General Debate 1 March 2014

March 1st, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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208 Responses to “General Debate 1 March 2014”

  1. flipper (4,067 comments) says:

    Bugger…
    The Hurricanes were pipped

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  2. Chuck Bird (4,884 comments) says:

    This is state sponsored child abuse. Sex education should be after school hours only with the consent of parents.

    Pupils’ sex lesson upsets parents
    DEIDRE MUSSEN

    Explicit sex education at a West Coast primary school has sparked a flurry of complaints from shocked parents with one family pulling their children out in protest.

    Blaketown School trustee Jo-Anne Sim resigned from the board on February 9 in disgust over how the school had handled parents’ concerns about a female teacher’s actions when assisting the delivery of a sexual education programme last November.

    Sim said the teacher taught the class of Year 7 and 8 children, aged 11, 12 and 13, about some graphic sex topics, going far beyond what parents had given consent for.

    On the first day of the 3-day programme, she taught the pupils about body parts, pointing out pleasure points on women and men.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/9777928/Pupils-sex-lesson-upsets-parents

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  3. Keeping Stock (10,341 comments) says:

    Indeed Flipper; still, after the road trip to South Africa, they are one point ahead of the Crusaders on the table after two rounds :D

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  4. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    Whyte discovered this week how shallow, petty and brutal social media, political opponents and main-stream media can be.

    A journalist who gives Jamie Whyte a fair go to explain himself , Hamish Rutherford at Stuff – ACT leader Whyte can’t be grey is a refreshingly honest political view.

    If Whyte sticks to his principles and his openness it could define him as a refreshing addition to our political mix. It may take time to get through to the media (maybe not, Rutherford seems to get it already) and won’t be without risks but I hope Whyte stays true to his words.

    Jamie Whyte an interesting ACT to follow

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  5. Keeping Stock (10,341 comments) says:

    The Dom-Post has an interesting puff piece about the TAB-run betting on the Golden Shears in Masterton. Interestingly though, the story makes no mention of the fact that the TAB bookie Kieran McAnulty is the Labour Party candidate for the Wairarapa electorate. That’s a reasonably significant omission by the Dom-Post.

    It does beg the question though; how is Labour having a TAB bookie amongst its candidates compatible with Labour’s stand against problem gambling? And was Labour’s “outrage” about the Sky City convention centre deal more about politics than principle?

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/03/the-dom-post-forgot-to-mention-something.html

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  6. AM1 (17 comments) says:

    Crisis! The sky is falling!

    /labour mode

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  7. peterwn (3,273 comments) says:

    Keeping Stock – let’s hope Kieran makes a big botch-up of the TAB odds for the Golden Shears. When British bookmakers first took bets on Wimbledon, a major bookie firm put out its odds and those in the know about championship tennis laughted their heads off and cleaned up. Firm lost money but just put it down to a ‘start-up’ cost.

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  8. flipper (4,067 comments) says:

    I suspect that McAnulty is going to play the poverty gap game in the GE campaign… NOT sensible to stay working for the TAB when there is all the claimed problem gambling in the Wairarapa-Central Hawkes Bay.
    If Scott get the NP nomination he may be able to make his case to the uninitiated. But of Joanne Hayes ( a sitting list MP) gets it, he wont have a bolters. Hayes will appeal to the marginal socio-economic group….and the farming sector/.

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  9. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    TVNZ has an article on a national health programme giving patients control over their own death which has been criticised as “euthanasia in disguise”. Ref: http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/new-plan-last-days-life-5854806

    Advance care planning (ACP) is a new concept in New Zealand that grants patients the right to plan their death care, including choosing to decline lifesaving treatment in order to die naturally.

    Cue the interfering Godnutters to condemn any attempts made to provide a way for people to dictate the terms of their own exit from life.

    Also ref: http://www.advancecareplanning.org.nz/

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  10. big bruv (13,901 comments) says:

    Has Matt McCarten paid his tax yet?

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  11. Scott Chris (6,139 comments) says:

    If Whyte sticks to his principles and his openness it could define him as a refreshing addition to our political mix.

    Maybe but he’ll have to negotiate his way around some controversial statements he’s made in the past, such as:

    “Is the lack of Catholic anti-abortion militancy not then strange? If they believe what they claim to, then they are no better than those who turned a blind eye to the Nazi atrocities”

    he had described Christianity as a “mixture of wilful ignorance mixed with an air of assumed moral superiority”

    Good luck with that.

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  12. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    There’s sure to be a lot of dredging up of Whyte’s past writings. He obviously isn’t targeting the same demographic as Colin Craig, and unlike Craig (at times) Whyte’s musings are based on clear principles and logic. I think there’s flaws to this approach at times, politics requires pragmatism, but at least you know where he stands.

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  13. tvb (4,422 comments) says:

    Whyte is a refreshing original thinker and will give some intellectual ballast to the Act Party. But he is not a politician where perception masks reality. Take his stance on incest. Most people’s stomach crawls but Mr Whyte’s support for unrestrained liberalism leads him into areas where a wiser politician would say everything has its limits even liberalism.

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  14. Keeping Stock (10,341 comments) says:

    @ flipper – in my blog-post I noted that McAnulty was stood down from appearances on the Farming Show on behalf of the TAB at the end of January, but he was promoted as being back on yesterday, although I did not listen to the piece. It does highlight the dilemma that aspiring candidates face with the “day jobs” in an election year, but the Dom-Post was remiss in not mentioning the connection IMHO.

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  15. duggledog (1,558 comments) says:

    Question One; John Key to David Cunliffe, Leaders Debate TV1 2014

    ‘David, has your chief of staff paid his UNITE tax bill yet?’

    ‘No’

    Key (To Moderator)

    ‘Have you got anyone else for me to debate? Only I’ve got a country to run…’

    If I were Labour I’d have a whip round and get rid of that tax bill for McCarten, otherwise they’re not even going to get out of the starting blocks.

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  16. Southern Raider (1,830 comments) says:

    Just got a nice letter from Contact stating my power is going up again thanks to Vector.

    Vector is just another socialist organisation that is completely inefficient and exists to restribute our own money rather than focus on delivering the best service for the lowest price.

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  17. duggledog (1,558 comments) says:

    Raider

    Don’t worry. If the children win the election, you’ll be able to get a nice solar panel popped onto your roof. This will save you a grand total of around 100 bucks a year!

    There are a few fish hooks in that plan but let’s not worry about that right now.

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  18. wf (442 comments) says:

    Quote ScottChris @ 0833:

    . . . . . but he’ll have to negotiate his way around some controversial statements he’s made in the past, such as:

    “Is the lack of Catholic anti-abortion militancy not then strange? If they believe what they claim to, then they are no better than those who turned a blind eye to the Nazi atrocities”

    he had described Christianity as a “mixture of wilful ignorance mixed with an air of assumed moral superiority”

    *****

    This sort of statement/quote annoys me intensely. What was the statement that provoked this question? How can anyone have a reasoned intelligent discussion with selective quotes like this?
    I have read quite a bit of Whyte’s work, and enjoy the ideas he puts forward. It’s a shame that people can not read and not distort what is said when they quote.

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  19. kowtow (8,485 comments) says:

    nasska says

    “Cue the Godnutters……”

    Rephrase that to, cue nasska ,who takes any and every opportunity to get in his bigot and bile,”Godnutters” indeed.

    He’s one of the most vocal here complaining about religion derailing GD and yet he constantly brings his prejudice to GD and opens with anti religious sentiments which are invariably gratuitous and un necessary.

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  20. flipper (4,067 comments) says:

    KS….

    Well said. Quite agree.

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  21. Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left (786 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/9777895/Cricket-accident-leads-to-big-bill

    I can’t believe this family is going to get away with not paying. Come on AA, fight this family of arseholes!

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  22. Andrei (2,657 comments) says:

    Meanwhile National has selected their candidate for Invercargill

    A responsible adult by the looks of her – which makes for a refreshing change

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  23. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    wf – most people don’t read political stuff in any depth if at all. And others have a vested interest in deliberately distorting what is said whether they have read it properly or not. That’s the nature of people and politics.

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  24. Southern Raider (1,830 comments) says:

    Looks good Andrei but why the hell has she followed the Labour/Greens “Ms” title

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  25. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    SSSL

    Yep just taking the piss these Forsters.

    using AA’s logic the councils are liable for leaky homes because the are negligent, sometimes these “Spokespersons” should just STFU

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  26. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    kowtow

    ….”anti religious sentiments which are invariably gratuitous and un necessary”….

    Have I missed something? Have the Godwhacks had an epiphany & decided to mind their own businesses rather than force the dictates of their friend in the sky on the rest of us?

    If so I’ll apologise & withdraw.

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  27. Reid (16,467 comments) says:

    http://sorendreier.com/breathtaking-video-footage-from-the-iss/

    Have I missed something?

    You normally do when you comment on religion and those of us who are nasska.

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  28. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    McAnulty is from a hardline unionist background, so he will take a buck from anywhere there is no effort, or intelligence required. He is a real Labour loser.

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  29. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    What’s happened to the Crusaders?

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  30. Manolo (13,775 comments) says:

    The police, the omnipresent state and the wowsers are all here to help:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/9777663/Small-clubs-say-new-laws-on-liquor-hitting-hard

    Waikanae Bridge Club used to pay about $65 a year for a special licence to provide alcohol to members on Tuesday and Friday nights, Christmas Day and three events a year. Now they have to fork out about $680 a year. An annual application or renewal for a manager’s certificate had risen from about $100 to $385.

    Waikanae Bridge Club manager Blair Campbell said the changes for their club, with 150 members aged 45 to 90, were ludicrous.

    “Bridge is a social thing . . . members like a glass of wine at the end of the night. We have no drunkenness or excessive alcohol consumption.

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  31. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    What’s happened to the Crusaders?

    1. They have a coach who has not innovated anything in his tenure.
    2. Dropped Israel Dagg last night, idiot
    3. Dragged Any Ellis, their best player last night, idiot.
    4. McCaw has been a great All Black but time waits for no man.
    5. Tactically they are dire.
    6. They think they fucking invented rugby in Canterbury and to win is a right.

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  32. calendar girl (1,236 comments) says:

    @ PG 8:06 – “If Whyte sticks to his principles and his openness it could define him as a refreshing addition to our political mix. It may take time to get through to the media ………… and won’t be without risks but I hope Whyte stays true to his words.”

    Such generosity of spirit and apparent willingness to consider respectfully the ‘principles’ of political newcomers (and even to applaud their ‘openness’) have not been evident in your approach to Colin Craig.

    There’s a difference, of course. Dr Whyte poses little risk to votes that might be attracted by United Future, the Party for which you stood in 2011.

