Kiwis fighting for rebels in Syria

February 11th, 2014 at 10:00 am by David Farrar

Stuff reports:

New Zealand passport holders have been identified fighting alongside anti-Government forces in , Prime Minister John Key says.

In some instances, the Department of Internal Affairs had cancelled their passports – some were dual nationality, including Australians, he said.

A small number also had their documents confiscated before they were allowed to leave for the civil war-torn Middle Eastern state, the prime minister said.

Rebel factions have been battling to topple President Bashar al-Assad since 2011.

Key refused to say how many Kiwis have been fighting, or give any details.

He knew of no prosecutions, saying “it was handled in a different way”.

The revelation comes after weekend reports that Australians were “flocking” to the front line. Across the Tasman, the government fears the fighters will return as hardline radicalised Islamists, ready to launch domestic terror attacks.

“Yes, there is likely to … have been a small number of New Zealanders who have fought with the rebels in Syria,” Key said today.

“There are a small group of people that have gone to Syria to fight. There’s a small group that were going to Syria that we stopped … we have physically stopped some and we are clearly aware of others who are in Syria.”

Asked if any of the alleged fighters had been affiliated to extremist Islamists al Qaeda, Key was vague: “I am not going to go into their individual details. I mean, they have fought against the government so you can choose which particular rebel group you think they are fighting for … it involves people who are opposed to the Assad regime.

“There are a variety of rebel groups but I think my understanding is the largest rebel group is associated to al Qaeda.”

That’s a bit of a wake up call. It’s one thing to say you think Assad should go. It’s another to fly over there and join in a civil war. What happens when they want to return?

“We certainly need to be clear that if they return to New Zealand whether they pose a threat to other New Zealanders if they have become radicalised … there is always a risk that someone who goes into that environment comes back to New Zealand in a radicalised state.”

That is a very real risk.

 

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67 Responses to “Kiwis fighting for rebels in Syria”

  1. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    The reason Key is tight on names is because they are all Muslims and huge security risks that entered NZ.

    Very soon, probably in his next tenure, Key will announce internment camps. They definitely coming.

    These are the alarm bells we are hearing now. Only the internmant camps aren’t for foreign Muslims but domestic Kiwi’s.

    Unemployed first I should think.

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  2. KiwiGreg (3,169 comments) says:

    Get some professional help.

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  3. Alan Wilkinson (1,812 comments) says:

    @wb, you confirm that the greatest threat to NZ is our political idiots, not terrorists.

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  4. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    Perhaps a stop-off in Iraq to do a little training…

    A group of Sunni militants attending a suicide bombing training class at a camp north of Baghdad were killed on Monday when their commander unwittingly conducted a demonstration with a belt that was packed with explosives, army and police officials said.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/11/world/middleeast/suicide-bomb-instructor-accidentally-kills-iraqi-pupils.html

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  5. gump (1,474 comments) says:

    Around twenty New Zealanders went to Spain in the 1930s to fight against the fascists in the Spanish civil war.

    It’s just something that young and idealistic people feel compelled to do.

    http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/war/spanish-civil-war

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  6. thePeoplesFlag (168 comments) says:

    I love the way David Farrar airily fails to be bothered with authoritarian government action – cancelling the passports of New Zealand citizens who have committed no crime – when it suits the hard line agenda of his handlers.

    Twenty odd New Zealanders went and fought for the Republic in Spain and were the first to fight in the great crusade against fascism. Would John Key have wanted to make them (and the likes of George Orwell) criminals as well? And what about New Zealanders who leave to join the French Foreign legion?

    If New Zealanders want to go and fight in Syria that is their business. They may expect to be closely watched on their return. But they have a right, I suppose, to go and get killed wherever they want.

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  7. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    For starters they are not “Kiwis”.

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  8. Manolo (13,315 comments) says:

    Scum whose only allegiance is to the religion of peace, the vile Islam, not to NZ.

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  9. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    ‘@wb, you confirm that the greatest threat to NZ is our political idiots, not terrorists.’

    We’re being betrayed from the inside

    TPP will prove that

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  10. dime (9,356 comments) says:

    Anyone seen Kea lately?

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  11. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    ‘Anyone seen Kea lately?’

    He\she was on yesterday

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  12. Joanne (177 comments) says:

    thePeoplesFlag

    The NZ Government has a right to cancel passports especially when it effects or could effect NZers security. And it wouldn’t be taken lightly. 10 since 2005 is not large.

