General Debate 7 February 2014

February 7th, 2014 at 8:00 am by David Farrar
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228 Responses to “General Debate 7 February 2014”

  1. Steve (North Shore) (4,536 comments) says:

    Get to work you slackers, someone has to pay the Tax to give money to the IWI

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  2. Viking2 (11,672 comments) says:

    Ah but many don’t pay tax So you and I have to pay twicwe as much just for the Iwi and then just to insult us more we have to do it all again for WWF.

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  3. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    Yesterday NZ Herald proclaimed on their front page they were running “Protest Free News Pages” for their Waitangi Day coverage.

    Unfortunately they used a “White Power” logo. SNAFU or deliberately chosen?

    Herald, protest free and white power

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  4. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    It is with disgust one sees mainstream media playing up a little dip in the water for “Tojo” Cunliffe, saving a waka. This pathetic publicity stunt was about as sick as Goff, when he donned a pair of new gumboots, and mishandled a spade during the Rena disaster. To top it all off, “Tojo” was applauded for reading a little religion, his old man was a preacher. How does this stand with Labourites who have promoted Clark’s doctrine of being secular, her being a devout atheist.

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  5. johnwellingtonwells (137 comments) says:

    Why did Cunliffe need gumboots? Wll known fact that he can walk on water.

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  6. hj (7,156 comments) says:

    I heard “Professor of Maori Studies” MM talking about., land, cash and compensation., which we wont be able to afford now. Is for the future. That’s why the treaty (as a do-able formula) is a joke.
    Her type require knocking on the head.

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  7. Elaycee (4,425 comments) says:

    Interesting to note the NZ cricketers on the IPL Auction list (main window):

    Brendan McCullum and Ross Taylor – 2 crore
    Corey Anderson, Jesse Ryder, Nathan McCullum and Kyle Mills – 1 crore.
    [1 crore is 10Million IR and is today around NZ$193,000].

    http://www.tsmplug.com/cricket/ipl/2014-auction-players-list/

    Of course, there are other NZ cricketers up for auction, but this is, if you like, the ‘main board’.

    And for anyone interested, the list of retained players is here:

    http://www.tsmplug.com/cricket/ipl/players-who-will-be-retained-in-ipl-2014-auction/

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  8. iMP (2,455 comments) says:

    The welfare state paid to Ngapuhi over the last few generations would amount to what? Do they owe us a cheque?

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  9. peterwn (3,333 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9694172/Key-knows-Snowdens-info

    “Key knows Snowden’s info”

    Reminds me of a British comedy film where a diplomat said to a colleague “They don’t know that we know that they know that we know …” referring to state secrets.

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  10. Southern Raider (1,777 comments) says:

    I agree IMP. If they show no sign in next 3 months of actually moving forward towards settlement to do something for their community then build a fence around the place and turn off the benefit.

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  11. Paulus (2,707 comments) says:

    Heard Morning Report this morning – not working, and it was excellent to hear Finlayson gentlemanly put Mercep in his place regarding what was said by Key, and himself at Waitangi, re the Ngapuhi settlement.
    He actually told Mercep several times that he was wrong in what he was saying, but that didn’t deter Mercep from droning on, trying to score points.
    But Finlayson is far too good to be taken in by that..
    I do not like the Treaty settlements but I am glad that we have Finlayson fronting.
    Incidentally Shane jones agreed with the PM also.
    The argument is simple in Ngapuhi – who is going to control the $600,000,000 settlement, and become very rich, and who is going to remain poor, like the majority of Maori.

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  12. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Who cares about Snowden, he being in similar mould to the obese criminal German slug, being feted by Fairfax/APN/Radio/Tv and Labour/Greens. These mongrels are treasonous.

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  13. peterwn (3,333 comments) says:

    A con man who flew a plane without a licence appealed his 300 hour community detention sentence, arguing the going rate was 100 hours. Justice Stephen Kos (you do not mess with him!) reckoned that 100 hours was manifestly inadequate, and was going to say so in his written decision for the benefit of other judges.

    Coming to think of it, why cannot judges increase sentences if need be when someone appeals a sentence? Lord Goddard in the UK was able to.

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  14. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    The argument is simple in Ngapuhi – who is going to control the $600,000,000 settlement, and become very rich, and who is going to remain poor, like the majority of Maori.

    Who says it will be a $600m settlement? Someone from Ngapuhi floated that. Someone else suggested $40b.

    As was pointed out in Firstline this morning, claims are not proportional to size of iwi, they are based on specific issues such as illegal land losses. It was suggested the claim is more likely to be in the vicinity of $200m.

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  15. kowtow (8,936 comments) says:

    Key is being very free and easy with our money.

    Instead of offering the Nga Puhi elites a cash “incentive” to come to the table ,he should have said,”The country is tired of this process and you’ve got till the end of the month,otherwise all deals are off and you get nothing.”

    Tough international currency dealer …….yeah right.

    It’s always easy with other people’s money.

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  16. Sofia (857 comments) says:

    Hone Harawira – The timing is right for Ngapuhi to step up to the challenge of ensuring Te Tiriti becomes a central plank in the constitutional transformation of Aotearoa, and the opportunity that it presents to redefine the future for its own descendants.

    Which will be worse – report back of the secretive Constitutional Committee or the secretive TPP?

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  17. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    It’s good economic sense (for Government and for iwi) to tidy up all the Waitangi claims as soon as possible. It also makes good political sense.

    And it will put an end to people like Harawira trying to leverage far more out of Treaty claims than is justified. The treaty does not promise to transform New Zealand into socialist Aotearoa.

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  18. flipper (4,328 comments) says:

    OK folks… it is early times in the test…
    But there are nervous twitches in India.
    This from The Times of India”:

    1st Test: Sloppy India let Kiwis recover and gain control

    AUCKLAND: Only a handful of lucky ones get a second chance in life; only a really fortunate batsman gets a second life in a game that has death written all over it.

    Kane Williamson’s heart might have jumped into his mouth when he nicked Mohammed Shami in the 29th over; his eyes instinctively followed the trail of the ball, almost compelled to watch his own demise. But a split second later, they were dazzling with renewed hope: he had been afforded another shot to become the day’s hero.

    Murali Vijay moved to his left at first slip, but a little too sharply to make the simple catch; as it popped out of his hard hands, Shami screamed in pain and anger, realising that India may well have squandered the match.

    Expectedly, Williamson tightened his girdle and went on to play an array of delightful strokes; and in his own inimitable way, almost imperceptibly, scaled his fifth Test century (113: 172b, 10×4, 2×6).

    He wasn’t alone in rubbing salt and pepper into India’s bruised ego though: Brendon McCullum was equally speckless, if a tad more exciting, during his unconquered 143 (210b, 18×4, 2×6). Together, they rescued New Zealand from the vice-like grip of Hine-nui-te-po, the God of death in Maori mythology, adding 221 quick fire runs; and by close of play on Day 1 of the first Test, they had sped to a dominant 329 for 4, leaving India gasping for breath and respite.

    Earlier in the morning, McCullum could only wave apologetically to his mates, after losing the toss to MS Dhoni for the sixth time in succession; the Indian batsmen would have been more than happy to dance a full Monty, after seeing the dark clouds perched ominously over the Eden Park. ……… and more “

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  19. dime (10,212 comments) says:

    Cunliffe helping with the waka was freaking hilarious. Shameless pr. He even tweeted the pic himself lol

    Then again, it was just him,jones and a few hundred able bodied northland Maori there… So that meant it was really up to cunliffe and jones.. The other lazy assholes wouldn’t help.

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  20. Odakyu-sen (851 comments) says:

    “The timing is right for Ngapuhi to step up to the challenge of…”

    Hone refers to “Ngapuhi” rather than “Maori” in this instance. We should do the same.

    Use of the term “Maori” is like turning off the lights in a banquet. You can’t see who the various attendees are. Rest assured, they are not all the same. Some are relatively happy; others are really pissed off.

    I like to see the picture clearly, so as a first step, NZ should abolish the use of the word “Maori” and instead refer to specific iwi by name. It would really sharpen the focus of debate. It would force NZ to better understand the anatomy of the beast so it could find the best way to bring it to heel.

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  21. gump (1,683 comments) says:

    @igm

    ‘Who cares about Snowden, he being in similar mould to the obese criminal German slug, being feted by Fairfax/APN/Radio/Tv and Labour/Greens. These mongrels are treasonous.”

    ———————

    I care about Edward Snowden – as does anybody with a working brain.

    The documents he has released show that the security forces within United States Government have repeatedly violated the US Constitution.

    It’s a big deal and he was right to bring it to the attention of the public.

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  22. Scott (1,807 comments) says:

    Pete George at 9:09 a.m. – unfortunately Pete I think the endgame with regard to Waitangi claims is that there is no endgame. The Maori will keep claiming and claiming and claiming. White liberal guilt is such that the taxpayer will keep on paying and paying and paying. Can you truly say that there is an end in sight to Waitangi claims? When right now we have the Ngapuhi saying we are the biggest tribe and we should have the biggest claim?

    It’s about time we called an end to this nonsense. We are one nation and for the life of me I cannot understand why the taxpayer should be paying out huge sums of money to a particular racial group for events that occurred 2 centuries ago.

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  23. ciaron (1,448 comments) says:

    He wasn’t alone in rubbing salt and pepper into India’s bruised ego though:

    Perhaps it’s an Indian saying that looses something in translation?

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  24. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    I am bewildered, is the editor of “The Standard” also editor of “Manawatu Standard”? There is a striking editorial resemblance in the crap these Labour-based publications promote.

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  25. flipper (4,328 comments) says:

    Finlayson is one very cool cat.

    The final score: Finlayson 10; Radio NZ/Mercep and his Pig…Zero.

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  26. Colville (2,318 comments) says:

    igm. Cummings who is Manawatu Standard editor is a Labour Party mouthpiece so it wouldnt surprise me.

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  27. Doc (81 comments) says:

    @Sofia 09:08am

    Let’s all just pause for a second and reflect on just what Te Tiriti actually says: (and I paraphrase)

    Preamble: This is a treaty for both the Maori & the Settlers, so that they can be protected and live in peace together.
    1: The Maori surrender entire governership of all NZ to the Queen.
    2: The Maori get to keep their land, dwellings & posessions.
    2a: Any land they wish to sell may only be sold to the Crown. (At a mutually agreeable price.)
    3: The Queen will protect the Maori and give them the same rights as the settlers.