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  33. flipper (4,067 comments) says:

    LEB….
    Yep, the horsemen, notwithstanding what Justin Marshall says about trying a new approach, appear to be same old same old.
    As KS noted -zip after two games

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  34. Nostalgia-NZ (5,211 comments) says:

    Auckland showed signs that they may have their 2nd row steady, one Tom Donnelly, if he knuckles down to it and exerts himself the pack will prosper. Meanwhile Kaino looks very determined, if he starts off an about 80% of where he left off, and is consistent that pack will have some backbone.

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  35. Colville (2,268 comments) says:

    PEB.
    McCaw is a shadow of his former self.
    Imagine the howls when he is dropped from the AB’s….. !

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  36. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Colville

    he wont be dropped, it is early in the year but he’s a good enough guy to pull the pin if he knows he’s struggling. The problem will be the Society for the Deification of Ritchie McCaw who will see it all as an Auckland plot!!!!!!

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  37. Rowan (2,390 comments) says:

    Still very early in the season to be writing off the crusaders, traditionally they are slow starters, I wouldn’t put all the blame on Blackadder, its very easy to blame the coach but the players need to deliver on the field which they have not been doing as yet. Some of Todds backline selections were very dubious, a back 3 of Slade and the two no names from the wider training group being the biggest blunder IMO

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  38. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    calendar – except that I have given Craig a fair go when justified. But he’s been in politics five years, Whyte has been in politics five minutes. Note that once again it’s not me bringing Craig up.

    And while I now have nothing to do with the party I stood for in 2011 I don’t think Act, CP or UF pose much risk to each other, they will concentrate on different electorates and appeal to different constituencies.

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  39. Manolo (13,775 comments) says:

    Rumours abound: http://dailycaller.com/2014/02/28/rumors-persist-that-hillary-wont-run-because-health-is-worse-than-disclosed/

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  40. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Pete George, stay with Possum Pete Dunne. Dr Jamie Black and Whyte is a libertarian wacko, an anarchist wolf (albeit a tiny and toothless one) in capitalist sheep’s clothing.

    And Pete, what is this “CP” you speak of at 10.34. Surely not the Communist Party?

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  41. Rowan (2,390 comments) says:

    How are the Lions undefeated in two games? From what I have read of the games it looks like they kicked a lot of points through their one dimensional first five. Should they still be considered favourites for the wooden spoon? as I don’t imagine they will keep winning for much longer. If not then who would be the favourite, maybe the Force or the Highlanders.

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  42. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Rowan (1,625 comments) says:
    March 1st, 2014 at 10:33 am

    I agree, the first few games seem to be a settling in time for many teams. Often those that peak early, are often behind at the end of the season. Twas a good game to watch though – I’m looking forward to the rest of the season and as usual will try to attend as many of the semi’s and final if I can – TV has better coverage but I love the live environment.

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  43. Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left (786 comments) says:

    Rowan – watched the Lions last week and they flat out bullied the Stormers. Back line looks sharp. no chance of wooden spoon….the Force will be a clear last this year.

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  44. flipper (4,067 comments) says:

    Judith….
    Hello…
    What news from the tom toms???

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  45. flipper (4,067 comments) says:

    Any one notice that the “new Suid Afrika” approach is to kick penalty goals, with the odd rolling maul try?

    So far there has not been much more than that from the Yaapies…AND the Cheets went down in Melbourne, while Hammet’s mob scored two pretty nice ties v Stormers v (I x maul).

    But early days, as mist seem to agree,

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  46. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    TPPA has become the business of Palmerston North City Council, apart from one opponent, poking their noses into affairs that are not their core function. This group of Lees-Galloway-led drones would be far better employed finding ways to save ratepayers’ money, not following the guidance of yet another purchaser of promotion, ably assisted by his Labour mate, editor of the local paper, Manawatu Standard, now getting along the lines of “The Standard”. These cretins have no conscience when it comes to wasting other people’s money, as they have never earned anything themselves to spend . . . leeches!

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  47. calendar girl (1,236 comments) says:

    “Note that once again it’s not me bringing Craig up.” Even your memory is failing you now, Pete. You brought up Colin Craig at 8:40am today. You didn’t cut him much slack in that comment either.

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  48. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Did you know that Cunliffe is in agreement with Goff in quest to lower the age of consent, along with diluting incest laws . . . bloody interesting!

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  49. Keeping Stock (10,341 comments) says:

    @PEB – it’s not that long since McCaw played the full 80 minutes at Johannesburg is one of the best and most physically demanding test matches in recent seasons. It’s February/March FFS; you wouldn’t expect a racehorse being prepared for the Caulfield or Melbourne Cups to be anywhere near peak fitness this early in the season.

    I agree with your comments about Blackadder though; as honest and hard-working as he was as a player, he lacks the x-factor to be a successful coach in the professional game.

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  50. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    God I’m over hearing how the crusaders are slow starters.

    Guess what? They are slow finishers too!

    2009
    2010
    2011
    2012
    2013
    2014 (let’s be honest).

    It’s a long time not to win. Especially with carter, read, mccaw, franks, whitelock, dagg etc

    How many of last nights team were even around in 2008?

    The only thing that will help them is the June window. The all blacks coaches will get their players firing and it they fluke the finals they will be better for it.

    Blackadder should have gone two years ago.

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  51. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Oh god. It’s started. “Matt Todd is the best seven in the country”. Cantabs are fucking painful.

    Sam cane is the man but is on borrowed time til savea is ready IMHO

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  52. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    cg – yes, I’d forgotten about that one because he wasn’t the topic being discussed. I don’t think what I said was unfair.

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  53. Rowan (2,390 comments) says:

    For all those commentators calling for Blackadder to be dumped, who do you think is a better candidate to coach the crusaders? seriously not a lot of alternatives and the Crusaders have made the semis 5 out of 5 years that he has been in charge, and no other NZ side has got close to this. Yet look at the coaching performances of Jamie Joseph or Mark Hammett, do you think they are the best options that the Highlanders and Hurricanes have. Their onfield performances of their sides are pathetic yet no one is calling for their heads. Ironic?

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  54. publicwatchdog (2,596 comments) says:

    FYI Kiwibloggers

    Letter from NZ Solicitor-General refusing to grant leave for the private prosecution by Graham McCready of Auckland Mayor Len Brown, for alleged bribery and corruption:

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz/nz-solicitor-general-refuses-to-give-leave-for-private-prosecution-vs-mayor-len-brown-for-alleged-bribery-and-corruption/

    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

    ADDITIONAL COMMENTS MADE BY PENNY BRIGHT /LISA PRAGER

    Please note that the NZ Serious Fraud Office did NOT deal with the complaint made by myself and Lisa Prager against Auckland Mayor Len Brown as a ‘bribery and corruption’ complaint, but as a ‘serious and complex fraud’ complaint, although they purport to be the lead agency to whom bribery and corruption complaints should be made:

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz/nz-serious-fraud-office-choose-not-to-re-evaluate-our-bribery-and-corruption-complaint/

    “…
    “In making a decision to commence a Part 1 or Part 2 investigation the Director of the SFO is obliged to be satisfied of the statutory preconditions for the exercise of those powers set out in the Serious Fraud Office Act. ”

    As you are no doubt aware, as General Counsel, the underpinning Serious Fraud Act 1990, makes no mention whatsoever of the words ‘bribery or corruption’, it only covers ‘serious or complex fraud’:

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1990/0051/latest/DLM210990.html#DLM210995

    Part 1
    Detection of serious or complex fraud

    4Exercise of powers under this Part

    5Power to require production of documents

    6Power to obtain search warrant

    Part 2
    Investigation of suspected offences involving serious or complex fraud

    7Exercise of powers under this Part

    8Factors to which Director may have regard

    9Power to require attendance before Director, production of documents, etc

    10Power to obtain search warrant

    11Power to assume from Police the responsibility for investigating certain cases of fraud

    It is the ’Memorandum of Understanding’ between the Police and SFO (which is not based in statute), signed by the former Director of the SFO, Adam Feeley and Police Commissioner Peter Marshall on 29 September 2011, (pd 19) ‘Schedule 6 – Bribery and Corruption’, which sets out how bribery and corruption offences should be handled:

    http://www.sfo.govt.nz/f232,17638/MOU_NZ_Police_and_SFO.pdf

    ” Schedule 6 – Bribery and Corruption

    1. This Schedule outlines the processes for reporting and enforcing corruption and bribery offences. These processes are to be adopted by the SFO and the Police to ensure there is a consistent approach to corruption reporting, investigation and enforcement in New Zealand.

    2. This Schedule has been developed to assist New Zealand’s compliance with the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development Convention on Combating Bribery of Foreign Officials in International Business Transactions, and to support ratification of the United Nations Convention Against Corruption.

    Referral process

    3. All bribery and corruption offences are to be referred to the SFO, who will act as a ‘single window’ for bribery and corruption reports.

    ……………..

    10. Corruption allegations are to be thoroughly investigated by the appropriate law enforcement agency in line with that agency’s policies and procedures. Where the report involves or originates from another government agency, that agency should be represented as much as appropriate.

    11. Specific corruption offences are found in the Crimes Act 1961 and the Secret Commissions Act 1910.

    Communication

    12. The SFO’s point of contact for referrals of bribery and corruption cases is the SFO Liaison Officer. The SFO’s point of contact in regards to the joint assessment of reports is the General Manager Fraud Detection and Intelligence.

    13. Police’s point of contact for bribery and corruption cases is the Assistant Commissioner Investigations and International or his nominee.

    ______________________________________________________________________________________________

    Lisa Prager and myself consider that the NZ Serious Fraud Office has not dealt with our ‘bribery and corruption’ complaint
    ( your reference: C 3592 ) against Auckland Mayor Len Brown and Sky City in the proper way, as outlined in the above-mentioned ‘Memorandum of Understanding between the Police and SFO’.

    Our original complaint (dated 22 November 2013), was dealt with as a ‘serious and complex fraud’ complaint – when it was clearly a ‘bribery and corruption’ complaint.

    It is our considered opinion, that New Zealand urgently needs a genuinely ‘Independent Commission Against Corruption’, tasked with preventing corruption; carrying out anti-corruption educational activity, and detecting and investigating corruption cases.

    In the meantime, it appears that the NZ Serious Fraud Act 1990, needs urgent updating to incorporate the responsibilities for reporting, investigating and enforcing bribery and corruption offences, as outlined in the above-mentioned ‘Memorandum of Understanding between the Police and SFO, Schedule 6 – Bribery and Corruption’.
    ……………….”
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Please be advised that we are considering taking our bribery and corruption complaint against Auckland Mayor Len Brown to Auckland Central Police, given the failure of the NZ Serious Fraud Office to treat it as such, and for the NZ Solicitor-General to subsequently rely on this decision, which we believe is fundamentally flawed.

    We expect justice to be done and be seen to be done, and the ‘rule of law’ to prevail.

    Penny Bright

    …………..

    Lisa Prager
    …………….

