The ABCs are back

February 21st, 2014 at 7:00 am by David Farrar

Duncan Garner talks on Radio Live about how the ABCs are back. He cites both a current and former Labour MP who have said that there is growing discontent over how Cunliffe has started the year.

Duncan was very clear that there is no challenge to Cunliffe’s leadership looming.Both sources were explicit on this. What has happened is that the the ABCs had gone into hibernation, but now they are talking to each other again.

The strategy that seems to be emerging is more a go slow. They think Labour can’t win, so they won’t bust their backs slogging away for a leader they don’t support. They’ll just wait for the loss, and then vacate the leadership after the election.

That’s what Garner has said a current and former Labour MP have said. And it is worth noting that Garner was one of the first to expose the maneuvers that were happening against David Shearer.

Labour dropping to 30% in yesterday’s Roy Morgan poll won’t help settle things down much either. The RM poll is very volatile, so eyes will be out for other in the next month or so.

Pete George has a transcript of what Garner said.

Tags: , ,

57 Responses to “The ABCs are back”

  1. Pete George (23,682 comments) says:

    Here’s a full transcript of Garner’s claims: Garner – Labour MPs to lose the election then roll Cunliffe

    And Garner later tweeted: “The other political editors will write similar stuff in their weekend columns… Mark my words…”

    This is looking dire for Labour. It looks like the caucus rats aren’t deserting the ship so much as gnawing through the ropes and shitting in the gearbox. Seff interest and stuff the party or their constituents.

    With no apparent competence or will to prevent it or deal with Labour may be facing a crisis.

    Vote: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. Manolo (14,044 comments) says:

    Et tu, Brutus?

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. tas (646 comments) says:

    I think Cunliffe is safe until the election, but, if he loses, he’s gone. Labour can’t afford a bitter leadership change in an election year. I presume the ABCs are just musing about his replacement, as it seems one will be called for by the end of the year.

    What’s interesting is if Cunliffe wins the election. Will his position be safe if he is leading a 4-headed coaltion beast? As 2017 approaches, they may want to replace him.

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. Pete George (23,682 comments) says:

    Labour can’t afford a bitter leadership change in an election year.

    They can’t afford a year of bitter backstabbing either.

    Vote: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. Keeping Stock (10,414 comments) says:

    Here’s what Garner said at the end of his piece yesterday:

    There’s concern. There’s concern in the Labour camp. They’re not going to roll him. They’re just concerned that he’s not delivering on his promises and I’m told there’s a bit of a go-slow, that some of the MP’s and staff have decided “Well, he can lose the election and we’ll roll him straight after the election”, but go-slow, that’s what I’m told. They won’t roll him but they won’t work hard for him. Interesting, isn’t it?

    Has there ever been a reaction like this against a party leader from his own caucus in New Zealand? Of course, Labour’s new leadership rules have come back to bite the party on the bum; they can’t just roll Cunliffe now.

    If this was cricket, you’d call it match-fixing.

    Vote: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    What a pathetic line-up: Cunliffe, Parker, Robertson, Jones, Cosgrove, and now the effeminate Hipkins getting a bit of say, alongside the hapless King, protector of Hughes.

    Vote: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. Bovver (173 comments) says:

    The Roy Morgan poll will have the left worried, it’s the one they like to trumpet as National tends not to do well, over in the alternative left wing blogs DC’s comment about JK’s house is actually a nasty RWC that will badly back fire on JK, and these are morons who hoping to get their hands on the levers of power.

    Vote: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. Pete George (23,682 comments) says:

    Garner named a few in the ABC Club:

    The ABC Club is led by people like Trevor Mallard, I haven’t got a huge amount of time for Trevor any more, we’ve had a few scraps. Mallard’s in there, he’s a lifelong member. Annette King as well, it’s pretty fair to say she’s in there. Clayton Cosgrove. There’s a few others as well. Shearer.

    Mallard seems to have taken over as Labour’s de facto shadow leader of the house albeit from the back corner. Grant Robertson seems to be on a go-slow.

    Both Dunedin MPs David Clark and Clare Curran strongly opposed Cunliffe and were subsequently significantly demoted but I don’t know if they’re members of the club.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. big bruv (14,141 comments) says:

    I love watching the left tear itself apart. I am starting to think that they will not survive another election loss.
    When you factor in that the next Labour PM is not yet in the house things do not look good for them, I really can see John Key being PM for as long as he wants the job, only when he has had enough will the left even get a look in.

