A hateful man

March 21st, 2014 at 10:00 am by David Farrar

Stuff reports:

The Reverend Sr., the fiery founder of a small Kansas church who led outrageous and hate-filled protests that blamed almost everything, including the deaths of AIDS victims and US soldiers, on America’s tolerance for gay people, has died. He was 84.

Daughter Margie Phelps said Phelps, whose actions drew international condemnation, died around midnight on Wednesday (local time). She didn’t provide the cause of death or the condition that recently put him in hospice care.

The so called church was basically his extended family. The sad thing is that such a small sad bunch of people could generate international media coverage when they did one of their relentless protests.

Phelps is a disbarred lawyer who physically abused his wife and children, and even got excommunicated from his own church eventually. Scarily in 1992 he got 31% of the vote in Kansas in the Democratic primary for the US Senate!

It will be interesting if his own funeral is picketed by members of his former church.

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76 Responses to “A hateful man”

  1. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    The religion of morality (having no substance in the spirit filled life ) goes a long way in the United States of Condemnation

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  2. RRM (9,667 comments) says:

    I remember seeing a tv article about them… the saddest part was his teenaged granddaughter was about to go off to Uni and she was going to go in one of their “god hates fags” shirts to spread the word.

    She seemed pretty fervent about it all, but there was also clearly a hint of doubt there. I hope living with good people showed her the light and she got the hell out of all that god hates shit…?

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  3. kowtow (7,953 comments) says:

    Democrats ?

    No surprises there.

    Look at the hate filled racist loon who occupies the White House at he moment.

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  4. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    All intelligent people should rejoice at the demise of this bastard and monster.

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  5. RRM (9,667 comments) says:

    Democrats ?

    No surprises there.

    LOL what? That’s a huge surprise, it’s normally the other lot that are all uber-christian and God this, God that…

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  6. metcalph (1,410 comments) says:

    I’ve heard his excommunication was a fiction so that his church wouldn’t have to cough up his health costs while he was dying.

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  7. ShawnLH (4,441 comments) says:

    I don’t normally engage in judgement’s about anyone’s final state, but in this case I’m going to assume that Phelp’s is now in Hell.

    ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength, and your neighbor as yourself.’

    He was clearly confused about this commandment.

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  8. Nigel Kearney (919 comments) says:

    The sad thing is that such a small sad bunch of people could generate international media coverage …

    There will always be a small number of idiots doing idiotic things who don’t pose any great threat to others and can quite safely be ignored. The reason these particular idiots got media coverage is partly because people foolishly went to court to try to silence them, but mostly because the media really want to create the impression that these people represent the views of all conservatives.

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  9. ShawnLH (4,441 comments) says:

    “The reason these particular idiots got media coverage is partly because people foolishly went to court to try to silence them, but mostly because the media really want to create the impression that these people represent the views of all conservatives.”

    Partly yes, though I think part of it was Phelp’s habit of protesting at the funerals of military vets killed in war.

    NO true conservative would ever do something like that. It was disgusting in the extreme.

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  10. ChardonnayGuy (1,187 comments) says:

    Rest assured, I don’t think that anyone believed that this creature was representative of mainstream US centre-right figures, or even religious social conservatives. Obviously I have issues with his nauseating homophobia, but the ratbag in question also picketed the funerals of *nongay* slain US combat casualties from the Iraqi and Afghan Wars. I’m all for free speech, but what about the grieving families of those young men and women? Phelps also received support from Saddam Hussein to protest against the United States and actually went to Baghdad with his odious sect before the Iraqi War and the deposition and subsequent execution of the murderous tyrant in question. Even when Saddam was responsible for the poison gas slaughter of about thirty thousand Northern Iraqi Kurds when he used chemical weapons against the inhabitants of Halabja and Salmanniya in 1988? Yeah.

    Parking my distaste at the misanthrope in question at the kerbside, here’s my obituary for Phelps:

    http://www.gaynz.com/articles/publish/31/printer_14795.php

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  11. Kimble (4,415 comments) says:

    … but mostly because the media really want to create the impression that these people represent the views of all conservatives.

    Is there a way to auto-thumbs-up Nigel Kearneys comments?

