Another flag design

March 20th, 2014 at 10:00 am by David Farrar

NZ flag suggestion

 

Sent in by another reader. They note:

Interesting suggestion on your blog post on 18 March. This one (attached) has been floating around for a while, pre-dating as far as I am aware the one you posted. I don’t know who designed it, so can’t give it credit.

It strikes a chord with pretty well everyone who sees it – incorporates the fern and black portion, as well as the red Southern Cross stars. I think it’s a cleaner design (simpler, less busy) than the one with red substituted for the black portion.

Less red is not a bad thing :-)

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58 Responses to “Another flag design”

  1. flipper (4,051 comments) says:

    Pretty good.

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  2. Andrei (2,640 comments) says:

    Ah yes, a fine computer graphic but can it be easily realized in canvas form such that it can fly from a flag pole?

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  3. Daigotsu (456 comments) says:

    Talentless crap

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  4. Shazzadude (529 comments) says:

    It’s too busy.

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  5. Rick Rowling (813 comments) says:

    can it be easily realized in canvas form such that it can fly from a flag pole?

    Happily we’ve moved on from needing to sew pieces of coloured fabric together to make a flag. Digital fabric printing means we’re not limited like our ancestors

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  6. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    can it be easily realized in canvas form such that it can fly from a flag pole?

    Do they use canvas now? Shouldn’t matter anyway, they print many things to many fabrics these days, including photo images.

    You can already get silver fern flags similar to this – see https://www.flagmakers.co.nz/flagmakers-silver-fern/

    Wales has a picture of a dragon on their flag. The US flag is a complex one and they seem to have managed to churn out plenty of them.

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  7. Peter (1,712 comments) says:

    Not as good as the red version.

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  8. iMP (2,384 comments) says:

    Exactly the same as the other flag design with a colour switch-out. You can’t have white airbrushing on a flag as here.

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  9. Camryn (543 comments) says:

    I don’t like any of the designs that mix the fern with >1 colour. In fact, I can’t stand them. From an aesthetic perspective…
    * Existing flag – good
    * Fern on black background – good
    * Fern on blue background – good
    * Existing flag sans Union Jack, centred southern cross – fine
    * Something with fern, stars, and >1 background colour – BAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRFFFFFFFFF!

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  10. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    The referendum hasn’t even been done, and won’t be for sometime, and already we’re winding up the ol’ propaganda machine, placing the thought within Kiwi minds that we need to choose what sort of flag we are going to have for the new one. You gotta give to Key, he’s a master manipulator.

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  11. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    I like this version, it has the advantage of linking with the very common fern on black background without totally replicating it, and still retaining a strong link to the current colours and design.

    I’ve posted this one along with the Lockwood design and the current flag for comparison: Flag alternatives

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  12. Fox (206 comments) says:

    This to me looks like one of those lukewarm ‘halfway house’ designs, retaining about 50% of the flag we already have.

    If we are going to go through all the trouble of changing the flag, we might as well do it properly or just don’t bother with it at all.

    I think a clean silver fern design is still the most preferable option. It would be bold, striking, and leave people in no doubt as to what and who it represents. Much like the Canadian maple leaf.

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  13. burt (8,269 comments) says:

    What about Winston’s “NO” sign as a flag ?

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  14. earlyfknsettler (10 comments) says:

    At this point as long as it doesn’t have any Maardi crap on it I would vote for it. However we as a nation are going to be set up over this flag issue in a not so democratic manner, this is how: First a referendum on do we want to change the flag. The majority says YES to change the flag. Second, the government “selects” prominent individuals to design a selection of flags, these individuals will be people like Claudia Orange, Dame Salmond, Iwi consultation groups. Thirdly a series of “hui” around the country will be carried out to ascertain public opinion and acceptance of the design options. Finally a referendum will be held asking us all to select the flag we like best etc, but none of the flags will be “liked” by the majority, only by the activist minority. So democracy will be cleverly subverted once again. We voted to change the flag, so the original flag goes “off the table” as a choice and we are then presented with what the Bicultural movement really wants, four or so choices of very non-euro pro-separatist new age tribal sovereignty designs. Key’s new coalition deal with the Racist party..