    …hardly the basis for constitutional reform! (and even less suitable as a “founding document”)

    The spirit of the agreement was manifestly to make us “One People” as Hobson was quoted. It is disappointing to see some (almost 200 years after the fact) using it instead to promote separatist ideals or use it as a launching pad for “Maori Sovereignty” which is the exact opposite of what was agreed.

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  28. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    We are one nation and for the life of me I cannot understand why the taxpayer should be paying out huge sums of money to a particular racial group for events that occurred 2 centuries ago.

    It’s widely understood why things like land confiscations a century or two ago should be addressed.

    Can you truly say that there is an end in sight to Waitangi claims?

    Yes. National had targeted an end by this year’s election but are struggling to achieve that, not due to their own efforts but due to some claims being dragged out.

    When right now we have the Ngapuhi saying we are the biggest tribe and we should have the biggest claim?

    No, we have one Ngapuhi on television saying that. We don’t know what they say collectively because they are very divided on it.

    The size of the tribe has nothing to do with the size of the claim. The size of the claim depends on how much they can claim for.

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  29. Reid (16,683 comments) says:

    Which will be worse – report back of the secretive Constitutional Committee or the secretive TPP?

    Good question sofia and one not easy to answer, yet.

    One thing seems quite apparent however. The secrecy angle in both displays outrageous and frankly IMO, unacceptable arrogance, from the PTB (powers that be) over our rights to be consulted on agreements that fundamentally affect us all. It’s a breach of the social contract, in my view.

    I would have been far happier to see the govt walk away from the TPP when it became clear that it wasn’t really a diplomatic negotiation but a corporate-driven agenda and why should a nation bother to even negotiate let alone sign a binding agreement with foreign corporations like Time-Warner and Pfizer? Because that’s what it is, even though the signatories will read “the govt of the US” everyone informed knows from where its been driven. And why bother to seal a deal with a dying economy? The US is history. It’s in the same place the UK was this time last century. The only global power that remains in its arsenal is its military and China and Russia combined could deal that a mortal blow.

    Meanwhile our, our, our (not their) constitution is being determined by a narrow-sector interest group with vested interests in locking in the past as opposed to building a future for yet-unborn generations. Given their final report was delivered end of 2013, it’s going to be interesting to see how the govt spins it in this election year. My guess is that virtually all of our gutless politicians will be in lockstep except the Conservatives, ACT and NZF. Neither of the majors will perform their job and represent ALL of us, on this critical matter. Leaving us with nowhere to go to register our profound disappointment in their betrayal.

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  30. Jack5 (5,274 comments) says:

    Toby Manhire is talking about many of Kiwiblog’s posters in the Hooerald today when he defends Waitangi Day celebrations and criticises those who would like a national day more like Australia’s:

    …. chorus of (mostly) middle-aged white male grumps …

    Manhire must be approaching middle age himself. His mum and dad, literary folk and likely liberals (in the sense that pisses off libertarians), are now retired from their professional positions, I seem to recall. “Young” Manhire is one of the more rational centre-lefties, but he’s out of step with popular opinion on Australia given the hundreds of thousands of NZ’ers who cross the ditch to live.

    He also seems wrong to me, in blaming (largely European-white) Australians for the plight of the Aborigines. These indigenous people, isolated from the world on the island continent for thousands of years, were doomed to a painful and probable fatal collision with other cultures when isolation ended and international modernity arrived. Today’s Aussies were the hammer rather than the blacksmith.

    Had Indonesian culture, rather than Western culture, arrived it would have been no better, if the fate of Melanesians west of Papua New Guinea is an indication. If colonists had been other Europeans, such as Spanish, their South American record shows things could have been worse for the Aborigines, as it might have been if the settlers had been Dutch (look at South Africa). If the colonists had been Chinese it’s unlikely things would have been easier for the Aborigines (look at Tibet and Inner Mongolia). If they had been Melanesians, would the brown colonists have treated Aborigines better than the Melanesians have treated ethnic Indians in Fiji?

    Aussie bashing’s becoming a bit boring. Don’t let us get a chip on our national shoulder about Australia, the way the Irish more justifiably have about the English, and the Poles about the Russians.

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  31. Alan (1,087 comments) says:

    Nga Puhi appear to be behind other groups in economic development. Nagi Tahu for instance appear much better managed and to be spending the money better in developing jobs.

    As I understand it, Northland is the last major outstanding area in the current process. All up so far this process has cost just under $1bn, not a massive amount of cash in meta terms. It looks like we’re heading for about $2bn all up when relativity clauses kick in.

    I’m happy to let the process continue, but we need to wrap it up at the end. We can’t start another round of it.

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  32. Ross12 (1,484 comments) says:

    PG @ 9.09am.

    I’d like to think you are right Pete –ie. getting the claims sorted quickly, once and for all is the best way forward. But I think Scot’s reply to you has some truth in it. I recall talking to some very senior guys in Maoridom after the Tainui deal was signed and I rather naively said that it was good, as it would put an end to it for the iwi and they could get on with developments etc for themselves. The reply I got was something like ” Oh, no “we” cannot speak for future generations, they may see things differently”.
    Don’t forget there has been full and final settlement for Ngai Tahu before –there was an Act of Parliament to that effect in the 1930s ( or around about that time).

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  33. kowtow (8,936 comments) says:

    Morality and basis for Treaty claims.

    Probably depends on how good your team is and the relationships it can cultivate with the government (paying ) team.

    Ngai Tahu got something like 5 settlements ,with an in perpetuity top up clause (fuck me ,who was representing the taxpayer for that one?)

    http://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/opinion/212056/complaint-industry-still-rambles

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  34. Colville (2,318 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/9687979/Waitangi-Day-a-sham#comments

    Stuff is allowing comments! Go for it!

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  35. jaba (2,146 comments) says:

    TV news at 7 this morning about the “treaty” settlement up north. Harawira, interviewed while marching about something (stopping oil exploration I think) .. called the $40mil as a down payment insulting and 2 of his disciples said:
    John Key needs a good hiding
    the settlement should be $40 billion
    there is NO hope while these muppets are center stage.
    And then there is the dreaded .. who is the true spokesperson?

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  36. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    I think Manhire is talking about two separate things.

    Waitangi Day this year was relatively trouble free, and notably there were a number of media references to the importance of the positives at Waitangi not being drowned out by a few media promoted protests.

    But Waitangi Day will always be Waitangi Day, with it’s own special significance commemorating a very important historical event.

    That doesn’t mean we can’t have another special day to celebrate New Zealand as a whole. The most practical day for that is Queens Birthday, which is currently an irrelevant public holiday. There’s no reason it couldn’t be used instead to celebrate our country as we are in the 21st century.

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  37. Jack5 (5,274 comments) says:

    Alan posted at 10.06 that Ngai Tahu seemed to being doing better than Nga Puhi:

    Ngai Tahu for instance appear much better managed and to be spending the money better in developing jobs.

    Nga Puhi should have hired Chris Finlayson as its chief negotiator. He negotiated the sweetheart deal for Ngai Tahu.

    Nga Puhi hasn’t yet reached the charity status of Ngai Tahu, under which its many businesses compete tax free against other NZ firms. Nga Puhi will almost definitely not get a sweetheart arrangement similar to the way Finlayson negotiated for Ngai Tahu first and second rights of purchase of South Island Crown assets in perpetuity.

    To be fair, Ngai Tahu has been smart in hiring smart outside executives, and I think that’s what Alan is probably referring to.

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  38. Sofia (857 comments) says:

    IMHO the Treaty of Waitangi is a particularly badly written ill-defined ambiguous fucking real estate agreement and hardly a nation’s founding document.

    Compare it to the United States Constitution or the United States Declaration of Independence – those are founding documents.

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  39. dirty harry (525 comments) says:

    The treaty settlements will never be full and final. The next generation of shit stirrers are already being primed to keep up the robbery of the white man for decades to come. Anyone who thinks the current round of settlements are full and final is living in dream world.

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  40. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    Anyone who thinks the current round of settlements are full and final is living in dream world.

    Whether anyone believes that or not is irrelevant. We have a treaty process that has been supported by multiple Governments without question. It would be nonsensical not to address something now in case it was raised again some time in the future.

    Theoretically no legal settlement is full and final, but legal settlements are still an important part of how we operate. As is the current treaty settlement process.

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  41. dirty harry (525 comments) says:

    Well I can tell you its not fucking irrelevant to me. The whole thing is a sick joke and is only going to end in tears and violence down the track. You are 100% wrong Mr George.

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  42. Steve (North Shore) (4,536 comments) says:

    Please stop using the term “Treaty Claims”

    The correct term is “Extortion”

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  43. Doc (81 comments) says:

    I saw the “$40 billion” comment on TV and just had to laugh at the ignorance displayed. (notwithstanding the merit of the argument, or lack thereof)

    A $40bn settlement is a payment of almost ** TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS ** from every single man, woman and child in NZ.

    So… if the Ngapuhi tribe are able to collect the $1.25bn from their own 125,000 members, I will happily stump up my share :-)

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  44. emmess (1,398 comments) says:

    Now I know the Herald is biased in favour of the left but this is ridiculous

    Labour’s trade spokesman Phil Godd accused Australia of breaching its obligations under the Closer Economic Relations (CER) free trade agreement and said the campaign was a “fundamental threat” to New Zealand’s exporters.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11197719

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  45. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    The whole thing is a sick joke and is only going to end in tears and violence down the track.

    I don’t see whay this should happen unless some people totally misunderstand what’s being done and grossly over-react.

    Threats or fears of violence “down the track” come from small numbers strongly against any settlements and small numbers who think the settlements don’t go anywhere near far enough. I think most people are more understanding and realistic,

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  46. Nostalgia-NZ (5,318 comments) says:

    Don’t think so dirty harry, settling with the bigger iwi is the key. There may be further ‘claims’ but they will be on a lesser scale and probably over who signed or should have signed – therefore having less potential impact, and an opportunity for Government to say that their obligations are legitimately completed and any (proposed obligations) arising between iwi will need to be sorted out by those parties and not the government unless a legitimate case is made. Support for that position should or must come from TWT and the Courts. But none of that means that various iwi themselves will not maintain an interest in their rights under the TOW.