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  12. weizguy (120 comments) says:

    “I’ve heard his excommunication was a fiction so that his church wouldn’t have to cough up his health costs while he was dying.”

    His excommunication would be consistent with their beliefs. I think I recall Shirley (or one of her daughters) explaining that if someone died before the rapture, they were not one of the elect. If that’s their dogma, they must believe that Fred wasn’t worthy.

    I’d like to think that Westboro Baptist provides a cautionary tale that would cause people to think about how they treat the “other”. I’d like to think…

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  13. ChardonnayGuy (1,187 comments) says:

    Christ, he and his sickening cult were even going to picket the funerals of those kiddies massacred at the Sandy Hook shooting tragedy. I almost wished I still believed in hell. Unfortunately, the cult’s still there and survived its misanthropic founder’s demise.

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  14. stephieboy (2,540 comments) says:

    kowtow, your delusions are getting the better of you re your mad and hateful obsession with “the Kenyan.”

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  15. Huevon (211 comments) says:

    Spare us your crocodile tears. Liberals loved the Westboro Baptist Church: the Straw Man version of Christianity personified!

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  16. Judith (8,460 comments) says:

    Religion – I wonder if anyone has ever done some calculations – Harm done by it, versus positive achievements, or how about lives lost due to religious belief, compared to lives saved?

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  17. mandk (885 comments) says:

    ShawnLH: “He was clearly confused about this commandment”

    I actually wonder how familiar he was with the NT, or whether he actually believed its teachings. I have the same doubts about pastors who predict the date of the end time.

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  18. weizguy (120 comments) says:

    “mostly because the media really want to create the impression that these people represent the views of all conservatives.”

    I think much of the outcry (particularly amongst conservatives) is to distract from the fact that church preaches a christianity that is biblically consistent. Many conservatives don’t disagree with the message, just the medium – it’s okay to tell gay people that they are going to hell, as long as you don’t do it outside a military funeral.

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  19. ShawnLH (4,441 comments) says:

    “Religion – I wonder if anyone has ever done some calculations – Harm done by it, versus positive achievements, or how about lives lost due to religious belief, compared to lives saved?”

    “Religion” is too general a term to have any concrete meaning. All human beings are religious by nature. Virtually every political ideology you can name, including “secular” liberalism, has religious underpinnings.

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  20. nasska (10,912 comments) says:

    Other than the protests at the servicemen’s funerals Fred & his bunch of loops would make ready pewmates with 50% of the conservative Godnutters who comment here.

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  21. Ryan Sproull (7,060 comments) says:

    A sad, broken human being.

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  22. Judith (8,460 comments) says:

    @ nasska (9,198 comments) says:
    March 21st, 2014 at 10:44 am

    I’m glad you said pew mates and not bed mates, the thought of them procreating is just a little too much for a Friday morning.

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  23. weizguy (120 comments) says:

    “I actually wonder how familiar he was with the NT, or whether he actually believed its teachings.”

    Seeing as the concept of hell (at least the eternal torment version – the version preferred by Westboro) was introduced by Jesus, you’d have to think he had a passing understanding of the New Testament.

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  24. ShawnLH (4,441 comments) says:

    “is to distract from the fact that church preaches a christianity that is biblically consistent.”

    I would disagree with that. Jesus said that the mark of His true disciples was their love for one another and for the “other”. He also says we should concern ourselves with our own sins and shortcomings, not other peoples.

    I don’t think homosexuality was or is part of God’s ideal for marriage, but Jesus was always vastly more concerned with what was in peoples hearts rather than external religious obedience. A secular homosexual who spends his/her life trying to be genuinely loving towards others is closer to the Kingdom than a Christian who spends theirs condemning others sins and trumpeting their own supposed righteousness.

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  25. thedavincimode (6,590 comments) says:

    My condolences kowtow.

    Was he a close relative?