    Look at the problems Britain has had with these radicalised guys. That soldier (off duty) that was hacked to death in daylight.

    Anyone’s right to go over and fight BUT at the same time NZ has a right to cancel passports. They are the risks.

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  13. Fentex (855 comments) says:

    Keeping an eye on them to see if they want to import trouble seems reasonable to me, but revoking their passports because they choose to get involved I’m not so sure about, it’s smells a little like taking sides and passing judgement which I’m not sure is appropriate of our government.

    Given it’s a civil conflict with murky and shaded issues and little clarity treating it one way or the other is a judgement call, so it doesn’t exercise me too much that our government has made the call one way rather than the other.

    Why did Key announce this? It is news we’d want to hear so I don’t think there’s any need to question his motives except for his obvious desire to use it as justification for increased surveillance on New Zealanders. I do not find his rationalisation convincing.

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  14. Brian Smaller (3,982 comments) says:

    For the hundredth time – they are not Kiwis. They are Islamic mujahadeen who do not recognise national boundaries or even nationalities – just the land ruled by Islam and the rest. A New Zealand Passport is a means to travel and gives a bolt hole to come back to (and get welfare benefits from the infidels while they are at it).

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  15. Harriet (4,495 comments) says:

    If you pass just the 2% mark of Muslim immigration – you can then definatly say good bye to your country.

    2% is when they start to agitate for Sharia Law……and that ain’t fucken nothing like Maori demands.

    BTW……when the fuck is Key going to cancel the passports of 5yld girls taken to Indonesia to get their ‘excitable bit’ cut off? – The Australian Federal Police said almost a year ago where in Indonesia young kiwi and aussie girls were being taken to to have the cut.

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  16. Paulus (2,490 comments) says:

    Sounds as though our two Security Services are doing their jobs – despite Wussell & Co.,in identifying these people.

    No doubt they’re former refugee’s who by that virtue have been able to get New Zealand passports, and the dole as well I expect.
    Are they still being paid by the Taxpayers ?

    This morning an Australian Professor (of course) from Melbourne was decrying Human Rights breaches in cancelling passports of these lovely people. He did not have a Middle East name or accent. He of course was referring to Australia who’s Muslim problem is escalating by the day, obviously having no or little knowledge of the New Zealand Muslim refugee status, and the ability to keep a track on these people, as they are not smuggled in like Australia.

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  17. Jack5 (4,568 comments) says:

    For having NZ-born Somalis fighting for Al Qaeda groups in Syria we can thank our politicians and pampered diplomatic staff. The admission of thousands of Somalis to NZ was a result of the previous campaign NZ waged at the UN to gain its seat on the Security Council. Now the pricks are trying to do it again to get a seat on the council.

    As for Gump’s ridiculous (10.22) comparison of the NZ-born terrorists in Syria to the 1930s soldiers: those who volunteered to fight for the Republican side in Spain varied from idealist to far Leftist, but they weren’t into suicide bombing, subjugating women, bulldozing walls on to homosexuals, stoning adulterers, and fanatical hatred of the West.

    The People’sFlag commentator makes the point people can go where they like from a democratic country. But a democratic country can also decide to shut out such people from return, or cancel their citizenship, if it decides the cause they fight for is repugnant or a threat to its survival as a democratic state.

    I presume People’sFlag is a Leftie and not from the new ACT.

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  18. EAD (571 comments) says:

    The question must be asked: Why is just about every single Western Politician so keen to fundamentally change the most peaceful, successful group of nations in history, drown them in debt, spy on their citizens, restrict their speech, demonize anyone that dares challenge the status quo and fill them up with people with an ideology that stands violently opposed to everything that is good and decent in our societies?

    I don’t ever remember these options being part of the manifestos when I got to vote for the red team or the blue team at the last election?

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  19. tvb (4,193 comments) says:

    We have largely kept this radical element out of NZ. I would place every muslim man (especially from Pakistan) on a list of prohibited immigrants. I have been told the immigration department employs a lot of indians so I guess there will be no difficulty in keeping muslims OUT.

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  20. Harriet (4,495 comments) says:

    You nailed that EAD.

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  21. tvb (4,193 comments) says:

    The Australians have announced they have cancelled 18 passports. Key has not given numbers so he released LESS information than the Australian Government. What is Cunliffe on about.

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  22. Nigel Kearney (864 comments) says:

    It seems to be there is a gigantic middle ground between being a radical islamist and sitting around doing nothing while someone like Assad is butchering your family and friends.

