General Debate 10 March 2014

March 10th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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78 Responses to “General Debate 10 March 2014”

  1. Lance (2,635 comments) says:

    Best cartoon in a long time. This one is actually funny.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11216758

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  2. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    TVNZ branch of Labour started their election year bullshit by visiting Sth Auckland to try and discredit government showing yet another PI whinging, this time about power prices. We all know they are rising, but that is life. These Labour-loving clowns would be better advised asking why so-called underprivileged members of society still find energy to overbreed, if their budgets are stretched . . . is it because of the extra benefits we are paying them?

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  3. Pete George (23,476 comments) says:

    It’s interesting to compare the Q+A interviews yesterday. Hekia Parata showed she has overcome major difficulties including baffling interviews and Parliamentary answers and now speaks clearly and seems in control of her education portfolio and is doing well.

    In contrast David Cunliffe is really struggling and there are major doubts about what he actually stands for.

    It took Parata a year to get on top of things. Cunliffe has only been leader for six months and has a lot more to get on top of than Parata, but he doesn’t have the luxury of time. His predicament would test the best leader. So far Cunliffe hasn’t proven he is up to it.

    Q+A: Parata and Cunliffe comparison

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  4. twofish (87 comments) says:

    Shane Jones though … has been to the fore on real issues that affect voters and shown up the rest of the Labour caucus for the useless and lazy MPs they are.

    Since the Election, Labour and the Greens carried out a little sabotage, destroying the return National could make on legal asset sales – past the point that the partial sales became law, their actions have wasted public income, actually working against the electorate’s benefit than for it.
    And the Referendum was another bloody waste. Sure, it showed more people against partial asset sales, than voted Labour and Greens added together, meaning the extra sales opponents forewent their sales reservations and still voted National, rather than vote for two parties they saw as useless.

    And since the Election that is what Labour has been – useless. All they have done is change their Leader three times, rather than do one iota of Opposition work, the function for which Parliament currently pays them. And now they are switched to war-footing electioneering mode, all in their own fucking interests, again.

    But that doesn’t amount to much either, as Cunliffe has indicated it may be the 2017 Election he’ll win, not this 2014 one.
    And that’s pretty much OK with those who back him, even on March 15, because no other will volunteer to take his place, just as no one in the real interests of Labour would replace Goff when they should have. And the problem then was the same as now – most of the Labour caucus are old enough to see some come, and some go, but most keep their cushy seats, and that is what they are there for – themselves, not the party, and so not the people.

    14 departurers leave that much room for renewal in National.
    Labour opportunities? One, I think.
    The rest – ever diminishing musical deck-chairs.
    Unaddressed geriatric “bed blocking” – that is what’s fucking Labour.
    No renewal. No evolution. No new ideas.
    Laboursaurous Sempiternalis

    That’s Labour’s problem – now already beyond fucking fixing.

    The rest is just entertainment, like …

    The Cunlist [abbreviated]

    in no particular order, to reflect the general chaos …

    1] Impossible Rena promises
    2] Guilty of donation laundering
    3] CV padding claims
    4] Royal Tour / Election year “convention” lie
    5] Labour candidate man-ban likely illegal
    6] 36 wells drilled EEZ 1999-2008 without environment safety law
    7] Could defy deportation law for Dotcom
    8] “Common man” lives in a ‘do-up’ $2.5 million mansion
    9] Unintended communication of Communications policy to National
    10] Appointing Matt McCarten looses Anderton and Christchurch support
    11] Tweet urging voting for Labour, last Election Day morning – just reminiscing
    12] Parental leave / $60 a week gaffe hides the actual policy start 1 April 2016 anyway
    13] With Greens, sabotage to give only a partial return for partial asset sales
    14] Backed Leader David Shearer by letting him hold two fish up in Parliament
    15] First coup d’état so impetuous made second attempt looked like déjà vu
    16] Letting Clare Curran take the blame for a stuff up by his own office
    17] Failing to disclose an investment trust to the Registrar of Pecuniary Interest on time
    18] Caucus rejuvenation will start after everyone has a turn being Leader, twice.
    19] Government – “It’s either going to change this time, or next time”. Gulp.
    20] Unaddressed geriatric “bed blocking”, against 14 going from National
    21] He didn’t want it to be known he had a friend who could afford a $4m beach property
    22] Labour caucus ABC drips sighted as source of leak
    23] Offering his testicles was being up-front. Pity Pants Down Len Brown won’t follow Cunliffe’s example
    24] Apparently only the ABCs want his testicles
    25] DC – “Taranakians are leaving the province in droves.” Truth – Taranaki has been at the forefront of New Zealand’s economic recovery
    26] “A woman’s place is in the House” hahaha ha see [5]
    27] Slogan – “I’m IN … Labour” see [26], [5]
    28] TVNZ / Labour bullshit

    all drivel, in the face of a party of lazy dinosaurs
    Philogoffullis
    Trevoraptor Mallardocus
    Ruthanasia Dysonodon
    and so on and on …

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  5. Elaycee (4,374 comments) says:

    @igm (8.05am): I also saw that clip… and noted the channel playing in the background was the Cartoon Network. Can’t say we watch it, but isn’t that a Sky Channel (rather than free to air)?