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  47. wikiriwhis business (4,192 comments) says:

    US military dog captured by Taliban fighters

    In the annals of prisoner of war videos, this seems to be a first. A slightly befuddled Belgian Malinois appears on a tight leash, surrounded by heavily armed, bearded men boasting of their battlefield loot.

    Donning a black protective vest, the dog wags its tail at certain points and appears more confused than terrified as its captors showcase specialised rifles and a global positioning device with a blinking light they say came attached to the dog.

    “Allah gave victory to the mujahideen,” one of the fighters exclaims. “Down with them, down with their spies.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/9695868/Military-dog-captured-by-Taliban-fighters

    Poor puppy but is this absolutely hilarious or what !

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  48. wikiriwhis business (4,192 comments) says:

    » Key hits back over ex-pats

    Prime Minister John Key has hit back at Labour leader David Cunliffe after he suggested the Government should take a tougher stance over the rights of ex-pat Kiwis across the Tasman.

    Up till 2001 New Zealanders across the Tasman had all the rights of citizenship, but the Australian Government stripped away most entitlements for any Kiwis – an estimated 200,000 – entering the country after that time.

    Cunliffe said today it was time to address the fact that New Zealanders in Australia did not enjoy the same rights and privileges afforded to Australians living in New Zealand

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9692368/Key-hits-back-over-ex-pats

    Pfff… Kiwi’s get no assistance whatsoever from any NZ embassies around the world so why would Key support ex pats in Oz??

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  49. Colville (2,318 comments) says:

    McCullum and Anderson have taken a big handful of angry pills and are hammering the Indians
    Over a run a minute. 40 runs in 30 mins. This could get messy!
    Yippee! :-)

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  50. smttc (767 comments) says:

    kowtow, you obviously did not listen to Finlayson on Moaning Report this morning. Otherwise you would realise that what you have simply repeated is what the feckless media in this country inaccurately reported. Finlayson dealt to Mercep big time and then the useless bastard Mercep went on to repeat the same line about an “incentive” payment and let Winston Peters state it sets a dangerous precedent when Finlayson had made it clear the payment on account approach had been used successfully on several previous settlements. God help us. The MSM is useless in this country.

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  51. gump (1,683 comments) says:

    A sad story from Saudi.

    “Saudi woman dies after male paramedics barred from campus”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11197945

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  52. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    Despite this morning’s flurry of runs Anderson still only has a strike rate of 67, good to see him adapting to test cricket sensibly.

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  53. nickb (3,696 comments) says:

    Yup they are going great guns. Shame Anderson missed a 100, would have been a great achievement. The Indians look pretty woeful though, maybe they’d rather be somewhere else.

    At this rate we should get to 500 well before tea to set it up nicely

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  54. MH (830 comments) says:

    The continuing nuclear talks with Iran have just entered their most challenging phase. During the next six months, the U.S. and its negotiating partners will try, in the words of President Barack Obama, to persuade Iran to agree on a “peaceful nuclear program,” including a “modest enrichment capability,” that leaves it short of the ability to produce nuclear weapons.

    This task will be far harder to achieve than is generally understood.

    A civilian program to enrich uranium for nuclear power must, by its nature, be many times larger than a bomb program. That is the opposite of what most people think. In fact, a small-scale enrichment program for nuclear power doesn’t really exist. To understand why, let’s look at some numbers.

    Everyone is worried about Iran’s centrifuges, the fast-spinning cylinders that enrich uranium. The cylinders can be used to make fuel for either power reactors or bombs. For comparison, it takes 25 times more enrichment power to fuel a standard-size, 1,000-megawatt reactor such as the one the Russians built in Bushehr, Iran, than it does to fuel a single bomb. Put another way, if Iran had the enrichment power to fuel the Bushehr reactor for a year and instead decided to make bombs, it could produce the fuel for a nuclear warhead every 15 days — 25 a year.

    No deal with the U.S. would allow Iran to have such power. Moreover, such capability would be a vast scale-up of Iran’s current program. Iran now produces about 1.9 metric tons of enriched uranium a year. It takes approximately 20 metric tons to fuel a 1,000-megawatt reactor. To fuel a smaller, 360-megawatt reactor (which Iran says it will build), Iran would have to produce three times as much enriched uranium as it does now. Either option would allow Iran to fuel several nuclear weapons a year, if it chose to do so.

    If Iran can’t be permitted to make the fuel for a power reactor, what good are its centrifuges? Their only possible use would be to fuel a nonpower reactor, such as the small research reactor in Tehran. However, Iran has already enriched more uranium than the Tehran reactor needs for the foreseeable future.

    Iran’s centrifuges don’t fit into a peaceful nuclear power program. There are far too few to fuel a power reactor but quite enough for nuclear weapon production. This unfortunate fact hangs over the negotiations. So far, Iran’s centrifuges have enriched a stockpile of uranium that is two-thirds of the way to weapons-grade. By enriching its stockpile further, the Iranians could fuel about six nuclear weapons.

    How will these numbers affect the talks? Is it possible for Iran to have a “modest enrichment capability” that can’t fuel a weapon?

    One solution would be for Iran to keep running its centrifuges and get rid of its stockpile of enriched uranium. In this scenario, Iran’s centrifuges could be fed by natural uranium only. Starting at that level would require more power and time to produce weapons-grade fuel. If using natural uranium, the centrifuges Iran currently operates would need more than six months to enrich enough uranium for a bomb. That would give other countries time to intervene if Iran tried to make a dash for the bomb. The enriched uranium Iran has already produced could be sent to Russia, where it could be fashioned into fuel rods not readily convertible to weaponry. And Iran would have to leave approximately 9,000 of its centrifuges — about half — installed but nonoperational.

    Another option would be for Iran to keep its enriched uranium but further scale back the operation of its centrifuges. This would be necessary because, theoretically, the roughly 9,000 operating centrifuges Iran currently has, if fed enriched uranium, would need only about two months to enrich enough uranium for a bomb. Because Iran has never enriched uranium to weapons-grade, the real timeline would be longer, but it is difficult to know how much. To theoretically extend the enrichment time to six months, Iran could operate no more than 3,000 centrifuges, leaving some 15,000 dormant.

    For either option to work, Iran would have to allow inspectors unfettered access to its nuclear program, to guard against cheating. It also would have to dismantle or modify the large, plutonium-producing research reactor it is building in Arak, relinquish and stop expanding its small stockpile of uranium enriched to 20 percent, and agree to not operate additional centrifuges.

    Will the Iranians agree? So far, the odds seem long. Iran has trumpeted its plans to expand, not contract, its supply of centrifuges. Nevertheless, the U.S. must insist upon one of these options. Otherwise, Iran will be left with centrifuges that contribute nothing to civilian nuclear energy but provide a clear path to the bomb.

    (Gary Milhollin is president of the Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control, which publishes IranWatch.org; Valerie Lincy is executive director of the Wisconsin Project.)

    To contact the writers of this article: Gary Milhollin at gm@wisconsinproject.org and Valerie Lincy at valerie@wisconsinproject.org.

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  55. peterwn (3,333 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis business –
    “Pfff… Kiwi’s get no assistance whatsoever from any NZ embassies around the world so why would Key support ex pats in Oz??”

    Some people seem to think that NZ Embassies and Consuls have a stack of ‘Get out of jail’ cards. And some Kiwis seem to think that ‘anything goes’ in a foreign country whereas people need to be extra careful in any foreign country, including not getting drunk, not starting or continuing arguments, and not shoplifting etc. And you do not generally get consular assistance if you were born in the country in question.

    As far as Kiwis in Oz are concerned – if you want to go to Oz, you abide by their rules and leave your sense of entitlement behind. It is as simple as that. Same with any other nation you visit. It it does not suit you, then don’t go.

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  56. kowtow (8,936 comments) says:

    Apparently today is International Day of Zero Tolerance to Female Genital Mutilation (yeah seriously)

    It seems it’s a big problem in the UK.

    What’s the problem ? We’ve been told mass immigration is good and we must celebrate diversity and multiculturalism!

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  57. Scott (1,807 comments) says:

    Pete George – I think you are overly optimistic about treaty claims. You say that the government is hoping to finish treaty claims by the end of the year but is struggling to achieve that.

    So when will treaty claims actually be over? When will the poor overburdened taxpayer finally finish paying for the perceived injustice of our forebears 2 centuries ago? By your own admission it won’t be by the end of 2014. Will we finally be done by the end of 2015? Or 2016?

    When will we finally close the book and say we have finished all of our apologies and paid out all of our treaty claims and we are now finished? When will we say we are now one nation working together?

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  58. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    kowtow (6,269 comments) says:

    February 7th, 2014 at 12:26 pm
    Apparently today is Anti Female Genital Mutilation Day (yeah seriously)

    It seems it’s a big problem in the UK.

    What’s the problem ? We’ve been told mass immigration is good and we must celebrate diversity and multiculturalism!

    Kowtow, when is -anti male genital mutilation day- held in Israel ?

    Male circumcision is also a form of genital mutilation since it involves removing a healthy part of an organ. How can we convince mothers that they should not mutilate their daughters while they could continue to have their sons circumcised?”

    by Rabbi Shraga Simmons

    http://jewishmom.com/pregnancy-inspiration/inspiration-for-pregnancy/inspiration-for-new-parents/bris-milah-beautiful-or-barbaric-by-rabbi-shraga-simmons/

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  59. Manolo (14,166 comments) says:

    Getting closer to oblivion: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2014/02/05/CNN-Cancels-CNN-Latino-New-Service

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  60. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    As Anita Diamant says in The New Jewish Baby Book: “Every parent getting ready for a brit milah wishes, the week before, that the Jewish people had abandoned the practice. But the significance and ritual power of brit milah is not the stuff of reason, or even of language.”

    Certainly if we were not Jewish we would likely not have performed a circumcision.

    http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2004/12/09/jewish-circumci/

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  61. Fletch (6,523 comments) says:

    Kea, it’s not the same thing at all…

    One of the most frightening manifestations of this hatred of women is also the most direct assault on their sexuality. In its effort to deny women even the possibility of personal happiness and sexual satisfaction, the law of men mandates that at the age of seven or eight—before their menstrual periods begin—their sexuality be amputated.32

    This is the so-called “female circumcision,” more accurately described as female genital mutilation (FGM), based on the notion that a girl’s genital area is dirty and unacceptable.33 An uncircumcised girl is called nigsa (unclean); the only way she can become non-nigsa is to have part of her external genitals sliced off. How much is amputated varies among cultures.

