General Debate 8 March 2014

March 8th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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98 Responses to “General Debate 8 March 2014”

  1. Viking2 (11,580 comments) says:

    2013: Several new female condoms are in development. These include the Woman’s Condom, with a dissolving capsule applicator; Cupid, with a ring-shaped foam sponge for stability; and the Origami Condom, which folds out like an accordion when pushed into the vagina.

    Made of silicon, the Origami is reusable and can be washed in a dishwasher.

    So its out to dinner, frolic in the maze and clean the condom in the dish washer.

    such fun.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/love-sex/9804818/Growing-call-for-condoms-for-the-women

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  2. Keeping Stock (10,443 comments) says:

    Wanted; one Head Coach

    Anything considered.

    Please apply in writing to The Hurricanes.

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  3. Andrei (2,668 comments) says:

    A blast from the past – or I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning

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  4. Akaroa (591 comments) says:

    Our local self-flagellation, pain-for-fun, group excelled itself this weekend!

    The premier ‘hurt-me-please’ attraction was watching eighty minutes of Hurricanes Rugby.

    The real afficienadoes – those who live for more and more self inflicted pain – got to watch a full-length replay too!!

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  5. All_on_Red (1,650 comments) says:

    Nice essay on Ukraine from Walter Mead
    http://www.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2014/03/06/russia-blows-past-obamas-off-ramp/

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  6. kowtow (8,784 comments) says:

    Celebrate and embrace multiculturalism,it’s so enriching for the boring host society.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2575759/Revealed-Islamist-plot-dubbed-Trojan-Horse-string-schools-Birmingham-self-styled-Jihad.html

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  7. hj (7,067 comments) says:

    Case Studies in NY Property Development
    http://vimeo.com/user11435399

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  8. Scott Chris (6,177 comments) says:

    Too many foreigners foreign students.

    Nice dog-whistle Shane Jones.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11216048

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  9. Scott Chris (6,177 comments) says:

    self-flagellation

    There is no other kind of flagellation than self inflicted flagellation. The ‘self’ part is superfluous.

    tautology

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  10. hj (7,067 comments) says:

    You get a student loan to study your favourite unmarketable subject; you go overseas, see the Grand Canyon, have two kids: oops can’t pay back student loan and will be apprehended at Airport. It’s all so socially unjust!!
    http://blog.greens.org.nz/2014/03/07/cracking-down-on-graduates/

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  11. Keeping Stock (10,443 comments) says:

    @ Scott Chris – I’ve suggested for some time that Shane Jones is the natural successor to Winston Peters as leader of NZ First. The women, gays and unionists in Labour will never embrace Jones as a leader, so why not?

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  12. nasska (11,827 comments) says:

    Scott Chris

    Don’t expect Shane Jones or any other parliamentarian representing the Maori elite to enthuse over foreign students or immigration from SE Asia. The more the population is diluted by Chinese or Indian immigrants the greater the chances of a derailment of the gravy train & less guarantee of the ‘Maorification’ crap taking hold.

    The mad matriarch of the North has woken up to this. Even she realises that the golden days of endless treaty settlements may be passing.

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  13. hj (7,067 comments) says:

    These days a some of subjects and departments at university are subversive (Maori Studies, Cross-Cultural Studies)?
    http://blog.greens.org.nz/2014/03/07/cracking-down-on-graduates/

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  14. lilman (968 comments) says:

    Get real,every student is given plenty of opportunity to repay their debt,give me a break.
    Interest should be charged and if they want to travel oversea then pay your debts and relax,I have too,and I owed more than most and paid it back with interest.
    Absolute arses,why we even tolerate crap is a fault of all of us for allowing it.

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  15. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ hj (5,554 comments) says:
    March 8th, 2014 at 8:32 am

    I wonder how many young people, when they begin tertiary study know exactly what path their life will take – I certainly didn’t at 20?

    The problem as I see it is not with the person whose life eventually takes them away from our shores (although I accept that all borrowed money should be repaid), but with the loan scheme itself.

    I believe tertiary education to a certain level should be free – government funded providing the student graduates and works a minimum of three years in this country – a sort of contract to keep skills here at least to return some of what is gained. I also believe that anyone that receives support via student allowance to assist with their living whilst studying should be on similar contract. They take from the country, they must give back.

    And academic study must be exactly that – academic. Vocational studies – mechanics etc are not academic. The two have become blurred with various technical institutes jumping on the gravy train – that needs to stop and should prevent ‘degrees in origami’. There is a need for both practical and academic skills – but lets accept just as the type of people that study them, the skill base is very different.

    We have a huge problem with generational hopelessness in this country – both in generational crime and welfare recipients. Once born into a particular ‘class’ (for want of a better word), it is very difficult to rise above that level.

    In order to stop it we have to increase the ability for upward social mobility – unfortunately governments of the last twenty years have done the opposite and continue to gear policy towards locking a person into the class they are born in. That system has to be blown apart – no one wins when we have families with generations of no-hopers.

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  16. OneTrack (3,237 comments) says:

    scott chris – “Nice dog-whistle Shane Jones.”

    Nah, I dont see racism (not the sort you are implying anyway). I see a logic failure. He seems to be implying that there are a fixed number of places at uni, and those international students are taking some from “his” people. He doesnt seem to realise that the international students allow the university to take many more students overall. A fixed size pie mindset.

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  17. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Adding to what I said above.