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  26. ChardonnayGuy (1,187 comments) says:

    From my article on the ratbag, here’s Phelps stated theological basis for his activities:

    In theological terms, Phelps describes himself as a “Primitive Baptist”, which means that his church has a strong religious separatist orientation and refuses to co-operate with others, even other fundamentalist churches, in trying to convert people to fundamentalist religious beliefs. Phelps and his Westboro Baptist Church also practise a set of beliefs known as the “Five Points” of conservative Calvinist fundamentalist Protestantism. They include belief in the “total depravity” of humanity; predetermined “elect” status for those that God foreordains for “salvation;” ‘limited atonement’, which means that Christ died to ‘redeem” only this “elect;’ irresistable grace, which means that fundamentalist conversion of the eventual ‘elect’ is preordained; and “perserverance of the saints”, which means that the “elect” are “fated” to continue in their path. Taken together, these beliefs may help explain the pressure-cooker intensive cultist and sectarian subsequent behaviour of the late Fred Phelps and his entourage of offspring, grandchildren and others within his sect.

    Therefore, Phelps was a particular form of hypersectarian. Although a fundamentalist Baptist, he didn’t even break bread with others from the same theological tradition.

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  27. weizguy (120 comments) says:

    “A secular homosexual who spends his/her life trying to be genuinely loving towards others is closer to the Kingdom than a Christian who spends theirs condemning others sins and trumpeting their own supposed righteousness.”

    That’s not what Jesus says –
    John 14:6 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. and
    John 11:25 “Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die”

    With the first, you could make an argument for the postmodern position – that you don’t need to believe, you just need to be Christ-like, but the second seems pretty clear – the bible says that you need to believe in Jesus to go to heaven (I’m assuming you’re substituting “secular” for non-believer – I wish people would stop doing this, being secular is irrelevant to your religion, or lack thereof).

    I find the Westboro Baptist church distasteful, but they do demonstrate the problem of deriving your morality from religious texts.

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  28. ShawnLH (4,441 comments) says:

    Five point Calvinism is not, imho, consistent with Scripture. But it does explain a lot about Westboro.

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  29. ShawnLH (4,441 comments) says:

    Weizguy,

    Yes I get what your saying. But the question about belief in Jesus was how did Jesus explain how this belief in him works out in a persons life? Can a person believe in Jesus without being consciously aware that that is what they are doing, by the way they choose to live? Jesus’ parable about goats and sheep is instructive. The sheep turn out to be those who loved their neighbors, but had no idea they were following (believing) in Jesus, and in fact they express surprise that that is what they were doing. The goats are those who were sure they were following Jesus, but failed to love others.

    ( I agree that secular is a poor choice of word for what I was trying to say)

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  30. Judith (8,460 comments) says:

    The sheep turn out to be those who loved their neighbors, but had no idea they were following (believing) in Jesus

    So, people who love their neighbours, and treat them as they would themselves, believe in Jesus by default?

    Man is that ever stuffed up thinking – that is so wrong on so many levels, where does one start? :)

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  31. ChardonnayGuy (1,187 comments) says:

    Apparently, the Westboro cult’s theological traditions also prevent commemoration and mourning of members individual deaths, so they won’t be at their founder’s funeral. And there’s an intensive debate going on within LGBTdom about retaliatory protests at his funeral. Personally, I don’t think we should be stooping to their level.

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  32. weizguy (120 comments) says:

    I can tell you that I do not believe that Jesus is divine, and yet I think I do live a good life. Jesus had some good things to say, and some bad things, but they’re irrelevant to my understanding of good and bad. I don’t think it’s appropriate to claim someone is following Jesus when they advise you that they most definitely are not, and that their actions arise from an entirely separate moral code.

    As for Five Point Calvinism being inconsistent with scripture, I think you’d find similar disagreements across all Christian sects: transubstantiation, torment/annihilationism, prosperity doctrine… You can justify many things using the bible (and many have). I’m just annoyed about the attempts by some to distance themselves from the medium, while still promoting the message (and to be clear, I’m not talking about Christians as a whole, I’m talking about those Christians who would like homosexuals to be treated differently because they love someone of the same sex).

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  33. mandk (885 comments) says:

    nasska :’.. Fred & his bunch of loops would make ready pewmates with 50% of the conservative Godnutters who comment here”.

    I’d be interested to see an analysis of where the hate filled comments on KB come from: the Godnutters (as you call them, in a hate-free way of course) or the Atheists.