    Doesn’t that say a little about the ‘priorities’ in the household?

    Just saying…..

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  6. OneTrack (3,020 comments) says:

    Pete – but he has been an MP for a long time and should know what he believes in by now.

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  7. Pete George (23,476 comments) says:

    OneTrack – yes he should, and that’s one of his major problems. He seems to be trying to be what he thinks he needs to be to succeed, but it clashes with how he is generally perceived. That’s why Duncan Garner asked if he was a fake, He certainly does seem to be faking it, and that’s a recipe for disaster.

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  8. Left Right and Centre (2,971 comments) says:

    LR&Centrethon number 8.

    42.3KM run 3:29’55” 3am-6:30am March 10 2014. 12+ km/h number two – fuck yeah.

    Butterfly effect: Cycled back to Countdown hours later in day – to teach myself to check receipts every time – charged wrong amount for bulk bin sweets in morning. Noticed woman ahead of me had late night bakery markdowns. Scored me three ‘creme bun’ (sic) six packs $1.90 each. Magic buns that did a great disappearing act. 20kms to keep up in March. Make that 30kms – 10km for each pack – neat and tidy. Get to 20kms – fuck it – it’s going to be a marathon. I hate the number seven anyway – so it lasted all of a month. Had new shoes too and didn’t feel sorry for my feet. The old ones have aftermarket air vents in the soles. Moving parts were getting pissed off with work to rule soon to follow towards the end; by contrast the engine smoothly delivered 12km/h+ output start to finish.

    All that carbohydrate – woof. I still want to smash something up a wee bit – hahahaha (well – after the ten minutes lying on the deck). And all thanks to not checking my receipt etc – love it.

    Kia kaha Kiwibloggers – shot cuz :)

    Downticks are soooo sexy – go for it babe.

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  9. john (46 comments) says:

    Thanks lance that cartoon has got my week off on a happy note!!

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  10. chris (644 comments) says:

    Nice LR&C, very respectable time for an actual event, never mind just going out and running. I can never keep up 5 minute pace beyond about 30-ish km, despite being a comfortable (if even a bit slow) pace up to then.

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  11. flash2846 (273 comments) says:

    Oi! Cunliffe

    Name ONE New Zealander without the ‘RITE’ to have internet access (outside of certain institutions, of course)

    Another empty policy that the stupid Labour faithful will salivate over.

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  12. flipper (3,981 comments) says:

    Elaycee…
    IGM….

    And the TVNZ Labour party was at it again this morning… criticising pre pay electricity rates…and then showing a J Key answer to a different question.

    But you folks are too harsh ion Sky subs or the poor. After all, Charlie “rich prick” Waldegrave has decreed that Sky TV is a fundamental living requirement for “the poor” :-)

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  13. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ flipper (3,182 comments) says:
    March 10th, 2014 at 9:10 am

    So sky TV is a necessity is it? I have to admit I do have it, simply because I enjoy the documentary channels it offers. The ol’ boy loves the sports channels and the teenager – well he loves anything that comes with something he dares to call music (I remember my mother saying similar about my choice of ‘music’).

    However, despite the double standard, it is certainly not a necessity, and should we fall on hard times, it would be the first thing to go.

    We have become a ‘needy’ lot – we are disadvantaged if we don’t have a car less than five years old, don’t have the internet or a cell phone (one on which we can take photos and connect to all sorts of applications), and of course we must have a flat screen TV, because according to WINZ, it is necessary for the ‘children’.

    What no one seems to realise is, the children would be a hell of a lot better off if the family didn’t have a car, and walked a bit more, didn’t have a TV for a babysitter and the parents actually spent time with them, and had the luxury of taking part in proper and decent conversation, instead of ignoring real people, by burying their noses in a bloody cell phone.

    We would all be a lot better off if we actually ‘talked’ a little more to real people in a face to face situation.

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  14. flipper (3,981 comments) says:

    Hi Judith…
    We have had Sky since “day 1″.
    I offered my son a subscription at my cost when he cancelled his to help meet the cost of his daughters’ (2) Prep School fees.

    It is all a matter of choices, priorities.
    It is certainly NOT a necessity… but it is included in the living wage calc done by Charlie W.

    Crazy!
    PS …
    True story: many years ago while a guest of the US State Department, I accompanied Houston Police on a raid on a black family home.
    The beds were mattresses on the floor; seats were cushions; the table was a wooden packing case ….. which had contained a very large color TV, and which now sat in the living room.
    As I say, priorities!

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  15. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Are “we” real Judith?

    The mindless millions, mouth’s agape, watching Kashin family celebrity nonentity tv.

    We (The griff family democratic unit ,circa 1975) banned it .

    It was a richer childhood, sans passive media watching.

    Even today I watch only op tv .