    It was suggested to me recently that we should bring back in a secondary qualification similar to the UE of old. If a student works hard at school and achieves at that level, then they qualify for three years of tertiary education – provided they continue to achieve and are contracted as mentioned above.

    I like the suggestion – it gives a child a reason to work at secondary level – and to continue achieving – rewarding achievement can’t be bad.

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  18. OneTrack (3,237 comments) says:

    Judith

    Nope. The problem is that that far too many people go to university because “everybody else does” and to gain psudeo qualifications that are useless in the real world that will feed and clothe their families. Then they get the student loan, because they can, and nobody asks them the question up front, how are you going to pay it back.

    Its great someone being interested in Art History but I dont get why the taxpayers of the country, the people working hard to feed their own families, should give people free reign to follow fantasies. Engineering, science, etc., yep, you could convince me on those. But there are far too many of the “other sort” to do away with the loan model.

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  19. Reid (16,640 comments) says:

    governments of the last twenty years have done the opposite and continue to gear policy towards locking a person into the class they are born in. That system has to be blown apart – no one wins when we have families with generations of no-hopers.

    Agree Judith. As I’ve said many times I personally believe the only possible circuit-breaker to this cycle is the parents (and grandparents). They’re the ones who pass on expectations and mores to their children – the only ones. Teachers don’t, they come a very very distant second. And parents and grandparents do this by and large subconsciously, because the values you hold about yourself and the world reside there and drive the way you express yourself and the way you behave and the children pick up on your cues and internalise those values and make them their own. This is why the children of most professionals end up going to university and it’s why most children of thieves become criminals and everything in between.

    Changing those subconsciously held values is what we need programs in, and these programs have to be coercive because most people think their values are just fine, thanks very much. And even when they produce negative outcomes, they blame external factors for those outcomes and not themselves, which is where the real and only cause lies.

    Coercive doesn’t have to mean nasty, vicious and angry. It can mean: this is simply the way it’s going to be and we don’t particularly care if you don’t like, this is what’s going to happen whether you like it or not. It can also mean it’s not sold like that but rather it’s sold on the basis of explaining the above so that people can see why it is that they have lousy outcomes and future prospects and why would anyone at all wish that upon their children and grandchildren?

    Why at least some politicians haven’t already suggested this I have no idea. Because it’s not rocket science and it’s the key and the only key to changing the negative outcomes to which you allude. And as I just pointed out, a modicum of thought could package it in a way that it becomes acceptable.

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  20. Colville (2,300 comments) says:

    @ Scott Chris – I’ve suggested for some time that Shane Jones is the natural successor to Winston Peters as leader of NZ First. The women, gays and unionists in Labour will never embrace Jones as a leader, so why not?

    Yip. Jones just needs to lose the primary to Robertson in early ’15 and he will see the writing is on the wall.
    Why would he stay in a party that he can never rise higher than senior minister whereas he can go be the One in NZF.

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  21. OneTrack (3,237 comments) says:

    Judith -9:07

    Hmm. Not disagreeing but are you also saying NCEA doesn’t do that? Oop. But the progressives that took over the education system said NCEA was going to solve world hunger?

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  22. peterwn (3,314 comments) says:

    Judith and others – “I believe tertiary education to a certain level should be free” You can believe what you like, Judith, but the hard facts of life are that money does not grow on trees. If the Government were to make undergraduate tertiary education free, it would need to come with the following ‘tags':
    1. Fewer places offered than now.
    2. Number of places in various disciplines set to meet the general vocational needs of the nation. This would mean a sharp cut-back in soft humanities courses and a larger emphasis on engineering, other applied sciences, IT, business studies, etc. Law could be cut back 30% without constricting the supply of practicing lawyers.
    3. Intolerance to failures. If you fail a subject, you front up the $$$ to repeat the paper.

    So overall it appears better from the prospective students’ point of view to tolerate a student loan regime than a free tertiary education regime with significant restrictions as to number of places and courses offered.

    Holly Walker was carrying on about ‘fairness’. It does seem rather unfair that ex students have been able to dodge their student loan obligations while overseas – presumably she condones this because she thinks there should not be student loans.

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  23. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ OneTrack (1,763 comments) says:
    March 8th, 2014 at 9:09 am

    I agree with you. There are some absolutely ridiculous qualifications on offer – I work with students, I’m more than aware of what is on offer – and as I said, that has to stop, if for no other reason that it devalues the entire education system.

    Of course when there is no decent entry requirement (in most areas) anyone is accepted – without any real judgement of whether they have the skills to undertake study in the first place. So many have one or two years and then quit – leaving them with a loan for something they never finished.

    We need to tighten up our entry criteria – I’ve marked papers for first year students that are virtually unreadable. Open enrollment is a joke -

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  24. Paulus (2,672 comments) says:

    I see in the Christchurch Press that Real Estate Agents are saying the flooding, which occurred since the Earthquakes, are reducing house values substantially, and the Insurance Companies will not give cover, so the banks will not grant Mortgages.

    One is spouting that something must be done – meaning that the rest of New Zealand taxpayers should stump up more money for Christchurch for these house to be lifted above flood levels.
    Taxpayer are already up for $14 billion over and above insurances to a total expected to be $40 to $50 billion.

    Surely when you live in an area called a “Basin” it must indicate a flood zone.

    Over many Mayors gone past Council knew that these houses were to be built in a flood basin – it is on all the survey maps.

    But no the Council granted permission for building getting more and more rates to feather their own nests.