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  23. redqueen (451 comments) says:

    Sorry, the fact that we don’t like the opposition in Syria, does not make it a bad parallel to Spain in the 1930s. Specifically, the Foreign Enlistments Act would have applied at the time (although was not enforced), which specifically prohibited British subjects from engaging in foreign military service. What is more concerning is that this is being used to provide a conduit for discrimination. That Moslems (men or otherwise) potentially have a cause that is different from what white or Maori Kiwis think, does not make their actions any less valid than what our ancestors have done in the past. That we would not do this now is says something about how our attitudes may have changed, but it doesn’t make them any more ‘wrong’.

    Those radical leftists who went to Spain were advocating a form of dictatorship which killed millions, was oppressive, and ended up with so much infighting that Spain ended up with the fascists . The parallel is not unjustified, the times have just changed.

    And that does not mean I support the radicals, it just means that the issue is more to do with what security measures are in place upon their return and less about trying to control them ‘to prevent’ a problem. If people flew off to Britain to engage in riots in London, I think the same security concerns would apply, but it is not for our government to decide who can fly where, when, etc. unless it has decided to actually take sides in the conflict.

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  24. gump (1,474 comments) says:

    @Nigel Kearney

    “It seems to be there is a gigantic middle ground between being a radical islamist and sitting around doing nothing while someone like Assad is butchering your family and friends.”

    ————————-

    There’s no middle ground on Kiwiblog.

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  25. RRM (9,420 comments) says:

    >I love the way David Farrar airily fails to be bothered with authoritarian government action – cancelling the passports of New Zealand citizens who have committed no crime – when it suits the hard line agenda of his handlers.

    The Prime Minister has a responsibility to think about the interests of New Zealanders first, and what is good for Syria second. If you call that a “hard-line agenda”… you’re an idiot. Or very naive.

    Even if you totally ignore the Al Qaeda connections for a moment – you would be all kinds of fucked up after being involved in fighting like what is going on over there.

    I would not want to have those people coming back here walking the street with whatever hellish psychological baggage they may accumulate over there, AND a whole lot of training and experience in killing “the enemy” courtesy of some dubious militia or another.

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  26. Sam Buchanan (502 comments) says:

    Does seem to be some parallels with Spain here – people rise up against a nasty dictatorship (or would-be dictatorship in the case of Spain), the democracies equivocate, provide a dribble of support, then get cold feet, and tend towards ‘non-involvement’. Meanwhile the authoritarians on both sides pile in hook line and sinker and drive the conflict as a battle between two ghastly alternatives, with anyone reasonable excluded (or executed).

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  27. smttc (687 comments) says:

    RRM exactly. So why the hell is John Key giving the public and the MSM his insights into the operations of our spy agencies.

    Sometimes Key just needs to STFU instead of busily volunteering his stream of consciousness insights.

    He has just made the work of our spy agencies harder by tipping off these useful idiots that they have been infiltrated. FFS

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  28. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    No parallel with Spain.

    The socialists were going to wipe out the middle classes, private property,the officer class in the military,the Church.

    They rose up to protect themselves.

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  29. RRM (9,420 comments) says:

    smttc:

    Maybe they’ve decided broadcasting a warning like this is worth it?

    ” Oh Hai, Prime Minister of New Zealand here. New Zealand may not be Syria but our armed forces and intelligence services are not dumbarse fluffy bunnies; we know who you are and we know what you’re up to. Stop it. Or we’ll stop it.”

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  30. David Garrett (6,309 comments) says:

    This is a tricky one…On the one hand I agree that citizens ought to have the right to go and fight where they wish against perceived evil…on the other hand our government certainly has the right to exclude those who wish to harm us or our society…We are probably stuck with the Muslims we (or Ms Clark) have already let in, but I completely agree there should be a total ban on any more … We have the lesson just across the Tasman as to what happens when Muslims reach a “critical mass” in any society…

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  31. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    tvb

    India?

    Potentially 20 % of any Indian population is Muslim.

    In light of that you may want to rethink what you said about the immigration dept.

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  32. unaha-closp (1,111 comments) says:

    There’s no middle ground on Kiwiblog.

    There is middle ground, its the space between the stridently shouted argumentative voices.

    There is middle ground, but there is no consensus opinion.

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  33. iMP (2,231 comments) says:

    Treason still exists on the statute books.

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  34. Chuck Bird (4,661 comments) says:

    No doubt these fanatics who want to go and fight in Syria would expect ACC for life if the manage to come back her totally incapacitated.