    Many familys use it as a pacifier .It keeps the kids quite . If you like your kids being shallow mindless consumers.

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  16. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    The weekends weather has just been born
    As yet unnamed tropical cyclone 18.

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  17. Ross12 (1,407 comments) says:

    Does Grant Robertson think he is being left behind by Shane Jones ?? I see he is trying to milk the Judith Collins non issue for all it is worth.

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  18. dime (9,855 comments) says:

    “The weekends weather has just been born
    As yet unnamed tropical cyclone 18.”

    well that sucks

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  19. lilman (953 comments) says:

    Judith- Disneyland, same thing.

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  20. bc (1,367 comments) says:

    Pete, Parata gave a controlled interview. However, that doesn’t make it a good interview for the viewer.
    She still has this annoying habit of saying much (long winded answers with lots of jargon) but actually saying little (in terms of answering the question).
    Consider the question she was asked about zoning. It was a yes or no type question – will you get rid of zoning?
    Parata’s first answer “…..waffle, waffle, …., teacher quality, …. , education jargon, …., waffle, waffle”
    Reporter asks again – does that mean you are keeping zoning?
    Parata answers along the lines of this government is focussed on improving teacher quality for all schools.
    OK so that’s a no then to getting rid of zoning. Why didn’t she just say that!

    It’s clear that Parata has had a major image makeover. The agressive, arrogant Hekia is gone.
    She still talks in catchphrases through. She’s dropped the 1 in 5 false statistic. Now the new catchphrase is “teacher quality”. Note the shift from something which is negative (and was discredited) to something which is postive, outcome focussed that no one could argue with.
    There are some well paid PR people that have been working on her that’s for sure!

    Didn’t see the Cunliffe interview to compare. I can’t stand him! 10 minutes of Hekia was enough, never mind having to listen to Cunliffe as well!

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  21. kowtow (8,319 comments) says:

    Tech question

    What’s the square thing attached to the back of a sky tv dish?

    A state house.

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  22. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Q Whats the biggest knob for in a bmw730d?

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  23. wiseowl (869 comments) says:

    Full marks to the Mayors meeting in Wairakei today to have a pow wow about the forced amalgamation of councils in NZ.
    One of the most reprehensible changes to legislation was the alteration to the LGA that will allow undemocratic votes on amalgamation.
    The giant Auckland mess should not be repeated anywhere else in this fine land.

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  24. publicwatchdog (2,516 comments) says:

    NZ Prime Minister John Key’s ‘shonky’ / inconsistent standards on ‘transparency’ when applied to donations received by the National Party, and ‘conflicts of interest’ when applied to National Minister for Justice Judith Collins?

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/sites/default/files/images/zTHE-NATION-John-Key-Interview.pdf

    PS: I’m STILL awaiting acknowledgment of receipt of the following ‘Open Letter /OIA’ request to Prime Minister John Key:

    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

    6 March 2014

    NZ Prime Minister
    John Key

    OPEN LETTER / OIA request – re: the alleged ‘conflict of interest’ of Minister of Justice Judith Collin’s perceived endorsement of Oravida milk.

    Dear Prime Minister,

    Please provide a copy of the advice purportedly provided by the Cabinet Office, upon which you are relying, which substantiates your following reported statement:

    Prime Minister John Key said the Cabinet Office “unequivocally .. said no there’s no breach.”

    Yours sincerely,

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

    ………….

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11214597

    Collins told Oravida its milk was ‘nice’

    By Claire Trevett

    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

    PPS: Want to see an ACTION PLAN that would help set up a legislative framework for genuine ‘transparency’ and democratic accountability in New Zealand?

    Here – on ONE A4 PAGE ……….

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/ANTI-CORRUPTION-WHITE-COLLAR-CRIME-CORPORATE-WELFARE-ACTION-PLAN-Ak-Mayoral-campaign-19-July-2013-2.pdf

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  25. Elaycee (4,374 comments) says:

    @Griffith (10.39am): Q Whats the biggest knob for in a bmw730d?

    To talk to? :D

    Or if the question was serious: In older cars, wasn’t it for their iDrive system??

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  26. wreck1080 (3,883 comments) says:

    The exchange rate know-it-alls say the NZ dollar has already built in an interest rate rise later this week.

    The kiwi dollar is sitting a tad below all time ever record highs on the trade weighted index.

    I’ll be watching with interest ha ha. I’m hoping the dollar will jump as I like records even though the economists are saying it won’t happen.

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  27. wreck1080 (3,883 comments) says:

    New scientist magazine has an article saying NZ is conducting a radical experiment on drug legalization.

    I never heard our media describe it as such.

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  28. Fletch (6,295 comments) says:

    Flashback: Senator Obama pushed bill that helped destroy more than 15,000 TONS of ammunition, 400,000 small arms and 1,000 anti-aircraft missiles in Ukraine

    Obama strikes again – from the past this time.