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  55. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    On Jamie Whyte: Those above saying the media should “cut him some slack” and that the ideas expressed in his columns from way back when are “interesting and worth discussing” show breathtaking ignorance of how the MSM work in this country – especially with regard to politicians on the right.

    There isn’t a snowballs chance in hell that they will either “cut him some slack” OR use his past columns as interesting topics for discussion! The media agenda is all about ridiculing and damaging candidates on the right by any means, fair or foul, and using ANYTHING against them. That doesnt mean Jamie is doomed; what it does mean is he desparately needs a press sec to: make a call on which journo/organisation he talks to and which he doesnt; make sure every word said is recorded; set the agenda for any discussion with any journo; be on hand to stop him responding to sneaky questions that weren’t agreed as discussion points. Yes, the media will report “Whyte’s press secretary intervened to prevent him responding”…but that is 100 times better than “Whyte said that he stood by his view expressed in a column six years ago that [insert view designed to horrify Joe Average Voter]“

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  56. ShawnLH (5,099 comments) says:

    Naaska,

    stop trying to force your religious beliefs on us. It is rude, and your constantly highjacking threads to push your little religious crusade. Very boring.

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  57. thedavincimode (6,759 comments) says:

    waterwoman

    I think you’ve uncovered a conspiracy that goes to the highest levels of Government.

    You’re going to have your work cut out for you given it goes all the way to the top, so don’t worry about keeping us all in the loop – that would just be an unnecessary distraction for you.

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  58. ShawnLH (5,099 comments) says:

    “6. They think they fucking invented rugby in Canterbury and to win is a right.”

    Wait a minute, you mean neither of those things are true????

    Explain yourself man!!!! ;)

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  59. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Rowan – how bout the guy who won 5 Npc titles?

    I agree with you Blackadder is amazing, he can’t be replaced, don’t advertise, keep playing that awesome footy and extend his contract for 5 more years.

    Hammett is shit too btw

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  60. Fletch (6,390 comments) says:

    The Russians have taken over two airports in Crimea in the Ukraine, though they may be private contractors working for the Russian military –

    Private security contractors working for the Russian military are the unmarked troops who have now seized control over two airports in the Ukrainian province of Crimea, according to informed sources in the region. And those contractors could be setting the stage for ousted President Viktor Yanukovich to come to the breakaway region.

    The new Ukrainian government in Kiev has accused Moscow of “an armed invasion and occupation” in the Crimean cities of Simferopol and Sevastopol, where well-armed and well-organized troops with no markings or identification have taken control of the airports. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told Secretary of State John Kerry over the phone Friday that no Russian military or marines have been deployed outside of the base of the Black Sea Fleet, which is anchored nearby, officials in both governments said.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/28/exclusive-russian-blackwater-takes-over-ukraine-airport.html

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  61. thedavincimode (6,759 comments) says:

    wot KS said. Some people have very short memories. If he played the rest of the Super series with crap form – well OK, but sheesh – one game!

    And to all you Cantabrians – ignore everyone who says Blackadder should go.

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  62. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    The expression “PC gone mad” has certainly become devalued by overuse…but the article in Stuff this morning headed “Prostitute gets $25,000 damages” has got to qualify [the article seems to have disappeared, but it was there earlier this am; will some clever chap please find it and put up a link]

    It seems this 22 year old “sex worker” got asked lots of sex related questions by her boss, and invitations to have sex with him – as apparently happened frequently with other “workers”. He asked about her “genital grooming” and sexual preferences. The woman – at 22 she is certainly no longer a “girl” – apparently became very upset and took a case to the Human Rights Review Tribunal, which which awarded her $25,000 in damages for sexual harrassment. God save us…

    Now I want to be very clear…I absolutely agree that a prostitute has the right to say “No'” to any client she doesn’t wish to do it with, or to any practice she finds distasteful or unacceptable. But $25,000 for what she “endured”? There is nothing in the article to suggest the boss – who sounds like a sleazy bastard – ever actually had sex with her, or tried to force her to have sex with him. His harrassment appears to have been strictly verbal.

    Where exactly did she think she was working? Did she think the topics for discussion in the workplace were flower arranging and who might win the National Netball whatever it is? Am I showing my age here in seeing this as ridiculous?

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  63. Fletch (6,390 comments) says:

    Thirteen giant Ilyushin-76 (NATO codenamed IL-76 Candid) air transports flew into the Crimea Friday night, Feb. 28, and landed some 2,000 fresh Russian troops at a military airfield near Sebastopol.

    DEBKAfile’s military sources report the new intake were members of the Russian Rapid Intervention Force. They arrived as the UN Security Council in New York discussed the Kiev government’s protest against the Russian military invasion of Ukraine. Earlier, airline companies said Crimean airports had been closed to traffic following reports that armed Russian troops in uniform but without insignia had take control of the runways of Crimea’s two main airports at Simferopol and Sevastopol.

    Russia’s step-by-step military takeover of Crimea was tracked by DEBKAfile in earlier reports Friday:

    Russian marines and paratroops took control of Crimea’s main airports at the crack of dawn Friday, Feb. 28. DEBKAfile’s military sources report another group seized the region’s key points – bridges, road hubs and power stations. Western sources referred only to “armed men sympathetic to the Russians,” seizing the airport of the capital, Simferopol – just as they described as “armed men” the Russian paratroops who stormed government and parliament buildings in the city the day before – and hoisted the Russian flag.
    However, all doubt was removed later Friday when Arsen Avakov, Ukraine interior minister in Kiev, accused Russian troops of blockading an airport in what he described as an armed invasion.

    Avakov said on his Facebook account that troops from the Black Sea Fleet stationed in the city were seen outside Belbek airport of Sevastopol, although the inside of the terminal was controlled by Ukrainian troops.
    While stressing that no direct violent confrontations had taken place, Avakov said the matter should be dealt with on a diplomatic level before armed clashes broke out.
    Thursday night, US Secretary of State John Kerry called Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov to propose dialogue for stabilizing the situation in Ukraine. The seizure of Crimean airports the next morning raised the stakes between the two powers. Moscow is making it clear that it won’t give an inch on its refusal to accept the administration rising in Kiev after what it considers to be a coup d’etat against the lawful rule of President Viktor Yanukovych. The West stands by its support for Ukraine’s territorial integrity.

    For now, President Vladimir Putin has not ordered direct action against Kiev – only Crimea, where Russian troops have been deployed to secure the region and its big strategic bases and protect the Russian-speaking majority, a locution which gives Moscow the pretext for acting in the defense of Russian speakers or sympathizers in Ukraine at large.

    http://www.debka.com/article/23718/

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  64. itstricky (1,831 comments) says:

    Garrett, son – It’s like any other workplace.

    What gives the boss a right to do anything other than instruct his “workers” in “working”?

    I would have thought that was obvious.

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  65. Andrei (2,657 comments) says:

    It’s looking very serious Fletch – a real can of worms has been opened by an idiot in the White house

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  66. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    @ Pete George (March 1st, 2014 at 8:06 am)

    “If Whyte sticks to his principles and his openness it could define him as a refreshing addition to our political mix.”

    I happen to believe that MOST politicians stick to their principles. Hone does – and it makes him the ugly individual he is.

    But openness? Um, we’ve had Don Brash. All that man’s “openness” did was snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in 2005, and then kill off the party that was his true political home.

    Rewind to others who stuck to a policy of “openness” and lost:

    Walter Nash (1951) – “We are neither for the wharfies, nor against them”

    Barry Goldwater (1964) “I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!”

    George McGovern (1972) “I make one pledge above all others – to seek and speak the truth with all the resources of mind and spirit I command”

    Jack Marshall (1973) – “The new Labour Government deserves six months to find its feet”

    Ben Couch (1981) – “I support apartheid in South Africa”

    Michael Dukakis (1988) – “I am a liberal”

    The ability to tell the truth, but not the whole truth, but instead couch it in terms that are favourable is a necessary skill for politicians. A PM is chairman on NZ Inc. It is not in OUR interests for them to tell the truth such as

    to China – we despise your lack of democracy, but we still want your money.

    to India – we despise your corruption, but we still want your money.

    to Australia – we despise you, but we still want your money.

    to the USA – we despise your stupidity, but we still want you money.

    to France – we despise your arrogance, but we still want your money.

    To Japan – we despise your inherent racist sense of superiority, but we still want your money

    Unlike you, I have more faith in the common sense of the electorate to work out who are phony, and who are not. If you don’t REALLY trust the electorate, you have little business trying to clean up the conduct of political discourse.

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  67. holysheet (390 comments) says:

    All these teams are looking to who they will meet in the finals and are shit scared of the mighty chiefs again

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  68. Fletch (6,390 comments) says:

    Sarah Palin was mocked in 2008 for saying –

    “After the Russian Army invaded the nation of Georgia, Senator Obama’s reaction was one of indecision and moral equivalence, the kind of response that would only encourage Russia’s Putin to invade Ukraine next.”

    I guess she has the last laugh now.

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  69. ShawnLH (5,099 comments) says:

    “It’s looking very serious Fletch – a real can of worms has been opened by an idiot in the White house”

    Obama’s invading Crimea?

    Nope, that would be the KGB idiot in the Kremlin trying to re-invent the Soviet Union.

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  70. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    Itstricky: Ever known any hookers?

    I have worked in a number of different kinds of workplaces, most of them – especially in my youth – fairly “vigourous” ones…Drillers on an oil rig dont tend to patiently explain what happens if metal is dropped down the hole if someone is handling tools carelessly …it’s more like “Get the fuck off the rotary table with that thing you goddamn horses ass/mother….r” Foremen on construction sites dont tend to say “this pipework is awfully untidy”…they will rather make references to your parentage, and make comparisons to how you neatly insert things in holes in other contexts…It’s called “the real world” son…perhaps you don’t inhabit it?

    Mind you, the experiences I am talking about are 30 years old…perhaps drillers DO now say “I say, it would be awfully inconvenient and cost the company a lot of money if you dropped that wrench down the hole..I wonder if you would be a bit more careful with it?”

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  71. stephieboy (3,088 comments) says:

    Andrei,

    “It’s looking very serious Fletch – a real can of worms has been opened by an idiot in the White house ”

    Please elaborate.?

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  72. calendar girl (1,236 comments) says:

    @ PG 11:16am – “… yes, I’d forgotten about that one because he wasn’t the topic being discussed. I don’t think what I said was unfair.”

    Maybe not, even though you referred to some of Craig’s utterance as lacking clear principles or logic. That’s purely a matter of opinion, and I’m not one to challenge your entitlement to hold and express your own views.

    What can be challenged, though, is any claim to even-handedness in the approach that you adopt. Craig is clearly a political novice, and being regarded widely as such, despite your contrary view. You have been obsessed over recent weeks with criticising him and tagging him with derogatory personal descriptions. That’s your freedom of speech being exercised.