    Some of us non Cantabrians are getting tired of the complaining and the expected funding. You get what you sow.

    It is Ratepayers responsibility now.

    Sorry, I know that John Key caused the Earthquakes and the flood plains to sink further. Get Real.

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  25. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    peterwn (2,847 comments) says:
    March 8th, 2014 at 9:18 am

    …If the Government were to make undergraduate tertiary education free, it would need to come with the following ‘tags’:
    1. Fewer places offered than now.
    2. Number of places in various disciplines set to meet the general vocational needs of the nation. This would mean a sharp cut-back in soft humanities courses and a larger emphasis on engineering, other applied sciences, IT, business studies, etc. Law could be cut back 30% without constricting the supply of practicing lawyers.
    3. Intolerance to failures. If you fail a subject, you front up the $$$ to repeat the paper.

    EXACTLY !!! And that is what they have to do – In doing so it would add value to the qualification and education in general. That is why I advocate for it to be free – but with ‘contracted obligations’. (Although I do disagree on some of the ‘cut back’ groups – airy fairy stuff needs to go first)

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  26. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ OneTrack (1,764 comments) says:
    March 8th, 2014 at 9:14 am

    No, NCEA in its current form does not do that. Tertiary students from my experience are less prepared for tertiary education than previous systems. Not only do they lack the skills, but they seem to be less ‘disciplined’ – ie don’t realise they need to turn up on time or even turn up at all – they believe due dates are not a target but a rough indication of when something is expected … they don’t understand that when a lecturer is talking that they really shouldn’t, and that presentation is the key to good marks and that because last weeks assignment passed does not mean you do not have bother turning in the next three weeks because you’ve proved once you can do it.

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  27. Reid (16,640 comments) says:

    the flooding, which occurred since the Earthquakes, are reducing house values substantially, and the Insurance Companies will not give cover, so the banks will not grant Mortgages.

    How come for over a century insurance companies have been quite happy to take our premiums but then when it comes to the risk which they supposedly calculated comes to pass, the premiums shoot through the roof and their willingness to insure disappears?

    You know that the first fire services in London were run by insurance companies, and if they were called to a house that didn’t have insurance with them, they’d just stand around and let it burn down?

    In this sense they remind me of the too-big-to-fail banks who lobbied the politicians to change the law to enable the CDOs which predictably caused the GFC then demand money from the politicians who turn around and give it to them while they continue paying their bonuses all the while other scandals are unearthed such as LIBOR rate fixing.

    Nothing to see here, right?

    It’s a shame most people don’t use their intelligence to analyse anything other than the Hurricane’s latest predicament and what Lorde’s getting up to on a day-by-day hour-by-hour basis. Isn’t it.

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  28. Manolo (14,086 comments) says:

    Spot on, Keeping Stock. Hammett must go. Enough of his many failures already!

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  29. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    But Hammett’s from Canterbury, they invented rugby ergo he must be a great coach – how can you guys not see this?

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  30. Harriet (5,145 comments) says:

    Peterwn#

    Judith#

    “..…If the Government were to make undergraduate tertiary education free, it would need to come with the following ‘tags’:….”

    There is no reason what soever that education has to be ‘free’.

    Every year the Australian government consults business and industry associations, and then decides what grants it is going to give to students via university departments.

    If there is a shortage of engineers in Australia, then grants are given out in the way that makes it cheaper for engineering students to take those courses, as far as I understand it, payments are made to the uni to help reduce the costs for students who take engineering.In return the student is charged less to take that degree. Industry also helps set the courses so that the student is then learning what industry is requiring. As industry operates in the market place. Every one wins; student, uni, industry, tax payer, economy.

    ‘Studies’ don’t generally get grants as their is no demand for those students in industry.

    HOWEVER –

    The unis have been dumbing down education and nursing ‘degrees’ so they can then get more and more students each year taking those courses and providing education ‘departments/cultural marxists’ with more money. The departments then expand and employ who they choose ie. ‘gender sexual studies lecturers’. Other than the obvious, the bad side to all this is that there is now an over supply of teaching and nursing graduates, most of which are also lowly qualified, and they can’t find jobs – as there isn’t any!

    And that’s all because education and health are run out of the public service – as the government runs most schools and hospitals.
    Industry[the market place] doesn’t have a say in education and health – so students lose out.

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  31. Reid (16,640 comments) says:

    Industry[the market place] doesn’t have a say in education and health – so students lose out.

    I’d say industry does have a say in health Judith but not in education. But this is because education is the factory.

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  32. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Harriet (3,771 comments) says:
    March 8th, 2014 at 10:20 am

    Harry, do you know it is the statutory role of the University to “serve as the critic and conscience of society” – with a defined pedagogic and research requirement.

    The problem I believe is that the ‘university’ is no longer defined – but rather with the requirement of documents such as ‘The Strategy’, has become that of an industry, where there have been a distinct blurring of lines between ‘technical and academic’.

    There is no reason why initial tertiary education (first three years) could not be free in NZ. It would increase our skill base and economically benefit all. Historically, school certificate (or similar) was all that was required to achieve – that is no longer the case, and as the goal posts have moved, so too much the system to keep up. If it doesn’t we will continue to widen the gaps (which in the end costs us more through welfare) and we prevent the ability for upward social mobility.

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  33. Reid (16,640 comments) says:

    Sorry Harriet, got your name wrong.

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  34. dirty harry (520 comments) says:

    Another peaceful native taking out his colonisation frustrations on honest working folk..