    As a U.S. senator, Barack Obama won $48 million in federal funding to help Ukraine destroy thousands of tons of guns and ammunition – weapons which are now unavailable to the Ukrainian army as it faces down Russian President Vladimir Putin during his invasion of Crimea.

    * Obama traveled to Ukraine with Sen. Dick Lugar in 2005 just seven months after he became a senator, touring surplus weapons stockpiles

    * Most of the small arms and ammunition were left over when Soviets withdrew from Eastern bloc nations, and later dumped in Ukraine 

    * The two senators secured U.S. funding to help destroy the weapons instead of leaving them intact
    Ukraine exported more than 700,000 small arms in 2004-2007, including 101,000 each to Libya and the UK, and 260,000 to the U.S.

    * But most of the ammunition stockpiles – crucial for keeping a standing army battle-ready – were destroyed

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2573557/Flashback-Senator-Obama-pushed-destruction-15-000-TONS-ammunition-400-000-small-arms-1-000-anti-aircraft-missiles-Ukraine.html

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  29. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Govt limo 730d the big knob in the back seat.
    We get to upgrade knobs this year
    Hobsons choice The basic operating system is flawed. No matter if its red , blue, fancy new yellow or brown it still going to screw us.

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  30. Andrei (2,569 comments) says:

    Ukraine is burning and Obama is playing golf.

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  31. Lance (2,635 comments) says:

    @Andrei
    Well there is fuck all else he can do, and Putin knows it

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  32. stephieboy (2,794 comments) says:

    Andre,

    Obama maybe placing a naval blockade on the Bosporus and enforcing a no fly zone over Syria.?

    Now what could Putin do about that.?

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  33. cha (3,943 comments) says:

    Ukraine is burning and Obama is playing golf.

    So the USS George H.W. Bush and the USS Truxtun, who between them probably have more fire power than the entire Black Sea fleet, are sailing into the region for shit and giggles.

    http://www.c6f.navy.mil/article824centerBush-Arrives-in-Turkey.html#.Uxz5UM7lbAI

    http://www.c6f.navy.mil/article819centerTruxtun-Bosphorus-Strait.html#.Uxz5Ns7lbAI

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  34. Andrei (2,569 comments) says:

    I hope the USS Truxton doesn’t run aground in the Black Sea like the USS Taylor did, a couple of weeks ago – it seems it is still stuck there.

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  35. cha (3,943 comments) says:

    Ukrainian Jews to Russian Federation President Vladimir Putin.

    Unfortunately, we must admit that in recent days stability in our country has been threatened. And this threat is coming from the Russian government, namely – from you personally. It is your policy of inciting separatism and crude pressure placed on Ukraine that threatens us and all Ukrainian people, including those who live in Crimea and the Ukrainian South-East. South-eastern Ukrainians will soon see that for themselves.

    http://www.ukrainebusiness.com.ua/news/11446.html

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  36. stephieboy (2,794 comments) says:

    Andrei, no the frigate was under tow for repairs in Crete.

    Your point.?

    Fletch , very disengebous as per usual. Note this from the articel,

    In August 2005, just seven months after his swearing-in, Obama traveled to Donetsk in Eastern Ukraine with then-Indiana Republican Senator Dick Lugar, touring a conventional weapons site.

    With the full blessing of GWB and a republican controlled house

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  37. Manolo (13,579 comments) says:

    …very disengebous as per usual. Note this from the articel,

    Since when are illiterate teenagers allowed in this respectable blog? :D

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  38. stephieboy (2,794 comments) says:

    Manolo, your the self appointed typo error gestapo here.?

    A spelling error does not , however, match your manic obsession with “The Kenyan” I would say.

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  39. Pete George (23,476 comments) says:

    Politicheck NZ – Major Staff Appointments

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  40. dime (9,855 comments) says:

    True Detective – the final of season 1 is about to screen.

    Incredible show. In the top 5 of all time.

    If you havent been watching – check it out if you get a chance. Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughey are just killing it. The finale should be EPIC.

    Youre welcome.

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  41. kowtow (8,319 comments) says:

    The Kenyan can’t spell either……

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  42. dime (9,855 comments) says:

    kowtow – can you imagine if that was Bush or Palin?

    24/7 blanket coverage.

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  43. cha (3,943 comments) says:

    That insignia the bloke behind’s wearing – Russian National Unity, charming.

    According to #Russian media, this criminal- fascist from Moscow is the new mayor of Donetsk #Ukraine

    https://twitter.com/lachecarlo/statuses/442786167474233346

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/21897306/pro-russian-gubarev-a-symbol-of-east-ukraine-separatism/

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  44. emmess (1,427 comments) says:

    Where is the John Minto, saviour of the Palestinians now?

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26481422

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  45. kowtow (8,319 comments) says:

    Can you imagine if Bush?

    The media party have proven that time and again.Bush was mercilessly portrayed as the lazy golfer Prez ,Obummer,they let it pass as a family holiday.

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  46. cha (3,943 comments) says:

    Bill Guarnere has died.