    However, I had understood that your principal purpose for being involved in politics, personally and directly, was to endeavour to raise NZ’s standards of political discourse and behaviour. To my way of thinking you have fallen short of those ideals in your persistent pursuit and (at times) lampooning of Craig. That was why I called you on part of your 8.40am post today – hypocrisy, not your right to criticise. Your professed standards of reason and decency in political commentary are looking rather tarnished at the present time. (Purely my own view, of course, and others will feel differently.)

    [Note of clarification: I am not a Conservative Party supporter, and will not be voting for that Party later in the year.]

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  73. Bad__Cat (140 comments) says:

    “ADDITIONAL COMMENTS MADE BY PENNY BRIGHT /LISA PRAGER”
    Don’t tell me that Penny Not too Bright has RSI from all that typing and now has a typist/secretary?

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  74. Nostalgia-NZ (5,211 comments) says:

    The English cricket team’s ‘winning ways’ continue.

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  75. publicwatchdog (2,596 comments) says:

    “waterwoman

    I think you’ve uncovered a conspiracy that goes to the highest levels of Government.

    You’re going to have your work cut out for you given it goes all the way to the top, so don’t worry about keeping us all in the loop – that would just be an unnecessary distraction for you. ”

    errrr…… doing my best to keep you all informed – that’s why I take the trouble to send this information far and wide?

    You are DEAD right – corrupt ‘conflicts of interest’ go right to the very top of New Zealand.

    There is a LOT more to come on this and related stories……….

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption /anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz/nz-solicitor-general-refuses-to-give-leave-for-private-prosecution-vs-mayor-len-brown-for-alleged-bribery-and-corruption/

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  76. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    When will the convicted blackmailer, fraudster and bankrupt (twice) Graeme McCready, finally be declared a vexatious litigant?

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  77. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    @David Garrett (11.38am): I think this is the article you were referencing:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9777879/Sex-worker-gets-25-000-over-harassment

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  78. publicwatchdog (2,596 comments) says:

    There are – as it were – fuses lit to other sticks of political dynamite that are burning away on this and closely-related matters ….

    I wish people would focus on the herd of mammoth elephants in the room – the increased risks of money-laundering and organised crime arising from the Sky City convention deal?

    Mayor Len Brown was very much Prime Minister John Key’s ‘little helper’ in his support for the Sky City convention centre deal and subsequent legislation, which was a 180 degree ‘U-turn’ from his previous support for a sinking lid policy on pokie machines.

    http://www.oag.govt.nz/2013/skycity/part6.htm#discussions

    “There was a meeting between the Acting Minister and the Mayor of Auckland Council (Mr Len Brown) on 7 April 2011, to seek Mr Brown’s support for the SkyCity convention centre proposal and his agreement to be part of a later joint public announcement ”
    ……….
    “Announcing the Government’s decision

    6.8

    On 12 June 2011, the Government announced that it was negotiating with SkyCity, because its proposal had been selected as the best option for a large (3500 people capacity) international convention centre in Auckland. The announcement was at a media-only event at the offices of the law firm Kensington Swan in Auckland. The Prime Minister, Acting Minister for Economic Development (Hon David Carter), Mayor Brown, and the Chief Executive of SkyCity attended.”

    Sorry folks – but TRUTH is TRUTH and no amount of ‘turd-polishing’ is going to turn this political ‘goat shit into honey’ – as it were…

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

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  79. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    Elaycee: that’s it, thanks very much..I will be genuinely interested to see if I am in or out of sync with popular opinion on this one.

    ATTENTION WANKER COMMENTERS: I repeat, I am NOT suggesting he had the right to have sex with her whether she wished to or not; I am NOT even suggesting he had the right to continually proposition her…I am suggesting that in the vigorous workplace that a brothel is – girls bitching about and stealing from each other and trying to “poach” clients from others – the Tribunal ought to have said “Ms X could and should have told Mr Y to go and f…k himself or a hole in the wall”, and if that didn’t work and she still couldnt stand the harrassment, perhaps she should choose another field of endeavour.

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  80. flipper (4,067 comments) says:

    A new direction. I’ll try to embed this demolition of Greenpeace by co founder Patrick Moore, Ph.D.

    http://video.foxnews.com/v/3267859732001/former-greenpeace-founders-reality-check-for-liberals/#sp=show-clips

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  81. itstricky (1,831 comments) says:

    David Garrett,

    I have worked in a number of different kinds of workplaces, most of them – especially in my youth

    Of course. Within any workplace there is an environment where the “instructing” of workers takes different forms. And I wouldn’t suggest that an oil rigger would complain about his boss telling him to f’off when there are lives and millions of dollars at risk. But the oil rigger’s bosses don’t control their entire lives:

    Mr Montgomery said weekends were his “play time”, when he liked to get stoned and have sex with them in his “special room”
    He said he could do what he liked with the girls, and that “most girls will do anything for me anyway”.
    The decision said Mr Montgomery often yelled at the woman for talking to other sex workers about the New Zealand Prostitutes’ Collective (NZPC).
    He was also unhappy about her sharing a rented house with other sex workers, as he didn’t want them to socialise outside of work.
    …has led him to be overbearing and exploitative, thinking that his sex, size and management role have given him a licence to do as he wishes and to behave as he likes.

    That doesn’t sound like a normal employee/employer relationship to me, regardless of the language used in conveying day-to-day business. You’re right, “PC gone mad” does get used too much.

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  82. itstricky (1,831 comments) says:

    ATTENTION WANKER COMMENTERS: I am NOT suggesting he had the right to have sex with her whether she wished to or not; I am NOT even suggesting he had the right to continually proposition her…I am suggesting that in the vigorous workplace that a brothel is – girls bitching about and stealing from each other and trying to “poach” clients from others – the Tribunal ought to have said “Ms X could and should have told Mr Y to go and f…k himself or a hole in the wall”, and if that didn’t work and she still couldnt stand the harrassment, perhaps she should choose another field of endeavour.

    Seeing as I am the only one who has responded to you, I guess that must be aimed at me. Stay classy.

    Bitching & Stealing? That happens everywhere too.

    What doesn’t usually happen is that your boss tries to control your life and probably has a fair shot at it as well given the operation is “underground” and he has some degree of dirt on your life.

    And, that if she couldn’t stand the harrassment she should choose something else? Well, that’s personal choice but if you just forget what the employment is for two seconds – would you really do that? Your boss makes your life crap and that of others and you just wimper away with your tail between your legs? I wouldn’t suggest you would.

    Personal responsibility is one thing; pride and a sense of what is right is another.

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  83. publicwatchdog (2,596 comments) says:

    Yes – Elaycee – I guess the TRUTH is most ‘vexatious’ for those who support corrupt cover-ups?

    (Meant of course in a caring way ……. :)

    Sorry dear – but I think there are a significant number of New Zealanders (including myself), who give Graham McCready kudos for managing to do that which the Police did not – get ACT MP for Epsom committed to trial for alleged electoral fraud?

    Or perhaps folks such as yourself, don’t believe in the simple concept of ‘giving credit where it’s due’?

    You’re not suffering from the ‘politics of envy’ are you Elaycee?

    SURELY NOT!

    Heaven forbid…. !

    Or maybe ‘consistency in political principle’ just isn’t your strong suit – as it were?

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

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  84. Scott Chris (6,139 comments) says:

    Unlike you, I have more faith in the common sense of the electorate to work out who are phony, and who are not.

    Kimbo, does your trust extend to the 7% of the electorate who voted for Winston First last election? Or those who voted in favour of hitting their kids or against selling assets?

    If you don’t REALLY trust the electorate, you have little business trying to clean up the conduct of political discourse.

    Why do you need to trust the electorate in order to want to clean up the conduct of political discourse? I think politicians should be held to a higher standard of conduct than than us peasants and I sure as hell wouldn’t want that Ancient Greek form of democracy whereby citizens were elected to office by lottery.

    (btw, enjoying your contributions to Kiwiblog of late – raising the general standard of discourse :) )

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  85. hmmokrightitis (1,590 comments) says:

    Was thinking about this and Penny’s self declared “haven’t paid my rates, Im such a rebel” position.

    I call bullshit it on it Ms Batshit. I reckon you have paid your rates, and you lie about it to stay a ‘rebel’ to your “fanbase” (sorry, I lol’d at that). You’re no more a non rate paying rebel than my nana.

    Calling you out Ms BS. As full of shit as your posts Im thinking…

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  86. Scott Chris (6,139 comments) says:

    Garrett, curious to know if you think that, say, raping a prostitute is any less of a crime than that of raping an ordinary citizen.

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  87. Rowan (2,390 comments) says:

    Dime
    If Rob Penney returns to NZ then he should be given a super rugby coaching contract in place of Jamie Joseph or Mark Hammett, he surely couldnt do any worse.

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  88. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    cg – I don’t claim to be evenhanded.

    Craig is clearly a political novice…

    Really? Certainly not relative to Whyte. He stood for the Auckland mayoralty in 2010. He formed his own party and campaigned for an electorate and for the party vote claiming he had a good chance of making far more than 5%. He has continued campaigning and has had numerous media interviews. He has employed assistants and works with a number of other people advising and working in his party.

    When do you think he will graduate from being a novice and when will it be ok to criticise him? After he’s elected or before?

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  89. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    tricky: No, actually, My WANKER COMMENTERS referece in CAPS was not aimed at you…I was attempting – probably vainly – to forestall anyone saying I thought this guy’s behaviour was quite acceptable.

    I notice you don’t respond to my question re whether you have known any hookers. I have known many; anyone who has ever driven cabs at night, and treats them with respect inevitably gets to know them. Their workplaces are not very pleasant places – at least not for “the ladies”. And the ridiculous Prostitution Reform Act has not changed that. Even the foolish Georgina Beyer, who pushed for the law change, says now that she was “somewaht naive” re what the law would achieve….and that from a woman who had been a drugged up street hooker as well as working in brothels and strip joints!

    As the article says, $25k is the very top end of awards in the HRRT or Employment Relations Authority. So what are those organizitions going to award when they get a really awful case of – say – an 18 year old girl who is encouraged to “join the club” and use P to get through shifts; is prevailed upon to actually have sex whenever the boss seeks it, but in circumstances short of rape? Who loses half her money through the “fines” which remain common in the industry?

    You ask what I would do if my life was “made crap” by some employer…well, the comparision is perhaps not a fair one since someone with two degrees has much more of a choice than a 22 year old prostitute…but have a look at the “adult entertainment” section of the paper some time…certain brothels in Auckland are advertising for staff all the time…and girls are quite at liberty to work from a private house (as some always did) or work with a couple of others as a SOOB..provided at least one of them lives on the premises. Which is exactly what a great many now do, which is why the traditional urban brothel is becoming much less common.