    In Egypt only the clitoris is amputated; in countries like Sudan the woman-haters are not so kind. In a savagery called infibulation, the girl’s external genital organs are completely removed: the clitoris, the two major outer lips (labia majora) and the two minor inner lips (labia minora).34 In Sudan, the term used for this is tahur—which means “cleansing” or “purification.”

    FGM predates Islam and is not exclusively Muslim; many non-Islamic parts of Africa whose cultural traditions also dehumanize women practice FGM. The fact remains, however, that Muslims are the principal religious group that practices this sexual violence against women. In Egypt, for instance, 97 percent of girls are circumcised. Saadawi relates how, at the age of six, she was assaulted with FGM at the hands of strangers and how she saw her mother “right in the midst of these strangers, talking to them and smiling at them, as though they had not participated in slaughtering her daughter just a few moments ago.”35

    More than 130 million women living today have suffered through this horrifying practice, and more than two million girls face assault by it each year: that is more than five thousand girls every day. Many girls lose their lives during FGM, which is often done with broken glass. Most victims suffer from chronic infection and pain for the rest of their lives. The mutilation robs women of their ability to enjoy the fullness of their sexuality. Approximately 75 percent of women cannot achieve orgasm without clitoral stimulation; thus the possibility of sexual satisfaction has been obliterated for millions of women in the Muslim-Arab world.

    Glazov, Jamie (2009-03-03). United in Hate: The Left’s Romance with Tyranny and Terror, Midpoint Trade Books. Kindle Edition.

    With men, it isn’t likely to affect them feeling pleasure or anything else.

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  62. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    Bowling mangoes via Cricinfo.

    Mac: “Dhoni continuing to give overs to Ishant while NZ make merry is like General Melchett’s plan for Blackadder and his men to slow march into the machine guns, since “it’ll be the last thing Fritz will expect”. A cunning plan indeed!”

    Brad: “To keep up the Blackadder analogies, McCullum saving NZ from this Indian bowling attack is like the battle of the Mboto Gorge, where Blackadder saved Field Marshall Haig from a pygmy woman with a sharpened mango.”

    Funny. Despite getting four wickets Ishant is copping flak from batsmen and commenters.

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  63. nickb (3,696 comments) says:

    Pete – have you been watching the game? He has been bowling appallingly this morning.

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  64. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Fletch (5,497 comments) says:

    February 7th, 2014 at 12:45 pm
    Kea, it’s not the same thing at all…

    Once again I see you suspending decency and common sense in the name of religion. Either you are against the genital mutilation of kids or you are not.

    “One of the most frightening manifestations of this hatred of women ”

    Being an ignorant bigot you are probably unaware that this proceedure is done by women. Women are no less Muslim than the men and many would be offended by your suggestion they are “victims” of Islam. They are part and parcel of it.

    As far as female circumcision is concerned I consider it barbaric. However there are different levels and the most common method is no worse (maybe less so) than male circumcision. Predictably you focus on the worst of Muslim religious wrongs, while denying or minimising the wrongs of others. Mostly they just trim a bit of the clitorial hood. If they can not achieve orgasm it is probably you doing something wrong. I can assure you their girly bits work just fine.

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  65. Colville (2,318 comments) says:

    Ishant going at over 4/over.

    Hope Jadeja is bowling when McCullum goes crazy toward the end of the innings.

    McCullum on 200 ! yippee!!

    154 runs scored in the session.

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  66. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    No, not watching, just keeping an eye on Cricinfo and there’s a lot of criticism of his bowling there.

    Whoa, McCullum going for the double ton in style. Some will be disappointed he didn’t get it with a six (like he reached 100) but that’s good enough.

    That’s been a big first session boost to the score. McCullum can take his time after lunch to push his personal and the team scores up. Looking good.

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  67. Nostalgia-NZ (5,318 comments) says:

    NZ is scoring at 4.1 an over now.

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  68. nickb (3,696 comments) says:

    What a game. Let’s hope Southee and Boult can find some swing and the rain stays away.

    Wonder how many more we’ll get before a declaration. Another 60-70 runs in the hour after lunch would be pretty unassailable…

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  69. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    Kea, what is the turn on for you submitting to the strictest of Islamic Sharia dictates.?

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  70. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    stephieboy I do not submit to any religion. They are all equally worthless. You mistake my fight against hypocrisy and religious persecution for defense of Islam. In fact it is my least favourite desert cult. I prefer the Jews if I had to choose.

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  71. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Jews get mighty uncomfortable hearing you Christians rant about cleansing the West of a certain religious group. They have heard it all before.

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  72. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Colville: It would be interesting to obtain a register of senior journalists’ political affiliations and party positions. I bet Fairfax and APN would dive for cover, seeing as editors of both major papers have strong Labour Party links.

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  73. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    So sorry kea , you’ve been suffering from Islamphobia all the way along.!
    Puzzling.! Nonetheless am glad to see your now a fanboy of that other desert cult, the Jews.

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  74. Colville (2,318 comments) says:

    nickb.

    I reckon no declaration until McCullum perishes and by the time he does there could be a lot of Indian bowlers tears ;-)

    A bit of cloud and a spot or two of rain would help our bowlers surely?

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  75. peterwn (3,333 comments) says:

    ‘genital mutilation’. The Jews were among the first to be concerned with public health and part of the book of Leviticus in the Bible (rarely referred to by Christian churches) is a health and hygiene manual although some of the practices were misconceived or are no longer relevant (eg no pork, separation of ‘meat’ and ‘dairy’, etc). Circumcision had and still has some public health justification which is why the practice has not been outlawed in modern society. Female genital mutilation has no such basis, and is merely done on the basis there should be no sexual pleasure.

    I cannot understand why a UN Childrens Committee is rabbiting on about kiddy fiddling priests without giving Pope Francis a chance to deal with the issue, when it is sitting on its hands with female genital mutilation often carried out on young and teen girls. I concede that stoning of women etc is outside its brief, but UN Human rights seem to be spending more time nit-picking with NZ’s Human Rights than tackling real issues such as stoning of women, making women accountable if they are raped etc.

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  76. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    stephieboy , if you could see through the haze of religious nonsense you would be able to understand. Instead you see the world through a black and white lens of Muslim = Bad, Christian = Good, Jews = God chosen ones.

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  77. Colville (2,318 comments) says:

    igm @ 1.34
    I doubt that 10% of media would vote Blue. Half would be gween and the rest red.
    A lot of that is age, they are young and havent got real jobs yet!

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  78. RRM (10,099 comments) says:

    Back at work again after Maori ™ Day… it feels like a Monday :-(

    I have to keep reminding myself it’s actually Friday :-)

    We had a white hangi (BBQ) for Waitangi day, I hope everyone else’s was enjoyable too!

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  79. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    I bet Fairfax and APN would dive for cover, seeing as editors of both major papers have strong Labour Party links.

    Funny – Metiria Turei just tweeted: “We know the Herald are National supporters but sheesh! “

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  80. alex Masterley (1,535 comments) says:

    RRM,

    Went to cricket yesterday and heading off there again shortly.

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  81. Colville (2,318 comments) says:

    Shit the innings is ending in a bit of a wimper!
    Only Boult to go.

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  82. kowtow (8,936 comments) says:

    Multicultural married bliss in Australia.

    Embrace,celebrate ,diversity soooooooo enriches our plain white boring Anglo Saxon,Judeo Christian society.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/too_dangerous_for_you_to_know/

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  83. nickb (3,696 comments) says:

    Think it could be a good thing Colville. Get them in sooner and try to knock some of them over today. With the rain around

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  84. alex Masterley (1,535 comments) says:

    I am not going to complain about 504.
    Baz played well.
    now lets see what Boult and Southee can do.

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  85. dirty harry (525 comments) says:

    “Multicultural married bliss in Australia.”

    Disgusting..and we let these vermin into NZ..disgusting

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  86. Rowan (2,604 comments) says:

    Great stuff from the Black caps, Anderson out to a howler that was missing the stumps by a mile, great batting from BMac, now lets see Southee and Boult do some damage with the ball, 3 or 4 down by stumps would be good.

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  87. Colville (2,318 comments) says:

    You have got to be fucking kidding me.
    2 out in first over!

    :-)

    Boult, you da Man!

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  88. Colville (2,318 comments) says:

    Rowan, set your sights higher Man!

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  89. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    Well, at least have way to your stumps goal Rowan. In the first over. Wow.

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  90. alex Masterley (1,535 comments) says:

    Holy molly, leave the tv in the board room to do some work, check cricinfo. 2 down. I really need to get to the park this afternoon.

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  91. Rowan (2,604 comments) says:

    Wow, what an over maybe we should go for 5+ down by stumps, awesome stuff from Boult.

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  92. Left Right and Centre (3,007 comments) says:

    God bless

    – Paul Henry, The Paul Henry Show TV3, MediaWorks.

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  93. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    “kowtow (6,270 comments) says:

    February 7th, 2014 at 2:09 pm
    Multicultural married bliss in Australia.

    I see he married a woman, so I am figuring the groom was not Catholic. Generally they just rape little boys.

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  94. Colville (2,318 comments) says:

    3 down.

    *happy dance*

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  95. Rowan (2,604 comments) says:

    This reminds me of a game in Wellington back around 1999, Simon Doull ripped through the top of the Indian batting order and finished with 7-65, India were thumped.

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  96. alex Masterley (1,535 comments) says:

    Rowan,

    I remember that win. I’d never rated Doull until that game.

    I am loving seeing the masters of the universe humbled.

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  97. Southern Raider (1,777 comments) says:

    I see the scum who seriously beat up a South Auckland mum who was on a pre dinner walk failed to turn up to court today. It still blows me away how you can put a female into hospital and get bail.

    Then his lawyer wanted him to continue name suppression because his brother has the same first and last name. Isn’t the the parents fault not the communities :)

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  98. nickb (3,696 comments) says:

    How good are southee and boult…haven’t felt this optimistic about black caps fortune, since, ever.

    Going both days this weekend – hoping to see more great cricket

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  99. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    I think everyone should get name suppression until found guilty. Once found guilty, no one should get name suppression.