    “He was without a doubt one of the bravest and best soldiers in all of Easy Company,” said Easy Company historian Jake Powers. “He was one of the best combat leaders not only in his company but also the division. If there was a fight going on with the 1st Platoon or 3rd Platoon, Bill would miraculously show up and leave 2nd Platoon to go help. He would ‘march to the sound of gunfire.’ He had no reservations and was just a fearless man in combat.”

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  47. Fletch (6,295 comments) says:

    Obama calls in Liam Neeson with some help from Putin :)

    http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/obama-ukraine-address-cold-open/2755291

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  48. Nostalgia-NZ (5,119 comments) says:

    20th September is the election date.

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  49. Manolo (13,579 comments) says:

    Isn’t it lovely to have money and be a female follower of the vile Islam, the religion of peace?
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2576600/Prisoners-palace-Saudi-princesses-plead-help-claim-held-king-against-will.html

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  50. Manolo (13,579 comments) says:

    Good Griff has infiltrated the State Department:

    Secretary of State John Kerry has called on American ambassadors around the world to make the fight against climate change a top priority ahead of new UN talks next year.

    In his first department-wide policy guidance statement since taking office a year ago, he told his 70,000 staff: “The environment has been one of the central causes of my life.”

    “Protecting our environment and meeting the challenge of global climate change is a critical mission for me as our country’s top diplomat,” Kerry said in the letter issued on Friday to all 275 US embassies and across the State Department..

    http://michellemalkin.com/2014/03/09/john-kerry-orders-u-s-envoys-to-give-top-priority-to-climate-change/

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  51. emmess (1,427 comments) says:

    No election date thread yet?
    Not like you, DPF

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  52. Bottlerboy (10 comments) says:

    I see Penny not so making a headline in the NBR

    Auckland Council looks to sell home of activist owing $29,000 in rates.
    The article reports that the total owed is the sum of roughly $22,000 in overdue rates and penalties plus a bit over $6,000 in legal costs and interest.

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  53. Rowan (2,113 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/9810792/Murder-trial-jury-retire-to-consider-verdict

    No case against the gang member, yes obviously the prostitute was killed by the mongrel mob, but there is no evidence that Fawcett killed her and there is DNA on her body that is not his which is a clear indication he didn’t, he may have been an accessory, but for a guilty verdict it needs to be BRD that he and noone else killed her and also intended to. She could have been killed by any of the mob members present so ‘reasonable doubt’ wherever you look.

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  54. Elaycee (4,374 comments) says:

    Rowan (5.13pm): …but for a guilty verdict it needs to be BRD that he and noone else killed her…

    Not true. Not at all…..

    If the Jury decides he was party to the action(s) that killed her, he can be found guilty of murder.

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  55. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    So the PM has a ‘meow’ moment and blames Peter’s fickleness for an early election – don’t think that came across as it was meant to – considering history shows Winston only taking two weeks not the five or so suggested.

    I wonder what the real reason is? No doubt we will get the usual level of openness and transparency we have become accustomed to….

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  56. Elaycee (4,374 comments) says:

    Judith / Ginny: …considering history shows Winston only taking two weeks not the five or so suggested.

    For the record, Winston Peters held the NZ electorate to ransom for almost 5 weeks after the 1996 elections – playing the NZ electorate (and party leaders Helen Clark and Jim Bolger) like violins before deciding to support National.

    The vision of him (in front of the mandatory TV cameras) answering calls on a red mobile talking to ‘Helen’ and then cutting her off whilst he took a call on the blue phone from ‘Jim’ should be played again and again before September 20th this year – because if people still vote for him, there is a strong chance he will do the same again…..

    NZ needs Winston Peters like we all need the trots…..

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  57. Pete George (23,476 comments) says:

    If Peters tries to hold out for his Foreign Affairs it could take some time. But it’s all an unknown as to who gets a chance, what they would settle for and how long it would take. But it’s prudent to allow for longer than normal.

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  58. OneTrack (3,020 comments) says:

    It’s pretty clear that Peters won’t go with National.

    Vote Winston, get Metiria, get Hone, get TheCunliffe (unless he has been deposed by then), get Russel, get Grant,… A match made in heaven.

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  59. Pete George (23,476 comments) says:

    Key certainly seems to be distancing himself from Peters, while Cunliffe appears to be talking up his relationship with Peters.

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  60. Rowan (2,113 comments) says:

    Elaycee
    And the proof of that is? No proof, no case, not guilty, as simple as that.