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9804835/Attacks-scare-prostitute-off-the-streets

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  35. Ross12 (1,456 comments) says:

    Onetrack @ 9.09 has hit on one of the key points with the student “issue”

    Kids go to university because everyone else not because it is the best option for themselves. But also as One track says the loan is just there to be picked up. Before the loan system arrived students had to say to themselves — ” Do I want to go to university?” or more importantly ” Do I need to go to achieve what I want” ( These questions should be the same now).
    Then they had to ask “What are the costs and where will I get the money from ?” The last question was the important one and it made the kid and maybe their parents stop and think.
    Today that doesn’t have to happen –just go get a loan.

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  36. All_on_Red (1,650 comments) says:

    Reid
    Regarding Christchurch flooding. Were the rivers and streams regularly cleaned out and dredged to enable excess water to flow freely? We have seen problems in Nelson and more recently in the UK when various factions have prevented this from occurring and have exacerbated the flooding.

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  37. big bruv (14,166 comments) says:

    Keeping Stock.

    “Wanted; one Head Coach. Anything considered. Please apply in writing to The Hurricanes.”

    Let me reword that slightly.

    Wanted; One head Coach, Anything considered. Please apply in writing to The Hurricanes. Cantabrians need not apply.

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  38. Yoza (1,914 comments) says:

    Scott Chris (5,631 comments) says:
    March 8th, 2014 at 8:30 am

    There is no other kind of flagellation than self inflicted flagellation. The ‘self’ part is superfluous.

    ?!

    Flagellation:

    Flagellation (Latin flagellum, “whip”), flogging, whipping or lashing is the act of methodically beating the human body with special implements such as whips, lashes, rods, switches, the cat o’ nine tails, the sjambok, etc. Typically, flogging is imposed on an unwilling subject as a punishment; however, it can also be submitted to willingly, or performed on oneself, in religious or sadomasochistic contexts.

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  39. Fletch (6,502 comments) says:

    This story is from last year, but was only reported in the NZ Catholic newspaper last week. Apparently, Pope Francis – when he was a priest in the 1970s and early 80s – rescued at least 1000 people using a secret network during Argentina’s “Dirty War”.

    Rome – Perhaps the single public figure on the planet right now least in need of rehabilitation of his image is Pope Francis, who’s got poll numbers in most places of which politicians and celebrities alike can only dream.

    Nevertheless, rehabilitation is precisely what Italian journalist Nello Scavo delivers in his new book Bergoglio’s List: The Untold Story of the People Saved by Francis during the Dictatorship, which was presented today at the headquarters of the Jesuit journal Civiltà Cattolica in Rome.

    In reply to persistent charges that the young Fr. Jorge Mario Bergoglio was complicit in Argentina’s infamous “dirty war” from 1976 to 1983, when roughly 30,000 people disappeared, Scavo asserts that Bergoglio was actually a Jesuit version of Oskar Schindler – quietly saving lives rather than engaging in noisy public protest.

    The future pope, Scavo writes, saved as many as a thousand targets of the military dictatorship by providing shelter in a Jesuit college, passing them off as seminarians or laity on retreat, then helping them move out of Argentina.

    In one case, according to Scavo, Bergoglio gave a man who bore him a passing resemblance his own passport and priest’s clothing to make his escape.

    In other cases, Scavo says, people were saved “indirectly” by Bergoglio, because the targets he helped stay out of prison would have named others who would also likely have been arrested and tortured.

    Scavo provides names and details for roughly a dozen people rescued by Bergoglio and claims that each one of those people told him they knew “at least 20 or 30 more.” Taken together with the indirect effects of his actions, Scavo says, Bergoglio was arguably responsible for saving more than the 1,200 lives attributed to Schindler’s intervention during World War II.

    One such survivor is today a mayor in Uruguay named Gonzalo Mosca, who was accompanied by Bergoglio onto the airplane that carried him to safety while being hunted by the police. Another is an Argentine lawyer and human rights activist named Alicia Oliveira, whose three small children were lodged in a Jesuit college by Bergoglio while she remained in hiding. Twice a week, she said, Bergoglio would take her to see her children, despite the fact that a warrant was out for her arrest.

    “Nobody needs to explain to me who Jorge Bergoglio is,” she told Scavo. “He helped many persecuted people escape, putting his own life at risk.”

    The rescued also include Alfredo Somoza, an atheist novelist who today lives in Milan, and Ana and Sergio Gobulin, a married couple now living in the Italian province of Pordenone. The pope has remained friends with the Gobulins, according to Scavo, speaking from time to time on the telephone.

    Scavo claims the story of Bergoglio’s pipeline has been previously untold because Bergoglio himself has never called attention to it, and in fact the pope didn’t cooperate with the book project.

    There are already plans for translations of the book in at least eight languages, including English, and there’s also been at least two proposals for a movie a-la “Schindler’s List.”

    http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/book-says-pope-saved-more-1000-dirty-war

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  40. wikiriwhis business (4,135 comments) says:

    “””Walter Lippman said already before he died that western journalism is in crisis what comes to democracy – and he died already 1974″

    ” TRUTH and NEWS aren’t the same thing …It requires wisdom to understand wisdom; the music is nothing if the audience is deaf…. The present crisis of western democracy is a CRISIS of JOURNALISM“

    ~ Walter Lippmann, Pulitzer Prized American Journalist (1889-1974)

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  41. Reid (16,640 comments) says:

    Reid: Regarding Christchurch flooding. Were the rivers and streams regularly cleaned out and dredged to enable excess water to flow freely?