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  90. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    “Kimbo, does your trust extend to the 7% of the electorate who voted for Winston First last election? Or those who voted in favour of hitting their kids or against selling assets?”

    You, of course, assume your views on the matter are correct.

    For the record on the matters you raise, I agree with you on the first, am agnostic on the second, and disagree on the third.

    To clarify: I believe in the COLLECTIVE workings of the electorate. Extremists are punished and tempered by the total result. So Labour and National-led Government are essentially moderate, seeking consensus. Issues of slight differences in tax rates, or the percentage of state assets retained or sold may get the partisans impassioned. They are the minority.

    “I think politicians should be held to a higher standard of conduct than than us peasants”

    Why? They come from our ranks, and are reflective of our aspirations, strengths, and weaknesses. We vote for reflections of ourselves, and ultimately bear the responsibility for those we vote for.

    Maybe that is my political bias (moderate right wing, having previously been a Labour party member in my idealistic youth), but I don’t believe anymore that Governments can change human nature. Maybe inspire and guide for a season, and leave a legacy – that later generations either re-invent and apply as their own, or fritter away.

    But whether it is John Key’s “politics of aspiration”, or Obama’s “Hope”, people have to make it their own. Even political Messiah’s like Mandela last only for a season. And he couldn’t keep his marriages together.

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  91. Rowan (2,390 comments) says:

    http://tvnz.co.nz/cricket-news/david-warner-ignites-war-words-5851890

    David I suggest you keep your big mouth shut and that these sorts of comments are very unwise

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  92. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    Penny (15.53pm): Sorry dear……

    [gulp]…

    I need to go for a walk along the beach….

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  93. Gulag1917 (919 comments) says:

    Stop the Nanny State

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  94. Scott Chris (6,139 comments) says:

    I believe in the COLLECTIVE workings of the electorate.

    Fair enough, though a cynic would say that the electorate only believes what it is led to believe. Personally I think that the electorate as a whole tends to think self-interestedly as opposed to rationally which is why I’m fairly happy for them to be manipulated by those who know better. Muahahahahaha.

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  95. Scott Chris (6,139 comments) says:

    You, of course, assume your views on the matter are correct.

    Not really. I see myself as a compassionate liberal as opposed to a hard-nosed liberal of the likes of Jamie Whyte, but I sometimes wonder if, given the opportunity I wouldn’t press a button and wipe out 2/3 of the world’s population – for the good of the planet. Point being compassion isn’t really rational so I don’t trust my compassion.

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  96. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    Personally I think that the electorate as a whole tends to think self-interestedly as opposed to rationally which is why I’m fairly happy for them to be manipulated by those who know better.

    Who says there is a dichotomy between self-interest and rationality?

    Human nature works through self-interest, at least much of the time. As per Adam Smith. And when it is allowed to work, it works best (but not perfectly) for the good of all.

    But does that mean people are manipulated? Not necessarily. Self-interest can include the desire to benefit others. The desire for a “good economy” is so that all will benefit.

    I know businessman who vote left-wing because it will put more money in the pockets of their customers. People take care of their family and wider society because they either instinctively or philosophically agree with Kantian disinterested altrusim. It is an historic dividend of our culture and civilisation.

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  97. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    Scott Chris: Well here’s a first…congratulations for admitting that you “sometimes wonder” if you wouldn’t “press a button and wipe out 2/3 of the world’s population for the good of the planet”. That of course is Green policy, but that party’s leaders don’t usually come out and admit it – at least not in a forum where they might be reported….but is “Scott Chris” (or the reverse) your real name or just a pseud? If the former, then you are very much to be congratulated for your honesty.

    Which 2/3 of the worlds population would you do away with by the way? All or most of those dirty brown people in India perhaps? the teeming millions in China whose leaders harm Gaia immensely with those dirty coal burning power stations? I imagine like a good Green you would chose to pro-rata this mass destruction…perhaps giving Maori a special pass from elimination because they are so…special?

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  98. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    You under estimate the loopiness of the Greens DG…..last I read they were aiming for a max human population of half a billion.

    Sixteen out of seventeen to the gas chambers…..makes Stalin & Pol Pot seem sane by comparison.

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  99. Scott Chris (6,139 comments) says:

    Garrett, it’s more of an exercise in rational thought. If it could be proved (which it never could) that for the good of humanity wiping out 2/3 of its population would give the human species the best chance of long term survival then would I be willing to press the button. I’m saying I possibly would given that proof as it would be the rational utilitarian option.

    As to who would go, I would be first. Don’t know about the rest. Maybe get rid of electrical engineers. Never liked the fuckers.

    Thing is, the planet isn’t really in trouble. If we wiped ourselves out leaving only cockroaches behind, within a few million years they would have diversified to fill all available ecological niches that presently exist. What I’m interested in is preserving what we have left – for sentimental reasons.

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  100. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    Chris Scott/Scott Chris (or whoever): You have just illustrated you have a future in politics should you choose to…the loony Greeny leftie end, but still politics…

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  101. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    “Itstricky: Ever known any hookers?” – dime has :D

    the payout is a joke.

    as an owner of a brothel, youre not really meant to bang your own stock. its a bit of a low rent move.

    its all good when your best friend runs a high end place and she comps you to bang an ex penthouse centrefold though :D the girl still gets her share :D

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  102. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    See David – Scott is taking a philosophical, as opposed to a pragmatic position.

    Like Jamie Whyte :)

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  103. Scott Chris (6,139 comments) says:

    BTW I’m not a ‘Green’ in the political sense. I don’t believe in long, slow economic strangulation.

    Like Jamie Whyte

    Heh, but I only have to survive the blogosphere not the political arena – and I’d never let myself anywhere near the reins of power – I’m not a complete idiot :)

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  104. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    dva

    Its two games and last night was the first time McCaw has every got the hook, it wasn’t a tactical replacement. No doubt his form will improve but what I’m saying is that there are 3 pretty handy No 7’s going around that want his spot and two of them are playing better at the moment and are ten years younger.

    As he slows he’ll get picked up more for joining on the wrong side of mauls which he has got away with for years and the entire rugby world knows this except a portion of NZers ,and this will make him ineffectual. The rugby nutters are pinning all our hopes next year on him and Carter. Carter played no part in 2011 and I believe I have a long black riding on a bet with KS from 2 years ago that McCaw will play a very limited role in the UK next year if one at all.

    My opinion has nothing to do with the last two games but it has everything to do with the fact that he will be 34 years 6 months of age and you can’t turn back the clock. Like I said above he’s a decent man and will know when to pull the pin unlike some in the past who have had to receive the phone call

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  105. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    Chris Scott Chris: So you hoe into polis and ex polis with alacrity, but you would never expose yourself to the rigours of being one yourself…consider my comments about respecting your honesty retracted…

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  106. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    way back in 2009 Dime was saying mccaw will play blindside at the 2014 world cup.. its still on the cards.

    it will suck for my boys kaino & luatua.. but world cup semi’s and finals arent known for being high scoring games..

    if richie is say an 8/10 blindside and my 2 blues boys are 10/10… youd still pick richie right? for the leadership, experience and captaincy.

    i dont know what read was thinking last night. 58/63rd mins turning down easy kicks. there was still a long time to go. the pressure would have started mounting on the blues, momentum may have changed.. but nup, kick for touch urgh.

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  107. Reid (16,467 comments) says:

    You under estimate the loopiness of the Greens DG…..last I read they were aiming for a max human population of half a billion.

    Same number as on the Georgia Guidestones.

    http://prof77.wordpress.com/2011/10/01/carved-in-stone-maintain-humanity-under-500000000-yep-they-want-us-dead/

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  108. Scott Chris (6,139 comments) says:

    So you hoe into polis and ex polis with alacrity

    Only the ones who, like myself, should have excluded themselves from running for public office. Not looking at anyone in particular…

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  109. Reid (16,467 comments) says:

    ones who, like myself, should have excluded themselves from running for public office

    Scott if it wasn’t for David we wouldn’t have 3 strikes. That’s having a far more lasting effect on focusing criminal minds that any other criminal law in the last say, 30 years. That alone is a far greater achievement than most people we’ve never heard of who spend 20 years in the place then retire.

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  110. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    DG – what do you think of three strikes for burglary? Do you know what the maximum sentence is for burglary?

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  111. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    And what the minimum type of offence is that would qualify for a third strike maximum.

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  112. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    PG: Yes, I was rather surprised by Whytes announcement today on 3S and burglary … particularly given his recent comments that “law and order are no longer priorities for ACT”..

    The maximum sentence for burglary is 10 years.

    I think the policy is a good one – burglary disproportionately affects those in poorer communities…PLU have insurance, so aside from the invasion of one’s home, and the feeling of violation of ones space, the crime is more of a nuisance than anything else…for poor people, who dont have insurance, it can be a catastrophe….

    But extending 3S to burglary would have a serious effect on prisoner numbers, given it is one of our most common crimes….I personally would rather see it extended to P manufacture…that is a precursor to untold human misery, and P is frequently a factor in nasty violence..

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  113. stephieboy (3,088 comments) says:

    I see certain posters and Fox news are crowing about a certain Patrick Moore ,former Grreen activist and Greenpeace co founder.The link below reveals something more complex and muddied about Moore’s conversion from Greenpeace to become a noted public relation consultant for various international and other vested business interests .Notably sometime ago for both British Columbia logging interests and APP ( Asia Paper and Pulp ) and clear felling of forests in Sumtra..
    Greenpeace claim he fell out with the movement sometime ago and it related to his increasing autocratic and dominating style.He claims it was because Greenpeace becoming “politicized. ” But by the same token he did the very same thing with his Public Relations Consultancy “Green Spirits “, willingly doing the bidding of a variety of anti environmental interests .Note again the blog was written back in 2010.
    .His submissions before Congess is nothing new nor surprising I bet Fox won’t reveal that fact.!

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2010/dec/02/sumatra-rainforest-destruction-patrick-moore

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  114. thedavincimode (6,759 comments) says:

    eastbay

    I didn’t see the game but understand he had broken his thumb which might explain why he was pulled unless he really was having a shocker. My point simply is that his form on the end of year tour was fine and it is only 3 months ago. Plus as KS said, that game in Jo’burg.

    There are some good ones on the way, but I don’t think it is just about 7 as such. A big part of our game in the last few years has been Reid getting wide and he’s been able to do that because of the way McCaw has played – more like a 6 in many respects. Tossing someone in who looks the goods just as an openside doesn’t necessarily mean that he will be up to the work that McCaw does. The game has changed so much with defensive patterns yet we still hear people talking about “fetchers” and that sort of drivel. That’s one bit but it is no longer the only bit.

    Like you, I think he will pull the pin himself because of the standards he sets. I’m also sceptical about him for next year. Not so much age as such, but the fact that he puts it all on the line and he has played at the top level for 13 or so years and been a standout player throughout. I suspect he doesn’t leap out of bed in the morning like he might have 13 years ago. However, I still think he’s got a better prospect of being there than Carter because he has had a bit of a break and he has a huge motor – phenomenal really and Carter sadly is regularly breaking and having bits fall off.