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  34. mandk (885 comments) says:

    weizguy at 10.49

    Surely there is a difference between knowledge and understanding. You might have memorised the entire Bible and be able to cite scripture to suit any particular argument, but this doesn’t imply an understanding.

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  35. ChardonnayGuy (1,187 comments) says:

    For scholarly souls…

    Brian Britt: “Curses Left and Right: Hate Speech and the Biblical Tradition” Journal of the American Academy of Religion: 78:3: (2010): 633-661

    Daniel Brouwer and Aaron Hess: “Making Sense of ‘God hates Fags’ and ‘Thank God for 9/11′: A thematic analysis of milbloggers responses to Reverend Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church” Western Journal of Communication: 71:1: January-March 2007: 69-90.

    Gerhard Casper and Kathy Sullivan: Snyder versus Phelps: Bethseda: Proquest: 2011.

    Lauren Drain: Banished: Surviving My Years in the Westboro Baptist Church: New York: Grand Central: 2013

    Mark Guarino: “Could Westboro Baptist Church survive without founder Fred Phelps?|” Christian Science Monitor: 17.03.2014: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2014/0317/Could-Westboro-Baptist-Church-survive-without-founder-Fred-Phelps

    Rick Musser: “Fred Phelps versus Topeka” in Elaine Sharp (ed) Culture Wars and Local Politics: Lawrence: University of Kansas Press: 1999.

    And as for the comments about fundamentalist/conservative evangelical rejection of Phelps, it is worth noting that several such organisations actually *applauded* Phelps/Westboro’s ban from entering the United Kingdom:

    An alliance of six British religious groups (the Baptist Union of Great Britain, Evangelical Alliance UK, Faithworks, Methodist Church of Great Britain, United Reformed Church and Bible Society-funded thinktank Theos) made a joint statement on February 19, 2009 in support of the government’s decision and condemning the activities of the Westboro Baptist Church saying, “We do not share [Westboro's] hatred of lesbian and gay people. We believe that God loves all, irrespective of sexual orientation, and we unreservedly stand against their message of hate toward those communities”

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  36. SGA (959 comments) says:

    mandk at 11:42 am

    I’d be interested to see an analysis of where the hate filled comments on KB come from: the Godnutters (as you call them, in a hate-free way of course) or the Atheists.

    Funny you should say that – after a few recent General Debates, I was idly wondering about a similar analysis concerning conspiracy theorists.

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  37. big bruv (13,562 comments) says:

    Imagine this mans disappointment to find that in death there is no afterlife.

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  38. weizguy (120 comments) says:

    mandk

    “You might have memorised the entire Bible and be able to cite scripture to suit any particular argument, but this doesn’t imply an understanding.”

    That’s my point. Whose understanding? The Calvinist’s, The Catholic’s, The Mooney’s, The Brethren’s, The Mormon’s? There’s no point playing No True Scotsman here.

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  39. RRM (9,667 comments) says:

    mandk (606 comments) says:
    March 21st, 2014 at 11:42 am

    I’d be interested to see an analysis of where the hate filled comments on KB come from: the Godnutters (as you call them, in a hate-free way of course) or the Atheists.

    :lol: LOL, that’s a good one, you’re really funny MANKed.

    For a minute there, I thought you were smearing all the atheist commentators on this blog with an insinuation that what gets discussed on here is even on the same PLANET as those WBC cnuts haranguing grieving families at servicemens’ funerals with their bizarre propaganda.

    But then I thought: no, surely not, even MANKed is not that delusional..

    …You’re not, are you? :neutral:

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  40. ShawnLH (4,441 comments) says:

    “I can tell you that I do not believe”

    That’s nice. Why did you feel the need to tell me?

    ” I don’t think it’s appropriate to claim someone is following Jesus when they advise you that they most definitely are not”

    Oh well. Agree to disagree.

    “and that their actions arise from an entirely separate moral code.”

    I’m not talking about moral codes. Moral codes/rules are just attempts to work out the pragmatics of morality for everyday life.

    Love is not a moral code.

    “I think you’d find similar disagreements across all Christian sects”

    And much agreement.

    “You can justify many things using the bible (and many have).”