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  35. Psycho Milt (2,246 comments) says:

    As others have pointed out, the headline “Kiwis fighting with Syrian anti-govt forces” is almost certainly wrong. The description used in the article, “New Zealand passport holders” is more accurate. Rather like the “Briton” who blew himself up there in a suicide bombing – that fucker was about as British as a taco.

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  36. gump (1,474 comments) says:

    @kowtow

    “No parallel with Spain. The socialists were going to wipe out the middle classes, private property,the officer class in the military,the Church. They rose up to protect themselves.”

    ————————

    And by “rose up” you mean they were rebel groups who started an armed insurgency against a democratically elected government and instituted a military dictator who ruled for 36 years.

    The people in Spain and Syria took up arms against their Governments to force a change in the leadership. The parallels are pretty obvious.

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  37. gump (1,474 comments) says:

    @Psycho Milt

    “As others have pointed out, the headline “Kiwis fighting with Syrian anti-govt forces” is almost certainly wrong. The description used in the article, “New Zealand passport holders” is more accurate. Rather like the “Briton” who blew himself up there in a suicide bombing – that fucker was about as British as a taco.”

    ———————-

    And the two radicals who killed Private Lee Rigby were both born in Britain…

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  38. smttc (687 comments) says:

    Chuck, you cannot get ACC unless the personal injury by accident occurs in NZ.

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  39. Chuck Bird (4,661 comments) says:

    smttc, thanks. But if they got back the taxpayer will still have to pay ongoing medical costs and some sort of benefit.

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  40. gump (1,474 comments) says:

    @smttc

    “Chuck, you cannot get ACC unless the personal injury by accident occurs in NZ.”

    —————————

    I don’t think that is true.

    ACC provides up to six months of injury cover to NZ citizens who are abroad (provided that they’re ordinarily resident in NZ).

    Edit – I was right. Here is a ACC document (PDF format) with more information:

    http://www.acc.co.nz/PRD_EXT_CSMP/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&dID=6258&dDocName=WCM001860&allowInterrupt=1

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  41. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    “The question must be asked:”

    Ead

    funny when you say it, everyone likes it!

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  42. wf (371 comments) says:

    Listened to Plunket this morning where he had a lively discussion with listeners on this very subject. He spoke to a Syrian of 20 years residence in NZ, who is part of a group of the Support Syria variety. This gentleman spoke at uninterruptible length ranging over a variety of subjects, including John Keys lack of support of something or other – it all got a tad confusing, but I was struck by his similarity to the people we see being interviewed on Al Jazeera.

    I could imagine what would eventuate if this man and his friends got into a verbal argument with a group with an alternate viewpoint – running battles in the High Street.

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  43. Sam Buchanan (502 comments) says:

    “The socialists were going to wipe out the middle classes, private property,the officer class in the military,the Church. They rose up to protect themselves.”

    Poor old misunderstood Franco. His military coup was an act of self-defence and the Condor Legion was a humanitarian intervention.

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  44. Psycho Milt (2,246 comments) says:

    So, Franco was a “sometimes you have to destroy the village in order to save it” kind of guy? Actually, on second thoughts Franco would probably have regarded that as lily-livered, bleeding-heart liberalism.

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  45. big bruv (13,210 comments) says:

    ” Only the internment (sic) camps aren’t for foreign Muslims but domestic Kiwi’s. Unemployed first I should think.”

    That is a great idea. But let’s not get carried away. Only the long term dole bludgers should be first in line, after them we can include the DPB breeders and other assorted parasites (Ure and Bright come to mind)

    NZ would be a better, safer and more productive place immediately.

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  46. thedavincimode (6,519 comments) says:

    Cab bookings now required 3 weeks in advance in Sydney.

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  47. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    Poor old misunderstood Spanish communism.

    About 500 members of the international brigades were murdered on the orders of Andre Marty a member of the comintern on the spurious basis that he believed they were spies.

    Source The Battle for Spain. A Beevor.

    “Humanitarian intervention,” Kiss my nationalist arse.

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  48. Sam Buchanan (502 comments) says:

    Sure the Stalinists were murderous scumbags – as I noted before in my comment about the parallels with Syria. Does this excuse fascism?

    Worth noting that the Stalinists had almost no power in Spain until Franco’s civil war gave them an opportunity to take power. Seems like Asaad’s dictatorship is providing similar fertile ground for authoritarian nutbars – in the on-going civil war only the most brutal will survive.

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  49. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    wf

    Running battles in High Street.