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  100. alex Masterley (1,535 comments) says:

    Bugger
    Just looked at the forecast for the next few days.
    tomorrow OK,
    Sunday and Monday, afternoon rain potentially.
    And I have an invite to a corporate box on Sunday.

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  101. Manolo (14,166 comments) says:

    A shameless and corrupt socialist gets away with theft:

    Auckland Mayor Len Brown will pay $40,000 towards the $250,000 cost of a review into his affair with council adviser Bevan Chuang.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11198117

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  102. Manolo (14,166 comments) says:

    More on the joys of multiculturalism: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11198089

    A man accused of viciously attacking an Auckland mother on her daily pre-dinner walk failed to turn up at court today.

    Lual Makur Lual, 26, was to have appeared in the Manukau District Court today where police laid a more serious charge of injuring with intent to cause grievous bodily harm against Praveet Singh.

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  103. Elaycee (4,425 comments) says:

    alex Masterley

    And I have an invite to a corporate box on Sunday.

    Fear not…. I’m sure the hospitality will still be in working order…. :)

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  104. nickb (3,696 comments) says:

    You kiwiblog cricket fans should pre-register for 2015 cricket world cup tickets if you haven’t already.

    A long time away, but they went on sale this week and already some of the good games are selling out…

    I got tickets today for NZ v Aus pool game at Eden Park – 28 Feb (That’ll be a cracker) and the semi at eden park.

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  105. Southern Raider (1,777 comments) says:

    Manolo if this guy is an immigrant then he should be just deported straight away. No point wasting taxpayer dollars on him before you pay for the plane trip.

    Australia is cracking down hard sending shit back this way. We need to do the same.

    You come to NZ as a guest not by right.

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  106. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    I see Ken Barlow has been acquitted in the latest show trial in the UK. I fear someone is going to be made to pay for the crimes of Jimmy Savile, and it looks like it could be poor Rolf. I really hope not, but it’s looking more likely now. I suspect TVNZ will be disappointed in the Ken verdict, given the way they have promoted themselves as having played an important role in the whole sorry affair.

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  107. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Hate filled harpy upset over women looking nice. The Taliban would agree.

    Air New Zealand’s new “highly sexualised” safety video featuring bikini-clad models from Sport Illustrated magazine has been criticised for objectifying women.

    But Massey University lecturer and feminist commentator Deborah Russell, who today viewed a preview about the making of the video, said she objected to the use of “highly sexualised” images in a safety video.

    “My concern is that as a woman I get on a plane to go to a business meeting say – something serious – and I am confronted by women in bikinis in what are highly sexualised images,” Russell said.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9696803/Air-NZ-sexualised-video-slammed

    I hope this vile hag is treated with the contempt she so richly deserves.

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  108. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    Two very good follow-ups to the Metiria Turei jacket/racist/elitist issue.

    Bryce Edwards: The political minefield of race relations

    Discussion, debate and reporting on race relations in New Zealand is a political minefield. There’s passion, anger, and polarised thinking, which all leads to sensitivities and potential explosiveness and hurt. This is especially the case with Waitangi Day commemorations, celebrations, and protests, which are inseparable from important issues relating to the Treaty, racism, and inequality. The many diverse arguments and perspectives about these are worth exploring.

    And:

    For a more trenchant leftwing critique of Metiria Turei’s allegations, see John Moore’s blogpost, The Elite politician that cried racism. He argues that Turei’s defence of her ‘opulent’ clothes reflects her integration into Establishment politics, and that her claims of racism demean real experience of racism in New Zealand.

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  109. Maggy Wassilieff (483 comments) says:

    @ Kea ..4:39.. I wonder if that is the same Deborah Russell that has recently co-authored a paper with DPF?

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  110. Lucia Maria (2,651 comments) says:

    UK Muslims killed in Syria lived secular lives, then grew more religious and went off to wage jihad

    ‘We have seen in a number of cases how people from conventional backgrounds — professional people — can turn in a relatively short period of time,’ he told me. ‘It is easy for people to become radicalised from mainstream or minority media material on the internet.’

    Fahy has no idea why that is. Eventually he may be forced to admit that young Muslims can be “radicalized” so quickly because jihadis use the texts and teachings of Islam to appeal to them, portraying themselves as the exponents of true Islam and telling young Muslims that they can please Allah by engaging in jihad warfare.

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  111. mandk (1,030 comments) says:

    @ Pete George,

    When Stuff ran this story, I submitted a comment to the effect that, just as bigots are quick to accuse others of bigotry and hate-filled people are quick to accuse others of being hateful, racists are often quick to accuse others of racism.

    Funnily enough, my comment wasn’t published. Can’t think why.

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  112. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Maggy Wassilieff , I dunno. Maybe you could ask him ?

    Most of these feminist harpies come across much better face to face, but the stuff they do professionally is absurd.

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  113. Lucia Maria (2,651 comments) says:

    Bikinis are highly sexualised clothing. Back in the 50’s when the bikini was invented, no respectable woman would model it for the designer, who was forced to hire a stripper in order to show it off to the fashion world.

    We are kind of used to it now, but that video looks to be very disturbing. The Air NZ guy should pay attention to the latest trend in movies, whereby because women tend to choose the movies that couples watch, many movies with too much stuff in them flop, and the move wholesome ones do better. Would people boycott Air NZ over that safety video – maybe. Maybe wives with husbands flying around the place for business might ask them to use a different airline instead. There might be a bigger backlash than the guy expects.

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  114. big bruv (14,217 comments) says:

    “There might be a bigger backlash than the guy expects.”

    Only from those who have had their minds poisoned by the Catholic Church.

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  115. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Bikinis are highly sexualised clothing. Back in the 50′s when the bikini was invented, no respectable woman would model it for the designer, who was forced to hire a stripper in order to show it off to the fashion world.

    I see Lucy has converted to fundamentalist Islam. :)

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  116. mandk (1,030 comments) says:

    @ Lucia Maria,

    Not sure you are correct. Most of the objectification of women that hits me in the eye seems to be by women, for women. The fashion and gossip mags are the worst.

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  117. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Air NZ guy should pay attention to the latest trend in movies, whereby because women tend to choose the movies that couples watch,

    Here that guys (and Air NZ) you better do as women want !

    But Lucy is right. The fact is our whole superficial, materialistic, shallow and idiotic pop culture is driven by women. The reason being they are the biggest spenders and everything is designed attract them for advertising reasons. We live in an absurdly feminised culture.

    Lucy will try and tell you that sexy looking women are used to attract males. That is untrue. There are more tits & bums in a womens magazines than in publications aimed at a male audience.

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  118. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Lecher Len is the reason we should have ratepayers only, voting in local body elections. This self-centred pervert has sat in council surrounded by socialists, all voted in by non-ratepayers, not giving a stuff about the plight of many hard-pressed citizens who have got off their arses and worked for properties they can now no longer afford to live in. How many of the Lecher’s supporters are ratepayers, and how many ratepayers actually voted for the thieving lecherous mongrel?

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  119. Elaycee (4,425 comments) says:

    Back in the 50′s when the bikini was invented….

    Back in the 50’s there wasn’t much chance of Jockey using the All Blacks to strut their stuff in their undies, either. But there isn’t a woman I know who doesn’t ‘approve’ of the DC Jockey advert. Or is that, somehow ‘different’?

    From what can be seen in the promo, I reckon the advert will be great. Just checked with SWMBO and she likes the look of it too.

    But I guess that won’t stop some people from seeing something sinister – even though it just doesn’t exist.

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  120. Lucia Maria (2,651 comments) says:

    I see Lucy has converted to fundamentalist Islam.

    Just for Kea,

    A Catholic chastity speaker

    BTW, I was out by a decade – the bikini was invented in the 40’s.

    Compared to an Islamic preacher in Australia who likened women who don’t dress appropriately to “uncovered meat”.

    See the difference?

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  121. dime (10,212 comments) says:

    Great day at the cricket. Huge morning session.

    The applause for McCullums double ton went on forever.

    Bouts first over was insane.

    Kohlis tanty was great too. I’m not sure if he has left the field yet.

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  122. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    I bet Jesus would not look at pretty girls :)

    Jesus as an openly gay man

    The most astounding finding from the newly discovered lead codices is that Jesus Christ was unambiguously and openly gay. He and his disciples formed a same-sex coterie, bound by feelings of love and mutual support. There are recorded instances of same-sex activity – the “beloved disciple” plays a significant role – and there is affirmation of the joys of friendship and of living and loving together.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2011/apr/04/jesus-gay-man-codices

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  123. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    Manolo (12,123 comments) says:
    February 7th, 2014 at 3:19 pm

    Are you suggesting that multiculturalism is the cause for these kind of crimes.?,

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  124. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Lucy, here is another Christian group: http://www.priestsrapeboys.com/

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  125. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Chaplain Paul Oestreicher:

    Was Jesus gay? Probably

    I preached on Good Friday that Jesus’s intimacy with John suggested he was gay as I felt deeply it had to be addressed…
    Jesus was a Hebrew rabbi. Unusually, he was unmarried. The idea that he had a romantic relationship with Mary Magdalene is the stuff of fiction, based on no biblical evidence. The evidence, on the other hand, that he may have been what we today call gay is very strong.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/apr/20/was-jesus-gay-probably

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  126. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    Ah lost my link But found it againBut t here manolo and othetsz who bleat about the nefarious evil of multitculturalism,

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11188259

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  127. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea, probably as gay as Apostle Paul, who said if a man lusted for a woman he should marry. He was supposedly unmarried himself and thus never experienced the immoral dog (aroused circumcised male penis) of the flesh of a Jew.

    I suspect that Apostle Paul was once called Lazarus and he left behind a number of widows in the flesh at this death and resurrection. After all he could hardly preach chastity and monogamy to the baptised Greeks if he was still a Jewish polygamist in the flesh himself.

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  128. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Bikinis are highly sexualised clothing…no respectable woman would model it for the designer, who was forced to hire a stripper …that video looks to be very disturbing… Would people boycott Air NZ over that safety video – maybe.

    “Compared to an Islamic preacher in Australia who likened women who don’t dress appropriately to “uncovered meat”.

    See the difference?”

    NO

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  129. Lucia Maria (2,651 comments) says:

    Kea,

    Jesus being gay is probably the most ridiculous theory that people have come up with in recent times about Him. I could point you to a number of serious refutations that have been made, but given how you have trouble with the counters to the points you think your various Bible quotes made, it’s very likely a complete waste of time. If anyone else is interested, however, I will post one by Steve Ray that is particularly good.