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  115. labrator (1,850 comments) says:

    I love how Jamie Whyte has been on the front page for a couple of days now. ACT needs as much air time as it can get. Not sure I agree with him pushing 3S. There was an interesting point made be a commentor here that ACT lost some of the left vote when they added law and order to their key tenants. There are people who want less government across the spectrum, throwing law and order in scares some of those votes away.

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  116. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    labrator: Law and order – and extending 3S in particular – attracts a great many more voters than it puts off…Whyte has actually said it very well today: part of a free society is being protected from those who wish you harm…or as I used to say to Sir Roger, a flat tax and school vouchers aren’t much use if you are dead or in a coma…

    SST has about 50,000 members and supporters…that’s a huge voting bloc…if even half of them vote ACT rather than Conservative on McVicar’s endorsment, that makes one helluva difference….

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  117. MT_Tinman (3,186 comments) says:

    dime (8,485 comments) says:
    March 1st, 2014 at 2:30 pm

    i dont know what read was thinking last night. 58/63rd mins turning down easy kicks. there was still a long time to go. the pressure would have started mounting on the blues, momentum may have changed.. but nup, kick for touch urgh.

    He was probably thinking It’s still cricket season. Fuck this!

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  118. Keeping Stock (10,341 comments) says:

    @ davinci/PEB – and don’t forget that game in Jo’burg last year came after his six-month sabbatical, and then an injury interrupted return to rugby. He may be half a yard slower than he was in his prime, but he makes up for that in terms of rat cunning, and simply in his presence on the field. Let’s make a judgment when we see the World Cup-winning loose trio of Read, Kaino and McCaw in action during the Rugby Championship. That will tell us plenty about 2015.

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  119. labrator (1,850 comments) says:

    @DG Right, I hadn’t looked at the numbers behind it and I’m thankful for your legislation, so it’s not a criticism. I thought the point made was interesting, I’d never considered that ACT had appeal to those on the left, particularly a number of Green supporters until it was pointed out by a Green supporter. The abbreviation says it all, consumers and tax payers, but now known for 3S over most other things.

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  120. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    labrator: I didn’t see your comment as a criticism of 3S at all….but I rather winced just now when I read Vance slicing and dicing him on the proposal to extend 3S to burglary…he doesnt know the specifics of how the policy would work; he doesnt know the effect on prisoner numbers…He has got to have answers to those questions pronto…

    I must say I never saw 3S as appealing to Green voters…but I used to get approached frequently by guys – and women – who would say “I’m sorry, I’m a Labour voter, but that law you got passed is just the best thing, and I dont know why our guys opposed it”

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  121. duggledog (1,558 comments) says:

    As of today

    Under MMP

    ACT stands for

    More Maori Prisoners

    ‘Going on a ‘burg’ is hardly seen as committing a crime by those that perform them. As Ralston said on The Nation, there wouldn’t be many people in NZ who haven’t been robbed.

    This is going to see ACT climb in the polls

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  122. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    duggle: Only if Whyte very quickly gets up to speed on the detail of the policy and the impact on prisoner numbers.

    While we were trying to get 3S through, Justice officials tried to bullshit us, claiming that 3S as it eventually passed would increase prisoner numbers by 40%…the real numbers were and are of course a tiny fraction of that….but if you included burglary, I wouldnt be too surprised if prisoner numbers DID increase – at least initially – by that sort of amount.

    That doesnt make it a bad policy – not at all…but it means he has got to get on top of the numbers so when bitches like Vance quiz him on the detail of it he has the answers… or at least SOME answers…

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  123. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    What I cannot understand is how Jamie Whyte hasn’t got his head around the nuts & bolts of the policy he’s promoting. It’s not as if he woke up with a hangover one morning & discovered that he’d lost his tie & become the leader of ACT.

    I want the man & ACT to succeed but if he doesn’t knuckle down & do some homework while getting some decent advice about handling the media the party may as well fold & call it quits now.

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  124. Reid (16,467 comments) says:

    I agree nasska, it’s not rocket science is it – knowing that if you’re a conservative party leader the media will try to twist and dissemble at every opportunity.

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  125. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    Reid

    It’s a given that the bastards will do anything to stop ACT from rising again but Dr Whyte could at least do us the courtesy of making their task as difficult as possible.

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  126. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    Nasska: My thoughts exactly…and it’s particularly puzzling given that just last week he was saying “law and order policies are not now an ACT priority”…in seven days he’s moved from that to promoting extending the coverage of 3S to burgs, which is a very significant policy change…to extend your analogy, it’s like he woke up yesterday and thought “shit, maybe we’d better have a law and order policy after all…I know a good one…”

    Much as I hate to admit it, you can’t blame Vance for wanting some details…every other poli gets asked routinely “what’s this going to cost, and where’s the money for it going to come from?”

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  127. itstricky (1,831 comments) says:

    You ask what I would do if my life was “made crap” by some employer…well, the comparision is perhaps not a fair one since someone with two degrees has much more of a choice than a 22 year old prostitute…but have a look at the “adult entertainment” section of the paper some time…certain brothels in Auckland are advertising for staff all the time…and girls are quite at liberty to work from a private house (as some always did) or work with a couple of others as a SOOB..provided at least one of them lives on the premises. Which is exactly what a great many now do, which is why the traditional urban brothel is becoming much less common.

    So, basically, you’re saying that you would just wimper away with your tail between your legs.

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  128. Reid (16,467 comments) says:

    promoting extending the coverage of 3S to burgs, which is a very significant policy change

    And won’t have public support – I guarantee it – not even amongst ACT voters. And will taint the rest of the policy in the eyes of the rest of the public.

    Whyte and his advisors seems to have looked at the popularity and thought, why not do more of the same and we’ll be even more popular. I hope that’s not what’s behind this but it looks like it to me.

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  129. labrator (1,850 comments) says:

    And won’t have public support – I guarantee it – not even amongst ACT voters. And will taint the rest of the policy in the eyes of the rest of the public.

    That’s how I feel about it. I thought he should’ve left well alone. Pledged for this election that they have nothing to change around law and order and get on with pushing the original core of ACT, fairer taxes spread broader with less loopholes and less government spending. That’s a message with some broad appeal. 3S changes and philosophical opinions on everything should be put to pasture for at least a year.

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  130. Harriet (4,972 comments) says:

    “Cue the Godnutters……”

    “Why is it that more and more politicians, who believe that adults should be playing with poop are being elected to government, I would hardly shake their hands, let alone allow them to kiss my babies and have them educating my children.” —– Bert Weintraub.

    God Bless Bert. :cool:

    Jamie Whyte – Otago University Party. :cool:

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  131. big bruv (13,901 comments) says:

    I note that the poisonous pen of Ms Vance has been tweeting from the ACT conference. It seems that she is more than happy to attack the ACT party while doing all she can to protect her possum headed mate.

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  132. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    itstricky: No, you clown…if I was this woman I would go and set up a SOOB with a couple of like minded colleagues…just like any good free marketeer..

    labrator and Reid: Everyone keeps forgetting that law and order issues have long been “core” ACT policy – while it’s very flattering when it is suggested, they didnt suddenly adopt 3S when I came along…one law for all; zero tolerace policing; 3S – all of them ACT policy since at least 2002…

    Also – as I get rather sick of saying – law and order policies are completely consistent with “classical liberalism”, which holds at its core that no-one may imperil the physical safety or other rights of fellow citizens

    I agree that selling “3S extended to burgs” will be a bit of an ask…but it’s a potential winner if it can be got across coherently…as I have said earlier, burgs affect the poor for more than PLU

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  133. Harriet (4,972 comments) says:

    Good on Andrea Vance – it might now make party leaders denounce the bullshit that Norman sprouted to the media and got away with.

    Afterall, it is Election Year – not Year of the Children. :cool:

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  134. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    BB: surely it is not news to you that Andrea Vance hates ACT?

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  135. duggledog (1,558 comments) says:

    We assume the media still has a major effect on how the public digests policy or any info or even how they vote. While it may do to a reasonable extent, it’s nothing like the old days. So Vance et al will try to crucify Whyte & Craig; so what? They always try to do the same to John Key yet he still sits astride NZ politics the completely undisputed champion

    Reid: ‘promoting extending the coverage of 3S to burgs, which is a very significant policy change

    And won’t have public support – I guarantee it’

    Why?

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  136. Reid (16,467 comments) says:

    but it’s a potential winner if it can be got across coherently…as I have said earlier, burgs affect the poor for more than PLU

    How do you figure it’s a potential winner?

    Thieves are extremely annoying but by comparison with violence they’re not emotive apart from to the tiny subset who’ve recently (last say five years) suffered.

    You might get those who’ve had their house completely trashed. But those who’ve have the telly lifted won’t be with you on making it a 3S, given that people think 3S is a measure best left in reserve for the worst of the worst.

    And it’s dangerous. The media will immediately leap to the US and show most of them inside are for drug possession offences and they’re serving decades for just that. Not to mention ‘the most imprisoned nation’ stats etc. That’s what they’ll do, as you know. And they’ll ask: does NZ really want us to become like that? And 3S is only one of the mix, but it risks overshadowing all the other stuff, because the media know that it’s an easy, lazy, effective hit for them.

    That’s what you’re up against with it.

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  137. Andrei (2,657 comments) says:

    surely it is not news to you that Andrea Vance hates ACT?

    What’s there to love?

    The time when ACT was a fresh voice in politics with something of value to say is long past.

    We had the era of buffoonery followed by the past their use by dates ex National MPs and have now entered the era of academic twittery.

    ACT is a joke party along with the Mcgillicuddy Serious Party and the legalize cannabis people

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  138. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    Reid: OK, here’s my thoughts…As I have said earlier, burgs affect poor people far more than PLU…while it may be a “tiny subset” of PLU who have suffered a burg in the past 5 years, you can bet your ass that subset is about 10 times as big for poor people…

    If ACT is able to communicate to the brown proletariat of South Auckland that it is concerned for them; that it understands the devastation of getting your TV and your kid’s computer which you have saved for stolen, you just might get those people on side

    When I was an MP we managed to get a speaking slot to some Maori Wardens in Mangere…I told them what they already knew: that the people most likely to suffer violence on the street was not middle aged white guys like me, but brown young men followed closely by young brown women…they loved the message…

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  139. Harriet (4,972 comments) says:

    Here’s the type of law and order that get’s discussed at the Prime Ministerial level of Australian politics – which Mr Abbott fully agrees with:

    http://billmuehlenberg.com/2014/02/28/the-systemic-war-against-fathers/

    It’s such a shame that Jamie Whyte supports Liberal social policy – as it makes him look ignorant around the areas of policy budgets, lost productivity to business, and the cost of personal irresponsability being passed onto the taxpayer – things that ACT were once masters of.