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  15. Ashley Schaeffer (487 comments) says:

    This one matches the Kyle Lockwood design with a colour switchout. I doubt that this predates the ‘red’ version. Regardless, I prefer the primary Kyle Lockwood design with the red in the top-left.

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  16. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    There’s another subtle difference between this one and the Lockwood design. Lockwood’s fern comes from the bottom left corner, while this one starts a bit above the corner, which I think looks better. You can see this here:
    http://yournz.org/2014/03/20/flag-alternatives/

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  17. ciaron (1,431 comments) says:

    Talk about putting the cart before the horse……

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  18. Igotta Numbum (463 comments) says:

    You don’t want black on the flag… black signifies death, across the sub-continent.

    When the NZ Inc branding came out, everyone thought it was awesome…. and it does look good, but a lot of the NZ Inc aligned organisations had to have special runs of business collateral done on a white background so as to not offend specifically targeted markets.

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  19. backster (2,171 comments) says:

    Why not dispense with the silver fern and put a rugby ball there instead.

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  20. Peter (1,712 comments) says:

    The black isn’t balanced. The red picks up the colours of the stars.

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  21. Than (472 comments) says:

    I think a clean silver fern design is still the most preferable option. It would be bold, striking, and leave people in no doubt as to what and who it represents. Much like the Canadian maple leaf.

    Agreed. I like this design, but the stark simplicity of the silver fern on black is better.

    Question – how many options are likely to be presented in the first referendum, and how will they be chosen? Assuming it was to be 5, any speculations on what 5 designs would be included? My guess would be the silver fern, the Tino rangatiratanga flag, the Lockwood design or something close, and two others which I can’t even guess at.

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  22. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    “Why not dispense with the silver fern and put a rugby ball there instead.”

    Because that wouldn’t be representative of all the other sport, business, tourist and military uses of the fern.

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  23. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Than
    I’m pretty sure the PM said the process would involve a reference group coming up with four alternative designs for the first referendum, with the winner from that process being put up against the current flag in a second referendum.

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  24. Liberty (267 comments) says:

    A nice design
    but rid of the black

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  25. David Garrett (7,271 comments) says:

    When is the issue this whole distraction is intended to obscure going to emerge? I actually find it incredible…stick up some flag design on the blog which probably has the most informed commenters in the country and…bingo! Dozens (at least) of people start debating it…Am I the only commenter here who sees this as a total non issue?

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  26. RRM (9,917 comments) says:

    Yes, I like this better than the Red / Fern / Blue version.

    It is still too busy, I think it should have EITHER the southern cross, OR the silver fern, but not both.

    And the fern should win that decision because it is already a defacto national emblem used by countless NZers, the southern cross may be on the old flag but it is just not the same.

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  27. stigie (1,172 comments) says:

    Love that design. it would be my choice.

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  28. rouppe (971 comments) says:

    Still don’t like black on a flag.

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  29. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ David Garrett (4,943 comments) says:
    March 20th, 2014 at 12:05 pm

    I don’t know about a non-issue, but certainly a great distraction. However, I agree in essence. Until we know the results of any referendum, how do we know the country even wants a new flag.

    I would have thought there were more important issues that need sorting, before this one!

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  30. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Than (353 comments) says:
    March 20th, 2014 at 11:33 am

    To present any options in the first referendum would be dishonest and wrong. Until it is decided that the flag needs to be changed, the government advocating and promoting any designs would be influencing the electorate to change the flag.

    That decision should be an entirely separate issue to ‘which one do we want’.

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  31. Fentex (971 comments) says:

    It is still too busy, I think it should have EITHER the southern cross, OR the silver fern, but not both.