    That’s Sydney and Melbourne ……but it’s racist to say so. Import enough of these guys and you will turn your country into a shit hole.

    That’s already the case in parts of Britain,Sweden and france,is that what we want too?

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  50. stephieboy (2,146 comments) says:

    If you want to understand more about the Spanish Civil War then go no further than Homage to Catalonia by George Orwell.
    He fought for the Republicans under an Independent Marxist militia of Trotskyite leanings.However as the fighting progressed the pro Soviet leaning factions took a dislike and disdain for his and other Independent left wing groups. allied to the Republicans. Moscow felt that trying to seek
    accommodation with the West and even Nazism was the new agenda and decided to “kill the Spanish Revolution ” and turn against elements in the Republicans including Orwell’s militia.Consequently Orwell was forced to flee for his life. Many of his fighting Colleagues were not so fortunate.
    The outcome was his biting and bitter satire and polemic against Soviet duplicity and connivance, Animal Farm.

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  51. Psycho Milt (2,246 comments) says:

    Kiss my nationalist arse.

    If we’re talking Spanish civil war, the term you’re looking for is fascist, not nationalist, and it never ceases to amaze me how many apologists for it there are.

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  52. Fentex (855 comments) says:

    Idot Savant at No Right Turn points out that cancelling these peoples passports is probably illegal.

    It increases my discomfort at the governments actions. As some people have compared fighting in Syria to fighting in Spain in the 1930′s I am reminded that choosing to go and help a cause is not in and off itself something that can be reasonably forbidden to people.

    Some people wouldn’t like those who fought for communism in Spain, but many would support those who were there to fight against fascism.

    Likewise in Syria plenty of people wouldn’t like those who fight for Islamist causes while supporting those who fight for freedom from tyranny.

    War is general, and civil conflicts in particular are morasses of causes and conflicting objectives which leaves me thinking that I was right to worry about an error in cancelling passports while keeping the view that any returning participants may not be committing crimes but deserve some critical observation remains a reasonable attitude for government.

    Though you can see the governments thinking – New Zealanders are generally liked and free to move around much of the world, we wouldn’t our reputation tainted by someone using our passport if they practiced terrorism.

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  53. PaulL (5,872 comments) says:

    I’m interested in what cancelling their passports means.

    We should be careful about who becomes a citizen – my understanding is that once someone is a citizen that’s it for life, you can’t take it away again. So it’s a big step. That doesn’t mean discriminating against all Muslims, I think that’s flat out wrong. But it might mean checking that people actually share NZ’s general value set (which isn’t code for checking they’re Christians, it means that we check they agree that they need to abide by NZ’s laws, not some other laws).

    Cancelling passports presumably means they can no longer travel. They can still come home to NZ if they wish – they’re a citizen. But they can’t travel around the world on that NZ passport any more. Effectively we’re saying that we (the NZ govt) have determined that you’re travelling to commit crimes, and that we aren’t giving you a passport so that you can do that.

    Next question is whether they’re really committing crimes. I think most of us could agree the Assad regime is pretty horrendous and should go. Is it really a crime to go and fight against them? If so, does it suddenly stop being a crime if the UN decided to pass a resolution against them, and/or if the west decided to actually intervene instead of standing idly by? And why on earth would we outsource our morals and laws to the UN or to the “west”?

    Seems to me it’s either right, it’s wrong or it’s dubious. And that won’t change after a UN resolution – a UN resolution doesn’t change the morality. My feeling is that it’s dubious – i.e. reasonable people could disagree. We don’t pass laws to make something illegal that reasonable people can disagree on. (Actually, we do, we outlawed physical discipline of children, but I probably shouldn’t bring that up).

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  54. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    “Only the long term dole bludgers should be first in line, after them we can include the DPB breeders and other assorted parasites ”

    I rest my case on interment camps being inhabited by the unemployed first under the guise of national security.

    The fascists weren’tt aken out after the war they just went underground to come back undemine economies and socities then create a huge underclass of unemployed to create scapegoats to re establish concentration camps (FEMA camps in the US)

    already John Key is trying to create paranoia about terroists in NZ. Simply translate from Jews in Germany to terroist suspects today. The ones NZ has let in the country in the first place.

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  55. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    If we’re talking Spanish civil war,the term you’re looking for is communist,not Republican and it never ceases to amaze me how many apologists for it there are.

    There,fixed.

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  56. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    stephieboy

    If you want to understand the Spanish civil war I recommend

    The Battle for Spain by Anthony Beevor.