    Labour’s problems are of course self inflicted, when you have troughers like Mallard, King and co refusing to budge then there is nothing new for the public to get excited about. This coupled with the horrendous mistake of letting somebody like Kelvin Davis leave the house only makes the situation worse.
    As one of the few decent Labour MP’s has said, the Labour party is nothing more than a gaggle of gays and self serving unionists.

    It is clear to the public that Labour MP’s do not really care about the people that vote for them, first and foremost Labour MP’s are worried about keeping their own jobs rather than working on behalf of the people who are stupid enough to vote for them.

    The ABC club seem to think that Grant Robertson is the answer, well I hope that they keep thinking like that, Grant Robertson is never going to be elected as PM by Kiwis, yes most Kiwis do not give a stuff about what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom but going as far as voting for an openly gay man to be the PM is pushing them a bit far.

    As I have already said, John Key can and will be the PM for as long as he wants, I suspect he will see out the next term and lead his government into a fourth, at sometime during that fourth term he will hand over the reigns to his successor.

    Can Labour win once Key has had enough?, well yes, but only if they grow balls big enough to deal with the troughers and the idle parasites who infest their party. Given that the Labour party seem hell bent on keeping totally useless MP’s like Fenton, Mallard, King, every Maori MP (with the exception of Jones) Little and co in the house then it will be years and years before they are in a position to every form a government.

    Long may that state of affairs continue.

    Popular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 27 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. Pete George (23,682 comments) says:

    Roy Morgan polled up until last Sunday so won’t have been impacted by this week’s disasters. Apparently TVNZ have been polling through the week and will release that on Sunday. Will be interesting.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. Nostalgia-NZ (5,278 comments) says:

    So let me get this right, the so called ABCs have such a problem with Cunliffe that they prefer to be in opposition. I get it.

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. Ross12 (1,454 comments) says:

    Rob Hosking in the NBR is predicting / suggesting an early election is on the cards

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. Dave_1924 (119 comments) says:

    This is no surprise. I asked a question about how easy it is for a leadership challenge in Labour under their new rules the other day over on WOBH, but didn’t see a reply. I assume its pretty tough to organise a spill when you need to carry not just a majority in the parliamentary caucus but also carry the Unions and membership as well –

    Cunliffe undermined Shearer openly and then has forced himself on his caucus via the Labour leader election model of three voting colleges by promising the Unions heaven and stacking the membership with his supporters.

    Frankly Labour is to a large extent a house divided against itself in multiple ways. As such party discipline and cohesion is going to be increasingly difficult to maintain. The ultra liberal Wellington Central faction has very little in common with the factions representing old school Labour i.e. hard core working man faction as represented by people like Damien O’Connor.

    I just wish as a centrist that Labour would actually be a social democrat party that focuses on OPPORTUNITY for a average working Kiwi’s and not espouse neo-Stalinist central planning BS a la Kiwi Power and being a :Beneficiaries are the Future Party: etc. The world has seen the failure of that style multiple times – why keep banging a broken drum???

    For NZ Politics to deliver for the NZ people we need an effective and sensible Left of Centre party espousing reasonable policies to balance Nationals voice – between the two of them they hold the lunatic fringe at bay and yes I am looking at you Hone and Russell

    Popular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 21 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. Keeping Stock (10,414 comments) says:

    Labour polled as high as 37% on the Morgan poll immediately after Cunliffe was elected leader in September 2013. So they’ve effectively lost almost 20% of their support in five months and they are headed rapidly towards the 27% they recorded in the 2011 General Election; Labour’s worst election result in more than 60 years.

    But packing a sad and going on a go-slow seems rather childish. Then again, according to Damien O’Connor Labour is partly run by “self-serving unionists”, so a bit of old-fashioned industrial muscle-flexing is hardly surprising.

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. James Stephenson (2,223 comments) says:

    So let me get this right, the so called ABCs have such a problem with Cunliffe that they prefer to be in opposition. I get it

    I realise that reading and comprehension is not your strong point Nostalgia, but here’s the key bit: “They think Labour can’t win…”

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. Roflcopter (465 comments) says:

    This is an all-or-nothing for the ABC’s.

    If, as they wish, prefer to not bust a gut in the lead up to the election then they know they’re in for another term of opposition. This really shows how bad things must be in there to take that approach to get rid of Cunliffe.