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  130. Maggy Wassilieff (483 comments) says:

    @ Kea…. re feminist harpies and the professional stuff they do being absurd….

    I’ll just have to take your word for that; as a demure little housewife I’m in no position to offer an opinion on the absurdity or otherwise of this opus:

    http://ijpor.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/05/09/ijpor.edt009

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  131. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Lucy I have given no bible quotes on this topic. I cut and pasted the considered views of others. The most recent was from a learned Priest. Write to him not me. :)

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  132. big bruv (14,217 comments) says:

    ” I could point you to a number of serious refutations that have been made”

    Lol…so Jesus was not gay but he could heel the blind and cure the sick?

    Which of those three is more likely to have been true Lucia?

    Face it, your Jesus was a poof.

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  133. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Maggy Wassilieff, you could be right. Now run along and get dinner on for your man. Don’t forget to act demure and don’t make him pray before he eats either ;)

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  134. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    big bruv, Jesus was supposed to be a chippy, but the bible makes little mention of his work. After considering all the available evidence and hearing the compelling evidence of a Priest and professional theologian, I have the view he was probably a kept man or a rent boy.

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  135. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    It’s an interesting issue, the circumcision one. Clearly it predates Islam and the rate of female circumcision in Saudi Arabia/Palestine/Lebanon/Syria/Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan/Pakistan is very low.

    Most common in sub-Saharan and north-east Africa, as well as in Yemen (neighbouring Eritrea/Ethiopia and Somalia where the rate is high) and Iraqi Kurdistan. It’s spread to Yemen and the Iraqi Kurd area (not other Kurds) is the exception to the rule that this is an African practice.

    Moslem leaders tend to speak against the practice and say it is not of Islam.

    Most of the governments have laws against the practice but it continues anyway. In Egypt physicians carry it out. It seems to be a cycle of abuse, as the abuse victim passes it onto their own female children. The logic appears to be it is “the tradition for us women” that the daughter must carry on. As it is done to the child before they can rebel against the tradition they themselves are enslaved to it against their will.

    It is interesting that a Jewish Rabbi would argue that Jews should give up their infant male circumcision (relatively harmless) to lend support to a campaign against circumcision of all children/minors.

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  136. Lucia Maria (2,651 comments) says:

    Kea,

    The man is not ontologically a priest. He’s an Anglican, and it looks like a heretical one at that if he’s going around saying that Our Lord was gay. Doesn’t surprise me he’s a New Zealander, though.

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  137. Steve (North Shore) (4,536 comments) says:

    This must be the place where Meteria Turei gets her clothing:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/3dbdotgjeqtrv67/Photo0476.jpg

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  138. dime (10,212 comments) says:

    Wow Bruce and kea having a crack at religion. What a shock.

    Keep going guys, I reckon you’ll convince a few to give up their faith. Honest.

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  139. OneTrack (3,350 comments) says:

    “Funny – Metiria Turei just tweeted: “We know the Herald are National supporters but sheesh! “”

    Meteria would say Marx was a National supporter.

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  140. big bruv (14,217 comments) says:

    Kea

    Jesus being a chippie says a lot. Given that the “son of god” decided to show himself in one of the most desolate, illiterate and backward parts of the world (why did “God” not decide to send his son to China where they could already read and write?) I would have thought that tree’s might have been a bit thin on the ground in the desert and therefore not a lot of wood to work with. It is no wonder that the rent boy decided he needed a new gig to earn a crust or two.

    I must admit that the bit about the whole story that always gets me laughing (it is the same with Islam) is the bit about the bible being “written” by illiterate people and those who never witnessed anything first hand.

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  141. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    dime, thanks for taking time out from droning on with your tranquilising cricket commentary to show an interest in our work. I hope you are not neglecting your Yoga though ! ;)

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  142. Maggy Wassilieff (483 comments) says:

    @ kea… I can multitask… chicken grilling nicely…. I did ask the husband if he would consider becoming a priest some years ago, as I thought he’d look quite fetching in a cassock and NZ was rather bereft of Orthodox priests, but alas the occult had greater appeal.

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  143. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    big bruv, all Jews were taught to read and have been for c3000 years. Every Jew was to be able to read the Torah by the time they were 13. Literacy was the means to the indoctrination. The claim that the word was made in the flesh was only relevant to a literate people claiming to be of the House of Abraham – the Isaac covenant.

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  144. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    big bruv, yes Islam is the same. There is more difference between some Christian sects than between Islam and Christianity generally. I wonder if Mohammed was a fag too ? Certainly many Muslims seem to like the cock, but not on the industrial scale of Catholic clergy.

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  145. nasska (12,095 comments) says:

    ….”Literacy was the means to the indoctrination”….

    A truth not lost on the Christian church. They kept indoctrination as the price of an education for nearly 1500 years.

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  146. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Maggy Wassilieff , living proof all the good ones are taken.

    Maybe I will go like Jesus and start craving cock.

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  147. nasska (12,095 comments) says:

    ….”Certainly many Muslims seem to like the cock”…..

    Have a look at some of their women Kea….the prettier ones trim their moustaches.

    Goats & gayness are logical substitutes. :)

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  148. Lucia Maria (2,651 comments) says:

    The difference between the Catholic chastity speaker and the Islamic preacher is in their attitude to women and why it’s better for women to dress more modestly.

    The Catholic chastity speaker explains what is going on in a man’s brain that affects how he relates to a mostly unclothed woman, but within all that there is still this underlying expectation that men should behave themselves no matter how a woman is dressed. This is inherent in Catholicism and in Christian societies in general that men a held accountable if they do something to a scantily clad woman – self control is expected. The chastity speaker asks women not to wear the bikini so the man is not distracted by her body and instead is able to relate to her as a person.

    While as the Islamic guy blames the woman for what happens to her, likening her to uncovered meat that cats cannot help but eat if they happen to see it, ie Muslim men have no control over themselves just like animals such as cats have no control over themselves. As such, women have to be covered with sack like clothes because their men are animals.

    Let’s just pull out the quotes, so they can be shown in their full glory:

    In a Ramadam sermon in a Sydney mosque, Sheik al-Hilali suggested that a group of Muslim men recently jailed for many years for gang rapes were not entirely to blame.

    There were women, he said, who ‘sway suggestively’ and wore make-up and immodest dress “and then you get a judge without mercy and gives you 65 years. But the problem, but the problem all began with who?” he said, referring to the women victims.

    Addressing 500 worshippers on the topic of adultery, Sheik al-Hilali added: “If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it..whose fault is it – the cats or the uncovered meat?

    “The uncovered meat is the problem.”

    He went on: “If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab (veil), no problem would have occurred.”

    Women, he said, were ‘weapons’ used by Satan to control men.

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  149. big bruv (14,217 comments) says:

    SPC

    Sorry but you are wrong. Even the most ardent believers in the sky fairy will not put the literacy rate of Jews at more than 3%

    As I said before, it is no coincidence that the son of god chose to show himself in one of the most illiterate parts of the world. Had be decided on parts of Europe or China he would be have been laughed out of town as a fraud of which he undoubtedly was.

    It is my contention that illiteracy was the main reason the god joke caught on. Any educated society would have given the man the flick pretty soon after he arrived.

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  150. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Lucy that is not what Islam says at all. They say dressing immodestly demeans women. Just the same as you Catholics do. If you want to start pulling out the ramblings of extremists then you will lose that pissing contest badly.

    Note how nuns cover their head and Christian women have traditionally done so as well. They still do in many places. Face it, there is more in common with Islam than points of difference.

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  151. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Any educated society would have given the man the flick pretty soon after he arrived.

    big bruv, possible so, but we now know he was a flaming homosexual and may have been taken in by the gay community where he amassed a following due to his charming nature and his ability to love all men, no matter what !

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  152. dime (10,212 comments) says:

    bruv – amazing point!! keep going!!

    you should go door knocking on the weekends. thats pretty much the level youre at. annoying as fuck.

    kea – not my problem youre from some filthy race who dont play cricket :D feel free to update us on the latest camel racing results or whatever it is you people do.

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  153. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    “Have a look at some of their women Kea….the prettier ones trim their moustaches.

    Goats & gayness are logical substitutes.”

    nasska is clearly trying to legitimise his lust for livestock. Or he is a bigger queer than Jesus.

    http://ugandamuslims.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/a-typical-beautiful-woman.jpg

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  154. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    “whatever it is you people do.”

    Fuck Christians.

    (Well Hindus, Buddhists, Muslim, Atheists, Taoists, Pagans….)

    Just like you once did before you got all loved up and started watching cricket and doing Yoga. She must be smoking hot is all I can say ! ;)

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  155. stigie (1,439 comments) says:

    nasska is clearly trying to legitimise his lust for livestock. Or he is a bigger queer than Jesus.

    Nasska is his own man there Kea, nothing wrong with the livestock !!~

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  156. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    big bruv, it is simply a fact that Jews were required to be literate by age 13 – your equation of literacy with education and education with thinking the way you do demonstrates you have a lot in common with cult leaders.

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  157. big bruv (14,217 comments) says:

    Thanks Dime.

    If ever you want to learn something about fighting the god botherers you only need ask.

    If I ever want to know something about fucking pox infested sluts then I will be sure to give you a call.

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  158. nasska (12,095 comments) says:

    Thanks stigie……I think. :)

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  159. cha (4,138 comments) says:

    As I said before, it is no coincidence that the son of god chose to show himself in one of the most illiterate parts of the world.

    Coincidence?.

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  160. dime (10,212 comments) says:

    “If ever you want to learn something about fighting the god botherers you only need ask.”

    dont feel the need to fight em. we are in NZ. they hardly have a say. if national was controlled by the religious right things may be different.

    not sure why atheists feel the need to try and destroy someone elses faith. something that obviously brings them joy and comfort. its just.. mean.. maybe its the only time they feel smart?

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  161. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    big bruv, the Jews believed, because of their literacy, in the coming of their Messiah, but this royal of the Jews would only impress Gentiles if he were also son of God. Thus if the disciples were to build a religion amongst the Gentiles (share their religion with the Gentiles) they would have to present this/their Messiah as a son of God.