    I agree. I see a common problem in peoples designs that they have no real meaning but to soft pedal change which seems kind of namby pamby and too faint hearted to get worked up about.

    I understand why the Silver Fern attracts support because it does have a historical presence that is solely New Zealand’s whereas the Southern Cross is used by many (I don’t really get it’s import myself but plenty of others seem to).

    I don’t like black for a background of a flag, but the Silver Fern seems most at home with it. Personally I think a Koru on richer colours makes more sense

    Am I the only commenter here who sees this as a total non issue?

    Does it matter? It’s an interesting topic that will be thrown into stark relief when the day for change comes (which it will, but probably not this time). No reason we shouldn’t kick the idea around before hand.

    If you’re concerned that it’s a distraction feel free to write and draw peoples attention to what you think it distracts from.

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  32. Fentex (971 comments) says:

    [Choosing a flag]: That decision should be an entirely separate issue to ‘which one do we want’.

    It’s a bit of a Chicken and Egg question; if you get confirmation of a time for change you’re then put in the position of possibly being rushed into choosing a design and getting an uninspired and ultimately poor design.

    Whereas if the question rests on having a desirable alternative on offer then the question has more meaning from the start.

    I imagine any sequence of steps is going to have questionable elements to it from different perspectives sans an undeniable need for change pressed on NZ, and such a thing (like war with the UK or demand by Charles for personal worship and direct authority) is really unlikely.

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  33. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Fentex (576 comments) says:
    March 20th, 2014 at 12:59 pm

    Absolute rubbish. There is no urgent need, nothing negative is going to happen if the process takes two years or five years.

    The fact is that threads like this one demonstrate that changing the flag is a forgone conclusion because National want it, and too bad what the rest of us think.

    Presenting a referendum with say five different choices, one being the existing flag, is confusing.

    This is NOTHING but mind games – divide the vote and conquer – and THAT should not be a game any government plays on something like a National Flag.

    There is no reason at all why the question ‘should we change the flag’ can’t be included in the up and coming election. Then if the decision is ‘yes’ – we then look at designs. But it won’t happen that way, because JK knows he will lose.

    This suggestion is fu**ing with peoples minds – and that is NOT on for something like this. It’s disgusting and an example of how dishonest and unbalanced politics has become in this country. This very thread gives the message that we must pick a new flag design – not do we need to pick one.

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  34. RRM (9,917 comments) says:

    To present any options in the first referendum would be dishonest and wrong. Until it is decided that the flag needs to be changed, the government advocating and promoting any designs would be influencing the electorate to change the flag.

    That decision should be an entirely separate issue to ‘which one do we want’.

    :roll: GOD SAVE US from policy and procedure fetishists.

    Remember Judith it is VERY IMPORTANT when smothering people to death in cotton wool, that the cotton wool is the correct approved type, made from renewable resources, and copies of all its ISO/ASA 9001 approval certificates are in place.

    The way of doing this flag business that Key has suggested is a good one, but NO it doesn’t HAVE to be that way.

    And a preview of what some of the potential alternatives could be, might be helpful to people in deciding whether they like the idea of change or not.

    Heaven forbid that people might be given information to help them decide, huh? Interesting that you think people should be kept in a normalised state of ignorance and it “would be better that way”…

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  35. SGA (1,022 comments) says:

    Judith at 12:41 pm

    That decision should be an entirely separate issue to ‘which one do we want’.

    Tricky – if you asked me whether I wanted to change the NZ flag, then my immediate reaction is to ask “to what?”. I guess I feel the same about the issue of a republic. I wouldn’t vote for the change until I had a reasonable idea of what sort of republic it was going to be (choosing a Head of State, powers of Head of State, role of the treaty, etc.,).

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  36. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Whereas if the question rests on having a desirable alternative on offer then the question has more meaning from the start.