    However, if he does get over the line in the face of the ABC’s approach, then they’ll all be toast… the lot of them.

    It’s great watching this play out.

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. BeaB (2,144 comments) says:

    Nature abhors a vacuum and Jones is filling it. Unfortunately he exaggerates so much and gets so carried away with the brilliance of his own oratory that most of us enjoy the spectacle but take what he says with a grain of salt.

    This morning he was referring to himself in the third person – always a worrying sign.

    Kiwis don’t like Cunliffe and they know they cannot trust him. That’s fatal for any leader but add to that a tired, fractious group of has-been MPs and the ghastly prospect of the Greens starts to loom large.

    Vote: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. Kleva Kiwi (289 comments) says:

    If things are so bad, is anyone in Labour looking at splitting and forming a new party?
    I could see the old school working man labour doing as such. They would probably fetch a fair amount of votes being a centre left

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. Fisiani (1,047 comments) says:

    For ages I have been telling you that Grant Robertson is playing the long game. It is not in Grant’s interest for The Cunliffe to win in 2014. For Grant to be the leader in 2017 the Cunliffe has to be rolled. This will happen not due to active sabotage but by simply not putting in the effort to get out the vote as we previously saw in 2011 in Wellington Central when Grant Robertson managed to put Labour into third place for the first time ever. Grant Robertson believes that he should be and will be Prime Minister. He can wait 3 years to try.

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. Keeping Stock (10,414 comments) says:

    @Ross12 – I’d love to see Key go to the country now but he would risk a backlash as boundary changes from the 2011 General Election have yet to be finalised. He would leave himself open to allegations that he was gaming the system. Let those happen, let Bill English deliver the Budget with a forecast surplus, then go for it!

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. Harriet (5,121 comments) says:

    When you do what Labour has done – then you get what Labour has got.

    Labour’s vote at the last election was it’s worse in over a half a century – and what did they do about it? Nothing. They didn’t reform. Same people – same policies.

    You can’t be out of office for two terms and not have a leader who at least has a reasonable chance of competing.

    There are very serious problems within Labour and for one they can’t work together, and on top of that they also want to form a coalition with others as well – to run the economy. Well that doesn’t work, as the last time we saw that was with the Rudd/Gillard/Greens/Independants. An almost half a trillion dollar joke. Rudd was a hopeless leader.

    And Cunliffe is polling the same as Rudd did before he was knifed.

    Labour will poll less than they got at the last election.

    Vote: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. Huevon (223 comments) says:

    Who cares!!! Internecine fighting on the left is a god send. The Right should be looking for ways to encourage it!

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. mara (794 comments) says:

    K,Rudd, L.Brown, D. Cunliffe. J.Key. One is not like the others. It’s getting more obvious daily.

    Vote: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. Colville (2,298 comments) says:

    The alsolutley wonderful thing about the ABCs is that they do not have a viable alternative Leader, they can disrupt and backstab all they like but the cupboard is bare.
    Jones? He is ok but is lazy and his history taints him, he would be more at home in National.
    Robertson? Na. Was shown up badly in the primary against DC and Jones. He is a wimp.

    and the next best hasnt even joined the Liarbore Party yet….

    Bwaaahhhahahahahahaha :-)

    Edit. The position Liarbore is in now is Huluns greatest legacy. Awesome.

    Vote: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. BeaB (2,144 comments) says:

    Kiwis have already seen Grant Robertson blatantly lying to them on TV. Fatal.

    If Mallard etc had any real smarts and guts they would stage a takeover of the Greens and build it into the new Labour.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. Nostalgia-NZ (5,278 comments) says:

    Looking at it another way if you are in a team, a sports team or any other, and you don’t particularly like the Captain, do you deliberately throw the game and be a loser? Do the so called ABCs, many possibly due or over due for retirement, despise Cunliffe with what would be an immature and non pragmatic dislike to the point of forgoing an opportunity on the Treasury benches – that’s an inconsistent line which is hard to swallow. Are the great minds supposedly plotting an overthrow of Cunliffe after the next election to gain the prize of his scalp and leadership, unaware of cutting off their own noses – or as some may put, own snouts. Something not on the mark in all this, but interesting to watch those who may take the baton change without thinking about what is under the surface and the real ramifications.