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  162. big bruv (14,217 comments) says:

    Don’t feel the need to destroy it Dime, I just want the fuckers to stay out of my life. If you are happy to be dictated to by the religious nutters and told how to live your life because of their beliefs then so be it.

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  163. dime (10,212 comments) says:

    bruv – how are they in your life? a few people on here?

    youre like a fag, ya dont know when youve won!

    they have no say in nz anymore

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  164. mandk (1,030 comments) says:

    Kea: “There are recorded instances of same-sex activity”

    You are keen on quoting the Bible, Kea. Give us chapter and verse in the NT, involving Jesus or his Apostles.

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  165. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    If I ever want to know something about fucking pox infested sluts then I will be sure to give you a call.

    Why can’t every body just get along nicely on KB LOL :)

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  166. dime (10,212 comments) says:

    “If I ever want to know something about fucking pox infested sluts then I will be sure to give you a call.

    Why can’t every body just get along nicely on KB LOL”

    i didnt take that as an insult?

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  167. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    mandk, sorry I can not take credit for the Preists work. You will need to read the Priests article or the hundreds of biblical references available online dealing with Jesus and his rampant gayness.

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  168. mandk (1,030 comments) says:

    Kea: “Chaplain Paul Oestreicher:

    Was Jesus gay? Probably”

    Isn’t it interesting that Oestreicher doesn’t offer any scriptural evidence to support his comment. It’s just idle and prurient speculation.

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  169. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    mandk, he is a trained theologian who has spent his life studying the bible. There are numerous supporting texts from the bible if you are interested. I did not write the article. Don’t ask me.

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  170. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    The link on this didn’t work:

    For a more trenchant leftwing critique of Metiria Turei’s allegations, see John Moore’s blogpost, The Elite politician that cried racism. He argues that Turei’s defence of her ‘opulent’ clothes reflects her integration into Establishment politics, and that her claims of racism demean real experience of racism in New Zealand.

    http://liberation.typepad.com/liberation/2014/02/john-moore-the-elite-politician-that-cried-racism.html

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  171. dad4justice (6,594 comments) says:

    Anybody seen me mate redbaiter?

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  172. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    These days he occasionally pops up on Twitter.

    @Redbaiternz

    The left pretty much hold political supremacy in NZ and as always strategy is to try & marginalise those who disagree with them.

    Same old condensed to 140 characters.

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  173. mandk (1,030 comments) says:

    Kea: “mandk, sorry I can not take credit for the Preists work. You will need to read the Priests article or the hundreds of biblical references available online dealing with Jesus and his rampant gayness.”

    What a cop out!

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  174. mandk (1,030 comments) says:

    Kea: “mandk, he is a trained theologian who has spent his life studying the bible”

    Which is precisely why he should have been able to quote Biblical evidence, if there was any.

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  175. nasska (12,095 comments) says:

    A homeless wino passes out in the street next to a gay bar. That night one of the bar’s patrons leaves the bar and sees the wino asleep on the street. He rolls the wino over, has his way with him and slips a $10 note in his pocket. In the morning the wino wakes up, finds the $10, and heads for the local bottle shop. He goes inside and asks the attendant, “Give me $10 worth of your cheapest wine.”

    The attendant hands him a bottle, the wino leaves and resumes his position on the street.

    That night the same man leaves the gay bar, only to find the wino passed out on the street again. He rolls the wino over, has his way with him and slips a $10 bill in his pocket. In the morning the wino wakes up, finds the $10, and heads for the local bottle shop. He goes inside and asks the attendant, “Give me $10 worth of your cheapest wine.”

    The attendant hands him a bottle, the wino leaves and resumes his position on the street.

    That night the man and three of his friends leave the gay bar. They see the wino and decide to share. They take turns rolling the wino over and having their way with him. Each of them leaves a $10 bill in the wino’s pocket. In the morning the wino wakes up, sees the $40, heads to the bottle shop and slaps the $40 down on the counter. The attendant says, “Let me guess, $40 worth of our cheapest wine?”

    “No,” said the wino, “Give me whiskey. That wine is tearing my arse up.”

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  176. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    Paul Ostreicher has had an interesting, if somewhat checkered career. But his main claim to fame was promoting , championing and writing about the ” Christian – Marxist Dialogue.”
    But this was before the likes of Alexander Solzhenitsyn really came to the fore and upset the apple cart so to speak.
    Ostreicher uses highly tenuous and dubious strands of evidence to try and show Jesus was gay.!
    Kea, supporting texts.?
    Examples please.?

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  177. Lucia Maria (2,651 comments) says:

    MandK,

    Sorry I didn’t answer you earlier. Got distracted!

    Not sure you are correct. Most of the objectification of women that hits me in the eye seems to be by women, for women. The fashion and gossip mags are the worst.

    That is true, those mags do have women editors (but are they owned by women? I don’t know) however, I know of a number of mothers of my generation (a good number not Christian, more of the New Age persuasion) who object to sexualisation. I think they first realised it was a problem when they had daughters, and after that, they got thinking. Not sure how widespread this is in NZ, as this is only people I know. However, in the US, there is a definitive shift, given how Hollywood has responded.

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  178. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    “The practice of sport is a human right. Every individual must have the possibility of practicing sport, without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play.” –Olympic Charter

    Given the abuse of women around the world, the circumcision of young females, and that homosexuality is legal in Russia, the campaign around the Sochi Games is over the top.

    Sure Putin’s equation of homosexuality with pedophilia is as silly as some beliefs about AIDS in South Africa. But the resulting law in Russia, preventing the issue of homosexuality being raised with those under 18, is not even amongst the major human rights offences within Russia let alone the wider world.

    And the law has no impact on participation in sport within Russia or by athletes in Russia.

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  179. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Looking further into the female circumcision thing, it appears that female slaves who were circumcised sold at a premium price. And that the peoples who traded in slaves to markets such as the one in Egypt (they also exported slaves to the east – as far as the Persian Gulf) were influenced by this.

    Few of the Egyptian female mummies showed signs of circumcision, though there is a report of a daughter of a highly placed Egyptian official having been circumcised (but not the reason why) just after 2000BCE. Only a guess but a female dedicated into a (religious ritual) service may have been circumcised.

    This becoming the practice for those owning slaves and thus those trading in them. African nations from which the slaves came may have thought that women who were so abused were more desirable to those of the nations they were taken to and so emulated the practice locally.

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  180. Viking2 (11,672 comments) says:

    There’s a man sitting at a bar just looking at his drink. He stays like that for half an hour. Then, a big trouble-making truck driver steps next to him, takes the drink from the guy, and just drinks it all down.

    The poor man starts crying. The truck driver says, “Come on man, I was just joking. Here, I’ll buy you another drink. I just can’t stand seeing a man crying.”

    “No, it’s not that. This day is the worst of my life. First, I fall asleep, and I’m late to my office. My boss, in an outrage, fires me. When I leave the building to my car, I found out it was stolen. The police say they can do nothing. I get a cab to return home and when I leave it, I remember I left my wallet and credit cards there. The cab driver just drives away. I go home and when I get there, I find my wife sleeping with the gardener. I leave home and come to this bar. And when I was thinking about putting an end to my life, you show up and drink my poison.”

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  181. Viking2 (11,672 comments) says:

    A man walks into a pub and sits down next to a man with a dog at his feet. “Does your dog bite?”

    “No.”

    A few minutes later the dog takes a huge chunk out of his leg.

    “I thought you said your dog didn’t bite!” the man says indignantly.

    “That’s not my dog.”

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  182. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    SPC, why do you not mention male circumcision ? The biggest Muslim country in the world, and many others, use a form of female circumcision that is probably less invasive than standard male circumcision. Yes I know how barbaric it can get and I am opposed to all of it. But why do you insist on painting this bullshit picture of women as victims ? You clearly know very few Muslim women. They are no less religious than the men and support this nonsense. The actual act is carried out by women.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/magazine/20circumcision-t.html?_r=0

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  183. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Lucy:

    1. Women are sexualising themselves. They spend trillions of dollars a year to look sexy. They enjoy it.

    2. It is normal.

    3. It is good.

    4. Sex is not sinful or bad. (If it is then you are doing it wrong.)

    5. Being un-sexy does not make you more moral or good.

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  184. cha (4,138 comments) says:

    Yay for circumcision.
    //

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/08/nyregion/infants-death-renews-debate-over-a-circumcision-ritual.html

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  185. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea,

    1. this is not a Moslem issue – most Moslem women are not circumcised, yet in many African nations most women are (including one Ethiopia where the major religion is not Islam).
    2. nearly all female circumcision in Egypt is carried out by physicians (mostly men) not by women.
    3. “mere” removal of the clitoris is not more invasive than some foreskin.
    4. circumcised women are victims, that their mothers support the abuse does not change that. That they are inducted into the abuse and then perpetuate the tradition by doing it to their own daughters does not mean it is not abuse of women.

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  186. Ross12 (1,484 comments) says:

    Another Green MP caught out with BS. Good on the Government of Nauru calling for an apology from Jan Logie. These Greens are getting more and more desperate for headlines.

    http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/21326272/nauru-calls-on-green-partys-jan-logie-to-apologise/

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  187. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    SPC, you really are an ignorant bullshit artist led more by fantasy than fact. Most female circumcision does not involve cutting off the clitoris. That is clearly at the more invasive and brutal end. The biggest Muslim population in the world is in Indonesia, but you keep raving about Africa. It is no where near the biggest Muslim population and nor is any Middle Eastern country. Try doing more learning and less brain farting.

    Still no mention of how you feel about boys suffering genital mutilation. Why is that ?

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  188. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Almost missed this little gem from SPC

    Kea,

    1. this is not a Moslem issue

    Yeah it is a big problem among Presbyterians and the caving community too. Idiot !

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  189. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Jew infects baby with herpes while sucking its cock after some genital mutilation. Baby dies. ! Religion is sick.

    The cause of death of the 2-week-old boy, who died at Maimonides Hospital in Brooklyn on Sept. 28, was Type 1 herpes, caused by “ritual circumcision with oral suction,” according to the medical examiner’s office.