    Jamie Whyte is too liberal for the NZ economy. :cool:

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  140. Scott Chris (6,139 comments) says:

    promoting extending the coverage of 3S to burgs, which is a very significant policy change

    Yeah it would make a dumb policy even dumber. Any hope of ACT appealing to my liberal side has gone. Still there’s a lot more votes in ‘getting tough on crime’ than there are in being a principled liberal so not surprising really.

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  141. itstricky (1,831 comments) says:

    itstricky: No, you clown…

    Stay classy, Garrett, son, stay classy.

    if I was this woman I would go and set up a SOOB with a couple of like minded colleagues…just like any good free marketeer..

    The question of what you would do with your life after that point and how you’d make your millions still stands no matter what.

    I’m asking whether you would stick up for yourself. Obviously not.

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  142. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    Andrei: I assume you believe the “era of buffoonery” produced the single biggest law and order reform since capital punishment was repealed in 1961?

    who are the “ex National MP’s” you refer to? As far as I knew there was only one of them…

    And I also assume you will happily vote National, which is – as many pundits have said – basically just a different crew running the ship SS Labour…with the odd flurry from below decks from time to time…

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  143. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    Chris/Scott/Chris and Itstricky: I am sure ACT can manage (or fail) regardless of where you two goobers cast your votes…

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  144. Andrei (2,657 comments) says:

    No David Garrett – I am not voting National, but alas they are the only party who are standing rational adults as candidates.

    Did you see the woman National has nominated to stand for Invercargill?

    Don’t know much about her but I am prepared to bet, on what has been made available about her, everything I own she will not get caught in idle speculations over whether incest should be legal etc – its probably something she has never even thought about because its not something normal everyday people think about……

    The stuff that is on her radar will be the stuff that matters to normal everyday people as they go about their daily lives and not the stuff that occupies the minds of pinhead boffins and the urban elites

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  145. Reid (16,467 comments) says:

    If ACT is able to communicate to the brown proletariat of South Auckland that it is concerned for them…you just might get those people on side

    David if ACT’s going for them in any significant numbers it’s not a single policy they need it’s a package but if Whyte’s announcement is a taster of that then great because it’s a great short circuit for the rich-prick media meme they’ll be running.

    I just hope that is the strategy and it’s not what I inferred above.

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  146. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    Reid: I never said it would be easy…in fact I believe ACT’s single biggest failing – and there are a good number to choose from – is failing to communicate that its vision would in fact disproportionately help the poor rather than the rich…As I have already said, the lives and limbs that 3S will save will largely be those of young brown men and women…middle aged white guys like me dont usually get beaten up (unless the hero known as Nostalgia ever bravely decides to come out here without being tooled up so he can do it from a distance)…Vouchers for education will give the poor a choice that the rich already have…

    Can Whyte articulate that vision for the lower echelons of society? Who the hell knows? It’s a big ask…

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  147. Harriet (4,972 comments) says:

    “…..Says Baskerville, “The principle assault on the family today comes directly from government.”

    …………….He notes that custody “is not the right to parent one’s children; it is the power to prevent someone else from parenting his children and to marshal the penal apparatus — courts, police, and jails — to ensure he stays away from them.” And all this has become a vast, entrenched, and often self-serving, industry:

    “What we are describing here is the divorce industry, a massive and largely hidden governmental and quasi-governmental machine consisting of judges, lawyers, psychologists and psychiatrists, social workers, child protective services, child-support enforcement agents, mediators, counselors, and feminist groups, plus an extensive host of economic interests, such as divorce planners, forensic accountants, real estate appraisers, and many others.

    “These officials and professionals invariably profess to be motivated by concern for the ‘best interest’ of the other people’s children. Yet their services are activated only with the dissolution of families and the removal of parents. Whatever pieties they may proclaim therefore, the hard reality is that they have a concrete interest in encouraging family break-up, and virtually all their power and earnings derive from the harm that divorce inflicts on children. ‘Fights over control of the children,’ reports one former divorce insider, ‘are where most of the billable hours in family court are consumed’.”

    Speaking about the Australian scene, law professor Augusto Zimmermann says this: “Ultimately, no-fault-divorce undermines justice as it rewards irresponsible behaviour and makes a complete mockery of marital vows. Perhaps those who are marrying should consider declaring at their wedding ceremonies, ‘I promise you nothing’, or ‘I will leave you whenever I want’.

    “To stabilise marriage, the Family Law Act must be amended to remove the present incentive of no-fault divorce, which enables a spouse to unilaterally leave a marriage without any fear of losing custody of children and property. This egregious legal anomaly is a standing invitation to irresponsible behaviour.

    “If this urgent reform is not undertaken, the Family Court of Australia will continue to perpetuate injustice by rewarding those spouses responsible for grave marital misconduct and by separating children from their legally blameless parents…..”

    http://billmuehlenberg.com/2014/02/28/the-systemic-war-against-fathers/

    There is a balance between individual liberty and the social good – and it is governments job to ultimately find that balance. – Whyte will be weak on law and order as he’s too liberal minded. :cool:

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  148. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    ….”There is a balance between individual liberty and the social good”….

    And wouldn’t you love to be the one who struck the balance & save the government the trouble. :)

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  149. itstricky (1,831 comments) says:

    “…..Says Baskerville, “The principle assault on the family today comes directly from government.”

    Does he say anything about dogs?

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  150. itstricky (1,831 comments) says:

    Chris/Scott/Chris and Itstricky: I am sure ACT can manage (or fail) regardless of where you two goobers cast your votes…

    Not really anything to do with the topic at hand. But, hey, whatever, I’ve got a life to get on with.

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  151. Reid (16,467 comments) says:

    ACT’s single biggest failing…is failing to communicate that its vision would in fact disproportionately help the poor rather than the rich

    The smart ones know this already David. The issue to me is, ACT have been pitching their communication exclusively at those and simply hoisting the kite then acting surprised when the media whips it away and toys with it (because the media are idiots who don’t get it and never will).

    There’s a few interviews I recall from the Douglas era where he effectively got that point across in the interview but once the media did the summaries it was completely lost in the idiot jetstream.

    Perhaps with TVNZ’s current problems there’s an opportunity to run some rebalancing sessions but I think if ACT really want cut-through they need to get a candidate from the target audience who can front effectively on the media, and if they can get that the media will back off because of his or her skin and let them speak. Thus ironically showing themselves as the real racists but hey, what else could you expect from a bunch of young, moronic left-wing whitey metrosexual LGBTers?

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  152. Harriet (4,972 comments) says:

    “……..….”There is a balance between individual liberty and the social good”….

    And wouldn’t you love to be the one who struck the balance & save the government the trouble………..”

    As I responded to your comment earlier today, yes —- I certainly wouldn’t leave it to the MP’s to get the balance right:

    NasskaHarriet says: March 1st, 2014 at 5:00 pm :cool:

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  153. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    Interesting tweets from DPF on 3 strikes for burglary:

    Of interest, UK Labour Party in 1999 introduced a law requiring mandatory minimum 3 year prison sentence for a third burglary conviction

    So what ACT is promoting is the exact same law passed by a Labour Government in the UK. Not really that radical.

    FYI in 2012:
    2,693 convictions for burglary
    1,055 got a sentence of imprisonment,
    771 comm work,
    347 comm detent,
    280 home detent

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  154. Harriet (4,972 comments) says:

    Nasska#

    Act MP Octavian Whyte.

    That sort of behaviour is why history shows us that Catholic Christian Conservatives now rule Rome – NZ will be next! :cool:

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  155. Manolo (13,775 comments) says:

    Another empty warning from the Kenyan: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_UNITED_STATES_RUSSIA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-02-28-17-18-37

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  156. Reid (16,467 comments) says:

    Excellent infographics.

    http://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-gold-series-the-most-sought-after-metal-on-earth-part-1-of-5

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  157. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    ….”history shows us that Catholic Christian Conservatives now rule Rome”….

    A bloody good place for them too. The good news is that there’ll be squadrons of pigs doing aerobatics over Wellington Harbour before Colin Craig & his fruitloops get near parliament. :)

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  158. RF (1,398 comments) says:

    There are 2 blog sites I never miss reading .. Kiwiblog and Keeping Stock. They keep me sane. Some comments are anti the beliefs of the sites but they are allowed the freedom to express their feelings without some power crazy wanker abusing and banning them. I was interested to see Keeping Stock allowing bsprout from the Green Party to post as a guest. This is good and typical of the generosity of the right. Hell would freeze over before this would be reciprocated by Red Labour or the Communist party in drag the gweens.

    That’s the difference between gentlemen and the other lot.

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  159. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    PG: those are interesting figures…I thought the numbers would be a little higher than that actually…I think you can probably assume that if you had a mandatory prison sentence on 3rd burg, the numbers imprisoned would at least double to 2000 odd, or about a 1/4 of the present prison population…Crime stats are notoriously poor for detail in this country – e.g. the official website on 3S convictions does not classify by offence, but only by Court, which is of little interest to me, and probably is only of interest to sociologists or Mana Party activists who want to claim 3S is all a honkey plot to lock up brown bashers from South Auckland..

    I think one can assume that the 1055 who got locked up for burglary in 2012 would probably have been convicted of their 10th or 20th burg, not their third.

    Of course you have a significant faction in National – led by English and All-they-need-is-love Borrows – who regard prison as a “fiscal and moral failure”, and for them, another prison to accomodate the 2000 extra prisoners this proposal would generate would be anathema. And in all modesty, I can’t see Jamie Whyte being able to persuade the PM that this is a good idea…violence is much more visceral.

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  160. Harriet (4,972 comments) says:

    “………….”history shows us that Catholic Christian Conservatives now rule Rome”….

    A bloody good place for them too. The good news is that there’ll be squadrons of pigs doing aerobatics over Wellington Harbour before Colin Craig & his fruitloops get near parliament…..”

    The bad news is that it is your new ACT Liberal leader Octavian Whyte – who has given thought to the benefits of ‘rooting’ his sister……..probably on a star light night on the Wellington foreshore. :cool:

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  161. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    RF: Quite so Sir…I wonder if ever, in the reflective moments that they surely must have, as all humans do, the Politburo members who run The Standard ever think “Hold on…why do we ban so many people when the guy who runs ‘the sewer’ doesn’t seem to need to…and his blog is far more widely read than ours?” Do ya think that ever happens??

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  162. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    ‏@GraemeEdgeler

    What they’re proposing is to decrease sentence lengths for many recidivist burglars, this will save money!

    Really?

    For some it will of course, and the no-parole bit will add actual length to a lot of others, but in terms of actual sentence length for recidivist burglars, starting points of 4-7 years are about right. That’s before discounts for guilty pleas etc. but burglary (of dwellings) are serious. Especially subsequent burglaries.

