Jones leading again

February 28th, 2014 at 3:00 pm by David Farrar

The Herald reports:

Labour Maori Affairs spokesman has slammed a new rule requiring Auckland property owners to seek iwi approval to work on sites of cultural and heritage value to Maori, calling it dangerous and an extra compliance cost.

Mr Jones is opposed to the rule in Auckland Council’s draft Unitary Plan that requiring applicants carrying out work on 3600 sites of “value to mana whenua” to obtain a “cultural impact assessment” form one or more of 19 iwi groups.

“As someone who was involved in the core group which wrote the Resource Management Act in 1988-1989 never in our wildest dreams did we imagine it would lead to 19 new consent authorities over the Tamaki Makaurau area.

“The proponents need to balance heritage against the cost pressure of developing housing and land so that the final product is affordable,” Mr Jones said.

Well done Shane on calling it straight. Out of interest has anyone asked Labour’s other Maori MPs if they agree with Shane? Most importantly does their Leader agree with Shane?

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50 Responses to “Jones leading again”

  1. contheneo (27 comments) says:

    More importantly does Cunliffe agree with something he said 5 weeks ago, let along 5 min ago.

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  2. RF (1,454 comments) says:

    Good call by Shane. Far more impressive than his lame duck leader.

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  3. alex Masterley (1,523 comments) says:

    I have thank Mr Jones for reminding me about this twaddle.
    I filed a submission on the Unitary plan last night but omitted to deal with the consultation issue.
    I have now filed a supplementary submission asking for that bit to be excised from the Unitary plan.
    My confident prediction is that my submission has a snowballs chance of succeeding but at least I have made a submission.

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  4. Colville (2,300 comments) says:

    What an awesome rort that would be.
    How much would you charge for a

    “cultural impact assessment”

    ???
    Hmmm…. how big is the project…how hard can I squeeze it…3% of total project value? 5% ?
    Do I need a new Beemer or a trip this month?

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  5. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Shane is really going for leadership of this foundering party. If he is true to his word of late, he may just be what they need . . . sure as hell those with intelligence don’t believe McCarten to be the answer.

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  6. Nigel Kearney (1,051 comments) says:

    The article also says:

    Mr Jones said the solution was to leave the issue of dealing with sites of significance to mana whenua with the council as the consenting agency.

    Not sure what that means but it doesn’t necessary sound like an improvement.

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  7. RRM (10,034 comments) says:

    So you’d have to ask your local Iwi ™ for permission to build, if you’re unlucky enough to live near somewhere a Maori ™ once did something?

    Sounds like a nice little earner for the Iwi ™ .. I wonder what would be the expected koha ™ you’d have to hand over before you’d get Maori ™ approval to build a deck? Or a garage?

    All hail the Maori ™, New Zealand’s own royalty.

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  8. convicted radical (65 comments) says:

    Well, why don’t we start with the erection in the Ngati Whatua Room then!

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  9. mandk (1,020 comments) says:

    Another question: did anyone actually ask tangata whenua whether they were interested in getting “cultural impact assessments”, or was the whole ghastly idea dreamed up by a bunch of bleeding-heart, liberal council officials?

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  10. david (2,564 comments) says:

    @Colville 3:05

    But wait there’s more. If you really hit the jackpot you might need assessments from 6 or 7 different
    IWI groups each determining their own fee structure. whooppee

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  11. shoreboy57 (140 comments) says:

    just another gravy train

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  12. UrbanNeocolonialist (310 comments) says:

    Yes, well said. Anytime you hand another group (be they local govt, quango or racial based) more control or power over what can be done with private property you are just opening the door to even more corruption, (I have a friend in property development in Auckland who has been getting shaken down by bureaucrats in the consenting process but can’t complain to police for fear reprisals and loss of goodwill could hurt his business).