    Don’t know, but it sounds like a good thing to blame on Lianne, doesn’t it.

    I look forward to Morning Report’s breathless pursuit of such and Mary Wilson’s follow-up shrieking demand to Lianne that she “guarantee nothing like this will ever happen again.”

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  42. wikiriwhis business (4,135 comments) says:

    “Modern industrial civilization has developed within a certain system of convenient myths. The driving force of modern industrial civilization has been individual material gain, which is accepted as legitimate, even praiseworthy, on the grounds that private vices yield public benefits, in the classic formulation. Now, it has long been understood, very well, that a society that is based on this principle will destroy itself in time. It can only persist, with whatever suffering and injustice that it entails, as long as it is possible to pretend that the destructive forces that humans create are limited, that the world is an infinite resource, and that the world is an infinite garbage can. At this stage of history either one of two things is possible. Either the general population will take control of its own destiny and will concern itself with community interests, guided by values of solidarity, sympathy and concern for others, or alternatively there will be no destiny for anyone to control. As long as some specialized class is in a position of authority, it is going to set policy in the special interests that it serves. But the conditions of survival, let alone justice, require rational social planning in the interests of the community as a whole, and by now that means the global community. The question is whether privileged elite should dominate mass communication and should use this power as they tell us they must — namely to impose necessary illusions, to manipulate and deceive the stupid majority and remove them from the public arena. The question in brief, is whether democracy and freedom are values to be preserved or threats to be avoided. In this possibly terminal phase of human existence, democracy and freedom are more than values to be treasured; they may well be essential to survival. “

    ~ World leading intellectual, Professor Emeritus Noam Chomsky in documentary “Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media (1992)”

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  43. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    KS
    Surprising the number of commentators calling for Blackadders head because they have had a poor start to the season and are happy to accept the mediocre coaching peformances of Hammett and Jamie Joseph and the onfield performances of their sides.

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  44. Akaroa (591 comments) says:

    Re: Yoza at 1044

    Thanks for that confirmation, Yoza, that my initial use of the term ‘self-flaggelation’ was correct.

    (I couldn’t be bothered to argue with Scott Chris at 8.30 myself when he challenged my terminology)

    Cheers

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  45. iMP (2,422 comments) says:

    OMGosh, the 0.00% party (ACT)’s leader Jamie Whyte is fronting the AGM. Gee, that’s amazing lead news in the Herald.

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  46. wat dabney (3,814 comments) says:

    Noam Chomsky

    So, complete bollocks then.

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  47. freemark (619 comments) says:

    Power Prices are Increasing..Shock Horror! Thousands will freeze to death, or starve to death, it’s all the Evil Nact’s Fault, especially the Devil Incarnate John Key.
    In reality, I just got my notification, and my rise is going to be (estimated) 0.7%, or $9.71 per year. I had better sell the kids. :)

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  48. wat dabney (3,814 comments) says:

    “Chomsky was wrong about Chavez”

    http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/analysis/Chomsky-was-wrong-about-Chavez-244026121.html

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  49. Rowan (2,542 comments) says:

    “I believe tertiary education to a certain level should be free – government funded providing the student graduates and works a minimum of three years in this country – a sort of contract to keep skills here at least to return some of what is gained. I also believe that anyone that receives support via student allowance to assist with their living whilst studying should be on similar contract. They take from the country, they must give back.”

    Judith
    A good idea in principal but how many graduates do you see leaving the country because they have invested big $ to gain their qualification and haven’t been able to land a job here in their field of study so have moved overseas, your contract would need to guarantee them the 3 years work here as well which is tough in this market.

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  50. Manolo (14,086 comments) says:

    A warning for a future, older dime: http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8811144/italian-man-discovers-escort-is-sons-girlfriend.

    A 70-year-old from the Italian city of Treviso who hired an escort from the neighbouring city of Vicenza got the shock of his life when the woman who arrived turned out to be his 40-year-old son’s girlfriend.

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  51. stigie (1,348 comments) says:

    Enjoyed the Nation this morning…but that man Pedro, when is he going to stop butting in.

    Shit there has to be people around better than him and prettier !~

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  52. RichardX (329 comments) says:

    Reid (15,078 comments) says:
    March 7th, 2014 at 8:28 pm
    … the pending nuclear detonation in Chicago, …

    Care to elaborate on this ”pending nuclear detonation in Chicago”?
    It sounds like a falsifiable claim to me

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  53. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    This is a real win,win for Bryce Bruce and the quest for fairness and Justice for the deceased.Daryl Yoing has failed in his defamation claim against him and his famous documentary ,The case against Robin Bain.
    The Court of Appeal have apparently ruled that Bryce Bruce’s statement that Darly Young’s evidence about the photocopier sale appeared to be inconsistent with those of other witnesses, cannot be said to be dematory.
    Court costs were awarded against Young.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz:80/national/crime/9799448/Part-of-Bain-defamation-case-struck-out

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  54. MT_Tinman (3,263 comments) says:

    Paulus (2,231 comments) says:
    March 8th, 2014 at 9:22 am

    Some of us non Cantabrians are getting tired of the complaining and the expected funding. You get what you sow.

    Paulus, many of us Cantabrians are also getting tired of one group demanding the taxpayer sort out the problems they elected the communist soak to sort out.