    A year ago Cunliffe had played this card which of course was then 2 years out from the election. The situation is now that there is a pending election and a chance at being Government. Are we expected to believe that is of less value to the Labour Party, or parts of it, than the getting rid of Cunliffe because he has put his foot in it to some degree with the baby bonus for example. In the sometimes cloistered world of political intrigue the big picture escapes, the next election has been described as too close to call, there are many more trials, tribulations and new issues ahead for the all the political parties so I find it very hard to believe that striving for being part of Government is not the most important agenda and all else second.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. Colville (2,298 comments) says:

    If Liarbore did start a new leadership race Key would announce an election. Perfect :-)

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. Sofia (864 comments) says:

    So here’s how it seems to a potential voter:
    Labour went into the last Election with a Leader everyone knew would be dropped at the first opportunity.
    No one else in Labour challenged that.
    So no one in Labour gave a fuck as to what Labour stood for or how Labour could help any voter.
    They were all just interested in their well-paying jobs being in a holding pattern.
    Since then they have changed their Leader twice.
    And apart from Jones attacking the supermarkets, nobody has done a fucking thing that isn’t related to maintaining a supposedly ‘credible’ Labour Leader.

    As a sideline however, they held the fucking stupid Leader’s Primary where three desperate loonies ran around the country promising everything under the sun except what was Labour Conference approved policy, so as well as uncertainty over Leadership, no one now has any idea what Labour fucking stands for any case.

    No Leader, no policy = no votes. Simple
    As simple as holding two fish up in Parliament and all your loyal sworn supporters letting you do it. :-)
    RIP Labour

    Vote: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. Pete George (23,682 comments) says:

    Yes Fisiani, that could be part of what’s happening, personal ambitions rule and party and Parliament be damned.

    I’ve expanded on your comment: Is Grant Robertson playing the long game?

    Unlike some I think Labour crashing and burning is bad for Parliament and bad for the country. The stronger each party is the stronger Parliament is.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. WineOh (630 comments) says:

    Unbelievable that these folks would rather lose the next election in order to reposition new leadership and take another 3 years in the opposition wilderness rather than get behind Cunliffe.

    Robertson has been suspiciously silent recently. “Silent R” ?

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. Pete George (23,682 comments) says:

    I don’t think Key can or will call an early election, especially not if it’s seen as purely political opportunism. (If after thirty eight attempts Mallard finally scores a hit and brings the Government down that’s a different matter).

    Key has always stood on governing full term and I don’t see any reason why he would change from that.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. dime (10,100 comments) says:

    BeaB – lol summed up perfectly.

    Shane Jones had a great shot with this countdown thing but he has fucked it up.

    Thank god they are in self destruct mode. If national can give us another term, dime will be out of the woods. freehold and happy :D

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. greenjacket (482 comments) says:

    Lessons from 2002:
    National was demoralised and flailing against a confident and well organised Clark Labour government.
    A lot of National voters, thinking the election was lost, either stayed at home or else voted for the smaller parties (United Future, Winston First, Act), and the result was that on election night National got absolutely crushed. The opinion polls failed to detect that National supporters would not bother to vote or try out other parties.
    If this happens to Labour (and currently it is actually looking worse for Labour than it was for National in 2002 – in 2002 National MPs and staff were not white-anting Bill English), then the current 30% they have in the opinion polls will not translate to that in the vote, and we could be looking at Labour being reduced to 20 MPs.
    In 2002 National got crushed, but at least amongst the rump of MPs left there were fresh new faces like John Key, Judith Colins and Gerry Brownlee (who all came in in 2002). In contrast, Labour has not rejuvenated, and if they are left with a rump, it will be a demoralised and fractious bunch at each others’ throats.

    Vote: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. James Stephenson (2,223 comments) says:

    Jones? He is ok but is lazy and his history taints him, he would be more at home in National.

    Not sure about that last bit, if there’s one thing that his grandstanding on the Countdown issue has re-affirmed to me, it’s that Jones is really the natural successor to Winston and should move to NZ First.

    Vote: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. Harriet (5,121 comments) says:

    “…..K,Rudd, L.Brown, D. Cunliffe. J.Key. One is not like the others. It’s getting more obvious daily….”

    K Rudd, L Brown, D Cunliffe, Mr J Key, B Obama, K Jong, F Castro, Mr C Craig,

    Two are not like the others. It’s getting more obvious daily. :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. Pete George (23,682 comments) says:

    greenjacket – also, 2002 was National’s first bid for re-election. Labour have already wasted a term, got their lowest result ever as a result, not learnt anything from their mistakes and have gone on to make even more mistakes this term. And haven’t got the competence to deal with it.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. RF (1,448 comments) says:

    I had an interesting conversation with a friend who is a Labour insider. The word is that in spite of brave speeches Labour has lost the election and Cunliffe will be kept on until being rolled … most likely after the election. If the polls are too bad it might spook them into earlier action. There is a concern that JK will call an early election after boundary changes are confirmed and that will sink them as their finances are not good.