    And you can justify anything with anything; Democracy, communism, liberalism, conservatism, poverty and so forth have all been used to justify both good and bad. That does not mean that truth cannot also be justified and found in the world, or for that matter, in Scripture. Everyone chooses an authority, whether it’s human rights, or “reason” (always conveniently defined), or fairness, or social justice or being “pragmatic” or democratic majorities.

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  41. Lance (2,565 comments) says:

    @wiezguy
    So why are you ignoring the good Samaritan parable?

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  42. Kimble (4,415 comments) says:

    Scientific ignorance– I wonder if anyone has ever done some calculations – Harm done by it, versus positive achievements, or how about lives lost due to scientific ignorance, compared to lives saved?

    Belief in fairies – I wonder if anyone has ever done some calculations – Harm done by it, versus positive achievements, or how about lives lost due to belief in fairies, compared to lives saved?

    Comfortable stupidity – I wonder if anyone has ever done some calculations – Harm done by it, versus positive achievements, or how about lives lost due to comfortable stupidity, compared to lives saved?

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  43. Lance (2,565 comments) says:

    @Kinmble
    Not to mention far left ideologues…..

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  44. nasska (10,912 comments) says:

    Interesting that parable of the Good Samaritan: The two righteous, correct-religion blokes are shitheads while the foreign, heathen (Atheist?) Samaritan is the good guy.

    Weirdly, the religious nutters on Kiwiblog seem to think the first two who passed over the bloody and beaten man were the good guys.

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  45. Lance (2,565 comments) says:

    @nasska

    Exactly!!!

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  46. ShawnLH (4,441 comments) says:

    “Weirdly, the religious nutters on Kiwiblog seem to think the first two who passed over the bloody and beaten man were the good guys.”

    The Samaritan was a religious man. The Samaritan faith was a variant of Judaism. I would be curious if you can prove your statement about Christians on kb. I’m inclined to doubt it.

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  47. Lance (2,565 comments) says:

    @nassaka
    No not Atheist, more a despised group of mixed race and considered a cult, heretics if you like.

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  48. mandk (885 comments) says:

    @RRM
    No, nasska was putting the KB Godnutters, as he offensively likes to call them, into the same pew as hate-filled Fred.
    My observation was simply about whether there are more hate-filled comments from atheists on KB than there are from believers.
    What do you reckon?

    btw, what is the MANKed thing about?

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  49. ShawnLH (4,441 comments) says:

    “My observation was simply about whether there are more hate-filled comments from atheists on KB than there are from believers. What do you reckon?”

    Easily.

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  50. mandk (885 comments) says:

    @ nasska

    Samaritans were/are not atheists.

    The story about the good Samaritan in Luke makes it abundantly clear who the good guy was. Jesus gets the expert in the law to acknowledge that the Samaritan was the good guy and tells him to behave likewise.

    If you want to know what Jesus thought of people like the Levite and Priest who passed on the other side, you could read about the seven woes in Matthew’s gospel.

    Happy to guide you to chapter and verse in Luke and Matthew, if you are interested.

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  51. weizguy (120 comments) says:

    ShwanLH

    “Oh well. Agree to disagree.”

    You actually think that it’s intellectually honest to tell a Muslim who (you would judge) is living a good life, that they are actually following Jesus? An Atheist? A Hindu? Doesn’t that seem both arrogant and patronising to you?

    You are talking about moral codes. Moral codes are what help us decide how we should live our lives. Yours is derived from your interpretation of the message of Jesus. Mine is not.

    You’re right, Love is not a moral code (I never suggested it was), but letting people love who they love is consistent with my moral code.

    “And much agreement.”

    I’m sure that, theologically speaking, many conservative Christians agree with much of the Westboro Baptist Church’s teachings. Which is why the disagreements are the focus of this conversation.

    “Everyone chooses an authority”

    I don’t. To do so would be to idolise a logical fallacy. I suspect I make decisions about morality the same way you do, I simply acknowledge that my inspiration isn’t divine.

    Lance

    I’m not. Nor am I ignoring the other good statements attributed to Jesus. I’m just not ignoring the bad as well. I wonder how you are able to determine which of Jesus’ commandments to follow, and which to ignore:
    Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.”