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  61. nasska (11,277 comments) says:

    In the jungle there lived a gorilla and a rhino. The gorilla and the rhino had been best mates for over 5 years. They went to the watering hole together and stuff.
    The next year winter had finished and spring had sprung, and the gorilla was feeling a little randy. After about a month he hadn’t managed to pull and he was feeling more randy. After another month he still hadn’t so he was feeling even more randy.
    One day he was walking through the jungle and there ahead of him was the rhino bent over drinking from the lake. This was too much for the gorilla who saw the rhino’s arse right there in front of him swaying gently from side to as he drank. The gorilla couldn’t contain himself any more and ran straight at the rhino and buggered him senseless for a good half-hour – and all the time the rhino was screaming, “get off me, I’m going to kill you!” but he couldn’t do anything because the gorilla was holding on too tight.
    Eventually the gorilla finished and climbed off. “Right, now I’m going to kill you, you bastard!” the rhino shouted and started running after the gorilla. The gorilla was yelling, “We’ve been best mates for 5 years, we shouldn’t let a little thing like this come between us!” but the rhino wouldn’t have any of it and he was slowly catching up.
    The gorilla ran into a camp where an explorer was sat in a chair reading the newspaper. He ran off to the north but he couldn’t get past the cliffs, so he ran back to the camp. He ran east but he couldn’t get past the river, so he ran back to the camp. He ran west but he couldn’t get through the undergrowth, so he ran back to the camp. Then he wrung the explorer’s neck, grabbed his clothes and newspaper, threw the explorer over the trees, sat down, and started to read.
    The rhino ran into the camp. He ran off to the north, but couldn’t find the gorilla so he ran back into the camp. He ran off to the east, but couldn’t find the gorilla so he ran back into the camp. He ran off to the west, but couldn’t find the gorilla so he ran back into the camp.
    “Excuse me,” he said, “but have you seen a gorilla around?”
    The gorilla, still reading to hide his face asked, “What, the one that buggered a rhino by the watering hole down there?”
    “Oh God! Don’t tell me it’s in the papers already.”

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  62. Elaycee (4,374 comments) says:

    @Rowan: You’re right – the decision rests with the Jury.

    But, not right when you wrote: …but for a guilty verdict it needs to be BRD that he and noone else killed her…

    Because he can definitely be found guilty of murder if the Jury decides he was party to it. Not acting alone, but party to it.

    But you knew that, right? :roll:

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  63. flipper (3,981 comments) says:

    Elaycee….

    On some issues I have no disagreement with your views.

    On matters legal, however, you are most often away with the fairies. It is your type lf view/conclusion that makes us the laughing stock of the International Jurist community. How are we (Crown Law, that is) batting at the Privy Council – our only truly independent judicial body, albeit almost gone ????

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  64. Rowan (2,113 comments) says:

    Elaycee
    The jury needs proof of his involvement, not hypothesis or speculation but evidence, there are a lot of scenarios of what might have happened to the prostitute that night, that may or may not involve Fawcett in some capacity, but no proof of any of it, hence a ‘not guilty’ verdict should occur.

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  65. Elaycee (4,374 comments) says:

    @Flipper: On matters legal, however, you are most often away with the fairies…

    Really? Let’s see if you’re right….

    Had you checked your facts, you would know I was merely repeating what the Judge in the trial told the jurors this morning during his summing up. He stated that the mob prospect in question can be found guilty of murder if the Jury decides he was party to the murder.

    Justice Gendall said there were two possibilities for a guilty verdict based on “party liability”:

    – If the jury found Fawcett assisted or encouraged the main offenders, knowing they were acting with murderous intent; or,

    – If they found Fawcett was part of a “common intention or plan” to cause serious violence to Manning, that it was a “known probable consequence” that the violence would kill her, and that he helped carry it out.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9810280/Mellory-Manning-murder-trial-nears-end

    So, at the risk of repeating myself, the mob prospect can be found guilty of murder – whether you / Rowan like it or not. It’s up to the Jury to decide.

    Sorted.

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  66. Viking2 (11,412 comments) says:

    Job choice
    >
    >
    > Like many young men, the boy doesn’t know what he wants to do, nor does he seem too concerned.
    >
    > One day, while the boy is at school, his father, a preacher, decides to try an experiment and places on his desk four objects – a Bible, a dollar, a bottle of Jack Daniels and a Playboy magazine.
    >
    > ”If he picks up the Bible, he’s going to be a preacher like me and if the dollar, he’s going to be a businessman.
    > But, if he picks up the bottle, he’s going to be a drunkard and, worst of all, if he picks up that magazine, he’s going to be a skirt-chasing bum.”
    >
    > The old man waits. The boy spots the objects on the table. Finally, he picks up the Bible and places it under his arm. He picks up the dollar and drops it into his pocket. Then he uncorks the bottle and takes a big drink while he admires Miss February.
    >
    > ”Lord have mercy,” the old preacher whispers, ”He’s going to be the next mayor of Auckland!”