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  55. MT_Tinman (3,263 comments) says:

    big bruv (12,171 comments) says:
    March 8th, 2014 at 10:41 am

    Wanted; One head Coach, Anything considered. Please apply in writing to The Hurricanes. Cantabrians need not apply.

    Tell the truth Big Bruv, you can’t wait for us to give you Todd to take over the “Zephyrs”.

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  56. MT_Tinman (3,263 comments) says:

    Big bruv, maybe we could get Reuben to go up there as assistant coach to Todd. ;-)

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  57. wikiriwhis business (4,135 comments) says:

    what is even funnier is that her government says it is ok to spy on people (she even uses this to justify giving out people private info) because “if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about” yet she “won’t release communication records from her office.” so that proves she has something to hide.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11215496
    Paula Bennett denies passing info to bloggers – National – NZ

    I’m sure this was never getting on Kiwiblog

    Oh yes it flippin well was !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  58. wikiriwhis business (4,135 comments) says:

    Professor Emeritus Noam Chomsky

    And who is Wat Dabney….never heard of wat myself

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  59. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Judith: You have the fiscal understanding of real left-wing Labourite. Free this, free that; Government pays for this, pays for that . . . get your zimmer frame on the ground, it is taxpayers who do the paying, no one else!

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  60. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    Professor Emirtus Noam Chomsky has made a number of false claims .But one is his prediction that the US would create mass starvation in Afghanistan.The country would be reduced to catastrophic famine.

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  61. dime (10,137 comments) says:

    “big bruv, maybe we could get Reuben to go up there as assistant coach to Todd. ;-)”

    oh god, how long til that chump is an assistant at the crusaders? or is he already?

    caleb ralph – backs coach!

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  62. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ igm (623 comments) says:
    March 8th, 2014 at 12:35 pm

    That maybe so, but only a fool thinks that and uneducated and unskilled younger generation is good for this country.

    It is about investing for the future – and that never comes without a cost. Upskilling the population has been proven to reduce negative social statistics such as crime and welfare dependence – but I suppose you advocate money spent on crime, prison and welfare is worthwhile, but for what and whom?

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  63. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Rowan (1,637 comments) says:
    March 8th, 2014 at 11:45 am

    Yes it is tough in this market, however, there would need to be efforts made to increase work chances for qualified but inexperienced people.

    A qualification alone, does not make anyone fully competent in my opinion, they need to couple that with practical experience. There were in the past, (I’m not sure if they still exist) quite a few qualifications where financial support was given for study with a requirement that the student worked for the organisation for X amount of time. I know the Justice Dept and Health used to run such schemes, but that was a while ago – don’t know if they still do.

    Of course it would take a massive reshuffle of ‘the system’ – but it sure as hell isn’t working now.

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  64. grumpyoldhori (2,362 comments) says:

    Judith, you seem to believe that only those who sit inside of walls covered with ivy should be funded by the taxpayer.
    I cannot see why trades should also be funded, or are you trying to say someone doing a arts degree in old Icelandic macrame is brighter and deserves funding more than say an electrical apprentice.

    Who should go to university, in my view only those doing original research should be at university.
    The others can all go through Polys.

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  65. cha (4,087 comments) says:

    Oh dear, bloke who outed a porn star outed.

    Dear Mr. Bagley,

    First off, I would like to thank you for being such a fan of our business. For someone who subscribes to a site like Facial Abuse I want to commend you for spending the $200 a week your parents send you every week for living expenses wisely. Facial Abuse is a great site! There is nothing like watching a new girl getting a huge cock viciously rammed down her throat. I like your taste!

    I want to also commend you on getting accepted into Duke. Great school! I am sure your parents are proud. I bet you pull straight A’s when you’re not whacking it to Facial Abuse and Casting Couch movies. I love our fans and I love you! You are the type of guy that makes our business move.

    With that I would like to make you an offer. As I sit here in my office at 6:30 on a Wednesday night I am writing a check for $10,000 to pay to the order of Thomas Bagley. I want to give you the opportunity to live out all your fantasies. In addition to that 10K, there is a plane ticket and hotel room with your name on it out here in sunny Los Angeles. Screw the polar vortex. Get your ass out and come shoot for us! I will give you the opportunity to bang ANY porn star you want. We will make you a celebrity because it is apparent how much you love porn and attention.

    10 Grand is a lot of money for a kid like you. Do you know how many porn memberships you could buy with that? That is more than a lifetime membership to Facial Abuse!

    I ask that you seriously consider our offer. Any girl you want! Come out to LA and become a star. ALSO, for every inch you are packing over 4, I will throw in an EXTRA $1,000. Get your tiny pecker out here and become the next Ron Jeremy kiddo!

    All my best,

    http://cltampa.com/bedpost/archives/2014/03/06/bully-who-outed-duke-porn-star-has-his-porn-preferences-publicized#.UxpkJM7lbAI

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  66. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    The left-wing Labour-supporting Manawatu Standard states political affiliations of staff should not necessarily be made to TVNZ management. That is great coming from these lefties, their editor being an executive member of NZLP. Sooner these irresponsible a/holes are tossed out of media positions of influence the better for all.

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  67. wikiriwhis business (4,135 comments) says:

    “All the territorial possessions of all the political establishments in the earth consist of pilfering from other people’s wash. No tribe, howsoever insignificant, and no nation, howsoever mighty occupies a foot of land that was not stolen.” – Mark Twain

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  68. Johnboy (17,092 comments) says:

    “Who should go to university, in my view only those doing original research should be at university.
    The others can all go through Polys.”