    The only meaning it portrays is that the flag needs to be changed and here are what it should be changed to. ANY suggestion or indication that there is an alternative ready to go is swaying the public – that is NOT on for this. It’s bloody disgusting and on another thread they are talking about Kimdotcom being a megalomaniac, they need to start looking closer to home.

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  37. David Garrett (7,271 comments) says:

    Fentex: I have no idea what the “should we have a new flag, and if so what?” issue is intended to draw attention from…In fact not being a conspiracy theorist – and it now being some weeks since Key floated this – I am inclined to think there IS no “other issue” …so I guess I was being a bit tongue in cheek…

    And here I am, commenting twice on said non issue…so there you go.

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  38. Crusader (314 comments) says:

    Firstly, is there a problem with the present flag? Many say no. I say yes, but only the presence of the UK flag on it. It is a generation since the UK turned its back on the commonwealth and joined the EU. There are many times when we do not want to be associated with the UK foreign policy for example. We are no longer need to prove ourselves the “most loyal in the Empire”. The generations who called Britain “Home” have passed away. We as a country have moved on to a more home-grown identity. Let’s remove the UK flag from the corner of ours.

    There is no other problem with the present flag. So, avoid all the debate over what represents what, different races arguing over various colours and symbols etc, etc, until it ends up a patchwork quilt, or a corporate logo. Follow the Keep it Simple principle. A Southern Cross on a blue background. Recognisable, simple, elegant, uncontroversial and keeping continuity with the old flag. See link below:

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/73660432/Proposed%20NZ%20Flag.jpg

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  39. big bruv (13,884 comments) says:

    “There are many times when we do not want to be associated with the UK foreign policy for example.”

    “We”?, who the hell are you to speak on my behalf?

    Keep the bloody flag as it is.

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  40. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    For the umpteenth time- You guys are kidding yourselves if you think that the all-powerful ‘Iwi’ (who seem to run this country these days) are going to let us have any sort of flag that isn’t a Maori design…

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  41. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    That doesn’t seem to be how the referendum process will run.

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  42. RRM (9,917 comments) says:

    “There are many times when we do not want to be associated with the UK foreign policy for example.”

    ^^^ Given that we don’t get to vote on the people who make UK foreign policy, I think what you said should be amended to the above. ;-)

    “We”?, who the hell are you to speak on my behalf?

    Yawn – Big Bruv, get over yourself dude, you don’t have to derail every minor point someone makes with a trivial complaint over use of the royal “we”.

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  43. RRM (9,917 comments) says:

    For the umpteenth time- You guys are kidding yourselves if you think that the all-powerful ‘Iwi’ (who seem to run this country these days) are going to let us have any sort of flag that isn’t a Maori design…

    Bollocks – in the real world (out of sight of the media) sports heads outnumber disgruntled radical Maoris massively, Any vote is inevitably going to lead to the silver fern.

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  44. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ RRM (8,904 comments) says:
    March 20th, 2014 at 1:28 pm

    You are very optimistic. Try working it out.

    If three designs are presented for choice – the existing, the culturally appropriate, and the one above (for example). Then second option will get not just the Maori vote, but the ‘culturally sensitive’ kiwis among us who will feel that they need to make a statement to support cultural things, regardless of whether they want a flag change or not. The third will be supported by those who don’t want the Maori option, but want change, and the first by those who don’t want change, and aren’t culturally sensitive. There is a good chance that type two will win by numbers. If you add more alternatives to the mix, you simply increase the chance of type two winning.

    Then of course there is the legal challenges and so on … costing us a fortune – all to fix something that isn’t broke, isn’t doing any harm to the country etc.

    And many ‘sports heads’ are Maori, and I have even seen it said elsewhere that they want the fern to be kept as a ‘sports tribute’ not adopted by the Nation… more divides

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  45. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    It’s still a white feather, as BB correctly said of the last one.

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  46. Richard Hurst (855 comments) says:

    No. Again the fern is the problem and putting in black didn’t help at all.