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  57. gump (1,474 comments) says:

    @kowtow

    I’ve read Beevor’s book and it’s pretty clear that you haven’t. But since you accept Beevor as authoritative then consider the following:

    Beevor concluded that the Republican forces were responsible for 38,000 deaths and that Franco’s campaign of White Terror was responsible for 200,000 deaths. He also concluded that the mass executions conducted by the Nationalist forces were approved and oraganised by the Nationalist leaders, while the Republican executions were a consequence of the breakdown of the Republican state.

    Please do us all a favour and actually read something about Francoist Spain. You’re expressing support for fascist regime that was backed by Hitler and Mussolini – doesn’t that embarrass you?

    I recommend that you start by reading the following:

    \http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Spain)

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  58. Sam Buchanan (502 comments) says:

    “If you want to understand the Spanish civil war I recommend The Battle for Spain by Anthony Beevor.”

    So do I.

    “If we’re talking Spanish civil war, the term you’re looking for is communist, not Republican and it never ceases to amaze me how many apologists for it there are.”

    While the term ‘republican’ was pretty meaningless in ther Spanish context, its absurd to claim the anti-Francoist forces were even predominantly communist. Think you should re-read Beevor.

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  59. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    gump

    You’re expressing support for a regime backed by Stalin ,doesn’t that embarrass you?

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  60. gump (1,474 comments) says:

    @Sam Buchanan

    “Think you should re-read Beevor.”

    ————————

    It’s pretty clear that kowtow has never read Beevor (or anything else on the subject).

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  61. gump (1,474 comments) says:

    @kowtow

    “You’re expressing support for a regime backed by Stalin ,doesn’t that embarrass you?”

    ———————–

    The Republican Government wasn’t backed by Stalin. It speaks to your ignorance that you think they were.

    The clearest evidence for this is that the Russian Government would’t extend any credit to the Spaniards – so the Republicans decided to sell the Spanishystate gold reserves to the Russians so they could finance the armaments that they needed to fight the Francoists.

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  62. questions (168 comments) says:

    Assad sends his thanks to Mr Key.

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  63. nasska (10,611 comments) says:

    As Kiwis with the luxury of being able to stand back & observe what is going on in Syria, why on earth would we take sides?

    For certain, Assad is a cruel oppressor of his people but the rebels are a ragtag bunch of Saudi backed Muslim extremists such as Al Qaeda. Surely no one thinks that Sharia Law under a hardline Islamic regime would be a better bet for the average Syrian than life under Assad.

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  64. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    gump

    You’ve invited me to read wiki

    Give it a go yourself.

    See the bit about all the backing Stalin gave.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_faction_(Spanish_Civil_War)

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  65. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Please do not Bring our Country into disrepute and mock the sacrifice that founded our Country
    by referring to them as KIWIS

    HOW DARE YOU CALL THESE PEOPLE KIWIS

    DO NOT DARE CALL THESE PEOPLE KIWIS

    YOU LIARS

    KIWIS – FIGHT IN NZ UNIFORM

    WHEN THEIR COUNTRY GIVES THEM A JOB TO DO

    AND IF THEY DIE IN THE PROCESS THEY DO SO PROUDLY AS THEY ALWAYS HAVE

    SO THAT WE ENJOY THE HARD WON FREEDOMS WE HAVE

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  66. gump (1,474 comments) says:

    @kowtow

    I’m not certain you read the wiki page you just linked.

    Stalin sold arms to the Republicans in exchange for the entirety of the Spanish gold reserves – which were the fourth largest in the world at that time. Stalin didn’t give them anything, he sold it at a huge price.

    Gerald Howson describes the situation well in his book “Arms for Spain: The Untold Story of the Spanish Civil War”. The Russians manipulated the exchange rates and overcharged the Republicans by almost 25%. Howson writes in conclusion:

    “…of all the swindles, cheatings, robberies and betrayals that the Republicans had to put up with from governments, officials and arms traffickers all over the world, this barrow-boy behavior by Stalin and the high officials of the Soviet nomenklatura is surely the most squalid, the most treacherous and the most indefensible.”

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  67. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    If you pretend to represent NZ or AUS in any of these conflicts (By using an AUS or NZ passport)
    on any side for what ever reason
    it is
    Spying Treason Espionage and or Terrorism

    Death Penalty – No Exceptions

    NO IFS BUTS or MAYBE

    Anyone who supports them THE SAME

    Gloss it up as anything else and YOU ARE A LIAR and a Supporter

    Read above

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