    What is less obvious than the up front charges and compliance costs that they impose is the time they suck up as they work at glacial speed through their processes, to-ing and fro-ing each step of the way – which translates into massive increases in financing costs, not to mention the risk they add to any project where one of the consent gate-keeper groups can, on a whim, or to increase pressure for a bigger bribe (or koha for iwi) say no and wipe huge amounts of value off a property – those costs, and the less efficient use of capital they lead to are ultimately being borne by the market.

    Subdivision developments that used to take 6-12 months 10 years ago are now taking several years.

    So environment, iwi and other special interest groups should be legislatively barred from any input and control over building consent processes – as it is just a means for enabling extortion, increasing costs without adding value to the wider community. Property owners rights should not come second to those of groups that have no financial stake, and who bear no cost for ‘no’ (with reasonable but clearly defined allowances for existing neighbours and local govt).

    Secondly, the consenting process should be taken away from bureaucrats and handed over to competing private businesses – who would have to adhere to the rules, and who would be required to insure their decisions against damages caused by failures in their judgement. Multiple competitive providers would speed things up and end the corruption sole-provider bureaucracies enable.

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  13. James Stephenson (2,233 comments) says:

    just another gravy train

    Same train, they just keep adding more carriages to it.

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  14. Colville (2,300 comments) says:

    I can say hand on heart that I have been in a resource consent hearing for a subdivision where the locals who had a marae 2 blocks over from mine asked me to pay for the right to take “their water” if I was to put a bore down.
    They were told no.
    They then said that they wanted to have a cultural overseer to watch over the earthworks/roading. I am pretty sure we agreed that it would be 50 hours work (its a while ago) which they would be paid for. I agreed and it went in the consent, afterall I do not want to dig up human bones and if I did I would want to be respecful. I may be a propery developer but I am not a total cu*t. Some may argue that point tho :-)
    I sold the land with consent in place.
    Young aggressive bright spark from Wellington purchased it. Told the locals to go fu*k themselves when it came to paying the bill for the cultural side of things.
    Next thing you know historic places visits site and finds a few old fire pits (its by the sea, you always have old fires with shells in them) and shuts the site down for 20 months, at the end of 20 months nothing was found.
    Young chap went broke.

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  15. tedbear (152 comments) says:

    Slightly off topic, but there’s nothing pisses me off more than the mixing of english and maori in one sentence.
    While it is an official language of NZ, I have zero interest in the maori language.

    Like most people, I like to keep abreast of local and world news, reading most online.
    So when I see something like “value to mana whenua” I say to myself, wtf is that?
    I shouldn’t have to go to Google Translate in order to read and understand local news.

    Ok, what I have referred to is in a council plan and that I guess is where the herald got it’s news item from so what I’m really asking for is a plan in english for the likes of me and the majority of NZers and another in maori.

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  16. Richard Hurst (874 comments) says:

    Easy answer to this- don’t live in Auckland.

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  17. holysheet (433 comments) says:

    One can assume from the above comments that because “pants down brown” used the ngati whatua room for his dirty little liaisons, from now on every user will have to get permission from the iwi to use it?
    They would then have to pay koha and have the place fumigated after every use.
    One never knows what the previous user has been up to but because PDB set the tone you cannot be too careful.

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  18. Colville (2,300 comments) says:

    Richard Hurst
    Where Auckland leads the other councils will follow.

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  19. wreck1080 (3,972 comments) says:

    maoris aren’t gonna complain — pigs in the snout, rorting fees from people who actually work for their money.

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  20. wreck1080 (3,972 comments) says:

    @richard – what starts in auckland filters to the other areas.

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  21. tedbear (152 comments) says:

    Cmon holysheet, gimme a break will ya?
    Don’t you really mean “get permission from the tribe to use it and give them KFC as a thank you”?

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  22. thePeoplesFlag (257 comments) says:

    Can someone just update me on the line from the Beehive again? Is it a) the Labour right is on a go slow to undermine Cunliffe, or b) the Labour right is actually working really hard to undermine Cunliffe? It is just the line seems inconsistant right now, that’s all.