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  47. stephieboy (3,013 comments) says:

    As one commentator noted many people think that by rapping or draping yourself in the national flag that somehow makes you virtuous.

    http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=national+front&client=safari&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=v0kqU5ncOcvTkgW3kIAg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1671&bih=853#q=right+wing+restance&rls=en&tbm=isch&facrc=_&imgdii=d9KMKn6Iufg9iM%3A%3B2WH-dVTwFRpn_M%3Bd9KMKn6Iufg9iM%3A&imgrc=d9KMKn6Iufg9iM%253A%3BrIpdbCDr0ocCiM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fcdn.3news.co.nz%252F3news%252FAM%252F2013%252F3%252F23%252F291503%252Fwhite-marchers.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.3news.co.nz%252FHome%252FTags.aspx%253Ftopic%253DRight%252520Wing%252520Resistance%3B1200%3B800
    Plenty of ratbags have done so in the guise of patriotism.
    Am all for change and the latest like the prior gets a thumbs up from me.

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  48. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    I would just like to raise to fingers

    V

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  49. V (719 comments) says:

    Yes, this looks the best that I’ve seen so far, and I’m not in favour of making a change. How would it look if the fern was a bit smaller? I think the fern is too big, does it need to be so dominant?

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  50. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Sheep Manure

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  51. Dazzaman (1,140 comments) says:

    What’s that rubbish?

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  52. gump (1,647 comments) says:

    I’d really like to see us adopt a white fern on a deep blue background.

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  53. s.russell (1,641 comments) says:

    Who uses the southern cross as a symbol of New Zealand?
    An insurance company.
    ???
    The single most widely used and recognised symbol of NZ is the silver fern. So that has to be the symbol on the flag.
    And as others have said above, good design means you have one symbol, not several competing for attention.

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  54. ben (2,379 comments) says:

    Prefer the red.

    Black will be great until the All Blacks start losing, which isn’t likely any time soon of course, but flags last a long time.

    I suppose you could say the same about red, with Labour in no danger of winning any time soon.

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  55. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    BLACK comes form KIWI Boot polish

    It was developed in Melbourne

    IT IS AUSTRALIAN

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  56. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    s.russell – and the southern cross is used much more than by New Zealand, notably Australia on their flag of course but also on these flags:
    Christmas Island
    Cocos (Keeling) Islands
    Heard and McDonald Islands
    Micronesia
    Papua New Guinea
    Samoa
    Tokelau
    Tuvalu

    Stars are also common on other flags.

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  57. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Here you go LETTUCE LEAVES

    Keep the Union Jack

    Put the Hawk on it holding
    Taiaha and axe

    http://www.nzmr.org/auckland.htm

    TE KAHU MATAARA
    Prepared and Vigilante

    MAKE IT AUTHENTIC
    JUST REMEMBER

    IT IS A BANNER OF WAR

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  58. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    PLA orders discussion of combat readiness

    The People’s Liberation Army (PLA) General Political Department has ordered the army and armed police across the nation to discuss combat readiness and effectiveness, the PLA Daily reported on Tuesday.

    The PLA Daily said the across-the-board discussion aims at instilling the concept of combat readiness, adding that the discussion will be the army’s prime political task this year.

    The PLA General Political Department has required military officers to learn modern military technologies and IT knowledge and to analyze what it takes to win a modern war.

    The discussion will entail weeding out military practices that run counter to the “combat-readiness standard” and learning the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Military Commission (CMC) chairman Xi Jinping’s remarks on national defense and army building, according to the PLA Daily.

    Xi, who leads the country’s reform on national defense and the armed forces, stressed that military reform should be guided by the objective of building a strong army at a key military reform meeting on Saturday.

    With “being able to combat and win battles” as the focus, Xi said at the meeting the reform should target key problems in strengthening combat preparedness and weak links in honing combat effectiveness.

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