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  52. ciaron (1,389 comments) says:

    big bruv (12,196 comments) says:
    March 21st, 2014 at 11:56 am
    Imagine this mans disappointment to find that in death there is no afterlife.

    You can prove this unequivocally, I take it?

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  53. nasska (10,912 comments) says:

    mandk

    Not even slightly interested in getting into a long pointless to & fro with a religious semanticist over the “correct” interpretation of a two thousand year old bed time story.

    If you want to keep the score on who hates who on KB comments then go for it. If you find yourself getting bored with your new hobby consider that the God Dodgers are only reacting to a bunch of zealots who are determined to impose the wishes of their imaginary friend on everyone.

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  54. jawnbc (63 comments) says:

    The sad thing isn’t that he garnered so much media bandwidth: the sad thing is that when he “only” targetted the gay community the mainstream media didn’t give a damn. Once he started protesting the funerals of soldier—well, in ‘Merka that’s worth fighting for.

    He and his ilk tormented gay people for over two decades—and the world shrugged for much of that time. Until he protested Matthew Shepard’s funeral. The combination of torture murder and Phelps’celebration of Shepard’s death proved to be a turning point.

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  55. RRM (9,667 comments) says:

    btw, what is the MANKed thing about?

    Glad you asked – it’s because of your username, it makes me think of mank, as in:

    Urban Dictionary: mank
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mank‎
    Mank. Something that is disgusting to look at. That girl is mank.

    Except you have a d in it, hence mank’d or manked.

    It helps that I don’t like strident conservative opinions especially those with a religious basis, and we’ve probably traded blows on here before…

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  56. mandk (885 comments) says:

    @ RRM

    ok, more vituperation then.

    Thank you.

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  57. Jim Rose (35 comments) says:

    Phelps was also a staunch democrat and an award winning stalwart of the 60s and 70s civil rights movement for his legal work. He and most of his family are lawyers.

    Few in the media mention that Clinton invited Phelps to both of his presidential inaugurations as a payback for his foot soldiering in the state democratic party.

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  58. Harriet (4,616 comments) says:

    At least Phelps ain’t a coward who shys away from saying what he thinks!

    So fucken what that Phelps abused a few people………….he’s hardly in the league of women who abort………..using lethal weapons on those who are not armed……………fucken cowards alright!

    I don’t shy away either. :cool:

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  59. stephieboy (2,540 comments) says:

    Harriet reveals who true political mask which bears a closer and closer resemblance to the apostles of hate.!

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  60. Gulag1917 (815 comments) says:

    Westboro Baptist’s strategy worked; get people wound up, get publicity and get their message out. All the suckers who fell for the strategy should have done one thing, just ignore them.

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  61. Harriet (4,616 comments) says:

    “…..Until he protested Matthew Shepard’s funeral. The combination of torture murder and Phelps’celebration of Shepard’s death proved to be a turning point….”

    The Sheppard story of gay hate and torture has turned out to be false – he had been/was in – a gay relationship with his drug dealer – who was also his killer. Straights and gay hate were no where near Sheppard or his place of death. The story was conspired by gays and/or their supporters.

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  62. stephieboy (2,540 comments) says:

    Harriet, it would be helpful if you could source your quotes in respect of a gay Conspiracy. Here’s mine,

    http://www.salon.com/1999/11/06/witness/

    Yours.???

    The depths your seething hatreds plummet.!

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  63. gump (1,553 comments) says:

    @Harriet

    What is wrong with you?

    Did your mum drop you on your head when you were a baby?

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  64. BlairM (2,307 comments) says:

    Phelps was a heretic. He preached that God hates fags, when God is Love. He dared to judge deceased individuals as being “in hell”. Nobody is “in hell” yet, since the Judgment has not taken place. Instead of praying for the lost, he picketed them. Phelps thought death was a good thing. He saw death as a part of God’s justice. This is a false doctrine, “For God did not make death, neither does He have pleasure over the destruction of the living.” (Wisdom 1:13, Deuterocanon).

    I take no pleasure in Phelps death. Death is the separation of soul and body. It is a tragedy. If, as a Christian, you were prepared to judge him, but can’t bring yourself to pray for Phelps’ soul, you’re quite literally no better than he is.

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  65. leftyliberal (642 comments) says:

    Against my better judgement, but I’m intrigued as to which teaching suggests that “praying for Phelps’ soul” would be of any benefit for Phelps at this point?

    Are these prayers going to change the outcome of the upcoming “Judgement” ?

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  66. Chinarugby (84 comments) says:

    Harriet – you say such hateful awful things, you must enjoy the reactions – does it add to your day?

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  67. BlairM (2,307 comments) says:

    Against my better judgement, but I’m intrigued as to which teaching suggests that “praying for Phelps’ soul” would be of any benefit for Phelps at this point?

    The dead are yet to be judged (Revelation 20:5). They are in Hades as disembodied souls awaiting their resurrection and final judgment. Therefore they can be interceded for (2 Maccabees 12:40-45, Deuterocanon). Their judgment is not instantaneous or predestined, as many Protestants believe.

    Are these prayers going to change the outcome of the upcoming “Judgement” ?

    Who can say? But the prayers of a righteous man availeth much! (James 5:16)

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  68. eszett (2,374 comments) says:

    Huevon (79 comments) says:
    March 21st, 2014 at 10:35 am
    Spare us your crocodile tears. Liberals loved the Westboro Baptist Church: the Straw Man version of Christianity personified!

    No true scotsman?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

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  69. eszett (2,374 comments) says:

    I don’t shy away either

    lol, on a blog,hiding behind a pseudonym.
    You brave thing, you!

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  70. ShawnLH (4,441 comments) says:

    Weizguy,

    “You actually think that it’s intellectually honest to tell a Muslim who (you would judge) is living a good life, that they are actually following Jesus? An Atheist? A Hindu? Doesn’t that seem both arrogant and patronising to you?”

    No. But I would clarify that I did not say anything about living a good life, but about the degree of love for neighbor.

    “I’m sure that, theologically speaking, many conservative Christians agree with much of the Westboro Baptist Church’s teachings.”

    I seriously doubt it. This particular variant of Baptist theology is a tiny minority with very odd views.

    ““Everyone chooses an authority”

    I don’t.”

    Yes you do. Provably so. You will have a number of meta-principles that are authoritative for you.

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  71. ShawnLH (4,441 comments) says:

    “I wonder how you are able to determine which of Jesus’ commandments to follow, and which to ignore:”

    I strive to follow all of them.

    “Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.””

    Note that word “fulfill”. Jesus is talking about His role with regards to the fulfillment of Judaism (the Law and the Prophets).

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  72. big bruv (13,562 comments) says:

    “I strive to follow all of them.”

    Including the one about spreading the word of your God?

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  73. ShawnLH (4,441 comments) says:

    “Including the one about spreading the word of your God?”

    You mean Matthew 28:19?

    Yes.

    And He’s your God as well ;)

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  74. big bruv (13,562 comments) says:

    ShawnLH

    OK, yet in an earlier post you have a crack at weizguy for “feeling the need” to tell you he is an atheist. Are only god botherers like yourself allowed to say what they feel?

    Oh, and Shawn, the thing you believe in is not my god at all. I have no problem with you believing in the sky fairy, all that I ask is that you leave me and all the other atheists alone.

    Sadly, you are totally unable to do so.

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  75. BlairM (2,307 comments) says:

    Personally I believe in the Triune God, not a sky fairy. I don’t even know what a sky fairy is, or why some people keep bringing it up. I’m not sure anybody believes in fairies, other than the odd Icelander.

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  76. ShawnLH (4,441 comments) says:

    “OK, yet in an earlier post you have a crack at weizguy for “feeling the need” to tell you he is an atheist. ”

    Actually I was genuinely curious, not having a crack.

    “Are only god botherers like yourself allowed to say what they feel?”

    The thread was related to Christian issues to begin with so it is hardly surprising that those issues get expressed.

    “I have no problem with you believing in the sky fairy, all that I ask is that you leave me and all the other atheists alone.”

    No, what your asking is to never hear from us at all. Sadly you’ll just have to grow up and accept that sometimes you have to deal with people you don’t agree with. Get over it.

    And I believe in the Creator of the Universe. I leave the sky faeries to the “atheist” religion.

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