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  67. nasska (11,277 comments) says:

    Ten out of ten V2. :)

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  68. Nostalgia-NZ (5,119 comments) says:

    Elaycee, Rowan and flipper. He can as Elaycee says be found guilty of being a party to murder without the Jury necessarily given that definition ‘as a party’ because the sentence is the same. For the Jury to find him guilty of the murder they would need to believe that he was involved more deeply than disposing of the body as I think it is claimed. The problem here, is that it’s unlikely that the true picture will ever emerge as I said at the outset of the trial. Fawcett could simply be the ‘fall guy’ or be deeply involved. After the trial we may find out if others have been convicted or charged, as far as I know that has happened yet. Fawcett runs the real risk of being somebody the jury can convict because of being repulsed about the crime, no doubt the Judge carefully explained that to the Jury – however, human nature being what it is, he may be viewed as a mob prospect, a ‘barker’, as they put it, and be found guilty anyway. The Judge will have told the jury not to guess and to put feelings of sympathy or dislike for Fawcett and what he may represent to them (the jury) aside. It would be an interesting transcript to read. Generally, ‘people’ don’t nark on the Mob because of pressure applied to family and elsewhere. I think Fawcett fled to Auckland, that could be for a number of reasons – one being that he was invited to, knowing that ultimately he took the blame with him and away from others.

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  69. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “Fuck the E.U.” ~ Victoria Nuland, US Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs

    In her leaked private conversation with the US ambassador to Kiev, the American female diplomat is heard laying down in imperious tones how a new government in Ukraine should be constituted. Nuland talks about “gluing together” a sovereign country as if it is a mere plaything, and she stipulates which members of the US-backed street rabble in Kiev should or should not be included in any Washington-approved new government in the former Soviet republic.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37599.htm

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  70. Elaycee (4,374 comments) says:

    @Nostalgia: I have no transcript and I’ve only read / heard media reports…. the only reason I commented in the first place was to rebut the suggestion that Fawcett couldn’t be found guilty if he was ‘only’ party to the murder but, as I’d heard Justice Gendall’s summing up on the radio (and knew that wasn’t the case), I responded.

    You’re correct on another point – on the same radio report, I heard Justice Gendall had emphasised to the Jury they had to concentrate on the facts.

    And I expect we’ll soon know their decision….

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  71. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Tropical storm lusi is expected to upgrade to cyclone lusi In 36 hours. Present modling sugests the system obtaining catergery 2 status before decaying into ex tropical cyclone lusi and hitting Auckland in around 5.5 days.

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  72. publicwatchdog (2,516 comments) says:

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/pm-tipped-reveal-election-date-today-ck-153031#comment-648497

    My yet-to-be published comment ….

    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

    This National /ACT Government is VERY vulnerable on matters pertaining to corrupt corporate cronyism, in my considered opinion.

    There will be a LOT more to come on this and related matters – mark my words …………….

    Meanwhile for a ONE page ACTION PLAN to help ensure a genuinely ‘open, transparent and accountable’ New Zealand judiciary, local and central government – try this!

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/ANTI-CORRUPTION-WHITE-COLLAR-CRIME-CORPORATE-WELFARE-ACTION-PLAN-Ak-Mayoral-campaign-19-July-2013-2.pdf

    Which political parties are going to pick up these demands – given that the voting public now arguably have a much better understanding of the need for genuine ‘transparency’, and ‘accountability’ in New Zealand – despite our top ranking on the bogus Transparency International ‘Corruption Perception Index’?

    (Which is simply not worth the paper upon which it is written ?)

    Penny Bright

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  73. publicwatchdog (2,516 comments) says:

    Here you go Kiwibloggers – FYI

    URGENT ‘Open Letter / Privacy Act’ request to Auckland Mayor Len Brown – re: threat from Auckland Council to sell my house.

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz/urgent-open-letter-privacy-act-request-to-auckland-mayor-len-brown-re-threat-from-auckland-council-to-sell-my-house/

    URGENT PRIVACY ACT REQUEST:

    Please provide ALL information which explains the role you, as Auckland Mayor Len Brown had in the decision to send this letter:

    1) Auckland Mayor Len Brown – did you know about it this letter?

    2) Auckland Mayor Len Brown – did you authorise this letter?

    3) Auckland Mayor Len Brown – do you support this letter?

    4) Please provide the information that confirms the role played by the Principal Administrative Officer of Auckland Council, CEO Stephen Town, in the writing, authorising and sending of this letter.

    5) Please provide the information which confirms the role of all/ any members of the Governing Body of Auckland Council, in the writing, authorising and sending of this letter.
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________

    Please be advised that there is now significant and growing public interest in this matter:

    http://content.radionetwork.co.nz/weekondemand/auckland/21145.mp3

    Scroll to 8.00 to hear Leighton Smith reading from and commenting upon my following letter:

    10 March 2014

    Good morning Leighton!

    The first working day after I spoke on your show Leighton – (Friday 28 February 2014) – explaining why I refused to pay my rates – a letter is sent from Auckland Council date 3 March 2014 – threatening to sell my house.

    (Letter attached)

    DESPERATE stuff.

    I have three words to say to Auckland Council:

    “GO TO HELL!”

    This is a politically explosive decision that will NOT have been made at middle management level by the ‘Credit Control Rates Team Leader’ of Auckland Council.

    What role has Auckland Mayor Len Brown had in the decision to send this letter?

    1) Did he know about it?
    2) Did he authorise it?
    3) Does he support it?