    Their only hope is JK going under a bus.

    The ABC is back and there is quite a split developing in the labour ranks.

    My friend was very careful with what he discussed as apparently Timmy Barnett is the current witch sniffer and seeking out those who are not loyal to the cause.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. flipper (4,198 comments) says:

    Nosty…

    Good stuff. Quite agree.

    The ABC is a sort of throw back to Mike Moore’s Fish and Chip club….. except that it comprises deadbeats.

    As for Cunliffe and his cunning schemes…..

    A search of DPF’s archives would produce some hilarious reporting of “war footing” and ‘the campaign has begun”…. and the ra. ra , ra from the traditional MSmedia suspects.

    +++++++++++

    I hear that the NP bureaucrats in Pipitea Street are planning on a mid September – early October GE date.
    But if there are to be any GE tax sweeteners, W English et al would want to give us a taste from October 1. No? Ergo, my prediction is October 11/18.

    But…… Later? No.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. Keeping Stock (10,414 comments) says:

    @ RF – the same Tim Barnett is also rumoured (via Patrick Gower) to have been grooming Tamati Coffey from TVNZ to take on Te Ururoa Flavell in the Maori electorate of Waiariki. Labour (or Barnett in particular) obviously thinks that Coffey’s TV persona would lead to enough name recognition to give Flavell a run for his money. I have no idea whatsoever whether or not Coffey would even be interested in becoming an MP, but I suspect that his personality would be unsuited to the cut and thrust of Parliament.

    If Labour is hellbent on having a caucus full of journalists and TV personalities, I despair for them. It’s certainly not a recipe for policies that improve the lives of everyday New Zealanders.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. James Stephenson (2,223 comments) says:

    the same Tim Barnett is also rumoured (via Patrick Gower) to have been grooming Tamati Coffey

    I bet he has, I bet he has.
    Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink. Say no more.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. Positan (393 comments) says:

    re Pete George: “Unlike some I think Labour crashing and burning is bad for Parliament and bad for the country. The stronger each party is the stronger Parliament is.”

    The Westminster parliamentary system imagined an effective government with a competent opposition holding it to account. Moving from the concept of electorates electing only their very best to represent them as MPs, the Westminster system’s idealistic drafters wouldn’t have remotely considered such nonsense as the MMP party-list system, where party crawlers of the Left, possessed of looks or personality, but virtually devoid of administrative talent, could actually fulfill the wildest of their trough-supping ambitions by simply ass-licking their way into the good time. Through the absurd structure of MMP, and determined by every one of its “self-interest-before-anything-else” MPs, Labour has effected its problems alone and unassisted. However, the country picks up the ongoing, squandered cost of all their time-wasting, plus the damage – and the ongoing damage potential for our country has become utterly incalculable.

    “The stronger each party is … ” I’d suggest, “the stronger the system is” … and rely on letting an informed and aware electorate determine the composition and substance of whatever parties it chose to govern and oppose.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. Pete George (23,682 comments) says:

    Apparently some of that ‘grooming’ has had threats attached:

    @MorganGodfery

    Reckless. Leakers everywhere. Carrot -we’ll offer you a place – and stick – take it or we’ll reveal and ruin you

    The same tactic was used against JW. The carrot – the offer of a place – and the stick – we will reveal our offer if you refuse and ruin you.

    It’s not going to be all “full of journalists and TV personalities”. There may be a low chance of success for her but this is Labour’s latest electorate selection:

    Labour picks hopeful to take on Dunne

    Labour will tomorrow confirm Virginia Andersen as its candidate for Ohariu to take on UnitedFuture leader Peter Dunne.

    Ms Andersen has worked for the Office of Treaty Settlements, police and as a private secretary and senior political adviser with Labour in Parliament.