    Don’t quite get this.

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  163. Manolo (13,775 comments) says:

    …in the reflective moments that they surely must have, as all humans do, the Politburo members who run The Standard ever think…

    You are far too kind, D.G.

    The effeminate Lynn Prentice is a diva ravaged by hormones, which make even Liberace look tame. She he will continue banning people forever.

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  164. Andrei (2,657 comments) says:

    Lol Manolo – nobody here is interested in Obama’s colossal fuck ups that could lead the world into WW3

    The denizens of GD are provincial sheep happily whiling away their days chatting about looser parties and looser political wannabes.

    Most of them are so utterly braindead that actually they think two men can marry each other – absurd as that proposition maybe.

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  165. OneTrack (3,106 comments) says:

    dg – “every other poli gets asked routinely “what’s this going to cost, and where’s the money for it going to come from?””

    Except the Greens dont get asked.

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  166. RF (1,398 comments) says:

    DG. Whenever I read the standard and see the ravings from the village idiot I have visions of a small fat man with a small appendage. There is no other reason for his “mouse that roared” ravings. In all my years in the Police coming across some really disturbed individuals I can safely say that this is the classic of the small man syndrome who are usually mentally disturbed and a coward.

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  167. David Garrett (7,281 comments) says:

    RF: You don’t surely mean Mr Savage?

    Graeme E: How many burgs would you have had to be convicted for (I mean separate sentencing episodes) to get a starting point of 4-7 years? I suspect it’s a lot more than three…

    Manolo: I always assumed “Lynn Prentice” was a woman…is that not technically correct? Or only technically correct?

    Serious note though…if those “moderators” were Stalinists in Stalin’s time they’d be shooting those who said the wrong things, not just banning them…

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  168. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    What is the difference between a brilliant politician and a stupid politician?

    Brilliance has its limits.

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  169. RF (1,398 comments) says:

    DG. Actually my findings could apply to a number of the authors over on the standard. I think the expression is., if the cap fits.. Wear it.

    They are very unhappy souls over there.

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  170. RF (1,398 comments) says:

    DG. Just had a call from a mate who unfortunately is a true red labour supporter. The Silent T has really fucked up his caucus by bringing in McCarten. The word is…. Give it a couple of weeks and the shit is going to hit the fan…

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  171. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    Andrei – it’s not Obama and the US that are maneuvering troops illegally in another country.

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  172. Reid (16,467 comments) says:

    Andrei – it’s not Obama and the US that are maneuvering troops illegally in another country.

    Pete it’s them what caused it.

    Educate yourself.

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  173. calendar girl (1,236 comments) says:

    @PG 1:13pm. You’re evading the issue, and misrepresenting what I’ve said.

    You can criticise Craig whenever you like; that’s your right of free speech which I uphold expressly. But you are a hypocrite when you claim to be a promotor of higher standards of political debate yet resort, more than once or twice, to name-calling and derogatory personal descriptions when you deal with Craig. And, I suggest, when you deny concentrating on him disproportionately (strangely while insisting he’s got little chance of success at the polls).

    As I’ve indicated, in my view you’re not in a credible position to claim a role in promoting higher NZ standards of political discourse when you yourself offend against the kinds of standards that you advocate.

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  174. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    ” US that are maneuvering troops illegally in another country.”

    It’s only the US that can afford to maneuver troops in another country at the moment! :)

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  175. Reid (16,467 comments) says:

    It’s only the US that can afford to maneuver troops in another country at the moment!

    Well they think they can still afford proxies Johnboy, whether they’re right is another question.

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  176. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    Reid

    I followed the “aangirfan” link you put up on another thread earlier. I’ve read bits & pieces about the child abuse allegations before, especially those concentrated on the Jersey institutions, but if the truth has been revealed on that site then it’s a terrible truth.

    In many cases we are told that when it comes to national security the end justifies the means…..surely nothing can justify the actions & cover ups described.

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  177. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    The Ukraine will be interesting Reid!

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  178. Zapper (1,021 comments) says:

    Pauleastbay

    Tactical replacement? He broke his thumb in the first 3 minutes. Missed 2 covering tackles, but was the only one there, chasing bloody wingers who had a head start. Calm down people, it’s 2 games into Super Rugby, Richie knows when to peak. Last year he was the best player on the park at the Sydney Bledisloe on the back of about 2 super rugby matches.

    No wonder the All Black coaches shake their heads about NZ rugby fans. Thank god they know Richie’s value

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  179. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    I don’t know that the US can afford too… it’s more a question of whether they can afford ‘not to’.

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  180. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    The population of the Ukraine seems to be fairly well divided between east & west even to the extent of the languages. A split may be in their best long term interests.

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  181. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    I hope you are not stalking me since I called you “darling” Judith? :)

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  182. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    You could talk to nasska instead Judith. He is a very erudite chap and likes a bit I have heard! :)

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  183. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    I only like sheep! :)

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  184. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    We haven’t had a love interest on this blog since the great Johnboy/Waterwoman split of a year or so back Judith. Mind you there was that fling with Yvette…..before that was Flossie.

    Actually when you get down to it JB is just a slut. :)

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  185. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Ewe’s like a Ram that put’s it about a bit nasska…… So do farmers come to think of it! :)

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  186. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    I miss Yvette though!

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  187. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Johnboy (12,932 comments) says:
    March 1st, 2014 at 9:15 pm
    I hope you are not stalking me since I called you “darling” Judith?

    Dear John, if I stalked everyone that called me darling … I wouldn’t have time to waste on here… sorry, but whilst ‘he who thinks he’s obeyed’ is watching the V8’s, I’m cruising around on the net, finding people to annoy … :-)

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  188. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    If my rams don’t put it about close on fifty times a season they tend to follow a new career inside sausage casings JB. :)

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  189. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ nasska (9,052 comments) says:
    March 1st, 2014 at 9:19 pm

    It appears you may be right … I’m just really glad I didn’t decide on the name ‘Baaaabaaaara’.

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  190. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    I never realised you were married to a dumb redneck till now Judith.

    Sorry if I have raised your expectations of what might have been darling! :)

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  191. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    cg – why do you concentrate on me disproportionately? Others talk about Craig, say far worse than me about him, but you seem to be single-minded. I comment on many things other than Craig and certainly don’t concentrate on him – I can’t remember when I last blogged on him.

    [Note of clarification: I am not a Conservative Party supporter, and will not be voting for that Party later in the year.]

    That’s curious, another who claims to have no interest in the CP but seems to hardly comment on anything other than Craig. You have an obvious focus in Craig and in me. There seems to be a pattern.

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  192. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy (12,935 comments) says:
    March 1st, 2014 at 9:28 pm

    Watching V8’s makes one a redneck? Didn’t know that … he’s actually not talking to me … he came home and asked what was for dinner… as everyone else is out I suggested we just have toasted sandwiches, to which he said “fark I’ve been working all day” … so I replied “well don’t let me get in the way – keep working – make your own blardy dinner’.

    Interested to know how watching the V8’s makes one a redneck though – you do know I drive a V8 holden don’t you? Does that make me a redneck?

    PS not worried about what might have been … I’m still lost in my ‘what might have been’ dream every time I look at SBW’s butt! :-)

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  193. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Jesus Jamie Whyte’s a seriously hard man:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11212225

    I’d give the pieces of shit thirty lashes on their bare arse’s in the town square for the first offence and sell any of their useful body parts for the next one! :)

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  194. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Whatever Judith. Glad to see you are happy…. don’t bother me again! :)

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  195. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Fuck minus is quick tonight. Doe’s he stalk you as well Judith as a sort of protector?

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  196. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    Seeing as you brought these things up:

    even though you referred to some of Craig’s utterance as lacking clear principles or logic.

    A lot of people suggest similar about Craig. He has really said some whacky things.

    You have been obsessed over recent weeks with criticising him and tagging him with derogatory personal descriptions.

    I haven’t been obsessed with him, unlike you with him and me. “Tagging him with derogatory personal descriptions” is a curious accusation. You’ll have to come up with a number of those to support that claim.

    To my way of thinking you have fallen short of those ideals in your persistent pursuit and (at times) lampooning of Craig.

    Craig lampoons himself, many people lampoon Craig. He has brought that on himself. I’ve heard a lot worse said about him that I’ve ever said.

    “Persistent pursuit” is ridiculous. Except that it’s what you seem to be doing.

    If you feel so strongly about persistent pursuits and attempts at lampooning and were in any way consistent you would be commenting on the many other examples of it here, many far worse than directed at Craig.

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  197. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    No need to lampoon Craig when he can harpoon himself really! :)

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  198. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Johnboy (12,939 comments) says:
    March 1st, 2014 at 9:42 pm
    Fuck minus is quick tonight. Doe’s he stalk you as well Judith as a sort of protector?

    You tell me not to bother you again, and then ask me a question… you’re not Irish are you? :-)

    Don’t get touchy about the ticks … think of it as a community service, its keeping someone busy and off the streets

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  199. valeriusterminus (243 comments) says:

    Autonomous region Crimea is to Russia what Grenada was to the US

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  200. Zapper (1,021 comments) says:

    Judith, you have a faeces fantasy? Crikey

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  201. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Zapper (791 comments) says:
    March 1st, 2014 at 10:00 pm

    Do I? Wow, thanks for letting me know – I’d hate to let that one go unpracticed. :-)

    Maybe you were meaning SBW’s butt…… in black shorts, not bare!

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  202. calendar girl (1,236 comments) says:

    Have a good night, Pete, content in your self-delusions.

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  203. Colville (2,268 comments) says:

    Judith.
    Noddy books?
    wanna sell them?

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  204. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Colville (1,672 comments) says:
    March 1st, 2014 at 10:25 pm

    Sorry Colville – they have too much sentimental value but if times ever get hard and I consider selling them, I’ll leave you message.

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  205. Colville (2,268 comments) says:

    Pity.
    Da Missus collects such books, she has a room full of such thngs.
    I would have been in her good books for ages having sourced a couple for her. :-)

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  206. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Colville

    She would loves these, I have been told that because they still have their dust covers which proves something (not sure what), and are undated, it means they were printed before 1958 making them definitely first edition. My Grandfather bought them back from overseas – his sister knew the author and got them signed for him to bring back for his grandchildren. He used to read them to me when I was a little girl, and because I was the only one that loved them as a child, he left the to me. Far too special to part with.

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  207. Nukuleka (327 comments) says:

    I note that sad wee nasska continues ranting and raving and spewing his/ her message of hate and bile. A sad wee person leading a sad wee life.

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  208. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    cg – through the day you made vague accusations without providing anything to back up your claims. And when some curious things are pointed about might be involved in “persistent pursuit” you back off without comment apart from an attempt at a “derogatory personal description”, after a previous accusation – “you are a hypocrite”. Who is?

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