    I shall be sending him an ‘Open Letter’ asking these questions later this morning, and requesting under the Privacy Act, ALL information held by ALL/ANY persons relating to this matter.

    It is Auckland Council who are breaking the law by not upholding their statutory duties arising from the Local Government Act 2002 and Public Records Act 2005 for ‘open, transparent and democratically accountable’ local government, and by NOT providing the ‘devilish detail’ of where EXACTLY rates monies are being spent on private sector consultants and contractors.

    I am neither a SHEEP nor a SLAVE.

    They are picking on the WRONG woman …….

    Cheers!
    Penny Bright
    …….

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  74. Sofia (856 comments) says:

    Penny, I am sorry your circumstances have changed, but is this not what you expected to eventually happen?

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  75. RRM (9,832 comments) says:

    ” … NOTICE OF INTENTION TO ENFORCE JUDGMENT:

    Your account with Auckland Council remains in arrears despite our numerous requests for payment. You will recall that we have obtained judgments in the District Court against you for the unpaid rates on the property above, plus legal costs and interest.

    We are writing to inform you of our intention to enforce these judgments by sale of the rating unit. This action is in accordance with Section 67(1) of the Local Government (Rating) Act 2002.

    The total sum to clear your debt is $29,109.88 made up as follows:

    (a) Rates and penalties overdue as at 30.06.13 : $22,242.96
    (b) Legal costs and interest: $6,866.95

    To prevent this action and to avoid further cost (including legal fees and disbursements) please pay the above sum within 10 working days from the date of this letter.

    To discuss payment options, you may contact us on 09 30100101 or by email at rates.collections@aucklandcouncil.govt.nz

    You may want to speak with a lawyer for independent legal advice.

    Yours faithfully
    Joanne Lanigan
    Credit Control Rates Team Leader
    Auckland Council “

    :lol: BAHAHAHAHAHA! That’s classic!

    And you thought you were being SOOO CLEVER refusing to pay your rates as a “principled protest” against whatever it was the voices told you was going on…

    And now they are asking you to pay because you are $29k behind, you think that MUST BE a politically-organised hit by Len Brown??!?!

    Your attitude of “it’s all about MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE” is what’s got you into this mess.

    You idiot.

    Sucks to be you.

    Pay your rates, like all the other home owners do – you know, those people who you pretend you represent and speak for.

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  76. Sidey (249 comments) says:

    A council (finally) exercising its legislative powers to recover a substantial debt owed, effectively to all other ratepayers.

    If only there was a crusader who could demand the council explain why it has let this situation get to this point without taking this action sooner! In the interests of fairness and openness.

    Just stump it up. We can only assume that you are mortgage-free, otherwise each missed payment would have been demanded from the mortgagee/s. In which case you’d have been out long, long ago. Banks are patient but clearly not as patient as this council.

    We look forward to watching this process unfurl in the full public gaze. Finally some real publicity for you. Rejoice!

    You should be so proud of yourself.

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  77. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    A council (finally) exercising its legislative powers to recover a substantial debt owed, effectively to all other ratepayers.

    For there to be a debt there has to be agreement to pay.

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  78. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    You will recall that we have obtained judgments in the District Court against you for the unpaid rates on the property above, plus legal costs and interest.

    Not unless joinder was obtained or there was a service of value which created an obligation.

    District courts only have personal jurisdiction, any written representation that a party of full status is a person constitutes a libel.
    A person can simply be a legal entity of assessment created by the state, these persons have no natural rights and as such have diminished legal status. Joinder between the legal person and the real party in interest can occur by the consent of that party. If joinder does not occur then the process can still continue by service, but if the service makes substantially false representations then the service is defective and the process cannot continue in law.

    We are writing to inform you of our intention to enforce these judgments by sale of the rating unit. This action is in accordance with Section 67(1) of the Local Government (Rating) Act 2002.

    The existence of a real rating until is dependent upon the land (and other real property) in question being within a district:

    Local Government (Rating) Act 2002
    5 Interpretation
    rating unit means a rating unit for the purposes of the Rating Valuations Act 1998

    Rating Valuations Act 1998
    An Act to—

    (a) provide for the Valuer-General to be a statutory officer within Land Information New Zealand; and
    (b) introduce contestability to the rating valuations market by assigning to the Valuer-General a regulatory rather than a participatory role in the preparation of district valuation rolls; and
    (c) repeal the Valuation of Land Act 1951 and generally restate the law relating to the valuation of land for rating purposes

    The total sum to clear your debt is $29,109.88 made up as follows:

    If Penny was not a party to an express agreement to pay rates then no debt exists.

    Debt. A sum of money due by certain and express agreement. A specified sum of money owing to one person from another, including not only obligation of debtor to pay but right of creditor to receive and enforce payment. (Black’s dictionary of law, 5th edition)

    At this point it should be clear that the council is assuming that Penny is a person, that Penny agreed to pay rates, and that the rating unit exists within a district. If any of these conditions are not true and Penny suffers an injury as a result of council action then the council will have committed fraud.

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