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  23. thedavincimode (6,877 comments) says:

    wreck1080

    Which particular Maori? All of them?

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  24. nickb (3,696 comments) says:

    I assume some “koha” for the appropriate “cultural consultants” will smooth the way?

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  25. flash2846 (289 comments) says:

    So why is there no comment from a National MP or two? Another headline grabbed by Jones for Labour.

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  26. nickb (3,696 comments) says:

    I can say hand on heart that I have been in a resource consent hearing for a subdivision where the locals who had a marae 2 blocks over from mine asked me to pay for the right to take “their water” if I was to put a bore down.
    They were told no.
    They then said that they wanted to have a cultural overseer to watch over the earthworks/roading. I am pretty sure we agreed that it would be 50 hours work (its a while ago) which they would be paid for. I agreed and it went in the consent, afterall I do not want to dig up human bones and if I did I would want to be respecful. I may be a propery developer but I am not a total cu*t. Some may argue that point tho :-)
    I sold the land with consent in place.
    Young aggressive bright spark from Wellington purchased it. Told the locals to go fu*k themselves when it came to paying the bill for the cultural side of things.
    Next thing you know historic places visits site and finds a few old fire pits (its by the sea, you always have old fires with shells in them) and shuts the site down for 20 months, at the end of 20 months nothing was found.
    Young chap went broke.

    That is a very interesting story Colville and I have heard so many similar anecdotal tales to know that it’s not occasional.

    I’ve also heard a great deal about backhanders to council staff “smoothing” consent processes.

    Not sure which is worse.

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  27. mavxp (492 comments) says:

    picking up on davinci’s point.

    Some of you need to be a bit more careful with your language in terms of use of the word Maori to describe *some* Maori within their tribal institutions. All human institutions have their bad eggs.

    I would even say *some* is an exaggeration. Most people with some Maori forebears are well away from this kind of gravy train/ rort, and are busy trying to earn an honest living like the rest of us.

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  28. corrigenda (142 comments) says:

    What I find scary is that I have to acknowledge that Shane Jones is making sense for once!!! This is just another reason why the RMA should be booted out completely. That along with the Greens are holding back so much development in this country.

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  29. Fox (206 comments) says:

    Equally importantly: where the hell is the current ‘pro-development’ Govt on this?

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  30. wiseowl (936 comments) says:

    Yes Fox,forget about where other Labour MP’s are on this.
    Where the hell are the National MP’s?
    It is the current Government that is letting this rort develop. They are ones that should be stepping up and snuffing out this race based extortion.

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  31. J Bloggs (250 comments) says:

    Fox: As a Maori, Jones can get away with calling it as he sees it. If the Government tried it, you’d have the anti-Nat brigade screaming “Racists!!!” before you could blink

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  32. RF (1,454 comments) says:

    Colville.. I know responsible developers who whilst preparing building sites have destroyed evidence of Maori occupation rather than face months if not years of delays while the greedy bastards bleed them dry. Some sites were more than a few shells and Maori ovens that museums would give their eye teeth for. Unbridled Greed has its consequences.

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  33. alwyn (438 comments) says:

    “Most importantly does their Leader agree with Shane?”

    I have checked up on this and was unable to get an answer.
    I called David C and asked him. He told me he couldn’t give me an answer because he would have to find out what the answer was from his new boss. Matt something or other I think he said. He then added that he couldn’t speak to the public from now on unless he had had everthing he was going to say approved by that person. I guess that the Matt something is the Labour equivalent of the Green Party’s Clint.

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  34. dirty harry (517 comments) says:

    Its our own stupid fault for letting this sort of shit gain traction. We are to blame, we are fools.

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  35. Viking2 (11,575 comments) says:

    Maori will be seeking representation on Tauranga City Council in the 2016 elections, council’s Tangata Whenua Committee heard today.

    Committee member Puhirake Ihaka says the topic is introduced now in order to commence discussions on a review of Maori representation through Maori seats on the city council.

    – See more at: http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/65531-maori-seek-city-council-seats.html#sthash.RUcgVuTU.dpuf
    ==========================
    They are like cancer.

    Totally over represented.

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  36. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,924 comments) says:

    Nickb

    There’s none of that anymore in Fiji.

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  37. duggledog (1,589 comments) says:

    I’ll tell you where National are on this – it’s simple.

    They are waiting for a credible party to pick unpalatable things like this up and then when they are around the cabinet table ‘well, we were held to ransom by them’.

    That’s what I’d do. ‘If you don’t play the game, you can’t lose’ (The Wire, Season One)

    1Law4All Party – negative.
    Focus NZ (NZ Rural party) – negative
    NZ First – negative!!!

    CCCP – maybe…

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  38. OneTrack (3,237 comments) says:

    Two levels of citizenship. Maori and the rest.

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  39. Colville (2,300 comments) says:

    duggledog.

    IMHO you are quite right and I cannot blame Key for his stance, its just smart.

    Key used ACT to “force him” to bring in charters, this time around he will “use” various parties to pull all sorts of dirty “far right wing” tricks. Like racial equality!

    Shouldnt be hard as the opposition party(s) is total bollocks!

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  40. deadrightkev (537 comments) says:

    I agree the silence is deafening from the National party MPs regarding the Len Brown unitary plan.

    If ever there was proof that we have two socialist dictatorships taking turns at governing the country there it is.

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  41. lolitasbrother (751 comments) says:

    yes thanks Farrar, for article, and Shane Jones,
    and Geoff Palmer you old yellow tooth
    I thought we sent you to Greenland ten years ago, leave our Country now

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  42. lolitasbrother (751 comments) says:

    haha here he is , first off the block on this article
    contheneo (16 comments) says: February 28th, 2014 at 3:01 pm
    More importantly does Cunliffe agree with something he said 5 weeks ago, let along 5 min ago.

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  43. lolitasbrother (751 comments) says:

    sorry to come in again but Labour is dead, its a wrap, 2014 NZ NAT Govt

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  44. wreck1080 (3,972 comments) says:

    @thedavincimode:

    nah, just the maoris who are employed in the treaty industry. Mind you, you can’t blame them just as you cannot blame a child whose parents keep offering lollies.

    Plenty of hard working maoris out there who get nothing from their tribes.

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  45. Gerard Barry (28 comments) says:

    Shane Jone is giving the impression of being a mature adult, which augurs well for Labour.

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  46. Manolo (14,082 comments) says:

    More koha for the Stone Agers, please.

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  47. James Stephenson (2,233 comments) says:

    Slightly off topic, but there’s nothing pisses me off more than the mixing of english and maori in one sentence.
    While it is an official language of NZ, I have zero interest in the maori language.

    You better find some strategies to deal with that then, because if there’s one thing that characterises English, it’s the absorption and integration of words from other languages:

    “Craft ” well that’s Old English
    “Skill” is Norse
    “Cow”, English again
    “Beef”, French
    “Bungalow”, now that’s the Indian influence

    Don’t get hung up about using a word like “mana” where we don’t have an English word that encapsulates the concept so neatly, that’s the route to being like the French and their Academie Francais, trying to ban “Le weekend”

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  48. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    All for Maori being Charged by the Government
    for the Cultural and Heritage Value of using our “Culture and Heritage”
    I think they should pay us licence fees under the treaty of Waitangi for the
    Rental of our Culture and Heritage

    That is right IWI you PAY US

    Ponder that one

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  49. NZpatriot (5 comments) says:

    IWI = I Want It.

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  50. backster (2,185 comments) says:

    The silence from whoever is the Minister of Local Government is deafening…Nick Smith was the only minister in decades who appeared determined to bring Local Government back into line, especially on escalating rates but he was cut down and fired when in full stride. His successor Carter was a pushover do nothing, and his successors have been invisible, while the problems are escalating.

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