    You’re onto it there goh.

    If everyone had gone through a Poly or had a Poly go through them NZ would be much less racist! :)

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  69. wat dabney (3,814 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis,

    Here you are mate. Learn something about the evil twat you quote so approvingly.

    “Noam Chomsky: The Last Totalitarian”

    http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/michael-j-totten/noam-chomsky-last-totalitarian

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  70. Yoza (1,914 comments) says:

    wat dabney (3,337 comments) says:
    March 8th, 2014 at 3:41 pm
    wikiriwhis,

    Here you are mate. Learn something about the evil twat you quote so approvingly.

    “Noam Chomsky: The Last Totalitarian”

    It is a tribute to your stupidity, Wat, that you can offer an essay with such a title when the subject of that essay has never held a position of authority other than that afforded him by his multitude of global admirers. Chomsky deals in ideas, not establishment dogma, which is why he is such a threat to lick-spittles such as yourself.

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  71. Yoza (1,914 comments) says:

    Heh, ‘Michael J. Totten’. Who?

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  72. wat dabney (3,814 comments) says:

    Yoza,

    I rather fancy that the title is a reference to his tireless apologetics for evil totalitarian regimes such as the Khmer Rouge, rather than a claim that he ever held such a position himself.

    Don’t you?

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  73. Yoza (1,914 comments) says:

    wat dabney (3,338 comments) says:
    March 8th, 2014 at 4:13 pm

    Yoza,

    I rather fancy that the title is a reference to his tireless apologetics for evil totalitarian regimes such as the Khmer Rouge, rather than a claim that he ever held such a position himself.

    Don’t you?

    Do you mean the Khmer Rouge that was supplied with military and logistical support by the UK government under the Thatcher regime once the Vietnamese had kicked them out of Cambodia? The Khmer Rouge who were propelled to power as a direct consequence of the carpet bombing of vast swathes of Cambodia by the US Airforce? The Khmer Rouge whom Pol Pot described as numbering less than 5000 poorly armed guerrillas spread across the country before the bombing got really serious?
    How did Chomsky apologise for the Cambodian victims of the terror unleashed on them by the US Airforce?

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  74. wat dabney (3,814 comments) says:

    Yoza,

    Your childish argument that other people did bad things too is, well, childish.

    The undeniable point is that Chomsky supported very evil regimes.

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  75. Yoza (1,914 comments) says:

    Your childish argument that other people did bad things too is, well, childish.

    The undeniable point is that Chomsky supported very evil regimes.

    The US bombing of Cambodia wasn’t ‘a bad thing too’ it was the event of which led directly to the rise of the Khmer Rouge, without the massive bombing campaign there would not have been the ‘Killing Fields’. Minimising the horror of the US bombing is quite pathetic, even for you.

    Which ‘evil regimes’ does Chomsky support and could you provide a link which backs up your nonsense?

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  76. cha (4,087 comments) says:

    How to save America.

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  77. wat dabney (3,814 comments) says:

    Yoza,

    Chomsky’s sickening betrayal of the Cambodian people is particularly well known. For example:

    http://natethayer.typepad.com/blog/2011/11/khmer-rouge-apologist-noam-chomsky-unrepentant-.html

    or

    http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/archives/000155.html

    His lies and excuses on behalf of Pol Pot are inexcusable.

    Yet here you are attempting to do just that.

    How did you get to be so evil?

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  78. cha (4,087 comments) says:

    A gay beaver is eating Ronnie Raygun’s stool.

    https://twitter.com/moody/statuses/442052077322137600

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  79. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Has Lecher Len gone yet, taking the obese criminal German with him? Don’t let either off the hook, they are slime.

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  80. DJP6-25 (1,389 comments) says:

    wat dabney 11.42 am Chomsky was wrong about insert name/subject here.

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  81. mandk (1,020 comments) says:

    Over at The Standard they are arguing for higher levels of failure in Higher Education: “Minimum pass rates at Universities are silly”.

    The morons do not seem to recognise that the push for higher course and qualification rates has been intended to ensure that Maori and Pasifika students, in particular, are enrolled into courses that are appropriate to their abilities and are supported throughout their studies so that they can reach the required standards.

    The old “get them in the door and who cares if they don’t finish or pass” approach was a dreadful betrayal of young people, especially those from lower socio-economic groups.

    And they say socialism is about helping the poor and down-trodden! Like fuck it is.

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  82. cricko (382 comments) says:

    This hysterical overreaction to “clan labs” reaches a ridiculous level.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/9801364/P-lab-explosion-risk-say-police

    The whole apartment block was evacuated. WTF
    Police who enterred the suspect apartment were decontaminated as if they had risked
    nuclear contamination.

    Surely the only real risk of explosion is during the actual stage of manufacture when an open flame
    is involved.

    Seriously, is there any genuine risk of entering a premise where meth WAS manufactured as
    opposed to where it IS being manufactured ?

    (When we read the horror reports of children living in premises where meth is being manufactured
    what are the true risks to them, as opposed to the hysterical ones, any readers know?)

    Common sense seems to have gone out the window here.