    Labour’s caucus is likely to be a combination of:
    – failed leaders
    – a failed leader
    – dead wood
    – ex-staffers
    – journalists and TV personalities

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. Pete George (23,682 comments) says:

    “and rely on letting an informed and aware electorate”

    Ideally, yes. Very difficult to achieve in practice.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Imagine Robertson and Alf (husband and wife, wife and husband) being feted at UN by Clark and Simpson, what a quartet, bet Putin wouldn’t attend, even Muslims would run.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. OneTrack (3,221 comments) says:

    “Labour’s caucus is likely to be a combination of:
    – failed leaders
    – a failed leader
    – dead wood
    – ex-staffers
    – journalists and TV personalities”

    What else do you need when your policies are to punish success, and, tax and spend other peoples money?

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. johnwellingtonwells (137 comments) says:

    Describes the ABCs
    Meet the gang ‘cos the boys are here, the boys to entertain you…”
    …With music and laughter to send you on your way —
    We’re raising the rafters with a hey-hey-hey!
    With songs and sketches and comedy too —
    So come with us and you won’t feel blue!

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. Duxton (657 comments) says:

    “Has there ever been a reaction like this against a party leader from his own caucus in New Zealand?”

    Yes. Helen Clark and her fellow travellers did the same thing to Mike Moore in 1993. It must be a Labour thing……

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. Positan (393 comments) says:

    “Yes. Helen Clark and her fellow travelers did the same thing to Mike Moore in 1993.”

    Surely it was 1990?

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. tvb (4,501 comments) says:

    The Roy Morgan poll is the least reliable in Australia but they all seem to be saying the same thing. John Key has not announced the date yet. I suspect they will bring down a good budget and go soon after that.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. edhunter (552 comments) says:

    On a personal level the ABC’s (at least the ones mentioned) have nothing to lose, they’re all safely ensconced in heartland Labour seats, all have no chance of being anything but backbenchers even if Labour win & it’s not their fault that there’s no leader worth his/her salt to fill Helen’s shoes.
    What are the chances of Arden having a shot at the leadership when they lose?

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  51. Duxton (657 comments) says:

    Positan: It was 1993. It was the year of Bolger’s famous ‘bugger the pollsters’ vote.

    There is a famous story of Moore having to put up Labour placards in a number of Labour electorates (including Clark’s) because the incumbent MPs and their branch organisations couldn’t be bothered.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  52. Kimbo (1,052 comments) says:

    “Yes. Helen Clark and her fellow travellers did the same thing to Mike Moore in 1993. It must be a Labour thing……”

    And David Lange, Roger Douglas and Richard Prebble to Bill Rowling in 1981…

    It is DEFINITELY a Labour thing.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  53. Paulus (2,660 comments) says:

    Labour MP s only care whether they get paid or not – the rest well!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  54. CrazyIvan (90 comments) says:

    Labour today is like the UK Conservative Party between 1997 and 2005, directionless, factionalised and going through a procession of leaders who failed to ignite public imagination. As someone said the next Labour PM is probably not even an MP at the moment. Certainly there’s no one there currently that remotely looks like turning Labour into a 40%+ party.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  55. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Paulus: You are so correct, not one of them has the ability to hold a job in our private sector, operate a successful business, or stand on their own feet. Take a look at past positions they have held: failed socialists, failed academics, union organisers, or bludging public servants. They have nothing to offer anyone, least of all Treasury benches.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  56. Monty (980 comments) says:

    Is it still BBQ season?

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  57. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    @big bruv – “I love watching the left tear itself apart. ”

    Yep, isn’t it GREAT! Awesome stuff!

    @big bruv – “I am starting to think that they will not survive another election loss.”

    Oh, **if only it could be so……..**
    There is a fly in the ointment though. The left still control the education – sorry, *indoctrination* – system and the media.

    In order for the left to be completely destroyed, those areas need to be “fumigated” (as it were) to remove all leftist influence.

    There *may* be some hope though – charter schools.

    If the Nats can get back in, that’ll mean that the charter schools will have had four years up and running (counting this year) by the time that the 2017 election comes along.

    If they work well (as I believe they will), then National can do a road-show into *heartland Labour* territory in South Auckland and the like, and say “SEE what we are doing for the poor? All of the left’s bullshit that “the right doesn’t care” is just that – bullshit. We have done more for the poor in our nine years than Labour has EVER done. We have helped people off welfare and into work too. ALL that Labour has done is give handouts that make people MORE dependent on the state. Labour “gives people fish” – WE “TEACH them to fish”. ”

    I for one will be doing *everything* in my power to help National and to FIGHT Labour and the Greens.

    I will NOT be holding back. I ***DESPISE*** the left.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote