jonathan Demme interviewing another one Werner Herzog ,arguably one of the greatest this or of the last century.
    He comes across not only as a great and highly imaginative and original artist/ filmmaker but as a warm ,humble and great humanitarian with a great sense of humour.
    Enjoy please,

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  80. Longknives (4,411 comments) says:

    So if I turn up for Waitangi next year with scribble all over my face, poke my tongue out and throw some fish at the Prime Minister will I get my half a billion? Seems like great work if you can get it…

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  81. Colville (2,062 comments) says:

    sheesh…tough crowd…

    down ticked for wishing an international sportsman a good run!

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  82. Pete George (22,760 comments) says:

    Patrick Gower’s poll posturing can now be thrown out the window. The latest Roy Morgan poll:

    National (47%, up 3.5%)
    Maori Party 1.5% (down 0.5%)
    United Future 0% (down 0.5%)
    ACT NZ 0% (unchanged)

    Labour Party 33% (down 0.5%)
    Greens have fallen to 11% (down 1.5%)
    New Zealand First 4.5% (up 0.5%)
    Mana Party 1% (up 0.5%)

    Conservative Party 2.5% (down 1%)
    Internet Party 0.5%

    This latest New Zealand Roy Morgan Poll on voting intention was conducted by telephone – both landline and mobile telephone, with a NZ wide cross-section of 846 electors from January 20 – February 2, 2014. Of all electors surveyed 4% (unchanged) didn’t name a party.

    Polling was up to the weekend so covered last week when Cunliffe and Labour laboured with their Best Start baby handout pledge and banning Facebook, and when Turei began her “my castle is off limits but here it is, and here it is again” (down 1.5%)

    National bounce back up 3.5%.

    The first time for the Internet Party to appear in a poll, too earlier to deduce much from that.

    NZ First up but not as much (a move of 0.5% could be a change of a couple or a few responses).

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  83. RF (1,263 comments) says:

    PG… Re the Roy Morgan poll. Was there ever any doubt that the TV3 one was a rogue poll.

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  84. Colville (2,062 comments) says:

    Gweens down to 11% *dances happy dance*

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  85. nasska (10,622 comments) says:

    Colville

    Not only the Greens down but the CCCP have shed a few more nutters from the muster.

    2014 is looking good. :)

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  86. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Yesterday, scientists in the United States revealed that beer contains small traces of female hormones.

    To prove their theory, they fed one hundred men twelve pints of beer and observed that 100% of them started talking nonsense and couldn’t drive.

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  87. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    A seal walks into a bar and asks the bartender for a drink.

    The bartender asks the seal, “What’s your pleasure?”

    The seal replies, “Anything but Canadian Club.”

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  88. Pete George (22,760 comments) says:

    RF – hard to deduce that, this Roy Morgan has moved quite a bit for National since their last one two weeks ago. It’s early in the year, a lot of people still on the move and busy settling into the working year and school year.

    So I wouldn’t say the 3 News poll was a rogue but Paddy’s posturing was a bit roguish.
    See 3 News poll – Paddy plays king-maker.

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  89. Pete George (22,760 comments) says:

    Typical responses at The Standard – they had a post up about the 3 News poll at 6.05 pm on Sunday so must have posted as they watched it.

    So far nothing on the Roy Morgan poll even in comments.

    You can sometimes read as much into what isn’t commented on as what is commented on.

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  90. Colville (2,062 comments) says:

    nasska.
    I would be happier if Cons stayed as is and WinstonFirst dropped like a stone..

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  91. nasska (10,622 comments) says:

    Colville

    If they were both level pegging on about 3% with no hope of an electoral seat I’d celebrate with you.

    Nothing quite like watching nutters waste their votes.

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  92. nasska (10,622 comments) says:

    A man was telling his mate, “You won’t believe what
    happened last night.
    My daughter walked into the living room and said,
    “Dad, cancel my allowance immediately, forget my student loan
    repayments, rent my room out, throw all my clothes out
    the window, take my TV and my laptop. Please take any of my
    jewellery to the Salvation Army or Cash Converters. Then,
    sell my car, take my front door key away from me and throw
    me out of the house. Then, disown me and never talk to
    me again. Don’t forget to write me out of your will and
    leave my share to any charity you choose.”

    “Holy Shit,” replied the friend, “she actually said that?”

    “Well, she didn’t put it quite like that. She actually said,
    ‘Dad, meet my new boyfriend– Mohammed. We’re going to work
    together on the Green’s election campaign!’”

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  93. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    One of New Zealand’s best test days for a while, a public holiday and only about 7000 showed up and they were all there at 11.00 am.
    I can only surmise $45 is too bloody expensive, especially if you want to go to multiple days.

    Mature innings by McCullum, as a lay man I have put the shit into him but his captaincy has been great. I watched him settle McClenaghan down in the one dayer up here and it was leadership that did it.

    Rutherford is a concern, no talk of dropping him but he got out today to a shit shot and not one of a test opening bat, probably was lucky not to go to the ball prior.

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  94. Pete George (22,760 comments) says:

    I watched him settle McClenaghan down in the one dayer up here and it was leadership that did it.

    There’s a lot going on between balls and between overs that you never get to see from TV coverage, like field positioning, body language, interactions between players.

    The same applies with other sports. For example watching live you miss some of the detail and many of the repeats but you often get to see a bigger picture.

    Something that did seem evident on today’s TV coverage was the hug and chat between McCullum and Williamson after BM got his century. There seemed to be a genuine connection between them far beyond a obligatory show.

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  95. nickb (3,658 comments) says:

    Paul – tickets online before the first day were as low as $20 and $60 for a 5 day pass. That is a pretty disappointing turnout though

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  96. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Thanks Nick, I never thought to check on line, like a stupid bastard I listened to the weather forecast and only decided to go at 9.00 this morning

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  97. nickb (3,658 comments) says:

    Glad you got a full day in, it wasn’t looking flash this morning. I’ve got tickets to sat and sun so hoping rain stays away

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  98. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    A new Afghan law will allow men to attack their wives, children and sisters without fear of judicial punishment,

    Sounds like NZ and the way it treats baby bashers

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  99. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    NZ used to be Under the Jurisdiction of New South Wales Australia

    n 1788 Arthur Phillip assumed the position of Governor of New South Wales and claimed New Zealand as part of New South Wales.[

    Happy Waitangi Day thanks christ I don’t have to endure a bunch of bleeding heart apologist and BS artists

    One thing I will do is spare a minutes Silence for the Mori Ori and all the people NOW conveniently FORGOTTEN
    slaughtered by Maori and Pakeha

    Fly your blood flag genocidists

    Australians all let us rejoice,
    For we are young and free;
    We’ve golden soil and wealth for toil;
    Our home is girt by sea;
    Our land abounds in nature’s gifts
    Of beauty rich and rare;
    In history’s page, let every stage
    Advance Australia Fair.
    In joyful strains then let us sing,
    Advance Australia Fair.

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