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  83. cha (4,087 comments) says:

    Seems the morons can and do make this shit up.

    http://www.politicususa.com/2014/03/07/fake-arrests-ohio-ministers-designed-sell-christian-persecution-myth.html

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1761005/plotsummary?ref_=tt_ov_pl

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  84. cricko (382 comments) says:

    Care to bring yourself up to speed (pardon the pun) regarding meth labs, as opposed to
    the hysterical stuff.

    http://www.publichealthreports.org/issueopen.cfm?articleID=2652

    Meth is a terrible drug, one of the worst, but there is a hysterical overreaction to the risks
    to the public from clan labs here.

    The true risks are to the morons who use the stuff.

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  85. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    criko

    I’ve been in clan labs and you dont want to be in them without the full gear, a whole apartment block may be over the top but the fumes are corrosive as buggery, its your eyes that really suffer

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  86. big bruv (14,166 comments) says:

    Keith Locke was also a supporter of Pol Pot. I think this was something that our very own David Garrett (or it might have been Rodney) never missed a chance to mention in the house.

    Of course this would set the Greens right off, jumping to their smelly feet demanding an apology and desperately trying to rewrite history.

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  87. cricko (382 comments) says:

    Pauleatbay

    Good call, you agree that the reaction in NZ is over the top.
    Irritation to the eyes is the worst symptom. (see page 120 of the report I posted)

    Any opinion on why the dangers are exagerated to buggery here ?

    for eg. the whole decomaninattion drama as if they had walked through Chernoble nuclear reactor whats that all about ?
    Over the top would be an understatement.

    Why is that ?

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  88. Nookin (3,473 comments) says:

    Sadly, it seems that the Crusaders have lost it. No attacking flair, no leadership in the backs and, seemingly, they have lost the will to win. They are going to have to start all over as they did in the first years of super rugby. Why they ever let Fruean go I have no idea. They have no-one who can rip apart the opposing backline. Unless something changes very, very soon, it is going to be a long and painful season.

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  89. Nostalgia-NZ (5,283 comments) says:

    Taylor’s tackle in the dying minutes was leadership Nookin.

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  90. Nookin (3,473 comments) says:

    Happened after my post, Nos. Ball boy must have read the comment to him. It was a relief to hear the final whistle. Fingers crossed that they have learned how to win again.

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  91. All_on_Red (1,650 comments) says:

    You gotta laugh. Comrade Yoza’s argument revolves around the Classic appeal to authority based purely on name recognition for Chomsky. Morons both.

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  92. Nostalgia-NZ (5,283 comments) says:

    The anxiety and pleasure of Super rugby returns Nookin, as does an early watch on how the ABs will go against all comers this year.

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  93. Yoza (1,914 comments) says:

    All_on_Red (844 comments) says:
    March 8th, 2014 at 10:26 pm

    You gotta laugh. Comrade Yoza’s argument revolves around the Classic appeal to authority based purely on name recognition for Chomsky.

    That doesn’t make any sense – still, nothing new there – the only link I have provided was to the research based on data provided by the US Air Force about the tonnage of ordnance dropped on Cambodia upto 1973: …2,756,941 tons’ worth, dropped in 230,516 sorties on 113,716 sites.” To put that into perspective, the allies dropped 2 million tons of ordnance on the Japanese mailand and Europe during WWII – which includes both atomic bombs. The US has never been officially at war with Cambodia.

    The article to which I have linked has nothing to do with Professor Chomsky. Chomsky’s greatest criticism of the reporting of the Khmer Rouge atrocities appears in Manufacturing Consent where, with Edward S. Herman, they compare the amount of coverage an official enemy gets when they commit mass murder to the amount of coverage ‘friendly’ mass murderers -in this instance the Indonesian slaughter carried out in East Timor – receive in the mainstream media. The other point Chomsky makes is that Western interest in Cambodia only begins with the 1975 assent to power of the Khmer Rouge, the massive US bombing campaign slips quietly down the memory hole.

    The US establishment’s hatred of Noam Chomsky is paralleled by the deep respect in which he is held by the multitudes throughout the world who do not believe in the historical record as it is defined by Washington apparatchiks.

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  94. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Cambodia, East Timor, Kokoda, the War in the Pacific

    Look up the Australian Sparrow force in East Timor and their Campaign against Japan

    <
    It is all going to happen again people give it time – but do take note of the sheer brutality of it all

    Special PLaces Asian and the South Pacific and Australasia when it comes to this type of thing

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  95. Fletch (6,502 comments) says:

    and the Origami Condom, which folds out like an accordion when pushed into the vagina.

    Now, all men need is a penis that unfolds and folds back up.

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  96. All_on_Red (1,650 comments) says:

    Yoza
    My comment was made in the context of your smear against Wat Dabney being unknown but Chomsky was, as if this made Chomsky’s opinion more valid but then again comprehension is not your strong suit.

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  97. Ryan Sproull (7,288 comments) says:

    Heh, ‘Michael J. Totten’. Who?

    Totten is not the guy calling Chomsky “The Last Authoritarian”. Totten is the guy interviewing Benjamin Kerstein, an Israeli journalist who was promoting his book Diary of an Anti-Chomskyite – a collation of his blog posts.

    There does seem to be rather a lot of the interviewer verbally fellating Kerstein, though. Every question in the interview seems to boil down to either, “You’re awesome – discuss,” and “Would you say that Chomsky is terrible? Or merely awful.”

    Not that I wouldn’t try to line up those sorts of interviews if I published a book.

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  98. Pete George (23,688 comments) says:

    Football is 90 minutes of pretending you’re hurt, rugby is 80 minutes of pretending you’re not.

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