    The ritual of oral suction — or in Hebrew, metzitzah b’peh — is practiced almost exclusively in ultra-Orthodox communities and, to a lesser degree, in Orthodox Jewish communities, despite efforts by the city to curtail it and educate communities about its health risks. The procedure occurs during the circumcision ritual of the bris, as the practitioner, or mohel, removes the foreskin of the penis and then sucks the blood from the wound to clean it.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/08/nyregion/infants-death-renews-debate-over-a-circumcision-ritual.html

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  190. cha (4,138 comments) says:

    Nauru’s deported it’s only magistrate and banned the Chief Justice but there’s no chaos – get that man a Tui!.

    Nauru’s Australian-based chief justice, Geoffrey Eames, says a decision to ban him from the country and to deport the nation’s chief magistrate is politically motivated.

    Nauru’s president Baron Waqa fired chief magistrate and supreme court registrar Peter Law yesterday and ordered him to leave the country.

    When Justice Eames issued injunctions to try to stop Mr Law’s deportation, his own visa to return to the country this morning was cancelled.

    http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/international/2014-01-20/naurus-chief-justice-geoffrey-eames-says-visa-cancellation-is-politically-motivated/1250648

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  191. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea, as to what female circumcision involves – the practice involves one or more of several procedures, which vary according to the ethnic group. They include removal of all or part of the clitoris and clitoral hood; all or part of the clitoris and inner labia; and in its most severe form (infibulation) all or part of the inner and outer labia and the fusion of the wound. In this last procedure, which the WHO calls Type III FGM, a small hole is left for the passage of urine and menstrual blood, and the wound is opened up for intercourse and childbirth.

    The practice in SE Asia is the least invasive – involving cutting off part of the clitoris, and this is still more invasive than removal of the male foreskin.

    It appears to have arrived in Asia with Arab Moslem slave traders – Moslems. But the fact that Moslem scholars do not defend it as of Islam is indicative that its origins are with the culture of the group spreading Islam rather than the religion itself.

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  192. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea, if it was a Moslem thing then 74% of Ethiopian women would not have been circumcised nor would the rate in Egypt been 97% at one point when 10% of the nation were Christian.

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  193. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    SPC, I may have been a bit harsh. I see your point now ;)

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  194. Lucia Maria (2,651 comments) says:

    Kea,

    Boys don’t need to give birth to babies through their penis, therefore it is not stressed to the level that a woman’s anatomy is if it’s been messed with. I remember reading a while back of a number of doctors in Britain having to deal with women that have had the “more brutal end” of female circumcision done to them when they are giving birth. They have to basically cut them open and then stitch them right back up again. If you’ve never given birth before, you wouldn’t realise that a great level of stretch is required for even us intact women to given birth without damage, let alone if a woman has been mutilated. To even compare FGM with male circumcision is ridiculous.

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  195. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    I have thought about raising the same point myself a few times, but it would be hopeless around these parts. Many of the things Islam is accused of are actually more cultural than religious. They simply try and define it on religious grounds. Of course not just Muslims do this.

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  196. cha (4,138 comments) says:

    “more brutal end” of female circumcision done to them

    Damn Muslims must be infibulating all over the place.

    http://www.irinnews.org/report/71244/nepal-more-than-600-000-women-suffer-uterine-prolapses

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  197. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Lucy, you don’t push babies out from under the clitoral hood dear, not even Catholic girls ;)

    I have had [cough] relations with a few Muslim girls. Their girly bits worked just fine though I could see they had been tampered with a bit.

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  198. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea, maybe the practice amongst Arabs began via their association with slave trading?

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  199. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    cha, that is awful. What is the cause of such high prevalence ?

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  200. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    I should not have said practice amongst Arabs more the influence of Arab slave traders on those they brought Islam to in SE Asia*. In Saudi Arabia there is little circumcision of females, nor in Pakistan/the sub continent (bar Sri Lanka)*.

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  201. cha (4,138 comments) says:

    Reading the article it looks to be the same old same old, Kea, caste, ignorance and indifference to their suffering.

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  202. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEADS NZ GVT AND AUS GVT
    EXPATS DO NOT NEED YOU

    WE NEED YOU TO STOP THIEVING AND GET OUT OF OUR LIVES

    KEY AND ABBOT ARE IRRELEVANT

    THE INVASION AND TAKE OVER OF AUSTRALIA WILL GO ON AS PLANNED
    WITH OR WITH OUT YOUR ASSISTANCE TO OUR MONEY

    WHAT YOU NEED TO DO IS GET OUTTA THE WAY

    WE WILL CAN LOOK AFTER OURSELVES THANKS

    ONE WANTS OUR MONEY

    THE OTHER WANTS OUR VOTES

    YOU SHOULD ALL KNOW

    NOTHING FOR NOTHING

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  203. Nostalgia-NZ (5,318 comments) says:

    Need an aspro?

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  204. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    GET THIS I WILL DO WHAT I LIKE WHEN I LIKE IN AUS OR NZ

    TRY STOP ME

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  205. Nostalgia-NZ (5,318 comments) says:

    Try a hearing aid.

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  206. Longknives (4,953 comments) says:

    I’m missing your point Ben- Stop shouting!

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  207. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    cha, caste, ignorance and indifference do not cause prolapse. Sometimes the world breaks my heart. But it puts our first world problems into perspective !

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  208. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Ben Dover, you need to comment more often :)

    Still got problems with that sticky caps lock I see. Try shouting at it.

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  209. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    “Need an aspro?”

    He might tomorrow Nosty. Personally I find his bold style refreshing. He also found new insults for the kea troll last week, which is always interesting :)

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  210. Longknives (4,953 comments) says:

    I’m sick of the sight of Schapelle Corby already! And after her lawyer saying they are going to celebrate her release with a massive joint (and all the publicity about her family’s drug exploits) is there anyone on the planet who thinks she is still ‘innocent’?

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  211. cha (4,138 comments) says:

    Worse – obstetric fistula.

    http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2011/07/15/addis-ababa-fistula-hospital-pioneers-in-obstetric-fistula/

    http://www.irinnews.org/report/98392/boost-for-fistula-treatment-in-liberia

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  212. cha (4,138 comments) says:

    Sympathy for Corby’s a variation on the missing white woman syndrome Longknives.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome

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  213. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    cha [The high level of fistula has also been linked to high rates of female circumcision, which can lead to birth complications and obstructed labour, and the high incidence of rape of teenage girls, according to the Gender Ministry, which cited 2,493 cases of reported rape of minors in 2012. ]

    FFS!

    I try not to think about Africa. It upsets me too much.

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  214. Longknives (4,953 comments) says:

    Frighteningly Cha I think I agree with you on that one (Christ I’m reaching for the Scotch…)

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  215. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    I agree 100%

    Look at the fuss and saturation coverage when an attractive young sexy blonde goes missing or dies !

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  216. cha (4,138 comments) says:

    I know the feeling, on occasion I’ve agreed with Red and kowtow.

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  217. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    I have frequently upticked them both LOL :)

    Though they claim to never agree with me !

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  218. Lucia Maria (2,651 comments) says:

    Kea,

    When giving birth, everything stretches. Including the more delicate bits. I’ve experienced it. Both babies had big heads, in the 95th and 100th percentile respectively. I think I reiterated my “never again”, after the last one.

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  219. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Lucy, it was not long ago that deaths of both mothers and babies were common, even in the more prosperous countries. It takes a huge toll on a woman’s body.

    There are evolutionary reasons why, though you probably prefer the biblical reason.

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  220. Left Right and Centre (3,007 comments) says:

    So I’m at the supermarket just now…..

    At the bulk bins…

    Staring at me is a big wide fat as fuck miserable looking old white bitch. Fuck she was huge.

    She just kept on staring…..

    She’s never seen anyone in their healthy weight range. Let alone in shape.

    I was very very glad to be me at that moment in time. Fuck she was enormous. A big fat retard. Maybe 130-150kg. Far out. And dream on whale woman.

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  221. safesally (47 comments) says:

    Lucia Maria
    You don’t have to explain yourself to anyone. Kea often makes a fool out of himself (or herself), lets not get overwhelmed by his or her crap.
    Some things are easier said than done.

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  222. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea, I rarely uptick or downtick your comments. It’s hard to determine when you have been especially offensive or insightful and deserving of the recognition on the particular occasion.

    Others will be provoked to respond if I do not.

    It is a hard thing to do – contribute with sufficient panache to provoke yet at a level beyond the reach of the commonplace of the lazy bottom of the garden, deliberately and deservedly hidden away, troll.

    The same problem now exists with satire, it’s more difficult to send up politicians when they include all sorts under MMP. The difference between a press release and satire is harder and harder to spot.

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  223. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Is a Norwegian (one of the oil rich Arabs of Europe) women dating Benjamin Netanyahu junior a bigger threat to Jewish life than Hitler? (warning a Jewish attempt at satire is in this report about inter-marriage being a threat to the state of Israel).

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26067980

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  224. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    LIKE I SAID WE ARE TAKING OVER AUSTRALIA ON BEHALF OF NZ

    I WILL ASK THE QUESTIONS YOU WILL DO AS I SAY

    The Funniest Australian political website is

    http://tonyfuckingabbott.com/
    At least 7892 people have sworn about Tony Abbott on Twitter recently.

    Now someone has to start another

    Johnf88ingkey.com

    otherwise he might feel left out like they say in AUS
    FIFO

    Fit in or F88k off

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  225. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Do you know what the worst bit of SCUM BAG DIRT WAD

    Centre Right flim flam chicken SH*T

    AUS NZ TAXATION legislation is

    They have the cheek to claim
    CAPITAL F**KING GAINS TAX =on your NZ property
    if you work here for 6 years

    Bad enough subsidising their house o’s

    Yep the scum bags do pretty bloody darn well out of the Special Category Visa Kiwis

    Key wants our Votes Tony wants our Money and do your know something
    they can _ _ _

    Christ as if the Treaty is not bad enough Labour signed us up for that C R A P

    Good one D heads

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  226. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Multiculturalism for Israel and Communist China

    Multiculturalism for Israel and Communist China

    Multiculturalism for Israel and Communist China

    Multiculturalism for Israel and Communist China

    Hurrah

    You promote it them practice it

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  227. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Jesus did I dare to Question our Nations Founding Document

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  228. big bruv (14,217 comments) says:

    Is anybody still a Jessie Ryder fan?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/9698643/Doug-Bracewell-Jesse-Ryder-back-in-trouble

    We don’t need him, he is trouble. All those who have tried to help the man have wasted their time. NZC should just say “see ya later Jessie” and let him crawl back to the shit hole that is Naenae.

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